₦airaland Forum

hopefulLandlord:
Eight "eye-witnesses" say they saw and handled the golden plates that Joseph Smith translated into the Book of Mormon. That history is far more recent than Jesus' four witnesses who (supposedly) wrote it decades after the fact and you also know nothing about them, so using your logic the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints wins on eye-witness numbers and proximity of time. I guess you'll convert to Mormonism now?

Calendar year? hahahaha

Smith actually obtained testimonies from 11 men who said they had seen the golden plates not 8 as you quoted above. But I ask, how does that in the least compare with the lord Jesus whom God began to speak about right from Genesis 3:15 many 1000s of years before he was born and all through the ages by the mouth of prophets of all ages who received inspiration to prophecy what they did not fully grasp at the time?

Notice also that just before Jesus came, John had been testifying about him without knowing his identity until he saw the sign. Don't forget, John's had encountered an angel before John's birth so much so that even the people of his day could not take his testimony for granted.

Once Jesus arrived, he began to declare that he is the son of God but many including his brothers did not believe him until his death when even a soldier standing declared that "truly, this was the son of God" when he saw all the signs that followed his death.

Finally, when he resurrected, he revealed himself to Peter, the twelve, and to more than 500 brothers at the same time most of whom were still living at the time. If you can believe that you are your father's child on the testimony of your mother but can't believing the fact of Jesus resurrection in the face of all the historical evidences, then I clearly can't help you.

hopefulLandlord:
what are your evidences for resurrection?

Neither you or me were born 2000 years ago so we must make do with the testimony of those who were and saw him. His disciples notable amongst whom was Thomas, Acts 1:2-4 the empty tomb, the calendar year are sufficient evidences of the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus.

walepackage:
@traeces.What you posted wasint explaining the above topic he ask.Pls,without much digressing expantiate and elaborate the 'doctrine of trinity'.I aint talking about 'conscience' here,whic determines what is right or wrong, cos its an inherent factor in all man.Thou,it can be nurtured or murder depending on the circumstance.

I posted severally on this thread so you may need quote me. About trinity, what we know is 3 God in 1 & 1 in 3. That is how much the human mind can comprehend and you must agree that there is so much even in the physical world that we do not and may never understand.

walepackage:
'Religion' the opium of the masses,the heart of the heartless and the soul of the souless.@op,I bet you,no pastor/Reverend father that can explained or eloborate constructively on the above topic.They rather called it profane.

I know you just hurried to make your assertion without taking the time to read the responses. Here is an earlier response:


Three quick issues;
First, your argument seeks to incriminate God for his divinity which gave God the right to institute order and decide right and wrong. If you a mere creature can decide for yourself right and wrong, why shouldn't God? It is only divine order that sin's wages is death and the same way that all your protest against your teacher did not change anything when he awarded you zero marks for saying 1+0=10 is the same way your protest against God won't amount to anything in the judgement if today you choose death instead of life.

Secondly, God did not send his son to die in order to save you from what he will do to you because of sin. He sent Jesus to die in order to save you from what the devil already did to you when he made your father Adam fall in the garden. He is only a consequence of the fall so it is strange that the devil is not anywhere in your argument.

Thirdly, When you imagine that the sun which is only an average-sized star can 'contain' one million 'earths' and that there are many billions of stars in our galaxy (the milky way galaxy) alone and that their are billions of galaxies containing billions upon billions of stars in the known physical universe alone, you will realize that the creator is not your mate and you are never ever going to be able to fully understand him. What he has revealed however is enough to take us to heaven.

zainmaxwell:
bro if I may ask is Jesus a Christian?

The answer to your question is simple; Is water watery? If yes, then Jesus is a christian. If no then you know you have some explaining to do.

mediocre:
The problem with most religious people in Nigeria is ignorance. Pure undiluted ignorance in its raw form. You think there are only two religions in the world? If islam is not the true one, then Christianity must be? Looool! There are over 5000 religions in the world and the adherents of those religions believe their own religion is the true one, and see adherents of other religions as doomed and hell-bound. Even within christianity, there's conflict between the orthodox and pentecostal churches, oh did i mention our good old jehovah's witnesses ... and they all think the other person will end up in hell. Perhaps there are many hells, or y'all are just delusional

In my experience, I have found people who are quick to refer to others as ignorant as the more ignorant.
Now if I wrote about my findings on Islam in explaining why I am not a Muslim to a Muslim, what makes you to think I have not carried out my research on other religions.
It is for instance always a pleasure for me to talk with Jehovah's witnesses as I see holes everywhere in their doctrine. Recently I was busy with work and one Jehovah's witness insisted on sharing with me about the kingdom of God. I asked him a simple question; Are you born again? he did not want to answer that but when I insisted, he said no and I put it to him, why then can you talk to me about the kingdom of God when the bible says "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God"? And you could read confusion on his face as he could not provide an answer.
So in addition to resurrection of Jesus, the witness of the bible and the holy spirit in my heart which are sufficient evidences of the truth of Christianity, I have carried out my research on other religions.

Realitycheck007:
Note, We mere creatures couldnt have been able to differentiate between right and wrong if it wasnt for God..God himself gave us the option, Why put the apple in the garden in the first place? remember his Omnipresence, So if by your logic that means he knows we gonna sin, IF A TEACHER presents a PHD question to a primary 5 student, 101% the student going to fail and the teacher knows it and yet u say the teacher punishing the student is right because the student didnt use his IQ by doing expo.... God gave us an option to follow then why did he say If we dont do diz, I will do diz to u...

Even though, I 100% agree that a teacher should not give a student an examination that is beyond the student's capacity, you will also agree that the teacher prepares the syllable or curriculum not the student.
Seriously, how much do you know to know that the 'examination' God gave to Adam was above his capacity? Did the serpent force him? God had given him a will and he exercised his will!
Now if you ask me WHY God did this or did not do that in the sense of questioning God's sovereignty which I wholehearted submit to and that without apologies, I won't be able to provide you and answer but we can carry on any other discussion on the bible.

zainmaxwell:
bro if na for the God matter leave that one nobody will ever answer that all dey will say is a mystery

There is no sincere question about God or man that the bible does not answer. You may not have found it but you can be sure it is there.

Check my answer above

Mariinee:
What's my belief? Lol.
That there's only one God and he wasn't begotten and neither has he begotten i.e he has no relatives whatsoever. He has no son and he has no parent. And no one must be associated with him in worship.

I would probably have shared your belief if not for prophet Muhammad's uncertainty about the eternal destiny of both his own spirit and that of his followers according to S 46:9 "...NOR DO I KNOW WHAT WILL BE DONE WITH ME OR WITH YOU..." So basically, Islam is based upon only his claims and/or inspirations. That I boldly declare is not enough both in law or everyday life as anybody can claim anything. The validity of any claim should be based on evidence not sentiments.
Compare that with Christianity where God began a relationship with the first man Adam before the fall. He found men to yet walk with in Enoch, Job, Noah, Abraham down till Jesus and beyond after the fall. All these men lived in different generations yet bore an agreeable message upon which Christianity is built.
And finally when Jesus stepped into the scene;
It was in fulfilment of several prophecies 1000s of years before he was born.
He had a forerunner in John the baptist who bore testimony about him.
The heaven's declared to the hearing of several people that "this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased, hear him".
And finally when he died, he rose again the 3rd day and is seated at the right hand of God the father. This is a historical fact which you assent to every time you write dates say 4th January, 2018. You are simply saying it has been 2018 years since Jesus resurrected.
This is why I believe in Jesus and not any other.

Realitycheck007:
Me and my staffs are having a little argument, cause of the pix i brought to them this morning to explain.. Many people can't Say a word while others are contradicting each other so i decided to bring it up here, I know this isn't the right thread but For the reason this Section has the most viewers and active users... Let's do this, NOTE am a Christian that loves getting new idea of my Belief, Either Wrong or right.. Can someone explain this for me

Cc. Rocktation, farano, lalasticlala, mynd44 )

Three quick issues;
First, your argument seeks to incriminate God for his divinity which gave God the right to institute order and decide right and wrong. If you a mere creature can decide for yourself right and wrong, why shouldn't God? It is only divine order that sin's wages is death and the same way that all your protest against your teacher did not change anything when he awarded you zero marks for saying 1+0=10 is the same way your protest against God won't amount to anything in the judgement if today you choose death instead of life.

Secondly, God did not send his son to die in order to save you from what he will do to you because of sin. He sent Jesus to die in order to save you from what the devil already did to you when he made your father Adam fall in the garden. He is only a consequence of the fall so it is strange that the devil is not anywhere in your argument.

Thirdly, When you imagine that the sun which is only an average-sized star can 'contain' one million 'earths' and that there are many billions of stars in our galaxy (the milky way galaxy) alone and that their are billions of galaxies containing billions upon billions of stars in the known physical universe alone, you will realize that the creator is not your mate and you are never ever going to be able to fully understand him. What he has revealed however is enough to take us to heaven.

Peacefullove:
Does you mean Jesus lied when he came years later and said No MAN has ascended to heaven ? tell me



Which place and where was it mentioned for inside bible ?



Are you making up the bolded ? because I didn't see such in that verse u mentioned o.

besides, If it took Jesus 40 days after his been ressurected to go to heaven, where are those people during that time ?



yeah, the parts has been signified

In answer to your question regarding where men of God who died before the death of Jesus went, Jesus alluded to a place he called Abraham's bosom where a CERTAIN beggar named Lazarus was carried by angels to after he died. The bible describes the place as a place of comfort. (Luke 16:20-25).

That was where men of God who died before the death and resurrection of Jesus most probably went.

jean1128:
this is the problem with Christianity, one verse says very man would be judged by works,the other says its not by works but by grace,nawooo

I have come to realize that anything that seems contradictory in all of the bible only appears so to the man looking at it from afar. On the issue you raised, the bible is unequivocally clear. Let me itemize my points for clarity;

1) Salvation is by faith in the son of God. In other words, like that thief that was crucified with Christ, anyone who gets to believe on his deathbed will make heaven on the basis of his faith.-Jn 3:16, ROM 10

2) Faith is related to works as faith can only be expressed in good deeds. "...How can you show me your faith if you don't have good deeds?...Can't you see that faith without good deeds is useless?" James 2:18,20 NLT. So the faith of someone who "accepts christ" but continues to live a life of sin is useless. Christians are not saved to live anyhow but to live godly lives BY THE GRACE OF GOD- Titus 2:11

3) So Rev 22:12 agrees with several other scriptures in making it clear that while an angel is not going to come down to prevent you from fornicating or stealing or lying, you will be judged in accordance with what you do not just your verbal profession of faith. That will be your visa of course, but we all know that it is not enough for you to get a visa to the USA for example, you are going to have to buy your plane ticket, get on the plane and travel in order to get to the USA. We Christians are also required to work out our salvation with fear and trembling-Phil 2:12

jean1128:
Lol am no Christian, just sayin

My dear, why in the world are you not a Christian? Jesus will not leave his throne and come and die just so you could become a Christian if the need was not acute. I invite you to cease from merely existing and live life for Jesus came that we might have life and have it to the full. (Jn 10:10)

hadow:
to start with i don't think Elijah's name should be written because he surely ascended into heaven.

The answer to your question is that they were kept in a place of wait till Jesus died. Let's look at Matthew CH 27:51-53 these verses explain explicitly what happened so it is then made easy to connote that when he died he conquered death and hell so those who were there and were willing to accept him were the ones who appeared to their relatives and thus ascend to heaven.

pls signify if it isn't clear enough. Shalom

I did not know this until now. I have been prompted to ask this question publicly so it can be trashed publicly and keep people from being misinformed.

In addition to this answer, the bible says in Hebrews 11:2 "It was by their faith that people of ancient times won God's approval." GNT

So even though Jesus had not died in the old testament. The terms of the covenant or agreement between God and man were in place and as many as believed had appended their signature so to speak to the agreement. So what remained for them was God's signature ( the blood of Jesus).

So once Jesus died, it fully executed the new covenant and gave all who died in faith before the death and resurrection of Jesus access to God's throne.

CC: My unfortunate friend, @daddyfreeze of #freethesheeples movement.

mikejj:
and what scripture says heaven is for christians.

John 3:3 which says "Unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." and several others. If in any case you think otherwise, what are your thoughts?

Job, Abraham, Isaac, Moses, David, Elijah, Elisha, down till Jesus were not Christians so if heaven is for only Christians, where will these lot spend eternity?
Please thoughts should be Bible-based

I hope no one commits the destiny of his soul to someone as hopelessly confused as my unfortunate friend- freeze of the #freethesheeples movement. He does not get to determine who makes heaven or who does not. A man came to Jesus in John 3 and asked, Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life, the answer Jesus gave was: "Except a man be born again, he cannot inherit the kingdom of God."
Who is freeze or anybody for that matter to say something will happen that Jesus clearly says CANNOT happen? In any case, you cannot even love the way Jesus meant (which is clearly evident in 1 cor 13) unless your life is lived under the control of the holy ghost and that cannot happen unless you are born again.
Hear everyone, there is no salvation anywhere outside Jesus. Only Jesus who died, was buried and resurrected the 3rd day can save.

In other words, Osibanjo is saying NNPC is empowered to spend Nigeria's monies illegally as every money expended outside what is provided for in the senate approved budget is an illegal expenditure.

My wife bought a pair of boots for her 2-year old small friend who is our neighbour's daughter when we were travelling last December. This December, the small girl brought my wife the boots requesting my wife to sell them and use the money to buy her another pair since this one no longer sizes her.

CaptainJeffry:
Reactor Omokri, why not seek and get information on the issue before reacting.

If Innoson owes a bank, he has to pay them back or atleast agree to pay back after all the bank is doing its own business. You can't hold one down while getting up yourself.

I have an uncle who got a huge loan from one of the defunct banks and never paid back. An area manager of that bank was fired and later died of heart attack in the process.

I don't mix business with sentiments.

You do not have the facts either. Innoson has gotten judgement severally against GTB up to the court of appeal. So the question now is not who owes who but how much GTB owes Innoson

I think it has gone beyond settling out of court. You can't call my bluff up to the supreme court and then come to me cap in hand for amicable resolution when I have gotten an out-of-this-world judgement against you.
My only advice to GTB is for them to reorganize her legal department to forestall a reoccurrence.

onatisi:
by the time this case is over
gtb will be in serious financial mess
paying over 8 billion naira wont be an easy task for them

GTB declared 125.58 billion naira profit for the qtr ended 30th Sept, 2017. The bank has a total asset base of 3.21 trillion against total liabilities of 2.63 trillion naira so the amount they are to pay to Innoson is change. Moreover, I heard Innoson on TVC where he said he is open to been paid in GTB bank shares. So it is all good my friend.
Bank should learn not arbitrarily deduct monies from our accounts just because they can!

Osucoward:
Chestbeater
Innosent will pay his debts

My dear, I am not IBO but I am happy with what Innoson did and for your info, the question is not who is owing who but how much are we (GTB) owing you (INNOSON)!

I take it that GTBank's legal dept needs an overhaul. How can the bank not get legal advice that would lead to the avoidance of litigations where she lost at every step of the way.
Now the bank is having to pay several billions instead of the 500 plus million @ 22% which made sense.
All hail INNOSON. Try IBO man @ your own risk!

PastorAIO:
Jesus wouldn't have Tithed. But you do.

Yes because Jesus clearly instructs me not to neglect tithing on the excuse of weightier matters of the law (matt 23:23)

I can very well relate with your story as it was my experience growing up as a child. I broke free from the cycle when I came to God in sincerity and faith penitently requiring his help. I will share a few points with you.
First, repentance must be sincere and in faith in what the lord Jesus did.
Second note: that you fell into sin does not invalidate your being born again. Jesus teaching us to pray said,"...forgive us our trespasses..." which means the possibility to fall into sin is not just there, it is provided for. However making a habit of sinning puts a big question mark on the born again claim according to 1st John.
Third, your new life is spiritual and can only be sustained by the word of God. Therefore;
a) Read the bible voraciously
b) Listen to the word of God preached (not money or how to be a success) by people whose lives are exemplery
c) Read good christian books
d) Cultivate Jesus' habit by waking up a great while before the morning to pray everyday. Keep a journal of your devotions. Use devotionals (there are many online- I use our daily bread)
e) Attend a church that believes, preaches and practices the bible
f) I think this is the most important, be discipled! That was what Jesus came to make and those were the people who were 1st called Christians.
May God help your spirit. Amen

PastorAIO:
I bet you lie and steal too. Especially when you need to make up your tithe payments.

I am wondering how you arrived at this assumption. Will Jesus lie or steal to make up his tithe? If not, why should I?

Goshen360:
Let's show you some laws and you tell us if you keep them. You ready?

Bring it on!
I hope you read "as completed and put together by the life and teachings of Christ"
In other words, I strive in every situation to think, say and do what Jesus would think, say and do were he to be in the situation.

PastorAIO:
You missed my question (in spite of the fact that I put it in bold font). Do you keep Sabbath and kosher laws?

I keep the law of God as "completed and put together"-matt 5:17 (MSG) by the life and teachings of the lord Jesus.

PastorAIO:
Just because of Tithe you folk are ready to contradict everything that you've said previously. What happened to the New Covenant vs Old Covenant brouhaha that you guys liked to raise?

You are not willing to claim Grace anymore since that will chop inside your tithe money. O ma se o!!!

So I take it that you are a strict sabbath observer. When I first heard this passage, Matthew 5:18, it was from Seventh Day adventists who use it to support their adherence to Kosher laws and strict torah observance.

Mister Man, unless you are a strict Torah observer I can only conclude that your reason for quoting Matt 5:18 is just to exclusively defend your unchristian practice of tithing.

It is so unfortunate that anyone will allow his or her faith to be guided by "what you guys have said" rather than by what the scriptures say.
Grace does not equate lawlessness. On the contrary grace implies empowerment to keep God's law (Titus 2:11). So if anyone for claims that because he or she is under grace and not under the law so is free from the law of God, the above scriptures clearly show that such a one is anything but a Christian.
In essence, we don't get to choose what portion of the bible applies to us and what portion does not. We follow Jesus, we copy his life and we obey his instructions since he is the only one in all of creation of whom it is written: "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased, hear him" and he it is that has commanded us not to Neglect tithes (Matt 23:23)

Matthew 5:17-20The Message (MSG)

Completing God’s Law

17-18 “Don’t suppose for a minute that I have come to demolish the Scriptures—either God’s Law or the Prophets. I’m not here to demolish but to complete. I am going to put it all together, pull it all together in a vast panorama. God’s Law is more real and lasting than the stars in the sky and the ground at your feet. Long after stars burn out and earth wears out, God’s Law will be alive and working.

19-20 “Trivialize even the smallest item in God’s Law and you will only have trivialized yourself. But take it seriously, show the way for others, and you will find honor in the kingdom. Unless you do far better than the Pharisees in the matters of right living, you won’t know the first thing about entering the kingdom.

The Message (MSG)

Romans 3:31Living Bible (TLB)

31 Well then, if we are saved by faith, does this mean that we no longer need obey God’s laws? Just the opposite! In fact, only when we trust Jesus can we truly obey him.

Living Bible (TLB)

Scriptural Texts: Matt 5:17-20(MSG) ROM 3:31(TLB) Mal 3:10

As one who has carefully followed the #freethesheeples debate on tithing in a bid to challenge my theology and also understand the viewpoints of #freethesheple movement founded by @daddyfreeze , I find that the whole argument on #tithes is built on this one notion that, WE LIVE UNDER GRACE AND NOT UNDER THE LAW and what that means for a great majority of members of the movement is that we can choose what portions of the bible applies to us and what portions do not apply.
However, Jesus through whom we enter into the mercy and grace of God held a totally different view. His word says, "Don't assume for a minute that I have come to demolish the scriptures - either God's law or the prophets...God's word is more real and lasting than the stars in the sky and the ground at your feet...trivialize even the smallest item in God's law and you will only have trivialized yourself...Unless you do far better than the Pharisees in the matters of right living, you won't know the first thing about entering the kingdom of God."
There are still stars in the sky and there is still ground at your feet so why will you trivialize sections of God's word?
So you see, the argument that Malachi 3:10, Matt 23:23 and several other such scriptures does not apply to us is fallacious. Especially that Mark 13:37 says, "What I say to you, then, I say to all..." It means if God has ever said it to anybody anywhere, God is saying it to you too.
Therefore, since faith in Christ does not in the least nullify the law of God, I am confident that everyone with regard for scriptural facts will agree that tithing is still as scriptural today as it was in Abraham's day.
#biblefacts
#Tithe
#mytestimony
#freethesheeple
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