₦airaland Forum

lastmessenger:
From your reply, I can conclude that the bad Muslims are the ones who kill people for leaving Islam. Am still wondering why it is so rampant in the Muslim world to kill the so called apostate. It took the cry of the whole world for the Sudanese government to overturn the death sentence handed down to a pregnant woman last year.
Anyway thanks For replying.
And finally, is there a compaign by the good Muslims to stop such killings?

I'm not sure of campaigns for that issue in particular but there are campaigns to stop terrorism as a whole by muslims. I guess we can say it's all part of terrorism.

Here are some links:

http://m.citynews.ca/2014/11/12/muslim-group-hopes-to-stop-homegrown-terrorism-through-national-campaign/

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/muslim-students-association-aims-to-stop-the-crisis

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rossalynwarren/muslims-are-speaking-out-against-isis-to-say-you-do-not-repr?s=mobile

http://foreignpolicyblogs.com/2014/10/10/moderate-muslims-speak-out-against-terrorism/

Rich4god:
@sameera025... Still waiting on the above...

God says in the Quran:

"There is no compulsion in religion…" (Quran 2:256)

Not only does Islam demand their freedom to practice religion, but also that they be treated justly as any other fellow human.  Warning against any abuse of non-Muslims in an Islamic society, the Prophet stated:

"Beware!  Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, curtails their rights, burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment." (Abu Dawud)

Prophet Muhammad had a Jewish neighbour and this person used to every morning throw his garbage at the door step of the Prophet's home. The Prophet would then pick it up and throw it in the disposal area along with his personal trash. One morning the Prophet didn't see any garbage on his door step and he didn't really care much about it. The next morning same thing and so on, until a week passed by without any garbage being put on the Prophet's door step. So our Prophet went to that Jewish neighbor and paid him a visit to check on him. The Jewish neighbor was sick and he was in bed. Our Prophet then started taking care of his Jewish neighbor and the Jewish very soon embraced Islam because of our beloved Prophet's high morals.
The point of the story is that Prophet Muhammad was very ordinary. He wasn't rich nor was he treated with any special security by anyone. He spent his wealth on good Islamic causes and he was the best role model for everyone.

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/374/viewall/

lastmessenger:
Just a simple for you. what is your opinion on the death penalty imposed on those who converted from Islam to other religion. is it right or wrong? did the Qoran or the prophet Muhammed support the killing people who left Islam to other religion?

Rich4God asked the same question and I answered by saying:

What is written on such people is:
"Neither the Jews nor the Christians will be pleased with you (O Muhammad) till you follow their millah. Say: “Surely, the guidance of God is the (true) guidance”. And if you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, then you would not have any protector or helper against God. (2:120)
So, it says if you leave islam after practicing it then you will face God. So if anything I take this to mean they should be left for Allah to handle.

Although, In shariah law,
The punishment for apostasy (riddah) is well-known in Islaamic Sharee’ah. The one who leaves Islaam will be asked to repent by the Sharee’ah judge in an Islaamic country; if he does not repent and come back to the true religion, he will be killed as a kaafir and apostate, because of the command of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): "Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 3017).

(Islam qna.com)

I urge everyone to follow the #whoisMuhammed trend on twitter. There you will see muslims all around the world telling the truth about the beloved prophet (pbuh), and condemning the acts of terrorists.

Empiree:
Sister, permit me to say this, pls. Pls dont apologise for anything. You did nothing wrong. You and countless other muslims are not responsible for actions of clowns. No apologies, pls. Doing that ridicules you.

Many people of other faith commit crimes. Their crimes are attached to them only. Feel no guilt. You are absolutely not answerable for anyone's mischieves. Get over it. These non-muslim fellows you are apologetic towards know very well Islam is not the cause. They chose to blame religion. Get over apologies. Enough said

No where have I apologized for anything. As a muslim it's important to spread knowledge. This is merely a platform to set things straight for those who have been fed false knowledge on Islam. I have not ridiculed myself in any way. Even if no one wants to believe the truth I feel I have done my part by at least trying.

buoye1:
Surely OP knows nothing about Northern Nigeria..I'm a christian grew up in the south west and I know Yoruba muslims(friends) who are law abiding and do their lives peacefully....when I moved to the Northern part of Nigeria for my higher institution it was a different case from where I was coming from and to the way I see things...I'm in Bauchi city to be precise and I can tell you there are areas christains don't go to esp in the evening for the fear of being attacked...in my school discrimination from lecturers,HOD's even security man at the school gate!I wonder why northerner(muslims) behave so irrational

I don't need anybody to tell me,I see it day and night here


My advice is let everyone stay on whatsoever he/she believes......Must aL be muslims?

Peace!

I am from Northern Nigeria, my relatives are in the north, I visit yearly, I schooled in the North so you can't say I know nothing of it. I also commend yoruba muslims for their peace and exemplary practices. I am not here trying to convert anyone to Islam. I am asking for peace between muslims an Christians. I've provided a platform for questions to be asked about Islam for those who want to understand it.

Ifeann:
So her leaving Islam had nothing to do with these 10 teachings of islam
Teaching # 1: Islam's paradise of evil, demented, depraved sexual perversity
Verse 9:111 – Muslim's passport to paradise
"Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph."
Islam teaches that if Muslims slay or are slain (kill or are killed) in the service of God, i.e. Jihad, they are guaranteed accession to Allah's paradise of depraved sexual perversity. Islam's Paradise is filled with whorish virgins possessing voluptuous bosoms and lustrous eyes. Muslims, blessed with an access to Paradise, will have 72 such virgins to engage in incessant Reproduction. Furthermore, a Muslim's surest way of getting a passport to Paradise, says Allah, is to get slain while trying to kill the kafirs. Indeed, the Quran incites unrestrained murder of infidels and particularly calls for the deaths of atheists and polytheists any where you see them.


Teaching # 2: Kill the infidels wherever you find them
Quran 9:5 (the infamous verse of the sword inciting mass murder):
"Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."
Verse 9:5 teaches Muslims to commit mass-murder. The kafirs must either convert to Islam, who would keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate (zakat), or be murdered. Command for unconditional slaying of humans, God's own creations, by other humans – when presented as a sacred teaching of the almighty Creator – becomes a most evil teaching.
It is needless to say that such teachings never came from the God.

Teaching # 3: Extortion Verse 9:29:
"Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low."
Here, Allah the Islamic God commands Muslims to attack and kill the so-called 'people of the book' (i.e. Jews and Christians), until they are defeated and submitted to the supremacy of Islam and, in willing humiliation, pay jizya (submission) tax to Muslims. Like verse 9:5, 9:29 is a call to mass murder and extermination. Only Hitler had openly instructed his followers to exterminate the Jews so completely. When such a teaching is presented as a teaching of the Creator of the Universe, it becomes extremely evil.

Teaching # 4: Verse 5:32/5:33 – verse of barbaric cruelty
In order to portray Islam as a wonderful religion, Muslim taqqiyah tacticians, including President Obama, will always quote the verse 5:32, which says, "We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind."
Verse 5:32 is a teaching of mass extermination and genocide. When President Barrack Obama gave his speech in Cairo, he quoted from Verse 5.32 "whosoever killeth a human being, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind."
Isn't this a wonderful teaching from a wonderful God worthy of quotation by the President? Wait a moment while I grab my handkerchief and clear the tears from my eyes. It is just such a beautiful teaching. "whosoever killeth a human being, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind."
See https://www.nairaland.com/2052606/understanding-beautiful-verse-muslims-love for some deeper explanations from Muslims and non Muslims nairaland members.

On the surface it looks like a timeless teaching worthy of a loving God.

But wait a moment. The President did not quote Verse 5:32 correctly. He left out a most important part of the teaching. God has created in his infinite wisdom two exceptions to his teaching." whosoever killeth a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind," We can killeth a human being for manslaughter and corruption in the earth and it will not be the killing of all mankind.
And what does the exception "corruption in the land" mean. All human beings who do not convert to Islam have declared war on Islam and Allah, are a danger to Allah, and therefore have created corruption in the land and must be murdered. All Apostates of Islam by rejecting Islam are creating corruption in the land. Muslim women who demand equality with men are creating corruption in the land. All Muslim girls who refuse to obey their fathers by adopting Western culture are creating corruption in the land. It is also important to note that only Muslims are innocent according to the Mohammed and his god. And on and on.
President Obama quoted Verse 5:32 in his Cairo speech as a symbol of the wonderful, wonder of Islam. The President quoted a teaching that justifies the mass murder of non-Muslims.
This is a teaching of madness masquerading as a teaching of love. And how are the kafirs to be murdered for making "corruption in the land." Read the following Verse 5:33
Verse 5:33 says:
"The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;"
Teachings as contained in this verse – "they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land" – are cruel and barbaric in nature. When those teachings are presented as God's, it becomes extremely evil, no better than those Hitler had committed.

Teaching # 5: Verse 65.4 -- Allah's teaching of pedophilia
Quran 65:4 says:
"And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'Iddah (prescribed divorce period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months,and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is three months likewise, except in case of death]. And for those who are pregnant (whether they are divorced or their husbands are dead), their 'Iddah (prescribed period) is until they deliver (their burdens) (give birth) and whosoever fears Allah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make his matter easy for him."
The most important duty of any species is the care and protection of its young. The prime duty of mankind is to raise children in a safe and caring environment, so they can progress into responsible adults. There is no worse crime than the sexual abuse and exploitation of children. But verse 65:4 clearly approves marriages and sexual Reproduction with pre-pubescent little girls, who haven't started menstruating yet. And Muhammad at the age of 50 duly complied with this sanction of Allah by marrying Aisha, only 6 years old. Mohammed was the original paedophile.

Teaching # 6: Verse 33:50 – sanctioning unrestrained slavery and rape for Muhammad by his Allah
Verse 33.50 says:
"O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those [slaves] whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your
paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her – specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful".
The term "possessions of the right hand" mean slaves. It is expressly stated that Muhammad's slaves, which he attained as a share of the captives in raiding infidels communities, were actually given to him by Allah Himself. And Allah also makes raping them halal for Muhammad (and his Muslim followers).
The verse also gives a special privilege to Muhammad to marry as many wives as he desires, beyond the restriction of four wives for ordinary Muslims. When God's teachings encourage a people to wage wars to capture the women for raping as well as encourages His holy prophet to engage in unrestrained marriage for sexual gratification, there can't be a teaching as evil as this in such matters.

Teaching # 7: Quran's Sanction of Wife Beating
Quran 4:34:
"Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."
A Muslim woman is the property of her husband. A Muslim husband has the legal right and religious obligation to beat a wife if she disobeys him, is disloyal to him or simply does not please him. The concept of wife abuse does not exist in Islam. There is no concept of martial rape. A Muslim woman cannot refuse sex with her husband. NEVER. If he wants sex she must drop and obey. According to Islamic law, a husband may strike his wife for any one of the following four reasons:
She does not attempt to make herself beautiful for him (i.e. "let's herself go"
She refuses to meet his sexual demands
She leaves the house without his permission or a "legitimate reason"
She neglects her religious duties
Any of these are also sufficient grounds for divorce. These are evil affronts to the idea of equality and dignity of women – very evil teachings, indeed.

Teaching # 8: Allah takes a shares of plundered booty
Quran 8:41
"And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war),a fifth share is assigned to Allah, - and to the Messenger, and to near relatives, orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer, - if ye do believe in Allah and in the revelation We sent down to Our servant on the Day of Testing, - the Day of the meeting of the two forces. For Allah hath power over all things."
This verse was revealed about how the booty captured in wars – such as after attacking and mass-slaughtering the Jews of Banu Quraiza – would be distributed. And most horribly the Islamic Allah Himself claims a share of the booty along with His prophet. God is the Creator of everything in the Universe. When that God encourages some people to attack and mass-murder others, so He Himself can take a share from the wealth captured from those murder people – no evil can get higher than this.


Teaching # 9: Verse 24:2 – Mohammed and his god approves Adultery and fornication.
Quran 24:2 says:
"The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication, -- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by God, if ye believe in God and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment."
This verse says that Muslims must not have mercy on people, who commit adultery or fornication, and punish them brutally with 100 lashes in public. However, since other verses in the Quran specifically allow men to have sex slaves, the horrible crime of serial rape against a non-Muslim woman is not considered adultery or fornication and would not be punished as the woman would be considered God-given concubine.
Again, what kind of an ignorant deluded person would flog a woman 100 times for having sex with a man if she doesn't provide 4 witnesses if she was raped? Answer, a muslim man.
On the other hand, Islamic god, evil as He is, allows men to force sex upon their unwilling wives (verse 4:34).

Teaching # 10: Teachings of torture, enslavement, beheading cruelty, eye-for-eye …..
There is a gigantic tie for the tenth most evil teaching. There are 3,990 teachings of the Quran that are equally evil. All these teachings are immoral depravity. Not being words/teachings of Moral Perfection - the Quran is not Moral Perfection and therefore not from God, therefore Allah is not God but the AntiGod and Muhammad is no prophet. Following is a very small sample of further Quranic depravity.


Plaese see
https://www.nairaland.com/2066807/brutally-honest-look-10-islamic

For my thread on these teachings

I didn't ask you to go to a website and copy and paste fabricated lines from the quran which meanings and interpretations have been completely and offensively misinterpreted. I asked you go straight to the quran, read the correct verses for yourself and try to understand them to your own knowledge. Not someone else's view. Those which you do not understand after reading straight from the source, you can post here.

Ifeann:
No u haven't explained it but you have given it your own meaning. You attempt to reinterpret the verses and have contradicted several of your scholars in the process. ...pls u havent answered my question concerning the quran and your rejection or acceptance of the hadiths. Its late here but God willing i will reply your explained verses tomorow.

I would like to see a credible reference which contradicts what I have said. On the contrary, I used the opinions of scholars to help me understand the verses further. No I do not reject hadiths.

Rich4god:
Was she in the north when she denouced Islam openly...

She was not, the point is that she is surrounded by muslims, her parents are very religious. She let everyone know her decision, and nothing has been done to her.
I know if she had done this in some village with extremists they might have acted unjustly towards her.
Her reasons for leaving were that she didn't like praying 5 times a day, covering her hair. She liked to party and drink and islam frowns upon such.
Being a muslim is not easy. You have to make tons of sacrifices and abstain from worldly things, but is it worth being patient and doing what Allah tells us is good in order to please him.

Ifeann:
Yes i lifted that pic off a scholars site. Sue me. The troubling verses i quote is lifted too from your quran
it seems u are one of the muslims that are "quran only" in practise. Please confirm this to me ; and do u reject the haiths, the sahih hadiths as well ...Please let me know so i can decide what sources to quote to u as i expose the vices in islam to you. Pls dont be offended by my bluntness. I dont believe in masquerading my view on a serious subject such as religion so as to please.

The quran is the word of Allah, unfabricated and perfect. Prophet Muhammed is my role model, so I practice his sunnah and accept authentic Hadith. I have explained the verses you sent to me, so if there are more you don't understand please do post them.

sbaks:
Imagine a lecturer denying me my rightful marks because I AM CHRISTIAN

Sbaks I'm terribly sorry to hear that you went through such for that was sincerely unfair. Unfortunately cruelty is something everyone deals with. I dealt with a similar situation when I was uni with a lecturer who didn't like muslims. Don't blame all muslims for the actions of your unprofessional lecturer. I have Forgiven the professor who singled out us muslims and treated us muslims unfairly in class. Be it because of race, tribe, religion etc we all deal with unfair treatment because of who we are.

Rich4god:
If truly what you are telling me is what the koran teaches... Then am sorry to say, you are the only muslim that i have come across... *dats if you do as you are telling me*
We all knw that muslims world wide will hunt and kill any one that denouces Islam... *dont ask me for proof, cos we have seen it and exp it*... Back in kano, I now how many pple my church have to send out of the diocese cos of threat to their life as a result of them denouncing islam.

So, i can still repeat my earlier statement... If what you are telling me is true... Then this current muslims are practicing another brand of Islam.

A friend of mine denounced islam a few years ago. She is very open about it. I do not agree with her decision but I do not resent her either. I just hope one day she will revert back. Nothing has happened to her. She is a Northern Muslim. So many people know about it and no one has attacked her in any way. The muslims you are hearing and reading about are not the majority of muslims.

dorox:
So do you support the stoning of adulterers and the amputation of petty thieves as well as the subjugation of women in the sharia law?

Adultery is one of the major sins in islam. Stealing is a sin as well. Is the punishment harsh? You can argue that it is, but it's the law and you have to face consequences. If I was living under the law and I committed either one who I am to complain for I am the one who did wrong and I knew the consequences. What subjugation of women in sharia are you talking about?

Rich4god:
I dont really knw when the Nigerian constitution allow the killing of some1 for abusing a prophet cos countless pple have fallen victims to such act here in Nigeria. Even in Afgan/Pakistan, we have seen fanatics forcing their way into police station to pick out and kill victims who are under police protection cos they commited blasphemy...

Anyway, dont want us to continue argueing on this issue. Lets move on to my next question...

What is the Islamic stand on a muslim who converted to another religion. Is the person supposed to be killed or left alone...?

What is written on such people is:
"Neither the Jews nor the Christians will be pleased with you (O Muhammad) till you follow their millah. Say: “Surely, the guidance of God is the (true) guidance”. And if you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, then you would not have any protector or helper against God. (2:120)

But under shariah law,

The punishment for apostasy (riddah) is well-known in Islaamic Sharee’ah. The one who leaves Islaam will be asked to repent by the Sharee’ah judge in an Islaamic country; if he does not repent and come back to the true religion, he will be killed as a kaafir and apostate, because of the command of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): "Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 3017).
(Islamqna.com)

Ifeann:
Your version of Islam and ur weak explanations here goes to show u dont understand islam...real Islam is practised by the majority of wahhabis, salafiS even to some degree the shi'a and sunnis of Saudi Arabia. ..

Below is a pic from your sources on a taste of real Islam as practised by Mohammed.

It is you who does not understand Islam. You have not read the quran. Do not post something that you randomly found. The true word can only be received from the quran so if you want to find something to condemn, read the quran and back your claims from what you find there. Anything else, I won't accept or bother to read.

italo:
1. You said that "fitnah" is "mischief" and it meant killing. Q2:191 (two verses above) says "fitnah is worse than killing." Fitnah also means disbelief and worshipping other gods.

2. You said he didn't say "kill." He said it two verses earlier. In fact, he said "if they fight you, kill them." Q2:191.

3. You cannot explain: "Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah."

So what happens if they stop fighting you but they don't acknowledge Allah?

Muhammad says "keep fighting them." Isn't that the logical conclusion?

The line right after it says, But if they desist, then know that hostility is directed only against the wrong-doers. To answer your question to those who stop fighting and don't believe.
It was the disbelievers who tormented and oppressed muslims. The line is a command from God telling the Prophet to fight back until there are no more of these disbelievers who were causing the mischief. If the line was meant to mean that all disbelievers should be killed the line that says, "But if they desist, then know that hostility is directed only against the wrong-doers." wouldn't follow it.

Here is verse 2:190-194 it will make more sense when read as a whole.

Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear (the punishment of) God, and know that God is with those who restrain themselves." [Noble Quran 2:190-194]

Ifeann:
Hello friend.
You said



Can't you see the flaw in your argument. ..u once again condemn Islam while trying to defend it. ..Abraham did that over 3000 years before Jesus. ....we know this because jews were particularly good at keeping and passing records. this was an ancient event even by the time of Jesus. . Jesus was crucified in his 30s and didn't once promote slavery or sexual immortality. .
Jews still had servant at this time but they were commanded to be very fair to them and marry them and if the slave was unhappy the slave was free to leave..how do we know this. Because it is part of the Old law jews lived by to maintain righteousness. Mohammed on the other hand traded slaves, had sex with slaves, adviced on breeding slaves , approved of sleeping with married slaves because the righthand of the Muslim possess ed them. So jews for thousands of years treated slaves well and married them but St Paul in his letters acknowledged slaves where under a yolk and even preached equality as seen in

Galatians 3:28p
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond(slave) nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 12:13:"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond(slave) or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

Colossians 3:11:"Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond(slave) nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."

These are the writings of paul as inspired by the Holy spirit who lived 600 years before the slavery loving Mohammed. Do you see the problem with theteachings of Mohammed here.


In addition our lord Jesus born of a virgin , sinless and without carnal desires who died was buried and resurrected gives us christainity tells us love our neighbour as ourself, love forgive and endure ; and on the other side of the spectrum we have the bipolar Mohammed who contradicted most of the teachings of Christ. Mohammed who was so carnal and even had sexu.al relations with a child , who aassassinated his critics. , murdered 900 jews in one day, killed hundreds of pagans and fought people till his death by the poison of ajewish woman gives the world Islam which is the cause of so much evil in the world today and is clearly the spirit of the anti christ as prophesied in the bible. .. and u say i shouldn't say islam is vile. .. wow.


Wow. ... my brother in humanity Islam is not of the true God. It's against the new covenant God has brought us through Jesus. Let me make it clear to you, i say to you that Mohammed was a fraud and the closest thing he came to a miracle is the quran with all its abrogation and contradictions


Ok let me make this clear i use words that fit the situation. .. hope ypu know the meaning of a hypocrite. I submit that the explanations given by the op is hypocritical. I don't mean to insult him or her only stating it as it appears. I have made over 300 posts while discussing with Muslims and atheists i haven't once by the grace of God insulted anyone even as they insult me. .in every topic i create i plead with people not to insult the Muslims check and see for yourself



She answer some and She ignores the questions that threaten her version of Islam the Disney world version that fears sharia, killing of apostates, stonings etc


Look i am not here to affirm the quran ... i am here to show why there is so much evil rooted in it. .. Mohammed said some nice things bit it is the evil practises he did that has been replicated by the Muslim world that is causing the craziness all around. Instead of us talking about global warming, ebola and economic development we are instead dealing with Muslims who just love chaos



Its because of the love i have for you Muslims that i Give a couple of hours each week by God's grace to expose islam to muslims and discuss these issues as honestly and blunt as possible. .without lies and hypocrisy

I have not ignored questions if have answered several to the best of my ability. I do not reply to the insulting rants for they aren't seeking answers, they are merely stating their own convictions. Do not call my version of islam the "Disney world" version for I practice what I have been told in the quran. As for sharia, I never told you I fear such. Justice is justice, and there can't be order without law.

Rich4god:
Maybe its cos you grew up in the west... In saudia, jst last week, a man was detained and sentence to prison with a thousand lashes for blogging. In iran, some pple where arrested for uploading the new dancing skills in youtube... To mention but a few...

They broke laws set by their country. Laws are laws. Whether we agree with them or not. And we know that if we break them, we have to face the penalties set in motion. Say there weren't laws set against these actions and they were wrongly prosecuted that would be a different argument.

Rich4god:
@sameera025: i still need response to this...

I cannot just why the actions of this because it isn't islamic. This is one of the issues of culture coming to play. The fact remains that islam encourages knowledge and spreading knowledge as I do now. No muslim I have met as ever been denied these rights and it is because I was fortunate enough to grow up where it is accepted in the culture.

Rich4god:
Deducing from your statement, can I conclude that the version of islam countries like Nigeria, Saudia, Pakistan, Afgan and co practice is an adultrated type of Islam and not the one passed down by the prophet.

You cannot generalize countries as a whole.
Some muslims practice the teachings of the quran more than others. Just as as some Christians are more religious than others and there are many different sects of christian who all have different beliefs and follow different rulings. Same as muslims. Culture also always comes into play as well. It should not be confused with religious rulings.

italo:
The verse specifically says that they should fight until there is no more disbelief...until the enemies submit to Allah.

Quran 2:193 Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.



You're ignoring that.

This is the meaning of the verse Q2:193

Keep on fighting against them until mischief ends and the way prescribed by Allah prevails. But if they desist, then know that hostility is directed only against the wrong-doers.

Mischief being killing, oppression. But Allah is saying that even if they refuse to follow and believe that hostility should only be directed to the wrongdoers. Not the innocent. He didn't say kill. He said fight. I would like to think that I am fighting now for my religion to be understood.

Rich4god:
If I get you right, the koran condems the killing of someone who desecrated the koran or abused the propet...?

Now, some muslims countries have what we call blasphemy law wch issues a death penalty to pple who fall short of the law. So many pple have fallen victim to this law in middle east esp...

Now, these laws are been uphelp by islamic scholars of the country and the muslims all rally around to ensure that the offender faces the penalty. Now if am to deduce logically, does it mean that the muslims in those country are practicing anoda brand of islam...?

There is no ruling on blasphemy mentioned in the quran. My quotes have shown that the quran doesn't support unjust killings either. So the rulings that have been derived on blasphemy have come from people in authority.

More quotes:
…Let not a people’s enmity incite you to act otherwise than with justice. Be always just, that is nearer to righteousness… (Ch.5:V.9)

But Islam does not only condemn the blaspheming of God. It also protects the feelings of polytheists, by forbidding Muslims from attacking their idols. On this point, the Holy Qur’an states:

And revile not those whom they call upon beside Allah, lest they, out of spite, revile Allah in their ignorance.… (Ch.6:V.109)

In other words, Islam teaches Muslims to be sensitive to the sensibilities of others—no matter how strongly they disagree with them. The implication of this verse is that if it is not permitted for Muslims to slander false idols, it certainly cannot be permissible for Muslims to defile other sects within Islam or other religions.

http://www.reviewofreligions.org/5002/what-is-the-punishment-for-blasphemy-in-islam/#sthash.Y9uTSiSF.dpuf

Ifeann:
I see nothing addressing the verses i mentioned my friend..i am talking about the verses i lifted from your quran and hadiths unchanged. Verses that command slavery, sex with slaves, violence etc which contradicts the story u are telling us here. Verses i posted few hours ago.

If u dont have explanations to it just say so.. i understand u may not have studied your quran. I have had Muslims admit to me that they are not knowledgeable on several verse i bring to them and i don't condemn them for it. So please don't avoid the topic by saying you have corrected a fabrication when u havent even attempted to. Besides u can't correct the quran that is shirk.

You obviously didn't check. Here's what I posted.

I don't know where you got those modified verses but they are not accurate. Here are the accurate ones. Next time get them straight from the quran. Twisting the verses of the quran makes you no different than the terrorists that do the same.

8:29 O you who have believed, if you fear Allah , He will grant you a criterion and will remove from you your misdeeds and forgive you. And Allah is the possessor of great bounty. (this one you completely got wrong. This is the correct verse)

24:42 And marry the unmarried among you and the righteous among your male slaves and female slaves. If they should be poor, Allah will enrich them from His bounty, and Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing. (you completely twisted this one)

(4:24) And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess. [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, [provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse. So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise. (this is referring to marriage, it prohibits men from marrying married women)

8:69 So consume what you have taken of war booty [as being] lawful and good, and fear Allah . Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. (booty means treasure. Gold etc. No where does it say slaves are considered booty)

33:50 O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her, [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful. (it is saying it is lawful to marry slaves and all the other women listed. Not have intercourse with. Premarital intercourse is forbidden in islam)

2:178 O you who have believed, prescribed for you is legal retribution for those murdered - the free for the free, the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. But whoever overlooks from his brother anything, then there should be a suitable follow-up and payment to him with good conduct. This is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy. But whoever transgresses after that will have a painful punishment. (after legal retribution, payment with good conduct, painful punishment for those who punish outside legal retribution)

Rich4god:
@sameera025... I want to knw the stand of the quran on death penalty. Why are pple killed for desecrating the quran or abusing the prophet... Are they not supposed to be reprimanded.

The quran says:
"...If anyone kills a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he killed all people. And if anyone saves a life, it would be as if he saved the life of all people" (Qur'an 5:32).
And
"...Take not life, which God has made sacred, except by way of justice and law. Thus does He command you, so that you may learn wisdom" (6:151)

Anyone who doesn't adhere to this is not following the rulings of the Quran.

Ifeann:
Its funny how you decide to stop the discussion as soon as the facts of your religion are brought up .... the verses speak for them self, the deeds of Mohammed are clear. ... when it is presented to you then u run away... the days when u Muslims decieved the kaffirs christains jews atheists etc is over....thank God for the Internet. ... the all mighty God made it possible for so many exmuslims to expose the evils of the quran. Millions now have access to the English translations of the quran and popular hadiths... i ponder on you sources all most every day. ... islam is sick and the muslims are most to be pitied.

If you scroll up you will see that I corrected the fabricated verses. They were very inaccurate. I will never turn down an opportunity to give the correct message.

dorox:
@sameera025

As a muslim would, what is your view of the sharia law, and would you like to live in a country where this law is implemented?

I would love to live by the rulings of the quran. Where life is just and fair. The unfortunate thing is that everywhere people are failed by a system made to be just, that is manipulated to be unjust to others.

italo:
Sameera025, thank you for answering.

Please allow me to bring you some verses one by one to avoid confusion.

Quran 2:193 Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.

Isn't that Muhammad asking his followers to fight unbelievers and to stop if the unbelievers convert to Islam?

Let me make one thing clear, the quran is from God. They are his words that he revealed through the prophet Muhammed.

These verses were revealed at a time when Muslims of Madinah were under constant attack from the Makkans. An example would be when the Makkans conducted the public crucifixion of the companion of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), Khubaib bin Adi. These would be classified as 'terrorist activities' according to the modern usage of the term. So what does this verse say in this context? "Fight in the cause of God those who fight you", "unless they (first) fight you there" - the context of this verse applies to those who initiate the attack against Muslims. And even after they attack, the verse makes it clear:


"But if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." [Noble Quran 2:192]

http://www.aboutjihad.com/terrorism/quran_misquote_part_2.php

Prophet Muhammad's Last Sermon

Date delivered: 632 A.C.
This sermon was delivered on the Ninth day of Dhul al Hijjah 10 A.H. in the 'Uranah valley of Mount Arafat.

After praising, and thanking God, he said:
"O People, listen well to my words, for I do not know whether, after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and TAKE THESE WORDS TO THOSE WHO COULD NOT BE PRESENT HERE TODAY.

O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Treat others justly so that no one would be unjust to you. Remember that you will indeed meet your LORD, and that HE will indeed reckon your deeds. God has forbidden you to take usury (riba), therefore all riba obligation shall henceforth be waived. Your capital , however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer inequity. God has judged that there shall be no riba and that all the riba due to `Abbas ibn `Abd al Muttalib shall henceforth be waived.

Every right arising out of homicide in pre-Islamic days is henceforth waived and the first such right that I waive is that arising from the murder of Rabi`ah ibn al Harith ibn `Abd al Muttalib.

O Men, the Unbelievers indulge in tampering with the calendar in order to make permissible that which God forbade, and to forbid that which God has made permissible. With God the months are twelve in number. Four of them are sacred, three of these are successive and one occurs singly between the months of Jumada and Sha`ban. Beware of the devil, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.

O People, it is true that you have certain rights over your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under God's trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Treat your women well and be kind to them, for they are your partners and committed helpers. It is your right and they do not make friends with anyone of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste...

O People, listen to me in earnest, worship God (The One Creator of the Universe), perform your five daily prayers (Salah), fast during the month of Ramadan, and give your financial obligation (zakah) of your wealth. Perform Hajj if you can afford to.

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.

Remember, one day you will appear before God (The Creator) and you will answer for your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.

O People, NO PROPHET OR MESSENGER WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I am leaving you with the Book of God (the QUR'AN*) and my SUNNAH (the life style and the behavioral mode of the Prophet), if you follow them you will never go astray.

All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness O God, that I have conveyed your message to your people.

northernigbo101:
if uve noticed i dnt quote any of them they ar mostly into blasphemy, insults am sure its d main resaon wy they got sidlined from d islam section they derive alot of fun from d name callin may b its der way of reveng may Allah help us all.

Ameen. People sure do enjoy poking fun and insulting. It's never right to do so.

italo:
That's what all the Muslims I have debated do.

When I show them from their Quran and their Hadiths that Muhammad did and preached the same beheadings, crucifixions, rape and sale of captives...that ISIS, Boko Haram, Al Qaeda do, they run away under all sorts of pretexts. I for one dont remember insulting you or anyone.

I asked you: do you want me to show evidence from your Quran and Hadiths?

Fortunately, someone has listed some verses:

Sahih Muslim 8:29: “IT IS PERMISSIBLE TO HAVE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH A CAPTIVE WOMAN AFTER SHE IS PURIFIED (OF MENSES OR DELIVERY) IN CASE SHE HAS A HUSBAND, HER MARRIAGE IS ABROGATED AFTER SHE BECOMES CAPTIVE.”
Sahih Muslim 8:3432: “Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (may Allah be pleased with him) reported that at the Battle of Hunain Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent an army to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that:" And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (verse 4:24)" (i.e., they were lawful for them when their 'Idda period came to an end).”

Qur'an (4:24)-"And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." Even sex with married slaves is permissible.

Qur'an (8:69)-"But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, lawful and good" A reference to war booty, of which slaves were a part

Qur'an (33:50)-"O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those (slaves) whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee"

Qur'an (23:5-6)-"..who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess..." This verse permits the slave-owner to have sex with his slaves. 

See also Qur'an (70:29-30). The Quran is a small book, so if Allah used valuable space to repeat the same point four times, then sex slavery must be very important to him.

Qur'an (24:32)-"And marry those among you who are single and those who are fit among your male slaves and your female slaves..." Breeding slaves based on fitness.
Qur'an (2:178)-"O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered; the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female." The message of this verse, which prescribes the rules of retaliation for murder, is that all humans arenotcreated equal. The human value of a slave is less than that of a free person (and a woman's worth is also distinguished from that of a man's)

They are from your Quran and Hadiths, not our words.

I don't know where you got those modified verses but they are not accurate. Here are the accurate ones. Next time get them straight from the quran. Twisting the verses of the quran makes you no different than the terrorists that do the same.

8:29 O you who have believed, if you fear Allah , He will grant you a criterion and will remove from you your misdeeds and forgive you. And Allah is the possessor of great bounty. (this one you completely got wrong. This is the correct verse)

24:42 And marry the unmarried among you and the righteous among your male slaves and female slaves. If they should be poor, Allah will enrich them from His bounty, and Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing. (you completely twisted this one)

(4:24) And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess. [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, [provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse. So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise. (this is referring to marriage, it prohibits men from marrying married women)

8:69 So consume what you have taken of war booty [as being] lawful and good, and fear Allah . Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. (booty means treasure. Gold etc. No where does it say slaves are considered booty)

33:50 O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you [of captives] and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who emigrated with you and a believing woman if she gives herself to the Prophet [and] if the Prophet wishes to marry her, [this is] only for you, excluding the [other] believers. We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess, [but this is for you] in order that there will be upon you no discomfort. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful. (it is saying it is lawful to marry slaves and all the other women listed. Not have intercourse with. Premarital intercourse is forbidden in islam)

2:178 O you who have believed, prescribed for you is legal retribution for those murdered - the free for the free, the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. But whoever overlooks from his brother anything, then there should be a suitable follow-up and payment to him with good conduct. This is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy. But whoever transgresses after that will have a painful punishment. (after legal retribution, payment with good conduct, painful punishment for those who punish outside legal retribution)

This thread was meant to be a peaceful one for me to have civil discussions with my Christian neighbors who have questions about Islam. I opened up my story and have answered a number of questions but I think at this point it has just turned into a thread of insults. I would just like to say one last time that Islam and terrorism is different. Islam teaches peace. Most of us (note that 1.7 billion muslims in the world) believe in peace. To answer the question about the quran being burnt or my prophet being insulted, it makes me unhappy but not angry and violent for I know that this world is but temporary and the best punishment can only come from God. The prophet (saw) spoke of the khawarj "rebels", "terrorists" and called them the dogs of hell fire. Thank you Rich4God and AgentofAllah for your polite discussions. We can use an alternate means of discussing without all the distractions from those who are merely here to insult.

northernigbo101:
i can c ur tryn ur best to make diz guys c reason wit u Alhamdullah may Allah reward u 4 ur effort sameera hope u knw khawarij is real der comin's been prophesizd this our own fitna d extrimist on one side&d non muslim on d other... it wont b ez its a bumpy ride ahead 4 d practisin muslim.

Thanks, Ameen. This is true, it also backs the claim that we do not believe in the actions of terrorists. May we continue to be guided on the correct path.