₦airaland Forum

asalimpo:
I've heard this argument b4 - it's deluding and false.
God's original plan was for man to subdue the earth and have dominion over it. How could they do that from a living all their lives in a garden? God gave man the ability to reproduce and instituted marraige there- what was man's offspring to do? Live in a garden? NO! Spread out and subdue the earth.

Have you ever written a logical test before??
now answer the simple question from the passage;

Yahweh's Original plan for man worked perfectly as planned and no modification, improvement nor restitution of whatever was required.

A) True
B) False

Notice the past tense ( Gods original plan WAS )

asalimpo:
Mister. I answered you cohorts question.
First by showing that it is a leading question? And hence invalid?
and two by explicating biblically about the genesis of the issue.
If you can't think - slink back into the background and remain in ur anonymous shadows- because an issue of this nature is very slippery and requires a level of objectivity which a biased fellow,certainly most atheists, will not be willing to cede.

Let me start with the issue at hand.
1) What is the logical criteria for judging the success or failure of the Objective?
2) What is the objective that was to be attained by God?

Can you, realmindz or any other atheists, first establish the objective criteria?
Then clearly spell out the objective? From there we can then proceed?

Coming here to throw, childish leading questions is immature and dense. Grow up.

Did God's original plan work?
What was the original plan? - Can u think? Do u know what a leading question is?
Then do you see how realmindz, used his seemingly innocent question as a leading question? While trying to
maintain that he is objective?

After that he degenerated into emotional empty nonsense of him being to enlightened to engage logically in an argument. Pathetic.

You like stories, you intentionally complicated this just to find a place to hide.

Such is the way of religious folks, they like vague and complicated things just as a means of escape... Vague prophesies, vague criteria, vague ideas, vague promises...just name it, anything vague is their means.
Someone will tell You he has a prophesy that something good will happen if you have enough faith?

Then what is something good, what amount of faith is required?. If nothing happens at all, you will say faith is not enough, how do you measure faith? Such is the way of religious folks. They live on deliberate vagueness..

In your attempt to defend a vague promise, you stated out specifically that Yahweh's Original plan for man was for man to dominate earth and live a happy life free from any form of strain. That is a clear objective which you stated.

asalimpo:
I've heard this argument b4 - it's deluding and false.
God's original plan was for man to subdue the earth and have dominion over it. How could they do that from a living all their lives in a garden? God gave man the ability to reproduce and instituted marraige there- what was man's offspring to do? Live in a garden? NO! Spread out and subdue the earth.

Now based on that objective, I asked a simple question can we say that the original plan has been successful? in conclusion did that original plan work perfectly ??

So why the complication again? is it too much to answer? Why crying victim all over the thread and bringing sentiments and emotions. just answer the question since we have our objective?

asalimpo:

Have you ever tried to make a point to someone far below the level of comprehension,?
The level of what COMPREHENSION? You have not said anything logical in all posts you've made so far.
So what LEVEL OF COMPREHENSION ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?
You ask a leading a leading question.
Degenerate into emotional drivel.
Cannot counter or back up your claims logically. Then make empty boasts here of operating a superior intellectual level.
You are simply empty and hollow.
Make your points and make them logically and let's see what u are driving at.
Like i said b4 , you're not the first atheist and will not be the last, - atheists have argued with non-atheists long b4 u came along and many arguments have been conducted in an atmosphere of mutual respect without
resortions to low blows of personal attacks. The fact that you cannot argue logically or intelligently shows how empty and hollow u are.
Make ur shallow points and lets move on from there.

lol, this guy is back, there is nothing emotional about this and unfortunately I dont care abou your feelings. The height of your hypocrisy is unforgivable and too obvious to be ignored so sorry sir, I cant continue the conversation with you because it's based on denial, lies and pretence.

Just answer the fvking question you refused and you expect me to give you respect?.

Ok good, man is at fault, Yahweh is not to be blamed, Adam should have obeyed etc bla bla bla but answer the simple question


IN CONCLUSION, DID YAHWEH'S ORIGINAL PLAN WORK? YES OR NO

farewell young lover.
You died without a Vision and purpose.



I blame this on telemundo

SirMichael1:
Now I've been seeing threads, comment and post from the male folks complaining about how a woman/lady/girl has nothing to offer except sex. I think that reasoning is totally flawed.

A woman has many things to offer apart from sex and that's why people stay married for long. The problem ain't the ladies, the guys have the bulk of the problem and that is, we don't want anything from them except sex. Yeah yeah, I know I'm a guy and this is treachery and I could be trialed for treason but that's the truth.

Most times, you see folks on NL asking how to have Sex with a girl, not even his girlfriend but someone he just met and is taking her out on the first date.

While guys are strategizing ways on how to bed a girl on the first date, the ladies are just thinking about how fun it will be. Needless to add, and how they're gonna decline his sexual advances because surely, there's gonna be.

So guys, what do you want apart from sex.

BTW, please do no say something like "How about she pays for the date, gaddamnit!" Or something similar to that, money shouldn't be part of it 'cause we're supposed to provide.

Some guys are really taking the monetary aspect at the emboldened to heart. Now I ask this... Where's your responsibility as a man? The prelude to marriage should tell what the marriage would look like. I for one think that a lady solely depending on a guy is out-rightly wrong but withholding cash 'cause you don't wanna spend on her is out-rightly dumb. Taking care of the home with the wife included is the job of a man. Take it or leave it! The only people who find the spending on a lady dumb are the people who have no idea how to function in a marriage or what marriages entails. Unless you don't wanna marry her, then don't spend on her -then again, everyone should go into a relationship with the thoughts of marriage at the back of their minds. Capisce?

meeting a girl and she tells you she likes guys that can spend on her or from all indications, it is obvious she would never have gone out with you in the first place if you don't have something material she can gain.
Then you reason, of what use is this one if not to spend and get carnal rewards...girls are guilty most times.

A girl needs a serious relationship with a guy, she will prove it by the content of her brain and character that she has more to offer than the flesh

luqmanov:
you believe arabic numerals the common system of number notation used in many parts of the world today came from egyptians and greeks. lol


anyway its just ur personal belief like you said. its just ur opinion so it doesnt count.


you want details of the discoveries i mentioned

trigonometry
Astronomer nasir al-din al-tusi created the mathematical disciplines of plane and spherical trigonometry in the 13th century and was the first to treat trig separately from astronomy

philosophy
al-ghazali latin name algazel (1058-1111) he wrote "The revival of the religious sciences"

also look up
Avicenna
Al-farabi
Averroes
and a host of others


astrology
where do you think is regarded as babylonia in modern times. this is a major center of islam if you ask me.

finally just a reminder that the mosque is a place for religious, spiritual and intellectual activity. And scientific research in islam served a purpose of dividing inheritances according to islamic law, in predicting the time of the new moon, when the next month began, and in determining the direction to mecca for the orientation of mosque and of daily prayers which are delivered facing mecca and a whole lot of other purposes. thank you

The only reasonable thing I've picked from your post is nasir al-din al-tusi . I just googled him and I've learnt something new.

But you are still far from simple reasoning, nasir al-din al-tusi was a scientist, mathematician and philosopher and his knowledge has absolute nothing to do with his religion.

I mentioned to you earlier that knowledge is no respect of tribe, religion, race. Be it Muslim, christian, buddhist, atheists, deists etc. Science is universal to all and your beliefs are irrelevant in scientific approaches.

You boasted to me that some scientific discoveries originated from the mosque?? I haven't seen any 1 that originated from the mosque. Nasir al-din al-tusi did not become a scientist by sitting in the mosque all day and reading only Koran all his life, he went out of Islam to seek those knowledge...
same as the other names you mentioned.
If I need you to just mention names of Muslims scientists, of course that is easy. we can mention a million. But what I need are inventions that have originated from the mosque

And please, Babylonians were not Muslims, so Islam can't make claims to their ancient civilisation.

Religion has always been known to enjoy and use the works of science to convey their messages.

I am still waiting for the scientific theories and inventions that originated from the mosque as you claimed earlier....

shadeyinka:
I just saw that you are not worth any intellectual time. Any intelligent dude would have no need of repeating this after my last post.

http://nypost.com/2010/07/21/blond-bombshell/amp/

http://www..com/talk/topic,42219.0.html

http://pmnewsnigeria.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Nigerian-white-baby.jpg

should I assume this is a careful way of evading the questions...? No I won't, your intellectual capacity is not sufficient to handle such reasonings. But don't worry, ignorance is bliss, Yinka son of Noah

shadeyinka:
The point of religion is NOT science. Religion speaks about things which science cannot verify such as Soul and Spirits.

My point about science is that nothing is absolute. If you know a little science, you will understand that science is mans way and language of understanding the workings and operations of physical phenomenon and possible utilization for mans needs.



Interestingly, its not only the bible that reported the global flood referred to as Noah's flood.

Point of correction!
The Chinese history is less than 3000 years probably older than the Babylonian empire and that's the oldest know human civilization.

If you look at ages stated in the same book, if I live to be 800 years old and I fathered children (no contraceptive then) calculate the potential number of children a person can have. Compound the statistics of my children, grand children and great grand children to the 7th generation having children. Clearly feasible.

You probably don't know that human beings both have dominant and recessive genes. It takes a small community to amplify even a recessive gene so that with time, great differentiation occurs.

My problem with you is that those who don't know much science put their ultimate hope and faith in science. As someone who studied a little physics, I know that all the laws of physics break down as we approach the time of the big bang. Do you know the implication of that?

It means that we cannot know how the universe was created from our current laws and constants. Also, the universe is expanding, it means that something caused it to start expansion: unfortunately, that cause is beyond time.

Science studies the Hardware of Life
Religion describes the Software of Life.

Science assumes everything about life is Hardware
Religion sees life as a fusion of Hardware and Software.

Science hardware religion software... lol, what a comic relief.


Pls I want you to tell me how a black man, white man, Chinese, and all races on earth emerged from a single family in a space of 4000 years.?
Dont just say things without thoughts, I put it to you that no amount of genetic mutation can produce all the races in the world in 5000 years.

6.5 billion people coming from a family of 8 in 4000 years is mathematical jargons.

the oldest civilisation may be in the range of 3500 years old, however, these civilisations did not start in a day. Many of the tribe people have been settled as far as 8000 to 10000 years. So tell me, where did these people come from? How come these civilisations made no mention of Noah their ancestor and a flood which wiped all of human race.


Let me tell you something, if a flood truly happened, you won't need the bible or Koran to tell you about it. It will be on the tongue of all tribes and cultures of the world passed from generations to generations. Your own very tribe will sing praises of Noah the jew, their ancestor and how your family was the one that survived the world flood. Don't you think so?

luqmanov:
first off i will start with our modern system of counting using base ten with the introduction of the zero into the numeric system because before then there was nothing like the value nought(zero). Not forgetting also the unitary system of fractions and use of decimal points.

This system of counting i suppose u will recall from ur arithmetic that it was originally invented by Islamic scholars.

moving on, even mensuration, measurement, trigonometry etc were first introduced by islamic schorlars in the mosque.


there are many others especially in the field of medicine, space research(astrology), architecture, philosophy etc. which u can research on ur own.


the ones i gave above are the more popular ones which a primary school pupil should atleast be aware of because i dont have strength for argument thanx

I told you to be specific to avoid complications, being specific by mentioning dates of discoveries, who discovered and names of the mosques these were derived from.

However, from the ones you mentioned;

1. system of counting, numeric system, base 10 I believe came from the Egyptians and Greeks. Pls let me know if otherwise with a source I can verify.

2. Trigonometry: Have you heard of Hipparchus the founder of trigonometry?

3. Philosophy: I know of Plato, Socrates...Greeks

4. Astrology: Babylonians and Greeks

luqmanov:
you are a funny character

you seem to be the one that cannot simply articulate a point constructively. If you check my initial post where i quoted you you will realise that my reply is in referrence to the point you made concerning leaving our modern research institutions and turning to the mosque for scientific answers. And i told u majority of science discoveries today have their origin in the mosque. So ur question has answered itself.


stay informed. Been educated is not enough

Ok, can we just get it straight...

please state the scientific discoveries that originated from the mosque?
It might be easy to make a claim, but it's necessary to back it up with facts

shadeyinka:
What do you think carbon dating of Live Organisms should be? Zero!?
Carbon dating assumes that C14 on earth has been uniform over the ages AND that the ratio of C12 to C14 in a living organism is constant. Could this be true even when we all know that the ice age (an example of global change) occurred over time in history and several other phenomenons occurred in time space of the earth? Carbon dating assumes that the earths magnetic field has been uniform with time. The fact that C14 is found in diamonds which are assumed to be billions of years old is a proof that the basis of carbon dating may be brilliant but skewed.

My ancestors and probably yours cannot relate any history of more than 10 centuries.

And the same man who reported that one man named all also reported a global flood that wiped out most living things. Crude oil is most likely the result of that.

Science is sometimes based on educated assumptions called theories: some can be proved outrightly, some are used until a counter proof is obtained. Don't forget that some years ago, science said that "An atom is the smallest Indivisible Particle of Matter".

Christianity isn't anti Science and the Bible isnt a Science text book.

Have you read anything about the Paracas Skulls of Peru? They were large and not formed through head binding.

Science has never claimed perfection and it open for review, all for its betterment. Religion is the opposite as it claims perfection and stands on ideologies that no longer apply to our current world and advancement in knowledge, however, religion is made to exist by the people who fight for those beliefs and they try to blend modern discoveries to fit into their religious views.

You mentioned Atom, yes it was once said to be the smallest indivisible particle of matter, further research led to more knowledge about the atom, such is science and that's it's beauty, it gives room for more knowledge and discoveries all to the betterment of humanity. Can that be said about religion,? does your religion not know all already? Is your holy book written centuries ago not perfect and need no further improvement. Such is the arrogance of religion in the midst of total ignorance.

Also, scientific approaches we all know aren't perfect but they are the most reliable we have, they give very good estimations with facts. Can you say that of your bible.?

Already aren't you ashamed of your Noahs story which happened about 4000 years ago?
Mr. Common sense should tell you that 4000 years ago, we already had Chinese dynasty, Egyptian civilisations, Babylonian civilisations, every fact beyond reasonable doubt proves that 4000 years ago, there were millions of people on earth as against the family of 8 as claimed by your bible??
Haven't you asked if Noah the Jew is truly your ancestor? Perhaps Noah populated the billions of people on earth today in 6000 years including blacks, Arabs, Chinese, whites etc....
Think my friend and don't fail logic

luqmanov:
if only u can do away with ur sensationalism and broaden ur mind for u to be able to reason objectively without applying religious sentiments but follow logic, reason and a few lesson from history.


You will agree with me that you are not as smart as you think you are.

But i will gladly redirect you on a logical note to go back in time and read through history so you can rediscover the muslim origins of the libraries, universities, laboratories, astrologers and sky gazing,hospitals and medical break through that originated in the mosque from research conducted by islamic scholars which are still under review in many institutions to date.

free your mind from hate. salam

You seem not to understand a very simple point. Scientific breakthrough, researches, innovations and technology has nothing to do with one's belief. Be a Muslim, Christian, atheist, Buddhist, Sango worshipper etc. Science is universal, knowledge is for those who seek and it is no respect of tribe, race or religion.

So tell me, what is the importance of your religion, isn't it irrelevant?

you claim to be logical, pls apply that logic without sentiments and derive solutions that have been applied from the Koran which have been major contributors to human advancement.

Or is it the promise of heaven and threat of hell??

hopefulLandlord:
@asalimpo, you're not answering realmindz question, alll you did so far is preach


"Did Yahweh's original plan work?"

Yes/No

methinks the question actually exposes you cuz if you say No, its a problem and if you say Yes then everything is as Yahweh wanted

the guy is in a checkmate, there is no way to escape that question other than dancing around the bush

shadeyinka:
Really?
And the ape-man had enough memory and intelligence to give names to all the animals?

With Adams sin actually came the law of Death and Diminishing returns.
With Adams sin, man lost touch with the spiritual: he now has to directly link up with God or Satan to change events in the spirit rhelm.
With Adams sin came wars, disease and natural calamities.

You got it wrong bro!

According to the bible, Adam existed less than 10,000 years ago. Scientific evidences point to a fact that homo sapiens have been for over 200,000 years ago.


And really, you need to grow up and it's time to let go of childhood fairy tales that one man named all the animals on earth. who does that?

Also, how can you prove to me that Adam is your ancestor? Was he mentioned in your cultural heritage? Truly, religion has broken ancestral links of gullible low thinkers called Africans.

rerhji:
tell me one of ur problem nd I will tell u my religion perspective abt it

is religious perspective a solution?...Anyway, it's obvious you have nothing to say, bye for now

rerhji:
well, I can tell u categorically that my religion has solved every problem human race has faced nd dos dat will confront dem .......i only takes careful study of d manual of life (Quran) to knw dis.....nd abt inventions religion is nt meant for dat but rather to serve as a guide for u to live a successful life here in this earth and hereafter........

Be specific and mention 1 problem your religion has solved. Just one.

uzoexcel:
huh

Are u amused? of course isn't it amusing that a man in this generation would believe that a man rode a donkey to heaven but find it ridiculous that man landed on the moon with rockets

rerhji:
firstly, lemme try by enlightening u dat islam covers every aspect of life ...jst name it nd it surely covers it......

secondly, from d write up it is nt denied dat dinosaur existed so proofing it religiously shdn't b ur headache but rather show u d beauty of d religion

and lastly, y do u guys always storm Islamic threads to cause chaos which rearly happen on Christianity related topics.......if u guys can't learn nd reason on ur own can't u find something better to do'??

No scientist will ever say that his discoveries are perfect and cover all aspects of life. Every research is specific and focuses on a particular problem identified. Yet they bring innovations and solutions to mankind.

Religious scholars will always say proudly that their religion is perfect and covers all aspects of life yet they cannot tell us just 1 thing ever invented through the knowledge gained from their books...
Religious claims are known to be ridiculous and vague.

Hypocrisy and self denial is a pathetic and chronic disease

Trottle:
Myth... Or are you talking about the "unseen". If it's that I staunchly believe in that.

With all the " years of research" that visit has not been replicated again with all the advancement of technology. Isn't that laughable?

Do you know how many times the ISS breaks down?

Have you heard about the Van Allen belt?

Create another thread for this and let the focus be on the main topic.

wait let me get this, Mohammed rode a donkey to heaven??

Trottle:
I don't really understand what your last 4 words means.

If by" 21st century man", you mean I should discard all what dignifies a human, and make a human a "human being" (few will catch this), then I strongly do not appreciate the tag "21st century man"

I've not finished typing when you quoted, pls check again and make me laugh. You are an entertainment

Trottle:
Whoever believes that the "dinosaurs" as described by "Paleontologists" existed, then, you can as well believe that man landed on the moon.

Allahu Alam.

ok let's discuss myth, you as a 21st century man would rather believe that a man rode a donkey to space but find it unbelievable that men through years of researches landed on the moon using rockets...

This is perhaps the most laughable thing ive heard

Trottle:
Firstly, yI hopeou denying your faith (or whatever your ideological leaning is) to post on an Islamic thread signifies low self esteem.

Secondly, I hope you know that the "paleontological/ archaeological industry" is rife with con artists who can conjure just about anything to make money. The "dinosaurian" myth has been debunked times and over by your "enlightened" people.


Creatures existed, yes, but I'll never believe the atheistic version being purported today.

Go and read before posting.

me swearing to your god or Allah is meaningless.


So would you rather seek answers from your holy books than scientific approaches.
?

No wonder knowledge from your holy book is responsible for the scientific breakthroughs we all enjoy today. I guess it's time to burn our libraries, science labs, hospitals, satellites, research institutions and replace them with mosques.

We no longer need to read history books, science books...lets all read Korans so we can have better doctors, researchers and engineers.

A wise option isn't it?

asalimpo:
You brain tired of thinking. So you wrote off all that I said.
If you make a point, and try to argue the point logically, then the only way to continue with your case is logical not emotional. This is how, most people who have not skill in logical reasoning - yet try to prove that something is LOGICAL argue. Pathetic.
They either first start off, cool and collected and composed - expecting that their age/status - will shut off the opposition. (if such is the case ), when that doesnt work, fuming inside, but trying to keep calm, they try to crank their brains to arrange some lopsided logic to sling. But the opposition points out holes in it.
Their puny attempts failing, the animal in them jumps out like an angry lion. Shaming, beating, abuse and so on is the end of the discussion.
Common, bro. I see this too often. It's pathetic.
If you want to be an atheist. Please feel free. God wont heckle you , in most democratic societies your choice will be respected. If on theother hand you want to make a case against anything and u are marshalling arguments, stay logical and dont deviate into the gutter of emotional drivels like i see here.
Go to to other forums and see how people make their points.

Have you ever tried to make a point to someone far below the level of comprehension,? you will be worn out....such is your case, you are indeed a mess.

But don't be discouraged bcuz it's not unusual to meet someone of your calibre, but in this case, I've been too busy of late. So enjoy your colourful ignorance, afterall it is bliss...

You are asking if dinosaurs existed and you hope to get your answers through a book written by cave men...

What happened to scientific approaches to determine your answers...If You need answers, go to archeologists not Islamic teachers

jemmabond:
A gay dude raping a woman? Don't make me laugh!

He may be bisexual, does both men and women..

jemmabond:
I have a better idea - I'll ask my gay friends to rape him back.

what if he's gay? you just did him a favour

jemmabond:
And raping her would make him a rapist...please let's even the bloody score.

if you can kill him at the point he is raping you, that will pass for self defense. But after the act, it will be murder. But it will be painful if that rapist escapes justice, and if he successfully escapes justice, then you can carefully Plot revenge, burn his house, burn his car, set him up and make like miserable for him

Rukkydelta:
Kill him If I were in her shoes, I could have burn the idiot to death Nobody should quote me

We all hate rapists, but killing him will make you a murderer.

Yeligray:
REPENT AND GIVE YOUR LIFE TO CHRIST!!! THESE ARE ALL SIGNS OF END TIME.

SHUT UP!!! Go to school, your mates are in school making discoveries and finding solutions to problems facing humanity.

asalimpo:
[s] Since you're mentally balanced - show how the "long epistle" lacked common sense and let's starts from there.
Your question is logically invalid - since it's a leading question.
There's no objectivity to it. I refer you to the "long epistle" to see a detailed explanation on the matter.

IOW, your argument which is a leading question is simply NONSENSical.
IF you can't reason logically, you cannot even begin to decipher the truth or error in ur stance.
Let's look at the question - "Are u still jobless"?- or Are u still unfulfilled? (assuming a person told you he isnt yet married university educated, have a car etc) you jump to the conclusion that he isnt fulfilled because he isnt married etc, then use that to create an assumption (you are not x so u are unfulfilled - (see leading Q)- ) then use it to fire back at him a question! If the person answers yes or no - he implicitly assumes your assumption?! The question is - before the question is even attempted the assumption must be assessed.
IOW, You have used a funneling technique, narrow the reply to two categorical options (yes no) for a wrong assumption which you use as a basis, to launch your question hoping the asked will assume such basis as FACT . How much more dubious and erroneous can you be?
Then when some1 comes along and untangles ur dubiousness, you wave it off, as - drivel - long talk.
Grow up, nobody is ur fool.
Go back to the assumptions and reassess your stance before firing ur biased questions.
See the previous point i made on this.
Let's start with what the so called Objective for God was as defined in the Bible, then proceed from there.
My previous response addressed this in detail. I dont need to repeat myself.
You are in essence trying to blame God for man's abuse of his choice by exercise of His, man's, free will!!
That's sick thinking.
[/s]

I did not read a word since nothing new expected other than trash

months:
Nna, am I the only person not surprise here.


Two Igbo boyz in Davido circle dies and he only showed genuine sadness for the Yoruba one called DJ Olu.


In fact all the yorubas that were friends with them only showed concern for DJ Olu.


Wat about Chime and Tagbo, are dey not Human or their friends?


Wen, we tell our Igbo people that their dull leadership have turned them to sacrificial lamb they think it is a small statement.


If Nnamdi Kanu wake dem up abit from their sleep, Afonja and Aboki will use blackmail, threats of genocide, military and every means under the sun to try and force dem back to sleep or kill dem all.


Ndiigbo wake up and smell the coffee, stop sleeping.

enemyofprogress what do you have to say to this mad man, is he next?

Lovetinz:
What blood group is it? Get a blood type test done as soon as possible.

Mystery solved