Rashduct4luv:


On the contrary,

Mark says:

“Then everyone deserted him and fled.”
Mark 14:50 – New International Version (NIV)

At Jesus arrest or at Jesus Crucifixion?

I have answered your questions. Answer mine.

His Jesus go to Allah in secret or in the presence of some of his disciples!

sagenaija:
Aadoiza, Empiree:
Imagine this:
A magician turns a white bird into red.
You say you see a red bird.
The magician says: No. I only made it appear red to you; it is actually white.
And then he turns round to claim that you are a fool for believing that what you saw as red you said it was red.

That is the logic of Allah in this portion of the Koran.

If Allah deceived people into believing that it was not Jesus that was crucified we can deduce 2 things from here:
1. Someone was crucified in the place of Jesus. In other words, there was a SUBSTITUTIONARY death for Jesus, according to the koran. An innocent person since it was Jesus they wanted to kill? Yes or No? Yes!
2.The people who were deceived SAW what Allah made them SEE. So, they are saying exactly what they saw. They were witnessing to what they saw. Yes or No? Yes!

So, if Allah made Jews and Christians walk in his DECEPTION for hundreds of years until Mohamed came and still made them victims of his own deception what kind of god are we talking about here?
Does this make any moral sense?
Here you are trying to defend the indefensible.

You're thinking like the atheists. Is your imaginary magician all powerful? Your analogy reeks of sheer ignorance as regards the All mighty. Now I understand better why God says: if you don't know me how can you worship me.
You will continue hitting rock bottom if you fail to acknowledge the possibility of "logic attrition" in divine dispositions. (A trait shared by the atheists.)

Allah worked a mystery because he works in mysterious ways. He does what he wants how he wants and when he wants, and is not amenable to anyone. Your problem is you believe Allah SWT is not God and that's why you lose your moral inclinations and make reckless and cavalier comments about him, which is as counterintuitive as it gets, even Jesus would be disappointed

omorkelly:
My Dear friend, in Islam, translated is not the same as the original Quran. This is the reason Muslims worldwide learn the Quran in the Language it was revealed.
NOTE: Quran has no version. But it has been translated into different languages and with different commentaries.
It obvious there are lot people do not understand about islam even mulims alike; the more reason islamic issues are tackled based on knowledge & not logic by the knowledgeable ones.

[/b] [b][/b]

Don't forget that the Qur'an was revealed in at least seven Arabic tongues. Where are the others

aadoiza:


You're thinking like the atheists. Is your imaginary magician all powerful? Your analogy reeks of sheer ignorance as regards the All mighty. Now I understand better why God says: if you don't know me how can you worship me.
You will continue hitting rock bottom if you fail to acknowledge the possibility of "logic attrition" in divine dispositions. (A trait shared by the atheists.)

Allah worked a mystery because he works in mysterious ways. He does what he wants how he wants and when he wants, and is not amenable to anyone. Your problem is you believe Allah SWT is not God and that's why you lose your moral inclinations and make reckless and cavalier comments about him, which is as counterintuitive as it gets, even Jesus would be disappointed

You seem not to know what is called an ANALOGY!

shadeyinka:
Ore wa!

Sorry for how you feel about comments here.

The issue at stake is that Both Christians and Muslims believe that
1. God has power to do anything
2. Jesus son of Mary had no earthly father
3. There was an attempt by the Jews to Crucify Him

The question is that,
Allah is powerful enough to remove Jesus from the earth if that is what was required
BUT
Muslims say "Jesus was taken bodily to God in Heaven"
And as Christians, the question was
1. Was it in the presence of some of Jesus disciples or in secret?

Even if Allah would have done a miracle, it wouldn't exclude either of these two possibilities.

THE TRUTH IS NEVER AFRAID OF QUESTIONING. For questions actually validate the truth.

Your penitence should be about your colleague's comments not my feelings.

God has the power to do anything you wrote yet you get all giddy and asking irrelevant questions. How do you people even think self. You think Allah is bound by the laws of this 3D world. Allah can bend and suspend all physical laws at will, if he so desires. And this is you or any Christian cannot logically prove Mary's conception of Jesus was not a post-coital culmination, but I don't see you asking for the nitty-gritty of such possibility.

shadeyinka:

At Jesus arrest or at Jesus Crucifixion?

I have answered your questions. Answer mine.

His Jesus go to Allah in secret or in the presence of some of his disciples!

I don't know as such info is of no use to me!

shadeyinka:



Open your eyes since Arrest = Crucifixion

Instead of answering the simple question, you are busy trying to claim that Mary couldn't recognise her son.

Oh I forgot. The almighty Allah DECIEVED Mary too and ALL the Apostles and Disciples. Allah is indeed all wise!

Mary could have seen someone in the image of Jesus so my theory still stands!

What do you call a Lecture that has two syllabuses, one simple for some student and one hard for other students?

Jesus has to die for people in the new testament but no one needed his death in the old testament!

Tell me is Jesus the same today yesterday and tomorrow?

aadoiza:

Your penitence should be about your colleague's comments not my feelings.

God has the power to do anything you wrote yet you get all giddy and asking irrelevant questions. How do you people even think self. You think Allah is bound by the laws of this 3D world. Allah can bend and suspend all physical laws at will, if he so desires. And this is you or any Christian cannot logically prove Mary's conception of Jesus was not a post-coital culmination, but I don't see you asking for the nitty-gritty of such possibility.

Of course, we both know that God can do anything, including making Jesus disappear or to come up to Him in heaven bodily.

The question isn't about that. The question was:
Did Allah perform the MIRACLE of Jesus's going to heaven in the presence of the Disciples or in the presence of Nobody?

It's simple: no one is contesting the power of Allah!

Rashduct4luv:


Mary could have seen someone in the image of Jesus so my theory still stands!

What do you call a Lecture that has two syllabuses, one simple for some student and one hard for other students?

Jesus has to die for people in the new testament but no one needed his death in the old testament!

Tell me is Jesus the same today yesterday and tomorrow?

In other words the Almighty Allah DECIEVED Mary!

Is this your conclusion?

Rashduct4luv:


I don't know as such info is of no use to me!

Because it reveals the TRUTH which you feel it's best ignoring.

Otherwise, every question has an answer whether the question is useful to the person or not.

Like who is the president of Niger Republic?
It's a question!
It's of no use to me!
Yet it has an answer: President Mahamadou Issoufou !

Did Allah take up Jesus to Himself secretly or in the presence of some disciples?

It's a question that requires an answer!

I wonder to what end would a christian be asking such a question since you do not even belief in the Quran.
Anyways you won't expect me to add what is not stated therein.Therefore; it is not expletely stated in the passage.
NOTE: Compare the texts of the Arabic Quran anywhere you will never find any discrepancy therein.
BTW, do you have a copy of the Holy Bible in its original aramaic Language in which it was revealed?
I will stop here and may not respond further cos today is my first in responding to religious issue on NL.
May God bless you all.[color=#006600][/color]

shadeyinka:


Read my language again.
There are more than 60 different English translations of the Arabic Qur'an.
And the Bible has translations for every language under the heavens and almost 200 or more English translations.

The only question on this thread you have dodged as usual is:

When Allah took Jesus to heaven, was in in secret or in the presence of some disciples?

nutarious:



Your Vexation didn't actually communicated anything meaningful. You must be conscious of the thousands of intelligent persons reading through.


The Question the Op was asking is if you actually trust the genuity of your Book then everything must be explained when it tries to give a Stand point to other people's faith.

Your book came 600years plus after Jesus's death and should actually have better statements than the one it tried to change.


The Question OP is asking if not answered makes your book another book of Faith but not necessarily of Truth.

For Truth is Verifiable.

That you strongly Beleive in your book dosnt make it a Truthful book, there other religion with their sacred books.

If your Faith Claims to carry truth, then it should be verified.

Truth is verifiable? Yes it is; but a good story trumps the truth all times..

nutarious:
As a Muslim one should be truthful to ask how Muhammad, gave a truth to a tribe after 600 years and that's the best factual statement and it dosnt have any commentaries before him to back him up or History.


This is what the OP is challenging, is like a Ghanaian telling the story of OBA OF Benin.


Not everybody is interested in the Faith, but definitely everybody wants to know the Truth.

Was Muhammad the Founder of Islam Faith, Yes, that's a Truth even though am not interested in serving Muhammad god, is Jesus the Author and finisher of Christian faith, Yes.


We are talking of Truth that's Verifiable. If you can't defend a Truth. Just keep mute.

You people and your ridiculous analogies no go kee person. We're talking God and you're here comparing him with your oba. SMH

IMAliyu:
First off I would like to know the biblical accounts of Jesus's crusifixtion.
A link or reference would do.
But a simple explanation is we(Muslims) believe in the Qur'an and site it our reference (which you guys don't accept or believe in) and you(Christians) believe in the Bible and site it as your reference (which we believe in, but don't think of it as accurate or untempered). With this fact.
This discussion is going to go nowhere and achieve nothing. This is a subject we will never agree upon and will never change the minds of the other on.
But who says we can't have an aimless discussion.

Hmm.

I knew op was gonna say Jesus was taken up in the presence of "apostle". This is so important to him but he doesn't realize it is far less important to us whether Jesus was taken to heaven in secret or in the presence of others. It is a very ridiculous question to the point of ridiculing Muslims over non issue. Now he said John was present at the time of ascension.

Abeg, how is that important to us?. If John was present, it means he saw it all. How come your Gospels contradicted one another on the issue if apostle John was present?. Op doesn't understand that I tried to save his shame not to expose Bible contradictions on ascension and crucifixion. It is crazy how these guys think.

If how Jesus was taken up was so important we would have had it documented in the Qur'an but it is not. And because of this he refused to take shahadah at 200L in college. This is very ridiculous excuse.

It is like saying "I want to know how fish swallowed Jonah.... If no one can tell me how I will reject CHRISTIANITY". Does this makes sense?

T

omorkelly:
I wonder to what end would a christian be asking such a question since you do not even belief in the Quran.
Anyways you won't expect me to add what is not stated therein.Therefore; it is not expletely stated in the passage.
NOTE: Compare the texts of the Arabic Quran anywhere you will never find any discrepancy therein.
BTW, do you have a copy of the Holy Bible in its original aramaic Language in which it was revealed?
I will stop here and may not respond further cos today is my first in responding to religious issue on NL.
May God bless you all.[color=#006600][/color]

About discrepances: "we know that the sun doesn't set in murky waters!"

The truth is bitter. And some would do everything to bury it if they can. But it's a matter of time and Questions, the truth ALWAYS wins.

Half knowledge kills and destroys.
The bible revealed in Aramaic?

Do you have the original copy of the Qur'ans? It is completely LOST!
I forgot: A tame lamb eat up part of it

Empiree:
I knew op was gonna say Jesus was taken up in the presence of "apostle". This is so important to him but he doesn't realize it is far less important to us whether Jesus was taken to heaven in secret or in the presence of others. It is a very ridiculous question to the point of ridiculing Muslims over non issue. Now he said John was present at the time of ascension.

Abeg, how is that important to us?. If John was present, it means he saw it all. How come your Gospels contradicted one another on the issue if apostle John was present?. Op doesn't understand that I tried to save his shame not to expose Bible contradictions on ascension and crucifixion. It is crazy how these guys think.

If how Jesus was taken up was so important we would have had it documented in the Qur'an but it is not. And because of this he refused to take shahadah at 200L in college. This is very ridiculous excuse.

It is like saying "I want to know how fish swallowed Jonah.... If no one can tell me how I will reject CHRISTIANITY". Does this makes sense?

If Bible says Jonah was swallowed by a Fish and Qur'an says Jonah wasn't and they are supposed to be words of God, then QUESTIONS should be asked the two scriptures

Why would you quote lies about what I said without quoting me.

One of the two scriptures Bible and Qur'an Deliberatly LIED about an event so well known about Christ.

It's so easy to determine which one did: by simply asking a question!

Empiree:
I knew op was gonna say Jesus was taken up in the presence of "apostle". This is so important to him but he doesn't realize it is far less important to us whether Jesus was taken to heaven in secret or in the presence of others. It is a very ridiculous question to the point of ridiculing Muslims over non issue. Now he said John was present at the time of ascension.

Abeg, how is that important to us?. If John was present, it means he saw it all. How come your Gospels contradicted one another on the issue if apostle John was present?. Op doesn't understand that I tried to save his shame not to expose Bible contradictions on ascension and crucifixion. It is crazy how these guys think.

If how Jesus was taken up was so important we would have had it documented in the Qur'an but it is not. And because of this he refused to take shahadah at 200L in college. This is very ridiculous excuse.

It is like saying "I want to know how fish swallowed Jonah.... If no one can tell me how I will reject CHRISTIANITY". Does this makes sense?

What did you expect from a religious group who made central the death of a man, although blessed, in their faith.
The atheists on here have repeatedly asked them to prove logically how Jonah could have survived in the belly of a fish for days and we're still waiting for their logical answer.

aadoiza:

What did you expect from a religious group who made central the death of a man, although blessed, in their faith.
The atheists on here have repeatedly asked them to prove logically how Jonah could have survived in the belly of a fish for days and we're still waiting for their logical answer.

Answer the simple Question and stop ranting aimlessly about the BUSH!

shadeyinka:

Because it reveals the TRUTH which you feel it's best ignoring.

Otherwise, every question has an answer whether the question is useful to the person or not.

Like who is the president of Niger Republic?
It's a question!
It's of no use to me!
Yet it has an answer: President Mahamadou Issoufou !

Did Allah take up Jesus to Himself secretly or in the presence of some disciples?

It's a question that requires an answer!

Not as easy as that.

After Adam gave birth to Cain and Abel. Cain killed Abel and became cursed. Who did Adam and Eve gave birth to after then? What happened to Cain later?

Please answer from the Bible.

shadeyinka:

If Bible says Jonah was swallowed by a Fish and Qur'an says Jonah wasn't and they are supposed to be words of God, then QUESTIONS should be asked the two scriptures

Why would you quote lies about what I said without quoting me.

One of the two scriptures Bible and Qur'an Deliberatly LIED about an event so well known about Christ.

It's so easy to determine which one did: by simply asking a question!

Not these absurd questions you are asking.

Not all events so well known are true!

shadeyinka:

In other words the Almighty Allah DECIEVED Mary!

Is this your conclusion?

Allah saved His messenger!

How can God (The Father) let one of His creation (i.e. death) kill God (the son) for approximately 2 days & 2 nights to redeem the humans He created. For this to be achieved, God (the son) had to enter one of his creation's womb and pass through the birth canal just like any kid.

He was helpless like any kid as his parents carried him and fled from the evil king. After he was born a pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons were sacrificed. He ate, sleep and cry like any human. He even accused God of forsaking him on the cross.

He perform miracles and never claimed he did such by his own power.


Christian myth in red!

Rashduct4luv:


Allah saved His messenger!

How can God (The Father) let one of His creation (i.e. death) kill God (the son) for approximately 2 days & 2 nights to redeem the humans He created. For this to be achieved, God (the son) had to enter one of his creation's womb and pass through the birth canal just like any kid.

He was helpless like any kid as his parents carried him and fled from the evil king. After he was born a pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons were sacrificed. He ate, sleep and cry like any human. He even accused God of forsaking him on the cross.

He perform miracles and never claimed he did such by his own power.


Christian myth in red!

So, don't change the discuss yet.
The almighty Allah decieved Mary! Final conclusion!

The "myopicness" of your reasoning amaze me!

What is death to God?

If a man can die before men,
Can one really DIE before God?

If a person truly dies, how come the two Angels are able to ask three questions from the one who had died. How come the grave can be made difficult or blissful for the dead?!?

Death is just a change of state of a human being from physical existence to spiritual existence. How bad is that!?

Rashduct4luv:


Not these absurd questions you are asking.

Not all events so well known are true!

If there is a contradiction between two views or school of thought, how does one determine the one speaking the truth?

Is it not by ASKING QUESTIONS?

Rashduct4luv:


Not as easy as that.

After Adam gave birth to Cain and Abel. Cain killed Abel and became cursed. Who did Adam and Eve gave birth to after then? What happened to Cain later?

Please answer from the Bible.

I will gladly do that if you'll answer my questions too

Adam had other sons and daughters after Cain and Abel

Gen 5:3-4:
"And Adam lived two hundred and thirty years, and begot a son after his own likeness and after his own image, and called his name Seth. And the days of Adam which he lived after he begot Seth were seven hundred years, and he begot sons and daughters."

Would you now please answer mine:

Did Allah take Jesus to heaven in secret or in the presence of his Disciples?

shadeyinka:

So, don't change the discuss yet.
The almighty Allah decieved Mary! Final conclusion!

The "myopicness" of your reasoning amaze me!

What is death to God?

If a man can die before men,
Can one really DIE before God?

If a person truly dies, how come the two Angels are able to ask three questions from the one who had died. How come the grave can be made difficult or blissful for the dead?!?

Death is just a change of state of a human being from physical existence to spiritual existence. How bad is that!?

Our Allah is far above deceit. I can highlight you a lists of deceit from your Book. Spare me the ''deceit" word. If you don't have any other thing to talk about make i vamoose.

Point of correction. Anyone called God can not die. i.e. He is not subject to His own creation that kills. God does not have parents. God does not eat, sleep, feel helpless, cry, pass through a woman's womb. In short, God does not appear in a human form cos it does not befit Him. God does not switch between human and God wherein as God he can do all things but as human he can perform miracles but does not know the "hour". God is not a "geenie".


Christianity has been mixed with Polytheistic beliefs

https://www.nairaland.com/5151084/how-did-christianity-mixed-polytheistic

shadeyinka:

I will gladly do that if you'll answer my questions too

Adam had other sons and daughters after Cain and Abel

Gen 5:3-4:
"And Adam lived two hundred and thirty years, and begot a son after his own likeness and after his own image, and called his name Seth. And the days of Adam which he lived after he begot Seth were seven hundred years, and he begot sons and daughters."

Would you now please answer mine:

Did Allah take Jesus to heaven in secret or in the presence of his Disciples?

I said i don't know since my salvation does not depend on it.

What happened to Cain after?

shadeyinka:

If there is a contradiction between two views or school of thought, how does one determine the one speaking the truth?

Is it not by ASKING QUESTIONS?

Reasonable Questions!

Rashduct4luv:


Reasonable Questions!

Unfortunately, you are not in position to determine if a question is reasonable or not.

If a question is deammed unreasonable, a reasonable and tenable excuse and explanations need be made.

Rashduct4luv:


I said i don't know since my salvation does not depend on it.

What happened to Cain after?

If you wouldn't answer my own questions, why should I continue answering yours.

Gen 4:16-17:
"So Cain went out from the presence of God and dwelt in the land of Naid over against Eden. And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived and brought forth Enoch. And he employed himself in building a city and he called the city Enoch after his son's name."


So, what happened to Cain is explained above:


Since your next question is who did Cain marry: He married on of his numerous SISTERs!


This is the last question I will answer from you since you never answered mine!

aadoiza:


Allah worked a mystery because he works in mysterious ways. He does what he wants how

And the mysterious way is to deceive his creatures. And you guys see that as Morally right.

Rashduct4luv:


Our Allah is far above deceit. I can highlight you a lists of deceit from your Book. Spare me the ''deceit" word. If you don't have any other thing to talk about make i vamoose.

Point of correction. Anyone called God can not die. i.e. He is not subject to His own creation that kills. God does not have parents. God does not eat, sleep, feel helpless, cry, pass through a woman's womb. In short, God does not appear in a human form cos it does not befit Him. God does not switch between human and God wherein as God he can do all things but as human he can perform miracles but does not know the "hour". God is not a "geenie".

Christianity has been mixed with Polytheistic beliefs

But your Koran says that "Allah is the best of deceivers" Chapter 3:54

Are you re-writing Islam?

All these are your make-up (Boju Boju). Not what Islam states. Is Allah a spirit according to your Koran?

Your Allah is a "genie" according to Aisha.

The association of Mohamed with Allah(no shahada without Mohamed), the kissing of the black stone(or is it leftover pieces glued together), the circumambulation, the throwing of stone at the 'devil'(as if he is a physical being dwelling in a fixed place), the slaughtering of ram(to appease Allah?) etc, shows Islam to be more polytheist and pagan than most other religions.

The fact that rather than answer simple questions you guys suddenly resort to diversionary tactics show you up for who you are.

You guys are as mixed up just as how portions and verses in the Koran have been muddled up resulting in a book without clear context.