₦airaland Forum

BrickDevo:
Please there's a no covid-19 in Africa,
FYI i didn't read the article to the end

That's an irresponsible statement, because it has not infected someone you know doesn't mean that it is not real. Stop mocking people that lost their lives to COVID with that statement.

COVID 19 is real

No, the House of Cornelius received the baptism of the Spirit before water baptism.

Acts100:44-47 (KJV) While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Yahoo boys at work.

He has gotten bigger oooo, abi Seun has marry and did not tell us.

SMH

Christ is our Sabbath. We are not under the obligation of the mosaic law.

Kobojunkie:
Unbelievers do not go to or qualify for Hell. Only those who believe in Jesus Christ qualify for Hell as preached by Him.
Be careful to make sure you tell the Truth, the whole Truth and Nothing But, of the Gospel of the Kingdom to those you plan to reel in with your sweet talk into believing in Jesus Christ, because you may end up being the reason why they end up in Hell, if not.

I pray that the eyes of your understanding be enlightened.

Kobojunkie:
It is clear from the discussion that the lack of understanding as regards the Truth of God is not from my end but yours.
Since the of Jesus Christ carry less weight than your called revelations as given you by Paul, I will like to excuse myself from this discussion at this point since there is nothing more to be explain.

Kobojunkie:
I am beginning to seriously doubt you comprehend the meaning of the term out-of-context.
Paul himself informed you that when it comes to truth, man is a liar whereas God is Truth. Yet here you are suggesting it is "out of context".


Be sure you have no truth to offer me since you suckle from the tit of men...ingesting their many doctrines and opinions/rules..lies which Jesus Christ told you amount to lies. So don't bother telling me of them instead focus on discovering the Truth as given by God.

You don't even understand the word of Jesus and you are undermining the revelation that God gave in the epistle, as if the revelation of epistles were not given by the same spirit of Christ

You really have no argument, you are just dishonest in your assertion

Kobojunkie:
I never believed in your Bible inerrancy doctrine, so how can I contradict myself?

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life and His replacement is The Spirit of God, not Paul and His epistles which serve no real purpose as far as teaching the core truth of the New Xovenant that is Jesus Christ.

Dancing around the very words of Jesus Christ Himself, suggesting that it instead needs to be corroborated in the epistles, what do you call that? Is that not the core of what cherry-picking is all about -ignoring the Truth of God for a more palatable doctrine of man that only amounts to lies at the end of the day.
Even Paul himself told you.. Let God be true and man a liar.. FYI, Paul is the man here and Jesus Christ, God in this case.

Always out of context, when the truth is glaring and right in front of you.

have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Kobojunkiee:
Inerrancy of Scripture? You do realize that is a doctrine and not even a Truth revealed by God through His prophets and definitely not through the Person of Jesus Christ? Essentially, there is no place in the Bible where you are told that Scripture is inerrant, it is only so by the opinions and doctrines of men, which you remember, Jesus Christ warned vehemently against.

You are already contradicting your self by going against the bible inneracy.

The epistles are the final revelation of God's work, the words that Jesus wanted to reveal but couldn't reveal because his audience were immature has been reveal to us by the epistles.

John 16:12 (KJV) I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Don't forget that Jesus only spent a limited time on earth. You also need to consider the bible as whole, not the notorious cherry picking that you are doing.

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

@Kobojunkiee Are you now doubting the inneracy of the scriptures?

Or are the letters of Paul, James, Peter contradicting the words of Jesus, even the 4 gospel was written by either the apostles or their disciples.

Matthew - Matthew
Mark - Paul's disciples
Luke - Paul's disciples
John - John.

And don't forget, Scriptures must explain scriptures

Kobojunkiee:

Paul never did any of that. Like I said, Paul did not take and expand on the Truths as spoken of by Jesus Christ. As I already explained, what Paul instead did was address other concerns that many of those he encountered dealt with. Remember here that Paul is not the Spirit of God. He was simply a man who happened to be a follower of Jesus Christ at the time.

Take for example the issue of doctrines and traditions of men that Jesus Christ vehemently warned against and even went as far as stating only served to nullify the power of God in our worship in and lives.. Paul didn't broach this issue at all. Those who assume Paul their version of the Spirit of God are, am afraid, decieved.
Remember I told you earlier how Jesus Christ is the Truth(Axiom) against which everything that claims to be truth has to be validated against? It is obvious at this point that you hold the words and opinions of Paul to a higher order than the Truth as revealed by Jesus Christ, and eventually the Spirit of God. I am afraid there is not much else to be said here.

the epistles are the revelation of the scriptures, they are the explanation of the words of Jesus.

@Kobojunkiee. You are really stubborn, but argument aside. It seems that you are a preacher or a pastor.

Kobojunkiee:
Paul didn't even attempt to teach the very Gospel of the Kingdom of God as given by Jesus Christ in His many letters. Instead what Paul did was address concerns/complaints/issues that various churches had with the implementation of the details of the Gospels as documented in the Gospels. Suggesting that the words of Paul serve as substitutes of any kind to the very teachings of the Jesus Christ, New Covenant, is clear reveal that one has no real grounding in the very teachings that is the New Covenant, Jesus Christ.

Unfortunately, you look around today and you find that the vast majority of so-called Christians know of Pauls responses but not of Jesus Christ's actual teachings, as if by following Paul, they follow Jesus Christ. But Jesus Christ did warn about the blind leading the blind into a ditch, did He not?

John 16:12-15 (KJV) I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Here is what we see.
1. There are many things Jesus could not say to them because his audience could not bear them.

2. He could not say those things because of their understanding

3. Look at verse 13. Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth.
What truth? It was not personal revelation Jesus was talking about at this point.

4. When Jesus said "he will shew you things to come.
He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine." He was talking about his death, burial, resurrection and ascension

5. These were things Jesus could not speak about. Even if he did, they could not understand it, so the Spirit of truth was to reveal it to them.

6. Paul gives us an insight into what Jesus said to his disciples (John 16:12-16) in 1Cor. 2

1 Corinthians 2:9-10 (KJV) But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

The statement "as it is written" shows Paul was quoting from scriptures (Genesis to Malachi). He was quoting Isaiah in Isa. 64:4

7. In verse 10 he said God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit

What things?

Paul was not referring to a personal revelation but the revelation of Christ, This statement can also be corroborated with Ephesians 3:3-5.

Final note the epistles (letters of the Apostles) are the revelation of the scriptures. The words of Jesus must also be explained in the light of the epistles.

"he will guide you into all truth" that statement of finds fulfilment in the epistles.

Kobojunkiee:
Jesus used the Pharisees and their practices as cautionary tales for His followers. If you had bothered to read the Gospels, you would have caught on to this from even the book of Matthew. Even the very curses that are associated with the New Covenant build on examples of what not to do for those who follow Jesus Christ.

When you read through this, you will find that Jesus Christ used the Pharisees to warn His followers to avoid doctrines and traditions of men as taught by those who He tagged false prophets and teachers throughout His lessons. In the passage, He also cautioned that following after the rules of men only served to make void their worship and invalidate the power of God.

Here;s the same teaching taken from the Book of Mark


** substituted from another Bible translation for better understanding of what is impacted

What's the correlation of this with Paul's teaching.

Context

Context

Context


Context is king!!!

Context is key!!

Kobojunkiee:
If you do not know the New Covenant, the very teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in the 4 gospels, what do you understand of the writings of Paul which are supposedly based on the very teachings of Jesus Christ Himself?

The number one reason many of you misconstrue the very words of Paul, and Jesus Christ warned His followers against this, is that you have instead of Jesus Christ, taken Paul as your teacher. You essentially process Jesus Christ through the goggles you supposed that Paul has provided you instead of processing the words of Paul through the Truth that is Jesus Christ - something Jesus Christ warned His followers never to do.

** substituted from another Bible translation for better understanding of what is impacted

According to the teachings of Jesus Christ, He and He alone ought to be your only teacher and base source for the Truth that is He. But instead you feed yourself teachings that are not Jesus Christ's but somehow expect to understand Jesus Christ and who He is that way... something that can never happen and is evident in the way Christians handle the Gospel of the Kingdom even to this day.

Mark 7 vs 1-13 (ERV)

Real bible study is all about context, Jesus was complaining about the hypocrisy of the Pharisees. This had nothing to do with Paul's teaching

Kobojunkiee:
If you do not know the New Covenant, the very teachings of Jesus Christ as recorded in the 4 gospels, what do you understand of the writings of Paul which are supposedly based on the very teachings of Jesus Christ Himself?

The number one reason many of you misconstrue the very words of Paul, and Jesus Christ warned His followers against this, is that you have instead of Jesus Christ, taken Paul as your teacher. You essentially process Jesus Christ through the goggles you supposed that Paul has provided you instead of processing the words of Paul through the Truth that is Jesus Christ - something Jesus Christ warned His followers never to do.

Paul didn't watered down the words of Jesus, infact he expatiate it more both the words of Jesus and the prophets of old.

Ephesians 3:1-8 (KJV) For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Kobojunkiee:
OK. so.. if they fulfilled the requirements necessary for entering into the Kingdom of Heaven as stipulated by the New Covenant, even before His eventual death, then what does that tell you of the New Covenant?
That it was not running even while Jesus Christ was alive?

John 3:13 (KJV) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Before Christ, no man could made heaven. Before the prophets of old were waiting for the Christ.

Kobojunkiee:
Did Jesus Christ promise His disciples a place in Heaven before His death, Yes/No?

Yes

Kobojunkiee:
Well, the same "promissory note" according to Jesus Christ is required of those who intend to have eternal life in Him.

So, obviously, it was more than just some promissory note even before his death.

You need to know something about the scriptures. The Bible is a progressive revelation and the final point is the epistles. The reason why you are arguing like this, is because you know about the 4 gospels, but you need to really get familiar with epistles.

Kobojunkie:
The indwelling you speak of was only necessary after Jesus Christ had left, not before.
Jesus Christ was all-sufficient for His followers while He was on earth. His covenant was well underway and even formalized at the Last supper, at the eating of His body and the drinking of His blood for the forgiveness of sin and the sealing of the new covenant agreement between God and man.

Now, as for righteousness, well according to Jesus Christ, His disciples already met the criteria according to His New Covenant for entering into Heaven before He went to His death. So, what you said there about righteousness and the indwelling is a bit iffy if you continue to neglect the value in the work that was done with His followers even before His death.

so his disciples had the righteousness of God, before his sacrifice on the cross.

>

Kobojunkie:
The indwelling you speak of was only necessary after Jesus Christ had left, not before.
Jesus Christ was all-sufficient for His followers while He was on earth. His covenant was well underway and even formalized at the Last supper, at the eating of His body and the drinking of His blood for the forgiveness of sin and the sealing of the new covenant agreement between God and man .

Now, as for righteousness, well according to Jesus Christ, His disciples already met the criteria according to His New Covenant for entering into Heaven before He went to His death. So, what you said there about righteousness and the indwelling is a bit iffy if you continue to neglect the value in the work that was done with His followers even before His death.

That was a promissory note, it is what theologian called an aorist statement. The new covenant started after the sacrifice of Christ

Kobojunkie:

I will indulge..The disciples waited about 120 days (4 months) after His ascension for the arrival of the Spirit of God.

The indwelling of the Spirit could only be made possible under the new covenant, because men had to have righteousness of God before that could take place. Before the shedding of the blood of Jesus, new covenant was not in place stop these unnecessary argument.

The earlier verses I quoted from the book of Hebrews was explicit about that fact.

Kobojunkie:

I will indulge..The disciples waited about 120 days (4 months) after His ascension for the arrival of the Spirit of God.

That assertion is wrong, Pentecost is just fifty days after Passover.

Kobojunkie:
Nowhere in the verses you posted there are you told that Moses had to repeat the laws because of his age.

The Law was started by Moses and Finished by Moses, nothing to do with His age. Read Deuteronomy 30 where he ratified it with the people of Israel and God.

They had Jesus Christ Himself as their Teacher/Counselor/Comforter/Guide/Provider/Helper while He walked the face of the earth.

If you have ever read what Jesus Christ said of the Spirit of God in the gospel of John 16, you would realize that what in addition to serving as the seal of the New Covenant, the Spirit of God is meant to take the place of Jesus Christ, playing the same roles that He did, while He was yet on earth, to His disciples.

I know that before you are still not answering the question.

Kobojunkie:
Moses was the one through whom the law was given to the people of Israel and when he was FINISHED with the details of the Law, it was essentially made official. The law ended where Moses finalized it and read it out to the people. Go back and read the last chapters of Deuteronomy to understand that His reading of the law had little to nothing to do with His age and more to do with the law being complete and ready for the people to officially accept the terms as laid out by God in His covenant.

Jesus Christ and His disciples lived the New Covenant 3.5 years or so before His death, meaning that the details of the law were already available and being practiced long before His death on the cross. Obviously, that tells you that the New Covenant started before He shed His blood on the cross.

You need to rid yourself of the doctrine and teachings you have heard taught you in the past of these to in fact see the Truth of what is in front of you.

While Jesus Christ was alive, His disciples were recorded to have gone against old covenant teaching in His name, obviously in their obedience of the New Covenant, they were assumed to have violated some of the old laws as a result. Even Jesus Christ Himself was eventually killed for this, meaning the New Covenant was in motion before His death.

Deuteronomy 31:1-3 (KJV) And Moses went and spake these words unto all Israel.
And he said unto them, I am an hundred and twenty years old this day; I can no more go out and come in: also the LORD hath said unto me, Thou shalt not go over this Jordan.
The LORD thy God, he will go over before thee, and he will destroy these nations from before thee, and thou shalt possess them: and Joshua, he shall go over before thee, as the LORD hath said.

He had to repeat the law again since he was handing over to Joshua.

Answer this simple question, did the disciples had the indwelling of the spirit before the CROSS

Kobojunkie:
Like I already explained to you, both Covenant were already in practice long before they were ratified.



Moses ratified the Old Covenant in Deuteronomy 30 but God already had the people of Israel living their lives according to the rules of the Old Covenant long before then.
Jesus Christ did it on the cross. But before then, His disciples had already been living their lives according to the covenant meaning it all started before His death.

Is this a joke or what? Moses read the the Mosaic law again in Deut. 29 to 31, because he was already old in age and his death was drawing near.

Deuteronomy 31:1-2 (KJV) And Moses went and spake these words unto all Israel.
And he said unto them, I am an hundred and twenty years old this day; I can no more go out and come in: also the LORD hath said unto me, Thou shalt not go over this Jordan.

there was no ratification there.

Jesus sacrifice on the cross gave birth to the new covenant, because that was when men could have holy spirit indwelling them, before that none of the disciples were in the new covenant.

Mehn. You are so good at twisting scriptures out of context.

Kobojunkie:
My mistake about where Paul wrote of the slave-woman and the free-woman. But the point remains that in his letters, Paul does provide details of the New Covenant but instead argues why those who believe(have received salvation as a result of their belief in Jesus Christ) ought also to adopt the entire covenant instead of any other.

About the New Covenant starting after the death of Jesus Christ, well, that is not entirely true. It was ratified after His death but as for when it started, probably the moment Jesus Christ began going around teaching it. Also remember, His followers who heard His teachings were already putting into practice, His teachings on the New Covenant, while He was yet alive and still with them, 3.5 years or so before His death.

In the Old Testament, God started giving Moses the details of the Old Covenant for him to write beginning from Exodus 12 and from then on, God also began weeding out those who would not enter into Canaan as well. It was not until Deuteronomy 30 that the Old Covenant was ratified, and it was several years buter before they in fact entered into the land of Canaan,but long before then, it was already in practice. So it would be faulty to claim the Old covenant started the moment the Israelites entered into Canaan, would it not?

I see similarities between the way the Old and New Covenants were started and eventually ratified.

Hebrews 9:15-22 (KJV) And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

For any covenant to start there has to be shedding of blood and the blood that ushered us into the New covenant was Christ's. So the new covenant started after the death of Christ.

Kobojunkie:
Unfortunately, it is clear that you don't even begin to know about the New Covenant because you to keep bringing up what Paul said about the slave-woman and the free-woman in His letter to the Hebrew believers who had a hard time letting go of the old covenant laws and adopting the lighter laws of the new Covenant.

Paul never provides the details of the New Covenant in his many letters so the only way to learn the details of each covenant is to read from the documentation of each. The Old covenant is documented in the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. Whereas the New Covenant is documented in detail in the 4 Gospels, each of them with a different focus but on the same New Covenant, Jesus Christ.

Also, the letter Paul wrote to the Hebrew Christians(Note they were already saved to begin with as you are informed in the very first chapter of Hebrew) was written in other to help the Hebrews understand why obeying the New Covenant was expedient, even as descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Many of them where hesitant about giving up the Old Covenant ways as given them by their fathers as their inheritance in God and understandably so. But Jesus Christ, the New Covenant was clear on not storing Old wine in New wine skin - both covenants are separate and needed to be handled as such.

That was to the Galatians .

The new covenant started after the death of Christ, the 4 gospels are just historical accounts signifying the life of Jesus.

But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth
His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so
that He might redeem those who were under the Law,
that we might receive the adoption as sons.
Galatians 4:4 – 5 (NASB)
Jesus was born under the law just like everybody else.
The New Covenant was not established through His birth;
rather, it was established through His death.
For this reason He is the mediator of a New Covenant,
so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were  committed  under the first covenant, those who have been called may  receive the promise of  the eternal inheritance.
For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be
the death of the one who made it.  For a covenant is
valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force
while the one who made it lives. Therefore even the
first covenant was not inaugurated without blood.
Hebrews 9:15 – 18 (NASB)
This simply means that everything that took place
before the cross happened under the Old Covenant, and every teaching that was taught before the cross was taught under the law. I am not saying that we are to disregard all teaching that occurred before the cross; I am saying that we need to change the lens through which we read scriptures.
The Old Covenant lens was the law. The NewCovenant lens is the cross. Interpreting a biblical teaching without taking the cross into account leads to Old Covenant theology, which in turn results in death and condemnation. For us to rightly divide and apply the truth of scripture, we must filter it through the finished work of Jesus.

sammy329:


Let me ask a simple question, when did the new covenant started?? Before the death of Christ or after the death of Christ

This is simple enough, there's a point I'm trying to make.

Kobojunkie:
I don't understand the New Covenant that is embodied in the person of Jesus Christ, how?

And please try to quote Jesus Christ Himself who is the New Covenant in your response. Quoting from a letter amounts to trying to prove truth by quoting conjecture.

, you don't even understand the meaning of covenant. Calm down, be open minded, learn from the epistles, try and patiently read the book of Hebrews it will help you to understand the scriptures better.

You are like Apollo's who was mighty in quoting the scriptures but has a half knowledge.