Obalufon:
Battle field ,Recruit in battle field are you kidding me ,Do you even have a field in Benin ? your people were smoked with TNT and rained on with hot sulphur and brimstone.. wages of your sins ..God purposely sent the British to lay waste to your demonic land

Bro benin city was the battle field


Nawa for dis aboki ooh,

And yes the British could recruit after all the service men they used, were benin neighbour's

Igbo, hausa, Yoruba

gregyboy:




Bro benin city was the battle field


Nawa for dis aboki ooh,

And yes the British could recruit after all the service men they used, were benin neighbour's

Igbo, hausa, Yoruba

Stop replying this people..

His replies shows that he is ill informed

Edo with chips in their shoulders..pride of an Ape

gregyboy:




Bro benin city was the battle field


Nawa for dis aboki ooh,

And yes the British could recruit after all the service men they used, were benin neighbour's

Igbo, hausa, Yoruba

Battle field ?? Haha!!!laughing in portuguese you must be joking Mr Battle field, Battle up your hairy arse,...The kill was nothing but a poaching game , you people were hunted like a warthog in the jungle, ..

Etinosa1234:
Yes... As it is, we both agree that the original place called Lago is Lagos island ... Lets see if u'll still agree that the land belonged to Benin at one time or not .

At no point did I state (or even suggest) that the area in question was beyond a part of Lagos island.

Also, at no point did I state (or even suggest) that the Binis didn't at a point own a part of that island – just like other groups did.

My repeatedly emphasized clarification, however, is that ownership arises from different forms one of which is conferment.

I have demonstrated this to be the actual case of the Binis in Lagos, and I would do so again.

And let's note that the Lago that Ulsheimer refered to was the domain of the new Eleko of Eko

IF by the phrase "domain of the ... Eleko" you refer to the town from where the Eleko rules; then your statement here is WRONG -- even though both the Eleko's town and the town 'Lago' lie/d on that same island.

To prove this, refer again to Ulsheimer's notes. The town 'Lago' -- as used by Ulsheimer -- "is a frontier town." [the key word here is frontier].

This proves that the town 'Lago' is, in fact, sandwiched in-between two other towns on that island.

I have simplified this repeatedly with a simple and basic image. [See my highlights in the first attachment below].

Having simplified that again with that very simple image, now be informed that:

(1) Isale-Eko is the town from where the Eleko rules the island.

(2) Isale-Eko covers the westernmost (or left side) part of the island.

(3) Town 'Lago’, on the other hand, was a sandwiched town in-between other towns on the island.

(4) In conclusion: The town 'Lago' as described by Ulsheimer is not one and the same as the town from where the Eleko rules.

Yes ... The land which belonged to Benin didn't cover the whole island and wasn't the only town there

Great!

... but the key adjective that Ulsheimer used abt the town is that it was Large ...

. Lol. The word "large" is not a comparative adjective, neither is it a superlative adjective. In other words, 100 different towns in an area can all be large.

There is nothing in Ulsheimer's notes about any comparative detail of the size of the town 'Lago'. Please direct me to one such comparison if they exist.

The map which luckily displayed on the site further corroborates my points... In ur map, lago is of a large size compared to the remaining part of the island ...

Lol. The map I attached is simply a "map of Lagos" by Google Maps.

The word "Lago" and the three colored ellipses in my attachment are not Google Maps's. Those are my mine.

And I incorporated those into the map simply to highlight the sandwiched nature of the ”town Lago” as gathered from Ulsheimer's notes.

Nowhere did I mention or (even suggest) that the apparent respective sizes of my ellipses have anything to do with Ulsheimer’s notes or with the point I was making.

Also, to note, the fence around the town was to keep out the conquered Aworis from disturbing the peace of the town while they (Benin soldiers) used their powerful status to enforce, influence and control trade to be made only in Lagos ...

Lol. This is what you're supposed to prove. You just committed the circular reasoning fallacy again

May you please direct me to the passage from Ulsheimer's notes from where you got all these, I pray thee? Lol.

...There were other towns but they were either small, powerless or of little influence hence Ulsheimer never gave them any sort of recognition. The major town there was Lago ...

Lol. Your impression here of relative size, relative strength, and relative influence as the basis of “Ulsheimer[’s] … recognition” is actually ignorant, laughable, and false.

Instead, Ulsheimer was a German who was the appointed surgeon for a Dutch trade voyage from Amsterdam to the “Guinea Company” -- a company of the Dutch located in West Africa.

The voyage actually casts anchor at places (NOT on the basis of such places size, strength or influence, BUT) on the basis of a pre-existing trade relationship between such places and the Dutch’s “Guinea Company”.

The evidence for this comes from Ulsheimer himself where after the voyage had sailed through Cape Palmas and Quakqua, then through Cape Three Points and then to Komenda where they first cast anchor. He writes:

“Finally we cast anchor at Commenda (a village) and traded with the Blacks for a while.”

~ Ulsheimer’s Voyage of 1603-4, p. 21.

Let’s hope that Benin kingdom is not a village too since according to you, the voyage could only have casted anchor at places with identical status.

To be clear, some other West African polities had their trade relationships with other Europeans.

A case in point is the Ijebu kingdom which had been in trade relationship with the Portuguese since a hundred-odd years before Ulsheimer’s visit of 1603-4.

Ulsheimer already specified the method by which Lago(originally inhabited by the Aworis) was taken when he mentioned soldiers...

Lol. No, he didn’t.

First of all, the “town Lago” was simply one of the towns on that island -- not the whole of the island. [See first attachment for yet another reminder].

Secondly, there is no evidence that the Aworis were living on that specific “town Lago”– as at the time when the Binis’s migrated to Lagos.

Thirdly, the only available evidence shows that that island as a whole was simply a location reserved by the Aworis (who were living on the adjacent island of Iddo and elsewhere) for agricultural purposes.

Having clarified that, Ulsheimer’s mention of soldiers living inside the “town Lago” in the year 1603 is in no way indicative of your idea that their predecessors originally came in into that location by conquering it.

Ulsheimer’s notes about soldiers in 1603 simply tells us nothing about how they came in three before 1603. Neither does his notes tell us anything about how that location was originally acquired in the past.

Anything beyond what he witnessed or as told in in 1603 is no more than your personal heavy assumption.

Regarding the original arrival of the Binis into that island and why they later bore arms:

The earliest writings on this specific matter remain the British records of Lagos history. These records for the umpteenth time state that:

Binis’ original penetration into the island was amicably after having being granted such permission by the aboriginal people.

After some time since the first Bini settlers had settled in peacefully and had been living as one of the groups there; Binis were drawn into conflict with some town(s) on the mainland.

This appears to explain the transition of the original Bini settlers from amicable settlers into their successors who later bore arms and lived as a combatant unit because they were responding militarily to a relatively fresh situation that called for such.

In fact, this Lagos account is largely corroborated by Ulsheimer’s notes where it alludes (on page 24) to another Benin town (aside ‘Lago’) whose location is unspecified except it is somewhere along the Atlantic coast — but apparently closer to the town Lago than it is closer to Benin.

His notes show that the subjects there (unlike those at the town Lago) happened to have “rebelled” against their king, and those at the town Lago have apparently been tasked with the reponsibilty of returning them back to status quo.

It continues to show that those at the town Lago (acting on behalf of the king) requested his team for help since they by themselves “could not easily conquer” the town -- because like “Lago” it is also “walled”; and they, at Lago, have no canon.


This is a huge corroboration from Ulsheimer’s note regarding why he observed those of town Lago to be living in a military formation. They had simply been attempting to respond militarily to a relatively fresh situation that called for such.

All of these (from his notes or from the Lagos account) clearly has nothing to do with how their predecessors originally migrated for the first time from Benin city to Lagos island.

To buttress this point, it is rather illogical or foolishness for a town to willingly loan or give out land to another town who had attacked them previously

Lol. No, it is neither illogical, foolish, nor unusual that a period of understanding and calm should follow a prior period of conflict and unrest between two parties -- especially if one of the parties later shows the latter inclination.

... Now, Benin never claimed to be the Aboriginals of Lagos...

Great!

Rather, we proved that we invaded, conquered and defeated the original people living there and reestablished a new dynasty in Eko... This is what Egharevba wrote

IF by the word "proved", you refer to the eyewitness notes of Andreas Joshua Ulsheimer, then your task, as I have demosntrated above is light years away from the word “proved”.
And IF by the word "proved", you refer to the statements of the Benin Chief Egharevba, then such statements are simply too late in the light of earlier contrary materials – Ulsheimer’s account and the Lagos account.

In simpler terms, Lagos belonged to Benin by conquest

Samuk gregyboy Etrusen valirex edeyoung areafada2

This is exactly what you are expected to prove in the light of the early materials. I’ll patiently wait. Lol.


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Etinosa1234:
Apart from oral accounts which have been modified over the years and are not 90% certain, there is no account that states that Benin have long been residing in Lagos before 1603.

Lol. In an attempt to reply at any cost, you got needlessly defensive and led yourself into a thick web of self-contradictions.

In your comment here, you appear to undermine the obvious fact that Binis had migrated to Lagos island “long ... before [the year] 1603”.

Yet, you didn’t mind contradicting yourself when you followed that up with the claim that “the land [of town “Lago”] was conquered by Benin long ago [before Ulsheimer’s 1603-4 visit]”.

Although your claim of conquest here (as seen in the paragraph below) have remained elusive, you have to, however, make up your mind on whether the Binis came to Lagos island long before 1603-4, OR NOT.

In any case, Ulsheimer’s notes already indicate with a significant degree of precision that Binis had been in Lagos island long before the year 1603. The following are the facts to prove this:

(1) At least as at the time when Ulsheimer’s team was set to leave Cape-Coast (in Ghana); they had been informed (by General Adrian von Gus) that Benin city was one of their next trade stops. ~ p. 23.

(2) They then sailed on from Cape Coast down to Accra (for the best gold), then to Ardra, and then to Lagos – the harbor of which they entered and casted anchor. ~ p. 23.

While already knowing that Benin is one of their next stops, they branched off into Lagos’ harbor only to find Binis living in one of the towns on Lagos island. Miraculous coincidence?

No, it isn’t a miracle, neither is it a coincidence. The obvious fact is simply that his team knew beforehand that many Binis were already residing in one of the towns on Lagos island.

In any case, they later proceeded afterwards from there to Benin from where they also took their leave for Cameroon but after their sloop had been loaded full of Benin pepper. ~ p. 25.

(3) While he met Binis at the town “Lago”, Ulsheimer observed that it is an already flourishing large walled town, with an already existing year-in-year-out internal system. ~ pp. 24, 40-41.


The above facts all agree to prove one thing:
When Ulsheimer’s team arrived at town “Lago” (sometimes between late 1603 and early 1604); they met it as a town which the Binis must have been inhabiting for a long time – that is, from circa the mid-1500s.

While he wasn't present during the Benin conquest of Lagos, his mention of soldiers connotes that he believes that the land was conquered by Benin long ago and was flourishing already under Benin direct control...

So far, your claim of “conquest” (supposedly on the basis of Ulsheimer’s notes) hinges on one thing from his notes – that he met soldiers living in one of the towns on that island.

What I have repeatedly demonstrated instead is that these Binis whom he met in “Lago” in 1603-4 (unlike their predecessors who originally settled same town in the 1500s) were only living in such military formation because they needed to respond to a latter-day circumstance.

The Lagos account takes note of this where it states that Binis were later drawn into conflict with some town on the mainland, after they had already settled in peacefully and had been living amicably.

This account which explains the context surrounding why they later bore arms is also corroborated very largely by Ulsheimer’s notes which sheds light on why he met them in military formation in 1603-4 .

Ulsheimer’s details has nothing to do with how their predecessors originllay migrated for the first time into “Lago”.

Rather, the details (from pages 23-24 of his notes) show that they were responding to a relatively fresh situation that calls for nothing but military action. I have given the details on this above.

If it was by conferment that Benin got Lagos, Benin people residing there would have been under the jurisdiction of the king or government that gave them the land. But this isn't the case.... Otherwise, Ulsheimer would have noted abt a bigger power alongside the Oba of Benin on the island being supposedly allocated to Benin

Again. “Lago” is one of towns on the island. Ulsheimer visited that specific town in the light of pre-existing trade connections with the Binis.

Ulsheimer is a voyage surgeon who visited this one town (not the other towns on the island) and was writing about the internal activities there. And he stayed in Lago only for a limited period – a few weeks at most.

Your childish statement is like arguing that there is no CDA Chairmen in your uncle’s neighborhood -- because on your visit to his house, he was the singular controller of his household throughout your short-lived stay.

Moreover, the owners of that island are based largely on a nearby island (and the mainland) and only use the island mainly for fishing and agriculture – while conferring different areas to immigrants who didn’t mind living there such as the the Binis, the Ijebus, the Ijaws, et al.

It is also important to note that it was as a result of Benin direct control over Lagos that made the town flourish in trade as noted in Ulsheimer last sentence in his excerpt

To feed your infantile/juvenile reasoning back to you however, I’d say:

The Binis living in their “town Lago” dIrEcTeD the people of the other towns (on/off that island) to visit their “town Lago” with goods in order to cash out from them (Binis), and also to extort them (Binis) whenever such opportunity presents itself. Lol.

In any case, nowhere did Ulsheimer state that trade occurred ONLY inside the town he resided at. Wait, how again do people report on trade activities in places other than those they witnessed?

...Rather I said that Benin influence over the island was majorly over the large town called Lago which is the domain of the Eleko of Eko...

First of all, it has been demonstrated that your assumption of the the Eleko’s town being on the site of the said “town Lago” is a false assumption.

Secondly, the large town “Lago” was inhabited by the Binis. As far as Ulsheimer’s notes show, Binis’ influence there was among themselves -- confined to the four walls of their settlement.

No such thing is said in his notes about any Benin influence (minor or major) on any of the other towns on that island. Please direct me to any such statement in his note if they exist.

If u had read Egharevba note more clearly, u would have noted that he specifically said that Eko was made a military camp by Benin which was used to control trade in the area ... So that means even though they camped at Eko, their powerful influence was used to force people to come to trade only and only in Lagos

Why does all these actually sound like what I could have written as at age seven? Lol.

In any case, Ulsheimer was writing from the perspective of a resident of town “Lago”.

Moreover, nowhere does his notes mention (even cursorily) that people traded ONLY in town “Lago”.

Like I had noted above, to feed your infantile/juvenile reasoning back to you however, I’d say:

The Binis living in their “town Lago” dIrEcTeD the people of the other towns (on/off that island) to visit their “town Lago” with goods in order to cash out from them (Binis), and also to extort them (Binis) whenever such opportunity presents itself. Lol.

That is the most one can possibly infer from that passage you cited. Anything beyond that is your sheer imagination.

Firstly, Ulsheimer stated while they lived in Lagos, their activities was not restricted to only Lagos... This is clearly the point when Ulsheimer noted that people came in to trade their wares...

Wait, you mean “their activities was [sic] not restricted to” within their fence because others came in there to cash in on them?? What sort of reasoning is this??

This shows that they opened their gates to people to trade their wares in Lagos while the military taxed or collected the gains which was used to boost the economy of the Benin Empire

Lol. I have read Ulsheimer’s notes from A to Z, I can’t find any such mention of taxes. Can you please direct me to the page(s) from where you got that??

Now in Ulsheimer notes, he noted about a particular activity that the soldiers did in a year... ..

^{Every day these two send news off to the king, informing him of what the judges have done that day. They do this throughout the whole year}

[s]This indicates that he was present in Lagos or got info abt lagos for close to a year.. ... It also proves that they were always an armed units for the long time he stayed... It would be irrelevant for him to say that they are soldiers and were always armed since soldiers (Esp the ones on foreign land) must always be armed to fight invaders... …[/s]

Lol. The daily year-in year-out activities which he reported about “Lago” town were neither witnessed by him for a year (or close), nor did he keep obtaining such information for a year (or close).

Your conclusion here is not only ignorant, but also laughable.

Ulsheimer’s whole trip from Amsterdam to the west coast of Africa and then back again to Amsterdam (including all the trade stops made at different places along the west/central coast of Africa) lasted only about 16 months.

He writes on page 28 as follows:

“After this we sailed on homewards, towards Holland, and in a short time, namely between St Bartholomew’s Day and Michaelmas 1604, i.e. about sixteen months after our departure, we safely reached Rotterdam on the Mass; for the people of Rotterdam and Amsterdam are in the same company.”

So, staying “close to a year”, as you think, in town “Lago” alone (OR staying such length of time in both “Lago” and Benin towns combined) would mean the follwing:

It would mean that only about four months was spent travelling from Europe to the West/Central African coast; spent anchoring at the different other places along the coast; and spent travelling back to Europe.

First of all, about four months is simply not feasible for all that. That would simply be against the Laws of Physics.

Secondly, the time spent at Cape Coast which is only one of the many places anchored at is reported in his notes as “several months”. ~ p. 21.


[Continues]

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[Continued from the foregoing]

Your claim of “close to a year” in Lago alone (or in both Lago and Benin together) is therefore simply a figment of your laughable imagination.

To wrap this all up, Ulsheimer’s team simply branched off briefly into the Lagos harbor on their way from Ardra prior to when they would all continue on their trip to Benin and beyond.

While his team’s stay at Lago was relatively brief (at most a couple of few weeks – considering the only availably data of about seven identifiable days), the total length of their stay at Benin itself was given as “three months” [p. 42.].

How then is the daily year-in year-out activities in “Lago” about which Ulsheimer documented is to be understood?

The phrase “throughout the whole year” in that quotation is simply a received information rather than an event observed by Ulsheimer for a whole year, or close to a year.

Again, this goes to prove that as at the time he visited the “town Lago” in 1603-4; well established day-in-day-out yearly activities had already been ongoing for years before his team’s arrival.

In order words, Binis have immigrated into that town well in the 1500s.He never witnessed their original arrival, neither did he note a thing about their original arrival.

Etinosa1234:
U tend to deceive ur self a lot......

I've already explained this... But lemme add to it
1) Ulsheimer tho wasn't present when Benin conquered Lagos, but it can be deduced from the notes that the land called Lago was under Benin direct military
2) According to Egharevba and Robert Smith who supports this statement, the place was mainly a base or camp from where Benin extended their control over trade in that area... That's why people chose to trade in Lagos and not iddo or any other inconsequential areas in the island

This was debunked above where it is said, and I quote here again, that:

“In any case, Ulsheimer was writing from the perspective of a resident of town “Lago”.

Moreover, nowhere does his notes mention (even cursorily) that people traded ONLY in town “Lago”.

Like I had noted above, to feed your infantile/juvenile reasoning back to you however, I’d say:

The Binis living in their “town Lago” dIrEcTeD the people of the other towns (on/off that island) to visit their “town Lago” with goods in order to cash out from them (Binis), and also to extort them (Binis) whenever such opportunity presents itself. Lol.

That is the most one can possibly infer from that passage you cited. Anything beyond that is your sheer imagination.”

Now to the soon to be debunked paper that u tend to carry around … My two accounts 1603

Except that the 1603 account says nothing of what you’ve tried to force down its throat.

… and 1845 are majorly eyewitness accounts

Nowhere did I say that

Now, its best to say that the book u quote
1) Consist of oral accounts which are not 100% true
2) contains stories that have been changed, modified and interpreted to suit personal interests

Proved your evidence for (1) and (2).

While Ulsheimer notes clearly mentioned that Lagos was ruled by military generals,

No, his notes never said that -- not even once.

He simply showed that there is one island (among others obviously; and there are other larger lands too obviously), and that on this particular island lies different towns; and in only one of these towns live soldiers in the year 1603-4.

He said absolutely nothing about how their predecessors came there originally in the past.

Moreover, he indicated (in a way that corroborates the Lagos account) that those soldiers he met in 1603-4 were responding to a relatively fresh situation that called for nothing but military response.

This thus appears to confirm the Lagos account which states that their predecessor came in originally as peaceful settlers.

the British records which is not true consist of , as I have said before, oral stories...

The very oral stories which are largely corroborated by Ulsheimer’s notes -- just as the oral stories about Ewuare I & Co.

Now due to less and slow flow of information around the world, it is safe to say that if Alan Burns or any colonial officers had come in contact with Ulsheimer account before writing the book, he would have dropped ur point and stuck with Ulsheimer...

There would have been no point doing that since his account and those of the officer(s) before him are largely corroborated by Ulsheimer’s notes as I have recently demonstrated.

One states that the original Binis settled in peacefully, the other says absolutely nothing on how the original Binis first settled in in the 1500s.

One states that the Binis, after they’ve long settled in, began to engage in some fight; the other agrees with this based on the events as to the extent that such fighting with another Benin town took place during his visit.

Whence then is the contradiction?? Lol.

In conclusion Alan wrote based on what he was told and not by comparing two accounts to find out which one is more logical

Yes, just as writers who wrote that some man called (Eweka, Uwuakhahen, Ewuare I, Ehenmihen, Ewedo, Oguola, Edoni, Ohen, Udagbedo, Egbeka, Orobiru, Uwaifokun, Ezoti, Olua, Ozolua, Esigie, Orhogbua, OR Ehengbuda, among many others) once ruled Benin.

They wrote these based on the oral stories they were fed with in Benin – not what they saw. In fact, those who should have met many of these rulers (if they exist in the first place) makes no mention anything like any single one of these names.

[s]To show a few contradictions between Ulsheimer eyewitness account and Alan's compilation of folktale stories , we'll first define the meaning of conferment[/b]

Now to confer means to grant possession...

According to Alan, the Benin had attacked the Aworis before but were repelled, then they peacefully infiltrated Lagos(hilarious) and had more influence than the government of the Awori. U also concluded that Lago was by conferment ...

Using the definition of confer above, it is either foolishness --on the part of the Aworis to grant possession of land to another party who had formerly invaded them-- or illogical to say that Alan's story is true taking Ulsheimer story into account...

If it's the former, its safe to conclude that foolishness was an inherent Yoruba ability and trait for them to grant land to invaders. Even as at our present time, people were fighting hard against the government who wanted to give land to the herdsmen --by Implementing a Law called RUGA-- who were killing people indiscriminately...

No one can feel comfortable giving lands to invaders or terrorists... Its a human trait to find any means possible to stay far away from trouble... Except the Yoruba of course

From ur conclusion using Alan folktales, are u also agreeing to the fact that ur Yoruba grandfather's were whimps and weaklings that they couldn't fight for their land but had to give out a large portion to the Benin out of fear

If it's the latter, Ulsheimer account which is an eyewitness account debunks Alan's own which came 300 years later.....[/s]

This was debunked earlier, but to punch it in again with more details.

In past times, kingdoms fighting one another is more of the norm while period of peace or zero fighting is more of the exception. The reverse is quite the case in our modern times.

Today, kingdoms being generally at peace with one another is more of the norm, while kingdoms engaging each other in warfare is more of the exception.

So, the reaction of modern people to a marauding kingdom today is not necessarily the same as the reaction olden people would have met such situation with.

Modern people would find an invasion event to be very strange compared to how olden people would have found it – if olden people found it strange at all in the first place.

Further to this relatively normal perception of olden people to fighter and enemy combatants; we know still that it is neither illogical, foolish, nor unusual that a period of understanding and calm should follow a prior period of conflict and unrest between two parties -- especially if one of the parties later shows the latter inclination.

Ulsheimer account says that the Benin were the ones majorly in Lagos which is the present day jurisdiction of the Eleko of Eko

Again, Lagos has many different islands and even mainlands.

Only one of these islands is the subject of Ulsheimer’s notes. In fact, only a portion of this one island is the specific town he regarded as the settlement of the Binis.

In other words, there are non-Bini settlements on that same island. In fact, every other island and mainland there are non-Bini settlements. So be clear and stop deceiving the only deceivable people – your Benin people.

Moreover, it has been demonstrated that the town of the Eleko from where he rules the island is not one and the same as the site of that town where the Binis lived when hey immigrated to Lagos.

[s]while Alan erroneously said that the Benin, after previously attacking Lagos, peacefully infiltrated the town or according to u, conferred them land... As a thank u gift for invading them ?

No sane government will allow such...[/s]

This was debunked.

Thank God for Benin that created a new dynasty in Lagos

You’ve been asked to prove this. So do so in due course, I pray thee.

[s]Like I said previously, information in the 20th century downwards was not readily available ... Also according to u, Egharevba got his account independently from palace chiefs ...

So with little information readily available, Egharevba merely wrote stories being told to him which happened to corroborate earlier accounts ie Ulsheimer and D'Avesac

Besides this ur claim of early account is very baseless... If Benin and Lagos were asked at the same time, Benin would have still said the same thing Egharevba said decades later


Except u are blind, which u have shown before , the earliest accounts on Lagos which is the eyewitness accounts is Ulsheimer and D'Avesac accounts....

U can keep repeating the folktales to ur sorry self if u like[/s]

This was debunked; and Egherevba had access to even some European writers' materials -- let alone a material from Lagos.

In Conclusion:
The Binis’s ownership of their specific spot on that island was by forceful take over. and not by conferment as u have erroneously said Samuk gregyboy Etrusen valirex edeyoung areafada2

Yes, it is by conferment as I have repetedly demonstrated with evidence.

I hope that someday you too will be able to demonstrate your position also with evidence – if that’s ever possible.

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Obalufon:
Edo with chips in their shoulders..pride of an Ape

kiss the truth!

Obalufon:
Battle field ?? Haha!!!laughing in portuguese you must be joking Mr Battle field, Battle up your hairy arse,...The kill was nothing but a poaching game , you people were hunted like a warthog in the jungle, ..

kiss the truth!

Etinosa1234:
With this explanation u have given here, is it not hypocrisy for u to assume that the word "Korame" as written by the French author was not the European spelling for Eko-amen?

Lol. Comparing apples and oranges.

I alluded to the words, “Ouyô”, “Jos”, “Ouyó” with detailed referencing; and it proves to be different spellings of one single well-known and continuously living word, namely “Ijaw(s)”.

Your actually incomparable scenario, however, is simply about two spellings viz. the Portuguese’s “Curamo” and the Binis’s “Koráme”. Not about a spelling and a locally well-known and living Benin phrase.

The text (d’Avezac’s) states two key things about these two renderings, viz. (1) That they are one and the same word; (2) That the Portuguese’s used it earlier.

In the light of this information from the text, two conclusion becomes clear, viz. (1) This word NEVER originated from the Binis – the Portuguese had it before them.

But where did the Portuguese get this word from in the first place? Is it their native word, or is it from another polity entirely?

I have answered this earlier with evidence and I will do so again.

…Irrespective of whether Ichoo is older or not, it was used rather to refer to Lagos and was most likely gotten from the Benin due to their Close association to the Benin more than the Ijebu

Unfortunately, the scholars beg to differ with you. Lol.

D’Avezac states categorically that the native word Èkó (which may be alternatively spelt as: ‘Eco’ or ‘Eko’, etc.) is one and the same as Dutch rendering “Icho”.

And guess the African polity mentioned in relation to this word (Èkó)! NO, he never said Bini. The answer he gave is IJEBU. Swallow the bitter pill.

Oh, and he never mentioned that the Dutch’s “Ichoo” is older. Neither did he mention that the Ijebus’s is – Other sources gave such information.

And such sources state that the native version (attributed here to the Ijebus) is the older.

[s]I see that u are already losing ground in this argument... Originally, in ur earlier post, u said

^{Formerly it was known as Eko, which name it had received before any settlements were made on the island.”}

https://www.nairaland.com/6365528/lagos-belongs-benin-obanikoros-grandson/19#98139439

Now u deliberately made changes to the quotation.... That's a clear sign of fear ..

Instead of working with this ur later quotation, I'll rather break down the earlier one because u are a strong proponent of the earlier the better ...

Now according to ur earlier qoutations, u believe that the land was named Eko by people who had not yet make any form of settlement on the land...

U are a big comedian guy ...

Now, if there was no form of settlement on that land, how did they get to name the land before they decided to settle on the land...... It also implies they never saw the land sef

This once again cast doubts on the debunked Alan Burns folktales [/s]

I expected you to be a knuckle head, and you didn’t disappoint.

If you had ever been familiar with how quotations work, you would have refused to embarrass yourself as you just did here.

Now to educate you and other illiterates like yourself:

Whenever you find square-bracketed word/s within a quotation; the writer already communicates that such words which are absent in the actual passage quoted are being introduced to provide clarity.

E.g. 1: “… before any [residential] settlements …”

On the flip side, IF the writer introduces quotation marks for the square-bracketed word/s itself; then the writer already communicates that such words and the square brackets are found in the actual passage quoted.

E.g. 2: “… before any [“residential”] settlements …”

In sum, the word "residential" (as in E.g. 1 is introduced by myself to qualify the word “settlements” thus leaving no doubt as to the contextual meaning of the word “settlements”.

This helps clarify (without leaving any confusion) then that the author’s use of the word “settlements” is not as synonymous with “payments”, etc.

Rather it is as synonymous with “towns”, “communities’, etc.


Having said that, the location of Lagos island as I have noted before was originally reserved by its owners (who live on the neighboring Iddo-island, etc.) as a fishing and agricultural area under their control and ownership – “ereko”.

Rather, how about a complete breakdown of the word Eko from Benin...

[s]The Eko in Benin can be derived from when Benin conquered Lagos in late 16th century and made it a base from where they controlled trade in that area...

It was originally Eko-amen because of the waters that surrounded it and was corrupted by the Europeans to Korame and the Yorubas to Eko... Now that's the truth [/s]

No the author makes it clear the word “Èkó” is associated with Yoruba rather than with Benin. So, this at once disproves your KoNaMi or TsuNami gymanstcs.

The only Lagos name associated with the Binis is “Koráme”. And even this word is said to have been known earlier to the Portuguese.

This therefore at once disproves your KoNaMi or TsuNami gymanstcs.

Moreover, your so-called cOnQuEsT is what I have been waiting on you to prove. I hope you eventually do someday.

U didn't use evidence rather u used ur language to make ur point while forgetting that the Benin had been present in Lagos and effected a lot of changes contrary to ur dead, weak and spineless Olofin regime and a suddenly new person who no one have heard except u...

Yes, my language because of the following reasons:

(1) Your KoNaMi and TsUnaMi gymsnastics are flawed because the Portugues have been using the same word earlier.

So, they didn’t derive it from the Binis who used it only later.

(2) The Portuguese have had contact with Lagos since the late 1400s.

Guess what! They’ve used this word since that time – that is, before the Binis’s usage and before the Binis’s immigration to Lagos took place.

(3) The word “Curamo” is NOT a Portuguese word – hence it is a local Lagos name encountered in Lagos during the Portuguese contact with the Yorubas in Lagos.

(4) An alternative name for Lagos till today is Eko-Aromi-re (Aromire’s Eko), named after the Awori noble (from Iddo island) – Chief Aromire -- who pioneered the use of the island for fishing and pepper farming.

The fact remains, Eko was named by Benin

D’Avezac (1845) disagrees with you unfortunately.

[s]… Now... When D'Avesac made his comparison, there was no need for him to use the term older when referring to Dutch reports

What he was actually comparing was the Portuguese and the Dutch term Not the Dutch and Ijebu word...[/s]

His use of the term older is to show that Curamo was older than all the terms there Esp the Dutch's own...

This is a shameful falsehood.

To quote his words again. He writes:

“the Binis refer to it by the name Koráme [which is] recognizably the Curamo of the older Portuguese’s accounts; just as Eko represents the Dutch hydrographers’ Ichoo”

It is clear again that the word “older” is used in comparing only two things, namely: the Portuguese’s “Curamo” and the Binis “Koráme”.

The other comparison follows afterwards and only identifies the Yorubas’s “Èkó” to be the same word as the Dutch’s “Ichoo”, just as the Portuguese’s “Curamo” is one and the same with the “Binis’ “Korame”.

Nothing is said here about which is older of “Eko” and “Ichoo”.

The only use of "older" was for the Portugues's "Curamo" and the Binis's "Koráme -- and the Portuguese's are said to have used it earlier.

Its logical to know that the Dutch reports has been existing since before the 16th century ...way older before the term "Eko was first heard.

Lol. Another ignorant falsehood.

Please provide your evidence which shows that the Dutch’s “Ichoo” exists before the Yoruba’s “Eko”.

In conclusion, The French author implied that the European terms were older than the African terms compared with.

FALSE! Nowhere does the author say this as I have quoted above.

His only use of “older” is when comparing the Portuguese’s “Curamo” with the Binis’ “Koráme”.

And he concluded that (while these two words are same) the Portuguese’s is older than the Binis’s.

The Dutch reports has always be existing before the term Eko was first heard...

Please provide such evidence.

The origin of the Dutch reports can be determined with proofs but not the Yorubas own which will at best be inflated by the arrogant Yorubas

Again please provide such evidence.

Please provide such evidence of “proofs” and “inflated”. I’d be waiting,

But while I wait for such non-existent evidence, bear the following in mind:

(1) The word “Curamo” (or any of its rendering) already features the word “Eko” within its structure.

(2) “Curamo” was used by Portuguese to describe Lagos since their first visit – late 1400s.

(3) Portuguese are the first Europeans to visit the coast of W/Africa – they did in the late 1400s.

Its safe to see that u are already making concessions in this argument... U have already dropped a point that korame was derived from curamo to this

I am not sure where I said that is no longer the case.

But I must say that this is an outright lie... A barefaced lie to say the least

You could have at least done ur research before telling this big lie... Maybe u thought u were conversing with ur fellow Yoruba zombies

Now..The term Curamo in Portuguese means cure...

The term "Lago de Curamo" means lakes of healing ..... …

No, No “Curamo” does not meaning a thing in Portuguese because it is not a Portuguese word.

Please provide your dictionary which says “Curamo” means “Cure”. And how such relates historically to Lagos. Lol.

Now the term Curamo which is said to derive from the Yoruba doesn't mean anything that aromire Eko means...

No Lagosian calls “Lagos” as Armoire Eko. Stop transposing words to fulfill your naturally fraudulent Bini inclination.

I was clear when I stated that an alternative indigenous name for “Lagos” till date is “Eko-Aromire”.

It is also older than the term Eko

No evidence for your claim. Id be waiting for your evidence.

In fact, this claims is false.

U didn't even define the word to compare with Curamo which was supposedly borrowed from Yoruba...

Compare what and what? Apples and oranges? Lol.

Even.if u did, it won't mean the same as it is in Portuguese … Samuk gregyboy Etrusen valirex edeyoung areafada2

(1) “Curamo” doesn’t mean a thing from Portuguese.

(2) “Curamo” first came up when the Portuguese first contacted Lagos in the late 1400s.

(3) “Lagos” till date is alternatively called Eko-Aromire (roughly translated as: “Aromire’s Lagos”)

(4) Even the dullest creature in the world knows the logical conclsion from the aforementioned three facts, viz. “Curamo” is a foreign rendering of the native phrase: “Eko-Aromire”.


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Etinosa1234:
Samuk gregyboy Etrusen valirex edeyoung areafada2

Samuk gregyboy Etrusen valirex edeyoung areafada2 … Now... The historical connection in the Benin account is rather namely
A)Paternal Connection - Ashipa was the grandson of the oba of Benin...

But it is several decades too late. There are earlier accounts (several decades earlier) which states that Ahsipa is a Yoruba man from Isheri.

Moreover, Ashipa has no meaning in Bini language, only in Yoruba language does it have a meaning without any twist and turn.

If you desperately twist and turn the word “Ashipa” to make it sound like a Bini word, then you will end up with a word that can NEVER be the name of any human or even animal. Try it.

This corroborates Ulsheimer account when he said, the town Lago was inhabited by Benin soldiers and Four military commanders...

Neither is Ashipa a Bini as demonstrated above, nor does the presence of combatant within the confines of a fence in 1603, show that.

Moreover, it has been demonstrated that while Ulsheimer’s notes say nothing about how the Binis’s predecessors first migrated to Lagos in the 1500s; the later presence of armed persons in one of the towns in 1603-4 is seen in the same notes to be in response to a relatively fresh situation that called for a military intervention.
I have already expounded on the background to this while citing relevant pages from Ulsheimer’s notes.

There is no chance that an inconsequential isheri man would have become king... We are not foolish like ur tribe

Cry harder, Egharevba is too late in comparison to all the earlier accounts that identified Ashipa as a Yoruba native from Isheri.

Lets even take ur story into consideration... Is it that because there are no fine gals in Yoruba land that Ashipa found the love of his life in his only trip to Benin or was it because he was already a Benin man

Because Bini ladies are easy lays. Oranmiyan proved, Ashipa confirmed it, and Italy stamped it.

Clown, ur story is in contradiction with the only eyewitness account in 1603...

No eyewitness account contradicts any aspect of the Lagos account as I have repeatedly demonstrated.

Now the place Lago, is the same place being called Lagos island presently and that's the domain of the oba of Lagos...

This has been debunked in the first comment of this present series.

No where in history either Yoruba or Benin was there any king recorded to have ruled before ashipa.....

Then yo’ve not read the refernces I have been citing. Lagos island (and the other adjacent islands as well as many towns on the mainland) was under the ownership and control of the ruler based at Iddo –whose title was Olofin and later Oloto.

~ A. C. Burns, 1929, p.42-44.

Rather in a collaboration with Ulsheimer, Lago was ruled by 4 military generals who controlled trade under the directive of the Oba of Benin

Ulsheimer also ruled “Lago”?? Wonderful – He must have been the great-grandson of the then Oba of Benin. LMAO!

Anyway, what Ulsheimer described is one town (which he visited) wherein lived the Binis their boundary.

In this town did Ulsheimer observe them settling disputes amongst themselves within the confines of that fence they lived and sending messages back home – just as a man would settle disputes within his household.

So Lago as said earlier was a large town and not just any settlement as u tend to put it ...

A town is a settlement – And nowhere does Ulsheimer used the comparative adjective “larger”, nor did he use the superlative adjective “largest”.

Wrong as usual... Tao... What do u gain from lieing

Rather the eyewitness account present there never noted abt any superior power present except the Oba of Benin... This is 300 years before ur Alan folktales

This has already been debunked where I stated that:

“Ulsheimer is a voyage surgeon who visited this one town (not the other towns on the island) and was writing about the internal activities there. And he stayed in Lago only for a limited period – a few weeks at most.

Your childish statement is like arguing that there is no CDA Chairmen in your uncle’s neighborhood, because on your visit to his house – he was the only one controlling his household throughout your short-lived stay”

His account clearly says that Lago, which is now referred to as Lagos island or Lagos at best belonged to the Oba of Benin

FALSE!

First of all, the “town Lago” of Ulsheimer’s notes is NOT equivalent to today’s “Lagos”.

Also, the town “Lago” of Ulsheimer’s notes is NOT equivalent to today’s “Lagos Island”.

Instead, the “town Lago” of Ulsheimer’s not is one of the different towns on Lagos island as at the year 1603-4 of Ulsheimer’s visit.

And Ulsheimer’s note (from oral information) that this specific town is owned by the Benin king corresponds ONLY to ownership from conferment by the native owners.

This is the only ownership-type confirmed by evidence. Not from conquest from the 1500s (which he says nothing about – refer to my earlier comments), nor from aboriginal right.

Nowhere in history apart from ur folktales was Lagos island under iddo island...

I would have though you agreed that Lagos island as a whole was owned by the Aworis – the closes of whom lived on the neighboring island of Iddo.

You agreed with my fOlkTaLeS. What has suddenly changed.

… This has been debunked consecutive times by Ulsheimer account...

I would love to see where it was debunked.

U need to sit down, take a glass of water and ask ur self why ur Lagos account is not given popular recognition in contrast to the Benin account?

Neither Wikipedia nor popularity is the definition of what is factual. I would have expected that you should know that.

The Lagos account is several decades earlier than Egharevba’s later day redaction.

Apart from ur folktales once again, there is no account of Iddo being powerful over Lagos island . In fact if the iddo was once controlling Lagos island, it is safe to say that their influence was already weakened and destroyed by the Benin in 1603...

You have to make up your mind.

In any case, whatever you come up with of these two has already being debunked above.

In Ulsheimer notes that u have cited, he never noted abt any other power than the Oba of Benin

This has been repeatedly debunked above.

This same Iddo people were also terrorised by the Benin.

In Oserhieme Osadolor's book, "The military system of the Benin Kingdom" --thanks to christistruth0--, referencing NAI CSO 26/1 53103. T. F. Baker, 1949. “Intelligence Report on the Eti-Osa Area of the Ikeja Division, of the
Colony Province,” p.6-7,he says

^{However, the eighteenth century wars in the Eti-Osa area of present day Lagos in
Nigeria, were not directed in suppressing rebellions. They were wars of continued expansion
of the frontiers of the Benin Empire. During the Benin invasion, refugees fleeing from Iddo
were said to have resettled and founded the villages of Ikate and Ajiran.50 The village of Aja
traces its origin to this period of Benin invasions and the ancestry of its first settlers to Benin
itself.51 It is probable that the invasions were renewed attacks because the area had come
under the suzerainty of the Oba of Benin in the sixteenth century, during the era of warrior
kings.}

This goes to show that to explain why Ulsheimer never talked abt any superior power in Lagos other than the Oba of Benin because the Oba was by far greater, powerful and influential than them

The said Eti-Osa wars here are said to have commenced in the 1700s.

If so, this has nothing to do with the immigration of the Binis into Lagos in the 1500s. Neither does this have anything to do with Ulsheimer’s visit of 1603-4.

Moreover, Osadolo’s opinion here of “expansion” is an opinion from the year 2001 – that is; several decades later than even Egharevba’s account itself, and more than a century later than the Lagos accounts.

…In a former thread, u said that ashipa used and dump the Oba and that after ashipa, no one paid any longer....... Now this

Provide your evidence for where I stated that “after Ashipa, no one paid any longer”.

My position instead is that it was a case of use and dump, because the Yoruba monarchy was asserted as an independent one (with your Oba’s backing), and the tribute eventually stopped (after 10, 000 years if you like) despite the continued existence of the monarch and its continued generation of revenue.

Before we go further, who ordered Oba idewu Ojulari to commit suicide if the dynasty was established by loyalty as u call it

First of all, the only source on this are the Lagos sources.

Secondly, the account never said the Oba of Benin “ordered” Idewu-Ojulari to vacate the throne. Neither were the Lagos people and chiefs comfortable with Idewu-Ojulari’s tyranny.

Being against his chiefs’ will and the people’s will – his Chiefcommunicated with the Oba of Benin to help in his removal.

Yet, the Oba didn’t merely order him to leave – he gave him choice of warfare of leaving in which case he took the later and committed suicide.

At the background to all this – the same Lagso account also states that the monarch is a Yoruba monarchy and that the Benin king was instrumental to its foundation when he backed the Yoruba man Ashipa in its foundation.

Note that if the Oba of Benin position in lagos was actually ceremonial, Oba Akitoye would have not refered to the Oba of Benin in his letter

Meditate on the meaning of undisputed before u go further

This has been debunked severally. The letter says absolutely nothing about a paternal link between Ashipa (the Yoruba progenitor of the dynasty) and the then Benin king.

Neither does the letter say a thing about any conquest of Lagos by any Benin king. The letter makes no such statement.

The most said by the letter is the existence of a strong tie between the Lagos monarch and the Benin monarchy; and this is clarified by the Lagos account which identifies the basis of this srong-tie with the fact that a Benin king was the patron and backer of the Yoruba man Ashipa who founded the Lagos monarchy.

The date of writing doesn't matter here... Thats not even a point here.... Even as early as the Lagos account was, it didn't even gain more recognition among historians than Egharevba's own

Provide your evidence for this.

Also, if The Benin were to write their own the same time as Lagos, they would have still said the same thing as Egharevba in 1952

Evidence ??

Lastly, given the lack of information then, Egharevba never wrote in response to any Lagos account

Lack of informtion you say ?? Ignorant falsehood galore.

Egharevba had access to some European’s writings actually.

Yes... There are no earlier records so stop saying one is more correct than the other

And the earliest available writings say Ashipa is a Yoruba man.

This name agrees with the Yoruba language. And this name disagrees with the Bini language – even if you twist it. Lol.

[Continues]

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[Continued from the foregoing]

Etinosa1234:
Of course they are... U just chose to be blind to see it... In fact, the records show clearly that Lagos was a vassal of Benin From Idewu suicide to Dosumu refusal to pay tributes on the ground that they are now under the British

The refutation for this from my above comments should still be fresh in your mind. Lol.

All that's needed to know is that there were Aborigines present in Lago who were defeated by the Benin who established a new dynasty in Lagos

I’d like to see your evidence that some natives were living on the site of the said "town Lago” which was designated to the Binis in the mid-1500s.

Yes they have to allude to it because they were under the Benin Empire... They had no choice but to be loyal to the main government...

If by “under the Benin eMpIrE” you refer to the latter-day Benin redaction which claims that Ashipa (the progenitor of the Lagos monarchy) is a Bini man, or that Benin conquered Lagos; then such idea is a proven FALSEHOOD.

But if by “under the Benin eMpIrE”, you refer to the early account which states that the original connection between the Lagos monarchy and the Benin monarchy is rooted in the support enjoyed by the Yoruba progenitor, Ashipa from the then Oba of Benin when Ashipa desired to establish an independent monarchy on Lagos island; then such is factual.

One of the senior classes of chiefs consists of the Akarigbere who were descendants of the Benin soldiers that conquered Lagos... And they were kingmakers headed by Eletu Odibo which is corrupted from Olotu Odibo in Benin …

I am not sure what crap you’ve been reading.

Firstly, your repeated claim of “conquest’ is without any evidence.

Secondly, the original Bini immigrants were only conferred with an area of land on the island as I have repeatedly demonstrated -- and this was circa the mid-1500s.

Moreover, the Akarigbere class chiefs were originally the Binis who were appointed by the then Oba of Benin to accompany Ashipa (the Yoruba progenitor) on his return back home to Lagos.

The purpose of sending Binis to accompany him is so that the he (the Yoruba man, Ashipa) would be constantly reminded (by those Binis) not to forget the interest of Benin and Binis is his government.

This again proves that he himself was not a Bini in the first place.

Now Benin suzerainty over Lagos was not based on appreciation... If it were,
1)Idewu would not have committed suicide.

This has been debunked.

Moreover, it is a general act of Yoruba bravery for a king to take his own life if his reign becomes so tyranically unpopular that he becomes rejected by his people.

And like I have already demonstrated earlier the Oba of Benin didn’t order him to take his own life.

[/s]After Osinlokun died in 1829, his son Idewu Ojulari became king. (Aderibigbe)
Idewu was said to have been unpopular because of his extreme avarice towards his
leaders and followers. (Law 1978, p. 55) The chiefs were said to have communicated
their displeasure to the Oba of Benin, who sent him a skull, a sword, and a message
that ‘the people of Lagos would no longer recognize him as king’ this led him to take
his life. According to Aderibingbe, “this luckless king died without an heir in 1834,
having been forced to commit suicide because of his unpopularity”. (Aderibigbe:16)

Another source says
" Idewu Ojulari's unpopularity may have been caused by the economic downturn in the slave trade following the prosperous years of Osinlokun's reign. His chiefs reportedly communicated their displeasure with Idewu to the Oba of Benin, who sent him a skull, a sword, and a message that "the people of Lagos would no longer recognize him as their King". Idewu Ojulari, recognizing the skull as an invitation to take poison and in the sword a call to battle, he committed suicide."

References: Mann, Kristin (2007). Slavery and the Birth of an African City: Lagos, 1760-1900. Indiana University Press, 2007. p. 47.[/s]

This has been clarified in the foregoing comment and in details in a comment before that.

The clarification thus debunks the propaganda you seek to perpetrate and perpetuate.

2) Akitoye would have used the word ceremonial rather than undisputed in his letter to the British
Undisputed means unchallenged, unquestioned...

Now if Lagos and Benin were bound by gratitude, the position of Benin would have at best be ceremonial in the politics of Lagos, but instead, they had the most powerful influence in Lagos.

No, not at all. Yoruba kingdoms generally have strong affiliations with the prior-existing kingdom(s) which were instrumental to its founding.

In the case of the Eko-Yoruba kingdom of Lagos, Benin was that prior-existing kingdom. However the ties between these two was neither of patrilineal blood nor of conquest.

The tie was simply rooted in the original support and backing granted to Ashipa (the Yoruba progenitor of the Eko monarchy), by the then Benin king, when Ashipa desired to establish an independent monarchy on Lagos island.

Benin was the only kingdom remembered in the Lagos traditions to have provided any backing at the time, hence the strong undisputable ties between the Eko monarchy and Benin.

Whosoever the Oba chooses to be king of Lagos, he would be king,... Whosoever he removes will be removed...

The Oba of Benin doesn’t and didn't choose an Oba of Lagos. The Yoruba people of Eko choose their Oba.

The Benin king only confirms or acknowledges or recognizes whoever the people choose as their king.

This practice is only ceremonial by virtue of the fact that he cannot reject whoever the people choose.

However, he had the singular “undisputed” right to this ceremonial practice.

3)The British would not have acknowledged the Benin suzerainty over Lagos...

Kosoko was called to a meeting on the southern tip of the Lagos island,
however, he rejected the offer of friendship by the British and declined to sign the treaty
using the ingenious argument that Lagos was under Benin and the Oba of Benin should
be persuaded to sign the treaty on his behalf. To this Becroft responded, “it was decided
to collect such a show of force as the moment could supply, with the firm belief that
such force, judging from the character of African chiefs would have the effect by simple
demonstration of our power to cause him to accede to our terms” (Ajayi, 1965, pp. 75-
76).

Notice your double standards as I point it out below.

The British recognized Benin because the Lagos people confirmed such information to the British.

In this foregoing regard, you clearly have no problem with the confirmation given to the British by the Yoruba people of Eko.

However, the same aboriginal people of Eko confirmed in the same early breath to the British that the ties was simply rooted in the original support and backing granted to Ashipa (the Yoruba progenitor of the Eko monarchy), by the then Benin king, when Ashipa desired to establish an independent monarchy on Lagos island.

Suddenly, you’ve made a u-turn and hated the British and their early Lagosian informants. Wonderful!

Beecroft too gave explicit recognition to the Oba‟s authority in the town when
he addressed a letter to him before the expulsion off Kosoko

References: A.E Afigbo, "The Benin Mirage and the History of South Central Nigeria." Nigeria daily Magazine, 1998 no. 137
p.23

^{Later that year, when Kosoko successful repulsed the British attack, Consul John Beecroft wrote to the Oba of Benin declaring that "Kosoko, by opening fire on a flag of truce, had declared war on England" and therefore had to be replaced by Akitoye. He threatened that Kosoko had till the end of the month to surrender otherwise "Lagos would be totally destroyed by fire".}

References:Robert Sydney Smith. The Lagos Consulate, 1851–1861 . University of California Press, 1979. p. 27.

4) Dosunmu would have continued to send Oba of Benin tributes on the basis of loyalty ...But this is not the case

^{No better
fortune attended Oba Adolo‟s attempt in 1860 to re-instate Kosoko who had made his peace with
Benin, perhaps by promising to resume payment of the tribute. Adolo sent a message to the new
ruler of Lagos, Dosumu, informing him of his wish to place Kosoko on the throne. King Dosumu
replied that he only recognizes the British government now, not as in former times when Lagos
was under the king of Benin to whom annually a tribute was paid, and that he requested the king
of Benin would not send any more messages relative to the bringing back of Kosoko to Lagos}

[b]References:[/b]S. A. Akintoye, Revolution and Power Politics in Yorubaland, 1840- 1893, (London: Longman Group Limited,
1971)

On 4 March 1879, CO147/37, Governor Moloney reported to the colonial secretary another visit to Lagos by messengers from the oba of Benin who arrived in February and interviewed King Dosunmu and his chiefs as well as himself

References:Smith, Robert. The Lagos Consulate, 1851–1861 . University of California Press, 1979. p. 102.

In conclusion:

Lagos was a vassal of Benin Empire till 1851 when kosoko was dethroned

The aforementioned points cannot happen on ties gratitude

Cheers

And all these quotations like the ones you cited before them only state the very same thing that I’ve repeatedly stated, which is that:

There was a strong olden tie between the Lagos and the Benin monarchies. No more, no less.

Do these quotations say the tie was rooted in conquest?? Absolutely No.

Do these quotations say the tie was rooted in some patrilineal relationship?? Absolutely No.

The fact thus remains (in the light of the early writings which are non-contradicted by any earlier writing) – that:

The Lagos monarchy was established by the Yoruba man (Ashipa) – but with the support and backing of the then Benin king.

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TAO11:
At no point did I state (or even suggest) that the area in question was beyond a part of Lagos island.

Also, at no point did I state (or even suggest) that the Binis didn't at a point own a part of that island – just like other groups did.

My repeatedly emphasized clarification, however, is that ownership arises from different forms one of which is conferment.

I have demonstrated this to be the actual case of the Binis in Lagos, and I would do so again.

IF by the phrase "domain of the ... Eleko" you refer to the town from where the Eleko rules; then your statement here is WRONG -- even though both the Eleko's town and the town 'Lago' lie/d on that same island.

To prove this, refer again to Ulsheimer's notes. The town 'Lago' -- as used by Ulsheimer -- "is a frontier town." [the key word here is frontier].

This proves that the town 'Lago' is, in fact, sandwiched in-between two other towns on that island.

I have simplified this repeatedly with a simple and basic image. [See my highlights in the first attachment below].

Having simplified that again with that very simple image, now be informed that:

(1) Isale-Eko is the town from where the Eleko rules the island.

(2) Isale-Eko covers the westernmost (or left side) part of the island.

(3) Town 'Lago’, on the other hand, was a sandwiched town in-between other towns on the island.

(4) In conclusion: The town 'Lago' as described by Ulsheimer is not one and the same as the town from where the Eleko rules.

Great!

. Lol. The word "large" is not a comparative adjective, neither is it a superlative adjective. In other words, 100 different towns in an area can all be large.

There is nothing in Ulsheimer's notes about any comparative detail of the size of the town 'Lago'. Please direct me to one such comparison if they exist.

Lol. The map I attached is simply a "map of Lagos" by Google Maps.

The word "Lago" and the three colored ellipses in my attachment are not Google Maps's. Those are my mine.

And I incorporated those into the map simply to highlight the sandwiched nature of the ”town Lago” as gathered from Ulsheimer's notes.

Nowhere did I mention or (even suggest) that the apparent respective sizes of my ellipses have anything to do with Ulsheimer’s notes or with the point I was making.

Lol. This is what you're supposed to prove. You just committed the circular reasoning fallacy again

May you please direct me to the passage from Ulsheimer's notes from where you got all these, I pray thee? Lol.

Lol. Your impression here of relative size, relative strength, and relative influence as the basis of “Ulsheimer[’s] … recognition” is actually ignorant, laughable, and false.

Instead, Ulsheimer was a German who was the appointed surgeon for a Dutch trade voyage from Amsterdam to the “Guinea Company” -- a company of the Dutch located in West Africa.

The voyage actually casts anchor at places (NOT on the basis of such places size, strength or influence, BUT) on the basis of a pre-existing trade relationship between such places and the Dutch’s “Guinea Company”.

The evidence for this comes from Ulsheimer himself where after the voyage had sailed through Cape Palmas and Quakqua, then through Cape Three Points and then to Komenda where they first cast anchor. He writes:

“Finally we cast anchor at Commenda (a village) and traded with the Blacks for a while.”

~ Ulsheimer’s Voyage of 1603-4, p. 21.

Let’s hope that Benin kingdom is not a village too since according to you, the voyage could only have casted anchor at places with identical status.

To be clear, some other West African polities had their trade relationships with other Europeans.

A case in point is the Ijebu kingdom which had been in trade relationship with the Portuguese since a hundred-odd years before Ulsheimer’s visit of 1603-4.

Lol. No, he didn’t.

First of all, the “town Lago” was simply one of the towns on that island -- not the whole of the island. [See first attachment for yet another reminder].

Secondly, there is no evidence that the Aworis were living on that specific “town Lago”– as at the time when the Binis’s migrated to Lagos.

Thirdly, the only available evidence shows that that island as a whole was simply a location reserved by the Aworis (who were living on the adjacent island of Iddo and elsewhere) for agricultural purposes.

Having clarified that, Ulsheimer’s mention of soldiers living inside the “town Lago” in the year 1603 is in no way indicative of your idea that their predecessors originally came in into that location by conquering it.

Ulsheimer’s notes about soldiers in 1603 simply tells us nothing about how they came in three before 1603. Neither does his notes tell us anything about how that location was originally acquired in the past.

Anything beyond what he witnessed or as told in in 1603 is no more than your personal heavy assumption.

Regarding the original arrival of the Binis into that island and why they later bore arms:

The earliest writings on this specific matter remain the British records of Lagos history. These records for the umpteenth time state that:

Binis’ original penetration into the island was amicably after having being granted such permission by the aboriginal people.

After some time since the first Bini settlers had settled in peacefully and had been living as one of the groups there; Binis were drawn into conflict with some town(s) on the mainland.

This appears to explain the transition of the original Bini settlers from amicable settlers into their successors who later bore arms and lived as a combatant unit because they were responding militarily to a relatively fresh situation that called for such.

In fact, this Lagos account is largely corroborated by Ulsheimer’s notes where it alludes (on page 24) to an unspecified Benin-owned town which is apparently closer to the town Lago than it is close to Benin.

His notes show that the people there (unlike those at the town Lago) happened to have “rebelled” against their king, and those at the town Lago have apparently been tasked with the reponsibilty of returning them back to status quo.

It continues to show that those at the town Lago (acting on behalf of the king) requested his team for help since they by themselves “could not easily conquer” the town -- because like “Lago” it is also “walled”; and they, at Lago, have no canon.


This is a huge corroboration from Ulsheimer’s note regarding why he observed those of town Lago to be living in a military formation. They had simply been attempting to respond militarily to a relatively fresh situation that called for such.

All of these (from his notes or from the Lagos account) clearly has nothing to do with how their predecessors originally migrated for the first time from Benin city to Lagos island.

Lol. No, it is neither illogical, foolish, nor unusual that a period of understanding and calm should follow a prior period of conflict and unrest between two parties -- especially if one of the parties later shows the latter inclination.

Great!

IF by the word "proved", you refer to the eyewitness notes of Andreas Joshua Ulsheimer, then your task, as I have demosntrated above is light years away from the word “proved”.
And IF by the word "proved", you refer to the statements of the Benin Chief Egharevba, then such statements are simply too late in the light of earlier contrary materials – Ulsheimer’s account and the Lagos account.

This is exactly what you are expected to prove in the light of the early materials. I’ll patiently wait. Lol.


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Lol, too many conjectures in his argument. He bores me.

kiss the truth!

TimeManager:

Lol, too many conjectures in his argument. He bores me.

kiss the truth!

That’s what desperation causes.

Bini boy wants to be a Lagosian. LMAO!

Who no like better thing?

Obalufon:
Battle field ,Recruit in battle field are you kidding me ,Do you even have a field in Benin ? your people were smoked with TNT and rained on with hot sulphur and brimstone.. wages of your sins ..God purposely sent the British to lay waste to your demonic land

kiss the truth!

TAO11:
That’s what desperation causes.

Bini boy wants to be a Lagosian. LMAO!

Who no like better thing?

kiss the truth!

gregyboy:




Lol, you're just pained beyond control

I will do more damage to the yorubas you better start gathering your hate on time

The British did everything to hide the real fact on the war due to the unjust reason they ambushed benin,

Benin fell in 3 months, guerilla warefare lasted 2 years more

The British would say benin fell in a day, 7days, a month
Their figures is not static, because they wrote to hide the truth about the war, they wrote after the war to label Benin racially weaker than them to impress the white the superior race they are


Truth be told, if benins didnt fall, they wouldn't have been a southern protectorate and you yoruba lots wouldn't have been colonize and you would have still have you African pride intact

But instead you decide to insult the african kingdom, that stood for all southerners including your Yoruba people

After Benin was conquered the southern protectorate was formed aren't you aware

No wonder the stupid awolowo was afraid about the fact that if the benins leave western region they will go back to Form the benin empire, who would rule over them and her neighbour's

You're doing well in comedy


kiss the truth!

gregyboy:




Lol, you're just pained beyond control

I will do more damage to the yorubas you better start gathering your hate on time

The British did everything to hide the real fact on the war due to the unjust reason they ambushed benin,

Benin fell in 3 months, guerilla warefare lasted 2 years more

The British would say benin fell in a day, 7days, a month
Their figures is not static, because they wrote to hide the truth about the war, they wrote after the war to label Benin racially weaker than them to impress the white the superior race they are


Truth be told, if benins didnt fall, they wouldn't have been a southern protectorate and you yoruba lots wouldn't have been colonize and you would have still have you African pride intact

But instead you decide to insult the african kingdom, that stood for all southerners including your Yoruba people

After Benin was conquered the southern protectorate was formed aren't you aware

No wonder the stupid awolowo was afraid about the fact that if the benins leave western region they will go back to Form the benin empire, who would rule over them and her neighbour's

Kkkkkkkkk. This guy just dey deceive himself.

TAO11:
But it is several decades too late. There are earlier accounts (several decades earlier) which states that Ahsipa is a Yoruba man from Isheri.

Moreover, Ashipa has no meaning in Bini language, only in Yoruba language does it have a meaning without any twist and turn.

If you desperately twist and turn the word “Ashipa” to make it sound like a Bini word, then you will end up with a word that can NEVER be the name of any human or even animal. Try it.

Neither is Ashipa a Bini as demonstrated above, nor does the presence of combatant within the confines of a fence in 1603, show that.

Moreover, it has been demonstrated that while Ulsheimer’s notes say nothing about how the Binis’s predecessors first migrated to Lagos in the 1500s; the later presence of armed persons in one of the towns in 1603-4 is seen in the same notes to be in response to a relatively fresh situation that called for a military intervention.
I have already expounded on the background to this while citing relevant pages from Ulsheimer’s notes.

Cry harder, Egharevba is too late in comparison to all the earlier accounts that identified Ashipa as a Yoruba native from Isheri.

Because Bini ladies are easy lays. Oranmiyan proved, Ashipa confirmed it, and Italy stamped it.

No eyewitness account contradicts any aspect of the Lagos account as I have repeatedly demonstrated.

This has been debunked in the first comment of this present series.

Then yo’ve not read the refernces I have been citing. Lagos island (and the other adjacent islands as well as many towns on the mainland) was under the ownership and control of the ruler based at Iddo –whose title was Olofin and later Oloto.

~ A. C. Burns, 1929, p.42-44.

Ulsheimer also ruled “Lago”?? Wonderful – He must have been the great-grandson of the then Oba of Benin. LMAO!

Anyway, what Ulsheimer described is one town (which he visited) wherein lived the Binis their boundary.

In this town did Ulsheimer observe them settling disputes amongst themselves within the confines of that fence they lived and sending messages back home – just as a man would settle disputes within his household.

A town is a settlement – And nowhere does Ulsheimer used the comparative adjective “larger”, nor did he use the superlative adjective “largest”.


This has already been debunked where I stated that:

“Ulsheimer is a voyage surgeon who visited this one town (not the other towns on the island) and was writing about the internal activities there. And he stayed in Lago only for a limited period – a few weeks at most.

Your childish statement is like arguing that there is no CDA Chairmen in your uncle’s neighborhood, because on your visit to his house – he was the only one controlling his household throughout your short-lived stay”

FALSE!

First of all, the “town Lago” of Ulsheimer’s notes is NOT equivalent to today’s “Lagos”.

Also, the town “Lago” of Ulsheimer’s notes is NOT equivalent to today’s “Lagos Island”.

Instead, the “town Lago” of Ulsheimer’s not is one of the different towns on Lagos island as at the year 1603-4 of Ulsheimer’s visit.

And Ulsheimer’s note (from oral information) that this specific town is owned by the Benin king corresponds ONLY to ownership from conferment by the native owners.

This is the only ownership-type confirmed by evidence. Not from conquest from the 1500s (which he says nothing about – refer to my earlier comments), nor from aboriginal right.

I would have though you agreed that Lagos island as a whole was owned by the Aworis – the closes of whom lived on the neighboring island of Iddo.

You agreed with my fOlkTaLeS. What has suddenly changed.

I would love to see where it was debunked.

Neither Wikipedia nor popularity is the definition of what is factual. I would have expected that you should know that.

The Lagos account is several decades earlier than Egharevba’s later day redaction.

You have to make up your mind.

In any case, whatever you come up with of these two has already being debunked above.

This has been repeatedly debunked above.

The said Eti-Osa wars here are said to have commenced in the 1700s.

If so, this has nothing to do with the immigration of the Binis into Lagos in the 1500s. Neither does this have anything to do with Ulsheimer’s visit of 1603-4.

Moreover, Osadolo’s opinion here of “expansion” is an opinion from the year 2001 – that is; several decades later than even Egharevba’s account itself, and more than a century later than the Lagos accounts.

Provide your evidence for where I stated that “after Ashipa, no one paid any longer”.

My position instead is that it was a case of use and dump, because the Yoruba monarchy was asserted as an independent one (with your Oba’s backing), and the tribute eventually stopped (after 10, 000 years if you like) despite the continued existence of the monarch and its continued generation of revenue.

First of all, the only source on this are the Lagos sources.

Secondly, the account never said the Oba of Benin “ordered” Idewu-Ojulari to vacate the throne. Neither were the Lagos people and chiefs comfortable with Idewu-Ojulari’s tyranny.

Being against his chiefs’ will and the people’s will – his Chiefcommunicated with the Oba of Benin to help in his removal.

Yet, the Oba didn’t merely order him to leave – he gave him choice of warfare of leaving in which case he took the later and committed suicide.

At the background to all this – the same Lagso account also states that the monarch is a Yoruba monarchy and that the Benin king was instrumental to its foundation when he backed the Yoruba man Ashipa in its foundation.


This has been debunked severally. The letter says absolutely nothing about a paternal link between Ashipa (the Yoruba progenitor of the dynasty) and the then Benin king.

Neither does the letter say a thing about any conquest of Lagos by any Benin king. The letter makes no such statement.

The most said by the letter is the existence of a strong tie between the Lagos monarch and the Benin monarchy; and this is clarified by the Lagos account which identifies the basis of this srong-tie with the fact that a Benin king was the patron and backer of the Yoruba man Ashipa who founded the Lagos monarchy.

Provide your evidence for this.

Evidence ??

Lack of informtion you say ?? Ignorant falsehood galore.

Egharevba had access to some European’s writings actually.

And the earliest available writings say Ashipa is a Yoruba man.

This name agrees with the Yoruba language. And this name disagrees with the Bini language – even if you twist it. Lol.

[Continues]

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We know the truth.

Lagos means "lakes" in Portuguese, the language of the first European immigrants known to visit the settlement, then already inhabited by the Awori and Bini and known to them as Oko. From the first contacts with the region until the early 20th century, another Portuguese name for the city that was interchangeably used was Onim.
From the crowning of Ado as its first Oba, Lagos (then called Eko) served as a major center for slave-trade, from which then Oba of Benin Ado and all of his successors for over two centuries supported - until 1841, when Oba Akitoye ascended to the throne of Lagos and attempted to ban slave-trading. Local merchants strongly opposed the intended move, and deposed and exiled the king, and installed Akitoye's brother Kosoko as Oba. At exile in Europe, Akitoye met with British authorities, who had banned slave-trading in 1807, and who therefore decided to support the deposed Oba to regain his throne. With the success of the British intervention, in 1851 Akitoye was reinstalled as Oba of Lagos. In practical terms, however, British influence over the kingdom had become absolute, and ten years later, in 1861, Lagos was formally annexed as a British colony.
Until today, the Oba of Lagos is the head of all the Kings in Lagos State and his status is different from other Obas most of whom were later given back their crowns and staff of office only within the last 40 years except for the Alahun of Imoore Oba Haruna Okikiola who went to late justice Savage enquiry to proof that the Oba of Imoore is a first class Oba that had his crown from ile-ife that should not be classified amongst Obas that only got their crowns recently. Those who got their crowns back were the original land owners (Olofin's children). The present day Lagos state has a higher percent of this sub-group who allegedly migrated to the area from Isheri along the Ogun river. History has it that the Awori were actually from Ife , the cradle of Yorubaland. The Awori people are a peaceful people initially not taken to warfare. Due to war, those from the hinterlands , like the Ekiti, ran towards Isheri, which at that time had more than one Olofin who were heads of settlements about 1400AD. When the people fled from the hinterlands most of them scattered again, some to Iro, to Otta , Ado, others to Ebute Metta i.e. three landing places - Oyingbo, Iddo Island and Lagos Island (Eko). The Olofin that brought those who went to Ebute-Metta was Ogunfunminire, later known as Agbodere . With the full commencement of the war about 2000 moved to Iddo Island , others to Otto Awori or Otto Ijanikin towards modern-day Badagry . Those from Ekiti Aramoko came to Ebute-Metta, Iddo and then Ijora. After the demise of Agbodere, the name Olofin became the name used to remember him; the title of Oloto was given to his successor. When one of his sons becoming the Oloto his other children parted ways to what is known as visible settlements in present-day Lagos. Until the coming of the Benins, Lagos's geographic boundary was Lagos Mainland. Lagos Island, the seat of the Oba of Lagos, then consisted of a pepper farm which belonged to the Aromire family (One of Olofin's sons) and fishing posts. No one lived there. The name Eko was given to it by its first king, Oba Ado, during its early history; it also saw periods of rule by the Kingdom of Benin . Eko was the land area now known as Lagos Island where the king's palace was built. The palace is called Iga Idunganran , meaning palace built on the pepper farm . Oba Ado and the warriors from Benin, as well as some of the indigenous people who sought safety, settled in the southern part of Eko, called Isale Eko . "Isale" literally means "bottom", but must have been used to indicate downtown. The first king of Lagos, Oba Ado, apart from having two sons also had a daughter Erelu Kuti, who begat Ologun Kutere , who later became king. Shokun his brother, who was more aggressive and whom the Erelu suspected could plan a palace coup, was given a chieftaincy title, "Onile- gbale", and a palace just behind the king's palace. This was the first time that a Chief would be appointed and installed at the same time as a King's coronation. Oba Akitoye who ceded Lagos to the British was Oba Kosoko's uncle. Oba Akitoye was the first Oba not to be buried in Benin. Prior to this, all the Kings of lagos were buried in Benin. They passed on taxes to the Oba of Benin until the British came and explained that there was no need to send taxes to Benin anymore since they were no longer under Benin suzerainty. It was during his reign that the direct influence of Benin on Lagos ended. Oba Kosoko believed in the slave trade and was at loggerheads with the British, hence his dethronement and flight, first to Badagry and later to Epe, Nigeria where he founded kingdoms that still exist today.

harmargedon:
Lagos means "lakes" in Portuguese, the language of the
first European immigrants known to visit the settlement,
then already inhabited by the Awori and Bini and known to
them as Oko. From the first contacts with the region
until the early 20th century, another Portuguese name for
the city that was interchangeably used was Onim.

From the crowning of Ado as its first Oba, Lagos (then
called Eko) served as a major center for slave-trade, from
which then Oba of Benin Ado and all of his successors for
over two centuries supported - until 1841, when Oba
Akitoye ascended to the throne of Lagos and attempted
to ban slave-trading.
Local merchants strongly opposed the intended move, and
deposed and exiled the king, and installed Akitoye's
brother Kosoko as Oba.
At exile in Europe, Akitoye met with British authorities,
who had banned slave-trading in 1807, and who therefore
decided to support the deposed Oba to regain his throne.
With the success of the British intervention, in 1851
Akitoye was reinstalled as Oba of Lagos. In practical
terms, however, British influence over the kingdom had
become absolute, and ten years later, in 1861, Lagos was
formally annexed as a British colony.

Until today, the Oba of Lagos is the head of all the
Kings in Lagos State and his status is different from
other Obas most of whom were later given back their
crowns and staff of office only within the last 40 years
except for the Alahun of Imoore Oba Haruna Okikiola who
went to late justice Savage enquiry to proof that the
Oba of Imoore is a first class Oba that had his crown
from ile-ife that should not be classified amongst Obas
that only got their crowns recently. Those who got their
crowns back were the original land owners (Olofin's
children).
The present day Lagos state has a higher percent of this
sub-group who allegedly migrated to the area from Isheri
along the Ogun river. History has it that the Awori were
actually from Ife , the cradle of Yorubaland. The Awori
people are a peaceful people initially not taken to
warfare. Due to war, those from the hinterlands , like the
Ekiti, ran towards Isheri, which at that time had more
than one Olofin who were heads of settlements about
1400AD.
When the people fled from the hinterlands most of them
scattered again, some to Iro, to Otta , Ado, others to
Ebute Metta i.e. three landing places - Oyingbo, Iddo
Island and Lagos Island (Eko). The Olofin that brought
those who went to Ebute-Metta was Ogunfunminire, later
known as Agbodere . With the full commencement of the
war about 2000 moved to Iddo Island , others to Otto
Awori or Otto Ijanikin towards modern-day Badagry . Those
from Ekiti Aramoko came to Ebute-Metta, Iddo and then
Ijora.
After the demise of Agbodere, the name Olofin became
the name used to remember him; the title of Oloto was
given to his successor. When one of his sons becoming
the Oloto his other children parted ways to what is known
as visible settlements in present-day Lagos.
Until the coming of the Benins, Lagos's geographic
boundary was Lagos Mainland. Lagos Island, the seat of
the Oba of Lagos, then consisted of a pepper farm which
belonged to the Aromire family (One of Olofin's sons) and
fishing posts. No one lived there. The name Eko was
given to it by its first king, Oba Ado, during its early
history; it also saw periods of rule by the Kingdom of
Benin .
Eko was the land area now known as Lagos Island where
the king's palace was built. The palace is called Iga
Idunganran , meaning palace built on the pepper farm . Oba
Ado and the warriors from Benin, as well as some of the
indigenous people who sought safety, settled in the
southern part of Eko, called Isale Eko . "Isale" literally
means "bottom", but must have been used to indicate
downtown.
The first king of Lagos, Oba Ado, apart from having two
sons also had a daughter Erelu Kuti, who begat Ologun
Kutere , who later became king. Shokun his brother, who
was more aggressive and whom the Erelu suspected could
plan a palace coup, was given a chieftaincy title, "Onile-
gbale", and a palace just behind the king's palace. This
was the first time that a Chief would be appointed and
installed at the same time as a King's coronation.
Oba Akitoye who ceded Lagos to the British was Oba
Kosoko's uncle. Oba Akitoye was the first Oba not to be
buried in Benin. Prior to this, all the Kings of lagos were
buried in Benin. They passed on taxes to the Oba of
Benin until the British came and explained that there was
no need to send taxes to Benin anymore since they were
no longer under Benin suzerainty. It was during his reign
that the direct influence of Benin on Lagos ended.
Oba Kosoko believed in the slave trade and was at
loggerheads with the British, hence his dethronement and
flight, first to Badagry and later to Epe, Nigeria where he
founded kingdoms that still exist today.

How did Benin get to Lagos ? I need answer they can't possibility flown over Ondo Ilajes and Ijebus , they are not Sea farer .They can't even Swim not to talk of building a boat to travel to Lagos they were never known for taming any beast of burden use in long distance travelling ..Benin Came to Lagos through Trade with the Portuguese .Portuguese brought Benins to Lagos Island .. they were used as stooge and slave kidnappers for the portuguese

TAO11:
Liar! No where does the above 1948 video documentary say that the Ooni of Ife is not a king but a priest.

You’re just simply being yourself — a fugly liar!!

Rather, the video states at timestamp 0:14 and I quote here below:

“The Ooni of Ife, spiritual leader of over three million Nigerian tribesmen, was one of the important arrivals”.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=989866004541431

And that is accurate because all Yoruba kings (that is, including the Benin monarch) are considered in, Yoruba religious belief, to be demi-deities — ikeji-õṣà.

Since the Ooni of Ife is the leader of all the monarchs of Yorubaland, this fact thus rightfully makes him the spiritual leader of all Yorubas (and Binis).

Notice that this 1948 meeting which held in Lancaster house and entitled “The African Conference in London” had the Ooni of Ife representing Nigeria in his capacity as leader of the south-west ‘tribes’ — which included the Binis among others.

This leader of the then south-west ‘tribes’ was not deemed to be the Alaafin Oyo, nor was it deemed to be the Omonoba n’Edo, but rather the Ooni Ife.

Note that he wasn’t yet honored as a British knight at the time. Neither was he yet a Governor at the time. He simply represented Nigeria in his capacity as a tribe leader — a tribe which included the Binis.


In addition to the above 1948 documentary, the attached pages below are from a 1903 publication entitled “Native Crowns”.

These attached pages from the paper shows the published summary of a proceeding in which the Ooni of Ife was clearly and rightfully identified as the leading monarch for all of Yorubaland.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12915204_3bb91d9be2ea45c5afd3f41e88728f3e_jpeg_jpeg645a15f18177fc5fe10c58c7cc98cb9c
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12915205_d21b9942ec6b49db8268dddb52125c5d_jpeg_jpeg5b7a9464bca8be76b7a6cbdd30d76898
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12915206_ea1bb7bbeb514c029bf799998b655ca3_jpeg_jpeg94b9f98f3c978fcbb8823afc65a47cbc

~ The Editor, “Native Crowns,” Journal of the Royal African Society, April 1903, Vol. 2, No. 7, Oxford University Press.

I am pleased to always rubbish you all over Nairaland.

Cheers!

Cc: Ideadoctor, gomojam, id2019, djevino, 9jamustchange, BornRicch, Ddaji, J111333, excanny, Mysticwebb, Yebosola, Derrylatei, AustineJohn908, Cashsteady, owobokiri, forgiveness, bularaz, TimeManager, kilonshele101, 8BitGee, Daum, edo3, RuggedSniper, hicomm17, lionshare, ekesol, Demogorgon, Rumxy, Paganizonda, gwafaeziokwu, NGPatriot, macof, MelesZenawi

You should put all these your explanations in writing, I mean you should write a book on these

Do you know what an empire is?

Benin was a kingdom not an empire and you will never find a text older than 10 years that puts Benin and empire in the same sentence. Benin people felt short and found the need to upgrade their history with nothing to back it up. And I say these people may not even be Nigerians at all because there were black people the English came with to attack ijebu villages in what is now called Lagos. Where are these people today? Is it possible that the British rewarded them with the place now called Benin after killing off the Yoruba, the original owner of the land as they did everywhere they went including America? Why did Oranmiyan go to Benin if it wasn't Yorubaland? Why is Itsekiri language word for word like my ijebu dialect? How did the Olukumi get lodged in Delta state?

jneutron4000:
Broda tire o, do you actually know that they were speaking Yoruba (Ile ife dialect) inside the palace of the Oba of Benin before they stopped around the 19th century. The two major empire in the Southern Nigeria is the Benin empire and the Oyo empire both came through Oranmiyan a Prince from Ile Ife. The only thing about the Benin empire is that it is a mixture of Yoruba from Ile Ife and the Aborigines of Idu/Igodomigodo. Also there was no name like Yoruba around the 14-15 century until Ajayi Crowther used it to Unify all of us with same Language,
culture, traditions, norms and value system and from the same source Ile Ife, so during Benin did not want to be part of us, even when they were in Western Region, it was Oba Akenzua that was the major force that pushed for the creation of Mid West region.

This is the exact reason history was removed from schools in Nigeria. Some people have a lot of things to hide and cover up.

At least 70% of Lagos is ijebuland and will forever be. Every expenditionist into Lagos made treaties with only the ijebu under the Awujales, from the Portuguese to English.

And to the Bembe guy, no one can blame him, he's not a Yoruba but mixed and wants to take part of Yoruba glory and give to his father's lineage. This is what happens to Yoruba who use their thigh brain to think rather than the one on their shoulders. This is why we keep telling Yoruba to stop marrying from Nigeria of you can't find Yoruba to marry, find Ghanaians or whites to marry, they won't come and claim your land tomorrow. All these so called hybrid children dragging Yoruba name through the muds from Shina Rambo to this Benbe who have Edo mothers may not even have Yoruba blood in them, yet destroyng our name. Yoruba have lost so much to Nigeria and still losing. Yoruba are better off without Nigeria, we don't need Nigeria but my people will never listen.

And to the "Ijebu seized land" talking head, you don't seize what belongs to you. You can prevent others from stealing it but you can't seize it since it's yours. Ijebu owns most part of what is called Lagos today and nothing can change that.

Christistruth00:



For the one thousandth time Oba of Lagos himself telling you at 5.45 Minutes "Benin are not the owners of Lagos'


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOsp9VLRFno


Why are some people coveting Lagos morning evening and Night time, in their dreams when asleep and when they are wide awake like this?

Fake News cannot make Lagos Your own Lagos is YORUBALAND no amount of wailing or weeping can change that fact.

Lagos is God's gift to Yoruba just as Onitsha is God's Gift to Igbos

Get over it

Bump.

Christistruth00:



Eko is the way the Yoruba Ijebu pronounced ereko after ereko Market on the Island where King Kosoko's European and Slave Markets were located and where he traded with the Ijebu who sold him slaves from the hinterland

Eko (ereko) means field in Yoruba and ereko ile is used to describe an Island

ereko Market is still on Lagos Island today!

There is Eko Ende (Field at the back ) and Eko Ajala ( Ajala's field) Towns in Osun State .

Eko Ende was one of the Locations of the Jalumi War of 1878 against the Ilorins

Lagos Island belongs to the Aromire family till today. Aromire was a son of Olofin an ile Ife Prince who was the first to settle Lagos with his followers. Aromire was a great lover of Water. He is said to have Swam to Lagos Island on first sighting it. .

The Oba of Benin needed a Port to do business with the Portuguese who advised him that Lagos Island was a good location so through an agreement the Awori Aromire family gave him Isale Eko part of the Island just as Sabon Gari is given to outsiders in Kano. The Oba of Lagos is not even the king of Lagos Island he is the King of Isale Eko which was the location of the international Slave Port . The Island belongs to the Aromire Chieftaincy family who are Awori that Migrated from ile Ife and are the Children of Olofin Ogunfunminire


The People of the Historically important Yoruba town of Otun Ekiti in Ekiti state migrated from Lagos in the 15th Century and share the same ancestry with the Awori of Lagos the revisionists are not aware of this History and are just making up lies as they go along.


Some people have tried to distort Awori History out of Selfishness.





From Osifekunde's 18th Century Slave Narrative

""nous l'a appelee Eco, et c'est ainsi que la designent les yebous... Benin, qui lui applique le nom Korame"

Translation:

"Eco(Èkó) is the name given to it by the yebous (Ijebu)... The Benin call it Korame"

Futhermore, the text says
".. Korame etait unie a sa metropole par la langue de terre resserree entre la grande lagune et la mer; mais des longtemps les yebous se sont empares..."
"Korame (Lagos) was formerly larger, included a metropolis between the Great lagoon and the sea but for a long time the yebous (Ijebu) seized this area"

Futher the text says
"dont l'extremite orientale a ete envahie par les pirates Ouyo; et Korame est restee isolee au bout de la grande lagune, continuant a recevoir du Benin"
"the Eastern part of this area was invaded by pirates from Ouyo(Oyo) and what is left of Korame is the isolated end towards the great lagoon, this is all that is controlled by Benin"

Impressive!
Eko Aromire...