₦airaland Forum

fergie001:
First of all, you and me have to agree that the Minister acted in an undignified manner by his posture, utterances and mannerisms.

Going further, you know what the Military is like when you take orders from your superior. I cited the Sanwo-Olu case where the CSP, a very junior officer refused a sitting elected Governor on the orders of the IGP. That Officer will have faced more wrath from his superiors if he had faltered. In the military, it is obey the last order. Don't forget, the Minister called the CDS and gave the phone to the said Lt and the CDS who had authority to immediately give the directive didn't do that.

If the Vice Admiral didn't give a contrary order, the CDS didn't either, do you think Yerima should have shifted grounds? Yerima is a man under authority, the land is not his. Whether it is legal or illegal is outside his purview, he wouldn't even know even if the documents were showed to him. That's why he told the Minister to engage his superiors but the Minister raged on.

The honest truth is this, if that land is acquired legitimately or otherwise, it's not on that officer, it's for his superiors and the Minister ought to know better. You can see support from the military apparatchik because that's how they are trained. The Minister could have sat in his office and solved this issue very professionally. If you are that officer and your superior gives a mandate, will you flout same? As Wike is, if Tinubu gives him an order, can any other Minister or human being stand in his way, absolutely not. The land doesn't belong to the said Yerima don't forget. So whether it is legal or otherwise, it's not Wike to tutor him, he doesn't know, he is just a man under authority.

I can see how you deliberately ignore my submission only to dwell on the attitude of the characters involved while leaving the main issue that bothers about rule, law and order. You are not in position to tell the public the rules and command procedures of the military, that should be left for the military spokesperson to tell the public why it's right under Nigeria constitution for a Lieutenant to prevent a serving minister from performing his duty.

Under no circumstances in a democratic setting should a Naval officer be deployed to guide a private property, is the property a national asset? Or being threatened by bandit or external threat?

Why will a retired CNS deploy a platoon of military to guide his property? If other retired generals have military guiding their properties which military personnel will remain to protect the people and fight insurgency?

Stop dwelling on moral angle of the matter as that's where emotion comes in.

We should build a strong institution that could contain individual character and excesses behaviour of the people that mount those institutions,

The CNS actions are action that destroyed our institutions, his order is illegal in a democratic setting and shouldn't be condoned.

The president has the prerogative to address the attitude of his minister if it embarrasses him, that is none of you or my business, our civil obligation is to ensure that our institutions are preserved and not polluted by military doctrine that is not allowed in a civilian rule through our objective contribution guided by the rule of law

fergie001:
What is your take?
The officer should not have stood in his way?
It's better I understand you correctly.

Leave all this mod and grammar, what is your point?
That the Officer was wrong to restrain him from going to the building?
It's best we understand so we might not be saying the same thing in a different way.

Mind you, Wike wasn't seeing the former CNS, but a Lt.

This is my position from my previous post.

That's a very good question. I have taken my time to analyze the unfortunate incident of confrontation between the Minister of FCT and an attached naval staff to a retired CNS.

Many commentators have not only erred in their submission but have allowed emotion to dictate their judgement.

There are pertinent questions that could informed a better understanding and fair judgement on the matter.

If we are to agree that a military officer only obey the order of his superior, won't it be more appropriate to define under what condition such order becomes valid.

If it is assumed that a military can break traffic rules while on mission to arrest a bandit, will such order be applicable while such officer is taking his superior child to school,?

The scenario at which the altercation occured. is best not in military formal duty and such order must be weighed to comform with the existing rules outside the military formation.

It would have been more ingenious for the officer at the point of such stalemate to have seek direct intervention of his superior to engage the minister.

Taking a unilateral decision based on order from his boss is not enough ground to remain adamant. Rather than asked Wike to call the CNS, I believe the junior office should have done that instead.

2. The CNS though is entitled to numbers of staff after retirement by law, the role of those military staff are spelt out and non include becoming a security guard to a land.under dispute.

Where the CNS requires protection over his property, the Nigeria Police should be the one to carry out such exercise and not a military personnel.

These are some of logic we should be concerned about and not allegation about Wike utterances or the Naval Lieutenant adamant

fergie001:
.You don't need to use third party, I am here.
You haven't responded me ever since. The funny thing is that even you cannot behave the Wike behaved so why endorse that character of his! Stop supporting everything because he works for a Government that is your preferred. You can still oppose a few things they do. Wike has been grabbing lands, you haven't said a thing about it.

You haven't replied the CSO who stopped Sanwo-Olu, that he was taking orders from IGP. Will you also say that CSO needs to be punished? Orders are orders and must be carried out!

There is nothing Wike can do sorry about that, he can approach the Courts or better still be civil or speak to his boss instead of the televised national kasongo yeye he got. I don't like him but maturity also entails to seek information from what you know little about, that is his problem, over-bloated ego, it could have been resolved with phone calls without all that. Badaru has sided with the officer.

We all learn everyday.

This is exactly what I pointed out earlier from your position.

This issue entails 3asoects.
1. Logic
2. Legal
3.Moral

I wonder why you ignored the logical and the legal perspective of the matter only to dwell on the moral angle.

Its logical to see through the event yesterday to be able to come up with local opinion, and when that is merged with the legal implication of the actions of all the people that are involved, it becomes clearer that the CNS has acted out of the constitution of federal Republic of Nigeria.

You dwelling on Wike's attitude and his past actions that are not legally proved means you are acting out of.logic and the law.

I am not a lawyer but was trained by one and I know some basic rudiment about law.

You are a Mod that should know I have taken opposite stand on the activities of the government with clear positions of where I stand, you claiming I support Wike's action simply because he serves in the government I support is out of place and again put paid to my position that your opinion over this matter is nothing but stem from emotion rather than logic and legal perspective

misreal:
If the chief of defence staff could not order him to stand down,then all this is a waste of time.
That officer will be promoted for obeying orders.
The armed forces will not dare release him to be punished.

That's not a new thing in Nigeria where a strike force that eliminated members of nadeco were promoted, where BH were rehabilitated and enlisted into the Army, continue celebrating illegality because you don't like Wike, it will one day get to your doorstep

fergie001:
You want my attention, now you will get it.

Listen and listen attentively, the powers of the C-in-C is not transferrable. Every Minister has administrative and policy control over his/her Ministry, but not operational control. Even the Vice President of Nigeria cannot order that soldier to stand down. Should I repeat myself?

When Jonathan was Acting President, he could not even fire the COAS because whilst you have policy control, the powers of the C-in-C is not transferrable, it vests only and only with the Commander-in-Chief. You can never have 2 C-in-Cs at any time. You dodged the thread where a CSP refused to obey Sanwo-Olu's order, I didn't see you there. You know why? He said he was under orders from the IGP.

Go and read the Armed Forces Act, only the CDS or CNS acting under the instruction of the President can order Lt. Yerima to stand down and they didn't.... You reason the matter yourself, how a CDS decided to ignore. This is because he will have to investigate a lot of things.

Even the Minister of Defence cannot order that soldier to stand down except from the orders of the President. We are talking about the operational control and command of the Army you are talking about a man who disgraced himself. Do you know how proud Lt Yerima's brass are proud of him? If Wike likes, he can go there a million times, he won't be allowed past that spot unless the President so orders ...any other question?

What about the case of Osinbajo. You have forgotten that the VP sacked the DSS boss, how is that possible if you claimed Presidential power is not transferable?

ALTERNATEID:
Well said by the senior advocate. It’s good that very knowledgeable lawyers are coming out to quickly attack the ignorant views that a lot of people have shared on the matter.

One of my biggest shock yesterday was reading the opinion of Fergie001 on the matter. I pointed out the exact sections of the constitution that the SAN referenced in this piece in my response to fergie but he quickly disappeared from the thread and failed to respond.

It’s just unfortunate that people can’t put aside their emotions when reacting to issues. How can military officers be deployed to obstruct FCT officials from carrying out their duties? How can soldiers be deployed to protect the personal construction site of a retired officer? How can a soldier block the Minister of FCT from accessing land vested in him by law?

I was shocked too by his position and I conclude it all boiled down to inability to separate emotion from logic .

I didn't press him further because I know legal luminaries will throw more light into the matter as the day go by.

I expect more fireworks in the coming days with references to judgements over similar case

Hmmmmm2024:
No sir, either party can approach the court. For a minister to demolish a property, he MUST secure a valid court order and he can only do that by approaching the court...or is there anyway of getting court order without approaching the court ? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Lagos state government for example didn't secure court order before carrying out demolition of houses that fall on Metro line in Mazamaze up to satellite town because overiding interest , it is incumbent on the owner of the property to present his documents to appreciate quarters

BigCowHornn:
Smiles

You don't understand the military. Even the current chief of naval staff was that once boy at one time. All that is needed is a phone call

Is that practice limited to Nigeria alone or that's what obtain all over military establishment across the world?

Reloadedisraelp:
lol Nigeria is half gone... This is how they create illegal bunkering all in the name of ...." I be army man" I be general for police station...🤣🤣

Just go n listen to fela kuti song " power show" u go laugh Taya 😂

Do you believe that up till today they still write " Military zone keep off" on many properties that is not own by the military establishment.

Why do we condone all these if we are preaching new Nigeria is possible?

qtx:
Look,, my friend, get sense. That so-called small boy represented the strength of the nation. Other countries fear your country because of the strength of your military. When as a minister you derogate and rubbish the uniform that gives honour to your nation, then you should be ashamed of yourself. Politicians seem to think they are gods. And for some of you who blame the young military officer, let me tell you, when it comes to the military, ORDER is ORDER even unto death. Stop showing your superb ignorance everywhere. The officer did the right thing. Wike is everywhere disturbing the peace of the country. Is he the only cabinet minister? In fact, he should take his time because the young generation of Gen Zs don't have that kind of patience. I can bet that with this Wike's nuisance everyday, BAT is begining to feel unconfortable with him already and might kick him out soon.

I hope you are not one of the people that conderm military shooting at the toll gate and blamed it on SanwoOlu. Hope you now admit that military only take order from his superior and not from the civilians

So thoughtful, you condemn soldiers killings at the toll gate, blame it on the governor of Lagos state but today you claim soldier don't take order from civilian no matter how highly placed.

Why the double standard.

Many Nigerians are not normal

aviona:
The Armed forces does not take directives from a minister, especially when a there's an order from a senior flag officer or the C-in-C himself. Kindly note this fact once and for all.

A whole French president's convoy from another country, was blocked by officers from advancing in New York city. Even after he called the host president
on phone, the visiting president had to walk on foot in the streets towards his destination, because of a standing order that must be obeyed by the officers.
Wike should have known better not to engage the officer acting on orders, but engage with the specific military authority.

I stopped reading from your first paragraph.

Why do we have Minister for Defense. Don't you know that all SC are subject to the directive of the Minister of Defense.

Some argument are not necessary if we exposed

GenderMix:
Excellent questions

1. A retired military officer does not have the authority to issue orders to active-duty soldiers. Once an officer retires, they relinquish their command authority and are no longer part of the military chain of command.
2. Is the property a military installation or a place of national interest? If not, the soldier has no business being in that property or even preventing the ministry from inspecting the property let a lone the minister who is a rep of the C-in-C
3. The minister has the authority to access the property in his official capacity, especially if he is representing the President's interests. The question then arises as to what right a retired officer has to issue orders restricting the Minister's access to the property.

The soldier and whoever gave that command should be immediately arrested. This not a joking matter

Your points are valid

Hmmmmm2024:
Preventing FCT officials from demolishing a property without a valid court order in very correct and a commendable action. It is illegal for an FCT Minister to revoke a land and then reallocate the land to another individual, the law clearly stated that the government can only revoke and reallocate a land when the land is to be used for public interest like building schools, hospitals and others. [b]Do you know two bulldozers were there yesterday ? Do you know that the issue has been lingering for long and the FCT minister has refused to approach the court ? [/b]We should not allow our political affiliations influence our sense of reasoning.

You miss the point here, it is the retired CNS that should have approached the court and not the other way round

That's a very good question. I have taken my time to analyze the unfortunate incident of confrontation between the Minister of FCT and an attached naval staff to a retired CNS.

Many commentators have not only erred in their submission but have allowed emotion to dictate their judgement.

There are pertinent questions that could informed a better understanding and fair judgement on the matter.

If we are to agree that a military officer only obey the order of his superior, won't it be more appropriate to define under what condition such order becomes valid.

If it is assumed that a military can break traffic rules while on mission to arrest a bandit, will such order be applicable while such officer is taking his superior child to school,?

The scenario at which the altercation occured. is best not in military formal duty and such order must be weighed to comform with the existing rules outside the military formation.

It would have been more ingenious for the officer at the point of such stalemate to have seek direct intervention of his superior to engage the minister.

Taking a unilateral decision based on order from his boss is not enough ground to remain adamant. Rather than asked Wike to call the CNS, I believe the junior office should have done that instead.

descarado:
This is not obi versus tinubu.
Maybe you have no military background.
There is nothing like retired military personnel.
A military personnel remai s one till death.

In case of emergency, they will be called to work immediately and they start from where they stopped.
Ask war torn countries.

You guys should stop making things hard for tinubu. Chose your fight very careful.
The military reads. Tinubu can not afford to be on their black book. You know it. No president, even the almighty America joke with their military whether retired or not. Sit this out. It is not obi and atiku or adc. Some of your people are not commenting with their main moniker and you should ask why.

Quote Nigeria law that state there is no retired military personnel . I don't know why we are so much used to abnormality in this country.

We in democracy and not military regime.

A sane mind will have attached copies of the property and approval as prove of his case, but trust Obidients they have swallowed it hook line and sinker since it is Wike their enemy

fergie001:
You live in this country and you know how high-handed persons in authority behave. Does charity not begin at home?
Are you not aware that the Minister himself has been adjudged to have used his position to give lands to his sons, brothers and allies and even dared that he won't ordinarily give them to his enemies. Are you not in this country?

Are you not in this country when he arrested an individual he perceived had leaked the documents and that individual was in cell for weeks? So nobody rates him in the military brass. Those who must approach equity must do so with clean hands. If a new Nigeria must be possible or even if our hopes will be renewed, people like that man in-charge of the FCT shouldn't be speaking up at all.

You are not speaking of an ordinary officer but a high-ranking retired Military personnel. Let him report to his boss the President. For him to call the CDS and nothing was done, he should have understood.... Like I said, if he likes let him go there a million times, he will be denied entry unless the President, through the Minister of Defense, steps in.

Let me assure you that the CNS at this point will lose that land as far as Land Use Act still exist, if the president like he can plead with the minister to allocate another one to him. But trust Wike to take the matter up

aribisala0:
This comment tell me your age if you are old enough to have lived under the military rule you would not use the expression bloody civilian
Many of you do not understand what people went through to get this democracy


Now a soldier trained at NDA for 4 years to become an officer ? Who paid for it the same BLOODY CIVILIAN that pays for his uniform and weapons that design and manufacture the weapons and treat him when he is injured

Now this same soldier wears his uniform to go and defend the private land of a retired Admiral

Is that what the 4 years of training was for?

That same soldier will never defend the land of you that is calling yourself bloody civilian
He is not using all that training in Sambisa forest or Katsina

You are like a woman celebrating the man who took her by force and gave her belle

They call it Stockholm syndrome

I agree with you, those who didn't pay the price for democracy will not appreciate the reward of sacrifice that is. Fundamental right of the citizen ad the rule of law.

It is shameful that Nigerians are wired to reason like this

fergie001:
See who speaks about hypocrisy?
Should a Minister not know the law and what to do or try to brag for nothing?
The soldier told you he is under orders, you called the CDS and nothing was done. What is the next thing to do? Call the soldier a big fool? Is that your definition of normality? That is very okay to you?

Otti or any other reasonable Governor will not disgrace himself in that manner to be exchanging words with an officer. You don't know that uniform carries the sovereignty and badge of the President? Unsurprisingly, you have said nothing about the insults he gave that officer who politely showed him what it meant to be taking orders.

The soldier told you he is under orders, it is left for you to take up the chain of command, you don't even need to come there...but he sought disgrace and he got it. When Lagbaja warned him and he ran to report to the President, why didn't he go to Court? What did the CDS tell him when he called the CDS?

He should be apologising to that Naval Officer in a very sane and non-hypocritical environment.

I can see how you convinienty left the chain of events that led to the Minister reaction.

Series of administrative action have been taken where the minister requested for documents and building approval of the land which was not provided, those are enough ground for Wike to take up the matter and get the culprits pay for their sin.

If there is any ground for the retired military to sue Wike for assault or public harassment, no one stops him.

My points is we shouldn't condone illegality because we don't like the face of who is being meted to, today it is Wike, tomorrow it can be you or me or Otti or PO.

If new Nigeria is to be possible we need to do away with military mentality and adhere to the rule of law.

BeautifulMind2:
Go and mark it on the wall that Soludo is not defecting to APC till he's through with his second tenure, APGA is rooted in Anambra state, and Soludo understand better

You will soon become a member of amala and ewedu party, our God is so wonderful

By the time Soludo decamp to APC na Minister for Information them suppose give am. The man too get salvos

I trust Wike to pursue the matter legally to its logical conclusion

Racoon:
Yes! If any of them misbehave, then let them have a taste of it. The military is the main baston of a nation defense. This kind of arrogant behavior by many official of this lawlessness govt does not portend Nigeria in good light.

Why are you and your people then crying of Nigeria army militarizing your region, are they not obeying the last order just like you are praising this young guy obeying a retired CNS

Racoon:
My dad served the army under Buhari and Babangida. The military especially Service chiefs are highly regarded in or out of service. Nyesom Wike should be careful. He may end up lightening a fuse.

Okay, such case will eventually happen to Otti or PO and we will remind you that a retired CNS has right to carryout anything he like outside the law

press9jatv:
Read what the CDS is saying concerning the conduct of a soldier in today's trending video. "Every soldier has an element of madness...
For while the right thinking man withdraws from danger, a soldier charges towards it

GENERAL OO OLUYEDE OFR

CHIEF OF DEFENCE STAFF".

The Nigerian Defence Academy does not produce docile officers. The officer's response reflects admirable composure and emotional intelligence-qualities that lie at the heart of military leadership training. His ability to remain calm, firm, and respectful under verbal provocation demonstrates discipline and professionalism.

Nevertheless, it is both unfortunate and inappropriate for a federal minister to use such language toward a serving officer of the Armed Forces. Public officials should model civility and restraint, especially when addressing those in uniform who embody national service and sacrifice".

Notwithstanding, the case is subject to my scrutiny.

I doubt the authenticity of this, until a reputable media publish it. I am not the type that swallow every junks I see on SM

Racoon:
Joe Igbokwe thinks the young military chap is one of the many agberoes bred by his demigod in Lagos here

I expect you to not descend to pettiness like this

XY23:
I see selective moralists pontificating here.

When you enthrone lawlessness, the house is also brought down by it. FYI! Anyone with military blood running through his veins will be cheering the young officer now, even though not publicly.

You have no idea the disdain young officers have for the thieving, arrogant politicians. I feel they even condone too much. Wike is busy revoking CoC and reallocating lands to his cronies.

Eye turn am today.

If you have such prove why not go to court, must we now turn Nigeria to jungle because someone has retired as CNS.

How many retired Service Chief will Nigeria continue to worship in this manner. Many of you still think we in military regime

fergie001:
The Service Chiefs will be on call now with AVM Gambo laughing at Wike. When the FCT man said former Vice Admiral, he was corrected immediately, a Vice Admiral is a Vice Admiral, nothing like former

Nigeria is not a straight line.

The respect and discipline in the military is top-notch. Gambo is 36RC and the present CDS is 39 or 40, you know how many times he must have saluted Gambo?

If the CDS wanted to budge, when Wike called him, he could have ordered those boys to leave but he didn't, there is a reason why. As it stands today, only Tinubu as GCFR can order those soldiers to stand down and he won't.

There is already a failed coup, once it gets to the Barracks, that a Wike pre-empted an entry on the property of a former CNS, the discontent won't be funny, it will be double the trouble he presently has. So, the Tinubu I know will look away.

If Wike likes, he can visit there a million times, if Tinubu, through the CDS doesn't order those boys to stand down, they will remain there. The reason why the young officer told him straight up, they are under orders.

What are you saying exactly.

That a retired CNS has power engage a serving military personnel to guide his private property?

The chain of illegality that brought a naval officer to guide a property of a retired officer will first of all be exposed and head will roll.

I trust Wike to take a legal action against anyone that is involved in that anomaly.

Proving the legality of the property is another case that Wike will see to the end.

Accepting abnormality because it happened to someone we don't like won't end well.

Tomorrow, when soldier harass Otti or Peter Obi we will be here to point out the hypocrisy many of you display in this case

dfrost:
No shakes baba fergs. If I show my pops this one, his anger will make eba this night.

What are you saying exactly.

That a retired CNS has power engage a serving military personnel to guide his private property?

The chain of illegality that brought a naval officer to guide a property of a retired officer will first of all be exposed and head will roll.

I trust Wike to take a legal action against anyone that is involved in that anomaly.

Proving the legality of the property is another case that Wike will see to the end.

Accepting abnormality because it happened to someone we don't like won't end well.

Tomorrow, when soldier harass Otti or Peter Obi we will be here to point out the hypocrisy many of you display in this case