₦airaland Forum

TAO11:
Just as humans grow to become independent (and free of) their parents control; so do many kingdoms also grow to become independent of their parent kingdom.

The fact that the Oyo and Ijebu-Ode kingdoms later in the course of history became independent kingdoms in their own rights does not mean that each of them was never initially descended from some kingdom — in this case the Ife kingdom.

To buttress this further, the attachment below shows pages from the typescript of the proceedings of the 31st March 1937 “Conference of Yoruba Chiefs”.

In this conference, the Alaafin of Oyo and the Awujale of Ijebu-Ode were not only present but also conceded to the declaration that their respective kingdoms initially descended from the Ife kingdom. See attached:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13005881_7ac037b1813f4cda979e313aad0450a3_jpeg_jpeg33b212c8164002010fa873e3e1bcdf89
www.nairaland.com/attachments/13005882_f30457e69fc64a1284d446f97bedc0c7_jpeg_jpege403908d96fdfa4cb59b80075cdb1ec7

This fact here as expounded recognized in this attached typescript (i.e. the fact that the kingdoms of the Alaafin and Awajale among others were originally descended from the Ife kingdom before their later independence) is obviously confirmed by the much earlier fact that the then Alaafin (and other Yoruba kings) had to live outside the walls of their respective palaces in honor of the fact that the Ooni left his palace for a meeting in Lagos.

No you’re not wrong. You’re right on this. However, that Ooni was also right on this.

That Ooni’s listing as contained in the document you’re alluding to was simply to debunk the Elepe’s claim that Ife directly authorized him to wear a crown.

The Ooni wasn’t saying that all Yoruba kingdoms got their crowns directly from Ife.

We know for a fact that many Yoruba kingdoms actually descended not directly from Ife but directly from another Yoruba kingdom.

Such descendant Yoruba kingdom often got their right to crowns not directly from Ife but via the actual kingdom they had directly descended from.

A case in point is the Eko kingdom about which the list given by that Ooni have also being misunderstood by the author of our OP’s content.

Eko is omitted from that Ooni’s list does not mean that the kings of Eko aren’t coronated with a crown. Yes, they are coronated with a crown as my attachment here shows.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13005855_93bc31b4bdcb4d5cba64a59661c10078_jpeg_jpeg7733eb0f9e9a5fbaf3cacd08449b0648

What the omission does mean instead is that the Eko kingdom got its primary/coronation crown not directly from Ife but via another Yoruba kingdom — not from Benin also, as this primary/coronation crown clearly shows here.
—————————

The following is the background to the Akarigbo vs Elepe tussle:

The Elepe’s district is a territory established within the Remo kingdom of Ishagamu (the Akarigbo’s kingdom) ruled by the Akarigbo who also the paramount king of all Ijebu-Remo kingdoms.

So, only two kings could possibly authorize the Elepe to wear a crown, viz. the Akarigbo of Ijebu-Remo, or Ife directly.

The Elepe was challenged by the Akarigbo himself. This thus shows that the Akarigbo didn’t authorize him to wear a crown.

The Elepe’s last straw was obviously to claim that Ife gave him the direct right — a claim which the Ooni debunked with his list.

Undisputably fatanstic proofs.


kiss the truth!

Mrbillionaire:
Is there any area Benidiots are successful in? the land is a cursed land. I'm not surprised their Oba curses a lot, he has used his curses to destroy his subjects.

Benidiots are doomed for life. Nothing good can ever come out of Benidiots

definition of the verb "désigner" from an actual french dictionnary:

https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/d%C3%A9signer/24465

For any person with half a brain, this is what you have:

a people who don't speak a word of french debating a french citizen (who writes books in french and who speaks english and who took trnaslation classes) about tranlations of french sentences. I know, it is absurd, but not to these guys.

TAO11:
Wonderful!!

May be should you should proceed now to inform us of the reason why the then Ooni of Ife was visited in Ife, in the early 1930s, by your Omonoba Akenzua II after he had just ascended the Benin throne.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13001549_8542decf4d954a1b907e0beb2d74ac8a_jpeg_jpeg927b109065011da3429151893c998900

That is just a photo which doesn't prove several things:

1) the location being ife is not proven
2) the date the photo was taken is not proven
3) the reason Oba Akenzua II and adesoji aderemi were in that location is also not proven

All you say is just a bunch of self serving lies.

Given the looks of both Oba Akenzua II and that of adesoji aderemi, the photo doesn't seem to have been taken in the 1930's. below is a photo of Oba Akenzua II and adesoji aderemi in 1950 and in Lagos. The photo you posted is most likeley from the 1950's and probably taken in lagos.

Tao the fool, I can see you are watching, instead of replying. This is your new/old tactic, just waiting for me to deactivate my account, then you pretend to reply.

people, you see I have been educating this tao whom some yoruba seem to think is smart.
tao is basically a pretender who uses good quality english (though she often doesn't understand the most basic english terms) to appear smart, but she is incredibly dumb. Don't confuse rhetoric with intelligence.
through the years I have seen tao and grow from extremely uneducated (believing Benin bronzes were dug up as opposed to being looted from the imperial palace by british soldiers, believing Obaseki was once king, believing that eyewitnesse accounts meant that the eyewitnesses of things which happened 500 years ago are still alive) to a little bit less uneducated but way better at telling lies and pretending to be smart.

tao has been exposed several times in the passed by the likes of Areafada2 and me, and Samuk and Davidnazee and so many. We noted that tao lacks basic intellect and relies extensively on google for everything. Now tao has become better at hiding this.
I also remember a time when tao didn't even know that the Oba of Benin is always the first surviving son of the previous Oba of Benin. the sheer ignorance of tao on basically anything she talks about is incredible, but she bases everything on google search" and pretends to know womething when she knows absolutely nothing and google search won't buy her common sense which she doesn't have.

I posted a video in which the oni of ife was presented as a spiritual leader by the british in 1948 and I accompanied it with a photo of the oni of ife in which the caption says "oni (chief priest) of ifa". tao ofcourse used her incredibly illogical ways which make no sense whatsoever to smear both video and photo (two independent evidences) and tao replied with her own claim that Oba Ovonramwen was a native doctor, eventhough all reports from the british soldiers who were fighting a war against Benin kept referring to Oba Ovonramwen as "the King", even precolonial photos talk about "Benin city where the King lives".

Why did Oba Ewuare II visit oni of ife ?

1) the oni of ife came to the coronation of the Oba of Benin

Date 10:09

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHXTwrJVut0


2) The Oba of Benin was trying to bring awareness about fulani herdsmen crimes in the south


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHXTwrJVut0

The oba of Benin had previously visited the sultan of sokoto, and the emir of kano and a bunch of Benin dukes as well (if my memory serves me well).

I have presented at least 10 eye-witness different made documents attesting to the fact Lagos was part of Benin empire.
I presented precolonial maps and precolonial texts made by several different eyewitnesses and seperated by sevral centuries.
each time tao and here gullible reality deniars always have one excuse or the other to doubt and to call me liar for presenting verifyable evidence written by people who saw with their own eyes. You add all those evidence to those presented by Areafada2, Davidnazee, Gregyboy, Etinosa1234 ... Still the revisionist yoruba will have reason to shout "liar", "oduduwa"...

tao, don't worry, i will soon deactivate my account so that you can come and pretend you are replying, I think somehow in your delusion you realize that even many yoruba people can see that you are spewing rubbish. You call us "lying machine", well you must be looking at a mirror.

30minutes222:
Tao the fool, I can see you are watching, instead of replying. This is your new/old tactic, just waiting for me to deactivate my account, then you pretend to reply.

people, you see I have been educating this tao whom some yoruba seem to think is smart.
tao is basically a pretender who uses good quality english (though she often doesn't understand the most basic english terms) to appear smart, but she is incredibly dumb. Don't confuse rhetoric with intelligence.
through the years I have seen tao and grow from extremely uneducated (believing Benin bronzes were dug up as opposed to being looted from the imperial palace by british soldiers, believing Obaseki was once king, believing that eyewitnesse accounts meant that the eyewitnesses of things which happened 500 years ago are still alive) to a little bit less uneducated but way better at telling lies and pretending to be smart.

tao has been exposed several times in the passed by the likes of Areafada2 and me, and Samuk and Davidnazee and so many. We noted that tao lacks basic intellect and relies extensively on google for everything. Now tao has become better at hiding this.
I also remember a time when tao didn't even know that the Oba of Benin is always the first surviving son of the previous Oba of Benin. the sheer ignorance of tao on basically anything she talks about is incredible, but she bases everything on google search" and pretends to know womething when she knows absolutely nothing and google search won't buy her common sense which she doesn't have.

Stop crying, put on your glasses and look at the crown, that's a Yoruba crown, not benin crown. Any palace a Yoruba crown adorns the king, he is a Yoruba subject.

kiss the truth!

correction of the first video:

Why did Oba Ewuare II visit oni of ife ?

1) the oni of ife came to the coronation of the Oba of Benin

Date 10:09

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd63kQUlInI


2) The Oba of Benin was trying to bring awareness about fulani herdsmen crimes in the south


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHXTwrJVut0

The only reason I delete my accounts is because nairaland and most social media are a drug, I want to quit this addiction. What I would want is to never post on nairaland again, I need to archieve that. Only fools don't realize that all this is a huge waste of time and a waste of our best years, we will all get old. I think I can archieve way more than spending so much time on nairaland discussing with deluded yoruba reality deniars whom are not even as smart as my most stupid student.

Signed: prolog31, historyworld, wtf77, sanity ...

It is good you realized that lying is more harmful to your old age.
bye Felicia.

kiss the truth!

Why did Oba Ewuare II visit oni of ife ?

1) the oni of ife came to the coronation of the Oba of Benin

Date 10:09

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHXTwrJVut0

2) The Oba of Benin was trying to bring awareness about fulani herdsmen crimes in the south


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHXTwrJVut0

False fraudulent reasons as expected. I guess his ancestors also came because of herdsmen.

The reason of herdsmen came up during his visit to the Office of the Osun State Governor.

Check out the video below for one of his reason why he visited the Ooni.

Ewuare simply came to Ife to do the same thing that his own ancestors came to do — culminating ascension rites.

Note that they always come to Ife soon after they had just been crowned king of Benin.

The Ooni’s visit to Benin, on the other hand, was not because he was just crowned king of Ife.

Rather he went to Benin, just like every Nigerian dignitary, to attend the coronation ceremony.


No Ooni of Ife visits Benin just after he had just become Ooni.

It only happens with the Benin kings. They must visit Ife just after they had ascended the Benin throne.

Wonderful!!

May be should you should proceed now to inform us of the reason why the then Ooni of Ife was visited in Ife, in the early 1930s, by your Omonoba Akenzua II after he had just ascended the Benin throne.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13001549_8542decf4d954a1b907e0beb2d74ac8a_jpeg_jpeg927b109065011da3429151893c998900


After that, proceed to explain why the [same] Ooni of Ife was visited in Ife, in the late 1970s, by your Omonoba Erediauwa also after he had just ascended the Benin throne.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13001550_99016c282e9b484dae2b8c82f05edf11_jpeg_jpeg4946da521acbba55454f095d95999f8a


After that, proceed to explain why the present Ooni of Ife was visited in Ife, in the year 2016, by your present Omonoba Ewuare II also after he had just ascended the Benin throne.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13001551_ab64cfb09a1c4615898da3319be86a8e_jpeg_jpegdbba1b647a22ec3632f53f5210035f24


Since you now have no problem with the reports of Edo journalists, then you must have no problem with the reports of a Channels TV who hinted on some of the events that went down during Ewuare’s visit to the Ooni just after Ewuare’s coronation.

Check out the following Channels TV News report of the homage-visit of Omonoba Ewuare II.

Go to time-stamp 0:24 to 0:34, and you would find the following words:

“...his first port of call is the palace of the Ooni of Ife, Oba Adeyeye Ogunwusi — where he also paid homage to all Benin kings believed to have been buried there.”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZhU2AmpvJk

NB: Channels TV were present on ground. They weren’t merely reporting from the comfort of their office based on hearsay.

This simple fact thus clarifies the difference between the Benin kings’ visits to Ife and to other personalities in the country.

The other visits are apparently and merely for face-saving purposes, no homage is required in the other visits — or is it?

Cheers!

TimeManager, Christistruth00,

thatigboman:
u have been making unsubstantiated claims all along. How did landlocked oyo have sea pirates?
Aworis are not yoruba. And lagos belongs to bini. Eko in bini language means "war camp"

Badagry and Porto Novo were Under the Alaafin of Oyo.

They were Part of the Oyo Empire

The Oyos fully understood the Economic Significance of Sea Ports and by the late 17th Century the Alaafin had Secured Badagry and Porto Novo for Oyo.
The Alaafin of Oyo had taken both Ports from the Dahomians as a Military ally of the Eguns.

Aare Oona KaKanfo Oyabi was from Porto Novo (New Port) in Benin Republic which Yoruba called Ajase

The Aare Oona Kakanfo that Succeeded him was one of his Warlords and was also Stationed at Porto Novo (Ajase)

Awori Yoruba are descended from Olofin Ogunfunminire from Ile Ife , Grandson of Oduduwa


Eko was how Ijebu Pronounced Ereko after Ereko Market on the Lagos Island , That was where King Kosoko's Slave and European goods Markets were Located it is still there today.

Eko or Ereko means Field in Yoruba

and Ereko Ile describes an Island.

TAO11:
False fraudulent reasons as expected. I guess his ancestors also came because of herdsmen.

The reason of herdsmen came up during his visit to the Office of the Osun State Governor.

Check out the video below for one of his reason why he visited the Ooni.

Ewuare simply came to Ife to do the same thing that his own ancestors came to do — culminating ascension rites.

Note that they always come to Ife soon after they had just been crowned king of Benin.

The Ooni’s visit to Benin, on the other hand, was not because he was just crowned king of Ife.

Rather he went to Benin, just like every Nigerian dignitary, to attend the coronation ceremony.


No Ooni of Ife visits Benin just after he had just become Ooni.

It only happens with the Benin kings. They must visit Ife just after they had ascended the Benin throne.

Wonderful!!

May be should you should proceed now to inform us of the reason why the then Ooni of Ife was visited in Ife, in the early 1930s, by your Omonoba Akenzua II after he had just ascended the Benin throne.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13001549_8542decf4d954a1b907e0beb2d74ac8a_jpeg_jpeg927b109065011da3429151893c998900


After that, proceed to explain why the [same] Ooni of Ife was visited in Ife, in the late 1970s, by your Omonoba Erediauwa also after he had just ascended the Benin throne.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13001550_99016c282e9b484dae2b8c82f05edf11_jpeg_jpeg4946da521acbba55454f095d95999f8a


After that, proceed to explain why the present Ooni of Ife was visited in Ife, in the year 2016, by your present Omonoba Ewuare II also after he had just ascended the Benin throne.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13001551_ab64cfb09a1c4615898da3319be86a8e_jpeg_jpegdbba1b647a22ec3632f53f5210035f24


Since you now have no problem with the reports of Edo journalists, then you must have no problem with the reports of a Channels TV who hinted on some of the events that went down during Ewuare’s visit to the Ooni just after Ewuare’s coronation.

Check out the following Channels TV News report of the homage-visit of Omonoba Ewuare II:

Go to time-stamp 0:24 to 0:34, and you would find the following words which will answer your foregoing two questions:

“...his first port of call is the palace of the Ooni of Ife, Oba Adeyeye Ogunwusi — where he also paid homage to all Benin kings believed to have been buried there.”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZhU2AmpvJk

This simple fact thus clarifies the difference between the Benin kings’ visits to Ife and to other personalities in the country.

The other visits are apparently and merely for face-saving purposes, no homage is required in the other visits — or is it?

Cheers!

TimeManager, Christistruth00,

This is TKO.

definition of the verb "désigner" from an actual french dictionnary:

https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/d%C3%A9signer/24465

Orisirisi, is the word designer a verb? Na wa for all these Benidiots o

TAO11:
False fraudulent reasons as expected. I guess his ancestors also came because of herdsmen.

The reason of herdsmen came up during his visit to the Office of the Osun State Governor.

Check out the video below for one of his reason why he visited the Ooni.

Ewuare simply came to Ife to do the same thing that his own ancestors came to do — culminating ascension rites.

Note that they always come to Ife soon after they had just been crowned king of Benin.

The Ooni’s visit to Benin, on the other hand, was not because he was just crowned king of Ife.

Rather he went to Benin, just like every Nigerian dignitary, to attend the coronation ceremony.


No Ooni of Ife visits Benin just after he had just become Ooni.

It only happens with the Benin kings. They must visit Ife just after they had ascended the Benin throne.

Wonderful!!

May be should you should proceed now to inform us of the reason why the then Ooni of Ife was visited in Ife, in the early 1930s, by your Omonoba Akenzua II after he had just ascended the Benin throne.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13001549_8542decf4d954a1b907e0beb2d74ac8a_jpeg_jpeg927b109065011da3429151893c998900


After that, proceed to explain why the [same] Ooni of Ife was visited in Ife, in the late 1970s, by your Omonoba Erediauwa also after he had just ascended the Benin throne.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13001550_99016c282e9b484dae2b8c82f05edf11_jpeg_jpeg4946da521acbba55454f095d95999f8a


After that, proceed to explain why the present Ooni of Ife was visited in Ife, in the year 2016, by your present Omonoba Ewuare II also after he had just ascended the Benin throne.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13001551_ab64cfb09a1c4615898da3319be86a8e_jpeg_jpegdbba1b647a22ec3632f53f5210035f24


Since you now have no problem with the reports of Edo journalists, then you must have no problem with the reports of a Channels TV who hinted on some of the events that went down during Ewuare’s visit to the Ooni just after Ewuare’s coronation.

Check out the following Channels TV News report of the homage-visit of Omonoba Ewuare II.

Go to time-stamp 0:24 to 0:34, and you would find the following words:

“...his first port of call is the palace of the Ooni of Ife, Oba Adeyeye Ogunwusi — where he also paid homage to all Benin kings believed to have been buried there.”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZhU2AmpvJk

NB: Channels TV were present on ground. They weren’t merely reporting from the comfort of their office based on hearsay.

This simple fact thus clarifies the difference between the Benin kings’ visits to Ife and to other personalities in the country.

The other visits are apparently and merely for face-saving purposes, no homage is required in the other visits — or is it?

Cheers!

TimeManager, Christistruth00,

With all Humility

Even the British know and fully understand where the Oba of Benin belongs

Christistruth00:
With all Humility

Even the British know and fully understand where the Oba of Benin belongs

That means the Alaafin is a 4th class Oba...

Wow!!!

Let me jump in a bit here.

A look at history of conquests has shown that there must be contiguousness in the line of conquests.

For example, the Roman Empire conquered the adjoining Greek and Germanic tribes before moving down south and even East.

Same with the Germans in World War 1, they conquered the Austrian and Prussians.

It can also be applied to the Fulani jihad of the 19th century, the line of conquest moved steadily down south from the north and was terminated at Osogbo.

It therefore is very highly unlikely that the Benin Empire could have conquered and taken over Lagos Island through a military conquest.

Imagine an army moving through the Ondos then to the Ijebus who are no mean warriors and then through the Egbas another warlike tribe to get to Lagos.

It's either Benin were allies with this tribes and they allowed the army free passage or the army simply swept them aside. Since there is no evidence of Benin being allies with the Ondo, Ijebu and Egba, it is safe to assume it will have been by conquering these peoples that they got to Lagos. There is no evidence of such event however.

The only possible explanation which is consistent with such cultural incubation is a migration of people for the purpose of trade. Now it is open to debate whether the island was inhabited by natives or not when the Benin first set foot there. But what is not in doubt is that the island was a bustling trading outpost.

It is thus very possible that what occurred was an acculturation of the peoples in the island and around it by the Benin traders. As for the kingship, the influence of the Benin on the kingship of Lagos Island is not in doubt. What is in doubt is the ancestry of the first king of Lagos. It is possible the king had Awori ancestry given the large population of the Aworis and was paying tribute to the Oba of Benin as one of the important trading partners of the kingdom.

By and large, the proponents of the "Binis own Lagos" mantra need to realize that it doesn't really matter whether Binis own Lagos in the past or not. As at now, the Yorubas control Lagos culturally, politically and economically and to all purpose and intent, Lagos is part and parcel of Yorubaland and even recognized so by the constitution of Nigeria. Therefore, the arguments here are purely academic and of no meaningful impact on the status of Lagos now or in the foreseeable future.

I will therefore advise them to try to dey alright las las.

Christistruth00:
With all Humility

Even the British know and fully understand where the Oba of Benin belongs

And the chief priest is in the front roll, the British know werr ehe Ooni truly belong at the chief priest sitting arrangement not that of kings

But not to stare tribal controversy he accept any sitting arrangement even if Nigeria government presents tinubu as a first class king he wont dispute it, after all, it is not his business

Hmm... Lagos the beninland

Christistruth00:


Badagry and Porto Novo were Under the Alaafin of Oyo.

They were Part of the Oyo Empire

The Oyos fully understood the Economic Significance of Sea Ports and by the late 18th Century the Alaafin had Secured Badagry and Porto Novo for Oyo.
The Alaafin of Oyo had taken both Ports from the Dahomians as a Military ally of the Eguns.

Aare Oona KaKanfo Oyabi was from Porto Novo (New Port) in Benin Republic which Yoruba called Ajase

The Aare Oona Kakanfo that Succeeded him was one of his Warlords and was also Stationed at Porto Novo (Ajase)

Awori Yoruba are descended from Olofin Ogunfunminire from Ile Ife , Grandson of Oduduwa


Eko was how Ijebu Pronounced Ereko after Ereko Market on the Lagos Island , That was where King Kosoko's Slave and European goods Markets were Located it is still there today.

Eko or Ereko means Field in Yoruba

and Ereko Ile describes an Island.

all these your Tales By Moonlight and no single literature to back them up.
How can Porto Novo be under alaafin of oyo when dahomey women overan abeokuta and your greatgrandparents ran as the feet could carry them, abandoning the wives and children and hid under olumo rock?

Fantasticcc:
Hmm... Lagos the beninland

yea, non debatable

Etinosa1234:
[s]Lol.... .. Says someone who doesn't understand clear and simple English...
Well... Read on
First of all, to designate means to choose, to appoint...
The fact that the Ijebu chose a name for it doesn't specify anywhere that it was the official name
So therefore, in that text, the author simply says
“Captain Horsely rendered it as Eco*, and that is how it was designated or chosen by the Ijebus •••”
He never mentioned that it was the official name equally accepted by the people living in Eko or the people who the land belongs to.[/s] •••

I - INTRODUCTION

(1) First of all, it is very crucial that I make it super clear that the specific land mass of our discussion is actually an island.

This fact is made clear in the notes of the German traveler (Andreas Joshua Ulsheimer) who visited the area from the year 1603.

Andreas Joshua Ulsheimer reports in his 1603-4 notes that a town “Lago” was situated “on an island”.

In present-times, this island have come to be known by the name Lagos island. Its location can be identified (as highlighted in red) in the zoomed-in map embedded below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13012539_761145ca04fb4045a00f6a846ca32721_jpeg_jpegbdabd29418754778ab185195c3cf2e9e

(2) Secondly, the actual town which Ulsheimer referred to as “Lago” did NOT occupy the whole of that island. Also, it was NOT the only town on that island.

This fact is also made clear in the same notes of Ulsheimer. The two points below each clearly establish this fact.

(A) Ulsheimer notes state that this town “Lago” [which is “surrounded by a … fence”] is, in fact, “a frontier town”.

In other words, this fenced town (Lago) lies in-between (i.e. on the border separating) two other settlements.

(B) Ulsheimer notes state that many people come to this town (Lago) not only “by water” but also “by land”.

This proves that those who came to the town (Lago) specifically “by land” could not have possibly been able to do so except that they themselves live on that same island but in a different town.

In the light of these foregoing information (which all comes from Ulsheimer’s 1603-4 notes), it becomes clear that the town “Lago” was just one of the different towns on that island.

Given the obvious fact that there are at least two other towns on that island, your repeated depiction of “Lago” as the only town on that island is terribly erroneous.

A correct depiction (based on a careful consideration of Ulsheimer’s notes) is that the town “Lago” lies on that island alongside (and in-between) two other towns on that island.

An imagery of this correct depiction of Ulsheimer’s observation is represented with my highlights in the embedded map below. The red highlight shows the town “Lago”.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13012540_3bffb7083d3d42769f93120299a7c3c0_jpeg_jpeg26ffca4bc66cab99046d060d7ecf45c3


Having clarified that the town “Lago” did not occupy the length and breadth of that island (as there were other towns on the same island), the following should now be easier for you to grasp.

II - OWNERSHIP

(1) Ulsheimer’s notes of 1603-4, which has been repeatedly cited above, make the following statement about the ownership of this town “Lago” as at the time he visited:

“Forty miles from Benin lies a large town called Lago, which also belongs to the King of Benin.”

~ Andreas Ulsheimer’s “Voyage of 1603-4”.

A statement to the same effect as the foregoing one is also found in M. d’Avezac’s “Notice Sur Le Pays Et Le People Des Yébous En Afrique“, (Paris, 1845), p. 26.

(2) However, it is not specified whether the Binis owned “Lago” town by virtue of aboriginal right, or forceful take over, or conferment.

Each of these three possibilities will be examined in turns in the comments that follow. But just before that, it is crucial that I stress again that Ulsheimer’s notes prove that there are other towns (apart from the Binis’s Lago) on that same island.

(A) Regarding aboriginal ownership, different early European sources render the indigenous name of this island [and beyond] as “Ahoni” land, or “Awani” land, or “Ahouy” land, etc.

M. d’Avezac (1845:25-26), for instance, does cite some of these early European sources which variously render the indigenous name as such -- among other close renderings of the same word.

These European renderings of the indigenous name thus agree with the multiply attested traditional account which holds strongly that the Awori people are the aboriginal owners of this island [and beyond].


In Summary:

(i) Ulsheimer’s notes remain silent on the specific nature of the Binis’s ownership of town “Lago”.

(ii) Other early European notes (and the multiply attested traditional account) inform us that the island as a whole [and beyond] is aboriginally owned by the Aworis.

To be super clear, we do NOT have a situation of contradiction here – there are no contradictions in a situation of ‘Silence vs. Information’.

And the available information shows that the Binis’s ‘ownership’ of the town “Lago” was NOT by virtue of some aboriginal right.

[Continued]

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Etinosa1234:
[s]Continued
Samuk valirex gregyboy Etrusen edeyoung Areafada2 ...
Are u guys seeing the clear double standards that Tao11 just displayed with utmost temerity
According to Tao, the word "Korame" was wholly derived from Portugal to Benin but the word "Eko" was derived from the fusion of the Dutch word "Ichoo" and a Yoruba word "Ereko".....
Tao is so desperate that she wants to put her tribe on the same level with the Europeans...
First of all, Tao, for this ur assertion, u'll have to give valid proofs that the words were merged. Do not spill rubbish and call it wise.[/s] •••

(B) What about ownership by a forceful take over?

(i) Firstly, it must be noted that Ulsheimer arrived in our region in the year 1603. Long before his arrival, the Binis were already one of the different groups residing on that island.

He met them there with an already flourishing town of their own – a town “surrounded by a strong fence”; with houses in it; etc.

This proves that, he could not have witnessed how or when the Binis originally came from Benin to settle-in into this island.

To be emphatic, his notes remain silent on how (or when) the Binis initially came to settle-in into this island.

(ii) Before proceeding any further, it is important that you’re reminded again of your erroneous and misleading description of the town “Lago”.

Your erroneous and misleading description which portrays this town as one which encompasses the whole of that island is as depicted in the outrightly wrong imagery below.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13012898_whatsappimage20210119at6_45_18am_jpeg_jpeg32b7e335ac8c18bdf372fa6565a16215

However, Ulsheimer’s notes show, instead, that the town “Lago” is one of the different towns on that island. The imagery below closely reflects his notes.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13012540_3bffb7083d3d42769f93120299a7c3c0_jpeg_jpeg26ffca4bc66cab99046d060d7ecf45c3

Having stressed that, the most that Ulsheimer’s notes show is that, as at the time he arrived at our region in 1603-4, he met the Binis already living as an armed unit, but within the four walls of their own town. He notes:

“In it [inside town Lago] live none but soldiers and four military commanders, who behave in a very stately manner.”

Firstly, Ulsheimer’s statement here shows (very plainly) that these Binis lived (NOT in another town on that island, but) within the four walls of their own town.

Secondly, nowhere in his notes is it mentioned (or even suggested) that they had always lived (since their arrival) as an armed unit. Nowhere!

Whether they had always lived as an armed unit since their arrival, or whether they only began to live in this manner years later in the course of their stay; Ulsheimer’s notes remain silent.

Having clarified this, Ulsheimer’s notes touched on their daily rituals and politics. His description, however, shows this to be an internal affair which was confined to within the four walls of their fence.

Given Ulsheimer’s deafening silence on (1) how the Binis initially came to settle-in into this island, and on (2) why they live within their fence as an armed unit in 1603-4; other materials (with such information) must be adduced.

To be super clear again, we do NOT have a situation of contradiction here – there are no contradictions in a situation of ‘Silence vs. Information’.

Having clarified that, the earliest available writings which speak on these specific questions are the records of Lagos history published by the British authorities in the years 1878, 1914, and 1929.

For instance, refer to page 43 of Sir Alan C. Burns’ “History of Nigeria”, (1929) as embedded below for the information on these two specific questions.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13012899_whatsappimage20210119at6_45_27am_jpeg_jpeg3ec5b5bf05839ba49d04cb2119bec55c

Unlike Ulsheimer’s notes which is silent on these two specific questions; the page above from a British colonial record of Lagos history provides information on these two questions.

These British records of Lagos history agree that the Binis’s ownership of their spot on that island was by virtue of conferment from the native aboriginal owners – the Awori-Yorubas.

The above attachment also provides the contextual background as to why they were living as an armed unit as at the time of Ulsheimer.

This record shows that, at some point after they already been living within their [conferred] spot on that island, they were drawn into some conflict with some towns on the “mainland”.

For the sake of completeness, I feel obliged to mention here that many, many decades after these records of Lagos history had been published by the British authorities; a new and contrary writing emerged for the first time in the 1950s – this time, from Benin City, by the Benin Chief Egharevba.

Considering the lateness of this Benin writing in comparison to the much more earlier records of Lagos history by the British authorities; Chief Egharevba’s later-day contrary writings on this specific subject are no more than reactive.

In contrast, there is NO earlier contrary writing on these two specific questions which these British records of Lagos history could have been reacting to.

These British records of Lagos history (on these specific questions) are therefore a fair documentation of the multiply attested traditional account. These are the earliest on these specific topics.

In Conclusion:
The Binis’s ownership of their specific spot on that island was by virtue of conferment from the natives – NOT by some aboriginal right, NOR by some forceful take over.


[Continued]


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Etinosa1234:
[s]Lol.... .. Says someone who doesn't understand clear and simple English...
Well... Read on
First of all, to designate means to choose, to appoint...
The fact that the Ijebu chose a name for it doesn't specify anywhere that it was the official name
So therefore, in that text, the author simply says
“Captain Horsely rendered it as Eco*, and that is how it was designated or chosen by the Ijebus •••”
He never mentioned that it was the official name equally accepted by the people living in Eko or the people who the land belongs to.
In fact, the author goes to tell us that the people who owns the land of Eko(the Benin) apply, or refer to the land as Korame... ( See below for more info abt the name Korame)..
This case is similar to the Nupe/Yoruba people... The Yoruba call the Nupe, Tapa but the INDIGENOUS people residing there call themselves Nupe
Also the Igbos call the Benin people Idu, But the Benin people refer to themselves as Benin
Now in my aforementioned examples, the names Tapa and Idu are not the official names for the Nupe or Benin people respectively rather they are names their neighbours chose or designated
So therefore, the name Eko was not the official name of the people living in the land RATHER they are names being chosen for them by their neighbours
Now... Let this info sink into u for the time being while u continue reading
Continued below.....
Now u are the ones talking abt double standards now... Very ironic [/s] •••

III - NAMES

(1) The surviving indigenous name of Lagos is spelt today (with Yoruba orthography) as Èkó.

M. d’Avezac (1845:26) gave his own spelling of this name of Lagos as Ekó. He gave no other spelling of his own.

Captain Horseley of Liverpool (1700s) gave his own spelling of this name of Lagos as Eco.

M. d’Avezac (1845:25-26) cited this spelling “Eco”. He acknowledged Captain Horseley for it.

Nowhere in M. d’Avezac (1845) was it mentioned (or even suggested) that “Eko” and “Eco” refer to different places.

The text is super clear in its context from page 25 that these two spellings refer to one and the same place — that is, Lagos.

The difference between these two [“Eco” (Horseley, 1700s) and “Ekó” (d’Avezac, 1845)] is simply as the difference between the following three:

(A) “Ouyô” (d’Avezac, 1845:21).

(B) “Jos” (Landolphe, 1823 in d’Avezac, 1845:21).

(C) “Ouyó” (d’Avezac, 1845:26)

Each of these three simply represents a different European spelling for one and the same name, viz. “Ijaw”.

(2) M. d’Avezac (1845:26) notes that this name Èkó [which as demonstrated above is one and the same as Ekó or Eco] is the Ijebus’s designation for Lagos — NOT the Binis’s.

M. d’Avezac (1845:26) also recognizes this name Èkó to be one and the same as the Ichoo found on Dutch maps [from as early as the 1630s].

Contrary to my prior unwarranted assumption that the rendering “Ichoo” must have been older than the Ijebus’s designation; a more careful consideration of that text shows that no such information was provided.

M. d’Avezac is actually silent on which is the older of the Ijebu-Yorubas’s and the Dutch’s. No information is provided by d’Avezac in this regard.

The only information he provided on these two is his recognition that they [“Ichoo” and the Ijebus’s designation] are one and the same thing.

In the light of his silence as to which of these two is older — the Ijebus’s or the Dutch’s; other materials (with such information) must be adduced.

To be super clear again, we do NOT have a situation of contradiction here — there are no contradictions in a situation of ‘Silence vs. Information’.

Having clarified that, the earliest available writings which speak specifically on this are the records of Lagos history published by the British colonial authorities.

On this specific note, Sir Alan C. Burns’ “History of Nigeria”, (1929) states, and I quote here, that:

“Formerly it was known as Eko, which name it had received before any [town] settlements were made on the island.”

This specific information (unlike the silence from d’Avezac, etc.) NOT ONLY shows that this name Èkó is of a very considerable antiquity, it also shows that this name is indigenous to the Yorubas.

To discuss Eko’s etymology then, the Yoruba lexicon must be dug deep in the light of the above information about its very considerable Yoruba antiquity .

A Yoruba word which loudly stands out among others as the ancestor of the word “Eko” is the Yoruba word “Ereko”.

This is reasonably accurate for the following reasons:

(A) First of all, “ereko” is not “island” as some here may think. “Island” in Yoruba is “Erekushu”.

Secondly, “Ereko” refers to any sizeable area of land which is reserved for agriculture (i.e. oko), and which is subordinate to (i.e. owned and controlled by) a nearby city.

(B) The purpose which Lagos island originally served (as widely remembered in the traditional narrative of Lagosians) shows that it was originally an “ereko” to Iddo island.

A certain Iddo island-Awori Chief, “A-r’-omi-re” [lit. “one who is in friendly tune with the water”], is unanimously remembered in the traditions as having pioneered the use of Lagos-island as an agricultural area for fishing and pepper farming.

(C) Till date, the name “ereko” manages to survive on that island (i.e. Lagos island) In fact, it remains the name of one of the areas on that island even up until this very moment.

In the light of all the foregoing evidence, the name “Eko” (which has survived for Lagos-island) thus derives most certainly from the context of the original purpose to which it was first put (i.e. “ereko”) prior to when towns came to be settled on it.

From the aforementioned trailblazing feat of Chief Aromire, this “Eko” island, thus came to be sometimes remembered after him.

This alternative name for “Eko” (which highlights his feat) is known till this very moment as: “Eko-Ar’omi-re”.

This alternative name is often punned (for quite obvious reasons) into Eko-Aromi-‘sa’.


(3) Regarding the name “Koráme”, the relevant text from M. d’Avezac (1845) reads from page 26 as follows:

“… Binis … refer to it by the name Koráme [which is] recognizably the Curamo of the older Portuguese’s accounts, just as Ekó represents the Dutch hydrographers’ Ichoo.”

While the ‘Kórame/Curamo’ pair has its obvious similarity to the ‘Ekó/Ichoo’ pair; there is also an area of difference which d’Davezac clearly points out.

First, the similarity lies in his recognition that the renderings (Koráme and Curamo) refer to one and the same thing — just as the renderings (Èkó and Ichoo) refer to one and the same thing.

The difference he noted, however, results from his silence on which is older of the Ijebus’s “Èkó” and the Dutch’s “Ichoo”.

Yet, he used the comparative adjective “OLDER” specifically for the Portuguese’s “Curamo” in comparison to the Binis’s “Koráme”.

He therefore makes it loudly clear that the Portugues’s “Curamo” is actually older than the Binis’s “Koráme”.

In sum: Wherever the Portuguese got “Curamo” from in the first place, it is certainly not from the Binis.

D'Avezac's use of the comparative adjective “older" for the Portuguese's "Curamo" w.r.t. the Binis’s “Koráme” already makes this super clear.

To further buttress this information from d’Avezac (1845), the timelines show clearly that the Portuguese made contacts with Lagos in c.1472 — this was prior to the 1500s when the Binis began to immigrate into Lagos.

By this year 1472 when Rui de Sequeira visited Lagos, he had since described and documented the area with the phrase “Lago de Curamo”.

However, the word “Curamo” [unlike “Lago”] is not a native Portuguese word. This fact thus makes it clear that the Portuguese’s source for “Curamo” (c. 1472) is from their 1472 contact with Lagos itself.

The Portuguese’s “Curamo” is therefore recognizably derived from the already discussed alternative name for Lagos island — that is, the Yorubas’s “Eko-Aromi-re”, meaning: Aromire’s Eko.


[Continued]


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you guys are saying the same thing but you end up disagreeing as well. The very existence of Lagos has the people of Bini and the Awori as inhabitants. no one knew who existed first on this land but we know of this early inhabitants due to the arrival of the Portuguese. But from their story the Benin had upper hand and were ruling at that time.

Benin imperialism in lagos, cant be undermined

How we controlled the entire lagos and the various yoruba state like ondo, ekiti, Ogun osun


Makes one know how great benin was at those very time

gregyboy:
Benin imperialism in lagos, cant be undermined

How we controlled the entire lagos and the various yoruba state like ondo, ekiti, Ogun osun


Makes one know how great benin was at those very time

Hahahahaha, you forgot to add Dortmund, Barcelona, Swansea, Hiroshima, and Bujumbura

Westtimeline:
Hahahahaha, you forgot to add Dortmund, Barcelona, Swansea, Hiroshima, and Bujumbura

I don't tell lies bro


I can give you prove to all those state mentioned above



And i don't expect you to accept the truth tho, its hurtful