Lord_Reed:

I dislike people attributing silly motives to me without a shred of evidence. Where in any of my posts have I ever rejoiced that the pupil was flogged? How is my original post a lament? How is that a question and probing of your religion is construed as an attack or intolerance? If a mosque is built in RSU is Saudi suddenly going to allow Christians to build churches there?

Please mind your passion. I have muslim friends, colleagues and associates, we treat ourselves with mutual respect and regard so do not presume to insult me because we are on a faceless forum.

Lord_Reed:

Please provide a link where I can read up on Plateau State declaring itself a christian state.

The governor who was represented by his Special Adviser on Religious Affairs, Rev. Choji Gyang said: “We keep asking ourselves why Plateau State is in crises. Why they are against Plateau is because we call ourselves Plateau the Christian state. And Islam is a very strong religion in the northern part of the country. So for Plateau to come out to say it is a Christian state it is against the wishes of those who don’t want any other religion outside Islam in northern Nigeria.

BetaThings:

http://thenationonlineng.net/new/norths-leaders-behind-plateau-crises-says-jang/

BetaThings:

Even if you sponsor 1 million muslims to hajj, it does not matter
So why justify an unconstitutional act on the basis of a rule made by a principal
Whether it is your express intention on not, if you justify what is happeing in Nigeria
You will rationalise it if someday (fi Audhu Bi Llahi) it happens in Saudi
The day you open a thread to condemn someone being flogged in Nigeria (a secular state) then we can see this particular thread as a product of sincerity

Lord_Reed:

C'mon man opinion and state policy are two different things. Plateau state is in no way officially a Christian state so your point on that is mooted.

Lord_Reed:

That rule was not made by the principal only so enforced. My point on the issue is why make it a subject of religious intolerance if it was a clear case of rule breaking?

Lord_Reed:
Several cases I know of teachers cutting students hair and even clothes because they do not conform to school rules does one make a case for freedom of expression which is also guaranteed by the constitution? IN another case I know of in a secondary school a student brought a BlackBerry Porsche to school in which such materials are outlawed, a teacher seized it and had it destroyed will there be a case for destruction of property? Point is you do not flaunt laid down rules and expect no one to take action. What I do condemn is savage beating as punishment should fit the infraction.

BetaThings:



Nobody has been able to show me who said specifically and with proof the person who said "we will make this country ungovernable should Jonathan win in 2011". But people repeat it daily



But a Special Adviser on Religious Affairs to a GOVERNOR who represented the governor speaks on behalf of his boss and he is a common man!

Now let us refute your attempt at trivialising this issue

1. The man is not a common man - He is a Reverend

2. The reverend is not speaking about building a vehicle for harvesting plankton from the Pacific. He is talking about Religion. His area of expertise

3. He did not make this statement at a family dinner in his village. He made while on official assignment

4. He did not make the speech on his own accord. He was representing the Governor, meaning that that is what the governors himself would have said had he come in person. When a man represents his boss, he uses his own mouth to convey the thoughts and position of his boss (Gov). He does not give his own opinion

5. Public speeches are used to announce or re-iterate some state policy. Otherwise an interviews granted by Okonjo Iweala would be ignored as the opinion of a "common man". The NASS typically responds and and invites her if necessary to clarify her statement

6. The matter at hand is not one to be joked with because it is sensitive. A governor explaining a phenomenon the way it is done in that report is saying

(a) we have declared ourselves a Christian state

(b) That declaration is well known to people. Otherwise you cannot accuse me of responding to what is in your mind

(c) we are re-iterating our stand that we are a Christian state



If a special adviser to Johnathan represents Johnathan at a public event says the US is a hostile state, No one, I repeat nobody in the state department will respond the way you have done on this matter



You are free to raise issues but responding this way is novel and undermines your objectivity

BetaThings:

This is a problem I have with your posts
Who is being intolerant here? Is it the person who is trying to obey the law of Allah or the one trying to force a student to disobey her God?
How is what I am wearing on my body which does not hurt anyone amount to intolerance?
Now you conveniently kept quest about preaching in the bus. Is it required by divine law?
Do you agree that it disturbs others?

If Sunday became a work day we will see how Christians' "tolerance" and love for secularism will hold out



None of the example mentioned relates to a matter sanctioned by divine law
Blackberry, wearing long hair, sagging etc are matters of fashion. They come and go. So rigity on such is about ego
The hijab is not a fashion issue that just emerged.
Let me repeat, Allah requires muslim women to cover themselves. It is a divine order
Tell me an alternative way of obeying Allah while conforming with this schoool rule which affects only Christians
Tell me one divine law that Christians students are forced to disobey

I could borrow from my friend without paying interest. This is an inconvenient alternative to not having an Islamic Bank
But tell me how to get round the hijab thing without disobeying Allah

BetaThings:

This is a problem I have with your posts
Who is being intolerant here? Is it the person who is trying to obey the law of Allah or the one trying to force a student to disobey her God?
How is what I am wearing on my body which does not hurt anyone amount to intolerance?
Now you conveniently kept quest about preaching in the bus. Is it required by divine law?
Do you agree that it disturbs others?

If Sunday became a work day we will see how Christians' "tolerance" and love for secularism will hold out



None of the example mentioned relates to a matter sanctioned by divine law
Blackberry, wearing long hair, sagging etc are matters of fashion. They come and go. So rigity on such is about ego
The hijab is not a fashion issue that just emerged.
Let me repeat, Allah requires muslim women to cover themselves. It is a divine order
Tell me an alternative way of obeying Allah while conforming with this schoool rule which affects only Christians
Tell me one divine law that Christians students are forced to disobey

I could borrow from my friend without paying interest. This is an inconvenient alternative to not having an Islamic Bank
But tell me how to get round the hijab thing without disobeying Allah

Lord_Reed: Also state funds being used for Muslim themed decoration. Any complaints?

Lord_Reed: BTW is Jaiz Bank not an Islamic bank?

Lord_Reed:

Sorry c'mon is abbrev. for come on so I wasn't referring to the adviser I was referring to you.

Lord_Reed:
Now you are asserting Plateau has been declared a christian state,

Lord_Reed:
did the state assembly ratify it? Is there an official gazette? The governor declaring it so does not make it so there are processes. Declaring sharia also required processes so how are you now staunchly declaring Plateau a christian state?

Lord_Reed:
Whose objectivity is in question if you can not show OFFICIAL PROOF/DOCUMENT?

Lord_Reed:
This is not trivialising it, if you can not show me no-denying-it proof then you are the one guilty of conjecture.

Lord_Reed: @betathings

I have the measure of the answer I needed in starting this thread, I won't descend into absurdity with you.

Lord_Reed: @betathings

Calling your last response absurd is not an insult but the truth.

Lord_Reed:
Patience Jonathan's mother? What has that got to do with what we are discussing?

Lord_Reed:
Similarly your responses to the Jaiz Bank question I asked and the picture I posted are so far off it begs the question.

Lord_Reed:
I came to inquire about Saudi I have gotten my answer.

vedaxcool: DEBUNKED AND DEMYSTIFIED
Betathins
WELLLLLLLLDONEEEEE

BetaThings:
The thread also enabled me to confirm/demonstrate the insincerity of people who hold themselves out as tolerant and objective, no matter how courtly their approach might be
Thanks for the opportunity!

vedaxcool: ^
Rather than resort to insults when r going to produce any official document backing all the claims you so far mad? U clearly brought this u standards to nl so live up to you reputation unless u were simply being dishonest or refusing to acknowledge the truth this behavior does speak well of u. Betathings gave u the answer u deserve.

EDIT: Brief History of Shari'ah - Part 111: Full implementation of Shariah in zamfara - Excerpt

Nonetheless, the Governor went ahead and on 8th day of October, 1999 he assented to the Bill passed by the State House of Assembly and signed a Law to establish Shari’ah Courts in Zamfara State. Due to the necessary actions to be undertaken for flawless proceedings the Law was to come into operation on 27th January 2000 (appendix I).

Source: http://zamfaraonline.net/go/zamfara/shariah-in-zamfara/89-brief-history-of-shariah?showall=&start=2

vedaxcool: All this long epistle simply because u cannot live up to a sstandard u brought up, at the end u want to be judge, jury and executioner in your world. What BT did was to expose who u really r, deols said that much. Accusing him of belligerence is simply being a bad sport

Lord_Reed:
The issue of documents only came up because BetaThings claims that Plateau State has declared itself a Christian state, the only supporting evidence is a paragraph in an online newspaper. I googled it before I even asked him of a link; Google returned no relevant results so how are we to substantiate this claim of a Christian state when there are no popular references to draw from?

Lord_Reed:
Besides this you and BetaThings would be mischievous if you claim you don't know that such declarations must be ratified by the state assembly before it can be official so where is the ratification by the state assembly? This is the simple documentation I was referring to.

Lord_Reed:
I would be foolish to require anyone to bring hard copy proofs to an online forum, independently verifiable sources are what we rely on, BetaThings could not show proof beyond an out of way newspaper article that does not show up on the first page of results when you google the subject matter.

Lord_Reed:
I was not belligerent to BetaThings or anyone on this thread so I believe this discussion should have maintained the civil tone it started with.

Lord_Reed:

You demonstrated no such thing as your answers only sort to escalate ill feelings and deviate from the topic at hand. Most of the other responders stuck to topic, only you chose to escalate it to an us vs them issue.

Lord_Reed:
You would do well to treat requests for information or reasonable discussions with the cordiality they deserve rather than the paranoid lampoonings you displayed here.

logicboy:
Lordreed!

I was browsing through this old thread and I can see that you really tried. You were a legend!

Moving on, reading the old posts of some muslims here made me laugh. Their dishonesty in defending Saudi Arabia's intolerance to christians is laughable!

Imagine not allowing churches in a country and claiming freedom of religion