Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It - Culture (25)

Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It - Culture (25) - Nairaland

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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Nobody: 1:04pm On Nov 29, 2020

Juliusmalema:
Igbos history ends with Igbos.

who talked about igbo history ?
look, you are delusional, you hate Edos, noted.
That doesn't mean you can make up your own "facts"

Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by samuk: 1:17pm On Nov 29, 2020

davidmarker2:
who talked about igbo history ?
look, you are delusional, you hate Edos, noted.
That doesn't mean you can make up your own "facts"

The guy has been thoroughly brainwashed by the Yoruba for too long, Imagine how embarrassing for him to now listen to the video of his fellow Igbo brother and realised that he has been scammed and to add insults to injury, he also realised that his Yoruba masters and teachers have little regard for his Igbo people. grin

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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Balogunodua(m): 1:22pm On Nov 29, 2020

My Edo people have decimated ausal grin

from Benin owns the word Oba to Benin owns Ada haba e no dey Taya una ni cheesy

ajeku iyaa leje o grin

1 Like

Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by samuk: 1:33pm On Nov 29, 2020*

davidmarker2:
Guys, use the parts of the videos which are referenced.
This guy has already done the job.
I don't need to get myself tired.
I can go back to writing my paper.

Perharps it is time to make a topic on yoruba true history with references such as in the videos.
Also add all the proofs I gave.
The yoruba don't like history, they are interested in destroying history, not discovering it.
True history puts them to shame, so they must destroy it and claim other people's history.
You must show them their true history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llporKrPsbU&t=1662s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2hU-ibkPfg

Etinosa1234
AreaFada2
Samuk
Valirex
Davidnazee
gregyboy

You are right, a thread putting Yoruba history in proper perspective will be great.

Starting from the pre-Yoruba southwest independent tribal villages that fought and sold themselves into slavery to the creation of Yoruba in 1808 to accommodate indigenous tribes of now south western Nigeria and former freed slaves from Europe who were not all originally from the Niger area.

Some of these former slaves were from across Africa..dahomey, sierra leone etc.

The contributions of some of these free slaves who were missionary agents with western education on the creation of a common Yoruba language through the early Yoruba dictionary and bible.

The indigenous tribes of the south west that were under Benin kingdom in pre Yoruba time should be separated from the Yoruba slave confederacy with the indigenous tribes that was created in the 1800s.

The Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife political creation to give them common heritage.

The attempt to steal Benin history to give the authenticity, legitimacy and extend the history of Yoruba earlier than 1800s.

The Yoruba have been moulding their history up to confuse less informed present day Nigerians.

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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Nobody: 3:34pm On Nov 29, 2020

davidmarker2:
who talked about igbo history ? look, you are delusional, you hate Edos, noted. That doesn't mean you can make up your own "facts"

Alright.
Face your historical squabbles with Yorubas..
Thank you.

Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Nobody: 3:37pm On Nov 29, 2020

samuk:
The guy has been thoroughly brainwashed by the Yoruba for too long, Imagine how embarrassing for him to now listen to the video of his fellow Igbo brother and realised that he has been scammed and to add insults to injury, he also realised that his Yoruba masters and teachers have little regard for his Igbo people.

Good I have been brainwashed and head washed. We cherish it that way.

So we aren't concerned how you settle your historical imbroglio with Yorubas.

As far as Igbo no enter there, we are fine and good. We have nothing in common to discuss..

Nobody listens to mere fabrications this 21st century.

Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by TAO11(f): 4:00pm On Nov 29, 2020*

Benin don cast grin

Evil Laughter!

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12300045_1180859311783653img20190722154954jpegb78bac5c83a42178910da3de9aa62adbjpegjpeg9cfba2c96c509f82646e09ea44461ee6_jpeg_jpegd2120de126612f0fe3ddadd01b9c1d3b
.
.
Watch the Omonoba n’Edo talk about how and when the Oba-ship was FIRST established in Benin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-q_F2zch8M

Afam4eva

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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by TAO11(f): 4:01pm On Nov 29, 2020

So far in the course of this thread, the following retar.ded claims have been devastatingly debunked:

(1) The retar.ded claim (by disgruntled Binis) that Yorubas began using the word “Oba” in the post-1930s.

This has been debunked with written evidence of Yoruba usage from 1899, from 1897, from c.1867, from 1845, et al.

(2) The retar.ded claim (by @samuk) that there exists some “600 years” old written evidence of Benin usage of the word “Oba”.

This retar.ded claim is yet to be substantiated (even with an atom of evidence) despite more than 10 days (and still counting) of their torturous search. cheesy

Instead, these disgruntled Binis were at best only able to demonstrate (from their own warped logic) that the Yorubas have an earlier written evidence — 1845 (Yoruba) Vs. 1867 (Bini).

——————————————————
But what does it really mean that I was able to produce an 1845 written evidence and the Binis weren’t able to come even close to that ??

Well, it just simply means that the Binis weren’t able to come close to the Yorubas, despite their own bogus claim of wRiTteN eViDeNcE. Nothing more, nothing less! [I know I’m being too nice now]. grin

To put the same question in other words:
Does the comparative written evidence already provided really mean that the Binis began using this word only in the year 1867 — because that’s all they could provide ??

Funny enough, this line of warped reasoning is what the disgruntled Binis have been trailing. Should I play their game along with them? No, I’m Yoruba! cool

To every sound and logically mind, such conclusion (based on available writing) is too obvious as a flawed reasoning and logical fallacy — even though I could have forced their own flawed reasoning down their throats.

Such particular logical fallacy is know in analytical logic specifically by the name: argumentum ex silentio. grin

————————————————————
Having debunked their deluded claim of 1930s [see (1)]; having exposed @samuk’s fraud of “600 years” old writing [see (2)]; having exposed their inability to produce anything close to (let alone earlier than) the Yorubas’ [see (2)]; having debunked their warped logic of arguing from earlier written usage (despite the fact that it favours me); I now turn, at this point, to discussing the actual objective evidence for determining the indigenous ownership of a word — that is, the linguistic evidence.

——————————————————————
The Argument:
(I) If a word is in use in a particular language, but its literal meaning can not be meaningfully analyzed within that language; then such word does not originally belong to that language. Gbam!

(II) The word “Ọba” (as used by the Binis for their monarch) does not have any literal meaning in the language of the Binis.

(III) In conclusion, the word “Ọba” (as used by the Binis for their monarch) does not belong originally to the Bini language — In other words, it is a loanword.

————————————————————
The Evidence:
An objective source of evidence for the meanings of Bini words is obviously and undoubtedly an authoritative dictionary of the Bini language itself.

[This is not to be confused with a dictionary of the English language which simply features a paltry number of non-English words of widespread, global, popular usage — such as: “fufu”, “agbada”, “oba”, et al.]

As such, recourse will now be made to a Bini-English Lexicon. This is so that the English readers here can access the written meanings which are attributed to the actual Bini words.

One such example of an authoritative material for this purpose is the work entitled: “A Concise Dictionary of The Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” compiled by the professor of African Phonetics and Linguistics, Hans Melzian.

———————————————————
Under the entry “Ọba” (for which Professor Melzian used “ɔ” to represent “ọ“, in order to distinguish /o/ as in odd

from /o/ as in old sad

); the following are some interesting observations from this Bini dictionary.

(A) Unlike what the author did with virtually all other Bini words within the same dictionary, he did not give a literal meaning to this word — as I have expected. cheesy

Rather, he simply describes the person whom the Binis refer to by this word. Interesting, isn’t it?! cheesy

See embedded image below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754901_bb7fcaad09fc479498aedbb24cb57370_jpeg_jpeg80dbd02cb7ce1db81e998db7e161c38e

(B) But more than that, the author (in fact) let the cat out of the bag. He revealed why this word could not have had a literal meaning in a dictionary of Bini language.

Before I reveal his reason, it is important that one is acquainted with a few notations and abbreviations which he define in his work.

Two examples of these are relevant to my discourse here, and they are: “Yor.” and “cf.” which he defines as: “Yoruba” and “etymological reference” respectively.

See embedded image below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754902_541f22648c37485488282bea682c0e27_jpeg_jpegf272ec9b7e8de333789df15c524980aa

In the light of this background, let’s then see what reason the author indicates as to why this word could have appeared without a literal meaning in the Bini dictionary.

See embedded image below as highlighted on the top-right corner in continuation of the bottom-left corner.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754903_7e31a3d03b7c407ab60e863fbf8fb4c2_jpeg_jpegfba5de93eebde69a9ef00beabf7a605c

In the light of his foregoing definition of abbreviations, what we have here in the phrase “cf. Yor. ɔba” then becomes extremely clear and straightforward.

In other words, the word “Ọba” [ɔba] (used by the Binis for their monarch) has its ”etymology” [cf.] (aka. ”origin”) in the Yoruba language [Yor.]. cool

Quod Erat Demonstrandum! cool

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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 4:15pm On Nov 29, 2020

TAO11:
So far in the course of this thread, the following retar.ded claims have been devastatingly debunked:

(1) The retar.ded claim (by disgruntled Binis) that Yorubas began using the word “Oba” in the post-1930s.

This has been debunked with written evidence of Yoruba usage from 1899, from 1897, from c.1867, from 1845, et al.

(2) The retar.ded claim (by @samuk) that there exists some “600 years” old written evidence of Benin usage of the word “Oba”.

This retar.ded claim is yet to be substantiated (even with an atom of evidence) despite more than 10 days (and still counting) of their torturous search.

Instead, these disgruntled Binis were at best only able to demonstrate (from their own warped logic) that the Yorubas have an earlier written evidence — 1845 (Yoruba) Vs. 1867 (Bini).

——————————————————
But what does it really mean that I was able to produce an 1845 written evidence and the Binis weren’t able to come even close to that ??

Well, it just simply means that the Binis weren’t able to come close to the Yorubas, despite their own bogus claim of wRiTteN eViDeNcE. Nothing more, nothing less! [I know I’m being too nice now].

To put the same question in other words:
Does the comparative written evidence already provided really mean that the Binis began using this word only in the year 1867 — because that’s all they could provide ??

Funny enough, this line of warped reasoning is what the disgruntled Binis have been trailing. Should I play their game along with them? No, I’m Yoruba!

To every sound and logically mind, such conclusion (based on available writing) is too obvious as a flawed reasoning and logical fallacy — even though I could have forced their own flawed reasoning down their throats.

Such particular logical fallacy is know in analytical logic specifically by the name: argumentum ex silentio.

————————————————————
Having debunked their deluded claim of 1930s [see (1)]; having exposed @samuk’s fraud of “600 years” old writing [see (2)]; having exposed their inability to produce anything close to (let alone earlier than) the Yorubas’ [see (2)]; having debunked their warped logic of arguing from earlier written usage (despite the fact that it favours me); I now turn, at this point, to discussing the actual objective evidence for determining the indigenous ownership of a word — that is, the linguistic evidence.

——————————————————————
The Argument:
(I) If a word is in use in a particular language, but its literal meaning can not be meaningfully analyzed within that language; then such word does not originally belong to that language. Gbam!

(II) The word “Ọba” (as used by the Binis for their monarch) does not have any literal meaning in the language of the Binis.

(III) In conclusion, the word “Ọba” (as used by the Binis for their monarch) does not belong originally to the Bini language — In other words, it is a loanword.

————————————————————
The Evidence:
An objective source of evidence for the meanings of Bini words is obviously and undoubtedly an authoritative dictionary of the Bini language itself.

[This is not to be confused with a dictionary of the English language which simply features a paltry number of non-English words of widespread, global, popular usage — such as: “fufu”, “agbada”, “oba”, et al.]

As such, recourse will now be made to a Bini-English Lexicon. This is so that the English readers here can access the written meanings which are attributed to the actual Bini words.

One such example of an authoritative material for this purpose is the work entitled: “A Concise Dictionary of The Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” compiled by the professor of African Phonetics and Linguistics, Hans Melzian.

———————————————————
Under the entry “Ọba” (for which Professor Melzian used “ɔ” to represent “ọ“, in order to distinguish /o/ as in odd from /o/ as in old ); the following are some interesting observations from this Bini dictionary.

(A) Unlike what the author did with virtually all other Bini words within the same dictionary, he did not give a literal meaning to this word — as I have expected.

Rather, he simply describes the person whom the Binis refer to by this word. Interesting, isn’t it?! See embedded image below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754901_bb7fcaad09fc479498aedbb24cb57370_jpeg_jpeg80dbd02cb7ce1db81e998db7e161c38e

(B) But more than that, the author (in fact) let the cat out of the bag. He revealed why this word could not have had a literal meaning in a dictionary of Bini language.

Before I reveal his reason, it is important that one is acquainted with a few notations and abbreviations which he define in his work.

Two examples of these are relevant to my discourse here, and they are: “Yor.” and “cf.” which he defines as: “Yoruba” and “etymological reference” respectively.

See embedded image below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754902_541f22648c37485488282bea682c0e27_jpeg_jpegf272ec9b7e8de333789df15c524980aa

In the light of this background, let’s then see what reason the author indicates as to why this word could have appeared without a literal meaning in the Bini dictionary.

See embedded image below as highlighted on the top-right corner in continuation of the bottom-left corner.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12754903_7e31a3d03b7c407ab60e863fbf8fb4c2_jpeg_jpegfba5de93eebde69a9ef00beabf7a605c

In the light of his foregoing definition of abbreviations, what we have here in the phrase “cf. Yor. ɔba” then becomes extremely clear and straightforward.

In other words, the word “Ọba” [ɔba] (used by the Binis for their monarch) has its ”etymology” [cf.] (aka. ”origin”) in the Yoruba language [Yor.].

Quod Erat Demonstrandum!

So far in this thread

The title oba entered the yoruba lexicon through benin ventures into Eastern yoruba during its expansion, and soon diffused into all yorubas

There is a parable in owo, that says, just as the oba n' idu commands respect on earth olodumare commands respect in heaven
Despite interaction with eastern Yoruba they made a sizable contact with vast yoruba tribe too

Benins supplied the atilaries used in the yoruba civil war of late 1800

If we are to mention benin influence on vast yoruba land it will too numerous to mention

The yorubas always have the claim oromiyan came to establish the obaship stool on benin but when taken a deeper look into this history shows that it was a political staged myth of late 1800 after the benin invasion by the British, oba eweka11 sought monarchial help from the then ooni to help strengthening the political power of the edo people who was emerging from a devastating war that burnt down the city capital
You know the rest
The benin monarch accepted to be one of oduduwa son, in the hierarchy it was ooni first and oba of benin second, at these time alafin was still having superiority battle against the ooni, later when awolowo elevated the stool, the alafin subcumed and decided to stay at second displacing the oba to third position

So their argument on the ownership of the word oba has been defeated

It was mere politcs even the yoruba unification was not historical and ife was never thier ancestral town ife was a religious town to the yorubas

The title oba has bern in the yoruba lexicon as far
As 16century when benin expanded into their territory that would be 6centuries now
Despite the long age it has been in Yoruba lexicon it remains foreign to them

Imagine benin supplying yoruba warriors fighting atilaries, controlling their lands, giving them kings, controlling their market, just imagine how the title oba would sound to them

When the oba of benin was being taken to calabar by the British they had to cover his face to avoid uprise from both benin areas and non edo territorie

Note
Not until 1930 the ooni of ife used the word oba officially to adress is title letting go of the British sir in replacement of oba

He made a mistake of not foreseeing the end of the false political unification of benin people under yoruba umbrella he only saw the advantage of the name it would bring to his stool

He never proclaimed other yoruba monarchs to follow suit but automatically the other yoruba bought into adding oba to thier title

Note

Ogie is a title for duke only the oba of benin bears the title oba of benin

The question every tribe should ask yoruba is why do they adopt the word oba as a generic term for kingship when already is known to adress a popular monarch

I guess the answer can also be found in my writeup

Picture of one of the ooni holding an edo ceremonial sword wanting to mimic the benin stool, but i guess he later droped it

1 Like

Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by TAO11(f): 4:47pm On Nov 29, 2020*

A Bini liar said “Ogie” simply means “Duke”. Well, that’s interesting! cheesy

And if even such a lie is true (oxymoron) that would again prove the point we’ve been making — because:

One of Benin King’s praise-name is “Ogie”. See Bini dictionary.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12762890_650fc51077c54b8dadeefb966b0c1191_jpeg_jpegff9422983958463105b739f61c55a06f

In sum then, the Omonoba n’Edo is therefore subject to a higher King — the king called Oghene n’Uhe [yes, that’s how the ancient Binis regard the Ooni — check it out for yourself]. grin

Afam4eva, Juliusmalema

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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by TAO11(f): 4:56pm On Nov 29, 2020

RedboneSmith:
Great post!

Thanks for the feedback! Appreciated! grin

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by TAO11(f): 4:57pm On Nov 29, 2020*

Barbilius:
Lmao. They even drew horses there. Did Benin ever used horses? Inside a forest region? How did horses survive?

The materials from which those imaginative Benin cartoons are taken always make it clear that the cartoons do not depict the reality.

But in any case, the Binis (at some later times) did use some horses (though in very small quantity) despite the terrain — just the same way other southern Nigeria cultures use it even from earlier times.

Contrary to popular long-held sweeping assumptions, many scattered pieces of evidence now strongly indicate that horses were in use in the forest region of southern Nigeria.

One of such early evidence is the example of a terracotta figure of a horse’s head among the Ife terra-cotta corpus which have been placed by the “thermo” technique somewhere between c.1000 CE and c.1200 CE. Refer to figure (c) in the embedded images below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12707846_5ea2df6444de4525a156a5265ed992b5_jpeg_jpege34a5d687d1824516f4f7f544b286474
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12707847_222b905fb73e4a30a5a4196672d85fcc_jpeg_jpegf91671739f5eed53f265fcdadc1e03a7

Furthermore, the Ife ‘bronze’ corpus feature a ‘bronze’ figure of a horseman riding on a horse as may be seen in figure (e) of the embedded image above.

Moreover, the Igbo-Ukwu ‘bronze’ corpus also feature a ‘bronze’ figure of a horseman riding on a horse as may be seen in the embedded image below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12763065_fd3bef0420314f94a6cd2097caf34bc9_jpeg_jpeg1a6a88ea964b7e415536f59c575836a2

Even the newcomer Benin ‘bronze’ corpus also feature a figure of a horseman riding on a horse as have already been shown on this thread.

I should mention here that one key interpretation offered by ~~the Yorubas~~ [sorry] art historians to this particular Benin artifact is that it depicts the Ife messenger who brought the knowledge of bronze casting to the people of Benin.

Other body of evidence which points strongly to the use of horses in the southern Nigeria forest region, even as early as (if not earlier than) the 10th century include:

(A) The body of strongly held ancient Yoruba traditions one of which makes mention of horses in at least one verse of Odu-Ifa.

(B) A strongly held body of Ife royal traditions which is very unambiguous in its description of the significant role horses played in early Ife’s long-distance trade.

(C) Ancient shrines in various parts of Yorubaland containing sculpture of deities riding on horse back.

One example of this is in Ife — deep inside the Oranmiyan grove is a station (from which the public eyes is barred) wherein resides a stone sculpture of a deity (Oranmiyan himself) riding on a horse back.

(D) The southern Ekiti proverb which states that: “anyone who desires to own a horse must buy one from heaven through Ife”.

This suggest that not only were horses present and in use in early Ife, Ife also appears from this proverb to have had a monopoly of horse sale — at least in Yorubaland.

Cheers!
cc: LegendHero, macof, Juliusmalema, Afam4eva, macof, gomojam, scholes0, Barbilius, babtoundey, Balogunodua, RuggedSniper, RedboneSmith

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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 5:14pm On Nov 29, 2020

TAO11:
Yes, they did — the materials from which those imaginative cartoons of Benin are taken always make it clear that the cartoons do not depict the reality.

Why benins are attacking with fact youre attacking with hate

Cant you see, if it was a real life battle your head would have been chopped off,

TAO11 the moremi of the 21st century,
Your brothers have accepted the truth but you my friend is still fighting it, causing more damages to your people

Lets tske a look at it how many of your brothers came out to contribute, all they did was having the benins banned at a time, they had to let go

Because they know they had lost

We fucking ruled and conquered you lot in the past and yet we are doing it again on net

Just go and get a life

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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 5:19pm On Nov 29, 2020

Despite your obsession with benins, and how you write on how to know your enemies, yet we are still beating you at it

Do know how many things you made me know about my history and yet tue more you reveal it with the intention to use it against us, we later know the truth and backfires against you

You're disgrace

Your obsession is a waste if nothing tangible can come out of it

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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Nobody: 5:40pm On Nov 29, 2020

gregyboy:
Despite your obsession with benins, and how you write on how to know your enemies, yet we are still beating you at it

Do know how many things you made me know about my history and yet tue more you reveal it with the intention to use it against us, we later know the truth and backfires against you

You're disgrace

Your obsession is a waste if nothing tangible can come out of it

Please, make a thread on yoruba history withe all the proofs which were exposed here.
just to expose these fraudsters for what they are

davidmarker2:
Guys, use the parts of the videos which are referenced.
This guy has already done the job.
I don't need to get myself tired.
I can go back to writing my paper.

Perharps it is time to make a topic on yoruba true history with references such as in the videos.
Also add all the proofs I gave.
The yoruba don't like history, they are interested in destroying history, not discovering it.
True history puts them to shame, so they must destroy it and claim other people's history.
You must show them their true history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llporKrPsbU&t=1662s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2hU-ibkPfg

Etinosa1234
AreaFada2
Samuk
Valirex
Davidnazee
gregyboy

2 Likes

Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Nobody: 5:43pm On Nov 29, 2020

davidmarker2:
So what did we learn today:

1) who was the first ooni of ife to copy the word Oba into his title: adesoji aderemi.
He also created a beaded crown as a way to copy the benin crown. (the fake crown in the picture below)

2) there is no such thing as Edo, igbo or yoruba etymology. Anybody using such as argument is either intellectually bankrupt either morally bankrupt, anyways his argument is trash.

3) the yoruba have a habbit of copying other people's cultures:

a) they first copied the word "sir" which is a mark of british nobility: ooni of ife, sir adesoji.
b) after some time they changed that borrowed word for an other borrowed word "Oba" the title of the King of benin: it then became "ooni of ife, oba adesoji"
c) adesoji also imitated the benin crown
d) the current crown worn by the ooni of ife is an imitation of a statue which was found in ife
e) the current dress of the ooni of ife is an imitation of the royal uniform of the king of the ashanti.

4) Benin has a true history, ife has fairytales.
5) benin has architecture, ife has fairytales of rambo/oduduwa dropping from the sky in egypt strait into ife with a golden parachute/chain.
6) Benin actually fought a war against britain, ife once again has fairytales of great warriors
7) Benin city got burnt into ashes, ife didn't yet no architecture, nothing to show in ife.
8 ) at this point it feels like a big insult to even dare pronounce benin and ife in the same sentence in anybody's dream.
indeed, ife remains a village, a make-belief rubbish elevated by the invaders becuase the ooni of ife was a backstabbing traitor to the cause the black race. The ooni of ife served the british instead of fighting the british, coward if you ask me.

Sayonara

1 Like

Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by TAO11(f): 5:49pm On Nov 29, 2020

davidmarker2:
So what did we learn today:

Well, we’ve learnt that suicide is loading in Benin Kingdom today.

who was the first ooni of ife to copy the word Oba into his title: adesoji aderemi.

Well, on this same thread we’ve already seen written evidence of “Oba” usage among the Yorubas — some going back to the year 1845.

The closest the Benin usage came so far is 1863.

Moreover, linguistics evidence have already been adduced on this same thread to establish that the Binis borrowed “Oba” from the Yorubas.

He also created a beaded crown as a way to copy the Benin crown. (the fake crown in the picture below)

Well I understand your desperation, but guess what: No Benin crown comes close in any way shape or form to any Ife crown.

The closest which one of the Benin crowns came (the tall one) was that it looked like the signature tall crown of other Yoruba kingdoms (excluding Ife) called Ade-Nla.

Moreover, if your claim was that the Ife kingdom had more than one type of crown, that’s factual. cheesy

In fact, the crowns are almost innumerable, just as the Binis have more than one as well — two examples (of the Binis’) of which may be seen at this link:

https://www.nairaland.com/6234931/why-ikwerres-not-igbo-logic/20#96543761

there is no such thing as Edo, igbo or yoruba etymology. Anybody using such as argument is either intellectually bankrupt either morally bankrupt, anyways his argument is trash

This is a false statement which you’ve made here without a shred of evidence.

You have simply peddled this falsehood in the hope that people will swallow it without asking for evidence.

the yoruba have a habbit of copying other people's cultures:

Interesting! Let’s hear it.

a) they first copied the word "sir" which is a mark of british nobility: ooni of ife, sir adesoji.

Haha!

Insecure Bini Liar: Look, the Ooni of Ife uses “Sir” instead of “Oba”

Sane Person: In what capacity did he use the designation “Sir”? Is it with respect to his traditional stool?

Insecure Bini Liar: [scratches his bald head and goes] Well, that was in his capacity as a politician and governor of Western Nigeria

Sane Person: Why then did you post this when you already know it is nonsense?
——-—

Moreover, I would have thought you should know that Nigeria was a British colony.

And that certain British titles were conferred on certain distinguished public office holders.

One of such distinguished individuals was the then Ooni of Ife. At the time, he was the Governor of the Nigerian Western Nigeria.

Other Nigerians who have been conferred similar the honor are:
Sir Ahmadi Bello; Sir Herbert Macaulay; Alhaji Sir Abubakr’s Tafawa Balewa to name a few.

b) after some time they changed that borrowed word for an other borrowed word "Oba" the title of the King of Benin: it then became "ooni of ife, oba adesoji"

Well, as the written evidence have shown so far on this thread; your base level of reasoning should have permitted you to conclude that:

The Yorubas have been using the word “Oba” decades before the Binis would first use it — 1845 (Yoruba) Vs. 1863 (Benin).

c) adesoji also imitated the Benin crown

This has already been demonstrated in this same comment to be a deluded falsehood.

d) the current crown worn by the ooni of ife is an imitation of a statue which was found in ife

Interesting! An ancient Ife crown is modeled after a more ancient Ife sculpture. So? cheesy

Hehehe!

e) the current dress of the ooni of ife is an imitation of the royal uniform of the king of the Ashanti

Oh, I have an idea!

What about ‘the current dress of the Ashanti king is an imitation of the Ife king’s’?

In fact, this is more tenable since a Ghanaian subgroup claimed to have originated from Ife considering the testimony of the then Supreme King of the Ga people — The Ga Matse, King Nii Adama Latse

4) Benin has a true history, ife has fairytales.
5) benin has architecture, ...

6) Benin actually fought a war against britain, ife once again has fairytales of great warriors

7) Benin city got burnt into ashes, ife didn't yet no architecture, nothing to show in ife.
8 ) at this point it feels like a big insult to even dare pronounce benin and ife in the same sentence in anybody's dream.
indeed, ife remains a village, a make-belief rubbish elevated by the invaders becuase the ooni of ife was a backstabbing traitor to the cause the black race. The ooni of ife served the british instead of fighting the british, coward if you ask me.Sayonara

In “Ibn Battûta’s 1352 Voyages to Asia and Africa, ... we learn that southwest of the Mâlli (Mali) kingdom lies a country called Yoûfi (Ife) that is one of the “most considerable countries of the Soudan [governed by a]…souverain [who] is one of the greatest kings”.*

“Battuta’s description of Yoûfi* (Ife) as a country that “No white man can enter…because the negros will kill him before he arrives”* is consistent with the ritual primacy long associated with Ife, due perhaps to its mercantile strength (glass beads, iron and probably textiles).

Among the latter items seem to have been not only cotton and raphia cloth but also silk textiles fashioned from local worms. The latter suggests that in the twelfth through fifteenth centuries, Ife was part of the famous East-West silk road. This is one of many indicators that Ife was part of the larger global trading network. The need to control related goods (and technologies) is in part what gave Ife and its rulers their unique associations with secrecy and danger.”

~ Reference: Ibn Battuta’s 1352 Voyage as cited in Suzanne Preston Blier’s “Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba: Ife History, Power and Identity, c.1300”, Cambridge University Press, 2015, p. 28.

At this time when Ibn Battuta visited West Africa in the 1300s and documented about Ife, there was no kingdom called Benin worth noting.

You know why? Ife was blowing. The elephant and its child doesn’t blow at the same time.

Erin kii fon, ki omo re naa fon. grin

ife has fairytales of rambo/oduduwa dropping from the sky in egypt strait into ife with a golden parachute/chain.

Till date I’m still yet to get an answer on where the the ancestors of Bini people and their Kings’ progenitors descended from. Is it?:

(A) Ife according to the “official” Benin account.

(B) Heaven via chains according to the Benin mythological account.

(C) Egypt according to Egharevba’s 1952 edition.

(D) The last born child of God Almighty (and his wife) according to Omonoba Erediauwa

(E) All of the above.

Please help, I really need to find out the correct answer.
.
.
.
It appears you’re disgruntled because there are no more gullible customers for your Benin lies on Nairaland, therefore ... E PAIN AM Die

4 Likes 2 Shares

Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by babtoundey(m): 6:07pm On Nov 29, 2020

TAO11:
Benin don cast Evil Laughter!

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12300045_1180859311783653img20190722154954jpegb78bac5c83a42178910da3de9aa62adbjpegjpeg9cfba2c96c509f82646e09ea44461ee6_jpeg_jpegd2120de126612f0fe3ddadd01b9c1d3b
.
.
Watch the Omonoba n’Edo talk about how and when the Oba-ship was FIRST established in Benin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-q_F2zch8M

Afam4eva

Ha! Oba is a liar and a betrayal for confirming obaship started with Oranmiyan, for admitting there was ever an Oranmiyan, for confirming Oranmiyan conquered igodomigodo and established a foreign political system and for insisting that only the children and grandchildren of oduduwa of Ife rule the kingdom of Benin. All his traditional chiefs, the illustrious sons of Edo like Adam Oshiomole, Odigie Oyegun and other entourages of the oba are psycoohants for saying nothing while the Oba debased the Benin stool and elevated that of the Oduduwa and by insisting that the Benin kingdom started from and was instituted by Oranmiyan, the child of oduduwa. We will not believe the oba. He is selling us cheap. he doesn't know what history is. Instead we will believe the faction of online miscreants that claim there was never Eweka, there was never Oranmiyan in Benin and there was never Ife-Benin relationship. We are determined to follow and listen to faction of online nutcases.

In this video, I notice how exciting and proud Fashola, Ooni, Aregbesola, Ajimobi and other Yoruba feel. Aregbesola could not even conceal his pride as the Oba read out the greatness of Oduduwa and the exploits of Oranmiyan in Benin.

10 Likes 3 Shares

Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Nobody: 6:10pm On Nov 29, 2020

yoruba collectif hallucination, you guys are on some cheap drugs, you best throw away. Your "tribe" was created in 1808 by some white men whom your ancestors called "master".

Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by babtoundey(m): 6:25pm On Nov 29, 2020

davidmarker2:
yoruba collectif hallucination, you guys are on some cheap drugs, you best throw away. Your "tribe" was created in 1808 by some white men whom your ancestors called "master".

The account of the Oba from the video shared abive said otherwise. The Oba we know not one unschooled and untutored nonentity.

If you must call the oba a lair present your fact and evidence. Reeling out dates and uncorraborated statement doesn't make you look smart. It mocks your sanity. Prove the Oba wrong before you prove us wrong.

2 Likes

Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by TAO11(f): 6:27pm On Nov 29, 2020

babtoundey:
Ha! Oba is a liar and a betrayal for confirming obaship started with Oranmiyan, for admitting there was ever an Oranmiyan, for confirming Oranmiyan conquered igodomigodo and established a foreign political system and for insisting that only the children and grandchildren of oduduwa of Ife rule the kingdom of Benin. All his traditional chiefs, the illustrious sons of Edo like Adam Oshiomole, Odigie Oyegun and other entourages of the oba are psycoohants for saying nothing while the Oba debased the Benin stool and elevated that of the Oduduwa and by insisting that the Benin kingdom started from and was instituted by Oranmiyan, the child of oduduwa. We will not believe the oba. He is selling us cheap. he doesn't know what history is. Instead we will believe the faction of online miscreants that claim there was never Eweka, there was never Oranmiyan in Benin and there was never Ife-Benin relationship. We are determined to follow and listen to faction of online nutcases.

In this video, I notice how exciting and proud Fashola, Ooni, Aregbesola, Ajimobi and other Yoruba feel. Aregbesola could not even conceal his pride as the Oba read out the greatness of Oduduwa and the exploits of Oranmiyan in Benin.

Hahaha! The Oba of Benin is truly a sellout for confirming the beginning of Benin Oba-ship — as to when it scrapped the Ogiso-ship.

But you’re wicked sha! I hope you know. grin

3 Likes

Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Nobody: 6:39pm On Nov 29, 2020

babtoundey:
The account of the Oba from the video shared abive said otherwise. The Oba we know not one unschooled and untutored nonentity.

If you must call the oba a lair present your fact and evidence. Reeling out dates and uncorraborated statement doesn't make you look smart. It mocks your sanity. Prove the Oba wrong before you prove us wrong.

Actually the Oba of Benin said "we believe oduduwa was the son of the king of Benin who ran away and oranmiyan is his son who came back"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-pI7jliNOQ

Anyways, all these are fairytales.

The truth is your tribe was created in 1808; you have no history, all the proofs are provided here. Stop playing blind.

Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Balogunodua(m): 6:39pm On Nov 29, 2020

TAO11:
The materials from which those imaginative Benin cartoons are taken always make it clear that the cartoons do not depict the reality.

But in any case, the Binis (at some later times) did use some horses (though in very small quantity) despite the terrain — just the same way other southern Nigeria cultures use it even from earlier times.

Contrary to popular long-held sweeping assumptions, many scattered pieces of evidence now strongly indicate that horses were in use in the forest region of southern Nigeria.

One of such early evidence is the example of a terracotta figure of a horse’s head among the Ife terra-cotta corpus which have been placed by the “thermo” technique somewhere between c.1000 CE and c.1200 CE. Refer to figure (c) in the embedded images below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12707846_5ea2df6444de4525a156a5265ed992b5_jpeg_jpege34a5d687d1824516f4f7f544b286474
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12707847_222b905fb73e4a30a5a4196672d85fcc_jpeg_jpegf91671739f5eed53f265fcdadc1e03a7

Furthermore, the Ife ‘bronze’ corpus feature a ‘bronze’ figure of a horseman riding on a horse as may be seen in figure (e) of the embedded image above.

Moreover, the Igbo-Ukwu ‘bronze’ corpus also feature a ‘bronze’ figure of a horseman riding on a horse as may be seen in the embedded image below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12763065_fd3bef0420314f94a6cd2097caf34bc9_jpeg_jpeg1a6a88ea964b7e415536f59c575836a2

Even the newcomer Benin ‘bronze’ corpus also feature a figure of a horseman riding on a horse as have already been shown on this thread.

I should mention here that one key interpretation offered by ~~the Yorubas~~ [sorry] art historians to this particular Benin artifact is that it depicts the Ife messenger who brought the knowledge of bronze casting to the people of Benin.

Other body of evidence which points strongly to the use of horses in the southern Nigeria forest region, even as early as (if not earlier than) the 10th century include:

(A) The body of strongly held ancient Yoruba traditions one of which makes mention of horses in at least one verse of Odu-Ifa.

(B) A strongly held body of Ife royal traditions which is very unambiguous in its description of the significant role horses played in early Ife’s long-distance trade.

(C) Ancient shrines in various parts of Yorubaland containing sculpture of deities riding on horse back.

One example of this is in Ife — deep inside the Oranmiyan grove is a station (from which the public eyes is barred) wherein resides a stone sculpture of a deity (Oranmiyan himself) riding on a horse back.

(D) The southern Ekiti proverb which states that: “anyone who desires to own a horse must buy one from heaven through Ife”.

This suggest that not only was horses known present and in use in early Ife, Ife also appear to have had a monopoly of its sale — at least in Yorubaland.

Cheers!
cc: LegendHero, macof, Juliusmalema, Afam4eva, macof, gomojam, scholes0, Barbilius, babtoundey, Balogunodua

You tewmuch cheesy

Waiting for my Benin brodas to come up with their version of Benin going to Mali and conquering it to acquire horses and selling it to Oyo and Ife grin

1 Like

Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by samuk: 6:48pm On Nov 29, 2020

davidmarker2:
Actually the Oba of Benin said "we believe oduduwa was the son of the king of Benin who ran away and oranmiyan is his son who came back"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-pI7jliNOQ

Anyways, all these are fairytales.

The truth is your tribe was created in 1808; you have no history, all the proofs are provided here. Stop playing blind.

The Yoruba always like to skip the part oba of Benin said Oranmiyan was a Benin. He said it in front of the Ooni and other traditional rulers. This is not the Oba of Benin to say so, his even went further to say Oduduwa himself was a Benin prince. If they are going to qoute the Oba of Benin in their defence of Benin/Ife relationship, they should qoute him properly.

Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by TAO11(f): 6:49pm On Nov 29, 2020

Balogunodua:
You tewmuch

Waiting for my Benin brodas to come up with their version of Benin going to Mali and conquering it to acquire horses and selling it to Oyo and Ife

Hahaha!

True! You can always trust them to return here with “tales by moonlight”. grin

2 Likes

Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by TAO11(f): 6:50pm On Nov 29, 2020*

davidmarker2:
Actually the Oba of Benin said "we believe oduduwa was the son of the king of Benin who ran away and oranmiyan is his son who came back"

samuk:
The Yoruba always like to skip the part oba Benin said Oranmiyan was a Benin. He said it in front of the Ooni and other traditional rulers. This is not the Oba of Benin to say so, his even went further to say Oduduwa himself was a Benin prince. If they are going to qoute the Oba of Benin in their defence of Benin/Ife relationship, they should qoute him properly.

Well, the historians insist that THAT SPECIFIC PART (of Oduduwa allegedly being a Bini) is a fraudulent fiction fabricated by some Binis in the 1970s out of their strong feeling of inferiority complex.

Yes, the historians said exactly that! While they (the historians) upheld the “official” Benin account which simply states that foreign-IFE was the FATHER of Benin’s monarchy via a Yoruba man, Oranmiyan! FULL STOP! cheesy

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12300045_1180859311783653img20190722154954jpegb78bac5c83a42178910da3de9aa62adbjpegjpeg9cfba2c96c509f82646e09ea44461ee6_jpeg_jpegd2120de126612f0fe3ddadd01b9c1d3b

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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by samuk: 6:53pm On Nov 29, 2020

TAO11:
Because historians insist that that specific part is a fraudulent nonsense fabricated in the 1970s.

Just the way other historians who couldn't find historical proof in the first 400 years of Benin history to back up the claim believe the entire story is fairytales. Unproven legends and myths of history.

It's now up to you to show us eyewitness historical accounts earlier than the 1800s.

Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Balogunodua(m): 6:58pm On Nov 29, 2020

TAO11:
Hahaha!

True! You can always trust them to return here with “tales by moonlight”.

It's their life work to twist anything twistable cheesy

from their imaginary Benin empire to Benin birthed Ife grin

forming Mr. French, Mr.Italian to Mr. London etc.... grin

Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by TAO11(f): 7:01pm On Nov 29, 2020*

samuk:
[s]Just the way other historians who couldn't find historical proof in the first 400 years of Benin history to back up the claim believe the entire story is fairytales. Unproven legends and myths of history. It's now up to you to show us eyewitness historical accounts earlier than the 1800s. [/s]

You mean the same historians (and eyewitness account) who couldn’t find historical proof in the first 400 years to back up your daddies, such as: Ewuare I, Eweka I, and many more of your daddies??

Hence, your daddies are fictional cartoons? grin

Just asking for a Bini friend! cheesy

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12300045_1180859311783653img20190722154954jpegb78bac5c83a42178910da3de9aa62adbjpegjpeg9cfba2c96c509f82646e09ea44461ee6_jpeg_jpegd2120de126612f0fe3ddadd01b9c1d3b

Anyways, those proof were found as you’ve been educated on this thread with an example of an ‘bronze’ find of your c.1600 Oba in IFE cheesy

(See: Willett for example).

And guess what, all earlier positions became even more update. Therefore, circumstantial unavailability of a writing is not absolute proof of absence of evidence

You should hurry up and enroll in a class on logical fallacies. grin

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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Nobody: 7:06pm On Nov 29, 2020

davidmarker2:
Guys, use the parts of the videos which are referenced.
This guy has already done the job.
I don't need to get myself tired.
I can go back to writing my paper.

Perharps it is time to make a topic on yoruba true history with references such as in the videos.
Also add all the proofs I gave.
The yoruba don't like history, they are interested in destroying history, not discovering it.
True history puts them to shame, so they must destroy it and claim other people's history.
You must show them their true history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llporKrPsbU&t=1662s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2hU-ibkPfg

Etinosa1234
AreaFada2
Samuk
Valirex
Davidnazee
gregyboy

samuk:
You are right, a thread putting Yoruba history in proper perspective will be great.

Starting from the pre-Yoruba southwest independent tribal villages that fought and sold themselves into slavery to the creation of Yoruba in 1808 to accommodate indigenous tribes of now south western Nigeria and former freed slaves from Europe who were not all originally from the Niger area.

Some of these former slaves were from across Africa..dahomey, sierra leone etc.

The contributions of some of these free slaves who were missionary agents with western education on the creation of a common Yoruba language through the early Yoruba dictionary and bible.

The indigenous tribes of the south west that were under Benin kingdom in pre Yoruba time should be separated from the Yoruba slave confederacy with the indigenous tribes that was created in the 1800s.

The Oduduwa, Oranmiyan and Ife political creation to give them common heritage.

The attempt to steal Benin history to give the authenticity, legitimacy and extend the history of Yoruba earlier than 1800s.

The Yoruba have been moulding their history up to confuse less informed present day Nigerians.

Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by TAO11(f): 7:08pm On Nov 29, 2020

davidmarker2:
So what did we learn today:

Well, we’ve learnt that suicide is loading in Benin Kingdom today.

who was the first ooni of ife to copy the word Oba into his title: adesoji aderemi.

He also created a beaded crown as a way to copy the Benin crown. (the fake crown in the picture below)

there is no such thing as Edo, igbo or yoruba etymology. Anybody using such as argument is either intellectually bankrupt either morally bankrupt, anyways his argument is trash

This is a false statement which you’ve made here without a shred of evidence.

You have simply peddled this falsehood in the hope that people will swallow it without asking for evidence.

the yoruba have a habbit of copying other people's cultures:

Interesting! Let’s hear it.

a) they first copied the word "sir" which is a mark of british nobility: ooni of ife, sir adesoji.

b) after some time they changed that borrowed word for an other borrowed word "Oba" the title of the King of Benin: it then became "ooni of ife, oba adesoji"

c) adesoji also imitated the Benin crown

This has already been demonstrated in this same comment to be a deluded falsehood.

d) the current crown worn by the ooni of ife is an imitation of a statue which was found in ife

Interesting! An ancient Ife crown is modeled after a more ancient Ife sculpture. So? cheesy

Hehehe!

e) the current dress of the ooni of ife is an imitation of the royal uniform of the king of the Ashanti

4) Benin has a true history, ife has fairytales.
5) benin has architecture, ...

6) Benin actually fought a war against britain, ife once again has fairytales of great warriors

7) Benin city got burnt into ashes, ife didn't yet no architecture, nothing to show in ife.
8 ) at this point it feels like a big insult to even dare pronounce benin and ife in the same sentence in anybody's dream.
indeed, ife remains a village, a make-belief rubbish elevated by the invaders becuase the ooni of ife was a backstabbing traitor to the cause the black race. The ooni of ife served the british instead of fighting the british, coward if you ask me.Sayonara

ife has fairytales of rambo/oduduwa dropping from the sky in egypt strait into ife with a golden parachute/chain.

3 Likes 1 Share

Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by samuk: 7:09pm On Nov 29, 2020

TAO11:
You should hurry up and enroll in a class on logical fallacies.

You already have enough students whose IQs are obviously below yours.

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