₦airaland Forum

Olodostein:
In Nigeria, we buy and sell almost practically everything with cash. This has made people to sometimes cut their coat according to their cloth for the most part, and left no loophole to be exploited. On the flip side, some say, it limits economic growth because of lack of credit flow. If our leaders had managed our money well by putting in place the necessary infrastructure , I think our system would be one of the best in the world.

Contrastingly, in the west and some other so called developed economies. The system is mostly credit based. Almost every tangible goods are bought and sold with credit. They spend more than they can afford and excess consumerism is encouraged. Credit cards are issued and mortgages taken with increasingly interest rates. This is one of the major factors that triggered the financial crisis and shook the global financial system which is still felt today.  America - epitome of capitalism- owes about 15 trillion dollars in debt.  Other European countries are struggling with their debt crises as well.

From your observation, which is more efficient and sustainable?

Pukkah:
Of course yes.

ATLgal:
No anger. Just pointing out it has it's roots in an error. E no reach the level u wan take am.

ATLgal:
it is slang and it is used for people in service as well, IE police officers.

llbhuds:
Seems u believe everything u read or reported in the media
Good for you

chuglothen:
There is HIV but not as much as the various health organisations exagerrate it. I did six months Industrial training in a Nigerian hospital that is an accredited Heart to Heart centre. Therfore I can authoritatively say that HIV does not occur in 1 out of 10 people. Out of the 4325 persons that did their tests there during my stay, HIV positive persons were 118.

llbhuds:
during my final yr in the university(2004), we had a symposium on HIV/Aids and we were informed that out of every 10 sexually active Nigerians, 1 is HIV positive. but to challenge this, i have a very good analysis. i was living in cyprus for like 3yrs ( i once lived in both sides) and every non European is subjected to a compulsory HIV/Aids test. the population of Nigerians living on both sides ( that are sexually active) of the island that had done this mandatory HIV/Aids test is over 5000 and still counting and i am yet to see any Nigerian been deported because of his/her status of being positive to this disease.
so guys i think everyone can decide within him/herself from this little analysis of mine and its subjected to criticism because we are all scholars and we have individual differences.

CAN WE BELIEVE ALL THIS RESULTS ABOUT HIV/AIDS IN NIGERIA

aribisala0:
what is my stance??

my stance is that it has no relevance to our discussion other than to point out that it is NOT always true that one may NOT lawfully buy goods from another who does  not have good title.

my friend i am not sure what your point is and from the look of it we both share my uncertainty

i believe there would be a presumption of due diligence by any reasonable person in these circumstances

aribisala0:
i am not going to convince you and you will NOT convince me .
but like i said find out what GOOD FAITH means in Switzerland
why??
there is no absolute law. law is relative and varies from place to place

but

whatever the case with that argument it is irrelevant here.
you might forego property you bought(depending on circumstances and jurisdiction) if they were stolen

were these goods stolen??

if they were not then you have to sue for them and the recovery procedure is NOT the same for stolen property
there is no question of theft here??

Art. 3
1
Where the law makes a legal effect conditional on the good faith of a
person, there shall be a presumption of good faith.
2
No person may invoke the presumption of good faith if he or she has
failed exercise the diligence required by the circumstances.

aribisala0:
you seem determined to engage in a vainglorious exercise.

we are talking about equipment auctioned from the nigerian ports

let us not go off at a tangent till we end up talking about the behaviour of subatomic particlles in aluminium foil

all i am saying is that


there is no theft here unless we have not been given the truth

the customs are obliged to give consignees notice of impending auction

they claim that they did so let us deal with the here and now and not talk about year one or year x law.
if the customs have done everything that they are claiming they did then in my view

there has been no theft and
the goods are lawfully auctioned.
knowing nigeria like i do  i can speculate about what went down but we must deal with the facts as they are told us .

i believe in using the smallest possible tool to accomplish a task and so i don't see the need for biographical data about your licensing status it is good (for you)but IRRELEVANT .
all i am tryin to show is that the position is by no means the same across different jurisdictions with regard to rights to stolen goods that are purchased in good faith but
for the UMPTEENTH TIME
it is by no means clear that they were stolen as we have a statement from no less that the comptroller of customs to that effect

truth is the buyers acted lawfully and may sue the govt,for substantial damages if they take them back by force. we must not forget that govt is not above the law

You cannot sell what you do not own. The title (legal rights) to the property did not pass to the Customs, which means that the title cannot be passed on to the buyers of the property. The contract for sale/auction is void ab initio and the innocent 3rd parties only have a claim against the Customs.

Also, the 3rd parties cannot be jailed because they didn't do anything wrong and only got duped.

Thinking about this further, it is also possible that there's a law that effectively gives legal rights to abandoned property to the customs. If true, then they can dispose it according to their rules.

The next question will be to determine if the property fits the definition of “abandoned property.” If it does, then the senate can’t really do anything but to change the law as written. Then again, this is Nigeria!

aribisala0:
we are talking about goods that have been bought in good faith at an auction from the government.
there is a risk that the good may be defective etc.

[b]there is no theft here[/b]
so i don't see what your point is here??

no one has reported a theft and if the customs followed the guidelines
 they would have put an ad in the newspapers so i really am perplexed at what you are trying to say

aribisala0:
we are talking about goods that have been bought in good faith at an auction from the government.
there is a risk that the good may be defective etc.

[b]there is no theft here[/b]
so i don't see what your point is here??

no one has reported a theft and if the customs followed the guidelines
they would have put an ad in the newspapers so i really am perplexed at what you are trying to say

aribisala0:
most people think they know the law but ONLY YOU DO
WHICH LAW ?
NIGERIAN LAW?
statute or general legal principles
find someone else to lecture about the law NOT ME
what you are talking about is NOT RELEVANT here
i gave you the example of a WALMART EMPLOYEE who mistakenly reduces the price of an item causing significant loss to WALMART can the goods be recovered as "STOLEN"


ownership of stolen goods that are purchased in [b]good faith [/b]varies in several jurisdictions all based on cased law and not usually on detailed LEGISLATION

I SUGGEST YOU research recent amendments to UK law and the position in Switzerland with regards to stolen goods "PURCHASED IN GOOD FAITH"

the position in NIGERIAN LAW is NOT settled
of cause i would welcome any reference to statute or case law NOT BLUSTERY BOMBAST

was anything stolen in this case

from whom

this whole argument is irrelevant in this case as there is no theft or related case before the police
what we have is a blunder by officials who were in lawful possession unless there is evidence of collusion with the buyers which cannot be ruled out but must be PROVEN

aribisala0:
in this case their is no evidence of fraud or theft more like a blunder e.g. an employee of walmart mistakenly marks a dress for $20 instead of 200 and i buy it and walmart tries to recover same from me

let us be real here. where is the evidence for fraud/theft or crime in this case

aribisala0:
again this is wrong and there are no absolutes.

most individual cases will be dealt with on their own merit

if i steal $1000 from you and use the money to have a party at McDonalds and the money is found in the CASH REGISTER what do we do ?? who owns the money??

aribisala0:
are those who currently have possesion of the goods doing so lawfully or are they in possession of stolen goods ??
possession is a distinct issue from ownership.
this seems quite straightforward based on the testimony of the customs. they have attended the auction (A government Auction) in good faith and taken an investment risk. they did not steal the goods and the last person that was lawfully in possession of these goods (the customs) has not reported them stolen


civil
do those who have possession now have lawful ownership and from the governments perspective how can the goods be recovered

this is a more complex issue but if the owners of the good can show that the customs have not followed the law in auctioning their goods they may have a claim against the Customs NOT those who bought the goods

aribisala0:
with respect that is bunkum.

[b]
there is legislation that empowers the customs to do just that [/b]which has already been alluded to. of course there are so many ifs here without access to details.

but there is no doubt that under prescribed circumstances the customs may auction goods at the port whether contraband,unclaimed etc

the 3rd parties are in possession of the goods and they cannot be recovered by illegal means, rather if any it is the owner of the goods that has a claim on the customs if at all

if the customs actually auctioned the goods then they are not stolen and cannot be recovered under stolen goods procedures but through the civil courts and i do not see that happening, wgat is more likely is that the government may resort to criminal self help knowing nigeria and they will be sued for huge damages

emmatok:
SO what do you say about POLICE, LASTMA and other GOVT agencies Auctioning off people properties.


These practice is not new.