₦airaland Forum

DK Jaleel: he was claiming there is no experiment or evidence to prove evolution, and i tried telling him one of d most obvious examples in recent times..
Imagine him saying mosquito is the causative agent for malaria...and mosquito has adapted to quinine...that guy is a dunce...

so a mistake misplacing plasmodium for "mosquito" is what is making you dance around and feel yourself like this? Lol.

Childish.
Pathetic.

Manhunter™:
It is a righteous and holy play-play.

But I do know about Jesus, he is an open book.

no you don't. You even believe he is a fictional character. If you really knew about him, you wouldn't be so quick to mock.

It is unwise to mock what you don't know about.

Like a man mocking bill gates because he believes no one can have that much money.

Manhunter™:
Another shameless fanboy. Superman trounces Jesus, get over it already. My fictional character is better than yours.

sorry, I favour intelligent debates not foolish mockery. Anyone who subscribes to this nonsense embarrasses himself.

Well, maybe this makes you feel a little good.

Suit yourself. Continue in your mockery.

Pathetic thread.

Front page: https://www.nairaland.com/1513222/god-move-mountains-phillipinos-betrayed

Kay 17: Wouldn't all humans be products of inbreeding amongst Adam's kids?! And those kids wld have mated with other kids of Adam and Adam's grandkids wld have mated with other grandkids; the pool of inbreeding wld become polluted generation by generation with the same rate of entropy!

It is soo clear

genetic diversification would mean that it will be less likely to get terrible genetic disorders as humans diversified and married from far off, and it will be more likely that humans will get complete genetic disorders during direct inbreeding due to similar alelles from the parents.

david_hume: Foolish response as usual!

What multitude are you talking about?
You seem to have forgotten the following:

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matthew 7:14
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:13
Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Luke 13:24
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:21

always try to understand what the bible says.
here is what the bible says in direct correlation with tribulations(tests) and heaven:

Revelation 7:9-12 I looked again. I saw a huge crowd, too huge to count. Everyone was there—all nations and tribes, all races and languages. And they were standing, dressed in white robes and waving palm branches, standing before the Throne and the Lamb and heartily singing:
Salvation to our God on his Throne! Salvation to the Lamb! All who were standing around the Throne—
...
13-14 Just then one of the Elders addressed me: "Who are these dressed in white robes, and where did they come from?" Taken aback, I said, "O Sir, I have no idea—but you must know."

15-17 Then he told me, "These are those who come from the great tribulation, and they've washed their robes, scrubbed them clean in the blood of the Lamb. That's why they're standing before God's Throne.

Deep Sight: Good work. . . . but you are wasting your time with this man.

lol.

Image123: So much presuppositions all at once. Testing BTW is like refining. Like refining gold. Gold has to be tested to bring out the quality. The smith does not leave gold unrefined just because he knows the quality.
1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
Jam 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

thank you for your words sir.

Mr Troll: wtf How is this a reasonable answer to my question? State the purpose of Man and Angels and how that of man required a test while angels didn't and this is the nonsense you could come up with?

angels are made complete and with no need of refining through tests. They are simply messengers. That is why when they rebel, there is no salvation for them.

i.diot. As man was not already built up according to you, is he not still damned forever for rebelling? What nonsense are you spewing here?
If after 'studying' the matter this is your best reply then by all means SHIFT!

excuse me? The test was supposed to make him better. He simply failed the test and even became a criminal. You are not just damned for rebellion, you are damned in these days for refusing to take the solution for your rebellion, thereby bearing the full responsibility for your actions. Simple.
Find time to read the bible before arguing without complete natural knowledge of what you're arguing about sir. Thank you.

lol, butthurt much?

lol.

wiegraf: Well, if you actually thought you added any value to this convo...well..... You only demonstrated how religion poisons the mind, terribly. You say god isn't subject to reason, yet he cannot make sinless freewill

Read that again you eediot?! Do you require a diagram?! Mayhaps in crayons as well...

Stoopid people don't often know they're stoopid. Actually, this has been [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect]studied[/url].

Kudos

lol. After seeing the futile foolishness of saying God does not have freewill you resort to this again?

Sorry, but I've explained why saying God should create "sinless freewill" is foolish and self destructive in itself. That God is above reason does not mean he will subscribe to foolishness.

wiegraf: Clinically insane people do not usually know they are insane. That asides, this is what you state here; god must act as foretold yet he has freewill

Thank you, that will be all.

@rationaldude and @rationalmind, are you the same person??

see how you show more brain rot and foolishness. And yet you speak like someone capable of rational thought.


Please tell me, how does God knowing and choosing how to react when an action is done render him without freewill?


I'm sorry everyone, but I'm done here. I'm out.

The bible says a fool says there is no god. This is a plain example of the great depths of camouflage foolishness one can sink to in order to defend stupidity.

Mr Troll: pls state the purpose of each and tell me how the purpose of Angels did not require them to be tested but that of man required a test, a test even that the eventual outcome was already known.

angels can't be redeemed Mr. There is no salvation available for them. Once they rebel, they have rebelled.

Mr Troll: Why not create him already built up? Why give a test that you already knew he would fail, and then damn them for eternity unless they believe in the vicarious sacrifice of a part of yourself thousands of years later? All this presumably known before setting anything in motion. . . I ask again, have you really though about this nonsense you all are spewing here daily?

of course i disagree. Have you given any proper reason?

I have a private jet. You disagree? Show how i don't have one without going into a fit.

Angels were created already built up. And they were damned forever when they rebelled, because they were already built up. Do good to study these matters before embarrasing yourself publicly.


The unfortunate thing is the way people more foolish cheer you on in your ignorance.

david_hume: And when man failed the test, why did he continue with the failed project?

Didn't he learn anything from the failed project of Lucifer and co?

I guess he just couldn't swallow the fact that he's just a piece of shyte creator who can't get the basics right!

I wish Einstein was there to tell him this:
Insanity; doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results!

God is reaping a multitude for heaven foolish man. As I said, you should read the bible before speaking in plain ignorance.

aManFromMars: @harbinger:
Does God know the exact choice my unborn descendants will make?

yes. He's all knowing.

Mr Troll: Why must man be tested? Were the angels tested before they were created directly into heaven? Wetin im de test us for, knowing the final outcome already. Do you people think at all?

do you think?

Angels were created for a purpose, man was created for a purpose.

Man had to be tested sooner or later.

If I begin to explain these things in the way I want to explain them, you might not understand.

Okay. It was better to allow man to make his choice before eating from the life tree and living forever completely.

Man must be tested. Why? To be built up.

You disagree? Try to show why without going into a fit.

david_hume: Why didn't God just isolate satan from the garden of Eden in the first place?

because a man must be tested.

aManFromMars: Sorry. Just going through this thread. Forgive me if a few of the points have already been addressed.


No, except you attempt to redefine omniscience.

define omniscience then, and show me how Gods omniscience and man's actions must be inclusive.

aManFromMars: Imagine that you go into the future and observe yourself killing your son. When you get back to the present, wouldn't that knowledge influence your present decisions? Wouldn't you make attempts to ensure you do not kill your son? What if you end up not killing him?

of course that knowledge of my own future would influence my present actions.
But God knows mans future, and he has done all he can to make sure your future ends up perfect my good man. The choice is yours

aManFromMars: The point has been made on this board repeatedly. God knows exactly what choice you'll make. That's omniscience. I would even venture to say that from an omniscient's being perspective, we have no choice really. Just like the characters in a story.

no friend, that's where you're wrong. You cannot venture to say from his perspective we have no choice when you have already said he knows the choice you'll make.

And you cannot conclude that his knowledge of the choice you'll make constrains you, when its your choice to make

aManFromMars: Yeah, i think our choices can also surprise God.

wiegraf: Look at that bolded. Look at it and try your bestestestest to think on it. I could not have been any clearer in my earlier post....

If we told you religion rots the brains, you'd whine. What in the world??

How it blinds you from seeing the so glaringly obvious is beyond me.... Just as some you mock the likes of onyfrank... yet jewish zombie

Anyways, disregarding that, how in the world is this about your opinion? Also are you dictating to your omnipotent overlord what he can and cannot do? This is really simple, try to limit shooting yourself in the foot again; must all of god's own future actions take place as foretold?

Really simple.

Thanks

the only brain rot I see here is yours.

As foretold? Yes.

david_hume: Joshthefirst said that angels have free will.
YOU said that sin comes with free will.
Therefore, there's no guarantee that angel Gabriel won't sin in the future!
And if man retains his free will in heaven, there's no guarantee that he won't use it to commit sin!

Is this what y'all are trying to tell us?

yes, sin can come with freewill.

There is no guarantee that angel gabriel won't sin in the future if he chooses to do so. But I believe angel gabriel has learned his lesson from his contemporaries in the bible who failed woefully in their sin and rebellion against God.(You should read the bible to have better understanding of my words), I don't think angels will rebel again, having seen its long term effects.

But mind you. The bible tells of a time when sin will be dealt with completely. By removing all sinful elements (who have shown so by their freewill) and isolating them from the good.

nnofaith: If god cannot create sinless freewill then he is not omnipotent

it is silly of you to make this conclusion.

Define what you want God to create first then: what is "sinless freewill" then.

What would it entail in a created thing?

rationalmind: Exactly. Where was deepsight when Ihe was asserting God can make 1+1=3? If he can do that, why is it difficult to create sinless freewill.

Let's all remb he made dry bones human, he made a donkey talk, he made singing make a fence collapse. These are seemingly impossible and contradictory things. Why then is it difficult to create a sinless man with freewill?

I'm sorry, but saying God should create "sinless freewill" is saying he should change the actual definitions of those words in our case of reality. God does what he pleases. And he certainly wouldn't do what you want(which would mean starting over) because of your unbelieving silliness.

God chose to make man, in his own image. He saw it good.

wiegraf: I hope you are joking and not having issues comprehending the simplest of things.

Uyi's position is that god can make 1+1=3. In other words, he isn't subject to logic. He has repeated this how many times now?

Now, if god isn't subject to reason, again, I ask

[size=15pt]WHY DIDN'T GOD CREATE SINLESS FREEWILL??[/size]

Don't forget, god isn't subject to reason, therefore anything goes. I hope that clears that up.

It seems you're really serious with the question, and others follow this your irrational line of thinking.
God was creating human beings, who would be subject to reason, that's why he made them with freewill.
God chose to create human beings. There is no such attribute as sinless freewill man. It is contradictory in itself and silly. Unless you would want God to change the definition of reality, which I don't see him doing any time soon because of impotent thinking.

As for your post, like I already said, this here is mostly about culpability, not omnixx whargarbl. Even without the omnixx nonsense, he is still very culpable for the 'sins' of man. But if you persist, and you, unlike great thinker @ihe accept that god is subject to reason, then please, do tell exactly how god himself can have freewill if he's omniscient? If he does not act exactly the way he has predicted, then exactly how does he be omniscient?

Thank you.

God chooses his own ways and his own reactions to our choices. God can never be subject to reason. But we know his character, and why would he choose to break reason in some cases without having a reason?

wiegraf: Listen, bros, I suggest you stop wasting server space running around shooting yourself left right centre. You seem to suddenly forget fermions, and how you could claim there are no mathematical truths is beyond me.......

Anyways, now, simple. No more nonsense please. You assert your god can make 1+1=3 (oh wow).. In other words, logic is useless as he can supersede it, anything goes to him. Anything, no if's or but's, ok? As that is the case

[size=15pt]WHY DIDN'T GOD CREATE SINLESS FREEWILL??[/size]

Simple question. Please, don't insult our intelligence. Thank you.

I hope you're joking my good man. You have insulted your own intelligence by asking such a question, contradicting in itself.

Any adjective like such in your question; "sinless" before freewill makes freewill cease to be freewill.


I sincerely hope you're joking.


And you have not answered my question.

frank3.16:
Since u believe god just knows our future plans yet gives us choice to make them, do u think gods knowledge of of our futrure plans must Or must not come to pass?

Gods knowledge of future plans are exclusive to the event of our actions.

They will come to pass, but not by his predestination, but by our choices. His knowledge is exclusive to the matter

Gods predestination only comes to pass in those who have totally subjected themselves to his will and action(choosing to do so).

Gods knowledge of the future does not mean he has predestinated every failure's failure, it actually establishes the fact that his predestination can in fact be ignored because of our freewill.

obadiah777: the truth will set you free brother. you are in bondage. you are mentally shackled. i am trying to remove the shackles for you

lol. This is ironic.

obadiah777: you cant handle the truth ruth

I believe its you and wiegraf who might not be able to handle the truth.

wiegraf: Edit it again, I suggest

please why do you assume freewill and omniscience are juxtaposed in the sense you mean it?(I take it you mean they are entwined?)

wiegraf: I'm on mobile ATM, a chore to quote. But this is, well, piss poor and you've not added anything new.

For one, when was this about the freewill/omniscience conundrum. I'll get a PC and elaborate, though it's already been said.

Unlike Obadiah you really aren't stating anything new...

what do you want me to say? That freewill negates Gods omniscience? That God is evil for doing such?

I know God better than that.

Obadiah is trying to confuse you(or confuse himself?) with misinterpretation of the bible:

Amos 3:6 Does the war trumpet sound in a city without making the people afraid? Does disaster strike a city unless the LORD sends it?
(GNT)

Isaiah 45:7  I create both light and darkness;
I bring both blessing and disaster.
I, the LORD, do all these things.

The KJV was a little shady. Don't let it confuse you.

wiegraf: Do look up the meaning of freewill, and for bonus points juxtapose that with omnixx, but let's disregard that.

So you understand freewill comes packed with certain properties, yes? Inescapable, logical truths that god is subject to, yes? Foot. God has to enforce laws is what you're saying.

One of these truths is that so long as there is freewill, there will be 'evil'. God full well knows this before he puts the lion in that jungle. So why does he come back and blames the lion for it? For doing what lions do, what he programmed? Did Antone force him to?

freewill and omniwhatever are not juxtaposed(edit: in the way you mean it). Why are you assuming that they are?

wiegraf: This is more sensible than standard xtian interpretations. He would still be a dramatic, sadistic douche mind you, bit at least this is more logical.

That said, again, the standard xtian strongly disagrees with you

the reasonable this is more acceptable to you is because you'll obviously be more comfortable with a lie than with the truth of the matter.