MaxInDHouse:


When it comes to prophecy about the future note that the Bible has been completed 500+ years before the birth of Muhammad and this man had dealings with other religions of his time so he could easily mimick what he heard from Bible readers.
To know if truly any prophet is from God it's no longer a matter of accurate prophecy because the Bible has revealed what will happen in the future and anyone can quote it yet pretending to receive something new.
Will you like to know the indisputable fact that proves that apart from what is found in the Bible Muhammad and all others are FAKE? Galatians 1:8

Chichigi1990:
1. Was Daniel a god? Didnt he predict future event by the power of God? Was Noah a god?

2. The hallmark of a true prophet is being able to predict accurately future events. So in this regard, was Mohammed a prophet of God? In the mould of Daniel and other Prophets sent by God?

21 The Lord, the king of Jacob, says, “Come, present your arguments. Show me your proof.
22 Let your idols come in and tell us what will happen. Idols, tell us what happened in the beginning. We will listen closely so that we can make a decision. Tell us what will happen in the future.
23 What signs did you give in the past to prove that you really are gods? Do something! Do anything, good or bad, so that we can see that you are alive. Then we might fear and respect you.

24 “Look, you false gods are worthless. You cannot do anything. Only some horrible fool[e] would want to worship you.” - Isaiah 41 vs 21 - 24

Kobojunkie:
You need to pay particular attention to the passages you quote - context and content .

You quoted a passage from Isaiah 41 where the Lord, King of Israel, put forth a test for idols I.e. gods to be tested by Him.
The test was set by the Lord, King of Israel, as a test for gods, so if Mohammed would like to have himself validated as a god then he would need to present his case before God, not men, to be judged.

1. Daniel was not a god but one of God's prophet's. Noah was also not a god, and he was certainly not of the time or Israel. So the test you quoted from Isaiah 41 wouldn't apply unless they are worshipped by men were gods.

2. I am afraid the hallmark of a true prophet to the people of Israel is more than that this since the same God who gave the Law of Moses to the children of Israel also gave them other laws regarding the prophets he would send to them one of which was that the prophet would come from among their brethren aka The bloodline of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

And since Mohammed isn't of that bloodline, he couldn't measure up to the Daniel's or the Isaiahs who God sent in accordance with His Covenant with the children of Israel.

Chichigi1990:
Well written.
Answer me these questions;
1. Did Prophets of God predict the future by the power of God?
2. Does predicting the future by the power of God make them gods?

Kobojunkie:
1. In the context of Israel .I.e. God's Old Covenant Law of Moses, the prophets sent by God did predict the future by the power of God.

2. In the context that is Israel .I.e. God's Old Covenant Law of Moses, predicting the future by God's power did not render the prophets gods among men.

Chichigi1990:


You have derailed slightly from the topic of discussion

We are talking about Prophets and Prophecies. Was Prophet Mohammed a Prophet of God or not?
If No, why?

Because it is said that only true(not false) prophets can tell the future and offer explaination for past events.

.

Chichigi1990:
“Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets” (Amos 3:7).

1. My dear friend, you are honest but can you point of one instance anywhere in the Bible or the Quran or the Talmud where Prophet Mohammed plagerised or copied or stole prophesies from other Prophets and coverted them to his own?

2. If Non, then do you agree that Prophet Mohammed was indeed sent by God?

1. People of Israel, listen to this message! This is what the Lord said about you, Israel. This message is about all the families that I brought from the land of Egypt.
2 “There are many families on earth, but you are the only family I chose to know in a special way. And you turned against me, so I will punish you for all your sins.”
3 Two people will not walk together unless they have agreed to do so.
4 A lion will roar in the forest only if it catches its prey. A young lion roaring in his cave means he has caught something to eat.
5 A bird doesn’t fly into a trap unless there is food in it. If a trap closes, it will catch the bird.
6 If people hear the warning blast of a trumpet,
they shake with fear. If trouble comes to a city,
the Lord caused it to happen.
7 When the Lord God decides to do something, he will first tell his servants, the prophets.
8 When a lion roars, people are frightened. When the Lord God speaks, a prophet must prophesy. - Amos 3 vs 1 - 8

mhmsadyq:


Probably a contraction.

To Muslims Allah is "Allah" and has never meant "the god" whether in english or any other language.

Kobojunkie:
Again, it is essential to avoid lifting verses out of context from scripture.
The "something" Amos, the prophet, was referring to was punishment God had lined up for Israel. God revealed the punishment He had in store for His people, Israel, through His Prophets, just as Amos alluded to. This pattern is clearly observed throughout much of the Old Testament beginning with Moses.

1. I can't answer to that since I have not read through the Quran in a long time now. What I can instead say is that Mohammed can't offer any predictions regarding Israel though since he is not of that bloodline and God's ruling as far as prophets are concerned, by that Law, does not in anyway apply to Mohammed as a result.

2. How can you or anyone conclude he was sent by God simply on grounds that he like didn’t plagerise or copied or stole prophesies from other Prophets? Am I missing something here?

---

Basically, Mohammed is not a Jew but a Gentile, and so all that applies as far as Prophets of Israel do not apply to Mohammed or any Gentile out there. God's Law as given to the israelites apply only to those of Israelite blood. Those of us who are not of that bloodline are held by God to a different standard by God.

Chichigi1990:
1. Prophets mean Prophets. God is not a religious.
Every prophet has a message.

2. This a a summary Jesus the messenger of God brought: Jesus taught his disciples that Gentiles positive response to the Gospel meant that they were accepted by God. This would prepare them for the day when Gentiles were included into the church without converting to Judaism.

3. To me and Many Muslims, we believe that the Injil(True Gospel of Jesus) was revealed by God to Jesus in a manner comparable to the way the Quran was revealed to Muhammad.
There will be no Jew or Gentile in heaven but those who do the will of God.

enilove:


How did I derail slightly ?

Muhammad was accused of stealing and his god could not proof his innocence .
Is that not a clear evidence that he was a false prophet ?

Prophets not only give prophecies , they inform the people God's words regarding issues or matters affecting the people and the way forward .

The fact that Muhammad could not tell the people who the thief was , clearly shows he was a FAKE PROPHET AND ALLAH A FAKE god.

AntiChristian:


Chichigi1990 better leave this guy alone.
He's skillful in diversion and lies.

Even before Prophethood the Prophet was called Al-Amin- (The trustworthy).

He was of exceptional morals in Makkah.

It was when he started preaching Laa illaaha illa Allah that all the accusations started trooping in.

Jesus told a man to go take a donkey without any permission in your Bible. You'll bring an excuse for that invasion of privacy, breaking and entering, gaining unauthorized access to private residence among other vices.

Kobojunkie:
Please pay attention!

1. In the Bible, an Old Covenant Prophet is defined as prophet from the bloodline of Jacob sent by God fo the people of Israel. This is the Covenant God made with the Jews, as it is written of in the Law of Moses. What this means is that God will never send a Gentile born man to the children of Israel. This is one of the reasons why Jesus Christ, God's New Covenant Law had to be a Jew as well.

2. Your summary is wrong! Jesus Christ, is God's New Covenant and Law, a separate Covenant which God made with the Jews and with which He blessed the nations of the world with - Gentiles included. Jesus Christ taught a different and separate Law from the Law God had formerly given to the Jews through Moses and this Law was for a different Kingdom from the Old as well - the Kingdom of God.

In the Kingdom of God, the definition of prophet takes on a whole different light entirely since all those who become Sons of God are prophets by default this since the Spirit of God Himself seals them.

3. The world in Bible scripture is divided into two- of Jews and Gentiles. God previously have Law only to the Jews. Then through Jesus Christ, God then gave a new overarching Covenant to cover both Jews and Gentlles alike..

enilove:


Where is the diversion , you Antichrist ?

The point is Muhammad and Allah couldn't tell who the thief was . Is that a prophet ?

enilove:


Where is the diversion , you Antichrist ?

The point is Muhammad and Allah couldn't tell who the thief was . Is that a prophet ?

MaxInDHouse:


When it comes to prophecy about the future note that the Bible has been completed 500+ years before the birth of Muhammad and this man had dealings with other religions of his time so he could easily mimick what he heard from Bible readers.
To know if truly any prophet is from God it's no longer a matter of accurate prophecy because the Bible has revealed what will happen in the future and anyone can quote it yet pretending to receive something new.
Will you like to know the indisputable fact that proves that apart from what is found in the Bible Muhammad and all others are FAKE? Galatians 1:8

AntiChristian:


Allah will not expose all the evil doers in this world. That's why there is the day of account. Moreso, Muhammad was not s foretune teller. He only knows what was revealed to him.

Your Jesus was asked about the hour and he replied "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." Mark 13:32

Can you tell us the names of the soldiers who crucified Jesus in your Bible?

Chichigi1990:
1. You guys should try to summarize things for easy understanding. Are you saying Prophet Mohammed wasn't sent by God? If yes, give me your reasons thats all i am asking.

2. In response to what you have written i will try and respond as best as possible.
a. Our Prophet Mohammed is considered to be one of the many descendants of Ishmael. Ishmael was the first son of Abraham, the common patriarch of the Abrahamic religions, and is venerated by Muslims as a prophet. His mother was Egyptian Hagar.
But here lies the falacy he was not regarded a Jew or Christian, since the Jews are either to be taken as the followers of Moses or as the descendants of Abraham's grandson, Jacob. But Abraham was a Jew!

b. Another thing to consider, since you Christians say JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD, HOW COME HE HAS HUMAN ANCESTORS?
ISN'T BLASPHEMOUS TO SAY THE SON OF GOD IS A JEW?

3. Jesus was a Prophet as well, Jesus didnt teach any seperate law for Jesus himself said in
Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.Saying Jesus taught a seperate law invalidates scriptures. What proof di you have to show that Mohammed is not a Prophet?

4. If God gave a new outreach convenant to cover both jews and gentiles, and you claim Mohammed was a Gentile coupled with the fact that Mohammed reigned some 500years after Jesus. Mohammed a non jew, reigned after Jesus, doesnt the " new outreach " convenant qualify Mohammed(whom you claim is a gentile) to be sent by God with a Prophetic message?

Kobojunkie:
1. Whatever God sent Mohammed, it can't be the same God of the Bible this since Mohammed as His servants contradicts God's Truth in every way there is.

2a. Abraham was not a Jew. Neither was Isaac a Jew. Instead the Jewish blood line to which God gave His Covenant to began with Jacob aka Israel. It is to those who have the blood of Jacob that God gave His Old Covenant Law of Moses to - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20. Every one else in the world are Gentiles.

2b. You first need to understand what it means to say Jesus Christ is a Son of God for this discussion to go places. But what's more important here is that Jesus Christ came from the same blood line of Jacob this again because God said the prophets He would send to the Jewish people would come from among them. God does not send a Gentile as prophet to the Jews - this is what God made clear in His Law.
Also God said He would use Abraham's seed to bless Him and the Nations of the world(Jews and Gentiles alike) with - Genesis 12 vs 1 - 3, and so Jesus Christ coming as a Jew makes sense since, again, God does not send Gentiles as prophet to the Jewish people.

3. God Himself promised His People a New Covenant when He said He would send from among them a prophet like Moses - the Law giver - in Deuteronomy 18 vs 15. This same promise was echoed throughout the Old Covenant by God through His many prophets - Jeremiah 31 vs 31 - 34 & Ezekiel 34 vs 1 - 16 & Ezekiel 36 vs 25 - 27. Even David, the israelite King spoke of the Covenant to come.

Ofcourse, No man has power to undo that which God has decree and that is what Jesus Christ reiterated there in Matthew 5 vs 17 - 19. God's Old Covenant and Law of Moses lives on to this day just as Jesus Christ said - it is an eternal law.

Jesus Christ, However, brought to men a different Covenant, for those born jews and gentiles alike (the nation's of the world) to be blessed with. So rather than invalidate scripture, God's New Covenant instead fulfills scripture.

4. The fact that God already gave Law that covers both Jews and Gentiles for His Kingdom is what invalidates Mohammed claim that He was sent by the same God.

God's Laws are eternal and unchanging. So since God already blessed the peoples of the world through His 2 previous Covenants, it is contradictory to then claim that the same God would then send a Gentile man to change/invalidate that which He already decreed- His Laws.

This is the reason why I said that Mohammed as a servant of the same God contradicts everything God did prior to him.

Kobojunkie:
1. Whatever God sent Mohammed, it can't be the same God of the Bible this since Mohammed as His servants contradicts God's Truth in every way there is.

2a. Abraham was not a Jew. Neither was Isaac a Jew. Instead the Jewish blood line to which God gave His Covenant to began with Jacob aka Israel. It is to those who have the blood of Jacob that God gave His Old Covenant Law of Moses to - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20. Every one else in the world are Gentiles.

2b. You first need to understand what it means to say Jesus Christ is a Son of God for this discussion to go places. But what's more important here is that Jesus Christ came from the same blood line of Jacob this again because God said the prophets He would send to the Jewish people would come from among them. God does not send a Gentile as prophet to the Jews - this is what God made clear in His Law.
Also God said He would use Abraham's seed to bless Him and the Nations of the world(Jews and Gentiles alike) with - Genesis 12 vs 1 - 3, and so Jesus Christ coming as a Jew makes sense since, again, God does not send Gentiles as prophet to the Jewish people.

3. God Himself promised His People a New Covenant when He said He would send from among them a prophet like Moses - the Law giver - in Deuteronomy 18 vs 15. This same promise was echoed throughout the Old Covenant by God through His many prophets - Jeremiah 31 vs 31 - 34 & Ezekiel 34 vs 1 - 16 & Ezekiel 36 vs 25 - 27. Even David, the israelite King spoke of the Covenant to come.

Ofcourse, No man has power to undo that which God has decree and that is what Jesus Christ reiterated there in Matthew 5 vs 17 - 19. God's Old Covenant and Law of Moses lives on to this day just as Jesus Christ said - it is an eternal law.

Jesus Christ, However, brought to men a different Covenant, for those born jews and gentiles alike (the nation's of the world) to be blessed with. So rather than invalidate scripture, God's New Covenant instead fulfills scripture.

4. The fact that God already gave Law that covers both Jews and Gentiles for His Kingdom is what invalidates Mohammed claim that He was sent by the same God.

God's Laws are eternal and unchanging. So since God already blessed the peoples of the world through His 2 previous Covenants, it is contradictory to then claim that the same God would then send a Gentile man to change/invalidate that which He already decreed- His Laws.

This is the reason why I said that Mohammed as a servant of the same God contradicts everything God did prior to him.

Kobojunkie:
1. Whatever God sent Mohammed, it can't be the same God of the Bible this since Mohammed as His servants contradicts God's Truth in every way there is.

2a. Abraham was not a Jew. Neither was Isaac a Jew. Instead the Jewish blood line to which God gave His Covenant to began with Jacob aka Israel. It is to those who have the blood of Jacob that God gave His Old Covenant Law of Moses to - Deuteronomy 30 vs 15 - 20. Every one else in the world are Gentiles.

2b. You first need to understand what it means to say Jesus Christ is a Son of God for this discussion to go places. But what's more important here is that Jesus Christ came from the same blood line of Jacob this again because God said the prophets He would send to the Jewish people would come from among them. God does not send a Gentile as prophet to the Jews - this is what God made clear in His Law.
Also God said He would use Abraham's seed to bless Him and the Nations of the world(Jews and Gentiles alike) with - Genesis 12 vs 1 - 3, and so Jesus Christ coming as a Jew makes sense since, again, God does not send Gentiles as prophet to the Jewish people.

3. God Himself promised His People a New Covenant when He said He would send from among them a prophet like Moses - the Law giver - in Deuteronomy 18 vs 15. This same promise was echoed throughout the Old Covenant by God through His many prophets - Jeremiah 31 vs 31 - 34 & Ezekiel 34 vs 1 - 16 & Ezekiel 36 vs 25 - 27. Even David, the israelite King spoke of the Covenant to come.

Ofcourse, No man has power to undo that which God has decree and that is what Jesus Christ reiterated there in Matthew 5 vs 17 - 19. God's Old Covenant and Law of Moses lives on to this day just as Jesus Christ said - it is an eternal law.

Jesus Christ, However, brought to men a different Covenant, for those born jews and gentiles alike (the nation's of the world) to be blessed with. So rather than invalidate scripture, God's New Covenant instead fulfills scripture.

4. The fact that God already gave Law that covers both Jews and Gentiles for His Kingdom is what invalidates Mohammed claim that He was sent by the same God.

God's Laws are eternal and unchanging. So since God already blessed the peoples of the world through His 2 previous Covenants, it is contradictory to then claim that the same God would then send a Gentile man to change/invalidate that which He already decreed- His Laws.

This is the reason why I said that Mohammed as a servant of the same God contradicts everything God did prior to him.

Maynman:


Sis, Bible was not written in English but in Hebrew. “God” is a English word , look for the origin of your “God”.
God is a title not a person, don’t deceive yourself.

Chichigi1990:

1. If by word of God you mean the Bible then you have derailed because the bible is just a collection of books, mostly written from the third person perspective, some parts lifted from the jewish scrptures and edited out. So no need saying "God of the Bible" because the only recognized book from christianity is the Injil. Not the Roman collection of books.

2. According to you, Abraham was not a jew but the scrptures say he was a Prophet. This contradicts your argument that a Gentile can not be a prophet. Simple google search will reveal this.

3. If Jesus is the biological so of God, how come he has a human, fleshly bloodline?

4. So explain to us how Abraham is A gentile and a prophet because in Genesis 20:6-7 we find;

"Then God said to him( Abimelech) in the dream, “Yes, I know you did this with a clear conscience, and so I have kept you from sinning against me. That is why I did not let you touch her.
Now return the man’s wife, for he(Abraham) is a prophet, and he will pray for you and you will live. But if you do not return her, you may be sure that you and all who belong to you will die.”

Abraham, a gentile( according to you) was the first prophet name by God in your Bible.

5. So dont you see the posibility, that Mohammed too, a gentile(according to you) is also a Prophet of God?

Reminder: this is a friendly debate, i have no intention of winning arguement because no one is perfect. See this as an education.
Love and Peace!

Kobojunkie:
Please try to open your eyes and mind when reading so you actually comprehend what is written to you.

1. I never said the Word of God is the Bible. Instead, I made reference to the God of the Bible .I.e. the God worshipped by the Jews and the Christians aka followers of Jesus Christ, the Christ in the word Christianity.

2. Abraham was a Prophet of God but Abraham was not sent by God to the Jews, nor was Abraham a Prophet according to God's Covenant standard given only to the Jews.

3. Again, you need to have proper understanding of what the term "Son of God" refers to for this conversation to move anywhere sane.

4. Abraham was a righteous man - Genesis 26 vs 1 - 6 - who also was a friend of God - He did all that God commanded of Him - and so God's Holy Spirit was with Abraham as God made an agreement with Him.

But again, Abraham was not a Prophet under Jewish Laws. Instead, Abraham was a Prophet outside of Jewish Laws. Another such Gentile prophet was Balaam. Balaam was a man who was able to speak God's Word too but he too was not a Prophet according to God's Covenant Law of Moses. Eventually, God destroyed Balaam.

5. You keep missing the point that is being put across to you.

When it comes to God's Law of Moses, Mohammed cannot be a prophet like Moses or Jesus Christ who were sent to the Jews since he was a Gentile.

Now as a Gentile, sure, Mohammed could have been a prophet - if he has maybe come around the time of Abraham or Balaam, then he would maybe have been considered one of the prophets the same God had.

But given that Mohammed arrived almost 650 years after God's plan had been established, and that Mohammed's message stands in contradiction to God's plan which came to the world through the Jewish blood line, Mohammed cannot then be a prophet of the same God of the Jews whom the Christians worship. This or else God is nothing but a liar and a deceiver.

Kobojunkie:
Please try to open your eyes and mind when reading so you actually comprehend what is written to you.

1. I never said the Word of God is the Bible. Instead, I made reference to the God of the Bible .I.e. the God worshipped by the Jews and the Christians aka followers of Jesus Christ, the Christ in the word Christianity.

2. Abraham was a Prophet of God but Abraham was not sent by God to the Jews, nor was Abraham a Prophet according to God's Covenant standard given only to the Jews.

3. Again, you need to have proper understanding of what the term "Son of God" refers to for this conversation to move anywhere sane.

4. Abraham was a righteous man - Genesis 26 vs 1 - 6 - who also was a friend of God - He did all that God commanded of Him - and so God's Holy Spirit was with Abraham as God made an agreement with Him.

But again, Abraham was not a Prophet under Jewish Laws. Instead, Abraham was a Prophet outside of Jewish Laws. Another such Gentile prophet was Balaam. Balaam was a man who was able to speak God's Word too but he too was not a Prophet according to God's Covenant Law of Moses. Eventually, God destroyed Balaam.

5. You keep missing the point that is being put across to you.

When it comes to God's Law of Moses, Mohammed cannot be a prophet like Moses or Jesus Christ who were sent to the Jews since he was a Gentile.

Now as a Gentile, sure, Mohammed could have been a prophet - if he has maybe come around the time of Abraham or Balaam, then he would maybe have been considered one of the Gentile prophets the same God had before making the Jewish nation for Himself.

But given that Mohammed arrived almost 650 years after God's plan had been established, and that Mohammed's message stands in contradiction to God's plan which came to the world through the Jewish blood line, Mohammed cannot then be a prophet of the same God of the Jews whom the Christians worship. This or else God is nothing but a liar and a deceiver.

Chichigi1990:
You have the potential of being a true beliver. May Allah guide you to the right path.

Kobojunkie:
I am a follower of Jesus Christ meaning I live my life in submission to and obedience of His teachings (and commandments) and so I know Him enough to know He is God's Truth as God Himself promised.

Kobojunkie:
I am a follower of Jesus Christ meaning I live my life in submission to and obedience of His teachings (and commandments) and so I know Him enough to know He is God's Truth as God Himself promised.

Kobojunkie:
Chichigi1990, as regards your questions about Jesus Christ being the Son of God, I will make a short attempt to answer that so as not to derail...

Well as, written in Scripture, Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and there is a reason for this and Jesus Christ Himself explained it to His followers. Jesus Christ said in John 14 vs 1 - 7 that He is the way, the Truth and the Life....no one comes to the Father except through Him.

---

In Scripture we learn of God the following

▪︎ God is God of Wrath
▪︎ God is God of Laws
▪︎ God is Good/Righteous
▪︎ God is Faithful
▪︎ God is Love
▪︎ God is True
▪︎ God is Life
.....
And of Jesus Christ, we are informed by Him that He is
▪︎ God's Truth
▪︎ God's Life
▪︎ God's Law (one of many) aka The Way

So, as Jesus Christ explained, He is made from some some the same essence that is God hence He indeed is a Son of God aka God. However, since Jesus Christ doesn't have all of the essence of God, God isn't Jesus Christ.

Kobojunkie:
Chichigi1990, as regards your questions about Jesus Christ being the Son of God, I will make a short attempt to answer that so as not to derail...

Well as, written in Scripture, Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and there is a reason for this and Jesus Christ Himself explained it to His followers. Jesus Christ said in John 14 vs 1 - 7 that He is the way, the Truth and the Life....no one comes to the Father except through Him.

---

In Scripture we learn of God the following

▪︎ God is God of Wrath
▪︎ God is God of Laws
▪︎ God is Good/Righteous
▪︎ God is Faithful
▪︎ God is Love
▪︎ God is True
▪︎ God is Life
.....
And of Jesus Christ, we are informed by Him that He is
▪︎ God's Truth
▪︎ God's Life
▪︎ God's Law (one of many) aka The Way

So, as Jesus Christ explained, He is made from some some the same essence that is God hence He indeed is a Son of God aka God. However, since Jesus Christ doesn't have all of the essence of God, God isn't Jesus Christ.