₦airaland Forum

DexterousOne:
That is not increasing the tax base o
You are taxing to death the existing tax base

You see
That's the mistake the government is making

And no
Subsidy has not been removed
That is a lie from the pit of hell

And as an accountant who has done tax matters
I saw the disaster thaf turnover basis Fowler implemented caused

So that was not a good move at all.....

You heard
I saw.
The economy is depressed at the moment
Expand the tax base
And not kill the existing ones.....


Luxury taxes that GEJ proposed
But was too cowardly to implement
Would have been a very good start

The stamp duty is still taxing the existing tax base and not expanding it

Dont take it the wrong way
But when it comes to this specific matter
You dont have the full idea
Or picture

let have a proper discussion pms has been deregulated, now what is left is access to fires to import by Moman and dapma members ....Mrs oil plc imported 100 m litres in March......currently oil companies info us of the stoppage of payments and processing of way bills.....we should file claims to pef ...now pef and ppra is set up by decress and act of parliament which must be expunge in our laws .....the p.i.b bills submitted by the president has expunge and repel both ppra and pef laws...i benefit from subsides and way bills am if u what the presentation by Narto in parliament i was there making our submission ......please can u tell us the number of person tax pre 2015 and now....let compare...

I keep saying it

The first step towards saving this country
Is to tear in totality

That fraudulent document called the "exclusive list"

Once that is done
Then phased deregulation
Not the nonsense done by the last two admins


Third
Economic policy geared towards increased productivity

We dont need to sink ourselves into this kind of debts to achieve all these

But then again
Are Nigerians ready to pay the price?

Because I dont mind paying market rates for electric aw long as I dont ever have to handle generator again (tho generator importers and folks likeOte$ wont like that)

I dont mind paying market rates for PMS

In fact
Demand for it will crash because with steady light individual household demand for petrol will halve

Think of how much good that will do
That we are finally free from subsidy chain

Hopefully if Dangote comes into that space
And other players follow
We may head that direction

But I am always apprehensive because our regulators sometimes can fck things up

DexterousOne:
That is not increasing the tax base o
You are taxing to death the existing tax base

You see
That's the mistake the government is making

And no
Subsidy has not been removed
That is a lie from the pit of hell

And as an accountant who has done tax matters
I saw the disaster thaf turnover basis Fowler implemented caused

So that was not a good move at all.....

You heard
I saw.
The economy is depressed at the moment
Expand the tax base
And not kill the existing ones.....


Luxury taxes that GEJ proposed
But was too cowardly to implement
Would have been a very good start

The stamp duty is still taxing the existing tax base and not expanding it

Dont take it the wrong way
But when it comes to this specific matter
You dont have the full idea
Or picture

u are not saying anything ....simple we have xXxX million of person in 2015 and now xXxX million of person in 2020 ....u don't understand oil bussiness better not comments on things u don't have deep knowledge of ....Ago was deregulated by obj ,dpk by yardua, pms by pmb....

ahiboilandgas:
let have a proper discussion pms has been deregulated, now what is left is access to fires to import by Moman and dapma members ....Mrs oil plc imported 100 m litres in March......currently oil companies info us of the stoppage of payments and processing of way bills.....we should file claims to pef ...now pef and ppra is set up by decress and act of parliament which must be expunge in our laws .....the p.i.b bills submitted by the president has expunge and repel both ppra and pef laws...i benefit from subsides and way bills am if u what the presentation by Narto in parliament i was there making our submission ......please can u tell us the number of person tax pre 2015 and now....let compare...

What is your definition of "deregulation "

Let's start from there
And then have a productive discussion as you wished

ahiboilandgas:
u are not saying anything ....simple we have xXxX million of person in 2015 and now xXxX million of person in 2020 ....u don't understand oil bussiness better not comments on things u don't have deep knowledge of ....Ago was deregulated by obj ,dpk by yardua, pms by pmb....

Maybe you should take your own advice and not comment on tax matters either
Just saying

Nowhere in this world will you have a pseudo economic meltdown
And the govt idea of getting out of it
Is to tax the existing tax base to death

I'm all for more responsibility when it comes to Taxation
As it seems Nigerians generally are aloof and irresponsible when it comes to taxes


But not this route

But hey, they have done what they want to do

It's the mitigation we should think of

ahiboilandgas:
u are not saying anything ....simple we have xXxX million of person in 2015 and now xXxX million of person in 2020 ....u don't understand oil bussiness better not comments on things u don't have deep knowledge of ....Ago was deregulated by obj ,dpk by yardua, pms by pmb....

if PMS has been fully deregulated as you have said then why do govt still fix Price for PMS? why are we having almost a uniform Price in all the states of the federation? why is pef still there to capture Aquila for product haulaging if the pms is fully deregulated. PLs shed more light.

aremso:
if PMS has been fully deregulated as you have said then why do govt still fix Price for PMS? why are we having almost a uniform Price in all the states of the federation? why is pef still there to capture Aquila for product haulaging if the pms is fully deregulated. PLs shed more light.

Thank you very much !

That's why I asked him to define deregulation

Dont bother
The industry is FAR from deregulation in the real sense of it...
Except he comes with a compelling argument

In a really deregulated industry
It's the private sector, and the consumers who will determine the price

The government will just play a regulatory role
Nothing more

And if the industry is indeed deregulated
Certain elements of NNPC should have been disbanded by now
And not be playing dual role of player and regulator at the same time

Only proper deregulation will help us in that respect

Not a pseudo one

aremso:
if PMS has been fully deregulated as you have said then why do govt still fix Price for PMS? why are we having almost a uniform Price in all the states of the federation? why is pef still there to capture Aquila for product haulaging if the pms is fully deregulated. PLs shed more light.

pef and ppra must be scraped but not be fait this not a military junta ..it a creation of the law and mist be expunge legally in the National assemble...that why in the recently amende p.i.b bill pef and ppra seize to fgn agency if passed by the Nass and signed by the president.....this process must happen ....secondly my depot Mrs oil plc has info transporters that henceforth per claims should be file directly to pef by individual transporters not company like before hence removing liabilities but current and future on the Nigerian govt /pef.....pef has refused by pay marketers called indepdentant since febuarary so transporter are at their own risk going forward...pef money is not budgeted by the Nigerian state is our contribution me and u that is used to equilze the rate .....all depot pay 3 naira per litre while all consumer pay 1 naira and transporter 2 naira into the fund (Nta)depending on zone and distance from depots ....this contribution is done by us to pay for the way bills that why aquila is still captured .....the NNPC/ppmc get dollars from crude sale and other activities so it give it subsidary ppmc/duke oil dollars at 380 to import petrol ....the nnpc cannot work at black markets rate 445 .....so this the anomally the depot are now saying give is dollars at 380 let import too But the cbn is scared of round tripping ......pms is supposed to be 190 like Ago but cos the nnpc has cheaper dollar it can import......nb I have xxxx m unpaid way bills in pef since march ...

DexterousOne:
Only proper deregulation will help us in that respect

Not a pseudo one

u dont know anything about down stream ....just read and learn bro....better

aremso:
if PMS has been fully deregulated as you have said then why do govt still fix Price for PMS? why are we having almost a uniform Price in all the states of the federation? why is pef still there to capture Aquila for product haulaging if the pms is fully deregulated. PLs shed more light.

only mention of aquila is know u are either a dealer/transporter or very inform about the industry .......plenty marketers are also worried of the uncertainty product 151 in depot Lagos station go survive per or no pef.....northner station go suffer or closed shop ....soon .....it the beging of a new dawn......40 years of equilazation

ahiboilandgas:
u dont know anything about down stream ....just read and learn bro....better

You just admitted in your post above that the industry is not deregulated

At least as of yet

That's my point and you have confirmed it.
Maybe like you said
If the act is repealed

We MAY have some semblance of deregulation
But as long as subsidised dollars is in the mix
Pricing is still somehow fixed

And government agencies are still playing dual roles
My brother, that industry is NOT deregulated

DexterousOne:
Nowhere in this world will you have a pseudo economic meltdown
And the govt idea of getting out of it
Is to tax the existing tax base to death

I'm all for more responsibility when it comes to Taxation
As it seems Nigerians generally are aloof and irresponsible when it comes to taxes


But not this route

But hey, they have done what they want to do

It's the mitigation we should think of

why i engaged u cos I taught u had some radical ideas to present like the 50 bn dollars post world war 11 fund for Europe or the solodu redenomination of the Naira and bank recapitalaztion.......femi adesina is on nairaland he could pick 1 or 2 points from such ....

ahiboilandgas:
why i engaged u cos I taught u had some radical ideas to present like the 50 bn dollars post world war 11 fund for Europe or the solodu redenomination of the Naira and bank recapitalaztion.......femi adesina is on nairaland he could pick 1 or 2 points from such ....

You dont need "radical ideas" to save this country
What we need is cooperation and common sense policies

Period
Some of which I have highlighted above
And those who know can appreciate

DexterousOne:
You just admitted in your post above that the industry is not deregulated

At least as of yet

That's my point and you have confirmed it.
Maybe like you said
If the act is repealed

We MAY have some semblance of deregulation
But as long as subsidised dollars is in the mix
Pricing is still somehow fixed

And government agencies are still playing dual roles
My brother, that industry is NOT deregulated

u are intentionally refusing to learn.....if u don't understand that some Laws and act setup pef and ppra must be expunged by the National assemble as submitted in the p.i.b for the deregulation cycle to completed then sorry ...

ahiboilandgas:
u are intentionally refusing to learn.....if u don't understand that some Laws and act setup pef and ppra must be expunged by the National assemble as submitted in the p.i.b for the deregulation cycle to completed then sorry ...

We are still saying the same thing

The industry is YET to be deregulated
You are probably the one refusing to listen to me because you have already dismissed me as one who does not know anything

In the real economic sense
You cannot call what is on ground today a deregulation

Maybe it's going to be an eventuality soon

But as of today
The industry is not deregulated in the real sense of it

ahiboilandgas:
u are intentionally refusing to learn.....if u don't understand that some Laws and act setup pef and ppra must be expunged by the National assemble as submitted in the p.i.b for the deregulation cycle to completed then sorry ...

I asked you for your own understanding of what deregulation is, you must have missed that part due to the new pages coming.....


Will you for example say that our power industry is fully deregulated?
This is a separate question though

DexterousOne:
You just admitted in your post above that the industry is not deregulated

At least as of yet

That's my point and you have confirmed it.
Maybe like you said
If the act is repealed

We MAY have some semblance of deregulation
But as long as subsidised dollars is in the mix
Pricing is still somehow fixed

And government agencies are still playing dual roles
My brother, that industry is NOT deregulated

u are intentionally refusing to learn...for full deregulation cycle to completed. P.i.b must be approved by the house and sign by president....in this p.i.b submitted last week regulatory agency like pef and ppra have been scraped and staff will be move to ministry ..this agency are a creation of the law in National assemble the same route musy be followed to reple ,expunge the act setting them up .....this a democary buhari cannot wake from sleep and decree pef and ppra are no more ....those powers are in National assemble.....

ahiboilandgas:
u are intentionally refusing to learn...for full deregulation cycle to completed. P.i.b must be approved by the house and sign by president....in this p.i.b submitted last week regulatory agency like pef and ppra have been scraped and staff will be move to ministry ..this agency are a creation of the law in National assemble the same route musy be followed to reple ,expunge the act setting them up .....this a democary buhari cannot wake from sleep and decree pef and ppra are no more ....those powers are in National assemble.....

Okay
Let's follow your logic

These agencies are scrapped after a vote is held
Good

Does that now mean that the players in the industry can now operate full fledged ?
Like no preferential treatment for fore,, you control your pricing, all that?


Because anything short of this is not a deregulation
You have the floor
Shed more light

DexterousOne:
I asked you for your own understanding of what deregulation is, you must have missed that part due to the new pages coming.....


Will you for example say that our power industry is fully deregulated?
This is a separate question though

am not fully inform on the power sector but I heard the 58 naira is the market reflective rate but govt still own shares in disco and 100 TCN.infact tols disco now 100 percent owned by govt ....like wide the issue of pricing by the regulator nerc.....why is no body regulating and fixing cement price ....cos some commodity are too sensitive to leave in the hand of vampire capitalist...

ahiboilandgas:
am not fully inform on the power sector but I heard the 58 naira is the market reflective rate but govt still own shares in disco and 100 TCN.infact tols disco now 100 percent owned by govt ....like wide the issue of pricing by the regulator nerc.....why is no body regulating and fixing cement price ....cos some commodity are too sensitive to leave in the hand of vampire capitalist...

Are discos at liberty to pick which GENCO they want to deal with?

Are the Gencos privately owned?
You see, we are getting somewhere

DexterousOne:
Okay
Let's follow your logic

These agencies are scrapped after a vote is held
Good

Does that now mean that the players in the industry can now operate full fledged ?
Like no preferential treatment for fore,, you control your pricing, all that?


Because anything short of this is not a deregulation
You have the floor
Shed more light

one more hurdle is the exchange rates ...NNPC earn dollars on it own and can give ppmc and nnpc retail limited at 380 while AA rano and ibeto dont earn dollars who give them ? At what rate ? Will they import or round trip forex ?....how about total they earn dollars will total upstream gove total down stream at 380 or 450 ....ok rationally 450 what is their landing cost and pump price 190 while nnpc .....160 where u go buy ......so the exchange rate must be harmonised ....or dangote take everbody out ........

ahiboilandgas:
one more hurdle is the exchange rates ...NNPC earn dollars on it own and can give ppmc and nnpc retail limited at 380 while AA rano and ibeto dont earn dollars who give them ? At what rate ? Will they import or round trip forex ?....how about total they earn dollars will total upstream gove total down stream at 380 or 450 ....ok rationally 450 what is their landing cost and pump price 190 while nnpc .....160 where u go buy ......so the exchange rate must be harmonised ....or dangote take everbody out ........

So you see my good sir....
That the road to deregulation still have some miles to it....
If the government is sincere to at least pull most of this off
They would earn my admiration
But till then......

GEJ should have done some of these though
But that is story for another day

DexterousOne:
Are discos at liberty to pick which GENCO they want to deal with?

Are the Gencos privately owned?
You see, we are getting somewhere

how do u meant the genco move power to Nigerian bulk electricity company for onward sale to disco.....all power produce in Nigeria are warehoused in a National grid and sold to disco through the bulk company and stabilization funds.......i don't have mist detail....prof Barth naji wanted his firm geometric to have exclusive distribution of Aba and enugu disco and was rejected and remove as a minister ....derugualtion don't happen over night it take time with proper planning and strategy is not like changing girl friend is like changing wife ..

ahiboilandgas:
how do u meant the genco move power to Nigerian bulk electricity company for onward sale to disco.....all power produce in Nigeria are warehoused in a National grid and sold to disco through the bulk company and stabilization funds.......i don't have mist detail....prof Barth naji wanted his firm geometric to have exclusive distribution of Aba and enugu disco and was rejected and remove as a minister ....derugualtion don't happen over night it take time with proper planning and strategy is not like changing girl friend is like changing wife ..

Thank you very much for the bolded....

Do we even need a "national grid"?
There are other pertinent questions we need to ask

There is so much that needs to be done
This govt and the one before it are just not serious enough in my assessment

And the masses dont help matters either

Serious reform is needed

Power, transport and other infrastructure

Then education and healthcare

Do Discos buy direct from Genco's now?

DexterousOne:
Are discos at liberty to pick which GENCO they want to deal with?

Are the Gencos privately owned?
You see, we are getting somewhere

ojesymsym:
Do Discos buy direct from Genco's now?

I dont think so
Hence my question

The Discos should be at liberty to having options
That's what a real deregulated market looks like

I am not sure what you mean as per the part bolded, Ahib has explained above how the power gets evacuated from the Gencos through the NBEC to the Discos.
What the Discos need liberty for is to fix prices without government breathing down their neck, so I ask you. If the FG does that are Nigerians going to accept the new reflective cost? Don't forget even the staggered one done recently has been met with very serious opposition.

DexterousOne:
I dont think so
Hence my question

The Discos should be at liberty to having options
That's what a real deregulated market looks like

DexterousOne:
So you see my good sir....
That the road to deregulation still have some miles to it....
If the government is sincere to at least pull most of this off
They would earn my admiration
But till then......

GEJ should have done some of these though
But that is story for another day

it was never an over night task cos it involves moving Nigeria from a social state to a capitalist driven one to increase efficiency,investment and curb corruptions ...obj removed deseal from subsides,yardua kerosene, pmb petrol and president xXxX sign p.i.d in 2023 ...president hmm? Sowore AAC cancels everthing and reintroduce subsidies on all....

ojesymsym:
I am not sure what you mean as per the part bolded, Ahib has explained above how the power gets evacuated from the Gencos through the NBEC to the Discos.
What the Discos need liberty for is to fix prices without government breathing down their neck, so I ask you. If the FG does that are Nigerians going to accept the new reflective cost? Don't forget even the staggered one done recently has been met with very serious opposition.

at 58 naira for band a and 20 hours guaranteed electricty to some certain rich area while 30 naira to poor area and less than 10 hours daily......this is called segregation of society and economic rascism....the voters are in the latter and will deal with u some day ....

DexterousOne:
Thank you very much for the bolded....

Do we even need a "national grid"?
There are other pertinent questions we need to ask

There is so much that needs to be done
This govt and the one before it are just not serious enough in my assessment

And the masses dont help matters either

Serious reform is needed

Power, transport and other infrastructure

Then education and healthcare

Your recent arguments are spot on.

The government isn't doing enough ( buhari is not solely to be blamed)

The tax base should be expanded

Reform is needed, both values and an industrial policy.

Other areas of interest ..  innovation ....

robotics , artificial intelligence , internet of things

Agriculture, education, value addition, industries, utilisation of natural resources

Hygienic politics

Decolonised mind

Of utmost importance is data and how to boost productivity.