bukatyne:
.

hehehehe.. Bukatyne the 'man pleaser' Don't forget these are times when we are told there is no right or wrong but you are FREE to do whatever you like. We only want to hear pleasing things, but not the truth.

bukatyne:


Ariz a, you are too logical for this emotional driven post.
1. Where did I state abortions are good? You asked for the difference and I stated it. Every Christian knows that abortion is a sin. No questions asked.

2. Men's sexual irresponsibility has increased with women's sexual liberation. Women's sexual liberation increased when the fear of pregnancy was addressed by contraceptives. Afterall, pregnancy and attendant risks is majorly the increased risk. If all women were supposed to be chaste, which women would the men sleep with? Very few societies were/are so hedonistic to have their men import prostitutes like Saudi Arabia or going to meet them at Dubai. So the men stayed put. I remember the pastor that counselled us said men in his time were given crash courses on sex and KJ jelly a day to the wedding because both partners were novices. Besides, if a man knew sex = pregnancy = shotgun marriage, he would control himself.

3. You got that from my post? Interesting.

Lol Bukatyne, the person I directed those questions to made a wise decision by not answering them you know why? Because no answer will ever be right without any sensible person having to contradict himself or herself. They are questions that brings out the imbalance in a submission or reasoning. You fell for it by answering it and you can see the outcome yourself. Abortion is bad no matter who is engaged in it. It is a Sin for everyone. Medically it put every lady's life at risk, Married life or not.

2) It "increased" Yea... That's the word lol. But don't you think it would have been better if it never existed? Or it there had been a balance in sexual morality among all genders would it have been so bad as it is now? I believe if every hands were placed on deck to curb sexual immortality right from the beginning there won't even be any sex getting liberation or whatever. Lol . Same thing I've been trying to say since.We as a society have never based our norms on right basis that's why everything is changing so fact. Imagine contraceptive liberating women because the reason for Chasity was for the fear of pregnancy. Just look at that! We don't have good foundations, things we really stand for that's why we (society) are easily swayed. When only women were chaste, they were raped, manipulated and bought and introduced to prostitution which started from requesting for sex before doing favours. C'mmon we can't act blind to these things because we only want to hold a gender responsible.

We will not get anywhere with this. I will just advise women and sensible men to train their children both male and female better.

bukatyne:


See my brother, any reasonable woman knows that in the game of sexuality, men have a slight edge.

I remember one thread years back where they asked who could marry a virgin man and only myself and a few others agreed to.

It used to vex me before when I saw a virgin or someone with few body counts married to a used up man till I realized these red pillers have most of these women nailed to a T.

Or a brolosho (according to NL) yapping that he wants a virgin after 1000+ body counts and make no mistake, he will get her if he is serious.

Most women don't place importance on a guy's sexual past, most men do for women that's why the women keep reducing body counts and lying about virginity and sexual experience. The two men I know married as virgins specifically prayed for virgins. According to one, after keeping himself, he will now marry a used up woman? You needed to see the disgust on his face.

Everybody must know their leverage, disadvantages and play this game of life to favour them.

The Bible has done that, they said it is old school so they should look for new school to play the game to really favour them.

You're 100% correct sis. I have always wondered why women frown at virgin men. Somehow, a lot of women love broloshos

Personally, I place a lot of importance on a woman's past so any woman that refuses to show concern about mine is only putting herself at a disadvantage. This could also be the reason married men cheat in marriage. In fact, a lot women expect us to know all the bedmatics before dating them. They're never ready and willing to learn or grow with a man. Always looking for "food wey don done" -- money-bag, sex or porn guru, etc.


So men go all the way to sleep with anything that cross their path for the sake of 'experience'. At the end of the day, it becomes very difficult to settle with one woman. Old habits die hard they say.

armyofone:
Shocked me too! Would have been better to hear he is with the same person today.

Wishing that "ex" well wherever she is.
mehn!!

Lol. One guy is probably showing her love somewhere. I hope the girl ends up with another brolosho too

Acidosis:


You're 100% correct sis. I have always wondered why women frown at virgin men. Somehow, a lot of women love broloshos

It's all down to preselection. Women love those men other women want. Logic: if all the women want him, then he must be high value. That's why the play boys keep getting more women while the incel remains an incel.

Ariza:
Lol Bukatyne, the person I directed those questions to made a wise decision by not answering them you know why? Because no answer will ever be right without any sensible person having to contradict himself or herself. They are questions that brings out the imbalance in a submission or reasoning. You fell for it by answering it and you can see the outcome yourself. Abortion is bad no matter who is engaged in it. It is a Sin for everyone. Medically it put every lady's life at risk, Married life or not.

2) It "increased" Yea... That's the word lol. But don't you think it would have been better if it never existed? Or it there had been a balance in sexual morality among all genders would it have been so bad as it is now? I believe if every hands were placed on deck to curb sexual immortality right from the beginning there won't even be any sex getting liberation or whatever. Lol . Same thing I've been trying to say since.We as a society have never based our norms on right basis that's why everything is changing so fact. Imagine contraceptive liberating women because the reason for Chasity was for the fear of pregnancy. Just look at that! We don't have good foundations, things we really stand for that's why we (society) are easily swayed. When only women were chaste, they were raped, manipulated and bought and introduced to prostitution which started from requesting for sex before doing favours. C'mmon we can't act blind to these things because we only want to hold a gender responsible.

We will not get anywhere with this. I will just advise women and sensible men to train their children both male and female better.

Miss, was there anywhere I said abortion is ok for married women or is defining a thing = encouraging/condoning it?

Tasking the gender at the risk of pregnancy is not the same as holding a gender responsible for extra-marital sex. You are preaching to the choir as regards telling men and women to be chaste; I am notorious for that here.

Modern women do not want sexually responsible men (they have always been the left overs); they want the right to be 'sexually liberated' without name calling.

I gave you a social experiment; do it and tell me the percentage of women who want virgin men or men as sexually chaste as possible.

liberalchick:


How will it change when people are stick in the mud? When we retain the status quo nothing changes.

Culture is the collective thinking, norms of its people. What changes a thinking and creating a new normal? Upbringing.

You ensure the society remains harsh for your daughter by repeating the same mistakes our forebears did.

It isn’t rigid it can be dynamic towards a positive trend.

You’re making the argument of people who say Nigerian Mothers are responsible for the misogyny in the Nigerian culture.

To what extent can society hold a man responsible for a unwanted pregnancy-love child? Aside child support.

Acidosis:


You're 100% correct sis. I have always wondered why women frown at virgin men. Somehow, a lot of women love broloshos

Personally, I place a lot of importance on a woman's past so any woman that refuses to show concern about mine is only putting herself at a disadvantage. This could also be the reason married men cheat in marriage. In fact, a lot women expect us to know all the bedmatics before dating them. They're never ready and willing to learn or grow with a man. Always looking for "food wey don done" -- money-bag, sex or porn guru, etc.


So men go all the way to sleep with anything that cross their path for the sake of 'experience'. At the end of the day, it becomes very difficult to settle with one woman. Old habits die hard they say.

I am very interested in the polarity between men and women and read up local and foreign materials, observe, listen to gist, see people's conduct etc.

Modern women don't want a sexually responsible man; they want to be oloshos however, do not be called oloshos

Unfortunately, men have not evolved to desire oloshos. Oh yes, oloshos marry however MOST of them dim their past. Plenty threads abound here to advice women not to disclose body count etc.

I remember a vlog I was watching when they guy was bursting the new body count for foreign women: Divide the answer by four. This is the US the land of the free and liberated, yet the girl (and she is not alone) feels obligated to lie about her body count.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0im9f71qfw look at 7:03

Instead of them to insist the men buckle up and be sexually responsible and/chaste (which means the women also don't get to sleep about aka exercise their sexual liberation), it is to complain how the world is unfair and labeling women with a colourful sexual past.

This thread gives me great joy, with the interesting points and counter points, keep it coming.....

Omoluabi16:
hehehehe.. Bukatyne the 'man pleaser' Don't forget these are times when we are told there is no right or wrong but you are FREE to do whatever you like. We only want to hear pleasing things, but not the truth.

Hahahahaha at man pleaser.

Anyone that doesn't want the truth shouldn't read my posts.

liberalchick:

1. The fact that you have to exclude atheists already nullifies your argument. It means your moral code of “no sex before marriage” isn’t universal and adhered by all so it shouldn’t be imposed on all. How can you tell someone is an atheist or not?

2. Really? You know the customs and ethics of all the HUNDREDS of culture and local religions in Nigeria?? Customs of a family/sect?? And you know for a fact that they ALL preach abstinence before marriage??

3. On the top of my head I know two Yoruba families their custom is for the fiancee to become pregnant to prove fertility.

4. Stop being smug and imposing of your ‘morals‘ that you don’t even follow on other people, they should stay where they belong for you and your family.

5. Please desist.

You are a funny woman

1. Can you state where I imposed no sex before marriage on anyone on this thread? Enlighten me, I thought atheism means lack of belief in a God/god. How then can I talk of a moral code/ethics for atheists when they don't believe in any supreme being?

2. If I claimed to know, I would not ask. I asked severally of a moral code/ethics that encourages sex before marriage. I was expecting 'the Igbo-Oras have a moral code' or the Buddhists etc.

3. And I know Christians who commit adultery or Muslims who steal. What's your point?

4. You keep making this personally about me. . I should stop being smug Are YOU feeling threatened by my supposed morals (*pst pst, that I don't follow)?

5. I think you should be the one to desist from dragging my personal life/family here and imagining me imposing morals.

Let me just dub today 'my NL day'

Sighs.

bukatyne:

4. You keep making this personally about me. . I should stop being smug Are YOU feeling threatened by my supposed morals (*pst pst, that I don't follow)?

5. I think you should be the one to desist from dragging my personal life/family here and imagining me imposing morals.

Lol why would I be threatened by your supposed moral that you couldn’t even keep? Obviously, you don’t think much of it, so why would I??

I see you’ve moved into your default victim mode.

Your personal life, you brought it here yourself, so it can’t be that personal. It’s a very much valid reference, why impose something you can’t adhere to? You don’t hesitate to call out or use the ‘personal’ story of a NLer if you think they’re a being hypocritical in their advise to an OP. You called out someone for advising an OP to leave her marriage, you used her ‘personal’ story to that.

This was fair use.

So, only people that believe in a supernatural being can have guiding principles?? Morals are only defined by a religion?? Now, who is funny?

This is a fact you can’t type your way out of, morality is subjective.

On a lighter note bukatyne deserves to be given an award today. Your contributions have been indeed very insightful.

bukatyne:
Let me just dub today 'my NL day'

Sighs.

liberalchick:

I just want to quickly correct a misconception about ‘morals’.

Morals are subjective and personal.

“No sex before marriage” is a personal moral of some that isn’t true for ALL. A subjective moral shouldn’t be imposed on all.

morality is subjective you say?? Why do women fume about deadbeat dads?? Maybe he just doesn't give a shit and it's all good because he has a different view to life. What do you say to that?

cococandy:


Morality is about doing good and evil, right and wrong.
There’s nothing inherently good or evil about sex.
It’s just like food. A Physiological need/want.

but there are consequences, Right or wrong?

bukatyne:


Hahahahaha at man pleaser.

Anyone that doesn't want the truth shouldn't read my posts.

Reality is brutal though.we will all smell the coffee

DeckXavier:
morality is subjective you say?? Why do women fume about deadbeat dads?? Maybe he just doesn't give a shit and it's all good because he has a different view to life. What do you say to that?

There’s a difference between ethics and morals.
Morals - personal, subjective, guiding principals of an individual, e.g it’s what makes you a good friend, good neighbor, good parent etc, they are how we treat people we know and it’s different from person to person. E.g not everybody believes it’s wrong to have sex before marriage.

Ethics - A set of morals defined or agreed upon by members of a society on what is right or wrong for the greater good of said society, they’re how we build a society. E.g ethically wrong to kill a human, cheat someone of their money etc.

Your question, some societies have come to universally adopt that its ethically wrong to deprive a child full resources from the two people that made him, Nigeria believes that too because they signed/or a member of the UN child rights. So, an organized society will use all means available to protect those rights for that child, because it’s for the greater good of the society.

sassysure:


Dear, get pregnant and let Nigerian society congratulate you.
U are responsible for your body. As simple as ABC.

It's not a feminism, menism topic. I'm using a realistic approach here as one who grew up in Nigeria.
If your daughter get belle, go and hold the man.

When a man complain he has std in this same nairaland, guys like him will descend on him. Why didn't u use condom, don't you know girls are hoes etc. It's his problem strictly. Wetin concern the babe. So also if a babe get belle, it's your shit, not they guy.

I think I'm going round and round.

And I saw where u were making it look like I said we should not educate our sons consistently, trying to push it on me to accept what you were projecting.
Continue .

Stop spinning it babe. It gets our girls nowhere.

you've said it all, I don't even know what these girls are on about. The liberal society you're trying to copy sef, do baby mamas get married easily?.
We all know men can get married easily, he only has to have the resources to provide for the woman and that's it, and you know the funniest part? It's still women that'll fling themselves at him whether or not he has a child, can you girls on this thread say the same for a woman??
Make una get sense abeg , unless sey marriage no dey your plan, then no wahala.

Ariza:
Lol.... You are so funny. Very funny!

Growing up My father a Yoruba man will always tell my sister and I "Omo to ba loyun , education eh pari nite" meaning if any of us that get pregnant that's the end of that person's education. And he will tell my brothers : " ti o ba fomo loyun education e pari niye, odi baba omo niye" meaning if you impregnate a lady, that's the end of your education and the beginning of fatherhood. . My mom's own is worst. She will tell them if get anyone pregnant, she will only buy them shawl they will use to back babies.

What's the point? We were trained responsibility. We were taught how to make right decisions. We weren't frightened with what society will say. We were made to realize direct consequences of what our actions can do to us not what how the society will see us. Putting fear into your female daughters because of what society will say won't do any good. People have been using that method for centuries yet it didn't work. You know why because Amaka You, and I make the society. In a situation where our lives can not be imitated, our children will not care because we have logs in our own eyes.

Madam train your children right and wrong, good and right and consequences train them well to make right decisions because of the impact in them and not because of the fear of what people will say. The truth is, the fear of the society is a fallacy! A fiasco! A failure. It isn't real anymore.

and girls still commit abortion? Lol.

pmoye:
On a lighter note bukatyne deserves to be given an award today. Your contributions have been indeed very insightful.

Thanks

To the detriment of my time offline

Omoluabi16:
Reality is brutal though.we will all smell the coffee

We will my brother.

liberalchick:

There’s a difference between ethics and morals.
[b]Morals - personal, subjective, guiding principals of an individua[/b]l, e.g it’s what makes you a good friend, good neighbor, good parent etc, they are how we treat people we know and it’s different from person to person. E.g not everybody believes it’s wrong to have sex before marriage.

Ethics - [b]A set of morals [/b]defined or agreed upon by members of a society on what is right or wrong for the greater good of said society, they’re how we build a society. E.g ethically wrong to kill a human, cheat someone of their money etc.

Your question, some societies have come to universally adopt that its ethically wrong to deprive a child full resources from the two people that made him, Nigeria believes that too because they signed/or a member of the UN child rights. So, an organized society will use all means available to protect those rights for that child, because it’s for the greater good of the society.

please these are just flummery of words, you've said nothing. Society doesn't exists without individuals and if individuals can decide for themselves what is moral or not, then ethics of the society is nullified.

Omoluabi16:
To what extent can society hold a man responsible for a unwanted pregnancy-love child? Aside child support.

this is what I'm saying, a man can't be forced to marry a lady who's got a child for him.

DeckXavier:
this is what I'm saying, a man can't be forced to marry a lady who's got a child for him.

No one on this thread has said a man should be forced to marry his baba mama. That’s a recipe for disaster it’s not even a good environment for a child. The only thing people have said is for men to also be held responsible for something that they equally participated in.

The real victims are the children and society, not always the woman. Most women are able to ‘reinvent’ themselves and her new husband is none the wiser. The innocent child is dumped with a distant relative and the society carries the burden of yet another innocent child. Nigeria is on track to have a record population explosion, do you know who will pay for that? You and I.

Some of these children don’t go to school because of lack of funds, if they become criminals, who suffers?

When organized societies have laws in place to force parents in providing for their children or have programs to secure the right of a child, you think they’re stupid or hate men? It was never about the woman but the child and the good of their society. Without such laws, the society will have to bear ALL the brunt of an unwanted child.

Omoluabi16:
To what extent can society hold a man responsible for a unwanted pregnancy-love child? Aside child support.

The man's responsibility for his child always ends at child support, this is even in Nordic countries where they have the overall best family support systems in place.

Bless the heart of that woman who got pregnant for a man who simply can't be bothered enough to be present in his child's life, she will finally understand how children are not raised solely on child support checks.

The time, the physical resources, the mental exertion, they all remain hers alone.

liberalchick:

No one on this thread has said a man should be forced to marry his baba mama. That’s a recipe for disaster it’s now even a good environment for a child. The only thing people have said is for men to also be held responsible for something that they equally participated in.

The real victims are the children and society, not always the woman. Most women are able to ‘reinvent’ themselves and her new husband is none the wiser. The innocent child is dumped with a distant relative and the society carries the burden of yet another innocent child. Nigeria is on track to have a record population explosion, do you know who will pay for that? You and I.

how easy is it for a woman who has a child out of wedlock to marry? Talk true make devil no shame. Men will always want women without kids, I'm not saying baby mamas don't get married, but how many? Intuitively girls know having a child outside of marriage is bad market no matter how you try to paint it, otherwise why do they try to coerce the men who got them pregnant to into marriage?. What we are saying is that be responsible for your shit, when a man tries to go raw on you, do not accept. You know the consequences, unless marriage isn't in your plan.

Unnerve:

Lol, there's something about you.

What o biko?

DeckXavier:
how easy is it for a woman who has a child out of wedlock to marry? Talk true make devil no shame. Men will always want women without kids, I'm not saying baby mamas don't get married, but how many? Intuitively girls know having a child outside of marriage is bad market no matter how you try to paint it, otherwise why do they try to coerce the men who got them pregnant to into marriage?. What we are saying is that be responsible for your shit, when a man tries to go raw on you, do not accept. You know the consequences, unless marriage isn't in your plan.

Men and women should both be responsible for their shit, it makes for a much better society. Lol let me quote my mom “two heads is better than one”.

Lol yes many men unknowingly marry single moms. The few ones that marry single moms say they can’t raise another man’s child, the child is usually dumped with a distant relative in the village or another town.

Society, which is you and I suffer WAY more than the single mom. That’s why it’s a collective effort, boys should not be excluded from sex education and sexual responsibility.

Unnerve:

The man's responsibility for his child always ends at child support, this is even in Nordic countries where they have the overall best family support systems in place.

Bless the heart of that woman who got pregnant for a man who simply can't be bothered enough to be present in his child's life, she will finally understand how children are not raised solely on child support checks.

The time, the physical resources, the mental exertion, they all remain hers alone.

women are at disadvantage no matter the angle you look from, free all these girls abeg. Make them dey yarn nonsense.

liberalchick:

Men and women should both be responsible for their shit, it makes for a much better society. Lol let me quote my mom “two heads is better than one”.

Lol yes many men unknowingly marry single moms. The few ones that marry single moms say they can’t raise another man’s child, the child is usually dumped with a distant relative in the village or another town.

Society, which is you and I suffer WAY more than the single mom. That’s why it’s a collective effort, boys should not be excluded from sex education and sexual responsibility.

So how are men to be held responsible before and after the pregnancy? I want to know if you've got something to say that sassysure hasn't said.

liberalchick:

No one on this thread has said a man should be forced to marry his baba mama. That’s a recipe for disaster it’s not even a good environment for a child. The only thing people have said is for men to also be held responsible for something that they equally participated in.

The real victims are the children and society, not always the woman. Most women are able to ‘reinvent’ themselves and her new husband is none the wiser. The innocent child is dumped with a distant relative and the society carries the burden of yet another innocent child. Nigeria is on track to have a record population explosion, do you know who will pay for that? You and I.

Some of these children don’t go to school because of lack of funds, if they become criminals, who suffers?

When organized societies have laws in place to force parents in providing for their children or have programs to secure the right of a child, you think they’re stupid or hate men? It was never about the woman but the child and the good of their society. Without such laws, the society will have to bear ALL the brunt of an unwanted child.

what about men who'll provide for the kid but have nothing to do with the child emotionally?