₦airaland Forum

Whenever the topic of Adam and eve comes up, Freewill is never too far behind. To understand the nature of God and his ways we need to have a better understanding of freewill.

To get a better grasp of freewill, we need to ask ourselves certain questions;

Can man's freewill change the will of God?

Is it possible for man to work against the will of God and succeed?

Can the Devil, Satan or Lucifer change, impede or stop the will of God?

In answering these questions, we must realize that God's supremacy supersedes all else. Nothing ever gets in the way of God's will or his grand design, not even the devil!

You must realize that the day that God's will is not supreme is the day he ceases to be omnipotent, omniscient or omnipresent.

Everything created by God succumbs to his will, always.

Now, on the question of Evil, all those in the know please explain its origin:

1 Samuel 2:6-8

6The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.

7The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and lifteth up.

8He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them.

1 Samuel 18: 10

And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.

1 Samuel 19: 9

And the evil spirit from the LORD [/b]was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with his hand.

[b]Isaiah 45: 5 - 7

5I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

6That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.



If you can follow my train of thought from the above, hopefully you'll start to make sense of what follows next:

Contrary to the belief of many, we live in a perfect-imperfect world where everything is in balance.

Consider all the professions that exist in the world today, now consider if we lived in this utopia where all is perfect and good, if these same professions would still exist?

The doctor and the health care system in existence would no longer exist, since there would be no illness!

The judicial system, lawyers, police, prison system will no longer exist since there would be no crime!

Governments will cease, since God would be in total control and we would all be perfect self-sufficient law abiding citizens!

Now, if we were all perfect, what need would there be to learn from each other? Do foresee a need for God in such a scenario? We need God because we are sinners! We need God because we are dependent on him!

What follows is my understanding of the story of Adam and Eve:


THE PURPOSE OF LIFE

The dream of every good parent is to see their children prosper and excel and achieve beyond themselves.  The process of making this dream a reality begins with you the parents. What kind of traits you have and exhibit. Your level of spiritual, emotional, and mental development and ultimately God’s will or design for you and what role your linage is ordained to play in the grand scheme of things.
The traits you pass on children are imprinted in your genes/genetic codes, both physically and spiritually. The spiritual part of it is determined by God. He decides whether you will be a good or bad spirit from the start. Invariably, the type of sprit God has made you, informs/directs/shapen who you are and what manner of individual you turn out to be.

Essentially, this earthly situation is a reflection of the heavenly one. God’s will for us as his children, from the start is for us to be like him, which is means God-like.  But one crucial point to remember is that we are gods, because our Father is God. Adam and Eve were the first children of God. They were essentially the first babies to exists, but in adult form. This however made no difference to their level of understanding; they still were babies to all intents and purposes with the reasoning levels of babies at infancy.

Since God’s intention is for man to be like him, he had to set in place /put in motion a situation whereby we can learn to become like him. Becoming like God means having the ability and power to discern good from evil.  The ability to discern good from evil requires having these virtues; tolerance, mercy, compassion, love, long-suffering, humility, kindness etc. The ability to be God-like (telling right from wrong) is what many Christians arrogate to themselves without realizing that no man truly knows the difference between right and wrong, good or bad.

Ecclesiastes 9: 1

For all this I considered in my heart even to declare all this, that the righteous, and the wise, and their works, are in the hand of God: no man knoweth either love or hatred by all that is before them.
The qualities that make God who he is cannot be taught, neither can it be bestowed on anyone, they can however be learnt and acquired over a period of time. A period of time being thousands, if not millions of years!

Adam and Eve being the first children of God did not have the comprehension or capability to know or discern right from wrong.  They were basically toddlers being told by their parent what to do and what not to do.  But as we all know, being part and parcel of God and having trace elements of him within us, we all have a desire, a yearning, a quest for knowledge, understanding and awareness because God himself is Knowledge, Understanding and Awareness.  However, unlike God who is Knowledge, Understanding and Awareness, we crave to know, to understand and be aware.

Hence the only way we can satisfy/quench this void in/within ourselves is to seek fulfilment.  Seeking fulfilment of that which we lack requires experience and the very act of experience which later becomes knowledge, understanding and awareness which also results in wisdom, can usually be good or bad, right or wrong, sweet or sour.

To this end, it starts becoming apparent that Adam and Eve had to fall so as to rise. Their fall was inevitable owing to the fact that their inherent God traits would not permit them to do otherwise. You could very well say God had pre-programmed them to act so. But why punish them if their action is as a result of being created in the image and likeness of God?

Owing to the manner in which God operates, he could not ask, tell or force Adam and Eve to become God-like.  This was a decision they had to “arrive” at themselves. To “arrive” at this decision, Adam and Eve were tormented by the longing and yearning to know, understand and be aware and the conflict of being told this was something they should not do. This is similar to saying a lion cub should not have the innate desire to kill prey for its meal or that a dog will not have the innate desire to eat meat.

The turmoil, conflict and indecision experienced by Adam and Eve, but which overwhelmed Eve more, is what the bible symbolizes as “the serpent, the most subtle of all beasts of the field, made by God” The serpent is used to symbolize indecision because of its “slithering back and forth movement” or in the case of Adam and Eve, should we or shouldn’t we become God-like, should I or shouldn’t I become God-like?

So, in reality God did not punish Adam and Eve, for choosing to become God-like, rather he put in place a process whereby Adam and Eve, and therefore all mankind would be able to learn from experience how to become God-like. And this process by its very nature is bitter and sweet, wrong and right, good and bad, which is synonymous with the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and the very essence of God.

So, in order to understand this dance of life, you must be aware that because God is a spirit, man also is a spirit and since the spirit of God cannot die, neither can the spirit of God in man die.  The spirit of God in man is an adaptive resilient spirit. Where ever it finds itself it thrives, prospers, grows and regenerates. This is simply why, no matter the trial, tribulation or temptation faced by any man with the spirit of God within him, will always be overcome.

Take for instance the story of Esau and Jacob, their paths in life was already carved out before they were born. The elder was supposed to serve the younger, so why should it be that their mother did wrong by helping Jacob “steal” Esau’s blessings? What kind of hunger could possess a man to sell his birthright for food, when he himself was not crippled or were there no fruits he could have eaten? Why did it happen that their father was also conveniently blind, preventing him from identifying Jacob as the wrong son? Which begs the question how can God be just and fair in light of these occurrences? The answer to these questions will hopefully become clearer as we proceed.

A similar story worthy of mention is that of Job. We are told how Satan came along with the sons of God to pay homage to God. During this visit, God drew Satan’s attention to Job. He sang Job’s praise to the point Satan had to retort haba! Are you not the one protecting him? Comot protection and let us see if he will continue to praise you. God then gave authority to Satan to do whatever he pleased to Job but not take his life. In a nutshell, God gave Satan the authority to destroy all that he owed wealth and family, yet Job remained faithful to God. After a period of time had passed and Satan had exercised him might to no avail, God replaced everything he lost.

The question many would ask is how can God be just if he allowed Satan to kill his family? Many would ask, what could possibly justify such actions? What lesson or lessons can one possibly learn from this occurrence?

Job represents the adaptive resilient spirit of God in man that triumphs through trials, tribulations and temptations and highlights a very crucial point in aspiring to be God-like; you must be tried, proven and tested at every level before you can proceed to the next. At another level, we start to realize that life is a school through which we learn different modules of a subject; we learn about the different aspects of love, compassion, tolerance etc.

In this school we all are the students. God provides all the opportunities we require to learn about the different aspects of a subject and Satan is the Chief examiner who tests our competence at every stage or level before we can proceed to the next, which gives meaning to the phrase, no cross (trials, tribulations & temptation), no crown (the glory of passing each stage of examination).

At another level, we are made aware of the impotence of Satan. The combined visit of the sons of God and Satan at the same time draws attention to the co-existence of good and evil in man, but when a man has a good spirit as the dominant force within him, he is more able and drawn towards good and Satan is powerless against him since God always protects his own.  For a child of God to experience “evil” permission has to be granted by God. Put into proper perspective, what we would call “evil” to God, is a necessary test to prove us worthy children of God.

Contrary to the belief of many, there are two sides to God which also reflects the dual nature of man. We have the inherent ability to either be good or evil, wrong or right, sweet or sour. Good on its own is an extreme form of Evil. Likewise, Evil on its own is also an extreme form of Good. A true balance is only possible with the present of both spirits simultaneously, but only God has the full power, authority and ability to control all spirits since they all emanate from him.

Hence, if we are to become God-like, the requirement is that we learn to balance and effectively utilize the existence of good and evil within us.  To further clarity things, how can anyone possibly appreciate good or evil without the presence of the other to compare or contrast with? How can anyone appreciate good health without the contrast of sickness or ill-health? This is where Ecclesiastes 3: 1 – 8, begins to have better clarification;

1.   To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2.   A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3.   A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4.   A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5.   A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6.   A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7.   A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8.   A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

Imagine a block-buster movie that has just premiered. Will Smith is the star. In the movie we see numerous actors and actresses portray the lives of other people and they seem almost real. Some of these actors and actresses experience death, murder, decapitation, loss, rape, birth etc in these films and we almost believe them!

In real life, we are all God’s actors and actresses. He is the screen writer, film director and producer and he chooses the story line, moral and outcome for each movie. In the same way Will Smith exists outside each movie he features in, the same way we each exist outside “real life”, which draws attention to our true existence which is our spiritual existence.

Rest assured, each movie we all star in has a lesson to be learnt from.

This understanding will form the basis for my explanation and understanding of God being just and fair.

WHO IS GOD?

God is a spiritual immortal being that is called or can be known as Consciousness. If you can agree that thoughts do exist and yet cannot be seen until transformed into a creation, then you can readily accept the existence of God. Look around you and you will find that everything that surrounds you was once a thought, i.e. the chair you sit on.

Since we are created in the image and likeness of God, we know that God creates by making spiritual things physical. Herein lies a trait we share with God, we also create physical things from spiritual things, the spiritual thing here being our thoughts. More importantly is the knowledge that everything we do takes on form; our thoughts, words and actions.

God creates with the Word, and we are told in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. Man being a physical reflection of God on earth also has the Word within him, but with measure. Essentially, the Word is God and also a power of God. What this means in essence is that the Word in the hands of man, is a tool or power that requires delicate and sensible use.
The words we speak are spirits that can either create or destroy. And part of the reason it creates or destroys is because the Word is a spirit and a power that controls and influences all creation. Man being a creation of the spirit and being a spirit means man is easily influenced by the words spoken by other men. With words we can inspire men to greater heights or to the depths of hell.

This is why Proverbs says,

Pleasant words are as an honeycomb, sweet to the soul, and health to the bones.

He that hath knowledge spareth his words: and a man of understanding is of an excellent spirit. Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

A fool’s mouth is his distruction, and his lips are the snare of his soul.

Colossians 4:6

Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

Ephesians 4:29
Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

This is why the scriptures urge us to speak with grace, as we will reap what we sow.  When we speak positive words, these words seek out similar spirits, germinate, multiply and return to us multiplied. How these words that return to us now take effect in our lives has a lot to do with the kind of karma or spirit that surrounds us.

God in his infinite wisdom gave us restrained used of the word. Reason being, we lack adequate wisdom, knowledge and understanding to enable its profitable use. This means to use the word to any effect, either positively or negatively, we need to draw upon a passion from deep within ourselves. If we draw upon a deep feeling of sincerity, love or hatred from within, our words will have an impact. This is why we are advised against the use of idle words.

Unless I’m mistaken, most Nigerians are aware of the power of the spoken word. We know that the efficacy of using positive words to bless ourselves. For example, Yorubas, when they have headaches, would rather say my enemy is having a headache! There rather pronounce negative things to a third person rather then themselves.

Another example is when a Yoruba person has been unfairly and unjustly offended and they take it to heart. They have been known to strip naked in the early hours of the morning, calling on upon God to avenge them, proclaiming that they have neither tasted anything with salt or pepper and they know that they have done nothing to warrant the ill-treatment they have received. This is a powerful cry for justice which often does work!

Specific institutions put in place by God to ensure the smooth running of our spiritual equilibrium.  One such institution is our spiritual bank accounts. These are similar to having a normal current bank account. The difference here is that the currency being traded is good or bad actions or reactions, positive or negative words, thoughts and deeds.

When we perform positive deeds our account is positively credited and it obviously accrues interest. The same applies if the deeds are negative.

Now, since no one is perfect, we are each prone to doing sinful or negative things occasionally, but what makes a difference is what we are prone to doing most of the time. Therefore if we are prone to doing more positive than negative things, our bank balance will be in credit and therefore positive. So despite a few negative withdrawals, our positive bank balance negates our negative withdrawals. This is similar to having a £10,000 bank balance and you make a £100 withdrawal.

Now consider a situation where an individual thrives on doing bad things. His account will obviously be in the red coupled with the additional charges for being overdrawn. Now, if this individual now has a negative thought about someone or something, the thought goes out to find/merge with similar thoughts, and if similar thought patterns are found, it multiples and returns to each thought originator many fold, but if similar thought patterns are not found they still return as they went out, in which case the account is debited twice.

Now the consequence of having a positive spiritual bank balance is that when you are in need of some form of help or assistance i.e. you run into a problem in life, the spiritual law of reaping what you sow kicks in. You spiritual account will be checked and if you have insufficient credit, the help or assistance you receive will either be adequate to your needs because you are considered credit-worthy (you have a good spirit, hence your balance will reflect your good spirit in no time) or you will receive a help proportional to your balance but which may not be adequate to the help you require.  The worst case scenario is applicable to those with grossly negative balances. If per chance they have any positive deed credited to their account, the grossly negative balance will not make any difference to then unless they can bring their account back to credit.

Now imagine that this account holder does not clear his debit balance in this life time. What happens is that when his spirit is reborn through reincarnation, the person will go through life experiencing a life of lack. Especially in those areas that brought about the negative balance in the first instance. Although, if essentially, the person has a good spirit, opportunities will be provided to make amends and right wrongs. But consider a woman who ties her womb in this life time because she no longer wants children. Unfortunately upon her return through reincarnation, she will most likely, return barren and the joy of having children will elude her. But her passion and desire to have children will wax stronger.

Another trait of God is that he sustains all creation. He is the breath of life and through him we all exist. This same trait can also be found in man. Owing to being created in God’s likeness, we also sustain our creations, and not all our creations are physical! They are mostly spiritual in nature! How you might begin to wonder?

Every thought that we think has life! They have life because we are alive and we sustain them. And for every thought that we each think, the thought goes out seeking similar thought patterns and they combine in force and return to each originator multiplied, magnified and more powerful.

If you think carefully or start to take note about your thoughts and feelings, you will realize that there have been instances when for no obvious reason your thoughts go to a particular individual or individuals. The thoughts could either be positive or negative. But when someone thinks evil or good of you or towards you, instantly you feel the vibration, and based on the nature of the thought, you start reciprocating similar thoughts to the same individual.

THE PURPOSE OF LIFE

The dream of every good parent is to see their children prosper and excel and achieve beyond themselves.  The process of making this dream a reality begins with you the parents. What kind of traits you have and exhibit. Your level of spiritual, emotional, and mental development and ultimately God’s will or design for you and what role your linage is ordained to play in the grand scheme of things.
The traits you pass on children are imprinted in your genes/genetic codes, both physically and spiritually. The spiritual part of it is determined by God. He decides whether you will be a good or bad spirit from the start. Invariably, the type of sprit God has made you, informs/directs/shapen who you are and what manner of individual you turn out to be.

Essentially, this earthly situation is a reflection of the heavenly one. God’s will for us as his children, from the start is for us to be like him, which is means God-like.  But one crucial point to remember is that we are gods, because our Father is God. Adam and Eve were the first children of God. They were essentially the first babies to exists, but in adult form. This however made no difference to their level of understanding; they still were babies to all intents and purposes with the reasoning levels of babies at infancy.

Since God’s intention is for man to be like him, he had to set in place /put in motion a situation whereby we can learn to become like him. Becoming like God means having the ability and power to discern good from evil.  The ability to discern good from evil requires having these virtues; tolerance, mercy, compassion, love, long-suffering, humility, kindness etc. The ability to be God-like (telling right from wrong) is what many Christians arrogate to themselves without realizing that no man truly knows the difference between right and wrong, good or bad.

Ecclesiastes 9: 1

For all this I considered in my heart even to declare all this, that the righteous, and the wise, and their works, are in the hand of God: no man knoweth either love or hatred by all that is before them.
The qualities that make God who he is cannot be taught, neither can it be bestowed on anyone, they can however be learnt and acquired over a period of time. A period of time being thousands, if not millions of years!

Adam and Eve being the first children of God did not have the comprehension or capability to know or discern right from wrong.  They were basically toddlers being told by their parent what to do and what not to do.  But as we all know, being part and parcel of God and having trace elements of him within us, we all have a desire, a yearning, a quest for knowledge, understanding and awareness because God himself is Knowledge, Understanding and Awareness.  However, unlike God who is Knowledge, Understanding and Awareness, we crave to know, to understand and be aware.

Hence the only way we can satisfy/quench this void in/within ourselves is to seek fulfilment.  Seeking fulfilment of that which we lack requires experience and the very act of experience which later becomes knowledge, understanding and awareness which also results in wisdom, can usually be good or bad, right or wrong, sweet or sour.

To this end, it starts becoming apparent that Adam and Eve had to fall so as to rise. Their fall was inevitable owing to the fact that their inherent God traits would not permit them to do otherwise. You could very well say God had pre-programmed them to act so. But why punish them if their action is as a result of being created in the image and likeness of God?

Owing to the manner in which God operates, he could not ask, tell or force Adam and Eve to become God-like.  This was a decision they had to “arrive” at themselves. To “arrive” at this decision, Adam and Eve were tormented by the longing and yearning to know, understand and be aware and the conflict of being told this was something they should not do. This is similar to saying a lion cub should not have the innate desire to kill prey for its meal or that a dog will not have the innate desire to eat meat.

The turmoil, conflict and indecision experienced by Adam and Eve, but which overwhelmed Eve more, is what the bible symbolizes as “the serpent, the most subtle of all beasts of the field, made by God” The serpent is used to symbolize indecision because of its “slithering back and forth movement” or in the case of Adam and Eve, should we or shouldn’t we become God-like, should I or shouldn’t I become God-like?

So, in reality God did not punish Adam and Eve, for choosing to become God-like, rather he put in place a process whereby Adam and Eve, and therefore all mankind would be able to learn from experience how to become God-like. And this process by its very nature is bitter and sweet, wrong and right, good and bad, which is synonymous with the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and the very essence of God.

So, in order to understand this dance of life, you must be aware that because God is a spirit, man also is a spirit and since the spirit of God cannot die, neither can the spirit of God in man die.  The spirit of God in man is an adaptive resilient spirit. Where ever it finds itself it thrives, prospers, grows and regenerates. This is simply why, no matter the trial, tribulation or temptation faced by any man with the spirit of God within him, will always be overcome.

Take for instance the story of Esau and Jacob, their paths in life was already carved out before they were born. The elder was supposed to serve the younger, so why should it be that their mother did wrong by helping Jacob “steal” Esau’s blessings? What kind of hunger could possess a man to sell his birthright for food, when he himself was not crippled or were there no fruits he could have eaten? Why did it happen that their father was also conveniently blind, preventing him from identifying Jacob as the wrong son? Which begs the question how can God be just and fair in light of these occurrences? The answer to these questions will hopefully become clearer as we proceed.

A similar story worthy of mention is that of Job. We are told how Satan came along with the sons of God to pay homage to God. During this visit, God drew Satan’s attention to Job. He sang Job’s praise to the point Satan had to retort haba! Are you not the one protecting him? Comot protection and let us see if he will continue to praise you. God then gave authority to Satan to do whatever he pleased to Job but not take his life. In a nutshell, God gave Satan the authority to destroy all that he owed wealth and family, yet Job remained faithful to God. After a period of time had passed and Satan had exercised him might to no avail, God replaced everything he lost.

The question many would ask is how can God be just if he allowed Satan to kill his family? Many would ask, what could possibly justify such actions? What lesson or lessons can one possibly learn from this occurrence?

Job represents the adaptive resilient spirit of God in man that triumphs through trials, tribulations and temptations and highlights a very crucial point in aspiring to be God-like; you must be tried, proven and tested at every level before you can proceed to the next. At another level, we start to realize that life is a school through which we learn different modules of a subject; we learn about the different aspects of love, compassion, tolerance etc.

In this school we all are the students. God provides all the opportunities we require to learn about the different aspects of a subject and Satan is the Chief examiner who tests our competence at every stage or level before we can proceed to the next, which gives meaning to the phrase, no cross (trials, tribulations & temptation), no crown (the glory of passing each stage of examination).

At another level, we are made aware of the impotence of Satan. The combined visit of the sons of God and Satan at the same time draws attention to the co-existence of good and evil in man, but when a man has a good spirit as the dominant force within him, he is more able and drawn towards good and Satan is powerless against him since God always protects his own.  For a child of God to experience “evil” permission has to be granted by God. Put into proper perspective, what we would call “evil” to God, is a necessary test to prove us worthy children of God.

Contrary to the belief of many, there are two sides to God which also reflects the dual nature of man. We have the inherent ability to either be good or evil, wrong or right, sweet or sour. Good on its own is an extreme form of Evil. Likewise, Evil on its own is also an extreme form of Good. A true balance is only possible with the present of both spirits simultaneously, but only God has the full power, authority and ability to control all spirits since they all emanate from him.

Hence, if we are to become God-like, the requirement is that we learn to balance and effectively utilize the existence of good and evil within us.  To further clarity things, how can anyone possibly appreciate good or evil without the presence of the other to compare or contrast with? How can anyone appreciate good health without the contrast of sickness or ill-health? This is where Ecclesiastes 3: 1 – 8, begins to have better clarification;

1. To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2. A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3. A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4. A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5. A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6. A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7. A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8. A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

This is why we live in a perfect-imperfect world where everything is in balance. Imagine a world were everything is good and therefore perfect.  There will be no sickness, no crime, no police, no law, and no judicial system; neither will there be a diversity of religions because we should all be perfect.  Now, if we all are perfect, of what need would there be to learn from each other? Do foresee the need for God in such a scenario?

The goal for Christianity is to be God-like, Christ-like or Christ’s of God. Hence our entire drive is not how we will gain entrance into heaven, but how we will resemble God.

If you think carefully about the evolution of man, you will realize that our growth is sequential. We grow from one stage to the next and from one level to the other, from infancy into adulthood. This is evident through history, through each stage of our development which is represented by a particular age. There was a point in time man was barbaric. There was no compassion, mercy, love or tolerance. This barbaric stage of our development can be likened to a period in the growth of a child known as the terrible twos.
Below is an excerpt about the terrible two’s stage;

The phrase alone can make new parents quake in their boots: the ‘terrible twos’. No doubt everyone has told you about it – how your child will go from sweet to sour adorable to deplorable, angel to devil – and all without there being anything you can do about it. In part, these experienced advisors are correct. Most children do go through the ‘terrible twos’ as a normal part of their development, but this does not mean that misbehaviour should be accepted or encouraged. Instead, empathise with your child’s desire to assert his or her own will, but remember that at all times you are still the parent, and you should always act like it.

The ‘Terrible Twos’ and Child Development

As a stereotype, most children over the age of one year become quite negative about daily activities and often begin to say “no” to almost anything suggested to them, sometimes even if it is an activity that they would normally enjoy. Often this behaviour can last beyond the second year, meaning that the ‘terrible twos’ can also turn into the ‘terrible threes’ for some lucky parents. While it can be disconcerting, this new behaviour needn’t cause great worries. It may seem like your child has become contrary and to a degree (s)he has, but there is an underlying stage of child development going on here. What is manifesting itself as negative behaviour is actually your child’s first attempts at becoming independent.

At this stage of our spiritual growth nothing could be done to stop, change or avert it. This was a stage in our growth that we had to experience in order to move on to the next stage. What we need to realize is that with the help of reincarnation man evolves from one spiritual stage of understanding to the next.

There was a point in time you would be killed for admitting you can see visions or having the ability to prophesy, you would be considered a heretic. Also during this period the main church was the Roman Catholic Church. They were responsible for the Inquisition.

The process of becoming God-like involves what we have come to know as death with the help of reincarnation, and life with the help of human relationships and interactions, mainly through the institution of marriage.

THE MYSTERY OF DEATH

Death as a phenomenon baffles many of us. Many of us go to extreme lengths to avoid or avert death; they join secret societies, others engage in prayers. The first death ever to occur was that of Adam. The deep sleep God put him under so as to create Eve was death.


TO BE CONTINUED……

ud4u:
My brother how can you be in a congregation where they call a man God, God forbid. My dear brother make haste and come out from among them and accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Saviour and it shall be well with in Jesus Name Amen.

Ud4u - Thanks for your concern, but since you raise the issue about calling a man God, was Christ a stone? Part of the accusations levied against Christ was that he being a man, made himself equal to God!

His reply to this accusation lies in Psalm 82: 6; I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. This equally applies to every human being, because our Father is God we his children are gods. Just like a child whose parents are king and queen, automatically making the child or children prince and princesses.

Man is God in action. If you place man in a barren land, before you know it in a matter of time all sorts of infrastructure will spring up.  God manifests himself through man, because man represents God on earth.

ikeyman00:
k right i agree with u. i got my words from the source very very close to the man himself. very very close, !! so so far i will say u right. i evn have the chance to watch vedios of some kind of praisin, singin in your base in calabar

as for the problem, yes i did notice some kind of all of a sudden ur pastors are fightin eachother, who controls the money, hmm 419; how they will share the money

so do u know people that have seen him physically away from calabar then

Ikeyman00 - You are right on the money! Everything about brother Roland and his group is all about money! The lady who came to this thread seeking for help with her uncle drew attention to the fact that all the money her uncle has it being given to "brotherhood", what she didn't know, which I discovered after talking with her uncle, is that he belongs to the brother Roland group!

Unfortunately, I realised that I can be of no help to this woman since her uncle already belongs in the wrong group.  Money and all the trimmings is what matters to them, but their time is short lived.

The amazing thing about Olumba is that despite what is considered norm for church leaders and most leaders in an organisation, he owns nothing, but yet he has everything!

He owns no car or vehicle! He has never had need for any!

He own no fancy clothes! All he owns are white shorts, white vests, and soutanes, and all these were made in Nigeria! He does not even own a pair of slippers or shoes!

The people Olumba reveals himself to lavishly, are usually those who have never met him. This incident happened around 1986 and 1989, in London, Mill Hill.

Mill Hill is a predominantly white rich area, where brotherhood happens to have a bethel and close by to this bethel is a church full of nuns. One day a brotherhood member decided that she would pay these

nuns a visit so as to fellowship with them.  Through the course of their conversation, one of the nuns came back with the sister to see the bethel and then she exclaimed when she saw Olumba's picture!

She said that's the man who has been coming to teach them daily for some time.  This was how we got to know about Olumba revealing himself to the nuns.

There are many such stories all around the world.  Many non Nigerians and white people have testified to knowing Olumba from childhood. They claim he has been teaching them from a tender age about

God, hence when they now come into contact with a brotherhood member, they share their story with us and usually become members.

This also is my story and how I came to accept brotherhood and Olumba.

ikeyman00:
ooo member dnt pretend that u didnt see my post! so me waitin as usual

wuciwug

Ikeyman00 - (lol) Wetin now bros! I didn't think you wanted a response, but here goes,

ikeyman00:
well this is what i know from the source close to your brotherhood

i was told the deceased pope john paul will be the last! believe it or not

2 most of them beleive the world will be over in 2000 hence they wasnt gona build any house

3 they are vegetarian, can't even kill house fly in their house, dnt take medicine neither beleive it o not!

OOO himself yes is a spirit, he never leave calabar physically, but he travel to london in spirit, and they sees himself everytime he come around

etc etc

I know nothing about this "prophesy" regarding the pope, and quite honestly, I doubt is veracity.

On the world coming to an end in 2000, this false understanding stemmed from some brotherhood members reading meaning into Olumba's words. A number of years ago Olumba said something spectacular will happen in 1999.  Some members dedicated books to the subject with elaborate write ups. They wrote with authority and no one challenged any of these books, not even Olumba himself (which you will find baffling as I did a point in time). Only thing Olumba maintained was that something spectacular would happen.

Most brotherhood members were shocked by the series of events that took place during the end of 1999 into the year 2000.  Brother Roland Obu took steps to remove his father Olumba Olumba Obu and enthroned himself King of Kings! Almost immediately, there was a separation between brotherhood members. Many followed brother Roland, while others like me remained with Olumba.

Despite all these occurrences, Olumba still remains calm and says nothing.  He says nothing simply because he teaches us to allow evil take its course and constantly reminds us not to resist an evil doer.

He teaches that there is a time, a season  and a purpose to everything under the sun. Hence if you prevent anything from running its natural course, you are bound to cause a much worse situation than already being experienced.

See my previous posts above regarding vegetarianism.

OOO is in human form, yet is able to be seen lavishly around the world, but he only reveals himself to those he chooses.

nuzo:
I really do not give a damn about what dumb religious fanatics worship.
However, i must confess that i distance myself from this ooo members because my uncle was a member and died mysteriously in his room after refusing to go to hospital.
Since he joined the ooo; he became totally a different person, disassociated himself from his family and friends. Good thing he made up with his family days before his death.(he must have known his death was near)
The organization seems to be like 'the more you get in, the harder it is to re-access yourself personally. Death seems to be the only way out.

Nuzo - Sorry about the loss of your uncle. But I must say that its easy to blame anyone for anything if you are already biased towards the person, thing or organisation in question.

I called into brotherhood 24 years ago, when I was only 17 years old. Within a few days of becoming a member, my parents kicked up a fuss and wanted me to stop attending brotherhood.

I was given the choice to stop attending brotherhood or leave home! And I was happy and willing to leave home considering what had been revealed to me about brotherhood, but the members through

whom I got baptised advised me not to leave home, simply because I did not need to attend the church in order to be a true member, but rather I should let my family see the changes in me and then they

will know that there is something unique and good about brotherhood.

This is the brotherhood I know! As with every organisation, there will be those who go to one extreme or the other, owing to how they choose to see and understand things.

Often times the individual is to blame.

I know many folks, young and old who have left brotherhood and they are still alive and well and have nothing against brotherhood other than that we call Olumba God!

There is no compulsion for anyone to remain a brotherhood member. If I so choose I am free to leave brotherhood without fear of any repercussion.

So go figure!

May kelly:
ooo is not a church, it is a secret cult. ooo is not God neither nor Jesus, ooo is simply a goddess in calabar. Woe to his followers! how blind they are! they have eyes but cannot see, ears cannot hear, noise cannot breath, head without understanding and wisdom.

May Kelly – Wow! Seeing that you write with so much authority and conviction, I will assume that you know exactly what you are talking about and you write from experience and you are obviously welcome to your opinions, but It would be beneficiary to everyone if you can share your first hand knowledge of your experience or contact with brotherhood, this way you can back up your assertions.

You won’t be the first or neither the last to think or speak evil about brotherhood. Let’s hope for your sake this isn’t a case similar to Saul who later became Paul after persecuting and killing Christians.
But remember! And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God

I have taken it upon myself to provide you with attributes of a cult.

25 Attributes of a Cult:
by Anonymous

25 ATTRIBUTES OF A CULT:

This list is taken from a college course called “The Psychology of Fundamentalism” offered by the University of Texas

1. the leader is charismatic and often militaristically demanding
2. the leader is always right
3. elitism, the leaders treated as royalty or a sense of awe, hierarchical, authoritarian power structure
4. lower members get no respect, or get abused
5. leader is not held accountable for his actions or the actions of his authority structure
6. leader will not tolerate or receive criticism, but leader criticizes all others
7. there is no exit (There is always an exit - it’s the same doors you came in!!)
8. if members exit they are considered rebellious, out of the will of a higher power or the leader
9. members do not have any association with members that have left the group
10. there are no graduates from the “program” or group, just deserters or evil people
11. there is cult speak (a language many others can not understand)
12. personal attacks on critics or those who are not in the group
13. solidarity within themselves, no outside allegiance or association
14. use of guilt to manipulate members (I don’t carry guilt so I can’t relate to this.)
15. the leaders of group are self absorbed
16. instant community
17. members unable to tell the truth
18. money grubbing
19. newcomers don’t “think right” and need to be trained
20. system of punishment and reward
21. intrusiveness
22. sense of powerless, dependency, covert fear, guilt
23. members and leaders are imbalanced or mentally ill
24. thought stopping language, clichés, or slogans
25. demands of ultra loyalty or ultra trust in the groups process and others
WOW!! It’s so interesting to look back and consider the churches that we’ve come through over the years. In thinking specifically of the one of the two main churches we were involved in here in San Antonio - I can’t believe how many of these “qualities” are “spot on!” I bolded the qualities which were, to me, obviously present in that church body. Others who defected from the church may highlight all of them, or not the same ones as I. It would, of course, depend on your mental state (how deprogrammed or programmed are you) and your experiences in the cult and once you left the cult, and of course your ability to use Godly discernment in these matters. Present members will be able to defend themselves against all these charges. I, however, can think of specific examples of how these attritbutes correctly describe the “Standard Operating Procedures” of the cult that we spent 4 years fellowshipping with.

How To Identify A Cult:
http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/250-how-to-identify-a-cult
http://soulhunter.net/cult-ID.htm

**** Is OOO still alive?
**** If yes, how old is he? If no, when did he die, and where are his remains?

I will start off by answering your questions, before proceeding to explain my understanding of these questions.

Olumba is alive and he is 90 years old. But to reverse your question, is Christ alive or dead? If alive, how old is he? If Christ is not dead, have you seen him? If you happened to run into Christ on the streets today, how would identify/recognise him? If he has not been seen, and yet he is alive, does this make him dead?

I will assume that the questions you ask about Olumba being dead or alive were brought about by rumours of Olumba’s demise. These rumours have existed for many years. Therefore, based on these rumours, it is assumed that if Olumba is alive, he can’t live forever, and then he will die at some point.  Now once he is dead, then this supposedly, confirms that he is not God as claimed!
These rumours and line of questioning, draws attention to the need to understand the true nature of man, who or what God is, and the mystery of death.

What is God’s true nature?  God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth (John 4: 24).  Can any man (flesh) see God in his spirit form?  No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him (John 1:18). Bottom line, flesh cannot reveal the spirit, but the Spirit can reveal itself to the flesh.

What we have established above is that when God is in spirit form, the only way he can be seen is if we are also in spirit form.  So how does this fit in with other parts of the bible which tells us that we will see him in person? For this answer, we will turn to Genesis 1: 26 – 27. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

What we learn here is how God created a home to house the spirit while it journeys here on earth. Or rather, how God created “clothing” for the spirit. By so doing, God made it possible for spirits to take physical abode here on earth. We are also told in Genesis about how God walked in the cool of the day, and could be seen.  Which begs the question, why could he been seen?  The answer, “Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews” (Job 10:11).  The “me” being referred to, is the spirit, clothed with flesh.

When God is on earth he takes human form.  How else could he be able to walk and be seen?  This is why God proclaims,” …The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? And where is the place of my rest? Isaiah 66: 1.

The heaven is God’s throne because on earth he is a man.  The heaven represents or is symbolic of the mind of man where thoughts emanate from, which is the seat or throne of consciousness.  The earth is his footstool, because he walks or moves about with his feet, which rests upon the earth, thereby making it his footstool.

God is a spirit and being created in his image makes us spirits and his likeness in us is our human form. If all that man truly had is a physical existence, it would confirm the bible passage that says, For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten (Ecclesiastes 9:5).

But, what is not immediately evident to most of us that read the bible, as evident from this current extract from Ecclesiates, is that everything from Genesis to Revelations has a chronological order or sequence of events or occurrences meant to reflect the understanding of that period or point in time.  These sequences of events are synonymous with our spiritual growth and understanding, similar to stages which psychologists identify as stages of development.  These stages range from infancy into adulthood.

According to psychologists, each stage between infancy to adulthood takes into account our physiological and psychological development. What these stages do not take into account is our spiritual development, which from God’s point of view, is predestined and interwoven with our physiological and psychological growth.

See the story of Esau and Jacob (Genesis 25:23, Romans 9: 10 - 16), the story of Elijah, predestined to prepare the way for God’s coming (Mlachi 4: 5 – 6).  In Romans 8: 28 – 30, we are made aware that God knew us before conception and that he has predestined those of us he has chosen, to have Christ-like qualities.

Starting off with the story of creation, Adam and Eve, represent man at infancy.  At infancy, we are surrounded by immense knowledge, information, understanding and wisdom, yet despite all at our disposal, we remain helpless in the midst of power.

To all intents and purposes, Adam and Eve were new born babies with the intellect and understanding reflecting infancy.  Putting things into proper perspective, Adam and Eve could not have done anything other than what all babies do, which is to do exactly what they are told not to do! They lacked the wisdom or ability to discern right from wrong, or good from evil. Life was an experiment for them. They were and we all are at infancy, discoverers and seekers eager to experience our immediate surroundings. And like all parents with their babies, all Adam and Eve had, was God to direct and guide them.
When we were all born into this world, we were oblivious to the perils that surround us. We had no understanding either of good and evil and there was no way any of our parents could communicate their wisdom, knowledge or understanding to us. We all learnt, to a greater extent, by experiencing, giving rise to the popular saying, experience is the best teacher.

Hence, just like our earthly parents cannot hand down their wisdom and understanding to us, so also could God not hand down his knowledge, wisdom or understanding to us his creation and children. Parents all know that no matter how much we as parents try to protect and guide our babies, we cannot prevent them from seeking knowledge and understanding. We cannot stop them from experiencing the yearning or thirst for knowledge.

It should be clear to us by now that wisdom cannot be handed down like an inheritance from father to son. It is earned! So, yes, God did create us in his image and likeness which makes us gods (with a small ‘g’), since he our father is God, but it was not and is not possible for God to just hand us similar powers to his! If God had done that with Adam and Eve, mankind would have ceased to exist a long time ago. Why, you might ask? Because such an act would be tantamount to handing a baby a loaded gun to play with!  It’s either the baby hurts itself or someone else, period!

Synonymous with man’s birth since creation, is human evolution. Man has evolved from one age (ie, Stone age) to the next, each time advancing, growing and evolving.  This is all possible with the help of reincarnation.

Reincarnation to God is the stages of growth or development from infancy to adulthood to us, man.  Hence, if you can understand our process physiological and psychological growth, you can then begin to understand how God has used the process of reincarnation to ensure human evolution, progress and growth. We are continually moving forward in time with our spiritual understanding and growth.
At infancy, a child can see its parents unclothedness and be privy to their most private and secret moments. As time goes on, we move from infancy to being toddlers, to preschool etc. The point being that for every stage of our development, our ability to absorb, withhold, digest and make sense of knowledge, information and understanding was limited.

I reckon there no better time than now to correct the impression/belief/understanding most Christians have about the bible.  The bible is not and has never been handed down a complete book. It’s a collection of “works” inspired /revealed by God, doctored by those who translated from the original scripts! Their futile attempt on one level was ungodly, while on another level, their ignorance of spiritual things and having no clue of the reasoning behind God’s actions, which to them seems to lack moral fibre, gave them the courage to edit the translation of the ancient manuscripts.

A situation that only people with a foreign language can truly appreciate is the inability to translate exactly, the true meaning of a message conveyed in a foreign language! Something vital about the information is always lost! When this is not a problem, knowing the exact thoughts behind a word, the feelings and intent being conveyed is not exactly easy.  This is almost like the Chinese whispers phenomenon: it shows how easily information being passed from person to the next can become distorted.

God did inspire and reveal the contents of the bible, but so much crucial information is absent/missing or deliberately being excluded. Read the preface of most bibles, but essentially, get a copy of THE LOST BOOKS OF THE BIBLE AND THE FORGOTTEN BOOKS OF EDEN – (1926) Publisher – Meridan. Here, you will find information crucial to our understanding of God and why various councils saw it fit not to have them included in the bible.  There are/were a group of people whose “job” is to decide what goes in or stays out of the bible! Did God give them this “authority”?

Returning to the nature of God and therefore the nature of man, since God is a spirit, and we are also spirits, we cannot die.  Contrary to the belief of some Christians, reincarnation as a phenomenal was widely accepted and acknowledged as evident in the bible.  Take for example the words of God, when he says, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living (Matthew 22:32).

Again Christ confirms this, But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God (Luke 9:27). If you consider the above statements, it’s either Christ deliberately lied, was deluded or was talking from his understanding of the process of reincarnation.  Christ used the simply analogy of planting corn to explain the process of reincarnation. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Simply put, when the flesh dies, the sprit which inhabited the body multiplies. Similar to planting a small piece of yam which after decomposes goes on to become 6 or 7 ears of yam.
Having established that God is a spirit that takes on human form to exist on earth, what role does death play in the grand scheme of things? Death is an essential part of our spiritual growth and advancement, which involves the process of reincarnation.  With reincarnation God’s will on us and for us is fulfilled. Reincarnation and the laws of karma were considered part and parcel of everyday existence and was accepted as norm.  It did not require teaching.

Below are some excerpts from the bible on karma and reincarnation:

Psa 9:16 The LORD is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. Higgaion. Selah. (Karma)

Prov 6:27 Can a man take fire in his bosom, and his clothes not be burned? (Karma 27-28)

Prov 24:12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works? (Karma)

Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. (Reincarnation)

Jer 25:14 For many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of them also: and I will recompense them according to their deeds, and according to the works of their own hands. (Karma)

Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: (Reincarnation - John the Baptist was Elijah.)

Mat 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. (Reincarnation when Elias returned as John the Baptist.)

Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. (Karma)

Mat 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. (Reincarnation)

Mat 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. Mat 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Mat 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist. (Reincarnation)

John 8:15 Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. (Without knowing what someone's karma is, how can one judge another?)

John 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? (This is an open reference to the Law of Rebirth - Reincarnation - "This man" could only have caused his sin if karma were in effect.)

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. (Reincarnation - The law of rebirth may come to an end to those who overcome this earth - become a Master of the planet.)

In case anyone was wondering why John the Baptist was beheaded, it wasn’t because someone asked for his head, but to fulfil the laws of karma, about those who live by the sword, dying by the sword, or what you sow is what you reap.  As Elijah the prophet, he had the prophets of Baal killed, after proving to the people that his God was Lord.  (See Kings 18: 40)

Why did the Jews suffer at the hands of Hitler? When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it. Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

How can you account for the suffering of the Jews without taking into account the curse they placed on themselves? Without reincarnation and karma in existence anyone can get away with anything.
No one can escape the law of karma! If you don’t pay now, you’ll pay later!

Consider your stance on reincarnation; if you choose to refute reincarnation you make a liar out of God! Christ himself said, Verily I say unto you, “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom”(Mat 16:28). Are these people still alive, as they were when Christ made this statement? Whose kingdom and how will they see it, unless they are alive to witness it? The only logical answer is that through the process of reincarnation, these same people are alive today!

Dead or alive (in human form), God is a being that cannot be known in the flesh.  What constitutes God is not how we perceive him physically, but how we know him spiritually. And no one can know him spiritually, if he, God does not first reveal himself to you. Our physical form, existence and sinful nature are a limitation and a hindrance to us truly knowing God in the flesh.

Matthew 13: 11 – 12 (KJV)

He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.  12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV)

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 13:9-10 (KJV)


9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

The one that is to come that is perfect is God himself! Hence, since his purpose is to bring us into the accurate knowledge of truth, whatever truth he has to impart to us will be such like we have never heard before.

The problems anyone might have with the teachings of the Holy Spirit here in brotherhood is simply that they cannot comprehend it because “(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day” (Romans 11: 8 )

Remember, with every change in government comes a change in law. The prophets came and each had their own law and way of doing things. Christ came and there was an uprising against him simply because his teachings did not conform to the teachings of the prophets, rather his teachings went beyond the prophets to be considered radical and unacceptable.  Worthy of note is that Christ’s understanding was much deeper than they could comprehend.  Now, during this advent of the Holy Spirit, why would you expect his teachings to be a repetition of Christ’s teachings?
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law (Hebrews 7:11). The priesthood in this instance is that of the Holy Spirit, who has come to lead us into the kingdom of God.

God is a being that we all claim to believe is Omnipresent (present everywhere), Omnipotent (all powerful) and Omniscient (all knowing).  Yet our actions betray this belief.  God cannot be known in the flesh, only in the spirit. We fight for God like his an invalid. We speak on his behalf like he is dumb!
Do not think that because our understanding is limited, God is also limited by being in human form. God in human form is not a mere mortal like you and I.
The concept of death is something that has continued to baffle many.  Different religions have different ways of explaining death, but there is an element of truth in the differing views about God, death, after life, reincarnation, re-birth or seeing the whole concept as a continuous cycle.


[b]*** From here, could one summarise that some Brotherhood members may believe that OOO is God the Father himself in the flesh?
Once again, as previously answered, my answer is yes, and like I also said previously you will only know and accept this if it has been revealed to you, personally.

Matthew 16: 17[/b]

17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.


*** Is OOO the Holy Spirit?
The Comforter promised by Christ, is the Holy Spirit and since we believe Olumba to be the Comforter, so yes he is the Holy Spirit.


*** Is OOO the Holy Spirit?

The Comforter promised by Christ, is the Holy Spirit and since we believe Olumba to be the Comforter, so yes he is the Holy Spirit.

*** It appears my question is yet unanswered.
*** Has OOO ever taught that salvation can be attained by obeying instructions from him (along with the teachings of the Holy Spirit)?

No!

***I agree that humans were initially vegans/vegetarian; but permission to eat meat was granted after Noah's flood.

When we were babies we took milk, but now that we have become adults our diet changes. As we grow physically our metabolism slows down and we are advised to eat more healthily.  Similarly, as we grow spiritually, we also start to realise that certain foods are not good for us, but their is no law preventing you from eating what you like or choose to.

*** It appears that being vegan/vegetarian is a "higher" level encouragement in the Brotherhood; what is the reason for this?

Brotherhood members are not encouraged to become vegetarians or vegans. We are taught that Brotherhood is the sum total of all God’s creation.  Man, animals, sun, moon, stars and all things animate and inanimate.

All of God’s creations are meant to co-exist in harmony.  Part of Co-existing in harmony means not killing animals for food, since God exists in all creation.
Besides living in harmony with all God’s creation, abstinence from various things like alcohol, and not eating meat helps ones spiritual awareness, which is explained in my previous post.

  *** All these seem clear. But, there's a detail: is there a limit to the quantity of alcohol? I ask because alcohol is present in several foods.

Yes, it’s a known fact that there are trace alcohol present in several foods, its quantity does not matter.  We are not fanatic about anything in brotherhood. If such foods and drinks can be avoided, then they will be but we don’t go about checking alcohol levels is foods we eat. This highlights the reason why it’s important to bless food before eating.

*** All this is clear. Yet, my question remains, er, unanswered. I will – going forward – assume that any member of OOO's family who're involved in the Brotherhood have met the high requirements you mentioned about. But, could you tell what roles the members of his family have played, and what/who these family members are?

The only important role in the grand scheme of things is held by Sister Helen Obu. She is the Secretary General and the Head of Administration and Sole signatory to all brotherhood documents.

The other role is held by Brother Roland Obu.  His role is unlawful, un-brotherhood and self made.  He fancies himself to be Olumba’s replacement and has since crowned himself King of kings!!!
For this reason he has created his own fraction in brotherhood which he leads.  Everything they do is contrary to the teachings of Olumba Olumba Obu and the tenets of Brotherhood of the Cross & Star.

*** Could you give examples of the major prophecies that OOO have pronounced that have come to pass?
*** Could you give examples of prophecies given by those approved by OOO that have come to pass?

*** Could you give examples of such prophecies that have had national and world impact?

*** Could you give examples of prophecies by OOO or those approved by OOO that should be fulfilled in the near and not-so-near future?


I intend to answer the above questions collectively.

These are the few I can recall for the moment, but I will add more as we go along;
Immediately after the last coup by Abacha, Olumba pronounced their will be no more coups in Nigeria. He said if any attempt or plan a coup, not only will they fail, but that they will not get away unpunished.
During the Nigerian/Cameroun problems, he pronounced that there will be no war.
He pronounced the release of Mandela.
He said pronounced that when Nigeria celebrates its 60th independence anniversary, Nigeria would be a place to be reckoned with. He said Nigerian currency will be the strongest in the world, and that Nigeria will be the place everyone is scrambling to live. He said if you own land in Nigeria, hold on to it, if you don’t go and get some because a time will come soon when to find land to buy will be almost impossible and scarce.
Some years ago, he said America will have a black president, but he did not give a time frame.




Additional questions:

13) Is there a body of documented teachings by OOO and/or the Brotherhood?

Yes.


14) What do true Brotherhood members think of other Christians?

We are all one and the same.

15) Do true Brotherhood members use charms, amulets, and other such items?
No

16) Do Brotherhood members pray? If yes, in what format?

Prayer start and end this way:

Let thanks and praises be given to God in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Let honour and praises by given to God, through the precious blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Let dominion, power, might, adoration and strength by given to God, even now and forever more. Amen


***I agree that humans were initially vegans/vegetarian; but permission to eat meat was granted after Noah's flood.

When we were babies we took milk, but now that we have become adults our diet changes. As we grow physically our metabolism slows down and we are advised to eat more healthily.  Similarly, as we grow spiritually, we also start to realise that certain foods are not good for us, but their is no law preventing you from eating what you like or choose to.

*** It appears that being vegan/vegetarian is a "higher" level encouragement in the Brotherhood; what is the reason for this?
Brotherhood members are not encouraged to become vegetarians or vegans. We are taught that Brotherhood is the sum total of all God’s creation.  Man, animals, sun, moon, stars and all things animate and inanimate.

All of God’s creations are meant to co-exist in harmony.  Part of Co-existing in harmony means not killing animals for food, since God exists in all creation.
Besides living in harmony with all God’s creation, abstinence from various things like alcohol, and not eating meat helps ones spiritual awareness, which is explained in my previous post.

  *** All these seem clear. But, there's a detail: is there a limit to the quantity of alcohol? I ask because alcohol is present in several foods.
Yes, it’s a known fact that there are trace alcohol present in several foods, its quantity does not matter.  We are not fanatic about anything in brotherhood. If such foods and drinks can be avoided, then they will be but we don’t go about checking alcohol levels is foods we eat. This highlights the reason why it’s important to bless food before eating.

*** All this is clear. Yet, my question remains, er, unanswered. I will – going forward – assume that any member of OOO's family who're involved in the Brotherhood have met the high requirements you mentioned about. But, could you tell what roles the members of his family have played, and what/who these family members are?
The only important role in the grand scheme of things is held by Sister Helen Obu. She is the Secretary General and the Head of Administration and Sole signatory to all brotherhood documents.

Once again, before I continue with answering the questions asked, I must point out that unless the Holy Spirit gives enlightenment, no one can fully comprehend neither appreciate the ways of God.

Matthew 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

1 Corinthians 1:25:
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

The bottom line is this, the promised Comforter is meant to expound upon the mysteries of the bible, just like Christ came to “fulfill” the law. Fulfilling the law, from Christ’s point of view, meant moving the consciousness and understanding of the people from the outdated ways of understanding and worshipping God. This also gives us some insights into the long awaited government of the Comforter. Bearing this in mind, why would you expect him to regurgitate the teachings of Christ?

Hi Niaralanders/Nimshi

once again, I would like to apologise for the delay in responding to posts. I have been having serious computer problems in addition to work constraints.

Please bear with me, as I will respond to posts as time permits.

Nimshi considering the nature of your questions, I cannot respond as fast as you are able to come up with them, so please bear with me.

Thanks for even bothering to ask, and not assume what you have heard is truth. If anything, I will either confirm these rumours or lay them to rest.

*** What is the scriptural basis for calling him God?
*** What is the scriptural basis for calling OOO the Holy Spirit?

I will treat these two questions as one and the same.

Let’s rephrase your second question: What is the scriptural basis for calling Christ God? My response; whatever scriptural extract that can be produced to support our Lord Jesus Christ as the being been prophesied about before his actual coming, can equally be disputed, by those lacking spiritual understanding! After all the orthodox Jews maintain that Christ is yet to come, talk less of being the son of God!

The following bible passages confirm/answers questions about the basis of referring to Olumba as God or the Holy Spirit. But then again, isn’t this a futile exercise?

What these texts point to is the fact that someone is to come, not a spirit, but a person! You don’t have to accept that Olumba is the one been referred to, but that at least someone will come.

If someone is to come, he has to be born, if he has to be born, he needs to come through the womb of a woman. This means whoever this being is will go through the pains of childhood into adulthood! Remember this being is supposed to teach, guide and lead us, which means that he will live amongst us.

Consider Daniel 2: 1 – end, but more specifically verse 44:

And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Now, considering the fact that God is supposed to set up his kingdom on earth and not leave anyone else in charge of it, who else but God will govern his kingdom?

For this same reason Christ gave the parable of the wicked husbandmen. The Lord of the vineyard being spoken about is God. He sent his prophets and then his Son. Finally he himself had to come to put things straight.

Another key text that helps clarify things is Acts 1: 10 – 11. The angel asks the disciples, why do you stand gazing into the sky? That is to say the answers you seek do not lie in staring at the skies. The same way you see him go is the same way he will return, which many think means he will descend from the sky, but the actual meaning is that as he ascended in human form, he will also return in human form!

How do we verify that Christ ascended in the flesh? After his resurrection, it was no longer possible for those who previously knew him to identify him. One of two things had happened if not both, after the resurrection he was now operating from a higher spiritual plane which required ones eyes to be opened spiritually so as to identify him and Christ took on a new appearance and not the appearance his disciples were used too. This was why Thomas asked to be shown the crucifixion marks. He also did touch the wounds, only then did they truly recognise Christ.

The point here is that they saw and physically touched Christ, confirming that he ascended in physical form.

John 14:16 (KJV)

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

John 14:26 (KJV)

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 (KJV)

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7 (KJV)

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Luke 17:20-26 (KJV)

20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

Acts 1:10-11 (KJV)

10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Revelation 2:17 (KJV)

17He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 12:5 (KJV)

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Revelation 19:11-15 (KJV)

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Revelation 21:1-5 (KJV)

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

*** What was OOO's reaction to being called God by his true followers?

As explained previously in my last post, Olumba does not have any reaction to being called any name whatsoever. Whatever name you choose to call him, either God, demon, devil or prophet, means nothing to him. He remains impervious to whatever name you call him. Remember, Christ had no cause or compulsion to respond to the various names he was given.

As we embark upon this journey of enquiry, certain things need to be made clear. We need to know or have an idea of our destination. To do this requires that we know where we are starting from. Everyone is curious about God for different reasons, but many do not realise that we need to look at God in the past, to enable us learn about God in the present. In Malachi 3: 6, God says, “I am the Lord, I change not, ” that is to say God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

In so many ways God is an enigma, likewise the bible which is an authority on God, is the most enigmatic book ever written. Unknown to many people, the bible contains secrets and mysteries that are yet to be revealed to the world. Some of these secrets and mysteries have already been revealed to a chosen few.

Consider the various Christian denominations in existence; their very existence confirms that so much confusion surrounds the knowledge and understanding of God’s existence. Now go a step further to the existence of various religions and then it becomes much more apparent that so much confusion abounds about this being called God.

One thing is quite certain beyond all doubt, without the guidance of the Holy Spirit no one can truly claim to have any understanding about God. If you are not spiritually inclined, going by the contents of the bible, all that you will find are reasons to denounce the existence of God. Take a brief walk through the Nairaland religious section threads and you will find reasons why it’s almost pointless having an enlightened informed discussion with anyone about God! People’s beliefs and understanding vary, if not conflict!

To cite an example; Is Satan Really As Bad As The Christian Smear Campaign Makes Him Out To Be? Reading through threads like these, it becomes quite apparent and essential, like Christ pointed out, that we need to be spiritually inclined if we are to know God.

To those who still wonder about the existence of God, anything and everything you cannot see, but yet exists, can be considered a spiritual thing. The thoughts you think are spiritual in nature and come into being when we act upon them. Look around you! The chair you sit on, the computer you are reading from all used to be a thought until they were given a physical existence by us creating them.

This act of creating something out of “nothing” the nothing being our thoughts is a trait we share with God. If you can comprehend the nature or existence of thoughts, then you can comprehend the existence of God.

One crucial point to note is that Christ did not intend to establish any religion. His goal was to reunite man to God. Hence, he came to teach us a way of life and not how to be religious.

In knowing God, who can decipher the reasoning behind his actions? Who knows why he does what he does? Does God need man’s approval for his actions? Does God need to consult man before taking any action?

God’s wisdom is foolishness to man, so how can the created know better than the Creator? How can the finite comprehend the infinite?

God tells us through Isaiah that our thoughts are not his thoughts. Likewise his ways are not our ways, because his thoughts are higher than our thoughts, and his ways are higher than our ways (Isaiah 55: 7 – 9).

Bearing the above in mind, how do we then proceed by using our limited knowledge and understanding to comprehend something that is infinite?
Consider this; God sent Moses to Pharaoh to let his people go, but this same God also hardened Pharaoh’s heart to resist the will of God. And since God hardened Pharaoh’s heart, can he be blamed for his actions?

This same God revealed to Joseph that he would be elevated high above his parents and siblings. The manner in which God fulfilled this pronouncement on Joseph was by making his siblings hate him to the point of that they were willing to murder him but this same God made them consider the fact that they stood to gain more if he was sold into slavery. Through slavery, Joseph became the Governor of Egypt.

God made sure only Joseph could interpret the dreams of Pharaoh, which he, God had given to the Pharaoh, but he made sure Pharaoh was tormented enough to seek the interpretation of the dream. Now, would you or can you blame Joseph’s siblings for their actions?

Now consider the story of Jacob and Esau, before their birth God had already determined that the older will serve the younger. Esau first sold his birthright. Then the time came for Esau to be blessed, but their mother helped Jacob “steal” Esau’s blessing.

Now consider this: What wrong did Esau do in selling his birthright for food? What wrong did their mother do in helping Jacob “steal” Esau’s blessings?
If you consider these stories, you will ultimately realise that God does not give us anything on a platter of gold. Whatever he promises us, we have to earn. Similarly, if there is a lesson to be learnt, he allows us to acquire the understanding, knowledge and wisdom practically.

For example, if you pray for patience, God will not give you patience. Rather, he gives you opportunities to learn how to be patience. And those opportunities will not necessarily be nice ones!

This is the God we worship.

What does it mean to call OOO God?
*** What is the scriptural basis for calling him God?
*** What is the scriptural basis for calling OOO the Holy Spirit?
*** What was OOO's reaction to being called God by his true followers?


What does it mean to call OOO God?

Before the crucifixion of Christ, he asked his disciples a probing question, he asked, who do the people say I am? They replied, some say John the Baptist, some Jeremiah, Elijah, and some say prophet.

He then asked, who do you say I am? Simon Peter answered and said, you are the Christ, Son of the living God.
Christ responded by saying flesh and blood could not have revealed this to you but my Father in heaven. He then commanded his disciples not to tell anyone what had been revealed to them (Mat 16: 13 – 20)

On a similar note, Paul equally points out that only a man knows the secrets men. Likewise only God knows his secrets. (1 Corinthians 2: 11)
As can be seen from the above, God does not reveal himself to the masses! He selects those to whom he reveals his secrets to.

Now, you ask me, what it means to call Olumba God. But my answers will mean nothing to you since the understanding I have was revealed personally to me and to those who know what they know. Just like the personal revelation to Christ’s disciples.

Calling Olumba God means the exact same thing it means to anyone and everyone that believes in God. Especially since I believe that we all worship the same God but we identify him differently. One simple but crucial fact I believe most Christians seem to ignore or are ignorant of, is that there is only one God in existence, regardless of the name God is called or the religion!

Let it be known that we all worship a living God and we live in a spiritual world, as much as we exist in a physical world. Any being without the authority to command all spirits, and such a being is called God, will surely fall!

If Olumba Olumba Obu is not who we believe him to be in brotherhood, then he will surely fall and fail! No one can take up the name or role of God without being God! It is a sure recipe for the disaster and the quick demise of any such fool, foolish enough to be called God when he isn’t.

Consider this simple example given in the bible:

Acts 19: 15 – 16 (KJV)

15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

As you can see, evil spirits do not respond to the command, recognise or fear those without the light in them. In this particular instance, these were Jews whom had no spirit of God in them, neither had they been anointed or appointed by God to have power over evil or every ungodly spirit.
I make bold to say that if Olumba Olumba Obu is false, in any sense of the word, then a faith worse than that of the Jews would have befallen him by now!

Regardless of whatever name you choose to call God or identify him as, regardless of the language or path you choose, God remains one and the same.

All - I reckon that if I wait until I have sufficient time to respond to Nimshi's questions, It will take a long time before I respond.

So I've decided to take it one step at a time, owing to time constraints.

The questions to you might seem simple and straightforward, but the required answers are not.

So here goes,

Chrisbenogor:
Me I have learnt loads too oh , the only thing I knew was that they used to do weird things so whenever I saw them doing some sort of fellowship I was always on the look out for funny stuff.

Please to add to nimshi's questions about alcohol why is that of alcohol encouraged and the instructions to stone people who do not obey certain commandments fail to be enforced?

I think you have misunderstood Nimshi's post. Stoning has to do with Islam, while alcohol drinking is an individual choice.

All - My sincere apologies for the delay in responding to Nimshi's questions.

Work and family commitments have not permitted me to respond as quickly as I would have liked to.

I will endeavour to respond before Wednesday, by God's grace.

Nimshi:
Hi again wuciwug: thanks for your response. It is encouraging to hear that you're willing to address things in the open. Some of the question could sound ridiculous, but I hope you'D bear up. The questioning may also appear to be random, I hope you'D be able to accommodate that; this is no interrogation . . .

1) Is it true that you guys enter your places of worship with your backs facibg the door?
2) Follow-up on 1): have there been occasions where the backside-in style is ever done?
3) Did Olumba Olumba Obu (henceforth OOO) pronounce himself God and/or one fo the Trinity?
4) Is it true that for over 50 years OOO never left the premises of the Brotherhood place of worship in Calabar?
5) Is it correct that OOO taught that since Jesus had only 3 years for his ministry on earth, it was not possible for many other things to be revealed and that he, OOO, embodies other revelations?
6) Did OOO teach that salvation can be attained by obeying instructions from himself?
7) I understand that members of the Brotherhood must be vegans/vegetarians; is this true? If yes, why?
8 ) What about the consumption of alcohol and alcoholic beverages, is this allowed?
9) What about medicines? Are (some) common medicines restricted? If yes, why?
10) What about injections: intravenous and/or intramuscular? Are these restricted?
11) What roles ahev the members of OOO's family played within the brotherhood?
12) Has OOO and/or the Brotherhood made any unfulfilled prophecies?

Let's stop at 12, it being a special number
.

Nimshi – Before I proceed to answer you questions, you must realize somewhat that this could be a futile exercise, why? Most people will not comprehend my responses; neither will they find it acceptable. It’s almost impossible to convince anyone of anything (let alone a Christian trying to convince a Muslim of each others’ belief systems), all that can be done is to try to understand why someone has certain beliefs and not necessarily accept what they believe in.

Only God can open anyone’s heart to accept or find truth where all manner of preconceived notions, rumours and hearsay have taken root!

It’s important to remember that at the start, the followers of Christ had to hide and worship undercover. They could not openly pledge any allegiance to Christ. More still is the fact that Christ’s teachings were at variance with the teachings as upheld by the Scribes and the Pharisees.

Everything Christ stood for challenged everything the then “popular churches” represented by the Scribes, Pharisees and Sadducees.

To make sense of brotherhood requires understanding the role of Christ in respect to the Scribes and Pharisees. Christ was considered a radical. He was not accepted by “established religion”. Thousands of years later, we can now all openly claim Christ and pledge our allegiance to him. Now we can openly proclaim his name, which was not previously possible.

Contrary to popular belief, any and every gospel or teaching from Olumba is always based on the teachings of Christ and the contents of the bible. The unique difference about what Olumba does is that he expands on all of Christ’s teachings and the contents of the bible, taking spiritual understanding to a whole new level.

In my opinion, you can draw lines of comparison between brotherhood now and the followers of Christ then. We go against the grain and are considered radical and unacceptable by orthodox Christianity.
To the outsider, brotherhood is demonic, ungodly and anti-Christian, but to the true brotherhood member, we are true Christians following the teachings of Christ having being privileged to witness the manifestation of Christ’s teachings and prophesy.

True members of brotherhood are neither perfect nor saints, but we do try our best to live up to what we believe in. If you were not previously aware we were brotherhood members, you will easily find us acceptable. That is until you find out that we are brotherhood members. Any and all good done by a brotherhood member then becomes questionable and unacceptable! Why? Because when such a person or people find out that we are brotherhood, they find that they have to convince themselves that we are evil because accepting our good as good, means there is something good about brotherhood! And that in itself becomes unacceptable!

Now to your questions:

1. Is it true that you guys enter your places of worship with your backs facing the door?
2. Follow-up on 1): have there been occasions where the backside-in style is ever done?

There has never been any occasion where any true brotherhood member has had to enter backwards through any door, regardless of its location. It is not a brotherhood practice.

3. Did Olumba Olumba Obu (henceforth OOO) pronounce himself God and/or one of the Trinity?

Olumba has never pronounced himself God, but we his true followers have found reason to call him so based on the scriptures and individual revelations. It’s not a must that any call him God or that he be referred to as God, but when you encounter a being whose name puts fear in the heart of evil. What would you call such a being?

This is a simply case of by your faith you are healed. If to you Olumba is a man, he will operate as a man to you. If you think he is a prophet, to you he is a prophet.

One piece of Scripture I find consolation in, is Acts 5: 38 – 39. This has to do with the persecution of the Apostles by the Sadducees. They did not like the radical teachings being taught by the Apostles or their belief in Christ.

Acts 5:38-39 (New King James Version)

38 And now I say to you, keep away from these men and let them alone; for if this plan or this work is of men, it will come to nothing; 39 but if it is of God, you cannot overthrow it—lest you even be found to fight against God.”


Christ was and is the Almighty God we all pray to. He became human, and we received him as the Son of God. Not even his disciples knew who he truly was. Only a privileged few truly knew who Christ was/is.

Remember that till tomorrow the orthodox Jews still do not accept that God came in the flesh. Likewise Christ also said that until they accept that he Christ came in the flesh, a specific gate in Jerusalem will remain closed. That gate still stands till today.

Olumba never speaks about himself as God neither as the Holy Spirit. Neither did Christ ever refer to himself as God or the Holy Spirit or even the Creator, despite the fact that he was and is. Christ’s followers and disciples attributed or ascribed various titles to his deity, but only those (only a handful of people) alive then truly knew whom Christ was and they knew by divine revelation.

Likewise, we the true followers of Olumba, by divine grace and mercy realize and acknowledge the true personality of Olumba Olumba Obu. He has no law or commandments other than that which Christ gave us, love ye one another as he Christ loves us. Olumba teaches us about Christ from a much deeper level than can possibly be imagined. So based the spiritual mysteries he continues to unravel and explain, we know and believe that when he speaks about God or the Holy Spirit, that he indirectly speaks of himself.

Based on this information, we the followers of Olumba Olumba Obu are responsible, for whatever name ascribed to him, either good or bad. Interestingly, Olumba, regardless of what he is called either by brotherhood members or non-members, good or bad, does not bother him. His only interest is that you, I and everyone learn from his teachings of Love. His challenge to anyone is if they can practice his teachings of Love they will witness a remarkable change in their lives.

How each of us or anyone for that matter, chooses to indentify or acknowledge Olumba is based on individual revelation (dreams and visions) given to each of us, and enlightenment from the Holy Spirit.

Ordinarily I don’t go about telling people that Olumba is God or the Holy Spirit because it’s my personal revelation; neither should any brotherhood member do this, but some, if not many do. But if you out rightly ask me who I think he is I will tell you what I think and believe and the reasoning behind my understanding and belief.


4. Is it true that for over 50 years OOO never left the premises of the Brotherhood place of worship in Calabar?

This is true! Olumba has never left the shores of Nigeria to go anywhere. We have bethels all over Nigeria and not once has he set foot in any bethel outside two main locations in Calabar (and there are many other locations in Calabar he has never set foot inside of), much less abroad where brotherhood is firmly established.

5. Is it correct that OOO taught that since Jesus had only 3 years for his ministry on earth, it was not possible for many other things to be revealed and that he, OOO, embodies other revelations?

I wouldn’t quite phrase this way, but yes going by the Scriptures, Christ said, I have yet many things to teach you but you cannot understand or receive them now, but when the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. See John 16: 12 – 16 for the full reading. Preferably use the KJV (Kings James Version) or the NKJV (New Kings James Version). These are quite explicit.

Let’s put things into proper perspective. God came down to earth and beheld him as the son of God. His purpose for coming was to reunite man to God; this was why he gave his life as a sacrifice. Now that this part of his assignment has been completed, he informed us that he has to go away to enable the coming of the Comforter.

The purpose or assignment of the Comforter, who is also the Holy Spirit, is to bring us into the accurate knowledge of truth and lead us into the kingdom of God. From all indication, the Scriptures through Revelation, informs us that God himself will be with us and we will see him in person, and he will teach us all things. Christ used analogies to describe events that were to come. A point in case is the parable of the husbandmen. The servants were sent and killed, and then the son and finally the owner of the vineyard himself had to come. The owner of the vineyard is God himself!

Just like it was difficult for the Scribes and Pharisees to accept that Christ was the Son of God (even though we do know that he was actually God in the flesh), so also in this present time it’s also difficult for the world to accept that God will ever come in human form! The irony here is that we somehow accept that God previously came in the flesh as Christ! How weird is this!

Even if we all choose to ignore or overlook the fact that we acknowledge Olumba Olumba Obu as the promised Comforter in brotherhood, the fact remains that the Scriptures tells us that God will once again come in the flesh.

This was why Christ gave hints about the coming of the Holy Spirit; he will come like a thief in the night, the coming of the Lord will like in the days of Noah! The days of Noah being referred to, had to do with the fact that people were forewarned about a coming event. An event that should be prepared for and not take people unawares.

Like the coming of a thief in the night, people only become aware after the actual event! We are told by the Scriptures that we know in part, but when he that is perfect comes, we will know in full.

Again, all I am doing is sharing my understanding of something I believe in. I have no desire or intention of converting or wining anyone over. No one comes to God except God calls or extends an invitation to such a person.


6. Did OOO teach that salvation can be attained by obeying instructions from himself?

Olumba teaches that when we follow the teachings of the Holy Spirit, we are able to overcome the flesh and we gain eternal life. Overcoming the flesh is overcoming anger, annoyance, hate, envy, malice, jealousy, selfishness, fornication, adultery etc.

There’s only one law in brotherhood, love.

Every other thing comes under the umbrella of love. Love does not force or compel you to do anything. Love for example, presents the facts and reasons why smoking is not good for you, but love will not take cigarettes away from you, ostracise or alienate you, simply because you are yet to give up a vice.


Every vice is a weakness and to some greater or lesser degree, an addiction. Addictions or habits are not formed overnight; neither will a cure, in most cases be found overnight. God gives us time to heal.



7. I understand that members of the Brotherhood must be vegans/vegetarians; is this true? If yes, why?

Not all members are vegan or vegetarian. Those who have been blessed with the ability are. Those who have not been given the ability, yet still eat meat and all that they find pleasing to their stomachs.

I don’t eat meat or any animal flesh, yet my wife and kids do. What you eat or do not eat does not make you a better person or Christian.

As absurd as it may seem and at variance with popular consensus, the bible actually tells us that in the beginning God intended for both man and animals to be vegetarians/vegans. It wasn’t until Adam and Eve fell from grace that Man and animal knew chaos. They all now had to eat flesh. Similarly, God’s initial plan was not for man to toil before he eats or for women to suffer through child-birth.

Genesis 1:29-30 (New King James Version)

29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so.

8. What about the consumption of alcohol and alcoholic beverages, is this allowed?

Just like all issues in brotherhood, we are taught about the things that grieve the Spirit. On a spiritual level, these are things that would hinder our direct link with the Holy Spirit, while on a physical level; alcohol has been proven to have adverse effects on the body.

On the whole everyone is quick to jump at any chance to quote the bible passage that says one should drink in moderation, but no one highlights the passage that tell you that in order to be holy you should abstain from any type of alcoholic drink!

Numbers 6:1-4 (New King James Version)

The Law of the Nazirite

1 Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘When either a man or woman consecrates an offering to take the vow of a Nazirite, to separate himself to the LORD, 3 he shall separate himself from wine and similar drink; he shall drink neither vinegar made from wine nor vinegar made from similar drink; neither shall he drink any grape juice, nor eat fresh grapes or raisins. 4 All the days of his separation he shall eat nothing that is produced by the grapevine, from seed to skin.

As you must have gathered, the ways of the Nairite is all about keeping yourself Holy for God’s use. In this new era of the Holy Sprit, we are been taught how to lives worthy of Children of God.

This is all part of the new or extended teachings of the Holy Spirit, but mind you, nothing is cast in stone! Everyone has the freewill to decide what they choose to do!

Hence, on the issue of alcohol and it being disallowed in brotherhood, there is no such law, command or order that prohibits its use!

Individuals have to decide for themselves what it is they want from life and their relationship with God. But we must always remember that to whom much is given, much is also expected of. Not everyone has been given the ability to refrain from the different vices to which we all prone, but we can always strive to do our best and be our best at all times.

Whatever your individual ability, as given by God, use it to glorify God by allowing yourself be a guiding light to others who are blind or less fortunate than yourself. This has nothing to do with possessions or wealth, but fruits of the spirit; love, patience, tolerance etc.

9. What about medicines? Are (some) common medicines restricted? If yes, why?
10. What about injections: intravenous and/or intramuscular? Are these restricted?

These two questions will be treated as one. As previously stated there are no laws in brotherhood that prevent s or forbids the use of medicines, going to hospitals, having blood transfusions or any type of injection.
Brotherhood members do use hospitals, doctors and medicine. If these were banned then brotherhood member would also not be allowed to take up or engage in such professions!
THE Scriptures teach that with faith we can move mountains. Olumba teaches us that if we have faith there is nothing beyond our reach. Hence if you have the kind of faith which believes that you will be healed by prayers, and your faith is strong enough, you will be healed.
For others their faith lies in the fact that God will make or allow medicine aid their cure. To them, this still is faith, but of a different category!

11. What roles have the members of OOO's family played within the brotherhood?

Brotherhood is not a family business that creates positions for the owners children. If you make yourself a vessel fit for God’s use then by all means you are a child of God. If you are a child of God, then you are a child of light. If you are a child of light, then God will make good use of you. Christ said only those who do the will of my Father are my brethren. God does not recognise mother, father, brother or sister or relatives! All that is important is for us to allow love guide our paths, so that God’s name will be praised.

12. Has OOO and/or the Brotherhood made any unfulfilled prophecies?

Olumba never makes or gives prophesies, he makes pronouncements and they have all come to pass. All prophesies given or approved by the Olumba have all been fulfilled. The only prophesy that matters in brotherhood are those given directly by those he approves.

Nimshi:
Hi wuciwug,

thank you for your contributions. It is a new perspective to obtain information by one who understands the Brotherhood. My contact with the Brotherhood has only been through a family I know who've been members for along time. I understood they were/are Christians, but we never bothered to discuss religion. Until one day a little even (not an unpleasant one, I should add) made it clear to me they were members of the Brotherhood. It didn't change a thing because, from all I know about this family, it wouldn't have mattered: their children are well-adjusted, we've had small parties where everyone played badminton and other sports together, they are helpful, respectful, pleasant and all you'D like in a any good family. The parents are always fair in their dealings, and my experience has been that they'll go out of their way to help people; this last fact has resulted in people taking advantage of them.

When we needed their assistance, they gave willingly of their time and other resources. And although I've heard nothing good about the Brotherhood prior to meeting this family (rumours of demons, witches, cult-ish practices and other fantastic reports that one would suspect couldn't be plausibly true. . . ), my interaction with them has been a blessing and a blast of fresh air, confirming the wise position of not making judgements about people from hearsay. Yet, could it be that this one family are an exception? Now, I will submit that no one group could be all bad; and that it is difficult to get a good understanding of religious organisations without being involved. But, if there's no smoke without a fire (and I agree that could be smoke without a fire) why is it that the Brotherhood have had so much bad pres

I have invited my friend to take a look at this thread. Nothing that will be discussed will change the impression I have formed of him and his family; they are good people. The practice of their faith (irrespective of the teachings and doctrines and other beliefs) is at a level that so high that many 'regular' Christians wouldn't even meet up to it. I am interested in the teachings of the Brotherhood, and was hoping that you would perhaps be willing to answer some questions? If not on this open thread, it could be in private . . .

Cheers.

Nimshi - It's nice to know that you have met some members of brotherhood, who do not conform to the "norm" the norm being the negative hearsay, rumours and false witnessing by many others. As you have rightly pointed out, no group is without its bad eggs!

Considering how you still chose to accept this brotherhood family, despite being made aware of their being brotherhood members, can only mean that you are one of the very few exceptional human beings, with the rare quality of not judging a book by its cover, but by its merits.

Most of the information out there about brotherhood is either mostly false, misconstrued or as a result of the misrepresentation of some bad eggs in our midst.

For the most part, peoples' fears largely contribute to their misperception and misconception of brotherhood. Take for example this same family you have spoken well of, just like you have been able to look beyond their membership of brotherhood, there are many others who I can assure you have freaked out after they got to know about their involvement with brotherhood. Not because they now found out that they were/are bad or diabolical, but because they have been conditioned to think and believe so.

An incident that happened to me a few months ago, involved a woman I had never met before. A close family friend had asked her to help bring some Nigerian music over for me. Since she was visiting from Nigeria, I had to go and collect the items from her. Upon getting there, I rang the door bell and she let me into the flat. We got talking and she said she had heard many nice things about me from this friend, no sooner the conversation got round to religion and my place of worship.

When I said brotherhood, she screamed! She said Olumba's church? I said yes! All the while with a big smile on my face. She said she has been made to understand that we always have to walk through doors backwards and I didn't! She said she has heard numerous negative things about brotherhood which did not fit my behaviour.

The main reason for telling this story is that the friend she was staying with now came out her room and joined in the conversation. She recounted the story of a particular church (I can't remember its name) and its pastor she had heard about when she was still living in Nigeria. This pastor according to her had received a lot of negative press and was considered no good and down right evil.

Since she lived within close proximity to this pastor's church, she had to walk past the church almost everyday and each time she had to walk past she always had a blinding headache! She attributed this headache to the evil forces operating with the pastor.

Now, this lady moved abroad and one day was listening to a gospel channel. Tuned in, in the middle of the preaching and liked the gospel being preached. At some point, the preacher started a prayer and she placed her hand on the tv, to receive the prayers. At the end of the prayers, the preacher tuned out to be the same pastor she thought was evil! She could not believe her ears nor her eyes! She said she thought back to everyone she has told negative things about this pastor and his church and now here she was listening to him preach this wonderful gospel and say this wonderful powerful prayer!

When she now visits Nigeria, she walks past this church without any more headaches and she no longer has any fear for it. Is this a case of hysteria, or possibly that she has now being bewitched to change her mind? You decide!

This woman's story is similar to what many people experience about brotherhood. If you must know, brotherhood does not lack members, neither does it solicit for members. Brotherhood sharing its existence with other is only on the basis of sharing what is considered useful information. Similar to condom adverts telling you the benefits of using condom but not telling you whom to buy condoms from!

Brotherhood bethels (we don't call them churches) exit all over the world, even as far as Russia! How does an establishment such as this extend itself beyond the shores of Nigeria without its leader ever going to any of these countries? How can an organization such as this still exist after 60 odd years?

Contrary to what many think, brotherhood is not a place all an d sundry can go. If God does not extend an invitation to you, you cannot come! If you do come without God himself revealing brotherhood to you, you cannot and will not accept it! Without this special invitation from God, anything and everything brotherhood will stink to you. Its a case of some will have eyes but cannot see. Some will have ears, but they will not hear because God has both deafened and blinded them!

Again, you will cause to differ and disagree, but remember, anything not established by God cannot and will not stand, either in the long or short term!

I can boldly say that God will surely destroy brotherhood and Olumba if they are not from him!

Nimshi, if you have any question to ask about brotherhood, please fire away! There is nothing about brotherhood that cannot be discussed openly!

zedkya:
hi again wuciwug.

just figured out what your name stands for,i like it

i have arranged to meet with my uncle next week and as you seem like a very genuine kind person i was wondering if there is any other way i can contact you and if it would be at all possible for you to chat with him as you seem to be our only lifeline and only chance of making him see that these people are frauds.

my aunt lives in london,uk so if he was to come back to england permanently he would be residing there with her so maybe you could also give him some advice on where he could find a genuine brotherhood church.

i know its a long shot but i could do with your help we are desperate to help him but he will not listen to us but with you being a member of the brotherhood i am sure he will listen to you.

please help if you can it would mean the world to us

Hi Zedkya - I would be quite glad to help out any way I can. You can contact me at my forum name (which u figured out, as abbreviated)@live.co.uk

poetikalz:
@mewuoki
How are you so sure of what you are saying?How do you know if its harmful or not or devil's advocate or not?Have you met him?Did you eat with him?Please don't say things that you don't knw about him.Or are yu trying to initiate new converts into there using this forum(if thats your agenda,am very sure am amongst those that wont roll along with you?).Keep your mouth shut and stop supporting things you know nada about.Let the wucci or whatever his name is herald his master and church.

Poetikalz - There is no need to insult Mewuoki because you disagree with his opinion, after all, what you are also doing here is giving your own opinion. We might not agree on our differing opinions but we can at least be civil with each other.

You have to consider this, what makes your opinion right and that of Mewuoki wrong? All we can all give/share is our individual points of view, controversial or not.

Mewuoki has said he/she is within close proximity of some brotherhood members, and by virtue of this proximity has been able to confirm/disprove in his/her opinion, certain things about Brotherhood of the Cross & Star. This is something good! Why? Here is someone who can talk from first hand experience and not "them say". So no matter what conclusion Mewuoki comes to, is as objective as one can hope for, even though there is still the possibility of misinterpretation.

zedkya:
hi wuciwug thanks for your recent info it was very helpful, although it has made me even more concerned about my uncle.
the people at the brotherhood have told him that he is a prophet and that he doesn't need to see a doctor as olumba olumba obu will heal him. he lives in south africa, although he is in england at the moment for a few days, he has come back to get access to more money! he once had his own restaurant and was doing quite well for himself but lost everything including his home here in england when he joined ther brotherhood 18 years ago. any bit of money he gets goes to them and he drinks nothing but undiluted squash as he believes it is pure fruit juice because this is what they have told him. they also tell him that he must love O.O.O more than his wife,brothers and children and so has no pretty much abandoned his whole family. he is completely on his own out there. he has hernia and we believe he may have cateracts but as i say is not allowed to seek medical attention. 18years ago when he joined the brotherhood his wife joined too but when she realised that they were not genuine she voiced her opinions and they then turned on her convincing my uncle that she was trying to do him wrong of some sort, they placed their hands on her forehead and screamed saying that she was on fire (which i think means she is the devil). this is what they have told my uncle anyway. it seems that this particular sect are frauds! you said you were in the brothehood, may i ask why you are no longer a member?

Zedkya - I am still a member of Brotherhood.

Whoever your uncle is with or dealing with is obviously confused and unaware of what Brotherhood really is. It seems to me like they are after your Uncle's money and nothing else. These are not true brotherhood members. They are con artists.

To get at his money, they have succeeded in making desert his family so as gain full control of him and his money. I would suggest that you use any means possible to get your uncle out of their midst.

These people from what you have shared are neither God fearing people or with any conscience. Their practices are far removed from true brotherhood practices.

If it's possible to involve the police, I would say go ahead. You must get your aunt (your uncle's wife) to try and fight for her husband. He has fallen into the hands of crooked folks out to feed their bellies.

If need be go to court, have them declare your uncle incompetent. This way you would have the right to remove him from amongst them.

Mewuoki:
The Nigerian Society is so funny a place that we accept information without verification. People, in the name of "trying to be current" will misinform the society and we will never verify these rumours. I have grew up to hear so many things about olumba olumba, many of these stories are not even verified and i live very close to these people, I personally have to investigate these things and found out that most of these are propagandas raised by top public figures to show down on the Church. While Newspapers picked on every forms of lies to make money selling fake stories about olumba, the so called born against also used these stories to buy members to themselves.One of the stories was that Olumba sucks Blood, and yet more people are rushing to the Church, are they not affraid of their blood be sucked. By conclusion, i know its difficult to quench rumours but i believe this the 21st century and we have information gadgets and systems that can be used in effective findings either to exposed or bring to light the activities of Sects, Churches and even individuals, Lets make use of these systems, Instate of reprinting what u hear without verifications.

True talk!

grafikdon:
I love the way the fuse African beats in their praise and worship music. I think they literally bounce in da Lord, African style. There was a branch behind our apartment in Awka (Don't know if it is still there). I used to enjoy their morning devotion music. . . I think it is an interesting church and I like their style of 'Jesus musical'. . . very mesmerizing when they break out with the drums. . . you either shake what your mama gave ya or nod behind closed doors.

Grafikdon - I like what you write, but the truth is that we do not use drums in Brotherhood! The highest musical instrument we use is a Piano/keyboard/organ and these are used only during specific occasions.

If you heard what sounds like a drum, it must have been a chorister imitating the sound of a drum with the help of a microphone. Just like a human beatbox.

jerrymania:
why do u want to know when the only stories u've heard are all bad. what truth r u lookin for again?

Jerrymania - I think you've misunderstood Busta! She's saying she wants to know anything and everything there is to know about Brotherhood/Olumba.

This will somehow help inform her decision about what Brotherhood is.

Busta:
I am soooooo curious about the church brotherhood of the cross and star----any member in here?

anybody know anything about the Olumba Olumba Church?

good or bad?
evil or good?

heard so many stories about the church.

Hi Busta, I'll be glad to give you any info you require, but I need you to ask specific questions so that I can address these directly.

zedkya:
my uncle is in the brotherhood of the cross and star,in south africa, I'm really worried about him, he needs medical attention but they wont let him go to a doctor or hospital
any suggestions

Zedkya - Something is definitely wrong somewhere! I have been a member of Brotherhood of the Cross & Star for the last 24 years and there is no law in Brotherhood doctrine that forbids anyone from going to a doctor of visiting a hospital.

If there are such people, like you say, then they are not true brotherhood members and your uncle is in serious trouble!

As far as I know, we don't have any staunch brotherhood members or an actual official location, in South Africa. Although You don't necessarily have to have been in Brotherhood for a long period of time to be a true brotherhood member, you just have to be led by the Holy Spirit. And if you are led by the Holy Spirit, you will be hard pressed to offend anyone!

If you care to provide a contact number for these "members" I will attempt to contact them. It is against the teachings of the Holy Spirit to hold anyone against their will or force anyone to do anything in the name of God! God does not force you to do anything against your will!

As time permits, I will respond to any and all queries regarding Olumba Olumba Obu and Brotherhood of the Cross & Star.