₦airaland Forum

gregyboy:
Since.i don't have why dont you bring something that contradict my claims

SW1st:
Are you being funny or just here to tease serious people on this thread or what?

You'll just open your mouth " waaaaaa! " to make claim but to prove it is often the problem.

I ask again, what is Edo/benin names for Oba and how did Yoruba take back Lagos from the almighty chicken so-called ' warriors " of Benin?

gregyboy:
I urge you to leave this thread and save the time to read

The article BENIN IMPERIALISM AND THE TRANSFORMATION
OF IDEJO CHIEFT AINCYINSTITUTION IN LAGOS, 1603-1850


You're wasting pages with obvious and senseless questions here

TAO11:
False fraudulent reasons as expected. I guess his ancestors also came because of herdsmen.

The reason of herdsmen came up during his visit to the Office of the Osun State Governor.

Check out the video below for one of his reason why he visited the Ooni.

Ewuare simply came to Ife to do the same thing that his own ancestors came to do — culminating ascension rites.

Note that they always come to Ife soon after they had just been crowned king of Benin.

The Ooni’s visit to Benin, on the other hand, was not because he was just crowned king of Ife.

Rather he went to Benin, just like every Nigerian dignitary, to attend the coronation ceremony.


No Ooni of Ife visits Benin just after he had just become Ooni.

It only happens with the Benin kings. They must visit Ife just after they had ascended the Benin throne.

Wonderful!!

May be should you should proceed now to inform us of the reason why the then Ooni of Ife was visited in Ife, in the early 1930s, by your Omonoba Akenzua II after he had just ascended the Benin throne.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13001549_8542decf4d954a1b907e0beb2d74ac8a_jpeg_jpeg927b109065011da3429151893c998900


After that, proceed to explain why the [same] Ooni of Ife was visited in Ife, in the late 1970s, by your Omonoba Erediauwa also after he had just ascended the Benin throne.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13001550_99016c282e9b484dae2b8c82f05edf11_jpeg_jpeg4946da521acbba55454f095d95999f8a


After that, proceed to explain why the present Ooni of Ife was visited in Ife, in the year 2016, by your present Omonoba Ewuare II also after he had just ascended the Benin throne.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13001551_ab64cfb09a1c4615898da3319be86a8e_jpeg_jpegdbba1b647a22ec3632f53f5210035f24


Since you now have no problem with the reports of Edo journalists, then you must have no problem with the reports of a Channels TV who hinted on some of the events that went down during Ewuare’s visit to the Ooni just after Ewuare’s coronation.

Check out the following Channels TV News report of the homage-visit of Omonoba Ewuare II.

Go to time-stamp 0:24 to 0:34, and you would find the following words:

“...his first port of call is the palace of the Ooni of Ife, Oba Adeyeye Ogunwusi — where he also paid homage to all Benin kings believed to have been buried there.”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZhU2AmpvJk

NB: Channels TV were present on ground. They weren’t merely reporting from the comfort of their office based on hearsay.

This simple fact thus clarifies the difference between the Benin kings’ visits to Ife and to other personalities in the country.

The other visits are apparently and merely for face-saving purposes, no homage is required in the other visits — or is it?

Cheers!

TimeManager, Christistruth00,

SW1st:
Even your master, the so-called French teacher that was forming James Bond was made to deactivate his account and ran with a tail behind his two legs. So, who are you, a novice that can not even answer a simple question or put his thought together?


You must think I just got into this thread and post? The thread I had been following right from the beginning even before you got here?

You are like a stubborn kid who thinks and believes running around the thread and quoting his imaginary oral up and down gives him an upper hand when in fact he's just acting like a spoil brat without any form of home training or discipline.


Typical of edo boys tho.

TimeManager:
I am less interested in their tiny konamen camp in Lagos, rather I am more interested in their successive Obas paying homage to their Ancestral home of Ife.
Which means the Benin E-warriors are on Nairaland hitting their heads on the wall while their Obas takes a cultural turn to pay homage to their Ancestral home of Ife and kiss the feet of the Ooni.

kiss the truth!

TAO11:
I - INTRODUCTION

(1) First of all, it is very crucial that I make it super clear that the specific land mass of our discussion is actually an island.

This fact is made clear in the notes of the German traveler (Andreas Joshua Ulsheimer) who visited the area from the year 1603.

This German traveler, Andreas Joshua Ulsheimer, reports in his notes that a town “Lago” was situated “on an island”.

In present-times, this island have come to be known by the name Lagos island. This location can be identified in the zoomed-in map of Lagos embedded below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13012539_761145ca04fb4045a00f6a846ca32721_jpeg_jpegbdabd29418754778ab185195c3cf2e9e

(2) Secondly, the actual town which Ulsheimer referred to as “Lago” did NOT occupy the whole of that island. Also, it was NOT the only town on that island.

This fact is also made clear in the same notes of Ulsheimer. The two points below each clearly establish this fact.

(A) Ulsheimer notes state that this town “Lago” [which is “surrounded by a … fence”] is, in fact, “a frontier town”.

In other words, this fenced town (Lago) lies in-between (i.e. on the border separating) two other settlements.

(B) Ulsheimer notes state that many people come to this town (Lago) not only “by water” but also “by land”.

This proves that those who came to the town (Lago) specifically “by land” could not have possibly been able to do so except that they themselves live on that same island but in a different town.

In the light of these foregoing information (which all comes from Ulsheimer’s 1603-4 notes), it becomes clear that the town “Lago” was just one of the different towns on that island.

Given the obvious fact that there are at least two other towns on that island, your repeated depiction of “Lago” as the only town on that island is terribly erroneous.

A correct depiction (based on a careful consideration of Ulsheimer’s notes) is that the town “Lago” lies on that island alongside (and in-between) two other towns on that island.

An imagery of this correct depiction of Ulsheimer’s observation is represented with my highlights in the embedded map below. The red highlight shows the town “Lago”.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13012540_3bffb7083d3d42769f93120299a7c3c0_jpeg_jpeg26ffca4bc66cab99046d060d7ecf45c3


Having clarified that the town “Lago” did not occupy the length and breadth of that island (as there were other towns on the same island), the following should now be easier for you to grasp.

II - OWNERSHIP

(1) Ulsheimer’s notes of 1603-4, which has been repeatedly cited above, make the following statement about the ownership of this town “Lago” as at the time he visited:

“Forty miles from Benin lies a large town called Lago, which also belongs to the King of Benin.”

~ Andreas Ulsheimer’s “Voyage of 1603-4”.

A statement to the same effect as the foregoing one is also found in M. d’Avezac’s “Notice Sur Le Pays Et Le People Des Yébous En Afrique“, (Paris, 1485), p. 26.

(2) However, it is not specified whether the Binis owned “Lago” town by virtue of aboriginal right, or forceful take over, or conferment.

Each of these three possibilities will be examined in turns in the comments that follow. But just before that, it is crucial that I stress again that Ulsheimer’s notes prove that there are other towns (apart from the Binis’s Lago) on that same island.

(A) Regarding aboriginal ownership, different early European sources render the indigenous name of this island [and beyond] as “Ahoni” land, or “Awani” land, or “Ahouy” land, etc.

M. d’Avezac (1485:25-26), for instance, does cite some of these early European sources which variously render the indigenous name as such -- among other close renderings of the same word.

These European renderings of the indigenous name thus agree with the multiply attested traditional account which holds strongly that the Awori people are the aboriginal owners of this island [and beyond].


In Summary:

(i) Ulsheimer’s notes remain silent on the specific nature of the Binis’s ownership of town “Lago”.

(ii) Other early European notes (and the multiply attested traditional account) inform us that the island as a whole [and beyond] is aboriginally owned by the Aworis.

To be super clear, we do NOT have a situation of contradiction here – there are no contradictions in a situation of ‘Silence vs. Information’.

And the available information shows that the Binis’s ‘ownership’ of the town “Lago” was NOT by virtue of some aboriginal right.

[Continued]

Cc: Balogunodua, Ideadoctor, gomojam, babtoundey, DenreleDave, TimeManager, Christistruth00, macof, RuggedSniper, SaintBeehot, Olu317, reallest, Amujale, forgiveness, NGpatriot, MelesZenawi

id2019, djevino, 9jamustchange, BornRicch, Ddaji, J111333, excanny, Mysticwebb, Yebosola, Derrylatei, AustineJohn908, Cashsteady, owobokiri, bularaz, kilonshele101, 8BitGee, Daum, edo3,, hicomm17, lionshare, ekesol, Demogorgon, Rumxy, Paganizonda, gwafaeziokwu

gregyboy:
Save yourself the time to educate yourself on the history you're currently on

Cool down your tribal ego, you dont need to defend here, simply walk out and accept the truth

TimeManager:
This exactly is the fact of the matter and NOT a Contention.
The Benin miscreants erroneously believed that a tiny konamen camp on the island is the same as the Entire Lagos. I have never seen a people as dumb, no wonder they possess little or no academic credentials in Southern Nigeria.

kiss the truth!

gregyboy:
Friendly visit you mean

First pics mistranslating text explains the benin ife myth to be a recent made up shit started after the creation of Nigeria


Second picture mistranslating text shows the site of orun oba ado, when it was excavated they found nothing

SW1st:
May Almighty God preserve and keep TAO11 for us. She's load and epitome of knowledge and wisdom when it comes to history and diminishing the ego of those Edo miscreants.

We need more like TOA11 among us.

TimeManager:
There is a reason I've been calling them "Konamen". They seem not to understand the meaning of a camp. Whether they appointed Ashipa or Ashipo in their camp, is none of my business.

For TAo, she has been flogging their dumb heads for years. she is TAO for a reason.

kiss the truth!

SW1st:
May Almighty God preserve and keep TAO11 for us. She's load and epitome of knowledge and wisdom when it comes to history and diminishing the ego of those Edo miscreants.

We need more like TOA11 among us.

TimeManager:
Every of your oba that visited his ancestral home in Ife, had a tour to the Orun oba ado site. The bloodline of Eweka must always come back home.

kiss the truth!

thatigboman:
all these your Tales By Moonlight and no single literature to back them up.
How can Porto Novo be under alaafin of oyo when dahomey women overan abeokuta and your greatgrandparents ran as the feet could carry them, abandoning the wives and children and hid under olumo rock?

TAO11:
I - INTRODUCTION

(1) First of all, it is very crucial that I make it super clear that the specific land mass of our discussion is actually an island.

This fact is made clear in the notes of the German traveler (Andreas Joshua Ulsheimer) who visited the area from the year 1603.

This German traveler, Andreas Joshua Ulsheimer, reports in his notes that a town “Lago” was situated “on an island”.

In present-times, this island have come to be known by the name Lagos island. This location can be identified in the zoomed-in map of Lagos embedded below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13012539_761145ca04fb4045a00f6a846ca32721_jpeg_jpegbdabd29418754778ab185195c3cf2e9e

(2) Secondly, the actual town which Ulsheimer referred to as “Lago” did NOT occupy the whole of that island. Also, it was NOT the only town on that island.

This fact is also made clear in the same notes of Ulsheimer. The two points below each clearly establish this fact.

(A) Ulsheimer notes state that this town “Lago” [which is “surrounded by a … fence”] is, in fact, “a frontier town”.

In other words, this fenced town (Lago) lies in-between (i.e. on the border separating) two other settlements.

(B) Ulsheimer notes state that many people come to this town (Lago) not only “by water” but also “by land”.

This proves that those who came to the town (Lago) specifically “by land” could not have possibly been able to do so except that they themselves live on that same island but in a different town.

In the light of these foregoing information (which all comes from Ulsheimer’s 1603-4 notes), it becomes clear that the town “Lago” was just one of the different towns on that island.

Given the obvious fact that there are at least two other towns on that island, your repeated depiction of “Lago” as the only town on that island is terribly erroneous.

A correct depiction (based on a careful consideration of Ulsheimer’s notes) is that the town “Lago” lies on that island alongside (and in-between) two other towns on that island.

An imagery of this correct depiction of Ulsheimer’s observation is represented with my highlights in the embedded map below. The red highlight shows the town “Lago”.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13012540_3bffb7083d3d42769f93120299a7c3c0_jpeg_jpeg26ffca4bc66cab99046d060d7ecf45c3


Having clarified that the town “Lago” did not occupy the length and breadth of that island (as there were other towns on the same island), the following should now be easier for you to grasp.

II - OWNERSHIP

(1) Ulsheimer’s notes of 1603-4, which has been repeatedly cited above, make the following statement about the ownership of this town “Lago” as at the time he visited:

“Forty miles from Benin lies a large town called Lago, which also belongs to the King of Benin.”

~ Andreas Ulsheimer’s “Voyage of 1603-4”.

A statement to the same effect as the foregoing one is also found in M. d’Avezac’s “Notice Sur Le Pays Et Le People Des Yébous En Afrique“, (Paris, 1485), p. 26.

(2) However, it is not specified whether the Binis owned “Lago” town by virtue of aboriginal right, or forceful take over, or conferment.

Each of these three possibilities will be examined in turns in the comments that follow. But just before that, it is crucial that I stress again that Ulsheimer’s notes prove that there are other towns (apart from the Binis’s Lago) on that same island.

(A) Regarding aboriginal ownership, different early European sources render the indigenous name of this island [and beyond] as “Ahoni” land, or “Awani” land, or “Ahouy” land, etc.

M. d’Avezac (1485:25-26), for instance, does cite some of these early European sources which variously render the indigenous name as such -- among other close renderings of the same word.

These European renderings of the indigenous name thus agree with the multiply attested traditional account which holds strongly that the Awori people are the aboriginal owners of this island [and beyond].


In Summary:

(i) Ulsheimer’s notes remain silent on the specific nature of the Binis’s ownership of town “Lago”.

(ii) Other early European notes (and the multiply attested traditional account) inform us that the island as a whole [and beyond] is aboriginally owned by the Aworis.

To be super clear, we do NOT have a situation of contradiction here – there are no contradictions in a situation of ‘Silence vs. Information’.

And the available information shows that the Binis’s ‘ownership’ of the town “Lago” was NOT by virtue of some aboriginal right.

[Continued]

Cc: Balogunodua, Ideadoctor, gomojam, babtoundey, DenreleDave, TimeManager, Christistruth00, macof, RuggedSniper, SaintBeehot, Olu317, reallest, Amujale, forgiveness, NGpatriot, MelesZenawi

id2019, djevino, 9jamustchange, BornRicch, Ddaji, J111333, excanny, Mysticwebb, Yebosola, Derrylatei, AustineJohn908, Cashsteady, owobokiri, bularaz, kilonshele101, 8BitGee, Daum, edo3,, hicomm17, lionshare, ekesol, Demogorgon, Rumxy, Paganizonda, gwafaeziokwu

gregyboy:
Stop asking foolish questions


The question you should be asking hi
Is the benin-ife myth even real,

The answer is no, the myth was originated after after the creation of Nigeria, when the oba of benin politically aligned aligned edo as yorubas for political favors and accepted to be culturally included as yoruba by the Oduduwa ancestory, as needed to be politically aligned as Yoruba


The myth of benin coming from Oduduwa origin was born from such alignment

gregyboy:
Ulsheimer’s never discussed the benin boundaries on lagos it only discussed the particular location the benins were currently stationed,

Etinosa1234 throw more light on this

gregyboy:
Lol, are you trolling edos because am dishing out
The painful truth to you all


The name oba is of benin origin your chief priest ooni, took the name oba in 1930 to replace the sir the British used in addressing him

forgiveness:
Oga! You are grasping for straw. The enormous amount of evidence shown you are enough to convince you Lagos never belonged to Benin.

As matter of fact, there were quarters in Lagos then occupied by aworis, Portuguese, Beninis etc.

I have known that for long.

forgiveness:
It's not Benin's origin. Oba was already in used ever before Benin had a king.

Obantala was the ruler in Ife before Oduduwa dethroned him. That was ever before Benin had Oba.

Obanta was derived from Oba- wa-nita. Meaning our king is outside. That was as far back as 1430.

gregyboy:
Obantala, those gods were formed after benin military expansion into Yoruba areas


Anyway the word oba got into yorubland during benin military expansion into territories

There is ancient parable in owo, which says just as olodumare commands respect in heaven the oba of benin commands respect on earth

This is to show the oba influence on yoruba areas, to be accorded the status of a god on earth,
So imagine how the name oba would go all over yoruba towns, and they all begin using it to name their gods and even titles

The myth of obatala was certainly formed after the word oba had been brought from benin to the yoruba people through her military influence

Benin expansion on youruba areas started 1300Ad so that is old enough for the idol obatala to be formed

gregyboy:
The British once settled in calabar doesn't meaning the place, they didnt settle their influence wasnt there


Use your head, lago was the seat of power, more like the capital but the benin influence abound in the entire lagos

forgiveness:
It's not Benin's origin. Oba was already in used ever before Benin had a king.

Obantala was the ruler in Ife before Oduduwa dethroned him. That was ever before Benin had Oba.

Obanta was derived from Oba- wa-nita. Meaning our king is outside. That was as far back as 1430.

forgiveness:
Which entire Lagos?

forgiveness:
Who led the first Benin military expansion into Yorubaland?

What was the first place he went to?

gregyboy:
First of all Oduduwa was an idol and never existed to begin with,


Obatala myth was probably coined after the word oba was adopted by the yorubas

forgiveness:
And he had children?

Who led the first Benin military expansion into Yorubaland?

Where was the place?

gregyboy:
Oba Ewuare, who was a warrior king

gregyboy:
which children.... Lol

Go to my previous comment when i posted a screenshot of rcc law on heritage of Oduduwa

Just search for it on this thread


Ife in ancient times was referred as a religious town, and not ancestral

gregyboy:
A yoruba nigga like you also debated me on the ebuttemeta issh on the previous page

He argued ebuttemeta was occupied and controlled by either egba or ijebu, and insisted benin influence never got there


I wish i could remember is moniker and give him a knock
Same thing goes for you for undermining benin influence on entire lagos