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Nairaland Forum / Science/Technology / Programming / Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate (25856 Views)
Self-taught Programmers / How Did You Land You First Job As A Self-taught Developer? / Why Self Taught Programmers Over “Exaggerate”. (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by IamGoke(m): 1:51pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
Corporate2020: I don't see reason why an Elect/Elect engineer can't fix server side problems which is part of there basic course in school! You can school me more on this. I believe in whatever you do, seeking for more knowledge to be highly skilled and proficient is very vital in your field of expertise. We should learn how to identify and distinguish incompetent from wrong course of study. |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by ernieboy(m): 1:54pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
stanliwise:a.coder or programmer is much more than a web developer, coding also encompasses areas such as desktop programming, embedded programming, console programming etc but a lot of u are using web dev and coding interchangeably like it is the entirety of coding. |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by ernieboy(m): 1:59pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
tollyboy5:thanls, u grasps what I am saying, a coder is programmer, often time he/she will specialist on an aspect of programming and web development is just one aspect or area u can specialise on 1 Like |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Asour: 2:04pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
SegFault: True. But you are an exception. The reality is that the Nigerian educational system hardly allows for in-depth perfection of the craft while balancing theories (and succeeding academically). Matter of fact, most Lecturers are theory heads(Not bad, but limiting). Again in the industry in Nigeria, there's little funding/encouragement for long term thinking and investment in advanced Compute technologies. I am totally against pride & Prestige (from the self taught Community) but for those underestimating the self taught, The question to them is, Were the individual(s) who drew up the First Engineering Syllabus Engineers? Education and Standardization of Knowledge with Certifications is to establish base level knowledge. Those who are extremely talented in aptitude don't have to "go to school" beyond a certain level. They make their path. 4 Likes |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Asour: 2:08pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
ayoola27: Try Runestonecademy. It's an interactive, textbookstyle programming course. https://runestone.academy/runestone/default/user/login?_next=/runestone/default/index |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Asour: 2:13pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
techmo: You are mostly right. However, the question then becomes, Were the Individual (s) who developed the Original foundations of what is the Current Computer Science Syllabus themselves Computer Scientists? If they were, It's hard to say that there wasn't a Large element of Heuristics involved. |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Corporate2020: 2:17pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
IamGoke: Elect/Elect Engrs definitely can fixed Server hardware problems, but maintaining IBM Servers running AIX, Red Hat Linus, Storage O.S. NAS and SAN Storages, e.t.c. is more than just electronics knowledge. 2 Likes |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Asour: 2:19pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
crownedrookie: Do you already have a BSc. If you do an in a quantitative field you could go for an Informatics degree (MSc.) In Europe. Otherwise Western Governor University has an Online Computer Science Degree Programme . It's quite expensive though. |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by stanliwise(m): 2:21pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
ernieboy:were we not talking about web? And for your info coders are not more than web they only have an overlapped. Web dev is far more than coding. 1 Like |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Nobody: 2:22pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
Asour:I mean to stay in Nigeria for at least the next 3-5 years bettering my craft. The online degree programme is what my boss suggested and the company will be footing the bill that has already been discussed. I was asking for a structured YouTube CS playlist I can be using for now |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Asour: 2:25pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
golddare: Your take on Specialization is spot on. Totally agree. There's only so much the human mind is capable of excelling in at once. However, you don't have to go to the "Road Side" guys for anything. Inaccessibility to information made us to believe so but not anymore. There are books /Videos and Courses on probably any Practical Technology under the sun on the internet today. You just need the time /focus and motivation to scour and read/understand them. Forums too. 1 Like |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by olioxx(m): 2:25pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
Shepherdd:. Very VERY good write up. Most people fail to realise that the theory you learn during your Computer Science class goes a long way in furnishing your competency. I am still a CS student and I'm proud of that and I know it is not a waste of time. You can never compare a CS student to someone who went to a bootcamp. They just dont compare. And to those Self taught coders that exaggerate and that think they are far better than CS student, OYO is your case. A lot of master invention are product birthed by CS students themselve. CS student establish the engine/core while self taught developer build on the engine. Your knowledge of some CS stuff along the years will make you a better programmer in any field of your choice. Rob Pike co-creator of Go, UTF-8 was a CS student. Dennis Ritchie co-creator C prog lang, co-creator of UNIX OS, co-creator of B prog lang was a CS student. Ken Thompson creator of B programming lang,co-creator C prog lang, co-creator of Go, co-creator of UTF-8 was a CS student he is known for UNIX OS that is one of the foundation of modern computing. Sergery Brin co-founder of Google and X was a CS student. . To every self-taught developer(that might think CS studying is a waste of time and effort), I want us play to a little game. * Explain the internal workings of a compiler, and the possible phases a compiler can have. * Explain briefly the Architecture of the CLR (Common Language Runtime), JIT(Just In Time) Compilation. * What three core operation does a basic compiler work with. * Write a simple Fibonacci series algorithm, where it will print out the series to the 20th term and where you can specify the nth term you desire. * Write a simple algorithm that can give out the ASCII values you inputted * Find the 2's complement of 11111000, 11001010, 6A3D, E9F * As related to x86 architecture find the bit and hexadecimal of the following IP address 127.0.0.1, 956.56.0.0(use little endianess) . * Briefly explain the internal working of cdecl, fastcall, stdcall. And which does Windows use for callng DLLs and APIs * List out the possible components that enables Win32 API to access the Kernel Mode of a basics Windows NT Operating system, Briefly explain Native API as related to Windows OS. . Note this is for FUN. 2 Likes |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by stanliwise(m): 2:30pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
Crvrider:be it motivating or not. Computing science is not programming. You heard it clearly from me. Infact at some point you get with CSC. You don’t write any code. It is a misinformation to assume that programming is something core to CSC. Real computer scientist don’t spend most of their time writing code. They spend it majorly on computing data. Anyone writes code and programs. Computational Science core is not coding. Awkwardly it is difficult to see a computer scientist that can’t code. This is because most of the brilliant idea are useful when it works on a software and serve people but the brilliant idea was before the coding. 2 Likes |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by olioxx(m): 2:30pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
techmo:.. Nice writeup. |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Asour: 2:34pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
crownedrookie: Better go the Edx route. YouTubers typically have their Niches. Since CS syllabus is a Nexus between Maths, Statistics and a Plethora of Problem solving techniques for Computing you are better served by Edx which was developed by some universities themselves. 1 Like |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by onegig(m): 2:34pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
jackyraw09: It isn't that different overseas.. Just that they have more course work in terms of practical classes and much more streamlined course content. You can't do a broad CS in most Universities overseas. It has to be a key area, Web development, Multimedia, Information systems or of recent cyber security or security systems. This gives you a much more narrow range in terms of expertise instead of doing everything from Fortran to Laplace transforms. CS is extremely wide and the way we teach in Nigeria is just where the trouble is . It needs to be unbundled to individual course content before students can appreciate it better. I redid a course last year which was targeted at 1st year students of computer science in the UK and difference in what i learnt was way advanced and useful than all i did in 100level to 200level here. In Nigeria we were bogged down with Plant biology, Physics and chemistry and i did only 2 CS courses in 100level here which was grossly inadequate. Most of what i know now were leveraging what was taught and going further to seek more but you can't discard the basis it gives you. There is a clarity of purpose when you really studied CS. Why we think someone learning programming is much more better is because we don't use IT that deep. If you worked on embedded systems and you start understanding how low level machines react to every bit of code you wouldn't discard your understanding of Machine Language you learnt in CS and this can apply to everything from arrays to pointers. 5 Likes |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by jelel6: 3:02pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
Oops!!! I almost didn't see this interesting discuss. This can be a potentially long post... A lot of interesting things have been said by those arguing for both sides. I think some of the disagreements are not really present or necessary as it has to do with 'semantics'. I don't think or see these things as a 'better than' or 'more than' argument. Hence, a Computer science knowledge will come in handy for many situations and circumstances likewise a 'self taught' will work for other situations or circumstances. Now, computer science is synonymous with Information and communications technology (ICT) in many ways. The internet, is the fastest growing sphere in the modern world. So many of our lives as it is, is shaped as technology dictates. Now, I think it's foolhardy to believe a 4 year study in "Any" University, will make you an authority in every and any specialty under ICT Computer science can be theoretical and very practical at the same time. Technology is where theories meet practice. Most of the things and techniques being taught in many schools, including the USA and Europe, does not prepare the CS grad for live in the Industry. Before, you come for me, take a minute and read similar opinions of Industry leaders on platforms like Medium and Quora. Besides, how can a 4 year school curriculum encompass the fast-paced Internet/technology world as we have today? They don't teach or focus enough on an area to be of any 'specific' value to a company 'fresh out of school'. They'll still need to learn 90% of what they'll need to be ready to contribute to a company out of school or 'on the job!' That's how it is happening in the western world. And many CS grads are usually honest to say so themselves. We can't all have a CS certificate. But we can all have the Knowledge. Free of charge. The major difference between how a CS students uses that knowledge during their stay in school is strikingly different from how a company NEEDS an employee to utilize that knowledge. You only need to know enough to get the job done, when the need arises. And not be a theorist for many years without knowing when or if there'll ever be a real life use cases for all that knowledge. That's just the system, not an attack on the CS persons. Just that with so many things to learn, studying so many things you may not ever use (highly likely in software/tech) doesn't seem like the best use of time. 4 Likes |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by selfdefence: 3:20pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
I think the whole idea is not just looking down on someone studying the course but challenging themselves that irrespective of whether they attended the degree course in University or not they can do much with what they learned outside school, it's just like me wondering why someone would stress themselves going to the banking hall for a transaction knowing fully well I could comfortably carry out any transactions from the comfort of my home by dailing *737# on my phone. |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Grandlord: 3:21pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
stanliwise:Damn! You just made the whole concept of data structures and algo clearer to me. A thousand thanks. Do you have more to add? Any learning resources you might recommend? 1 Like |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by olioxx(m): 3:31pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
Asour:… I want to believe you were joking asking that question. But if you weren't joking by that asking that question, then I'm speechless. |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Grandlord: 3:43pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
avalon7: |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by techstack: 3:45pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
ProfAmaben: Yes, MongoDB, Express, React and Node.js C# at work and Nodejs for private projects But lately have been using Nestjs. NestJs is Typescript written on top Expressjs by default. you can change it to Fastify. Nestjs has the same architecture as Angular. I always get someone to do the frontend on the personal projects while I focus on the backend, unless at work when I have to do asp.net MVC If you are cool with Nestjs I can let you in on a project. We have a team already. we are looking for more hands for the next phase https://www.nairaland.com/5948132/anyone-here-used-nestjs-whats |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Asour: 3:46pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
olioxx: I certainly wasn't. Hans Leibherr wasn't an Engineer. The tenacity/Craftsmanship he's demonstrated (even though his Companies now employ Engineers) predates his Engineering "Qualifications". |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Nobody: 3:54pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
I've been wondering ; what would be the best way to learn programming for a beginner ? . option 1 : just pick up some books and videos on a particular aspect and build lots of projects e.g : Learn python the hard way Option 2 : start by learning the basics of programming in a particular language by using MOOC's . E.g : introduction to programming in Python. |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by ProfAmaben(m): 4:22pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
techstack:You have a robust portfolio, it exhudes hardwork and determination. On your question, I am open to projects but this Typescript was the reason I ditched Angular for REACT. I prefer JSX in REACT due to its HTML and JavaScript hybrid platform. If you can give me details on the project, I can sacrifice a weekend to do a Nest.js crash course. |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Daejoyoung: 4:26pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
ARCHEMEDESME:Learn the basics first, but don't spend time on the basics then immediately go to option 1, then go back to the basics, then go to option 1 again. |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Ayo081(m): 4:47pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
OP focus, eevery programmer is self-taught |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by felixawe(m): 5:00pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
ARCHEMEDESME: Computer science is very broad, depending on the area u are most skill... No one can exhaust CS. In Nigeria, most CS student don't know web development & design & programming & ordinary graphic design. I discovered, they where mainly taught mathematics & to have a certificate. No one knows all in computer Science. It saddens me when I see some CS fellow graduates who doesn't have a pc . 1 Like |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by golddare: 5:06pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
Asour: Yes you are right everything is on the internet but unfortunately that was over 14years ago, internet was still a luxury then, we were still queuing at the cafe and sometimes doing overnight so has to have enough time. I think it's just a principle of life, just like the law of comparative advantage in economics, every individual needs to focus on where you think you are good, be excellent in it and you will definitely be successful. 1 Like |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Shepherdd(m): 6:19pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
shadeyinka:You have good points. It's an open secret that the education system is broken. But the thing is other countries also produces theoretical CS graduates even though they have better curriculum, teaching materials and better labs(not talking about laboratory here) but they mitigate the issue by one single factor which is quality internship. Imagine a CS student in US looking for internship, he has companies like Intel, Nvidia e.t.c to apply if he is into cpus, or if he is into CNS Cisco and co are there, if he wants system engineering or programming then Google, Amazon, Microsoft are there e.t.c. All major countries provides quality internship to undergraduates but that's not the case in Nigeria and that's why I think we have self taught computer scientist graduates in Nigeria. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Why Do Self Taught Programmers Over Exaggerate by Shepherdd(m): 6:39pm On Jun 28, 2020 |
olioxx: what a show off. abeg no kill us please. 1 Like |
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