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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / The Bible And Its Uncertainties (3792 Views)
Flip Flop Doctrines Of Jehovah's Witnesses And Their Uncertainties / Who Copied Who?(bible And Quran) / Is This Where Jesus Endorsed Asoebi In The Bible? (2) (3) (4)
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Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by Kobojunkie: 7:00pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
budaatum:OK |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by Kobojunkie: 7:05pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
budaatum:OK 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by budaatum: 7:09pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
Myer: Should? Are you like those who refuse to accept what you see with your own two eyes and so try to impose your will and desire on what is, or will you understand what you see for what is? The problem is that you seek for doctrine, as in, a belief or set of beliefs that you must hold on to, rather than to 'understand' that which you read, which is why you are confounded by the contradictions. If you study the encounters between Jesus and those he constantly argued with, you will find they were trying to impose doctrine while he conquered them with understanding. It is as Paul said. "When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child, but when I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me" and understood. Anyway, it seems to me as if you have not yet begun. Here's some contradictions in the Bible for you to further wrap your head around. |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by Ihedinobi3: 7:30pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
Myer: I think you mistake me. I am not saying that you must meet my demands before I answer you. I am just asking you to consider the possibility that answering what you're demanding will not answer the main thing in your OP. You said in your OP that the Bible is inconsistent ("just when you think you understand anything about the Bible, you find another verse that proves otherwise" ) and you later stated unequivocally that the Bible contradicts itself. You must understand that these are very positive claims. They are not statements of inquiry or doubt. You are absolutely certain -- judging by your own words, that is -- that the Bible contradicts itself. You even told someone that he needs to study the verses in question to see the contradictions. In other words, you cannot possibly be asking that anyone demonstrate to you what the Bible means by any of the things you posted. Rather, you are demanding that they prove you wrong about your claims. Now, if you take a stand like that, it is usually impossible to reverse it. You have offered no reason for why you believe that the Bible contradicts itself. You just offered Bible verses that you believe are contradictory and demand that Christians show that they are not. But what guarantee do you offer any respondent that you will judge their arguments or answers reasonably? None. That is my problem here. I enjoy discussing the Scriptures. I enjoy helping others understand them. It is even my job to do so. But it is not reasonable to spend time answering questions for people who are not really asking them. If you believe that you could be wrong in your position, I would be happy to engage you. If you don't, it would be a waste of time for me at least. Perhaps this is just a pastime for you as it is for so many people on this board, so you don't mind the frivolous debate. But it isn't for me. This is a job for me, even if it is a very enjoyable one. So, in order to do it well, I have to make reasonable use of my time and energy. I would be happy to engage the specific examples you provided, but I am requesting that we establish first whether or not my answers matter at all. If they don't, there is no end to the verses that any one can post as proof of the Bible's contradictions and there is no end to the ridiculous excuses that are thrown up to reject any defence offered by a gifted and prepared pastor-teacher for the Bible's statements. That is all I am saying. Better to not start the discussion at all than to waste time quarreling over something that we both have a fundamental disagreement on. |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by Nobody: 7:36pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
budaatum: Lol, calm down. The application of the logos to Jesus can be interpreted however a Christian understands it or according to the doctrine of the Christian sect they belong to regardless of john’s intention or your understanding. Why are they ignorant bleeps? Because they don’t interpret their religion the way you do? You act as if the “logos”’is a fact and that there aren't multiple definitions of the concept. |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by Myer(m): 7:38pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
Kobojunkie: In Physics, the laws of Classical Physics do not apply to Quantum physics. Could it not also be that Jesus was teaching "classical physics" while the Holyspirit teaches "Quantum Physics"? |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by Kobojunkie: 7:41pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
Myer:I used the Mathematical field for a reason - Mathematics is a universal language and is the closest that many of us are exposed to that can compare. |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by Myer(m): 8:01pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
Ihedinobi3: You amaze me, especially considering that you claim to be a teacher. Your job is to teach and preach the gospel regardless of whether it 8s believed or accepted. Imagine a whole Jesus who knew he would be rejected and even crucified, still came to preach the gospel and due for the same world he knew would murder him. Yet you're already deterred just by your assumption that I would argue with your stand? All I would have expected was for you to sow your seed as inspired by the spirit, albeit by quoting the word and with prayers have faith that it would perform the work which God has sent it to perform. But seems to me you're more concerned about your ego that the great commission. I reiterate, no one is forcing anyone here, if you choose to make your input, good. If not, it's still OK. |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by budaatum: 8:08pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
Martian: Why do you like telling me to calm down, Martian? Do you seriously believe I sit in my house getting agitated because you can not understand what it is that I am saying? What kind of buda would I be if I get agitated so easily? Trust me when I say you amuse me when you think I can be uncalm. First, I never talk religion. Which I will define for you here as "the crap that others have created and told you you must believe inside your head". Second, whenever I talk to you Martian, I believe I am talking to a non-earthling who has therefore been able to escape the religionising of earthly humans. I must say that I am often amused to find that humans are capable of creating crap in Martians heads too, lol. The word "Logos" has quite a lot of theory behind it in Greek philosophy prior to its inception into Christianity. So while you may be convinced of the multiple definitions of the concept of logos as given by the numerous diverse sects, you might want to study the history of the word itself instead of just claiming it means whatever anyone may decide it might mean since it must be obvious to even Martians that not all human understandings are equally as valid as all others. I mean, you might think as a sect that buda is not calm for instance, while buda in buda's sect might be as calm as, for the sake if it let's say an avocado if just for the mere fact that I'm calmly about to eat one, don't you think? |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by Myer(m): 8:12pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
Kobojunkie: I know. But just like Mathematics, Physics is fundamental to the study of how things and the universe work. Hence my analogy as well. If Physics as significant and fundamental as it is can have different layers, could it be that the message of Christ and the Holyspirit could also be layers? Jesus categorically said, there were things he could not teach his disciples who had followed him for about 3½ years. Meaning it could not be discerned by following his words alone except by the Holyspirit. Just like Jesus, Peter discriminated against Gentiles. In fact he occasionally avoided healing or even preaching to Gentiles. But when the Holyspirit was given, Jesus appeared to Peter instructing him that no to call the Gentiles unclean and in fact go and preach to Cornelius and his household. This would eventually lead Paul to become the Apostle of the Gentiles (uncircumcised). Now, this would seem to contradict Jesus' teachings by the word. But by the Holyspirit, we can see there's an evolution in his target audience. |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by Nobody: 8:27pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
budaatum: Bla bla bla. You might want to consider that your so called understanding is just another interpretation of an abstract idea. The Greeks themselves had multiple interpretations of it but your highfaluting self think your interpretation is correct. Yes, it means whatever they decide it means according to their interpretation which is just as valid as yours. |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by budaatum: 8:40pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
Martian: But of course it is just another interpretation of an abstract idea. Have I claimed otherwise, Martian? Or do you just not know that is how we humans learn? I am of course relying on you using your own mind to interprete and understand the abstract idea to reason and make sense of the abstract idea, but rather amusingly, I'm beginning to realise such things are far beyond the minds of bla bla bla Martians. Remain calm now. Lol. |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by Kobojunkie: 8:44pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
Myer:Meaning it could not be discerned by following His words alone except by the Spirit of God? Well, the average individual is not able to discern, say discrete math, unless under the guidance of an instructor in the field either. In a similar manner, the Spirit of Truth, the Spirit who was inside of Jesus Christ, serves as the one and only Teacher to all those who are followers of Jesus Christ, helping them discern all Truths that have to do with Jesus Christ. Myer:Jesus Christ did not discriminate against the gentiles in much the same way that Peter did. Jesus Christ was sent to the lost sheep of Israel, the Jews. However, while He was with them, He encountered gentiles and did indeed engage them as He could. Peter was sent into the world by Jesus Christ but apparently he, Peter, did not understand that that included even to the Gentiles, and so the Spirit of Truth, revealed that to Him as we read of. Myer:Note what it was that was supposedly revealed to Peter in His Vision, and read the passage below... to understand when the Spirit of Truth commanded Him to also not that which God has made unclean. The Spirit of Truth took from what Jesus Christ had already taught His disciples, revealing to Peter a truth he was still missing. The Truth He, the Spirit of Truth recess to His servants are Truts rooted in the very teachings of Jesus Christ. If after this, Peter still resisted associating with Gentiles, it was likely Peter himself hesitated, and not because of some problem with Jesus Christ's teaching of the truth revealed Him by the Spirit of God. It is hard to break from that which you have been raised/indoctrinated with, to instead follow different teaching, in Peter's case, the teachings of Jesus Christ. The same can be said of those of us who chose to follow Him even today, especially those who do it later in life. Myer:What? I am aware of that opinion, but I don't think that is entirely the truth of what in fact happened. Matter of fact, it is recorded, that the other disciples went to other parts of the world beginning when the believers were scattered out of Jerusalem. The Spirit of God Himself dispersed them all to different parts of the world as He would. From my researching what I learnt what became of the Apostles, I came upon on information that suggest they indeed while out in Gentile-world. E.g. Andrew is suspected to have gone as far east as Georgia where there is to this day there a legend that Andrew was the first Christian teacher to make it to them. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_the_Apostle Myer:I don't see the contradiction which you declare. |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by Nobody: 8:52pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
budaatum:Calm, I am. You are the one who referred to Christians who don’t share your particular interpretation as “ignorant fuqs”. Don’t worry about my interpretation of it. It’s as real as the leprechaun sitting on your shoulder and as useful as a three dollar bill. |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by Ihedinobi3: 8:55pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
Myer: Very well. I have made my input. It is clear that it doesn't suit you. As for what my job is, isn't it interesting that you now deign to define it for me? Not only are you so confident that the Bible contradicts itself, you now also know for certain that a pastor-teacher's job is to teach whether he is believed or not. As with your first claim, I know that you will not substantiate that claim either, so there is no point asking you to do so. For what it is worth, we are commanded by the Lord Jesus to not give holy things to dogs or cast our pearls before swine lest they trample these precious things underfoot and turn around and tear us to pieces. That is what the Bible actually says. Since my job is defined by the Bible and not you, I would say that I shouldn't care how you are pleased to define my job if your definition runs counter to the Bible. As for being deterred by the fact that you would argue with my stance, I think that even my comments here would show that you are making yet another false claim. I have only said that I will not commit myself to never-ending arguments and quarrels with you. By all means, argue with me if you want. I am a teacher, not a dictator. What I won't do is waste my time in frivolous debates that accomplish nothing of value for anybody. After all, it is the Bible that tells teachers to stay away from such things as well. Please, feel free to accuse me of anything you please. If you want to hear what I believe, I will gladly tell you. But claiming that I don't care as much for the great commission as I do for my ego is no proof at all that the Gospel is your concern. It is nothing more than bait for me to wade into meaningless debating with you. I have more than a couple thousand posts on this one account alone to show that I am not shy of teaching the Gospel under all kinds of circumstances. The fact that you want a frivolous debate is the only thing that is stopping me here. |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by budaatum: 9:06pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
Martian:That is a blatant lie, Martian. I never said "Christians who don’t share your particular interpretation as “ignorant fuqs”". In fact, you will hardly find a single Christian who shares my particular interpretation, and they can not all be ignorant fuqs! And if I say Christians are ignorant fuqs, what the heck would I have to call Martians? You should read when I interpret Genesis 3 and tell how Eve was the first Biblical scientist and see how many say buda is satan and must burn in hell. But hey, some believe what they are told to believe while some of us will pluck the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil to see for ourselves if its true that on the day that we eat we shall surely die or not. |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by Nobody: 9:26pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
budaatum: budaatum: You did call them ignorant fuqs because they don't share your interpretation as if the logos is some actual entity with an objective definition and not an idea that can be interpreted multiple ways. budaatum: Bla bla bla. I'll let your christians resolve the interpretations, the poisonous fruits that kill slowly, and the loving concept of hell. |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by budaatum: 9:32pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
Martian: No I did not! It's your "most don't know" that I was referring to Martian, and not all Christians as you would like to believe! Martian: |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by Nobody: 9:35pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
budaatum: You did. |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by budaatum: 9:36pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
Martian: Lol. Go on, say it again so you can really really believe yourself. |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by Nobody: 9:39pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by Nobody: 9:43pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
budaatum: lol 7 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: 48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. 49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, 50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord. |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by budaatum: 9:52pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
Martian: The same buda wrote the following, but of course it would be far too much for you to comprehend. budaatum: |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by Nobody: 9:56pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
I have read a lot of Spiritual books.
The Bible, The teachings of Buddah,
A few pages of the Quran, Theosophy
Books, Rosicrucian Books, Hermetic
Books and so on. All these books contain little bits and pieces of truth. BUT NOT ONE OF THESE BOOKS CONTAINS THE WHOLE TRUTH. Such a Book would be endless. But there are a group of Books that explains Spiritual truths in a Simple, Clear and Concise way. The truths are explained in such a way that a seven year old would fully comprehend without the confusion that characterises most religious books. The series of Books I am talking about are: THE ASCENDED MASTER TEACHINGS Click The link to download free pdf books. https://iamfree.co.za/bridgetofreedomfreeebooks 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by Nobody: 9:57pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
budaatum: You and the Sagan quote are like oil and water. |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by budaatum: 10:00pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
Martian: I believe you Martian, lol. How you getting on with the other book you can not read? |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by Nobody: 10:03pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
budaatum: The being that finds itself in the world and has to learn to live authentically by finding it's own meaning during the duration of time it exists? Go back to reading. Maybe you can catch up |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by budaatum: 10:07pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
Martian: Says a Martian who has not bothered to learn to live on earth but thinks he has? You will never catch up Martian! |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by Nobody: 10:08pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
budaatum: You are molasses compared to me child. |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by budaatum: 10:17pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
Martian: You keep creating crap inside your head to believe Martian. I'm certain if you try really realy hard your beliefs just might become the truth. |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by Nobody: 10:21pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
budaatum: Crap and beliefs are your purview. Your "understanding" will remain crap. |
Re: The Bible And Its Uncertainties by budaatum: 10:24pm On Mar 10, 2021 |
Martian: And you expect the crappy ignorant belief you uttered above to matter one single iota to buda? Go on. Say it seriously. Make buda really laugh. |
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