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gohf:You are obviously not a good Bible student. Daniels vision (or dream) like Joseph’s, Isaiah’s, Ezekiel’s and Johns all use animal or some bizarre looking creatures to represent things. 7 cows represents seven years in Joseph’s case. It’s noteworthy however, that the creatures in Daniel, Ezekiel and Johns visions are similar. They represents things that will happen in the last days. The creatures, things and event in this visions represents things and ideas. The Angel explained to Daniel that the animals are kingdoms (like I explained the creature at Revelation to that it represents political powers of the earth). The Angel didn’t explain the fire from Gods throne. However, putting Bible together one will come to the conclusion that the fire represents destructive power of God to bring judgement to erring nations and power, both physical and spiritual. The fire coming out of the throne like the lake of fire in Revelation is used to pass judgement. It’s used to destroy and bring to nonexistence. “Our God will come and cannot remain silent. Before him is a consuming fire, And a great storm rages all around him.” Psalm 50:3. Our God will come and cannot remain silent. Before him is a consuming fire, And a great storm rages all around him. Fire goes before him And consumes his adversaries on every side. Psalm 97:3. This fire represents the destructive ability of God and his capability to render judgement. I will give you an example from that same passage in Daniel. The four beast represents four world powers that will still come after Daniel. We have had Babylon, Greece, Rome and now we are in the last one -Anglo-Saxon- power. It will soon get divided into several powers. We are entering that phase of multipolar world where China is coming up, India too, Russia and several others. These other powers that have gone were burned by the fire. They were made to cease to exist. But if you are a good student of history, you will know that Babylon, Rome, and Greece where in no time burned by a big inferno that destroyed them and they are not in any hell. But they have met there end. They have been consumed by the fire from God. The serving political powers today represented by the beast, the false prophet, Devil himself, sinners, grave and death will soon be destroyed as it where by this fire of God [or from God]. They will all go into non-existence |
gohf:Maybe I don’t know the meaning of metaphor. Because I don’t understand this fuss. Ok, what I mean all the while is that the lake of fire is not a literal burning fire, it’s an analogy to represent things coming to an end- being put out of existence. Bad people, the beast, Satan, death, grave all get thrown into this FIGURATIVE lake of fire, which means SECOND DEATH. So if you will continue making fuss and keep saying the lake is a literal fire then fare there well bro. I don try for you. If your head block others are not that irredeemable. |
gohf:It’s important for you to know that Christians have some fundamental general assumptions about the meaning of things, but if you understand the Bible really, you will know that these popular assumptions might be wrong. The Bible prophesied that in our days, deceivers will come out deceiving MANY. It advised that he that think he stands should do a reassessment. You have to have the calmness and condition of mind to listen to things that are radically different from what you have known. *First the beast there is not even a literal beast. It’s an imaginary animal that is used to describe the Worldwide political system. It rules over “every tribe and people and tongue and nation,” so it is greater than a single national government. This shows how the political set up of the world, it’s leaders were used to do Satans bidding. So you see that in consistence with the metaphoric value of Revelation, the wild beast isn’t just a literal entity, but an animal that symbolizes a system. *The false prophet too, isn't just an individual, but it represents individuals and organizations that skillfully teach people things that take them away from God or make them question God. The theory of evolution and its proponents that many nations of the world have embraced to explain the existence and essence of things may fall into this category. *you see how the “sky and earth” fled before the great throne. Does earth have leg to run? Does sky have wings to fly away? Again in that Revelation 20:9-15; “death and grave” were thrown into the lake of. Can death and grace be handled? Isn’t this a pointer to the fact that many of thing are allegorical? How do you burn grave and death in a literal lake of fire? What’s this lake of fire? *There was an actual lake of fire that sulfur was added to constantly in the time of Christ and the Apostles. There was a valley just outside the big walls of Jerusalem. It was a huge dump site. Rubbish and sometimes criminals that have been executed that people deem not to deserve burial were thrown in to it to dispose off them. There was a fire that constantly burn at this site because sulfur was constantly poured on it. The name of this lake is Gehenna. Sometimes when Jesus said things like “somebody that hate his brother will be throne into “hell”, the word the Bible translators of the Bible translate as hell is Gehenna. It’s that burning lake (valley) Jesus was using to describe the destruction such person will face. Jesus explicitly use Gehenna. In this lake too, worms feast on the decomposing body. You can imagine the horror of the face. There apparently are some bodies that flies perch on and lay there maggots on. The Bible describe this maggots that they never die, that can mean you will always find them slithering on the decomposing corpse. **what’s more? Revelation 21:8; explains what this lake of fire represent. I will quote your version. “their doom is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. THIS IS THE SECOND DEATH." The lake represents the second death, which is the permanent death, a death without hope of resurrection. Permanent destruction and forfeiture of the gift of God that is eternal life (or forever existence). That is why death and grave too can be said to be thrown into this lake, because around that time that sinners are thrown into that figurative fire and made to cease to exist, death too will be no more. Nobody will die again and the use of graves will go extinct. Yes, somebody can use USA and 9ja as two different things to show 2 contrasting realties. There can be a proverb in a place were somebody say things like “eh, David, we wey support APC na for America we dey live oh, the government are showing us a lot of favor, while you guys that are rebellious to Tinubu are the one living in 9ja. You are being deprived of several subsidies the government offers ( this is just an example you know, it’s not the exact description of things in Nigeria). |
Dtruthspeaker:My brother, no be your post I dey look for for nairakand especially when I noticed is error filled. Nobody in Nigeria is taking a mark yet |
gohf:NIV too doesn’t translate a lot of places well. I can show you three more errors in NIV and I am sure you take time to verify things that are new to you. Did NIV even use anything like signify ? It just went on and say “made it known”. I can show you three more errors, one is even just a position of punctuation mark in a sentence. Yes, such subtle insignificant things can change the whole meaning of a message. I don’t want to do it now as it will open more fronts. This one we are dealing with is already overwhelming. Do I am going to focus on replying to that your long comment |
gohf:Well, I am not writing a thesis. I said things there, maybe I should say people and idea abi? Just wait small let me find time to reply to that your long comment. |
gohf:The message according to the Bible were given to him in signs or symbols. This must first be clear. You at a point alleged there was no “signify” , symbolized or signs. You quoted from a translation that omitted those things entirely. You mocked. I however showed you. So it’s not as if it’s only “fire” you have been talking about. Still hold a moment let me reply that your Long comment. |
gohf:What are you so dishonest? Is it only sinners that were burnt there? Didn’t it say death? Is death a material thing? Just wait a moment let me reply to that your long comment. |
Dtruthspeaker:Na you make the post. I haven’t seen your post before and what is happening now isn’t the same has what is described in revelation. No one is taken a literal 666 mark anywhere yet |
gohf:You have some translations use symbolized, you have another use signs and you just interpret’signify’ like that? Again you disregard the fact that the whole book now went ahead to support ‘symbolized’ by using things like lamb, fire, animals, eyes in the whole body, voices from a chair, mark of the beast, 7headed lion, some animal forms that is not in existence way more than any other Bible books to pass messages and give graphic meaning to things? Doesn’t what the book contain proof “symbolized “ in the introductory verse of verse 1, accurate? |
gohf:Metaphor a figure of speech in which a word or phrase is applied to an object or action to which it is not literally applicable. "when we speak of gene maps and gene mapping, we use a cartographic metaphor" synonyms: figure of speech, figurative expression, image, trope, ALLEGORY, PARABLE, ANALOGY, comparison, SYMBOL. I may stop chatting with you because it appears you are very insincere. I have showed you the real wording of revelation 1:1, you didn’t talk despite my effort bringing them up. You only come with that your stupid laughing emoji. The good thing is that you are not the only one seeing our conversation, there are some sincere people and I am sure a light as been ignited in them. Now this is another example of a metaphor; He was a black hole, pulling everyone’s energy into his orbit. This means the guy has a strong character that pulls everybody to him. So now if I must follow your irritating vexing logic, I can’t use “pull” again because “pull” have already been used in the metaphor? Fire we know destroy things. Lake of fire in revelation was aptly used to show how those things and ideas- sinners, Devil and Death will be destroyed. |
Dtruthspeaker:Why are you being smart by half? Revelation 13:17 and that nobody can buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name. How is the event here same as what is happening in Nigeria now? Where are they collecting the mark before they buy things in Oshodi market? |
gohf:Calm now. I have replied you Response is a whole work. It takes time sometimes |
gohf:For total destruction of death, sinners and Satan. Death is cast in it you remember? Is death a material thing. Go and check your previous question about Revelation 1:1. I have given a detailed reply |
gohf:Ok good. You have reach the stage I was baiting you to reach. I appreciate you take out time to confirm things. My brother though, if you are a Christian and you love God and take your salvation very important, you must learn to read and read and make researches. Devil since a long time ago has been fighting either to entirely destroy the Bible or muddle it up. Our translators of the several many English versions we have either didn’t do a good job (in fact KJV is a translation from a translation) or some were mischievous and render the translation to subtly conform to their theology. That part of the Bible like many other part isn’t properly translated in many English version. Now I will show you three version. That try as much as possible to offer a literal ‘word-for-words’ translation. You can go online to check Bible hub. Curiously too, you will need to go way down to see translation that offer this (this is for you to see that the fight against Gods word and it’s pure message is real). REVELATION 1:1 Literal Standard Version A revelation of Jesus Christ that God gave to Him to show to His servants what things must quickly come to pass; and He SIGNIFIED [it], having sent through His messenger to His servant John. Aramaic Bible in Plain English The Revelation of Yeshua The Messiah, which God gave to him, to show his Servants what had been given to soon occur, and he SYMBOLIZED it when he sent by his Angel to his Servant Yohannan. The New World Translation A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent his angel and presented it in SIGNS through him to his slave John. Hope to hear from you again |
Dtruthspeaker:Ok, I don’t even know what you are saying again. You have taken me to several places today. Only you |
gohf:But how many times do I have to answer you? I have told you that Revelation is a book of metaphor, it said it itself. In verse 1 ( the introductory verse) it said the things in it are given as SYMBOLS showing things that must happen in the future. That’s why you have Jesus represented has a lamb at some place. Was Jesus ever turned into Lamb? No! It’s a metaphor to represent his sacrificial value. Now in that same lake of fire, Death was thrown in there? Is death a material thing you can lay hold of ? No! The lake is a metaphor that shows the destruction of not only death, but Satan and sinners too. |
MaxInDHouse:Hmm. Nawa |
gohf:You must check yourself if you are really teachable. So because a word is in Greek now it can’t be a metaphor? Isn’t breeze there in that proverbs too a word in a language? And I went further to tell you that in that book of Revelation 1:1, it says things in it are given as symbols,( signs) to show what must happen in the future. That’s why you have at some point, Jesus represented by Lamb and some elders having animal future. Is Jesus ever in a lamb form? Isn’t that metaphor to represent his sacrificial value? Una go talk come put that Yeye laughing emoji without knowing that the joke is really on you people |
MaxInDHouse:Thank you jo Na. Just love make me dey answer him still |
gohf:I think I just answered you? The English term of “breeze” in the proverbs “breeze go blow and fowl yansh go open” is not talking about a literal breeze, but it’s a metaphor that means somethings will come to light. Though breeze in the proverbs is a English wird |
gohf:Let me answer. In the proverbs ; “breeze go blow and the fowl yansh will open”, is the breeze a literal breeze? Now to help further. In the introductory verse of revelation, the very first verse, verse 1, it said plsinly that the messages there are given in signs-that is, they symbolize things that are to come. |
DeepSight:I am honest with you, but then I said it’s in part. But see here again in Genesis around the time of Abraham, see what God said then. Note this is about 300 years before the crusade to take over those lands. “But they will return here in the fourth generation, because the error of the Amʹor·ites has not yet reached its full measure.” Genesis 15:16. |
gohf:Ask your question very well please. Maybe you have to check what you typed again |
Dtruthspeaker:You don’t know what metaphor means? In Yoruba language for example, somebody might tell you, “don’t worry, continue you bad behavior of stealing, soon the breeze will blow and the bosom of the hen will be opened”. That’s a metaphor that telling you that; *in the future your bad duds will be opened *there will be no breeze or any gen. It’s just saying that symbolizes making your secrets come to light. So the fire in revelation is metaphorical, pointing to when in the future, bad people, the devil and death will be made to cease to exist. Must I really teach you like this… like you are some kindergarten kid? |
DeepSight:Because of the love I have for you, I may yet continue this conversation. The taken over of those land was in part because of the wicked practices, which included child sacrifices, of its inhabitants. “Do not say in your heart when Yahweh your God drives them away from before you, ‘It was because of my own righteousness that Yahweh has brought me in to take possession of this land.’Rather, it is because of the wickedness of these nations that Yahweh is driving them away from before you.” Deuteronomy 9:4. “You must not do this to Yahweh your God, because they do for their gods every detestable thing that Yahweh hates, even burning their sons and their daughters in the fire to their gods.” Deuteronomy 12:31. |
Dtruthspeaker:You clearly clearly clearly have a comprehension issue nawaaaa I have been saying this *no fire *what is said there will happen in the future *what will happen in the future is making sinners and death cease to exist. * AGAIN, the lake of fire is no literal fire but metaphor for future permanent destruction of sinners, Devil and death Whats the contradiction here mister? |
DeepSight:I can help you with the secular sources just like I did with the other evidence I have given you. But then, I see clearly your sentiments, it has deeply taken root. I really want to help at re-educating you, but then it will take a lot of time and effort. Philistines again my man didn’t come from Africa. They are most likely Europeans from eastern europes. There forebears however appeared to build a large empire that straddled the coast of Egypt ad Palestine. Those little Children inside the jar where sacrificed. It’s a popular vile custom in that area. And dating ancient artifacts and things is a technology that is quite precise now, besides, Jericho though an ancient city wasn’t always inhabited, so people have a rough idea of when whatever incident could have happened. I do not know how you got to develop this hatred against Yahweh. I can help reintroduce him to you.. his power and what he has done in the past that is beyond doubt |
Chidolalar:the earth is made for man. The Bible teaches about paradise restoration. The heaven is Gods and his righteous spirits abode. Forgiveness of sin and gift of eternal life is Gods to give |
DeepSight:Please check the attached image again. Abraham didn’t sacrifice Isaac and you know it. When you start being up half cooked evidence to support your sentiments, then you really have to do an introspect. Yahweh allowed his son to be killed. And I tell you again that he has immense power to reward this kind of service. That son is alive now . He was seen by more than 500 people after his death. Secular sources attest this too
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DeepSight:This means you do not read carefully. Check the second or third image I attached if you won’t see information about Jericho’s there. Please check that up first, then show me how Yahweh loves child sacrifices? |
Dtruthspeaker:I am telling you mister, that there is no literal burning. Revelation tells about coming event using metaphors. The metaphoric burning of sinners and ‘death’ is a future event telling of how sinners and death will be destroyed and cease to exist. How is it my message that had been this consistent is not clear to you? Let me reiterate again. The throwing or casting into the lake of fire isn’t literal, it’s in the future yes, and it symbolizes the future permanent destruction of sinners and death |
