shadeyinka:

You surely do not understand my argument.

You said "Only the body goes into the Lake of Fire!"
My argument is that the Body, Soul and Spirit of Man goes into the lake of fire.

Let me break it down for you starting from the definition of your soul which you say could mean three things:

* A living person or animal
* Life force or life of a person
* Faculty or reasoning or intellect of a person,mind,thoughts

At Resurrection, would
1. The person be living?
2. Would the person have Life force or life?
3. Would the person have the faculty of reasoning, or intellect, mind or thoughts?

If for each of the three questions above, your answer is YES, then it means that the person being cast into hell has a soul (by your definition).

You believe that the spirit of man returns to God at Death. Now, at resurrection, what happens to this spirit? Does this spirit return back to the body?

If the spirit returns back to man, doesn't it imply that the man is cast alive into the lake of fire with his spirit inside his body?

So you see why your argument is flawed

shadeyinka:

You surely do not understand my argument.

You said "Only the body goes into the Lake of Fire!"
My argument is that the Body, Soul and Spirit of Man goes into the lake of fire.

Let me break it down for you starting from the definition of your soul which you say could mean three things:

* A living person or animal
* Life force or life of a person
* Faculty or reasoning or intellect of a person,mind,thoughts

At Resurrection, would
1. The person be living?
2. Would the person have Life force or life?
3. Would the person have the faculty of reasoning, or intellect, mind or thoughts?

If for each of the three questions above, your answer is YES, then it means that the person being cast into hell has a soul (by your definition).

You believe that the spirit of man returns to God at Death. Now, at resurrection, what happens to this spirit? Does this spirit return back to the body?

If the spirit returns back to man, doesn't it imply that the man is cast alive into the lake of fire with his spirit inside his body?

So you see why your argument is flawed

shadeyinka:

You surely do not understand my argument.

You said "Only the body goes into the Lake of Fire!"
My argument is that the Body, Soul and Spirit of Man goes into the lake of fire.

Let me break it down for you starting from the definition of your soul which you say could mean three things:

* A living person or animal
* Life force or life of a person
* Faculty or reasoning or intellect of a person,mind,thoughts

At Resurrection, would
1. The person be living?
2. Would the person have Life force or life?
3. Would the person have the faculty of reasoning, or intellect, mind or thoughts?

If for each of the three questions above, your answer is YES, then it means that the person being cast into hell has a soul (by your definition).

You believe that the spirit of man returns to God at Death. Now, at resurrection, what happens to this spirit? Does this spirit return back to the body?

If the spirit returns back to man, doesn't it imply that the man is cast alive into the lake of fire with his spirit inside his body?

So you see why your argument is flawed

shadeyinka:

You surely do not understand my argument.

You said "Only the body goes into the Lake of Fire!"
My argument is that the Body, Soul and Spirit of Man goes into the lake of fire.

Let me break it down for you starting from the definition of your soul which you say could mean three things:

* A living person or animal
* Life force or life of a person
* Faculty or reasoning or intellect of a person,mind,thoughts

At Resurrection, would
1. The person be living? Yes thats while it is called resurrection ( bringing back to life)
2. Would the person have Life force or life? yes thats the only way resurrection occurs.


3. Would the person have the faculty of reasoning, or intellect, mind or thoughts? Yes thats is why they are a living Soul.

If for each of the three questions above, your answer is YES, then it means that the person being cast into hell has a soul (by your definition).

You believe that the spirit of man returns to God at Death. Now, at resurrection, what happens to this spirit? Does this spirit return back to the body?

If the spirit returns back to man, doesn't it imply that the man is cast alive into the lake of fire with his spirit inside his body?

So you see why your argument is flawed

shadeyinka:

You surely do not understand my argument.

You said "Only the body goes into the Lake of Fire!"
My argument is that the Body, Soul and Spirit of Man goes into the lake of fire.

Let me break it down for you starting from the definition of your soul which you say could mean three things:

* A living person or animal
* Life force or life of a person
* Faculty or reasoning or intellect of a person,mind,thoughts

At Resurrection, would
1. The person be living?
2. Would the person have Life force or life?
3. Would the person have the faculty of reasoning, or intellect, mind or thoughts?

If for each of the three questions above, your answer is YES, then it means that the person being cast into hell has a soul (by your definition).

You believe that the spirit of man returns to God at Death. Now, at resurrection, what happens to this spirit? Does this spirit return back to the body?

If the spirit returns back to man, doesn't it imply that the man is cast alive into the lake of fire with his spirit inside his body?

So you see why your argument is flawed

blueAgent:

blueAgent:



You make big issue out of nothing.

What is resurrection?
It is the bring back to life a dead person.
when a man is resurrected the spirit or life force from God returns to the body and the body comes a live, immediately the persons past memories, personality, ideology all return back to the person, this a call his soul.
Remember a living man or person is called a Soul.

blueAgent:



You are the one who is confusing yourself.

All through the article I never meant that it was the body that is sent to Heaven or Hell.

Rather what I did or wrote was to show that it is our living bodies or persons that is rewarded and not an imaginary soul or spirit as claimed.

To even proof this fact, I mentioned that there will be resurrection of the just and unjust. of course resurrection means a dead person coming back to life.
I also mentioned that the just receive new bodies but the unjust do not.

There is sufficient facts and evidence to prove that I meant a living body or person is what is rewarded in Heaven or Hell.

blueAgent:


You are only talking from your little confused mind.

If it was not important why did God inform or inspire Paul to write it in the Bible?

Right now in Christaindom about 85% of Christians or more believe the soul is immortal and will be sent to Heaven or Hell.

There are several false doctrines and consequences that this false teachings and doctrine has created.

If you knew better you would have shown me how my article contradicts God's word.

If what I wrote is false, then prove me wrong but if it is right than let it be.
There are millions who are dieing to know the truth about God's word and purpose for humanity.

Rather than draw people away from God this thread reveal the true and justice nature of God and his word.

It will draw and increase people's faith.

If you are not willingly to humble yourself and learn about God's true word than am sorry Heaven is light years far from you.

shadeyinka:

I think your problem is that you have a preconceived idea of what other Christians call the soul as different from what the Bible calls the Soul.

Your definition of soul is correct:
The soul is your personal identity
The soul is the center of your emotion, will and intellect
The soul is the YOU inside your body

The soul cannot Self-Exist by itself. The soul need either a Spiritual Body or a Physical Body to express itself.
Examples:
Angels, Demons, (Union of Soul and Spirit)
Animals (Union of Soul and Body)
Humans (Union of Soul, Body an Spirit)

If Angels can exist as a union of Soul and Spirit, why can't humans at death be conscious and exist without their bodies as a union of their Soul and Spirit? Although this isn't the course of your discussion.

Now, the question you should answer is that:
Does the ungodly person's body go to the lake of fire with his consciousness, identity, emotion,will, intellect and personality?

If YES, it means he's cast into the lake of fire with his soul.
If the spirit returns into his body at resurrection, then it means his spirit also follow his body into the Lake of Fire!

shadeyinka:

And when resurrection takes place, spirit or life force from God returns to the body and the body comes a live, immediately the persons past memories, personality, ideology all return back to the person, this a call his soul.

The ungodly have their soul when cast alive into the lake of fire. So, what goes into hell?
It's the union of an ungodly man's body, soul and spirit.

shadeyinka:

If your answers are all in affirmative, then
In other words, the ungodly are thrown into the lake of fire with the union of their soul and body!

Image123:


Bros, i don't have strength for these back and more backs. Hope your itinerant knowledge saves you.

blueAgent:



You are just complicating the issue.

Now, the question you should answer is that:
Does the ungodly person's body go to the lake of fire with his
consciousness, identity, emotion,will, intellect and personality?

ANS is

Yes. thats while there is a resurrection


****
If YES, it means he's cast into the lake of fire with his soul.

You keep making the same mistake of associating a man Soul with something external from a man.
The soul cannot be sperate or united with a man. Man himself is a living soul, he does not have a soul but he himself as long as he is living is a soul.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


God did not add Soul to the body from dust he has formed, he only added life or breathe or spirit into the body and a living soul which is man was formed.

blueAgent:


There is nothing like union of body, soul and spirit.

What goes to Hell is a living person(of course a living wicked, unrighteous sinner).
A living person has a body, breathe which is the spirit or life force from God.
and because the person is living he will have memories,thinking capacity,thoughts,personality, all this are likened to his soul.

Note .

What is destroyed in Hell is the living person which bible calls the second death.

blueAgent:



Let me correct one wrong impression.

I never said it was only the body that is cast into Heaven or Hell.

My aim of writing this topic was to refute a preacher I had sometime ago who was claiming that immediately we die our soul faces judgment and is cast into Hell or Heaven.

After much research I discover that what is actually reward is our resurrected meaning living bodies or persons and not some imaginary soul or spirit as claimed by the preacher.

shadeyinka:

It seems there are two levels of judgment of the ungodly.
1. The judgement of hell/gehana
E.g. Lazarus and the Rich man.
2. The judgement of the Lake of Fire.(second death or the Lake of Fire)

The soul and spirit of man are not imaginary.

You don't have problems with angels manifesting as physical beings BUT you have problem with physical beings manifesting as spirit beings.

1Ths 5:23:
"And may the God of peace Himself sanctify you, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blamelessly at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

If the soul and spirit are imaginary, what then is the meaning of the scripture above?

shadeyinka:

The soul is the one who owns the body. The body isn't thrown in hell without the owner of the body (the Soul).
That Conscious Identity or personality is the one that is thrown into the lake of fire
The body is just it's Physical representation/covering.

shadeyinka:
Check the bolded.
If man is a living soul, who then is thrown into the lake of fire? Is it not the same living soul?

blueAgent:


Are you running away?

You could have told me why God inspired Paul to teach on the resurrection and the reward of the just and the unjust since it does not matter or has an effect on ones salvation.

I guess you know more than God himself?

Mr know all.

Blakewilli:
So then, what does 'dry bones shall rise again' mean?

PlayerMeji:
If you check the first and last pages of the holy Bible, one word appears familiar in the two pages and that's the SPIRIT OF GOD!

That means God is a spirit and only the spirit would be important to God.

blueAgent:


So what will happen to the Spirit?

blueAgent:


So why do you keep separating the 2?

blueAgent:


No where is this written in the Bible.

What bible defines as a soul is a living person.

Genesis 12:5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.

Persons in this bible verse are referred to as Souls.

blueAgent:

When God made man, God did not add any soul, just his breathe or spirit(life force) and man became a living Soul.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

The question is where was the Soul of man in Genesis2:7 before God. made man?

blueAgent:



There is only one Judgment.

The rich man and Lazarus is a parable it never happened.
The spirit and soul of Man are imaginary, they cannot be seen.


For 1Ths 5:23.

You are guilty of taking verses out of context.

This bible verse does not prove that the Soul or spirit lives on after death.

From the Bible verse we can see that Paul is talking to the people who were alive then.
Paul's view agrees with my post because Most people think of the three components of every human being as body,
soul, and spirit, but Paul reverses this order, giving highest priority to the
spirit and the lowest priority to the body.

The spirit connects us to God and enables us to worship God and to fellowship with Him. The soul is the seat of emotions and makes us conscious of our being.

The body connects us to our environment. We need to be kept faultless by God in our worship of Him and in our fellowship with Him. We need to be free of any legitimate accusation in our inner being and in our social relationships.

blueAgent:

The Spirit can refer to the Mind, thoughts,will.

Soul is our personality, emotions physce,
In order words Paul is saying that we should serve God with our Hearts and mind(spirit) or emotions and personality(soul) and our bodies(keeping away from sin and formication).

Image123:


Talking about knowing all.

Rev 22:18 KJV For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

If your "revelations" about the itinerary of souls and spirits were of any importance, we'll see it taught in scriptures. My advice to leave you with as there's no edification whatsoever in the vain interaction.

Heb 13:9 KJV Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

i have no further response to you on this irrelevant subject. Peace.

Image123:


Talking about knowing all.

Rev 22:18 KJV For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

If your "revelations" about the itinerary of souls and spirits were of any importance, we'll see it taught in scriptures. My advice to leave you with as there's no edification whatsoever in the vain interaction.

Heb 13:9 KJV Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

i have no further response to you on this irrelevant subject. Peace.

shadeyinka:

1. The lame argument that Jesus was merely saying a parable!
What was the lesson Jesus was teaching with this parable different from the obvious?

2. Jesus spoke to the "good thief": today, you'll be with Me in paradise!
Is this also a parable?
If the "unconscious state" of the thief will be in paradise, could he still be unconscious?

3. Remember the interaction between the Witch of Endor, King Saul and "Samuel"!
How come the supposed unconscious Samuel spoke to Saul?

1Sam 28:11-16: "And the woman said, Whom shall I bring up to you? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. And the woman saw Samuel, and cried with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, Why have you deceived me? For you [are] Saul! And the king said to her, Do not be afraid. For what did you see? And the woman said to Saul, I saw gods coming up out of the earth. And he said to her, What [is] his form? And she said, An old man comes up, and he is covered with a cloak. And Saul saw that it was Samuel, and [he] bowed [his] face to the ground, and prostrated himself. And Samuel said to Saul, Why have you disturbed me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am grievously distressed, for the Philistines are warring against me. And God has left me and does not answer me any more, neither by prophets nor by dreams. And I have called you so that you may make known to me what I should do. And Samuel said , Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has left you and has become your enemy?"

Was Saul also seeing a vision?

4. What is the meaning of the "parable/vision" where where the souls of the dead of the dead spoke and were clothed in white....?

Rev 6:9-11:
"And when He had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, Until when, Master, holy and true, do You not judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth? And white robes were given to each one of them. And it was said to them that they should rest yet for a little time, until both their fellow servants and their brothers (those about to be killed as they [were] ) should have their number made complete."


If it's a symbolic vision, please explain?


5. Saw the souls of those beheaded (before their resurrection) AND they LIVED.
Why the tutology AND they LIVED is the "souls" meant person/people?

Rev 20:4:
"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And [I saw] the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received [his] mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."




You've started mixing up the definitions again. Is there no difference between the soul and spirit of man?

See how you had to redefine the meaning of spirit to explain the scripture!

How illogical do you think these short statements are:
-The Body give us a Physical Identity relates with the Physical realm
-The Spirit gives us a Spiritual Identity and relates with the Spiritual realm
-The Soul(Will, Emotion, Intellect) gives us a Self/Personal Identity and relates with our internal realm

shadeyinka:

1. The lame argument that Jesus was merely saying a parable!
What was the lesson Jesus was teaching with this parable different from the obvious?

2. Jesus spoke to the "good thief": today, you'll be with Me in paradise!
Is this also a parable?
If the "unconscious state" of the thief will be in paradise, could he still be unconscious?

3. Remember the interaction between the Witch of Endor, King Saul and "Samuel"!
How come the supposed unconscious Samuel spoke to Saul?

1Sam 28:11-16: "And the woman said, Whom shall I bring up to you? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. And the woman saw Samuel, and cried with a loud voice. And the woman spoke to Saul, saying, Why have you deceived me? For you [are] Saul! And the king said to her, Do not be afraid. For what did you see? And the woman said to Saul, I saw gods coming up out of the earth. And he said to her, What [is] his form? And she said, An old man comes up, and he is covered with a cloak. And Saul saw that it was Samuel, and [he] bowed [his] face to the ground, and prostrated himself. And Samuel said to Saul, Why have you disturbed me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am grievously distressed, for the Philistines are warring against me. And God has left me and does not answer me any more, neither by prophets nor by dreams. And I have called you so that you may make known to me what I should do. And Samuel said , Why then do you ask me, since the LORD has left you and has become your enemy?"

Was Saul also seeing a vision?

4. What is the meaning of the "parable/vision" where where the souls of the dead of the dead spoke and were clothed in white....?

Rev 6:9-11:
"And when He had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, Until when, Master, holy and true, do You not judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth? And white robes were given to each one of them. And it was said to them that they should rest yet for a little time, until both their fellow servants and their brothers (those about to be killed as they [were] ) should have their number made complete."


If it's a symbolic vision, please explain?


5. Saw the souls of those beheaded (before their resurrection) AND they LIVED.
Why the tutology AND they LIVED is the "souls" meant person/people?

Rev 20:4:
"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And [I saw] the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received [his] mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."




You've started mixing up the definitions again. Is there no difference between the soul and spirit of man?

See how you had to redefine the meaning of spirit to explain the scripture!

How illogical do you think these short statements are:
-The Body give us a Physical Identity relates with the Physical realm
-The Spirit gives us a Spiritual Identity and relates with the Spiritual realm
-The Soul(Will, Emotion, Intellect) gives us a Self/Personal Identity and relates with our internal realm

shadeyinka:

Man is a living soul in a body. The body was first created from clay: it was after the body that the ruach from God made the lifeless body alive.

If man's carcass isn't the one thrown into the lake of fire, then, you must account for his soul that makes the dead carcass living.


You have slipped into the error of using only one definition for soul forgetting that you said that the soul has three basic definition of which "Life Force" is one of them.


Your argument is flawed because @bolded make it look like you mean the soul is mere AIR! The soul isn't air but that input from God that give consciousness to the carcass/body of man.

Why do you think the scripture made a distinction between the body, soul and spirit?

1Ths 5:23:
"And may the God of peace Himself sanctify you, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blamelessly at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."


Your question:
The soul of the body comes after and not before the body is made.
The soul of man is the software that runs the physical body and gives the body a consciousness and personal identity.


A Question:
Is your soul different from your body?
If they are the same, is medically keeping a body alive tantamount to keeping the soul alive?
If they are not the same, is it not saying that the union of man's body and soul is cast into the lake of fire?

Note: The question is like asking you if softwares is different from the hardware of a computer.