SeunLanLege:


You haven't used c++ or Java, or have you?
Javascript actually makes things simpler by going with functional programming and not object oriented.

Well, i use the aforementioned languages, but have worked more with JAVA. At least i can claim expert in java and native javaScript.
But then, my own experience might be different from yours.

SeunLanLege:


You haven't used c++ or Java, or have you?
Javascript actually makes things simpler by going with functional programming and not object oriented.

Newer frameworks like angular2 are basically OOP

vankaid:

I am not here for knowledge show off nor do I have any plans for arguments like you guys do here all the time so if anything in my post didnt make sense why not point it out.

Highlighting words doesn't do that job.

Your post is too hostile so I don't think you're actually open to a mature conversation. I think I'll just pass on it.

On a friendly note, becareful on how easily aggressive you get as words, mostly online, often misinterpret emotions

spikesC:


Your post is too hostile so I don't think you're actually open to a mature conversation. I think I'll just pass on it.

On a friendly note, becareful on how easily aggressive you get as words, mostly online, often misinterpret emotions

hmmm!

vankaid:

The confusion that comes with reckless abandon with which these guys roll out different platforms on daily basis is enough to make one not to care.
However, after having to learn Angular "by force" due to an ionic mobile app I had to do, na im I come realize that truly JQuery is very weak.
You might not agree until you expend like 1 or two hours and look into any of these modern JS framework like Angular or Angular2 (at least the one I don try).
Infact I started wondering why I have been using PHP in every part of my application rather than just for REST Api.

When you say jquery is weak can you point out the weak spot.
Jq

guru01:

When you say jquery is weak can you point out the weak spot.
Jq

First of all I am not trying to talk down jquery or its users because I am (or was) a user. JQuery makes your life very easy if you were previously working with native javascript and html alone.
Now a new stuff like Angular (which is the only one I care about for now) takes it up a notch.
Architecturally you dont even begin to compare the two because while JQuery is a library, Angular is a framework. Therein lies the huge difference. While the makers of JQuery gave us some magic when we were helpless with just native javascript, the guys from google brought something that not only makes html smarter but practically lets you make your own html on the fly.
While DOM manipulation in jquery for e.g is cool but done with lots of spaghetti codes, with angular however, DOM manipulation is registered in the DOM itself. The functions are tied to html through html attributes and so for DOM manipulations u dont have to query it via selectors like you do with jquery and the result is a faster and cleaner application.
MVC framework, Data binding feature and Custom Directives lets you manufacture your own reusable codes due to the fact that you are not limited with what html and its attributes offer you. There are other things like routing for single page apps, templating MVC...
My brother the difference is just too much and I am not saying all these as an authority in anything but from an experience after I attempted building a mobile app with Jquery mobile and later somehow landing myself in angular. I have never looked back after just watching a 55 minute video tutorial.
Anything you can do with jquery, you can also do smarter and with faster result with angular and then theres so much more you can do with angular.

P.S: I am not an expert in angular. Heck I am still a learner and they and they already have angular2.

@vankaid, you are very wrong in saying that jQuery is weak.
One thing you need to realize is that every library/framework/platform has its own purposes. Like you rightly said in your post above, jQuery and prototype are two different things entirely.
If you want to compare jQuery, you can compare it with a similar library and not a framework.

And I am sorry, all the stuffs you have said above have still not proven why jQuery is weak.

dhtml18:

And I am sorry, all the stuffs you have said above have still not proven why jQuery is weak.

My "jquery is weak" statement which turns out to be the focus cricticism is for a comparism with frameworks earlier made by guru01.
I was specifically comparing it with jquery which he specifically said are all doing the same thing. Which I was trying to disprove.
However, in my most recent post I also made it clear JQuery is a life saver when it didnt have newer stuffs competing with it.
If the offense being taken here is the weak statement, I withdraw it so as not to hurt the feelings of anyone who might believe I am trying to look down on his favourite tool. That however does bot change the essence of the information I am passing there.

Angular is cool, and jq is cooler because, you can always use jquery to achieve almost anything as long as front end is concerned.
Base on millions of plugins out there, jq is not weak and can do anything angular can do.
I have used angular, and most times I mix all to achieve a task.

Angular is a framework, jQuery is a library. Frameworks have their place and libraries have their place. However, there is no question that a good framework has more power in writing an application than a library. That's exactly the point of a framework. You're welcome to write your code in plain JS, or you can add in a library of common functions, or you can add a framework to drastically reduce the code you need to accomplish most things.
All still boils down to vanilla JS under the hood.
Durandal, for example, is a framework built on top of jQuery, Knockout, and RequireJS. Again, jQuery cannot, by itself, provide what Knockout, RequireJS, and the whole framework built on top them can.

vankaid:

My "jquery is weak" statement which turns out to be the focus cricticism is for a comparism with frameworks earlier made by guru01.
I was specifically comparing it with jquery which he specifically said are all doing the same thing. Which I was trying to disprove.
However, in my most recent post I also made it clear JQuery is a life saver when it didnt have newer stuffs competing with it.
If the offense being taken here is the weak statement, I withdraw it so as not to hurt the feelings of anyone who might believe I am trying to look down on his favourite tool. That however does bot change the essence of the information I am passing there.

Okay, you have spoken well and maturedly, i hereby rest my case.

@guru too has spoken well (my only allegation left for guru to answer is concerning my MISSING GOAT - but that will be for another day)

jquery and Angular are two different thing especially based on the purpose for which they were developed. jquery is a library "mainly" for DOM Manipulation. Angular is a framework mainly for Data Binding. Pls note i used the word "mainly".

DOM Manipulation and Data Binding are two different thing in web programming.

Anyway as Google would have it, is like they want their framework to be able to do all things that concerns front end development. At the beginning of the development of Angular it was mainly for Data binding but today Google has gone ahead to include jqlite a library for DOM Manipulation to be part of Angular Framework. So today Angular can do almost what jquery will do. To me I see it as expansion of framework and the eyeopener in the area of DOM Manipulation still remain jquery. I know if jquery wants to compete with these new frameworks... then jquery team can go ahead and build their framework that will perform Data binding. So it a function of purpose... but jquery might not want to loose focus and it is the Boss of DOM manipulation in web programming.

I can see many of the Data binding frameworks are now including DOM Manipulation library into their frameworks.
Like React too has added React DOM to React for DOM Manipulation. Framework 7 a Mobile Application Framework too comes with is own DOM Manipulation called DOM 7 (though it is embedded into the framework).
Infact in terms of addition of many things to avoid external usage... Facebook React is the ring leader. Facebook ensured that React is used for anything development on the client side.... its only server side they are yet to touch.... imagine this

React Ecosystem
*React = Data Binding
*React DOM = DOM Manipulation
*React Native = Mobile Application Framework
*JSX = Client Side Template Engine

So in all if we really want to do any comparison based on strength we can simply compare based on what they do mainly...

Like for DOM Manipulation - jquery, prototype, mootools, Dojo, yui, modernizr etc

For Data Binding - Angular, React, Backbone, Ember, Knockout, Vue, Aurelia etc

There is still Mobile Application Frameworks to,template engine etc but as of today React is the most robust of them all..

To me with the invasion of these Data binding frameworks especially the ones have added DOM Manipulation into their frameworks, the lives of other strictly DOM Manipulation libraries are at stake - jquery in particular...

But I want to say that no matter how powerful that Data binding framework may be... it cannot and can never be a substitute for DOM Manipulation.

Olumyco:
jquery and Angular are two different thing especially based on the purpose for which they were developed. jquery is a library "mainly" for DOM Manipulation. Angular is a framework mainly for Data Binding. Pls note i used the word "mainly".

DOM Manipulation and Data Binding are two different thing in web programming.

Anyway as Google would have it, is like they want their framework to be able to do all things that concerns front end development. At the beginning of the development of Angular it was mainly for Data binding but today Google has gone ahead to include jqlite a library for DOM Manipulation to be part of Angular Framework. So today Angular can do almost what jquery will do. To me I see it as expansion of framework and the eyeopener in the area of DOM Manipulation still remain jquery. I know if jquery wants to compete with these new frameworks... then jquery team can go ahead and build their framework that will perform Data binding. So it a function of purpose... but jquery might not want to loose focus and it is the Boss of DOM manipulation in web programming.

I can see many of the Data binding frameworks are now including DOM Manipulation library into their frameworks.
Like React too has added React DOM to React for DOM Manipulation. Framework 7 a Mobile Application Framework too comes with is own DOM Manipulation called DOM 7 (though it is embedded into the framework).
Infact in terms of addition of many things to avoid external usage... Facebook React is the ring leader. Facebook ensured that React is used for anything development on the client side.... its only server side they are yet to touch.... imagine this

React Ecosystem
*React = Data Binding
*React DOM = DOM Manipulation
*React Native = Mobile Application Framework
*JSX = Client Side Template Engine

So in all if we really want to do any comparison based on strength we can simply compare based on what they do mainly...

Like for DOM Manipulation - jquery, prototype, mootools, Dojo, yui, modernizr etc

For Data Binding - Angular, React, Backbone, Ember, Knockout, Vue, Aurelia etc

There is still Mobile Application Frameworks to,template engine etc but as of today React is the most robust of them all..

To me with the invasion of these Data binding frameworks especially the ones have added DOM Manipulation into their frameworks, the lives of other strictly DOM Manipulation libraries are at stake - jquery in particular...

But I want to say that no matter how powerful that Data binding framework may be... it cannot and can never be a substitute for DOM Manipulation.

I completely disagree with you. I dont really know what your definition of DOM manipulation is but Angular and infact all the new frameworks primary function is focused on DOM manipulation.
Infact its all about DOM manipulation!
Data binding is simply a route to DOM manipulation.
Data binding, directives and all the functionalities are all activities that end up with DOM manipulation so I find it difficult to even follow your submissions.

Arguments don start. . . .

O ga ju, NL programming section people like argument die. To make it interesting guys , give us code samples to drive home your points.

this thread just be like blog, too much talkers and no codes. I no even sabi whom to support sef, i just dey confused.

I still prefer having jquery in my project, due to it's numerous plugins and it is still used in most templates.

I really liked Angularjs, but drop it on a page with jquery and all the jquery plugins stops working, except you write custom directives to reimpliment them. As if jquery and angularjs on a page is not bloated enough.

Backbonejs is really light and works well with jquery, but you need to write more code to accomplish something Angular does easily.

As a Laravel person I had to take a look at Vuejs and I really liked it, it's somewhat between Angular and Backbone. If you are building a SPA with it and still concerned about SEO and old browsers, then you can setup Server-Side Rendering with nodejs for that http://vuejs.org/guide/ssr.html how cool is that?

So, currently I will be sticking with Vuejs + JQuery.

vankaid:

My "jquery is weak" statement which turns out to be the focus cricticism is for a comparism with frameworks earlier made by guru01.
I was specifically comparing it with jquery which he specifically said are all doing the same thing. Which I was trying to disprove.
However, in my most recent post I also made it clear JQuery is a life saver when it didnt have newer stuffs competing with it.
If the offense being taken here is the weak statement, I withdraw it so as not to hurt the feelings of anyone who might believe I am trying to look down on his favourite tool. That however does bot change the essence of the information I am passing there.

You withdraw your comment so as not to "hurt anyone's feelings", what about those who'll then get upset with you for withdrawing your comment?

You are better off sticking with your conviction -within boundaries of civility.

if you read enough programming books, you've seen this before.
It's a race by corporate powers to control the dominant web scripting language - javascript.
2 decades ago, it was microsoft vs netscape , fighting to own the browser language. Netscape's javscript won.
But web developers in that era knew how much pain they had to go thru to create cross platform pages.
It was a real pain in the behind.
Now, that there's no competition to the browser scripting language, the desire to control how it is written,
hasnt waned. They've succeeded in making writing pure js akin to coding in assembly. Nobody except murderous masochists do that anymore. Now, you'v go to subscribe to their new shiny tools.
They've got the funds to assign smart minds to work on making the javascript ecosystem even more fragmented. Instead of harmonising the market place, they're splitting it off so that they could acquire more developermind share. It's all sick. Worse, is that they'll never be a central committee, to standardize the madness and end the excessive proliferation like they was during the browser wars era.

asalimpo:

It's a race by corporate powers to control the dominant web scripting language - javascript.

Now, that there's no competition to the browser scripting language, the desire to control how it is written,
hasnt waned. They've succeeded in making writing pure js akin to coding in assembly. Nobody except murderous masochists do that anymore. Now, you'v go to subscribe to their new shiny tools.
They've got the funds to assign smart minds to work on making the javascript ecosystem even more fragmented. Instead of harmonising the market place, they're splitting it off so that they could acquire more developermind share. It's all sick. Worse, is that they'll never be a central committee, to standardize the madness and end the excessive proliferation like they was during the browser wars era.

You killed it! You actually nailed it, but it died from the wound.

asalimpo:

You withdraw your comment so as not to "hurt anyone's feelings", what about those who'll then get upset with you for withdrawing your comment?

You are better off sticking with your conviction -within boundaries of civility.

That person might perhaps be smart enough to also read the veiled meaning in this:

That however does bot change the essence of the information I am passing there.

See, I know nairaland well enough to understand how easily people can get offended for nothing. Even with all the sugarcoating someone is already throwing punches and I simply have no time for that now.
Admittedly as true as it might be? "JQuery is weak" is a little bit in the extreme and it sounded as something that is lifted off the original post of this thread.
So bro, my convictions are where they were but I dont have to get into a physical or verbal fights to pass them along; afterall I no even see trophy wey we de drag for this oyibo business sef.

jidez007:
I still prefer having jquery in my project, due to it's numerous plugins and it is still used in most templates.

I really liked Angularjs, but drop it on a page with jquery and all the jquery plugins stops working, except you write custom directives to reimpliment them. As if jquery and angularjs on a page is not bloated enough.

Backbonejs is really light and works well with jquery, but you need to write more code to accomplish something Angular does easily.

As a Laravel person I had to take a look at Vuejs and I really liked it, it's somewhat between Angular and Backbone. If you are building a SPA with it and still concerned about SEO and old browsers, then you can setup Server-Side Rendering with nodejs for that http://vuejs.org/guide/ssr.html how cool is that?

So, currently I will be sticking with Vuejs + JQuery.

Angular was not built to just be dropped on a page with jquery or page with anything
Its a framework!
You dont finish your mark up and then factor angular into it, you plan your application on angular first and then you start your markups.

Djtm:

You killed it! You actually nailed it, but it died from the wound.

@asalimpo has hit the nail on the head as usual. This is why i do not try my best

vankaid:

I completely disagree with you. I dont really know what your definition of DOM manipulation is but Angular and infact all the new frameworks primary function is focused on DOM manipulation.
Infact its all about DOM manipulation!
Data binding is simply a route to DOM manipulation.
Data binding, directives and all the functionalities are all activities that end up with DOM manipulation so I find it difficult to even follow your submissions.

Guy I think it is the nomenclature that is the problem.... but U can do ur research very well, DOM Manipulation has its own niche in Web programming and many here knows how it works..... View change and Model change is not DOM Manipulation.... go and get this right..

We don't need to argue just answer the following questions... We are all here to learn, probably U will get me or I get U....

1. What is the work of jqlite library in Angular Framework?
2. What is the meaning of MV architecture of Angular and how is it related to DOM Manipulation since U said the primary function of Angular is DOM Manipulation?
3. What is the difference between a DOM driven app and a Data driven app?
4. Some frameworks like backbone, Vue etc are strictly data binding frameworks so tell me how I can hide, show, slide in, slide out, create an element, add css, animate an element with these frameworks?
5. What Is the difference btw these codes:

i. <p> Hi </p>

ii. <p id='p'></p>

(function() {
document.querySelector('#p').innerHTML = 'Hi';
})();

Olumyco:


Guy I think it is the nomenclature that is the problem.... but U can do ur research very well, DOM Manipulation has its own niche in Web programming and many here knows how it works..... View change and Model change is not DOM Manipulation.... go and get this right..

We don't need to argue just answer the following questions... We are all here to learn, probably U will get me or I get U....

1. What is the work of jqlite library in Angular Framework?
2. What is the meaning of MV architecture of Angular and how is it related to DOM Manipulation since U said the primary function of Angular is DOM Manipulation?
3. What is the difference between a DOM driven app and a Data driven app?
4. Some frameworks like backbone, Vue etc are strictly data binding frameworks so tell me how I can hide, show, slide in, slide out, create an element, add css, animate an element with these frameworks?

Na waa ooo... I dont even know where to start.
Can we even start from finding out what DOM is? then DOM manipulation before anything else.
Your angle of debate left me completely short of words.

To help to redirect, lets both see this link: https://css-tricks.com/dom/
It breaks this issue of DOM down to a kindergarten level. Maybe after going through it you might have more to say to me.
Phew!!!

Olumyco:

5. What Is the difference btw this codes:

i. <p> Hi </p>

ii. <p id='p'></p>

(function() {
document.querySelector('#p').innerHTML = 'Hi';
})();

Ok you added one more important item to your question.
Please tell me the difference between the two markups and relevance of your answer to the argument you are making.

@ Vankaid U could have attempted the questions.....

We are here to learn and it is a fact that jquery does DOM Manipulation and Angular does Data binding and by extension DOM Manipulation thru jqlite.

U could check out these sites.... It will help U

https://www.sitepoint.com/top-javascript-frameworks-libraries-tools-use/

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-key-differences-between-jQuery-and-AngularJS

http://alexbachuk.com/difference-jquery-angular-js/

http://engineering.paiza.io/entry/2015/03/12/145216

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3934826/what-do-people-mean-by-dom-manipulation-and-how-would-i-do-that

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_binding

Olumyco:
@ Vankaid U could have attempted the questions.....

We are here to learn and it is a fact that jquery does DOM Manipulation and Angular does Data binding and by extension DOM Manipulation thru jqlite.

U could check out these sites.... It will help U

https://www.sitepoint.com/top-javascript-frameworks-libraries-tools-use/

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-key-differences-between-jQuery-and-AngularJS

http://alexbachuk.com/difference-jquery-angular-js/

http://engineering.paiza.io/entry/2015/03/12/145216

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3934826/what-do-people-mean-by-dom-manipulation-and-how-would-i-do-that

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_binding

Why will I be attempting your question when you are suposed to be defending your view point.
You dont explain your position by throwing five questions on matter you are supposedly explaining to the other party.
The burden of clearing or explaining anything here is on you unless the question is for a statement I made myself.
I didnt expect it will be easier to send me links than explain what you mean by the things you submitted.
If the links can "help" me why not start by explaining them yourself.

Vankaid and Asalimpo seem to be the only guys that knows what they're talking about.

Nay, i beg to differ, only one person seems to know what he is talking about on this thread (not me mind you). I don't like getting too involved on these matters - i prefer talking with codes.

dhtml18:
Nay, i beg to differ, only one person seems to know what he is talking about on this thread (not me mind you). I don't like getting too involved on these matters - i prefer talking with codes.

Oya talk with code.
Whether they call it data binding, it still boils down to Dom manipulation.

vankaid:

Angular was not built to just be dropped on a page with jquery or page with anything
Its a framework!
You dont finish your mark up and then factor angular into it, you plan your application on angular first and then you start your markups.

Did you read my post at all?

I was talking in terms of templates and plugins. Also most CSS frameworks are still dependent on JQuery.

I wonder why you keep repeating that it's a framework, did anyone here tell you that it's a library? I'm guessing you just started learning Angular.

Backbone and Vue are also JavaScript frameworks and they work well with jquery.