₦airaland Forum

Danielnino00:
Nigeria approached Iorfa when he was in form in the championship. You can check it..But his father told us to wait till his son clocked 23..At that time he was with the England youth team and his career was on the rise but he was simply not ready to play for us yet...He later made a U-turn some months later but it was too late..we already had Ekong, Omeruo, Balogun and Awazeim... Currently Iorfa isn't playing.. Should we invite him based on his past exploit?
Gareth Southgate that you are backing often accused Rohr of calling up Success and Osimhen on the basis of their exploit at youth level but wants us to call up Iorfa...

You know everyone has the right to an opinion so don't accuse 'Southgate' for expressing his. Although I know he can be a wind up merchant lol

In my opinion Osimhen has never done enough for a call-up. But that's a different matter. Any link to an article on Iorfa rejecting Nigeria? That would help settle the issue.

Icon4s:
Has Dominic Iorfa jnr now agreed to play for Nigeria?

I don't know. But I found this on Google, it seems he would have been available for Nigeria had he been called.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thecable.ng/dominic-iorfa-long-im-alive-son-must-play-super-eagles/amp

Icon4s:
Oga what are you implying sef?

That we should ignore Semi Ajayi and continue to beg Dominic Iorfa and his father?

What problem do you even have with Semi Ajayi representing Nigeria at U20 level. Tomorrow if someone acuses you of your dislike for Nigerian groomed players you will start citing emotive bias and Negative prejudice.

This your "English born" thing has really taken another level.

Please we can only invite players that are available to us.

Nah bro I back @komekn on this one. The broad question being posed here is regarding consistency in selection criteria. The players being discussed should be seen as mere examples in trying to explain the case. Why did a player perform at a certain level for a long period of time and was ignored and then a different player performs at a similar level for a shorter spell and he is called up? That's the question being asked

BascoVanVeli:
The national team is for all Nigerian footballers. It is easy to say all this now but just remember that Musa, Etebo and Shehu are the players they are because the national team gave them the chance while they were in the league. You cannot have your cake and eat it too, Ekong was a nobody when he came into the SE and look at him now. If he can go from Norway to Italy while on the SE why can't a player based in Nigeria make the same leap.

As u have noticed I have not clamored for a single player in a while and that is because the league is off but the fact is football is about form and when the league starts there will be players who's form deserve a shot a the NT. Brazil have players in the best leagues but if a young Brazilian starts showing class in their league the coach will call him up. Honestly I just don't like the way Rohr put his answer because that was very disrespectful to the young men plying their trade at home. The biggest issue is that these guys get zero respect in Nigeria. I have been at their trainings and the way Rohr treats the homeboys is disgraceful, no difference between them and the ball, pure training material.

Nah bro the national team is for ONLY the finest Nigerian players.

tbaba1234:
Adeleke and Afeez Aremu relegated with ik Start

That Adeleke dude was firing goals in the early stages of the Europa League for his team in Latvia and then seemed to think a move to a struggling team in Norway was 'progress' ...just like Mr Etebo moved to Stoke from Feirense on the eve of the world cup. Na wa for some people sha. Is good advice this hard to come by?

I will always remember Imoh Ezekiel. An excellent prospect who was having a Stormer of a season for Standard Liege a couple of years ago, alongside Michy Batshuayi and then decided to move to Qatar. His career has never recovered ever since.

BascoVanVeli:
Wat the coach said is as silly as saying you don't want children because they will grow old and die. We should want our players to go to better situations no matter what. When Musa left the league it was a good thing and the same with Etebo. How will you expect someone to stay in the league for call up when there is no difference between you and a cone when you get there.

Yes we should want everyone to do well in their respective walks of life BUT the national team should be for only the finest players eligible to play for Nigeria. The clamour for local players or players from any specific background should never arise. As the saying goes, 'a good product sells itself'. Those really good players in the NPFL will do just that on the back of the Super Eagles or otherwise! And as for the others? Ah well a job is a job and they've got jobs

BascoVanVeli:
So because a player is in the national team he should lack ambition? Why didn't Ekong stay in Gent or Norway. The national team makes it easier to sell every player. That is why scout show up at matches so is this really news? The coach should stop being lazy and search for players. Just like he said Nosa was the best Nigerian player in Israel so he didn't need John Ogu now all of a sudden he can't drop him. I rather he say the competition isn't good enough than to come up with this mess because it just doesn't add up. Who in the Super Eagles won't want to go to a better club?

You missed the point my friend. In a nutshell Rohr meant to say that good local players don't remain local players for very long when they start getting games with the national team. And when such players inevitably move abroad, some people continue asking for other local players!

So the question is should he dump those players who were local players and then moved abroad simply because of the need to keep having local players in the team? If he does so it would be an aimless and never ending cycle demonstrating extreme stupidity.

komekn:
Actually he has in a cup game and he is a winger. And it's still early days. But what's your point ❓

Do we measure wingers by goal scored Please enlighten me. What's your assessment based on❓

What are the critical delivery points for a winger in your view ❓

Most wingers are not necessarily prolific, unless you are in Liverpool and Manchester city. How many goals did arguably the best winger in the EPL score last season Zaha, or Martial or Rashford or Welbeck, or maybe that's too high up, Adama Traore, (Wolves), Townsend at Palace, etc

A certain youngster at Villarreal has played similar minutes in a similar position and returned more goals and assists. Just saying.

do4luv14:
ibrahim babangida, as in the evil genius, chaiii

infact in sani abacha

Sani Abacha played for Kano Pillars and was never capped

Edit: He actually played for Kwara Utd and had 2 Caps!!

TheSuperNerd:
But the wayo fella indeed agrees that Komekn was being mishievous. You can look up and see just in case you are lost again. Not everyone want to take the bold part like Jesus did in calling a bunch of pretending gentlemen-like pharisees brood of Vipers naa.

Me, I just said it as it is. Finito.

And I don't prefer the home-grown over the foreign borns... That is a nonsense deduction to make. See what I have been saying? You really are lost on this thread. Na wa... Are you even reading at all?

I am for the best talents that will take our Super Eagles forward be you Foreign born, Home-grown or from Mars... Everyone here knows that. So stop trying to say what is not.

Bro I think you went in too hard on komekn. I am not one to tell anyone how to behave online or elsewhere but I think an apology would be a civilized move. Your call though.

komekn:
Taking matters into strict context, you gave an opinion your own I presumed. I then asked you Why ❓

Maybe we have different approaches. I asked you you the simple Why . Expecting you to present details, facts, games played, goals scored, assists, Wow moments, dribbles completed, how you see things that's your view, and why, etc,etc

And you replied with another man's opinion.

Maybe that expectation was too much on my part, I apologise it seems I expected too much.

But what was the point in expecting me to respond with my own view when you had already been presented with the views of an authority on the topic being debated? Stop digging this hole becuase its getting harder to get out of. Lets leave it there lol

Utonwanne:
But wayoman didn't insult him, did he?

All am saying is that insult is not the best solution. You are just like komek.n, you prefer the home-grown especially those that passed through u-17 while he prefers those born within queens territory. This issue is stretching longer than it should. Just try to select your words carefully.... Udo dịrị gi

I actually prefer wayoman to wayodude lol make i change am? lol

TheSuperNerd:
Ohhh nooo not even implying that... But being a founding member and major contributor who follows the events of this thread gives me enough nous to know that you are not versed about most events that take place on this thread.

And also Komekn deserved whatever he got because he is a snake and a bonafide hater of anything Home-grown Naija talent. Icon4s knows this... TheGoodJoe knows this... So many elders here know this and some have Even engaged him before about it but he persists in it. Even when Wayodude answered his ridiculing question on Chukwueze with a Spanish football expert's view, what did Komekn do? He started saying that Wayodude doesn't have his own opinion.

I am pretty sure if the Wayodude fella (sorry for the few mentions man) had given just his own opinion, the tune of Komekn will be that he is no expert and thus he cannot just take his words for it but needs the views of top rated bodies or journals. Wayo gave him that but he evaded it so mischievously.

This was the post that said it all.

komekn:
Firstly, you should have noticed I haven't said one word to TheSuperNerd. In that context there is nothing to lay down.

Secondly, abusive, vitriolic caustic rhetoric are totally alien to my diction. Nothing to lay down there.

I don't see passion

I see misguided blatant bigotry and prejudice.

Everything said so far has been one way traffic of abuse and hatred.

Lots of presumption lots of assumption,never ending allegations, but not one word of substantiation.

This whole brouhaha started because I asked a question ❓ What makes Chukwueze HUGE TALENT WONDERFUL, OUTSTANDING, etc, that's essentially all. A question that should have instituted a healthy informative discussion.

Don't you think you should direct your query to the instigator in chief if you are to fair and balanced.

For goodness sake why would anybody get so heated on a faceless forum.

I strongly believe there was a degree of mischief in what you are now trying to project as an innocent question, perhaps aimed at getting a certain kind of reaction from readers here but they have overreacted.

Why do I say this? Because even when I provided reasonable proof to back up why the player is being described as a huge talent your comeback was only to say I should have my own opinion rather than that of the la Liga expert whose view I referenced. Of what use was that to the debate ??

You were being a wind up merchant and you got served playa. Learn from it. Lol

Mickael2:
I would have taken you up on this but the thread has been taken over by some very very funny people and I don't want to go down to their level. I will call you out again after that Uganda friendly then we can finish this particular argument, even if it means doing it privately. Good morning Sir

You're always welcome. Looking forward to it, please make sure you return.

Mickael2:
So what does it mean? The only other definition that comes to my mind is that he is building the team's philosophy then I will ask, do we have any philosophy now? So if the 'building' isn't exactly in terms of discovering new and better players then what is it about? Definitely not our football pattern

Lets take the investigation in this direction...Since Rohr was appointed and played his first match in Sept 2016 (2yrs and 2 months ago)...

How many players has Rohr capped and what is the average age of these players?
Of the players he has capped or is about to cap, how many do we see as genuine long term national team players?
Is it not getting more obvious his philosophy is centered around fast counter attacking football rather than possession based football? With each game this is clearer and clearer to the trained eye, though i agree it may not be pretty viewing.

Our transition from defense to attack is improving all the time see our first goal at home against Cameroon, the goals at home against Algeria, against Iceland in the WC even against SA over the weekend. When teams sit back and dont attack meaning we need to unlock a packed defence his philosophy unravels and he doesnt come up with a plan B, we come here and shout we need a good Attacking Midfielder and Rohr cannot read games etc etc....some of which i agree with.

Remember a former legendary coach (of course he wasnt called a legendary coach then) who capped 28 yr old Muhammed Gambo of Kano Pillars and took him to the Confederations cup? He also capped near retiree and prodigal son Shola Ameobi and took him to the World Cup. This is the situation we used to have, dont forget.

komekn:
I think what we have is a dramatic difference of approach with regards to how you conclude on what you call Outstanding Talent and what I call it.

I have seen too many players show promise, l have seen players bought for a £1 million pounds played some first team games. Within 3/4 years they are playing non league.

I do not put those accolades on a player lightly. It has to be proven established not just potential. Over time and on the field of play consistent and continous.

Read my first comment again and tell me what words I used in describing him. If i remember correctly my words were 'remarkable prospect', no?

Also are you insinuating that a player be described as 'proven established' and at the same time be described as 'potential'? Is it not one or the other?

You seem confused. Please explain again.

I too have seen many players too sign for millions of pounds and drop to the lower leagues in a few years. And i reckon i have been to more games in all the leagues than many many people perhaps including yourself so I can chip in with my judgement on any young player after a couple of games and wont be far off the mark.

komekn:
EVASION !!!

So essentially you have no opinion of your own. You said he was a HUGE TALENT. You have nothing to under pin your deduction with. Another man's comment has become your own.

What exactly are you after?

I said he was a HUGE TALENT. I have watched him play twice this season and I was impressed with what i saw. I was illustrating further to show that i was not on my own in arriving at that conclusion as even louder voices in football have made similar observations.

Now what more do you want? Please respond, i am waiting and in the mood today. Tread carefully.

and this is news worthy?

kennysville:
No wahala! U will be singing a different tune this time next year

Surely you can do better than resorting to doom and gloom predictions?

komekn:
Your position is clear.

However, With respect you haven't answered my question, l asked to be informed or educated if you like.

Now indulge me, have you seen him play live and or in training to make you conclude so strongly.

Please under pin your position with stats. When you say HUGE I presume you are talking not locally but in the context of world football. That's a resounding commendation so it should not be difficult to substantiate your view.

So he should be doing really consistent outstanding continous top class performances in La Liga.

Let's be specifc how many games has he played in La Liga ❓ goals to assists, etc

I am talking neither in the context of local nor world football. My description is in line with the views of the the media covering la liga, who i strongly believe have seen more of him than you and I. No?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/4622924


You watch more la liga than Guillem Balague?

If Balague thinks he's exciting perhaps Najia fans can be forgiven for feeling the same? Pick your battles bro. This one will not fly. Hope i have adequately informed and educated you as requested.

komekn:
That's why l asked the question I really don't know. Watched him against a lowly rated Glasgow Rangers and he was just OK but that's only one game.

It's simplistic what makes him so wonderful? How many La Liga games has he played and possibly goals scored.

He is a huge potential albeit at the beginning of his career. I can understand the excitement of fans waiting to see him play in flesh. He cannot be placed in the same category as the majority of players of his age and background.

Mickael2:
You know this isn't a fair assessment. First of all Omeruo has over 50 caps I believe, but he didn't play that match. Siasia it was that got Ekong so that's out too, then we count Iheanacho, Iwobi, Musa and Ezenwa, that is 6 in total now. In short, way more credit should go to Manu Garba and Amuneke, it is not as if Rohr got these players from the sky.

You do realise when one is credited as building a team it does not mean he 'discovered' all the players in the team right?

komekn:
Just to bring some context and prevent us going down the over hype route again.

Does anybody know how many games this Wonder Kid has played for the first team at Villareal❓❓

What makes him so wonderful in the context of world football not local.

Is he not a remarkable prospect?

Mickael2:
You said Rohr built this team. I am not understanding how exactly because Balogun, Ekong and Omeruo had over 20-25 caps combined before he came. Onazi? Mikel? Ogu? Ighalo? Simon Moses? VicMo? Musa? Shehu? Bar Shehu all the other guys had at least 10 caps already before he came in which means over 2 years of international football each. Rohr has been giving us the results but he didn't inherit 24 bags of cement

How many of those players in the last competitive game before Rohr started against South Africa? Also how many of those players from the last competitive fixture before Rohr will start against Uganda?

We had the youngest team in the world cup didn't we?

Rohr has built the team we have today and is still building.

junnyjake:
If pochetino who's the younger manager is written off by you to improve on his game reading then how would you expect a 62 year old who's a tad too conservative too improve.

Perhaps, you have ideas on how to teach an old dog new tricks.

And just like I said earlier, Spurs don't have a big squad, even if he wants to tweak things, his options are limited.

And I know exactly what you're trying to do. It reminded me of one of the laws of power: you can manipulate people by giving them two options to choose from. Make one of the options more attractive and the other impossible to choose.

That won't work on me bro.

Don't make it an option between an inept coach in Rohr and the obviously corrupt indigenous coaches.

Okay then help us widen the pool of better coaches who are available and willing to come to manage Nigeria and also review the finances involved in bringing that special manager here. When you're done let's discuss our options again.

Mickael2:
I did point out that I can not remember which match exactly that was, but our dominance was the case 8 times out of 10.

I think I know about that first half syndrome, someone told me then that it was because of how we played in particular that the Europeans started defeating us with proper game planning. If I remember correctly most of the African teams that went to the world cup before 1990 were all North African teams and they played more like European, then Nigeria came with that first half dominant display which caught them off guard in that 94' world cup until Italy showed the whole world that you can use experience to defeat Africans.....I actually do not know how authentic this theory is but I always believed it.

However let me explain again. Rohr's in game management is not even average either, if we play well in the first half then fall asleep in the second half nobody will be asking for Rohr's head, the problem is we do not even play well at all. Back then we paraded some local players, I can argue that they were not as well conditioned as their foreign counterparts but let's not go there. The point here still remains that under Westerhof at least we played well......anyways Sir I have come to realise that some of the persons on nairaland are chieftains in Nigerian football and I have had a lot of personal conversations with them, so I will just leave it at 'you know better than I do'

I don't claim to know better generally speaking. What I do know alot about is the history of our super eagles having watched manager come manger go, player come player go for almost 3 decades and I can tell you now that what is happening today in regards to our team and manager is no different to what happend in the past and we are lucky we didn't change course when there was mounting fan pressure to do so. You are a good guy.

Mickael2:
Haba, this is not true at all. How many of the players that started against SA on Saturday made their debuts under Rohr? Just 2!

You just helped me firm up my point. Thanks

Mickael2:
I know of that, but back then none of the critics could say his team's performance was bad, that match against Algeria happens, that was in 91, I said 93 which is the period I vaguely know of, in that 94 Afcon I remember asking my dad why it was only Nigeria that was passing the ball, I can't remember against which team exactly, such was the dominance and it started from late 92/early 93. Back then the media was against Westerhof not exactly 'every nigerian' like you put it, I know atleast all my elder siblings respect him totally, the media started that war against Westerhof probably because of some personal interest which I do not know, but that isn't even my point. Westerhof took a bunch of guys and had them playing so well that people started saying that any coach could perform wonders with those players, same thing people said about Pep in Barca until Tito and then Tata took over. But in Rohr's case, he has taken a young, talented team backwards, if we are at least performing well but the results aren't coming I may say ok, but bar the match away to Zambia and against Cameroon we haven't seen any extraordinary performance. Bottomline? Westerhof's team was so dominant that people thought anybody could do same with the set of players he had, Rohr's team is so bad that people are wondering if we wouldn't be better off with another person despite the results. Please and please, Rohr's case and that of Westerhof isn't related.

Finally, this talk about Rohr inheriting a good young team and taking them backwards makes me laugh. This was our team in the last competitive game before Rohr was appointed. From what you see there was that a good young team? Hahahaha

Rohr CREATED this team! Ready to debate this with whoever. Try me. Lol

Mickael2:
I know of that, but back then none of the critics could say his team's performance was bad, that match against Algeria happens, that was in 91, I said 93 which is the period I vaguely know of, in that 94 Afcon I remember asking my dad why it was only Nigeria that was passing the ball, I can't remember against which team exactly, such was the dominance and it started from late 92/early 93. Back then the media was against Westerhof not exactly 'every nigerian' like you put it, I know atleast all my elder siblings respect him totally, the media started that war against Westerhof probably because of some personal interest which I do not know, but that isn't even my point. Westerhof took a bunch of guys and had them playing so well that people started saying that any coach could perform wonders with those players, same thing people said about Pep in Barca until Tito and then Tata took over. But in Rohr's case, he has taken a young, talented team backwards, if we are at least performing well but the results aren't coming I may say ok, but bar the match away to Zambia and against Cameroon we haven't seen any extraordinary performance. Bottomline? Westerhof's team was so dominant that people thought anybody could do same with the set of players he had, Rohr's team is so bad that people are wondering if we wouldn't be better off with another person despite the results. Please and please, Rohr's case and that of Westerhof isn't related.

My friend since you admit you were a youngster then let me tell you now, Westerhof was rattled left and right EVEN in 1993. That was when we lost to ivory coast away after taking the lead. In 1993 in terms of selection people were still accusing him of not picking Wilfred Agbonivare in goal to replace Alloy Agu, which he eventually did.
They picked on him to include Richard Owubokiri as one of the strikers but he wouldn't budge and stuck to Yekini, Siasia and Amokachi!
The list of accusations against him was endless.

In terms of game management, they said his team's only played well in the first half and 'fell asleep' in the second half. Westerhof once responded saying 'thats not true, there are no beds on the pitch'

In almost every game under him we played better in the first half scoring most of our goals and were under the cosh in the second half. When we qualified for our first world cup, the final game away to Algeria which we needed a draw to qualify, we scored first in the first half (Finidi) and in the second half when Algeria came at us and scored and then camped in our half looking for a winner to eliminate us I couldn't breathe! That was under the much respected today Westerhof who then was treated like Rohr is now!

Trust me or ask your brothers.

And by the way we didn't always dominante possession even in that 94 AFCON against Egypt in the group stage and Zaire in the quarter final we had less possession.

NwaAmaikpe:




Marriage celebration without a baby to show for their 12 months together as husband and wife is that one a celebration?

They are only mocking themselves.
No child yet and you have the effrontery to celebrate wedding anniversary.

Shame on Banky's family if they have not started putting pressure on Adesuwa.

God knows that if Banky were my brother, I would have since sent that girl packing since she doesn't know what she was married for.

You do realise that not everyone wants children right? And even if they want kids and are yet to conceive do you think messages like yours will be of help?

Your comments indeed shows your level of civilization and it's not looking very good. The majority of people that laugh with people having your mindset online won't associate with you in person.

You are a pleb. No offense.

Mickael2:
Boss, learning curve after three years? At the World Cup your excuse was 'he is still building', now we are getting even worse and you have reversed to 'he is getting results', so after building for the past 3 years all he can manage to do is to 'get results'? By 1993 Westerhof's team was playing brilliant football, I remember asking Sia1 something about that and he told me that by 92 everybody already knew what to do, when you come to camp the coach will just perfect what you had already learnt, if after three years(with a proper tournament in between which affords coaches enough time to train their players) we are still playing without any identity then we haven't built anything. You do know that if Rohr gets sacked that a new coach will have to start from the scratch, because no good coach will adopt this playing method, what then have we built? Klinsman left Germany and Leow came in and continued the same pattern, in that case you can say Klinsman built something, this coach that took Argentina to the final of the 2014 WC left, Martino came in and continued his philosophy and Argentina almost won a Copa, sadly these have been three wasted years, yes we have made it to the WC and the AFCON but what will be the benefit in the long run?

Did we really celebrate Westerhof whilst he was here? Really?? Remember the 5-1 hammering we recieved from Algeria in the opening game of the 1990 AFCON?

Remember the 2-1 loss away to Ivory Coast in the world cup qualifiers for USA 94?

Remember how fans and media ganged up against him saying similar to what you guys are saying about Rohr now? Saying he played 9-0-1 formation in Abidjan?

Remember how people used to criticize his choice of camp in Papandel (Holland) saying he must be the owner of the resort that's why he always camps the team there?

Remember how people said he was only interested in selling players abroad after local boy Finidi joined Ajax. Some said he was after egunje.

Remember people saying our team was so good any manager would have got the results he was getting and our performances were in spite of having him rather than because of him?

Either nostalgia is playing games with many here or they are too young to remember what happened back then. Westerhof was villified big time until he qualified us for the world cup and then won AFCON 1994 and both happened within a space of 3 months!! For the rest of the time he was attacked in beer parlours more than he was defended. Nairaland being one of many modern day beer parlours.

If not for Vice President Aikhomu Westerhof would have been sacked as a result of pressure from fans similar to yourself.