₦airaland Forum

EnlightenedSoul:
@ Somguy

Update: Though, I've quite a few initial thoughts and reactions, upon [re]reading your post, I felt it necessary to familiarize myself with the individuals and works you've directly and heavily referenced to form your assertions, so as not to speak with blind ignorance as to the embodiment of your stance. Of which, to be frank, only Walter Lippmann and his concept of the "bewildered herd" (which is what I assume you're referring to with regard to stereotypes) was I previously aware. So far, I've perused 70 pages of "Propaganda" by E. Bernays, an easy-peasy 150 pg. production, this evening after leisure. I will also read your cited work of Fanon's, "White Skin, Black Masks", of a significantly longer 255 pages, both of which I've found easily downloadable PDF files for.

Meanwhile, I will respond to the rest of your response that doesn't deal so much with cited texts, namely those regarding my person:



I do not think you can accurately divide American culture into so-called "White culture" and "Black culture", but if we were to, for argument's sake, you'd have to concede the fact that so-called "Black culture" greatly influences the American psyche, in fact, the world, in myriad ways. The stereotypes you spoke of are hardly propagated by what I'm sure is what you'd call "White culture", through the Hollywood lens, but overwhelmingly by Blacks themselves, who're in charge of programming. Take a look at BET and facets of popular American pop culture, and you'll find these "stereotypical" images everywhere. Heck, you can dash it all and watch a Tyler Perry movie to get all what I mean.

Anyhoo, as aforementioned, I made that statement due to my own personal observations and experiences, as well as the secondhand experiences of others known to me. And, as it so happens, my limited interactions have thus far fit the stereotypes.
I'm a classical feminist, an agnostic atheist, a moderate whose been active in local elections since 18, but has never taken part in any national campaign/election thus far, and perhaps never will (the closest I've ever come being support for Libertarian candidate, Ron Paul). None of these labels have made me an untouchable (certainly not that I've noticed anyway), so to speak, among fellow Americans and young immigrants alike, whether of moderate, progressive, or conservative leaning, many of whom do not practice religion, or are pro free-thought even if they do. Others needn't "apply", as we wouldn't vibe anyhow. If the US is anything at all, it's a giant cacophony of many different peoples and ideas, which is another reason why your literally Black and White "White/Black culture" breakdown is false.

Do you live in the US?

Thanks for your reply.

Have you dated AA men before? How were your experiences? What are some of the negative traits that you observed? I have noticed that many African women (from both East and West) avoid AA men like the plague. I've always chalked it up to negative stereotypes since I don't believe in painting an entire group of people with the same brush. But on the other hand, people have a right to make a decision based on their own reality and past experiences.

I'll respond to the rest of your post in a short while.

.

Kenyanna:
Hahaha this place has moderators?
Where have you been? Who the hell did I threaten?
So you want us to stop derailing the thread huh..sigh...the main point of this thread OP is to backhandedly insult Nigerians. This entire thread should be deleted.

I have no hate for Nigerians unlike you. Please do not speak on my behalf.

It's also quite interesting to note that you associate AA culture with thuggery and hip-hop music. I am assuming that you associate "white culture" with more positivity.

Couldn't you just as well have associated "white culture" with genocides, racism, school-shootings, serial killers, redneck Trump supporters, the destruction of our planet, colonialism, slavery etc..?

EnlightenedSoul:
but completely ignore the actual subjects of the conversation; women born/raised/living in Western climes who're dating white men, and who's utter reliance on a so-called foreign brainwashing mechanism cannot be held suspect. Any woman who's actually dated white men will tell you the average white man mostly differs from the average African, or African-American man, culturally.

I think that you are being overly simplistic in your analysis. You cannot undermine the significance of the stereotypes that are propagated through the media in colouring how some people of colour come to view their own people vs. white people (the dominant culture). Logically speaking, the "brainwashing mechanism" would be even greater in a white society than in Africa due to a closer proximity to the dominant culture as well as a diluted cultural identity on the part of the immigrant population. Immigrants in the West are constantly told that their native cultures are inferior and that in order to become more "civilised" and "advanced", they need to adopt the cultural norms of the host nation (which, by the way, are also exported to Africa - sometimes at the point of a gun). People internalise this propaganda to varying degrees. It is not unthinkable that many African women in the West come to view white men as being inherently superior to their own. In fact, some will even say this outright (they are all over the internet). This isn't just a random theory by the way. PR-specialists such as Walter Lippman and Edward Bernays have spoken at length about the far-reaching role of the media in propagating stereotypes and how these stereotypes can then be used to influence and control people through perception. Perception is reality as they say. If you want to understand how this specifically applies to colonised people, then check out Frantz Fanon's "White Skin, Black Masks" in which he describes this phenomenon at length and in great detail.

I'm not saying that every black person who chooses to marry a white person is doing so based on self-hate. There are, however, certain dynamics that cannot be ignored especially in the case of someone from a colonised nation who chooses to exclusively date/marry someone other than their own people.

As for your statement that you would much rather marry a white man than an AA, then this indicates (at least to me) that you feel closer to "white culture" than AA culture (perhaps even more than your own Somali culture?). Judging by your posts here, you seem like a liberal/progressive atheist/agnostic feminist (please correct me if I am wrong, I base this on some things you wrote in the religion forum as well as your posts here), which kind of explains why you have a closer cultural affinity to a white person rather than the average African/AA. There is a larger pool of whites who share your ideals than the average African or AA person, so that's quite natural IMO. That by itself would not indicate "self-hate". IF, however, you choose to exclusively date/marry white men and categorically refuse to even entertain the thought of dating men who come from a similar background, then that would strongly indicate a level of internalised racism.

It would also be interesting to look into why you've adopted certain concepts/beliefs that evolved within the specific context of "white culture", and thus cannot be assumed to be universally applicable, as your own culture. But maybe that's a topic for a different thread and would side-track this current discussion.

Looking forward to your reply.

Ps. can you please try to make it as concise as possible??

nubian999:
From this moment on I will ignore you. badh naag ha noqon waan ku baryay


I am not your problem. You do not have to agree with me but please don't come for me. I think differently to you, I have been here longer than you. I appreciate what you are trying to do but I am not happy with the way you are doing it. Walaasha baan ahay and i will not insult you so leave me please. Asalaamu calaykum maxaa ku xiga?

With all due respect walaaley gacaliso, I did not even insult you. If anything you were the one who came at me out of the blue for no reason.

We can disagree on a topic and even correct one another without resorting to insults and putting each other down. I understand that you have been longer than I have, but I still believe that you guys are being unfair in your criticism of Fulaman based on what I have witnessed in the few months that I have been here.

Fulaman198:
Enlightened, the problem is that I'm being falsely accused of being a bigot, of being partial to the trolls, of closing threads that SHOULD BE CLOSED because they violate particular rules. I'm not quite sure what I'm doing wrong. I have disagreed with your allegations of being partial and agreeing with the trolls but you insist I do, there's nothing I can do if you don't believe me, it seems as if your mind has been set in regards to that. Then you said I was bigoted towards other Nigerians that are not Fulani but in every thread I am the one telling Nigerians of all ethnic groups to never forget who they are and to never abandon their respective cultures in favour of Westernised ones.

I can't win with you this week can I?

If I can point out one thing that you could've done better in dealing with that thread (and similar thread), it would be to delete the whole mess instead of closing it. The whole thread was created for the purpose of degrading an entire group of people.

On the other hand, I've noticed that threads are hardly ever deleted here which is why many of the vile, racist trash that the Somali trolls have posted is still on the forum, so I guess people can not accuse you of being biased in that regard.

nubian999:
This is why you on nl to kiss ass. Do you Job full stop i don't need your life story. @ EnlightenedSoul... Ha walaal waan soo noqday. He act like i don't know his bs attitude of joining in and enjoying the trolls madness. Rules are broken it's your job to fix it not mine.

Why would he enjoy watching Somali trolls insult Nigerian people when he himself is a Nigerian?? Seriously?? You're going to blame him for the trash that we've produced?

VomeSchakleton:
I guess that's why I love this forum, it seems to be one of the few places where people show their actual colours. Smh. Make all sorts of trouble then try to flex like they gandhi.

Anyways, just know that your efforts haven't gone unnoticed and I and every other sane person in the culture section appreciate you.

Fulaman seems like a sincere guy. I used to be Mod of a very popular site with lots of traffic and I can understand where he is coming from. The truth is that you can't really win with anyone if you're a mod. Some people will think that you are too biased/unfair/strict, others will accuse you of not doing your job properly. Most of the time, these people don't know all the hard work that is done behind the scenes. People will have some unfair expectations of you as if you do not have a life outside of the internet and as if being a mod is a paid job.

It's also very frustrating to keep following these trolls around every time they pop back up with a new account. You can IP-ban, but even that is futile since they can just use a VPN and use a different IP.

WeissMaganti:
Leave you out of it yet you keep commenting on HIS thread even when you're not invited. Gee, some people really define effortless stupidity. They really make it hard for someone not to insult them. I'm not one to judge but this man lady really has a despicable personality.

Some people just love the attention. Best to ignore them.

nubian999:
for your mind yeah... like you said you are new. welcome. YOU don't decide who comments on a thread... Nl: 101.


I have no problem with you so don't make me your problem please. just enjoy nl and leave me out of it.

If you want to be treated with respect, learn how to respect others.

Saying things like "Nacas", "forever hold your peace" etc.. If you don't want to participate in a thread, just stop posting. I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just using common sense.

Yeah a tougher skin is definitely needed.

I'm glad something positive came out of this thread.

VomeSchakleton:
Yeah we do have a lot in common culturally, linguistically and religiously but I don't know about genetically. I don't have anything against Somalis either but when I see people like nubian999 doing a complete u turn character wise it's very suspicious. Anyways, I guess in the end we're both trying to defend our people, I went back through your old posts and it seems you have been chastising these trolls. No hard feelings.

By the way, I'm not saying this do defend this nubian999 character, but believe me when I say it's hard to stay quiet in the face of blatant disrespect and nasty insults. We all have this instinctive urge to want to defend our own, but sometimes it's best to not even engage in the ignorance I guess. It's also true what Wulfruna said, I should have reminded myself that this whole mess was caused by these Somali trolls who have been causing trouble here for years instead of getting all tribal.

Baaballiyo:
Hmmmm I keep wondering why the obsession with looks and beauty on a culture thread ?? Something neither of us have control over. As a west African, I was hoping to know much about other people's culture, especially other Africans but it seems all am getting so far, its a beauty contest/argument. Hope we would start talkin about our cultures and keep the beauty contests a side, for its an argument none of us will WIN. Be cause beauty besides been in " the eye of the be holder" its something common to all tribes and ethnicities. All tribes have the extremely beautifuls, the very beautifuls, the beautifuls and the not so beautifuls.

This was in response to a very hateful thread. I've seen us being negatively stereotyped by other Africans before so I was trying to dispel some myths. In hindsight I see how this thread was kind of useless though. No point arguing over aesthetics.

nubian999:
You are helping the cause by doing this

This is what the somali trolls did with Our Sisters Pictures. Those are people's brothers did you ask before you exploit them to beg friends?

why not open a thread teaching our culture? why the obsession with looks?


nacas. Good luck and have fun


I am done with section. so quit quoting me.

Grow up. These pictures are public and all over the Internet. I've never insulted you so kindly refrain from insulting me.

And your response in that thread was very disgraceful to say the least so you should be the last one to talk.

VomeSchakleton:
Yeah we do have a lot in common culturally, linguistically and religiously but I don't know about genetically. I don't have anything against Somalis either but when I see people like nubian999 doing a complete u turn character wise it's very suspicious. Anyways, I guess in the end we're both trying to defend our people, I went back through your old posts and it seems you have been chastising these trolls. No hard feelings.

I see what you mean bro. Apologies for disrespecting you earlier.

Hausa are Afro-Asiatic speakers. All Afro-Asiatic speakers have a common ancestry according to linguists and this is confirmed by geneticists. There's plenty of info on that online.

Come to think of it, it's African Americans who are obsessed with Horners more so than West Africans, even though I've seen it a lot there too.

Those of "our" women (I'm saying "our" because we don't own them) who are intelligent see it for what it is: a fetish. They understand that they are being reduced to objects of pleasure by these men and it makes them really uncomfortable. The less intelligent ones think it's flattering to get all this attention and end up being played by these guys who just see them as a bucket list item. I've seen this happen a couple of times.

Wulfruna:
On this I agree. There are quite a good number of West Africans who obsess over women from the Horn, and women of mixed-race background. It is as shameful as it is annoying. There was one here a few years ago who literally begged the Somali troll to hook him up. I gave him a piece of my mind though.

You look at music videos and all these black artistes (Nigerian artistes, as well) want to do is fill up everywhere with women that have a particular look - light skin, straight nose, soft hair. It's like a mental illness. My mum is part-German and I get her looks, and as much as I want to protect my Nigerian brothers, the level of attention I get from them just for looking the way I do sometimes just sickens me.

Yes, it is a problem. I can't fault you on that.

The funny thing is that most people from the horn don't even fit the stereotype that these trolls are trying to paint. Believe me. The trolls who bombard this forum with pictures only choose the lightest, most "exotic" looking types. I've seen just as many attractive West Africans as I've seen Horners. And like I said, I think y'all West African women are gorgeous and deserve to be loved and appreciated.

As for those who obsess about Horners, then it could be anything from the grass appearing to be greener on the other side or due to them being brainwashed to only desire a certain kind of phenotype. There is absolutely no logical reason for why dark skin and kinky hair should be seen as inferior to curly hair and lighter skin. It's all conditioning at the end of the day.

Fulaman198:
I do agree with you to a certain extent in regards to the amount of posts people make in regards to women from the Horn. I do find Horn women beautiful too, but to me, they aren't more beautiful than West African ladies. I feel that all African women are beautiful and deserve to be worshipped, respected and cared for. All African women deserve threads that are dedicated to them be it Nigerian women, Somali women, Ghanaian women, Ethiopian women, Senegalese women, Kenyan women, Malian women, Eritrean women, etc. etc.

Women are very beautiful and a gift to this Earth and do deserve to be cherished.

Yes, women should definitely be appreciated. I,too, find West African women to be very beautiful.

Also, I'll admit I let my anger get the best of me and overreacted, but I was not trying to put Naija people down. I've always respected the Nigerian people and was even a fan of the Naija national team. Okocha, Amukachi etc were my heroes lol.

I do stand by what I said regarding some West Africans inflating the egos of Horners though. I'm Somali yet even I am beginning to get fed up by how arrogant all this unnecessary attention has made some of them. If you do a Google search right now you will find a bunch of threads on a number of different forums that are dedicated to horner women. That foolishness has made some people from the Horn become haughty and arrogant.

Wulfruna:
Somguy, I think you are basically a good person. But you may be whining a bit here, to be honest.

You are miffed about Somali women being called desperate, and Somalia women bring called ugly and effeminate.

But here is the truth, and I believe I have already said this on another thread: Nigerians were not attacking Somalis (Nigerians on this forum hardly even took notice of the Somali people) before the troll came here and just started insulting Nigerians for absolutely NO reason.

Here is a list of a FEW of the things we've been called:

1. Slaves
2. Ugly monkeys and apes
3. Primitive, culture-less and without history
4. Our women are wh.ores
5. Our women look like men.
6. We are unintelligent.
7. We eat every vile thing on the face of the earth.

The list is endless. Every kind of insult you can think of has been hurled at us. We were on our own, on our forum, minding our business, and your countryman just came here and started hurling insults all around, posting selected pictures of ugly people (yes, those pictures you posted, the Somali troll has already used them and more, and all the points you made on this post have already been made by him in a gazillion posts - so congratulations for sounding just like him).

What Nigerians have been doing here is merely clapping back - something I'm VERY sure you, too, will do if a Nigerian shows up on Somalinet to insult your people. Why you want to whine about that and create a thread with an endless cascade of pictures of good-looking Horn people (again, the Somali troll gas already shown as like 60% of those pictures), I don't understand. Are you telling Nigerians to keep quiet in the face of unprovoked insults? Please answer this question.

I understand what you're saying here, sister, but as grownups do you really think it makes sense to stoop to the level of some stupid trolls who are clearly trying to cause disunity and pit us all against each other?? These idiots don't even make sense half of the time and refer to Nigerians as Bantus. What on God's green earth do Nigerians have to do with Bantus??

I don't know. Maybe I'm being unfair to you guys though. On one hand, you have the right to respond in kind. That's your God-given right and the blame is not on you for responding but on the person who provoked you. But on the other hand, shouldn't those of us who have sense check those from amongst us who transgress the boundaries? That's what I came here to do; check these losers and show you all that they do not represent us.

Again, maybe it's me who is being unfair here. I can't say I know how it feels to deal with these animals and their million accounts for so many years.

Fulaman198:
Yeah it's ok, just try to be a gentleman. I have read your posts in the past, and you seem very pro-African. Just be yourself. Have tough skin around here, because there are a lot of people with a juvenile mindset that think it's a justifiable act to insult other peoples ethnic groups.

Yes, you're absolutely right. I kind of regret letting that stuff get to me to be honest. I hadn't been online for a minute so I decided to come back and see what I had missed. One of the first things I saw was that particular thread and it really made my blood boil. You're right, it's wrong to condemn a whole group for the actions of a few.

Fulaman198:
No worries, please remember that even though we moderators try to be perfect, there will be posts that we miss. That's why the report function was implemented. We do make mistakes from time to time but we do try to be just and fair. You have to remember that this is an unpaid job, so most of the time, we will often just skim through posts and hide the ones we find offensive without reading the entire content. But if you report a post, it is more than likely to be hidden/deleted.

OK, that's very understandable. Maybe I overreacted as well. Thanks bro.

Fulaman198:
We both know that Somali men are very respectful to their women and that Somali women are great women. In the future, please report such posts as I do understand that no one likes their ethnic group being insulted. Remember, they are breaking

2. Don't abuse, bully, deliberately insult/provoke, fight, or wish harm to Nairaland members OR THEIR TRIBES.
3. Don't threaten, support or DEFEND violent acts against any person, tribe, race, animals, or group (e.g. rape).

So if someone upsets you and acts bigoted towards your people, remember it's in violation of the rules on here. Please report it, Moderators can not go through every single post. Thanks!

I guess that's fair enough. I was mostly upset with some senior members who I thought were decent, yet they were in there as well yet nobody told that stupid person off.

Thanks.

Fulaman198:
It's ok to make threads that praise your respective culture(s), however in doing so please do not insult the cultures of others. It's completely unfruitful and unproductive. Thus, your first post was hidden. If you find a post insulting, please use the report feature. Thanks!

That whole thread was insulting. Painting our women as desperate and shameless and the men as ugly, effeminate weaklings.

Fulaman198:
No worries I'm surprised you can't see it, hmm I can. I'll unhide first post.

Just tell me what I should edit and I will do it. I'm not here to troll, just express my opinions.

Is it the bit about dudes worshipping horner women?? I see how that was offensive, even though I was trying to make a fair point.

Fulaman198:
If you go to your thread, it wasn't deleted. The first post was hidden. Your thread is still active and well.

The whole thread is gone. I've looked for it and even used search.

You could at least ask me to edit out some stuff. Considering the stuff that is left unchecked around here my thread was pretty harmless

Why did you delete my thread and left the one I was responding to?? If you are going to delete my thread defending Somali guys, at least have the common decency to also delete the one where we are being degraded! I wasn't even trolling or insulting Nigerian people.

This place seems very corrupt.

Eritrean:
wow! Handsome Somali men

Where i live there is a small Somali community and me and my friends always sit at a park closeby and we noticed how freaking good looking the men are when they pass us by hahaha

People from the horn pretty much look alike if you ask me lol. Eritrean women are gorgeous!

VomeSchakleton:
And what exactly have I done so far that falls under the category of 'crap'? You don't have to take anything from me, you don't owe me anything, my point is, you and your compatriots have painted a very disturbing and grotesque picture of Somalis, heck the friends I have, I'm starting to question because you all are starting to seem like slimy snakes to me.

If you weren't one of those who were insulting us, then there is no reason for you to freak out.

If the stuff that's been posted by some random people online is enough to make you question your real life friends then I'm afraid you're the slimy one here.

I was simply standing up for my people. And unlike the people in that disgusting thread, I did not insult all Nigerians.

I understand the urge and need to stand up for your people. I also believe in eye for an eye so I've tried to overlook most of the hate that you've sent our way and blamed it on the trolls for antagonising you. But every man has his breaking point.

You're Hausa, which means that our people have a lot in common both linguistically, genetically, culturally and religiously. I have no hate for your people or any other Nigerian ethnic group. But you can't expect me to just bow down and take any kind of crap that you throw at me.