Hati13:
Amhara vs Tigray
Amhara vs Oromo
Abyssinians(Amhara, Tigray and Agaw) vs Oromo
Abyssinians vs other Ethiopians
Whole Ethiopia vs Ethiopia Somalians
Whole Ethiopia vs Oromo
Whole Ethiopia vs Gurage
Habesha vs non-Habesha
North vs South vs East vs West
Etc.......

Don't worry. It's almost the same in Nigeria.

makahlj2:


Don't worry. It's almost the same in Nigeria.

Peace Bro/Sis, this thing needs to be eradicate.

Ersan:


Democracy does not necessarily imply secularism. Only ensures the eligibility of all people for public offices, and the right for people to decide their leaders. Secularism can be added to democracy but one does not necessarily imply the other. North Korea is secular but not democratic. Malaysia is Islamic but democratic.

The bolded is true, but it's the difference between a flawed/hybrid democracy and a full democracy. You cannot have a full democracy without secularization. This is the first time I'm hearing that North Korea is a secular state lol. I guess you haven't heard of the religious persecutions of religious people in NK. Everyone must also submit to the juche ideology, which in some instances contrast religious freedom. If the states with Shariah in Nigeria can adopt more of Malaysia's approach, then we might be having a different conversation. In Malaysia, age of consent is 16 for female and 18 for male with a parent's permission. I don't see much wrong with this, because the margin for consent is not wide and it's very similar to many developed country. There is no reason why a grown man should be married to an underage girl. The age of consent in Nigeria is 18 years and 23 Nigerian states took steps to ban child marriage, so why aren't 13 Northern states not? The Sharia law practiced in Yobe, Borno and Gombe only applies to personal law concerning relationship, property and disputes. You have the same thing in countries with large islamic presence like India, Algeria, Malaysia and Egypt. The criminal code used in the other Shariah states is extreme/inhuman in many instances as well as undemocratic which not only infringe on secularism, but also the democratic foundation of Nigeria. Nigeria is not a true democracy, it's a very compromised democracy.

Nigeria as a whole can never ever be treated with the same approach. The dissimilarity between the north and the south is way too much. Culture, ethnicity religion fashion vegetation cuisine need I go on?

Nah, that's the common narrative based on the flawed political system we have. Nigeria's political divide is much more complex than a North/South divide.

You lot are too intolerant. If the south were to impose some Christian law in southern states we wouldn't care. But you pick apart everything we do though it's none of your business.

We legally are the same country but make no mistake we couldn't be further apart from each other. We must understand that and accept a middle ground but it seems you are uninterested in that.

A middle ground will be complete regionalism and decentralization. You cannot have a country operating on different governing systems. The whole point of living in a country is agreeing on a set governing system. Every region should be in control of their own economic policies. The only mode for unity would be for things like federal reserve, national currency, national armed force, and things of that nature. I'm not talking about the NC, SW, NE... crap, I'm talking about ethnic regionalism like in many parts of Europe.

Ersan:


Northern leaders were not puppets. When the brits came they saw an civilized system of government and leadership. They thought it sane to hand over leadership to those they believed were capable of handling themselves.

Not exactly true, the Europeans practiced policies of favoritism wherever they were. The British deposed of monarchs and chiefs across Nigeria including emirs who didn't comply with them or submit to their role. Many were killed or exiled. They installed "puppets" in many of these cases. The biggest way to gain the trust of the people is to gain the trust of its leaders.

9jakool:

There is no reason why a grown man should be married to an underage girl. The age of consent in Nigeria is 18 years and 23 Nigerian states took steps to ban child marriage, so why aren't 13 Northern states not? The Sharia law practiced in Yobe, Borno and Gombe only applies to personal law concerning relationship, property and disputes. You have the same thing in countries with large islamic presence like India, Algeria , Malaysia and Egypt.

The age of consent and mariage in Algeria is 19 years for man and woman .

chkil0:


The age of consent and mariage in Algeria is 19 years for man and woman .

Beautiful, this is something many in Nigeria need to learn about. Do you know a Nigerian senator once married a 13 year old girl?

in India government is moving towards uniform civil code so no sharia laws for Muslims , or christian laws for Christians

equal and same civil rights for all ( no polygamy , no cousin marriage , females will get equal share in property , no triple talaq , abortion allowed if mothers life in danger , minimum 18 years for marriage etc )

criminals codes/laws r already same for all.

9jakool:

The bolded is true, but it's the difference between a flawed/hybrid democracy and a full democracy. You cannot have a full democracy without secularization. This is the first time I'm hearing that North Korea is a secular state lol.

Well if you didn't know now you know. North Korea is officially a secular state.

I guess you haven't heard of the religious persecutions of religious people in NK. Everyone must also submit to the juche ideology, which in some instances contrast religious freedom.

This has nothing to do with the issue at hand. If anything it just further supports my point. Regardless of their practice, their official stance is that they're a secular state.

If the states with Shariah in Nigeria can adopt more of Malaysia's approach, then we might be having a different conversation. In Malaysia, age of consent is 16 for female and 18 for male with a parent's permission. I don't see much wrong with this, because the margin for consent is not wide and it's very similar to many developed country. There is no reason why a grown man should be married to an underage girl. The age of consent in Nigeria is 18 years and 23 Nigerian states took steps to ban child marriage, so why aren't 13 Northern states not? The Sharia law practiced in Yobe, Borno and Gombe only applies to personal law concerning relationship, property and disputes. You have the same thing in countries with large islamic presence like India, Algeria, Malaysia and Egypt. The criminal code used in the other Shariah states is extreme/inhuman in many instances as well as undemocratic which not only infringe on secularism, but also the democratic foundation of Nigeria. Nigeria is not a true democracy, it's a very compromised democracy.

Again in case you didn't know, age of consent in all northern states is similarly 18. Sharia does not directly specify an age of consent and i admit SOME people reject that constraint for this reason. However i do not know of an educated man in the north who would marry off his daughter before at least finishing secondary school and i believe that should satisfy the age requirements you mentioned.

Whats inhumane or not is extremely subjective. For example i believe locking up some one like an animal in a cage is inhuman, you may disagree but like i said that depends on what your idea of inhumane is. This may infringe secularism but definitely not democracy, stop contradicting yourseld.

Nah, that's the common narrative based on the flawed political system we have. Nigeria's political divide is much more complex than a North/South divide.

Well the south might be a little more complicated but the north, especially at the core... We operate as a single political entity, with similarities in every aspects of the way we live from cuisine to dress code. This is why it is no bother for a man from katsina to successfully become a governor in kaduna. This happens all over the north regardless of region. We have no problems with each other.

The complexities of the south however are none of my concern.

A middle ground will be complete regionalism and decentralization. You cannot have a country operating on different governing systems. The whole point of living in a country is agreeing on a set governing system. Every region should be in control of their own economic policies. The only mode for unity would be for things like federal reserve, national currency, national armed force, and things of that nature. I'm not talking about the NC, SW, NE... crap, I'm talking about ethnic regionalism like in many parts of Europe.

This is a much more reasonable agreement.

Although i disagree with your latter point. Ethnic regionalism cannot work in the north only regionalism. Our ethnic backgrounds are too complicated to the point that we don't know which ethnic group dominates particular states. I see how it could work in the south though. In the end your solutions only echo my earlier claims, things that work in the south don't necessarily work in the north and vice versa.

For me the only solution is the dissolution of this country. Like you said there are undeniable flaws in its foundation, flaws i believe cannot be fixed in donkey years. This is what you described earlier albeit in a ridiculous way. How can regions in the same country have uniquely possess all the things you mentioned and still regard themselves the same country?

And please next time use paragraphs, your post was extremely laborious to read.

Ersan:

Well if you didn't know now you know. North Korea is officially a secular state.

Lol, you are telling me. Oh if I didn't know, as if you needed to tell me. What kind of arrogance is that. You are also the one who said North Korea was not a democratic state, but a secular state. I guess you are using North Korea's definition of secular, which is not secular at all. In fact, the full name of North Korea is Democratic People's Republic of North Korea. If we were to use North Korea's definition, then it would be democratic too in additional to secular. But North Korea in reality is neither secular nor democratic. No one, except for NK would ever think NK is secular or democratic. It's an atheist state with ideals of jucheism which has many religious aspects. All religious people must submit to it. Why do you think so many religious people in North Korea are put in prisons?

This has nothing to do with the issue at hand. If anything it just further supports my point. Regardless of their practice, their official stance is that they're a secular state.

When the state runs and controls the affairs of religions and followers, then it's no longer "secular" because that is the exact contradiction of what secularism is. Anyways, this has little to do with what I'm getting at and you are free to believe what you like to believe.

Again in case you didn't know, age of consent in all northern states is similarly 18. Sharia does not directly specify an age of consent and i admit SOME people reject that constraint for this reason.

Nigeria's age of consent is 18, everybody knows that. The bolded is exactly my point. Sharia in most instances overrides the law of Nigeria and that includes its criminal code. If you go against the age of consent in any parts of Nigeria not governed by Shariah, you can be charged. In states with Sharia, as long as you are Muslim, that criminal code does not apply to you that is why a 80 year old can potentially marry a 13 year old and he/she won't be charged because age of consent isn't recognized.

However i do not know of an educated man in the north who would marry off his daughter before at least finishing secondary school and i believe that should satisfy the age requirements you mentioned.

However there are a lot of the so called "educated" men who wouldn't mind taking an underage girl as a wife. It works both way. Also, just because the rich are less likely to marry off their daughters than the poor does not excuse anything.

Whats inhumane or not is extremely subjective.

Yes, inhumane is a subjective term. For example, what's consider inhumane to a serial killer might be completely different to what's consider inhumane to your average Joe who hasn't murdered a single soul before.

For example i believe locking up some one like an animal in a cage is inhuman, you may disagree but like i said that depends on what your idea of inhumane is.

Ok, let me put out the definition of inhumane from the oxford dictionary. Inhumane: "Without compassion for misery or suffering; cruel." If you think locking someone like an animal in a cage is inhuman, then you should agree that amputating someone's hand for stealing or stoning someone to death is inhumane. Right? Maybe? Yes? No?

This may infringe secularism but definitely not democracy, stop contradicting yourseld.

I already explained this. In that situation, it's called a "flawed democracy" or a compromised democracy. It's not a full democracy, which by the way is hard to achieve. I didn't contradict myself, you don't have to frame me in a dishonest way to prove your point. Let me actually quote what I said. "The bolded is true, but it's the difference between a flawed/hybrid democracy and a full democracy. You cannot have a full democracy without secularization." What was the bolded I'm referencing. This is what you said that i was referencing "Democracy does not necessarily imply secularism." My point was that democracy is more like a spectrum.

Well the south might be a little more complicated but the north, especially at the core... We operate as a single political entity, with similarities in every aspects of the way we live from cuisine to dress code. This is why it is no bother for a man from katsina to successfully become a governor in kaduna. This happens all over the north regardless of region. We have no problems with each other.

The complexities of the south however are none of my concern.

I think otherwise, Northern Nigeria is more complex ethnically speaking and in terms of sectarianism. It's simply the fact. As for political entity, I also think it's more complex than it may seems. The political entity I can agree more on if you are talking about the core North and not the middle belt. You have "no problems with each other," yet you have constant sectarian strife. Again I understand if you are not talking about the North in general, but the core North. This is why I totally support ethnic divide.

This is a much more reasonable agreement.

Although i disagree with your latter point. Ethnic regionalism cannot work in the north only regionalism. Our ethnic backgrounds are too complicated to the point that we don't know which ethnic group dominates particular states. I see how it could work in the south though. In the end your solutions only echo my earlier claims, things that work in the south don't necessarily work in the north and vice versa.

Of course some people are going to lose out if ethnic regionalism were to happen, so many won't want it. When I am talking about ethnic regionalism, I'm not talking about states division. Those states are created from excisting states so you can create aditional states if you want. Lol, I also like your logic. You know the North is so complicated that we don't want simpler ethnic division. Here is a thing though, it's worked in the past before, so it can work again. When the outsiders from Britain created the Western region, Eastern region, and the Northern region in 1954, there was a restruction of the Western region. A referendum was given to ethnic groups in the Western region after independence to create a new region, the Midwestern region. Edo/edoid people and ethnic groups who share affinity with Edoid people were granted a regional autonomy. There was also a boundary/state adjustment that took place after. The same can be said for the North, all ethnic groups who share affinity with one another can be group together to form a regional identity. Nupe and Gbagyi people can be grouped together; Yoruba and affliated groups; Idoma and Igala; Tiv and Jukun; Plateau and Southern Kaduna; and Hausa and affiliated groups can all be grouped together into ethnic regions. The situation may look well different from this, but something of a similar nature. This is how it's done elsewhere like Europe, Americas and many parts of Asia and Africa.

For me the only solution is the dissolution of this country. Like you said there are undeniable flaws in its foundation, flaws i believe cannot be fixed in donkey years. This is what you described earlier albeit in a ridiculous way. How can regions in the same country have uniquely possess all the things you mentioned and still regard themselves the same country?

That's another option. Nigeria is more complex than Odua, Arewa, and Biafra. Those alone cannot be the only options.

And please next time use paragraphs, your post was extremely laborious to read.

Lol, questioning my grammar, usage, and mechanics when you yourself don't adhere to proper English writing conversion. However, I have no personal issues concerning this. It's a public forum for crying out loud, not a grammar lesson class. Deal with it!

9jakool:

Lol, you are telling me. Oh if I didn't know, as if you needed to tell me. What kind of arrogance is that. You are also the one who said North Korea was not a democratic state, but a secular state. I guess you are using North Korea's definition of secular, which is not secular at all. In fact, the full name of North Korea is Democratic People's Republic of North Korea. If we were to use North Korea's definition, then it would be democratic too in additional to secular. But North Korea in reality is neither secular nor democratic. No one, except for NK would ever think NK is secular or democratic. It's an atheist state with ideals of jucheism which has many religious aspects. All religious people must submit to it. Why do you think so many religious people in North Korea are put in prisons?

Perceived democracy in korea and most of asia is influenced by the communist soviet idea of democracy which is different from conventional democracy. It cannot satisfy any criteria of democracy and the fact that they call themselves that is very laughable.

North koreas idea of secularism is conventional in that it is not religious, granted there are certain incidents of persecution of the christian population which constitute a little over 1% of total population. This is mostly because they believe its principles pose a threat to the government.

When the state runs and controls the affairs of religions and followers, then it's no longer "secular" because that is the exact contradiction of what secularism is. Anyways, this has little to do with what I'm getting at and you are free to believe what you like to believe.

I disagree, a state has every right to set limits in order to make sure religion doesn't overlap its principles. This is true of every secular state in the world.

Nigeria's age of consent is 18, everybody knows that. The bolded is exactly my point. Sharia in most instances overrides the law of Nigeria and that includes its criminal code. If you go against the age of consent in any parts of Nigeria not governed by Shariah, you can be charged. In states with Sharia, as long as you are Muslim, that criminal code does not apply to you that is why a 80 year old can potentially marry a 13 year old and he/she won't be charged because age of consent isn't recognized.

Which is why i said SOME people take advantage of this.

However there are a lot of the so called "educated" men who wouldn't mind taking an underage girl as a wife. It works both way. Also, just because the rich are less likely to marry off their daughters than the poor does not excuse anything.

I know who you speak of but i wonder if you've ever seen this "wife" of his. You need to stop ingesting every load of bile the media puts out.

Yes, inhumane is a subjective term. For example, what's consider inhumane to a serial killer might be completely different to what's consider inhumane to your average Joe who hasn't murdered a single soul before.

Ok, let me put out the definition of inhumane from the oxford dictionary. Inhumane: "Without compassion for misery or suffering; cruel." If you think locking someone like an animal in a cage is inhuman, then you should agree that amputating someone's hand for stealing or stoning someone to death is inhumane. Right? Maybe? Yes? No?

Amputation is a lot more human. Swift, permanent and a much better guarantee of redemption. Plus, the person is marked for life so...

I already explained this. In that situation, it's called a "flawed democracy" or a compromised democracy. It's not a full democracy, which by the way is hard to achieve. I didn't contradict myself, you don't have to frame me in a dishonest way to prove your point. Let me actually quote what I said. "The bolded is true, but it's the difference between a flawed/hybrid democracy and a full democracy. You cannot have a full democracy without secularization." What was the bolded I'm referencing. This is what you said that i was referencing "Democracy does not necessarily imply secularism." My point was that democracy is more like a spectrum.

My claims are very simple, a state can be perfectly democratic and religious at the same time. Again, many countries in the world prove this. You delve too deeply and end up confusing yourself with tenants of constitution and other complicated aspects.

I think otherwise, Northern Nigeria is more complex ethnically speaking and in terms of sectarianism. It's simply the fact. As for political entity, I also think it's more complex than it may seems. The political entity I can agree more on if you are talking about the core North and not the middle belt. You have "no problems with each other," yet you have constant sectarian strife. Again I understand if you are not talking about the North in general, but the core North. This is why I totally support ethnic divide.

Until recently for whatever reason that maybe, even the "middle belt" was in fact an integral part of the north. This is why the north would have no problem staging a coup and handing power over to a middlebeltan.

Of course some people are going to lose out if ethnic regionalism were to happen, so many won't want it. When I am talking about ethnic regionalism, I'm not talking about states division. Those states are created from excisting states so you can create aditional states if you want. Lol, I also like your logic. You know the North is so complicated that we don't want simpler ethnic division. Here is a thing though, it's worked in the past before, so it can work again. When the outsiders from Britain created the Western region, Eastern region, and the Northern region in 1954, there was a restruction of the Western region. A referendum was given to ethnic groups in the Western region after independence to create a new region, the Midwestern region. Edo/edoid people and ethnic groups who share affinity with Edoid people were granted a regional autonomy. There was also a boundary/state adjustment that took place after. The same can be said for the North, all ethnic groups who share affinity with one another can be group together to form a regional identity. Nupe and Gbagyi people can be grouped together; Yoruba and affliated groups; Idoma and Igala; Tiv and Jukun; Plateau and Southern Kaduna; and Hausa and affiliated groups can all be grouped together into ethnic regions. The situation may look well different from this, but something of a similar nature. This is how it's done elsewhere like Europe, Americas and many parts of Asia and Africa.

Yikes.... paragraphs?

You make strong points but you make a lot of mistakes. For instance, nupes definitely feel closer to hausas than they do gbagyis. Idomas and igalas will not get along in the same country. When you try to get too nitpicky you just create abominations.

That's another option. Nigeria is more complex than Odua, Arewa, and Biafra. Those alone cannot be the only options.

For me i think the north is that simple. Like i said earlier, when you start to get to nitpicky, their geography and chemistry will betray you.

Lol, questioning my grammar, usage, and mechanics when you yourself don't adhere to proper English writing conversion. However, I have no personal issues concerning this. It's a public forum for crying out loud, not a grammar lesson class. Deal with it!

I am not questioning your grammar small fry, i am merely suggesting that you try to make your posts easier to read. You compress everything into very long statements. Its very hard to read.

What nonsense is going on here.

Can't believe a such rabid case of Igbophobia was thriving on this thread without the culprits being made to pay.

I will be back to correct all lies levied against Ndiigbo here by Ersan or whatever he calls himself and ensure a healthy dose of his hate is concentrated and sent back to consume him and whatever place he is from.

I will be back!

What a nonsense!

You constantly whine and brag and throw insults
when inherently no ethnic group has done more
damage to the image of this country than you lot.
You instigate against others.You destroyed
democracy is in this country together with any
sympathy the north will ever have for you the day
you orchestrated the first military coup.

How can a Northerner, from a Boko Haram terrorist region, whose activities had brought shame to Nigeria have the audacity to talk about Ndiigbo?

A person whose people looted the colonial entity called Nigeria into 3rd world country. A people who despite their grip on power have remained a source of embarrassment to the whole country, in all indices of development?

Who destroyed what democracy? Wasn't it Gowon who dissolved the regions after Ironsi death, looted the country dry and whose incompetence left the country poor in midst of riches? Who killed the second republic?

How about IBB, Abacha( whose loot) we are still recovering.

What exactly has the North contributed to Nigeria?

Where are your Kanu Nwankwo, Okonjo, Achebe, Adichie, Ajunwa, Mikels, Okocha, Amunike,etc?

They overthrew the innocent prime minister and our
greatest ever leader. Then when they got a taste of
their own medicine they became salty. Followed
one of their own into a war they could never win.
They are the architects of their own suffering.
Northern leaders were not puppets. When the brits
came they saw an civilized system of government
and leadership. They thought it sane to hand over
leadership to those they believed were capable of
handling themselves. The igbos were especially
never in contention.

Who are they you speak of?

What taste of medicine do you speak of? Was 1966 the first time you blood thirsty people went on killing spree of Innocent Igbo civilians?

What War do you speak of, the one you brought to our door steps? What we you expecting? for us to give up without putting up a fight? You are a clown.

The British simply saw a people easier to manipulate, a subservient people very well suited for their imperialist agenda, nothing more, nothing less.

The Igbos were a society built on democracy and freedom, they were never going to accept imperialism, the British knew that.

So, you can as well get over yourself.

Ersan:


Perceived democracy in korea and most of asia is influenced by the communist soviet idea of democracy which is different from conventional democracy. It cannot satisfy any criteria of democracy and the fact that they call themselves that is very laughable.

North koreas idea of secularism is conventional in that it is not religious, granted there are certain incidents of persecution of the christian population which constitute a little over 1% of total population. This is mostly because they believe its principles pose a threat to the government.

Lol "percieved" democracy is sure right. There is only one definition. You are either democratic or not. I guess there's nothing wrong or non-secular about persecution of minorities.
Then again, there is no point arguing with you about this, you've made up your mind.

I disagree, a state has every right to set limits in order to make sure religion doesn't overlap its principles. This is true of every secular state in the world.

You know in your heart that what you just said is misleading.
Let me put it in right choice of words
* Yes, a state and any state for that matter has every right to limit religion pertaining with its principle.
* A secular state can regulate religions. Learn the difference between to limit and to regulate.
* A Secular democratic country can regulate religions so that the religion doesn't infringe on personal rights.
* A secular democratic country cannot persecute religious adherents by infringing on their personal human rights.

Which is why i said SOME people take advantage of this.

This is why such laws should not exist if people can simply "take advantage" of loopholes.

I know who you speak of but i wonder if you've ever seen this "wife" of his. You need to stop ingesting every load of bile the media puts out.

I guess you now speak out for the man now. He simply denies the girl was 13, he did not deny she was not a child. Even Egyptian officials say that the girl was still in school. He's also a defender of child marriage, that alone is disgusting in itself. What you should be doing is condemning his actions, not defending them.

Amputation is a lot more human. Swift, permanent and a much better guarantee of redemption. Plus, the person is marked for life so...

Says who? Not according to human rights org, it's not. I guess we are just going to skip over the stoning parts.

My claims are very simple, a state can be perfectly democratic and religious at the same time. Again, many countries in the world prove this. You delve too deeply and end up confusing yourself with tenants of constitution and other complicated aspects.

My claims still remain that democracy is a spectrum and.

For me i think the north is that simple. Like i said earlier, when you start to get to nitpicky, their geography and chemistry will betray you.

Until recently for whatever reason that maybe, even the "middle belt" was in fact an integral part of the north. This is why the north would have no problem staging a coup and handing power over to a middlebeltan.

Bolded is very important. The divide is becoming more apparent recently, however it was always histroric. Many ethnic groups fought in the MD belt against the domination of the Sokoto caliphate. Some were conquered, others were not. The constant ethnic violence is a manifestation of this. You have indigines vs settlers conflict. Tiv vs neighboring ethnic groups, Yoruba vs Northern demarcation, Fulani herdsmen vs indigine farmers, Igala vs neighboring groups, and middle belt vs Core North.
Who are you joking with, the North is not simple, hence you won't have so many inter-tribal and sectarian strives. The Northern identity was forged by the British. It was not a natural alliance to begin with.

Yikes.... paragraphs?

Deal with it.

You make strong points but you make a lot of mistakes. For instance, nupes definitely feel closer to hausas than they do gbagyis. Idomas and igalas will not get along in the same country. When you try to get too nitpicky you just create abominations.

I gave an example. I understand that is why I said specifically that "the situation may look well different from this, but something of a similar nature." I suppose you didn't catch that part.

I am not questioning your grammar small fry, i am merely suggesting that you try to make your posts easier to read. You compress everything into very long statements. Its very hard to read.

Long is relative. What's consider long to me is different to yours. I write how I feel comfortable. If you don't like it, then I guess it's unfortunate.

9jakool:

Lol "percieved" democracy is sure right. There is only one definition. You are either democratic or not. I guess there's nothing wrong or non-secular about persecution of minorities.
Then again, there is no point arguing with you about this, you've made up your mind.


You know in your heart that what you just said is misleading.
Let me put it in right choice of words
* Yes, a state and any state for that matter has every right to limit religion pertaining with its principle.
* A secular state can regulate religions. Learn the difference between to limit and to regulate.
* A Secular democratic country can regulate religions so that the religion doesn't infringe on personal rights.
* A secular democratic country cannot persecute religious adherents by infringing on their personal human rights.



This is why such laws should not exist if people can simply "take advantage" of loopholes.

I guess you now speak out for the man now. He simply denies the girl was 13, he did not deny she was not a child. Even Egyptian officials say that the girl was still in school. He's also a defender of child marriage, that alone is disgusting in itself. What you should be doing is condemning his actions, not defending them.


Says who? Not according to human rights org, it's not. I guess we are just going to skip over the stoning parts.


My claims still remain that democracy is a spectrum and.


Bolded is very important. The divide is becoming more apparent recently, however it was always histroric. Many ethnic groups fought in the MD belt against the domination of the Sokoto caliphate. Some were conquered, others were not. The constant ethnic violence is a manifestation of this. You have indigines vs settlers conflict. Tiv vs neighboring ethnic groups, Yoruba vs Northern demarcation, Fulani herdsmen vs indigine farmers, Igala vs neighboring groups, and middle belt vs Core North.
Who are you joking with, the North is not simple, hence you won't have so many inter-tribal and sectarian strives. The Northern identity was forged by the British. It was not a natural alliance to begin with.


Deal with it.


I gave an example. I understand that is why I said specifically that "the situation may look well different from this, but something of a similar nature." I suppose you didn't catch that part.


Long is relative. What's consider long to me is different to yours. I write how I feel comfortable. If you don't like it, then I guess it's unfortunate.

Awesome opinion of yours.

9jakool:

Lol "percieved" democracy is sure right. There is only one definition. You are either democratic or not. I guess there's nothing wrong or non-secular about persecution of minorities.
Then again, there is no point arguing with you about this, you've made up your mind.

Frankly this whole debate can just be summed up as that for both parties.

You know in your heart that what you just said is misleading.
Let me put it in right choice of words
* Yes, a state and any state for that matter has every right to limit religion pertaining with its principle.
* A secular state can regulate religions. Learn the difference between to limit and to regulate.
* A Secular democratic country can regulate religions so that the religion doesn't infringe on personal rights.
* A secular democratic country cannot persecute religious adherents by infringing on their personal human rights.

A secular state is an idea pertaining to secularism, whereby a state is or purports to be officially neutral in matters of religion, supporting neither religion nor irreligion.

Stop making things too complicated. You can't accuse north korea of supporting one religion over the other, period.

This is why such laws should not exist if people can simply "take advantage" of loopholes.

I guess you now speak out for the man now. He simply denies the girl was 13, he did not deny she was not a child. Even Egyptian officials say that the girl was still in school. He's also a defender of child marriage, that alone is disgusting in itself. What you should be doing is condemning his actions, not defending them.

There are 18/20 year olds still in school. Point is if you can't prove she's a child then you can't point fingers at him. Besides, at which age does a person stop being a child? Thats another subjective issue see...

Says who? Not according to human rights org, it's not. I guess we are just going to skip over the stoning parts.

Whose human rights? what is human rights? how much rights should a human be afforded? which human has the authority to decide that? Subjectivity makes every argument inconclusive in my opinion.

Bolded is very important. The divide is becoming more apparent recently, however it was always histroric. Many ethnic groups fought in the MD belt against the domination of the Sokoto caliphate. Some were conquered, others were not. The constant ethnic violence is a manifestation of this. You have indigines vs settlers conflict. Tiv vs neighboring ethnic groups, Yoruba vs Northern demarcation, Fulani herdsmen vs indigine farmers, Igala vs neighboring groups, and middle belt vs Core North.
Who are you joking with, the North is not simple, hence you won't have so many inter-tribal and sectarian strives. The Northern identity was forged by the British. It was not a natural alliance to begin with.

There is conflict even between mono ethnic regions. The north is the north, that is all.

Deal with it.

Thats not very nice.

I gave an example. I understand that is why I said specifically that "the situation may look well different from this, but something of a similar nature." I suppose you didn't catch that part.

I guess i didn't

Long is relative. What's consider long to me is different to yours. I write how I feel comfortable. If you don't like it, then I guess it's unfortunate.

Throughout this whole argument the only theme we agree on is how much opinions and feelings influence ones view of everything.

In the end my objective is to learn as many point of views as possible, not try to instill mine into the minds of others because in most cases its an exercise in futility. We can simply agree to disagree....

pazienza:
What nonsense is going on here.

Can't believe a such rabid case of Igbophobia was thriving on this thread without the culprits being made to pay.

Oh no one can speak facts about the great and mighty igbo race, they are far too great to be criticized. The echoes of perfection, anyone who doesn't praise their invincibility must be an igbophobe.

I will be back to correct all lies levied against Ndiigbo here by Ersan or whatever he calls himself and ensure a healthy dose of his hate is concentrated and sent back to consume him and whatever place he is from.

I will be back!

What a nonsense!

No need, i bow to your mighty and ever great Semitic race of superior beings.


Jeez! some peoples mind is made of glass, one strike and it shatters. And this is one of my most conservative and less profane criticism of igbos. Lol

Ersan:


Frankly this whole debated can just be summed up as that for both parties.

Your loss! I don't care.

A secular state is an idea pertaining to secularism, whereby a state is or purports to be officially neutral in matters of religion, supporting neither religion nor irreligion.

I guess the ideals of jucheism is secular by you. As part of North Korean nation law, you must recognize former Korean leader Kim Il-sung as the "supreme deity for the people." You know what, you are right, this is a state being neutral. In fact, I'm sure you won't mind worshiping the statue of the "supreme leader."

Stop making things too complicated. You can't accuse north korea of supporting one religion over the other, period.

Oh what? Who could have guess? Apparently, political science is complicated. It's not like people major in this field or anything...What is that? They do? So, it's complicated. Nahhhhhhhhhhh.

There are 18/20 year olds still in school. Point is if you can't prove she's a child then you can't point fingers at him. Besides, at which age does a person stop being a child? Thats another subjective issue see...

What, we are going to speculate on the slight possibility that the girl may be at least 18. Then again, the guy also advocates for underage marriage? That for me alone marks the red line.

You see Ersan, age for adulthood is not as subjective as you may think. According to science, your brain stops growing somewhere in the mid 20s with 25 being average. 18 is pushing at the bare minimum, so sorry if you like underage marriage, but it's not compatible with this day and age. For girls, you also have higher risks for developing cervical cancer, contracting STDs, and having deaths during childbirth. There's also the issue of pelvis expansion. The female pelvis fully expands by 20s. The reason for this is to reduce complications during childbirth which could lead to fistula. Teenage pregnancies have a high risk of miscarriage/still birth since the baby pelvis is too narrow for the baby. The baby could become stuck and hence why someone could be in labor for days or up to a week. This leads to fistula openings in the digestive and urinary tracks.

Whose human rights? what is human rights? how much rights should a human be afforded? which human has the authority to decide that? Subjectivity makes every argument inconclusive in my opinion.

Look at the universal definition.

There is conflict even between mono ethnic regions. The north is the north, that is all.

Ethnic conflicts within the same ethnic groups happens everywhere, so no excuses. In fact that same thing you said is in addition to the conflict zones I listed earlier is why the North is not as simple. Redraw and adjust the borders, move away from British demarcation and maybe, the power struggle we constantly see in the political, ethnic, and sectarian arenas would be lessened.

Thats not very nice.

Grow a thick skin "small fry."

Throughout this whole argument the only theme we agree on is how much opinions and feelings influence ones view of everything.

In the end my objective is to learn as many point of views as possible, not try to instill mine into the minds of others because in most cases its an exercise in futility. We can simply agree to disagree....

You know what, you are right. I should learn to understand why a state would use violence against its own people. Maybe I should learn opinions of murderers and horrendous people, as they have very contrasting values and opinions from me. Maybe, I shouldn't tell people how bad their horrendous practices are because I'm trying to respect their opinion, because you know that will be instilling mine into the minds of others and I don't want to do that.

..........

"Oh did you just stone that woman to death?"
"It's fine, I'm going to be very civil even though I clearly disagree and you don't see what's wrong with the fact that YOU JUST STONED SOMEONE TO DEATH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD."
"What did she do? Did she burned someone alive to deserve this "inhumane" punishment. See what I did there, I quoted inhumane.
You know why, because to some people stoning someone to death is actually a humanly thing to do as it is not inhumane at all."
"So she had a child out of wedlock. No way, so is the father stoned too?
"What? You mean he was released. Why?"
"Our system is "perceived democracy" where we say something and do the exact same opposite. You see in our democratic system, it's very special because everyone is actually not equal."
"Ok, that totally makes perfect sense."

REGISTERED!

9jakool:

Your loss! I don't care.

I guess the ideals of jucheism is secular by you. As part of North Korean nation law, you must recognize former Korean leader Kim Il-sung as the "supreme deity for the people." You know what, you are right, this is a state being neutral. In fact, I'm sure you won't mind worshiping the statue of the "supreme leader."

So now you're accusing jucheism of being a religion yeah? *sigh

Oh what? Who could have guess? Apparently, political science is complicated. It's not like people major in this field or anything...What is that? They do? So, it's complicated. Nahhhhhhhhhhh.

Maths is complicated, doesn't mean 1+1 isn't simply equal to 2. Some things are too trivial small fry.

What, we are going to speculate on the slight possibility that the girl may be at least 18. Then again, the guy also advocates for underage marriage? That for me alone marks the red line.

You see Ersan, age for adulthood is not as subjective as you may think. According to science, your brain stops growing somewhere in the mid 20s with 25 being average. 18 is pushing at the bare minimum, so sorry if you like underage marriage, but it's not compatible with this day and age. For girls, you also have higher risks for developing cervical cancer, contracting STDs, and having deaths during childbirth. There's also the issue of pelvis expansion. The female pelvis fully expands by 20s. The reason for this is to reduce complications during childbirth which could lead to fistula. Teenage pregnancies have a high risk of miscarriage/still birth since the baby pelvis is too narrow for the baby. The baby could become stuck and hence why someone could be in labor for days or up to a week. This leads to fistula openings in the digestive and urinary tracks.

SMH, you use brain growth as your measure, i could use puberty which is a much more reliable and sensible measure (see? subjectivity) which for females starts at 9-11 and ends at 14-17 at most. God made nature, nature has order, puberty signifies sexual maturity. In my opinion once a person completes that then he/or she is no longer a child.

Thats neglecting the fact that the size of a persons brain has absolutely NOTHING to do with intelligence.

And as to your claims about the female pelvis' full expansion, you couldnt be more wrong. The female pelvis fully expands between the age of 25-30. Maybe that should be the age of consent yeah? smh. And if you've ever had coi.tus (seriosuly? this word is censored? wtf is wrong with you people?) with a girl younger than 25 you're a pedo.phile and a rapist.

This is either the epitome of intellectual dishonesty or you're just throwing sh.t on the wall and hoping something sticks. Its comical.

Look at the universal definition.


Ethnic conflicts within the same ethnic groups happens everywhere, so no excuses. In fact that same thing you said is in addition to the conflict zones I listed earlier is why the North is not as simple. Redraw and adjust the borders, move away from British demarcation and maybe, the power struggle we constantly see in the political, ethnic, and sectarian arenas would be lessened.

It's not that simple, some regions are sandwiched, others undefinable, you cant just go about creating chaos. The north is the north and will remain the way it is and always has been. Period.

Grow a thick skin "small fry."

How sad, you actually think i'm taking you seriously.

You know what, you are right. I should learn to understand why a state would use violence against its own people. Maybe I should learn opinions of murderers and horrendous people, as they have very contrasting values and opinions from me. Maybe, I shouldn't tell people how bad their horrendous practices are because I'm trying to respect their opinion, because you know that will be instilling mine into the minds of others and I don't want to do that.

Hanging isn't violence yeah? electrocution isnt violence yeah? It seems you are too thickheaded to grab anything, stating your opinions is different from instilling your opinion. You are free to express whichever brand of epic stupidity you choose to, that's what forums like this are for.

..........

"Oh did you just stone that woman to death?"
"It's fine, I'm going to be very civil even though I clearly disagree and you don't see what's wrong with the fact that YOU JUST STONED SOMEONE TO DEATH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD."
"What did she do? Did she burned someone alive to deserve this "inhumane" punishment. See what I did there, I quoted inhumane.
You know why, because to some people stoning someone to death is actually a humanly thing to do as it is not inhumane at all."
"So she had a child out of wedlock. No way, so is the father stoned too?
"What? You mean he was released. Why?"
"Our system is "perceived democracy" where we say something and do the exact same opposite. You see in our democratic system, it's very special because everyone is actually not equal."
"Ok, that totally makes perfect sense."

REGISTERED!

Now you're just ranting. What i can pick up is your criticism of accused lopsidedness in punishment. Just so you know, the punishment for a man and a woman is exactly the same. Besides, you'd have to be pretty stuupid to fall victim of such punishment anywhere in the world. You should read the requirements...

Ersan:

So now you're accusing jucheism of being a religion yeah? *sigh

I never said that. Go back and show me where I said jucheism is a religion before you start making false accusations. I'm certain that you didn't even know what it is prior to this hence you won't be saying North Korea is secular. All I'm saying is that jucheism ideology is not a secular. Also why are dodging my question? Would you mind bowing to the statue of the "supreme leader" and worshiping him ?

Maths is complicated, doesn't mean 1+1 isn't simply equal to 2. Some things are too trivial small fry.

Just stop. Also, you learn math as a child including that basic arithmetic up there. Political science is a higher level course. Also, Math is generally is either wrong or right. The whole point of political science is to not attain a set definition, but to arrive at multiple schools of thoughts.

SMH, you use brain growth as your measure, i could use puberty which is a much more reliable and sensible measure (see? subjectivity) which for females starts at 9-11 and ends at 14-17 at most. God made nature, nature has order, puberty signifies sexual maturity. In my opinion once a person completes that then he/or she is no longer a child.

Thats neglecting the fact that the size of a persons brain has absolutely NOTHING to do with intelligence.

Shake your head all you want. Just make sure you don't shake it for too long because you don't want what's left of your common sense to leave.

Puberty is one way, but it's not perfect. Nature does have order, but it's not up to nature alone, there is also idea of nurture. Factors like environment, stress, diet, and body weight can affect puberty. Those are independent factors that can affect the puberty process including age. Adulthood is so much more than your ability to reproduce or sexual maturity. Adulthood also comes with emotional and mental maturity.

It's brain growth, not brain size. Neurons making new connections, further mylenization of white matter, and other things of that nature. Ahrrgh, why do I even bother?

And as to your claims about the female pelvis' full expansion, you couldnt be more wrong. The female pelvis fully expands between the age of 25-30. Maybe that should be the age of consent yeah? smh. And if you've ever had coi.tus (seriosuly? this word is censored? wtf is wrong with you people?) with a girl younger than 25 you're a pedo.phile and a rapist.

This is either the epitome of intellectual dishonesty or you're just throwing sh.t on the wall and hoping something sticks. Its comical.

For the bolded, again you don't have to invent lies. This is the second time in one post alone. Go back and check what I actually said before you jump into conclusion.

"Wtf is wrong with you people?" Last I check, I'm not the one in charge of NL so stop your projections, you are just frustrated.

After lying twice in a single post, turns around and shouts dishonesty to the other person. It's not comical, it's simply sad maybe even a bit hypocritical.

It's not that simple, some regions are sandwiched, others undefinable, you cant just go about creating chaos. The north is the north and will remain the way it is and always has been. Period.

Ok, how about this the parts that can be divided or restructured will be and the parts that can't be will be left alone.
This is the real matter for this discussion in the first place.

Hanging isn't violence yeah? electrocution isnt violence yeah? It seems you are too thickheaded to grab anything, stating your opinions is different from instilling your opinion. You are free to express whichever brand of epic stupidity you choose to, that's what forums like this are for.

We are not talking about hanging or electrocution and I'm not going to talk about them. You just want distractions. That's what you've been doing all along. We are talking about stoning as an inhumane punishment in relationship to something like having a child out of wedlock. You already said amputation for theft is justified, so I've moved on to stoning. Also, thank you for your ad hominem remarks. You are just revealing your true sides. It's alright though, people bring out the worsts in people.

Now you're just ranting. What i can pick up is your criticism of accused lopsidedness in punishment. Just so you know, the punishment for a man and a woman is exactly the same. Besides, you'd have to be pretty stuupid to fall victim of such punishment anywhere in the world. You should read the requirements...

You know what, you are right, let me go back and rant some more.

"Can you tell me more about the perceived democracy you speak of? I'm not really sure everyone is equal."
"So every one is not equal, but someone told me everyone is equal."
"You mean the man is not subjected to the same burden of proofing a child is not out of wedlock. What exactly do you mean?"
"Ok, so only the woman has to show proof meaning that only the woman gets stoned in this instance."
"But how?"
"The persecutor has to have four witnesses. But what happens in this case if the persecutor can't provide the witnesses?"
"What? The man is let go, but not the woman."
"Ok, so the woman is stupid so she deserves stoning."
"Ok, I now understand the perceived democracy you speak of."

9jakool:

I never said that. Go back and show me where I said jucheism is a religion before you start making false accusations. I'm certain that you didn't even know what it is prior to this hence you won't be saying North Korea is secular. All I'm saying is that jucheism ideology is not a secular. Also why are dodging my question? Would you mind bowing to the statue of the "supreme leader" and worshiping him ?

I am truly sorry but i have to point this out to you. Frankly, I do not think you're a very smart person. It seems for some reason you cant understand the simplest of statements.

What i know about north korea... Small fry you've never even met a north korean in your life. Unless you can prove Jucheism is a religion or favors any particular religion then you have no idea what you're talking about. All sorts of myths about their supreme leader (the dead one) are taught in their schools. North korea couldn't care less about religion, they do this to instill love and fear into their people and ensure their subjugation.

Just stop. Also, you learn math as a child including that basic arithmetic up there. Political science is a higher level course. Also, Math is generally is either wrong or right. The whole point of political science is to not attain a set definition, but to arrive at multiple schools of thoughts.

My God. What is wrong with you? And this whole topic isn't basic political science? What fits into secularism (a set ideology) or not?

Shake your head all you want. Just make sure you don't shake it for too long because you don't want what's left of your common sense to leave.

You would know. You've absolutely lost the plot small fry, thats if you had it in the first place.

Puberty is one way, but it's not perfect. Nature does have order, but it's not up to nature alone, there is also idea of nurture. Factors like environment, stress, diet, and body weight can affect puberty. Those are independent factors that can affect the puberty process including age. Adulthood is so much more than your ability to reproduce or sexual maturity. Adulthood also comes with emotional and mental maturity.

So how do you measure that? Lmao! You keep shooting yourself in the foot.

It's brain growth, not brain size. Neurons making new connections, further mylenization of white matter, and other things of that nature. Ahrrgh, why do I even bother?

Exactly, stop saying rubbish. You have no idea what you're talking about.

For the bolded, again you don't have to invent lies. This is the second time in one post alone. Go back and check what I actually said before you jump into conclusion.

I admit misunderstanding on my end here, mostly because of your nonchalant way of writing which i have warned you multiple times about.

That still doesn't hinder my inquiry. Does the fact that it stops growing in the 20s means age of consent should be somewhere in that region?

"Wtf is wrong with you people?" Last I check, I'm not the one in charge of NL so stop your projections, you are just frustrated.

All you southerners are the same to me.

After lying twice in a single post, turns around and shouts dishonesty to the other person. It's not comical, it's simply sad maybe even a bit hypocritical.

Lying is something the ignorant or misinformed do. I have never intentionally commented any falsity on this forum. You on the other hand lie on just about every post especially because most of the things you type here is absolute rubbish and you need all the help in the world to back your moronic claims up.

Ok, how about this the parts that can be divided or restructured will be and the parts that can't be will be left alone.
This is the real matter for this discussion in the first place.

Just stop it, okay? Until we start shouting for restructuring then we don't need it, we are absolutely fine.

We are not talking about hanging or electrocution and I'm not going to talk about them. You just want distractions. That's what you've been doing all along. We are talking about stoning as an inhumane punishment in relationship to something like having a child out of wedlock. You already said amputation for theft is justified, so I've moved on to stoning. Also, thank you for your ad hominem remarks. You are just revealing your true sides. It's alright though, people bring out the worsts in people.

And i pointed out that if you're stupid enough to get caught then maybe you deserve to be stoned.

I simply implied that people come here so they can meet others who appreciate their foolishness. If you think you fit the profile that's on you, not me.

You know what, you are right, let me go back and rant some more.

"Can you tell me more about the perceived democracy you speak of? I'm not really sure everyone is equal."
"So every one is not equal, but someone told me everyone is equal."
"You mean the man is not subjected to the same burden of proofing a child is not out of wedlock. What exactly do you mean?"
"Ok, so only the woman has to show proof meaning that only the woman gets stoned in this instance."
"But how?"
"The persecutor has to have four witnesses. But what happens in this case if the persecutor can't provide the witnesses?"
"What? The man is let go, but not the woman."
"Ok, so the woman is stupid so she deserves stoning."
"Ok, I now understand the perceived democracy you speak of."

You know what, you're right.

Let me simply ignore your rant.

Ersan:


I am truly sorry but i have to point this out to you. Frankly, I do not think you're a very smart person. It seems for some reason you cant understand the simplest of statements.

What i know about north korea... Small fry you've never even met a north korean in your life. Unless you can prove Jucheism is a religion or favors any particular religion then you have no idea what you're talking about. All sorts of myths about their supreme leader (the dead one) are taught in their schools. North korea couldn't care less about religion, they do this to instill love and fear into their people and ensure their subjugation.




My God. What is wrong with you? And this whole topic isn't basic political science? What fits into secularism (a set ideology) or not?




You would know. You've absolutely lost the plot small fry, thats if you had it in the first place.

First of all, I'll appreciate if you would answer my original question. It's a yes or no question.

Second, my claim is even though North Korea call itself democratic and secular, it doesn't behave like a democratic nor a secular country. North Korea does favor a religion. Cheondoism is often regarded as the national religion by North Korean government because of its history. It's the only religion that's favored by the government as it receives political representation.

So how do you measure that? Lmao! You keep shooting yourself in the foot.

This is not about measuring adulthood. I already said 18 fits the minimum requirement. Also, this is different from the age of consent.

Exactly, stop saying rubbish. You have no idea what you're talking about.


I admit misunderstanding on my end here, mostly because of your nonchalant way of writing which i have warned you multiple times about.

That still doesn't hinder my inquiry. Does the fact that it stops growing in the 20s means age of consent should be somewhere in that region?

For your question, that wasn't what I was talking about. What I was highlighting wasn't that 20 should be the age of consent, but simply that development is still taking place, meaning that something like pregnancy would be especially difficult for someone who is 15. Didn't you get that?

Yes, I'm very nonchalant in my way of writing that even my opponents start to compliment me without even knowing it.

Just a heads-up, if you don't know the meaning of a word, next time don't use it.

All you southerners are the same to me.

And who exactly told you am a Southerner? Lol

Lying is something the ignorant or misinformed do. I have never intentionally commented any falsity lie on this forum. You on the other hand lie on just about every post especially because most of the things you type here is absolute rubbish and you need all the help in the world to back your moronic claims up.

And I guess you are either ignorant or misinformed.
"I lie because I say 'rubish.'" I think I need a little more evaluation, because that doesn't really prove anything.

Just stop it, okay? Until we start shouting for restructuring then we don't need it, we are absolutely fine.

Of couse Hausa/Fulani don't want reconstruction. Southern Kaduna, Kwara, Kogi, Benue, etc all want reconstruction. By we, then Hausa-Fulani are absolutely fine.

And i pointed out that if you're stupid enough to get caught then maybe you deserve to be stoned.

I simply implied that people come here so they can meet others who appreciate their foolishness. If you think you fit the profile that's on you, not me.

The bolded says it all. No one deserves to be stoned. The second part is an oxymoron.

You know what, you're right.

Let me simply ignore your rant.

Lol, ignore me. When you can't face me in an open debate, simply ignore. It's a defense mechanism.

9jakool:


First of all, I'll appreciate if you would answer my original question. It's a yes or no question.

Second, my claim is even though North Korea call itself democratic and secular, it doesn't behave like a democratic nor a secular country. North Korea does favor a religion. Cheondoism is often regarded as the national religion by North Korean government because of its history. It's the only religion that's favored by the government as it receives political representation.

*sigh

You keep missing the point of your own arguments. You claim one thing then immediately readjust your claims to suit your end.

Is the US not a secular state? Does is not favor Christianity over other religions? Unless what you're trying to insinuate is that there's no truly secular state.

This is not about measuring adulthood. I already said 18 fits the minimum requirement. Also, this is different from the age of consent.

Then what was the point of bringing that up?

For your question, that wasn't what I was talking about. What I was highlighting wasn't that 20 should be the age of consent, but simply that development is still taking place, meaning that something like pregnancy would be especially difficult for someone who is 15. Didn't you get that?

And at the same time it is easier for someone who is in their 20s than someone whos 18. Should we not eliminate all uncertainties and make it as easy as possible? should we not make something in the 20s the age of consent then? You should have the cohones to stick by an argument, staying on the fence is a sign of cowardice.

Yes, I'm very nonchalant in my way of writing that even my opponents start to compliment me without even knowing it.

Just a heads-up, if you don't know the meaning of a word, next time don't use it.

If you've taken anything i've said here as a compliment and have the audacity to question my diction then your condition is worse than i initially speculated.

I would like to know someone i am having a discussion with at least has some semblance of attentiveness.

And who exactly told you am a Southerner? Lol

If you're not with the north then you're a southerner, simple as that. Its either your a member of the family or just everyone else. Everyone else in Nigeria may as well be a southerner.

Ohh yeaahhhh Madrid just scored.

BTW, No such thing as the "middle belt".

And I guess you are either ignorant or misinformed.
"I lie because I say 'rubish.'" I think I need a little more evaluation, because that doesn't really prove anything.

A misinformed person is actually ignorant fyi. But thats another argument, one i have no interest in delving into. Lets just say you're both.

Of couse Hausa/Fulani don't want reconstruction. Southern Kaduna, Kwara, Kogi, Benue, etc all want reconstruction. By we, then Hausa-Fulani are absolutely fine.

Why would these states want any restructuring when they have full control over their affairs? Hausas and fulanis have no stake in these states, all we need is their support in unifying the north as a whole and so far they've done just that. Like i said, the north is a brotherhood.

The bolded says it all. No one deserves to be stoned. The second part is an oxymoron.

I agree, i always feel as a muslim you should have the compassion to never stand as a witness. You should also have the wits to never get caught. There are many instances of pregnant non married women in the north, i have never seen one stoned.

Lol, ignore me. When you can't face me in an open debate, simply ignore. It's a defense mechanism.

I ignore rants. I can only engage in sensible arguments.

There's this quote about idi.ots dragging you to their level and beating you with experience. That won't happen.

Ersan:


*sigh

You keep missing the point of your own arguments. You claim one thing then immediately readjust your claims to suit your end.

Is the US not a secular state? Does is not favor Christianity over other religions? Unless what you're trying to insinuate is that there's no truly secular state.

Lol, if I'm missing the point then, answer my damn question. If you would have answer my question in the first place, then I won't have use a different example.

In a social sphere , you might experience discrimination, but the government protects against that. All sorts of religions are represented by the US government: Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Sikh, etc. On the other hand, the only religion the Korean government favors in representation is cheondoism. I want you to find me an instance where the government favors Christianity above other religions in America. Just one, I am waiting.

Then what was the point of bringing that up?

Go back and check why.

And at the same time it is easier for someone who is in their 20s than someone whos 18. Should we not eliminate all uncertainties and make it as easy as possible? should we not make something in the 20s the age of consent then? You should have the cohones to stick by an argument, staying on the fence is a sign of cowardice.

No, because by the time of 18, the risks should be reduced enough.
Also, I do have the cojones to stick by my argument. My main points are and always were democracy is a spectrum, Nigeria is more than a North-South divide, and a system of regionalism is needed in Nigeria. In reality, those points are reasonable. You however, have manage to bring in North Korea, "percieved democracy" which is not recognized as a brand of democracy, and my "paragraphs" into the conversation. All of these are distractions you've managed to sneak in. Every time, I have had to constantly rebut your laughable claims, but it only draws away from the main points of the conversation.

if you've taken anything i've said here as a compliment and have the audacity to question my diction then your condition is worse than i initially speculated.

I would like to know someone i am having a discussion with at least has some semblance of attentiveness.

Lol, I know I'm arguing with you, but you are just trying to cover the fact that you called my writing nonchalant in an attempt to sound like an intellectual and what not. I know it wasn't an intentional compliment, I just had to catch you on it. Yes I do have the full audacity to question your diction and I did exactly that. I think one of the greatest acts of cowardice is not owning up to your own mistakes. It takes humility to do so. You got schooled, so own up to it.

If you're not with the north then you're a southerner, simple as that. Its either your a member of the family or just everyone else. Everyone else in Nigeria may as well be a southerner.

Ohh yeaahhhh Madrid just scored.

BTW, No such thing as the "middle belt".

Let me point out the logical fallacies in what you said.
* False dilemma
* Argumentum ad populum

Also, last I heard families don't attack each other based on their differences.

Yes, you cannot coerce me into an identity. My identity is not up for you to decide.

A misinformed person is actually ignorant fyi. But thats another argument, one i have no interest in delving into. Lets just say you're both.

Yes, and I was simply responding to when you said "lying is something the ignorant or misinformed do."

Why would these states want any restructuring when they have full control over their affairs? Hausas and fulanis have no stake in these states, all we need is their support in unifying the north as a whole and so far they've done just that. Like i said, the north is a brotherhood.

It's much complex than that. How many non-Igala governors have governed Kogi state? How many Idoma have ruled Benue? Despite Kaduna being half and half, how many non-Hausa/Fulani have governed that state since civilian rule? How come there is agitation in Kwara and Kogi to join the South west by Yorubas against the British demarcation line of North and South. What about the agitation for Apa, Savannah, Gurara states? The North like the South was never a unified entity to begin with.
I am going to quote your earlier post.
"We operate as a single political entity, with similarities in every aspects of the way we live from cuisine to dress code. This is why it is no bother for a man from katsina to successfully become a governor in kaduna."

This is far from the truth, tell me where in Kwara or Benue they eat Miyan Kuka? Does an Ebira man dress like a Kanuri? Don't even use that example of the governorship in Kaduna, you know well inside it's very insincere. It's not like the same ethnic group found in Katsina form a significant proportion in Kaduna. In comparison, what ethnic or social obstacle will a man from Oyo face if he were to run in Kwara? If that wasn't enough, both the incumbent and the new governor both come from the same ethnic bracket and religion, so there was almost no nuance for solidarity in Kaduna except for the simple fact that the political parties were different.

I agree, i always feel as a muslim you should have the compassion to never stand as a witness. You should also have the wits to never get caught. There are many instances of pregnant non married women in the north, i have never seen one stoned.

Whether or not you get caught, no one deserves stoning. I don't care what your religious affiliation or political stance is, it's simply barbaric. I wasn't talking about pregnant women specifically, but women who had children out of wedlock. In a case like that, stoning has been used in Northern Nigeria. Don't even attempt to defend it.

I ignore rants. I can only engage in sensible arguments.

There's this quote about idi.ots dragging you to their level and beating you with experience. That won't happen.

All I see it as not being able to face an argument, but deflecting away from it. I was not "ranting," I was using satire to point out the irony and hypocrisy in your argument. See a rant lacks passion. What I had up there shows my genuine passion through my deliberate use of tone, quotation, capitalization, and questions. This is a subject everyone likes to avoid, but I'm not going to pretend it doesn't exist because it has real life implications for the people involved and perception.

9jakool:

Lol, if I'm missing the point then, answer my damn question. If you would have answer my question in the first place, then I won't have use a different example.

In a social sphere , you might experience discrimination, but the government protects against that. All sorts of religions are represented by the US government: Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Sikh, etc. On the other hand, the only religion the Korean government favors in representation is cheondoism. I want you to find me an instance where the government favors Christianity above other religions in America. Just one, I am waiting.

A country that just voted a government that promises to bring back christian values, which then proceeds to attempt to block certain nationalities of muslims from getting into their country is not favoring christianity. Muslims and even jews have been denied political posts because of their religion, does that happen to christians?

Why do they refer to their former president as a muslim in a derogatory manner? would he have become president if he were?


You don't even know what you are saying, allow it.

Go back and check why.

just say you don't know.

No, because by the time of 18, the risks should be reduced enough.
Also, I do have the cojones to stick by my argument. My main points are and always were democracy is a spectrum, Nigeria is more than a North-South divide, and a system of regionalism is needed in Nigeria. In reality, those points are reasonable. You however, have manage to bring in North Korea, "percieved democracy" which is not recognized as a brand of democracy, and my "paragraphs" into the conversation. All of these are distractions you've managed to sneak in. Every time, I have had to constantly rebut your laughable claims, but it only draws away from the main points of the conversation.

You clown!!! i never called south korea democratic, you did.

Lol, I know I'm arguing with you, but you are just trying to cover the fact that you called my writing nonchalant in an attempt to sound like an intellectual and what not. I know it wasn't an intentional compliment, I just had to catch you on it. Yes I do have the full audacity to question your diction and I did exactly that. I think one of the greatest acts of cowardice is not owning up to your own mistakes. It takes humility to do so. You got schooled, so own up to it.

"Behaving in a calm manner, often in a way that suggests you are not interested or do not care"


Saying this about the way you write is a compliment? Funny thing is you think "nonchalant is a big word, googled it and got confused. Like i said, English is your problem.

Let me point out the logical fallacies in what you said.
* False dilemma
* Argumentum ad populum

Now here's a person trying to sound smart. FYI stating isn't enough, you have to explain how it applies to the argument at hand.

Also, last I heard families don't attack each other based on their differences.

Attack?

Yes, you cannot coerce me into an identity. My identity is not up for you to decide.

Actually, we have. Willingly or not, that region must submit. That's not a choice.

Yes, and I was simply responding to when you said "lying is something the ignorant or misinformed do."

I said, trying to narrow down your manner of ignorance. Keep up....

It's much complex than that. How many non-Igala governors have governed Kogi state? How many Idoma have ruled Benue? Despite Kaduna being half and half, how many non-Hausa/Fulani have governed that state since civilian rule? How come there is agitation in Kwara and Kogi to join the South west by Yorubas against the British demarcation line of North and South. What about the agitation for Apa, Savannah, Gurara states? The North like the South was never a unified entity to begin with.
I am going to quote your earlier post.

You ought to be slapped just your that bolded comment. Half and half in your mums village yeah? LOL! Don't even!

And how exactly did hausas or fulanis interfere in these other states? why blame us for that? I have never heard of kogi agitating for the south west. Kwara belongs to yorubas, regardless of how they dress of the fact that they have an emir, i agree.

"We operate as a single political entity, with similarities in every aspects of the way we live from cuisine to dress code. This is why it is no bother for a man from katsina to successfully become a governor in kaduna."

This is far from the truth, tell me where in Kwara or Benue they eat Miyan Kuka? Does an Ebira man dress like a Kanuri? Don't even use that example of the governorship in Kaduna, you know well inside it's very insincere. It's not like the same ethnic group found in Katsina form a significant proportion in Kaduna. In comparison, what ethnic or social obstacle will a man from Oyo face if he were to run in Kwara? If that wasn't enough, both the incumbent and the new governor both come from the same ethnic bracket and religion, so there was almost no nuance for solidarity in Kaduna except for the simple fact that the political parties were different.

A kanuri dresses like every other northerner, so yes. I have met a lot of egbiras who dress that way. I am very well acquainted with minorities see.

As to your other points, granted there are certain variations, it doesn't fully affect the picture as a whole.

And ewww, miyan kuka? seriously? when did it become standard that hausas eat miyan kuka? On a general note, we prefer miyan taushe and others to kuka, FYI.

Whether or not you get caught, no one deserves stoning. I don't care what your religious affiliation or political stance is, it's simply barbaric. I wasn't talking about pregnant women specifically, but women who had children out of wedlock. In a case like that, stoning has been used in Northern Nigeria. Don't even attempt to defend it.

I will damn well defend it. it is the only way of ridding corruption and immorality from our lands and cleansing the perpetrators before they meet their Lord.

FYI, like i also said earlier. I believe prison terms are barbaric.

All I see it as not being able to face an argument, but deflecting away from it. I was not "ranting," I was using satire to point out the irony and hypocrisy in your argument. See a rant lacks passion. What I had up there shows my genuine passion through my deliberate use of tone, quotation, capitalization, and questions. This is a subject everyone likes to avoid, but I'm not going to pretend it doesn't exist because it has real life implications for the people involved and perception.

Small fry, for the umpteenth time, you're wrong. Jeez!

It seems your google definitions failed you again


A rant is actually fueled by feelings and passion, that is why we disregard it because it is very subjective. Like you said you have "genuine passion"

In case of next time, impassioned does not mean what you think small fry. It seems i was right, English is one of your problems.

Ersan:


A country that just voted a government that promises to bring back christian values, which then proceeds to attempt to block certain nationalities of muslims from getting into their country is not favoring christianity. Muslims and even jews have been denied political posts because of their religion, does that happen to christians?

Why do they refer to their former president as a muslim in a derogatory manner? would he have become president if he were?

You don't even know what you are saying, allow it.

Let's get one thing clear, yes there are bigots in the USA and not everybody is a bigot. Yes, Trump signed the executive order that banned nationalities from Muslim majority countries from entering the US. But you know what, many people protested and his action was ruled unconstitutional by the US court. If the US was not secular, then the ban wouldn't have been declared unconstitutional. Try again.

just say you don't know.

I can't keep going back into the thread to keep searching for quotes you know. You asked the question, so go back.

You clown!!! i never called south North korea democratic, you did.

By South, I guess you mean North.

Do you even pay any attention at all?
Did I say you called North Korea democratic? I didn't ask that question. Let me actually quote what I said before you start spinning your usual lies.
"You however, have manage to bring in North Korea, "percieved democracy" which is not recognized as a brand of democracy, and my "paragraphs" into the conversation."

Do you see why we use commas to separate one idea from another?
Also did I called North Korea democratic? Nope! Here's what I said.

"In fact, the full name of North Korea is Democratic People's Republic of North Korea. If we were to use North Korea's definition, then it would be democratic too in additional to secular. But North Korea in reality is neither secular nor democratic. No one, except for NK would ever think NK is secular or democratic."

Wow, you are on a roll with your lies today!

Ersan:


"Behaving in a calm manner, often in a way that suggests you are not interested or do not care"


Saying this about the way you write is a compliment? Funny thing is you think "nonchalant is a big word, googled it and got confused. Like i said, English is your problem.

Nonchalant is used as a compliment and no, who told you I had to look it up lol. To me, it means calm and unconcerned, it does not have a negative connotation, so yes I claim it as a compliment.

Now here's a person trying to sound smart. FYI stating isn't enough, you have to explain how it applies to the argument at hand.

No sh*t Sherlock, I'm trying to sound dumb.

I thought you already knew. If you need to know, look it up on your own.

Attack?

You know, inter-ethnic violence, religious strives, etc.

Actually, we have. Willingly or not, that region must submit. That's not a choice.

I REPEAT! YOU CANNOT FORCE AN IDENTITY ON ME JUST LIKE I CANNOT FORCE AN IDENTITY ON YOU.

I said, trying to narrow down your manner of ignorance. Keep up....

LOL , who are you fooling? All you had to do was replace and with or. You corrected your own mistake without even knowing.

You ought to be slapped just your that bolded comment. Half and half in your mums village yeah? LOL! Don't even!

I bloody dare you to come slap me.
If its not half-half, then what is it then? I know half of the LGAs are occupied by minorities.

And how exactly did hausas or fulanis interfere in these other states? why blame us for that? I have never heard of kogi agitating for the south west. Kwara Ilorin belongs to yorubas, regardless of how they dress of the fact that they have an emir, i agree.

It doesn't concern hausa/fulani. I simply said you all don't want restructuring. Kwara was always in contention as a Yoruba state. I was talking about its agitation to be included in the same region as other Yorubas. There is similar agitation in Kogi state.

A kanuri dresses like every other northerner, so yes. I have met a lot of egbiras who dress that way. I am very well acquainted with minorities see.

As to your other points, granted there are certain variations, it doesn't fully affect the picture as a whole.

The traditional Ebira attire is similar to Yoruba's attire. Many ethnic groups in the "North" have their own attire. The variations are enough for me.

And ewww, miyan kuka? seriously? when did it become standard that hausas eat miyan kuka? On a general note, we prefer miyan taushe and others to kuka, FYI.

Lol, I don't know when it became the standard that Hausa eat miyan kuka...maybe because it sounds like Hausa and you all eat it? Frankly, I don't care if it tastes like poo, the point is a Benue or Kwara man doesn't eat that stuff just like an Hausa man does not eat okoho or ekuru.

I will damn well defend it. it is the only way of ridding corruption and immorality from our lands and cleansing the perpetrators before they meet their Lord.

FYI, like i also said earlier. I believe prison terms are barbaric.

The bolded is all I need to know. This is the reason why bigots attack Islam when there are still people who believe in stoning in this age.

Small fry, for the umpteenth time, you're wrong. Jeez!

It seems your google definitions failed you again


A rant is actually fueled by feelings and passion, that is why we disregard it because it is very subjective. Like you said you have "genuine passion"

In case of next time, impassioned does not mean what you think small fry. It seems i was right, English is one of your problems.

Admittedly that definition of rant I gave was wrong and I take ownership for that mistake.
Who told you I'm using google definition?
My point was satirical in nature, and yes it was subjective and driven with genuine passion, which is totally fine.

9jakool:


Let's get one thing clear, yes there are bigots in the USA and not everybody is a bigot. Yes, Trump signed the executive order that banned nationalities from Muslim majority countries from entering the US. But you know what, many people protested and his action was ruled unconstitutional by the US court. If the US was not secular, then the ban wouldn't have been declared unconstitutional. Try again.

The fact that it was considered and is still being considered discredits any outrage. The fact that the majority of their lawmakers support this, the fact that if it weren't for a few brave judges, this law would have been passed shows you the true color of the country. Don't be deceived by the false picture the liberal media and movie makers show you, that country isn't what it portrays itself to be.

I can't keep going back into the thread to keep searching for quotes you know. You asked the question, so go back.

Let me answer it for you then, it was pointless.

By South, I guess you mean North.

Do you even pay any attention at all?
Did I say you called North Korea democratic? I didn't ask that question. Let me actually quote what I said before you start spinning your usual lies.
"You however, have manage to bring in North Korea, "percieved democracy" which is not recognized as a brand of democracy, and my "paragraphs" into the conversation."

Do you see why we use commas to separate one idea from another?
Also did I called North Korea democratic? Nope! Here's what I said.

"In fact, the full name of North Korea is Democratic People's Republic of North Korea. If we were to use North Korea's definition, then it would be democratic too in additional to secular. But North Korea in reality is neither secular nor democratic. No one, except for NK would ever think NK is secular or democratic."

Wow, you are on a roll with your lies today!

My first statement to you was that malaysia was islamic but democratic and north korea was secular but not democratic was it not? We're you not the person who tried to complicate the issue small fry? You seem utterly confused.

9jakool:




Nonchalant is used as a compliment and no, who told you I had to look it up lol. To me, it means calm and unconcerned, it does not have a negative connotation, so yes I claim it as a compliment.

Why would you assume that given i previously complained about your writing style? I have been called nonchalant a few times in the past, never in a positive manner especially academically. Goes in line with the definition.

No sh*t Sherlock, I'm trying to sound dumb.

Well it seems you don't have to try too hard, you've been doing a stellar job.

Word of advice; when using sarcasm, never leave yourself open to insults.

Never try to sound smart, you end up doing the opposite. Limit your writing to your understanding.

I thought you already knew. If you need to know, look it up on your own.

I made what i believe are valid claims and you stipulated that they fall prey to certain "fallacies". It is up to you to discredit them and make me understand, otherwise you're just making baseless assumptions.

You know, inter-ethnic violence, religious strives, etc.

unavoidable in every society.

I REPEAT! YOU CANNOT FORCE AN IDENTITY ON ME JUST LIKE I CANNOT FORCE AN IDENTITY ON YOU.

We can and we have. Your low pitched protests are irrelevant. You should feel blessed to be a part of the great white north.

LOL , who are you fooling? All you had to do was replace and with or. You corrected your own mistake without even knowing.
Let those two statements sink in. Jeez!....

I bloody dare you to come slap me.
If its not half-half, then what is it then? I know half of the LGAs are occupied by minorities.

Physical violence isn't my thing and people don't always get what they deserve.

I grew up in kaduna, been to every corner, dont even bring up that half and half BS to okay? Don't insult me like that.

It doesn't concern hausa/fulani. I simply said you all don't want restructuring. Kwara was always in contention as a Yoruba state. I was talking about its agitation to be included in the same region as other Yorubas. There is similar agitation in Kogi state.

I have never heard of this justification for kwara let alone kogi.

The traditional Ebira attire is similar to Yoruba's attire. Many ethnic groups in the "North" have their own attire. The variations are enough for me.

Is the current governor not an egbira man? i have never seen him wear anything that resembles a yoruba attire.

Lol, I don't know when it became the standard that Hausa eat miyan kuka...maybe because it sounds like Hausa and you all eat it? Frankly, I don't care if it tastes like poo, the point is a Benue or Kwara man doesn't eat that stuff just like an Hausa man does not eat okoho or ekuru.

I have eaten ekoho before, isnt it that stick soup. Like i told you, i am very acquainted with the north central.

The bolded is all I need to know. This is the reason why bigots attack Islam when there are still people who believe in stoning in this age.

And who are you to determine whats barbaric or not?

Admittedly that definition of rant I gave was wrong and I take ownership for that mistake.
Who told you I'm using google definition?
My point was satirical in nature, and yes it was subjective and driven with genuine passion, which is totally fine.

Its no coincidence that you used the word passion. Again, don't insult me like this.

Everything is wrong with passion in a civilized argument which i hope this is. When feelings and subjectivity influence your thoughts then it means you're not able to think right. There's everything wrong with subjectivity in this context.

Ersan:


The fact that it was considered and is still being considered discredits any outrage. The fact that the majority of their lawmakers support this, the fact that if it weren't for a few brave judges, this law would have been passed shows you the true color of the country. Don't be deceived by the false picture the liberal media and movie makers show you, that country isn't what it portrays itself to be.

Yes, it's easy for you to discredit tens of thousands of people who poured out for protests in airports across the country, thousands of protesters who marched in unfavorable weather conditions and hundreds of lawyers who stormed international airports to personally take cases of families affected free of charge. It's one of the most secular countries in the world. Also, Trump didn't go to the lawmakers, he had to use the executive order which has no limit because, because it's suppose to be used for emergencies. Executive orders that violate the conastitution are put on hold and a court case is brought up. The US is still secular. Any form of religious discrimination is outlawed. Until, you can offer me concrete example, then this case is closed.

Let me answer it for you myself then, it was pointless.

Did I asked the question?
You asked the question, not me.

My first statement to you was that malaysia was islamic but democratic and north korea was secular but not democratic was it not? We're you not the person who tried to complicate the issue small fry? You seem utterly confused.

I guess we are just going to ignore your lies.
I think you are confused one the moment you start mentioning "percieved democracy" otherwise you won't have lied twice.
"Perceived democracy in Korea and most of asia is influenced by the communist soviet idea of democracy which is different from conventional democracy."

9jakool:


Yes, it's easy for you to discredit tens of thousands of people who poured out for protests in airports across the country, thousands of protesters who marched in unfavorable weather conditions and hundreds of lawyers who stormed international airports to personally take cases of families affected free of charge. It's one of the most secular countries in the world. Also, Trump didn't go to the lawmakers, he had to use the executive order which has no limit because, because it's suppose to be used for emergencies. Executive orders that violate the conastitution are put on hold and a court case is brought up. The US is still secular. Any form of religious discrimination is outlawed. Until, you can offer me concrete example, then this case is closed.

And the millions who stayed at home and did nothing? the same millions who voted this man into office in the first place? what about them? executive or not, republican lawmakers supported this ban.

You used "one of the most secular" implying the is truly a degree to secularism. You unfortunately deal with absolutes when it suits and revert to more malleable principles when they don't. shame! My argument has never been that the US isn't secular, you remain confused.

Did I asked the question?
You asked the question, not me.

And you're shying away from providing an answer why? you brought up an irrelevant topic and i am asking you about your motives, if you dont have one we can both agree it was balderdash.

I guess we are just going to ignore your lies.
I think you are confused one the moment you start mentioning "percieved democracy" otherwise you won't have lied twice.
"Perceived democracy in Korea and most of asia is influenced by the communist soviet idea of democracy which is different from conventional democracy."

You mentioned what their official name was and i told you why that is, i also explain to you why conventional secularism can be applied to the north korean state. My arguments dont rely on their official stance but rather in the manner in which they act. Just like you implied a degree of secularism earlier, north korea may not be as secular as other states but it is secular to a degree. It is however not in anyway democratic. Yet you are unable/refuse to understand these blatant facts thrown in your face. Shame!

Ersan:


Why would you assume that given i previously complained about your writing style? I have been called nonchalant a few times in the past, never in a positive manner especially academically. Goes in line with the definition.

I knew it wasn't complimentary, but I wanted claim it as such. As for the bolded, you just revealed something about yourself.

Well it seems you don't have to try too hard, you've been doing a stellar job.

Word of advice; when using sarcasm, never leave yourself open to insults.

Never try to sound smart, you end up doing the opposite. Limit your writing to your understanding.

Sad, you still took the bait even though you knew perfectly what you were doing.

I made what i believe are valid claims and you stipulated that they fall prey to certain "fallacies". It is up to you to discredit them and make me understand, otherwise you're just making baseless assumptions.

Ok, let me put it in simpler terms that you may understand.
* You cannot say I belong to either or, only I get to make a call about my identity.
* You cannot force me to join a bandwagon either.
Those are the fallacies you made in your faulty reasoning.

unavoidable in every society.

You've confirmed my point, siblings don't kill each other.
Also, there is tribal violence in every society, but the magnitudes are different. Tribal and sectarian violence occurs in Nigeria more frequently and on a larger scale. The majority is in the apparent "unified" North.

We can and we have. Your low pitched protests are irrelevant. You should feel blessed to be a part of the great white north.

Who are "we" lol?

LOL , who are you fooling? All you had to do was replace and with or. You corrected your own mistake without even knowing.
Let those two statements sink in. Jeez!....

"Lying is something the ignorant or misinformed do."
"A misinformed person is actually ignorant fyi."
Both of these were your quotes, the second quote was your attempt to "correct" what I said. They contradict each other.

Physical violence isn't my thing and people don't always get what they deserve.

Lol yet you defend stoning and amputation. You know stoning is just like amputation, it's more human, swift, more guarantee of redemption.

I grew up in kaduna, been to every corner, dont even bring up that half and half BS to okay? Don't insult me like that.

HALF OF THE LGAs are owned by the indigines. In my book, it's half and half until a proper census is carried out.

I have never heard of this justification for kwara let alone kogi.

I guess you are not as familiar with some of the "Northern states".

Is the current governor not an egbira man? i have never seen him wear anything that resembles a yoruba attire.

He's a politician, not representative of the general public. My point is an Ebira traditional wear differs from an Hausa or Kanuri.

I have eaten ekoho before, isnt it that stick soup. Like i told you, i am very acquainted with the north central.

What about ekuru?

And who are you to determine whats barbaric or not?

A human being,
I see any unjust act as barbaric. Simple as that.
Also, this is the reason why many people lash out against muslims.

Its no coincidence that you used the word passion. Again, don't insult me like this.

Everything is wrong with passion in a civilized argument which i hope this is. When feelings and subjectivity influence your thoughts then it means you're not able to think right. There's everything wrong with subjectivity in this context.

Actually that definition I put up was not from google definitions but from oxford dictionary.

Also I beg to disagree, you can be passionate about a topic without influencing your thoughts. A great argument is an argument that has facts and is driven by passion. A great rhetorical argument uses pathos, ethos, and logos. Pathos deals with appeal to people and emotions.