I have always questioned many activities in the body of Christ in the light of the word of God. One of such are those who claim to be called into deliverance ministry and believers (who claim to have been in-dwelled by the Holy Spirit) attending deliverance ministry year in and out but are still bound by demons.

So the question is, AFTER a man be in Christ, say genuinely be in Christ and Spirit filled, can such person still be possessed by demon(s)? Am not talking about not putting the flesh under subjection that sometimes, leads to sin of a believer but am talking about Holy Ghost sanctified and filled believer/Christian still being possessed by demons. How true is this? Kindly prove your points with scriptures please.

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 2 Cor. 3:17 Kjv

Now by "the Lord" is meant the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, freedom is enjoyed. (Weymouth New Testament)

So "where" the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty/freedom being enjoy. So if the Spirit of the Lord "indwells a believer (wherever the Spirit is...mined added), can such believer still be possessed by demons and go for deliverance sessions?

Goshen360: I have always questioned many activities in the body of Christ in the light of the word of God. One of such are those who claim to be called into deliverance ministry and believers (who claim to have been in-dwelled by the Holy Spirit) attending deliverance ministry year in and out but are still bound by demons.

So the question is, AFTER a man be in Christ, say genuinely be in Christ and Spirit filled, can such person still be possessed by demon(s)? Am not talking about not putting the flesh under subjection that sometimes, leads to sin of a believer but am talking about Holy Ghost sanctified and filled believer/Christian still being possessed by demons. How true is this? Kindly prove your points with scriptures please.

Interesting topic there, sir!

Here's how I normally start out discussing topics like this. First I state my position (which I firmly believe is the bible's and leaves no room for private opinions or interpretations), then I state why I've taken up this position regarding this matter.

My position - Christians cannot have demons. The Holy Spirit and demons cannot be in a particular vessel at the same time.

Scripture backup - well, there are no biblical examples of a demon-possessed Christian. None that I know of at least. I'd be happy to be pointed to one or two.


* Just as an aside: abeg, what's the meaning of the term "spirit-filled Christian"? Isn't that tautology (make una no vex o, I no know book so well)? My point is; can there be a Christian not filled with the Spirit? Isn't the promise of the Spirit the major privilege believers under the new have that those under the old didn't? Doesn't the scripture say "if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his" (Rom 8:9)?

Excellent thread, my friend!
It is contradictory that the vast majority of the "possessed" are just Christians...
The question that arises is this: the Christian God does not protect its devotees? The Christian god has no power to care for their children from the dangers of Satan?
I never understood that.
I do not understand why a God so powerful, is fighting for thousands of years against Satan, unable to overcome ...
I suitable to send a fraternal embrace, dear friend!

Ptolomeus: Excellent thread, my friend!
It is contradictory that the vast majority of the "possessed" are just Christians...
The question that arises is this: the Christian God does not protect its devotees? The Christian god has no power to care for their children from the dangers of Satan?
I never understood that.
I do not understand why a God so powerful, is fighting for thousands of years against Satan, unable to overcome ...
I suitable to send a fraternal embrace, dear friend!

The case is not as you understand it my friend. You see, we have the "immatures" in Christ who are constantly being spoon fed and these are referred to those who are tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine. The bible also say, an heir when he a child is not different or better than a slave. What are we saying? Many Christian do not know and understand their right/priviledges in Christ hence, they succumb to anything. In such case, the bible says, bear the burden of one another. The issue is not the true believers verses Satan. The issue is the true church still fighting the false church. Hence, the efforts of the faithful "fews" that the bible talked about is being sabotaged.

What do you have to say about this topic though?

petres_007:

Interesting topic there, sir!

Here's how I normally start out discussing topics like this. First I state my position (which I firmly believe is the bible's and leaves no room for private opinions or interpretations), then I state why I've taken up this position regarding this matter.

My position - Christians cannot have demons. The Holy Spirit and demons cannot be in a particular vessel at the same time.

Scripture backup - well, there are no biblical examples of a demon-possessed Christian. None that I know of at least. I'd be happy to be pointed to one or two.

* Just as an aside: abeg, what's the meaning of the term "spirit-filled Christian"? Isn't that tautology (make una no vex o, I no know book so well)? My point is; can there be a Christian not filled with the Spirit? Isn't the promise of the Spirit the major privilege believers under the new have that those under the old didn't? Doesn't the scripture say "if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his" (Rom 8:9)?

To believe and to have the Holy Spirit are two different things. It is possible to have them same day but not at the same time for one must first believe first then have the indwell of the Holy Spirit. I acknowledge your contribution as to you don't believe a Christian can be possessed with demons. Nice sayings there. Take a look at this verse:

"Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" he asked them. "No," they replied, "we haven't even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." Acts 19:2 (NLT)

A christian cannot be possessed of demons, but he can be demonized , he opens the door to the enemy.

Joagbaje: A christian cannot be possessed of demons, but he can be demonized , he opens the door to the enemy.

Sir,

First you say a Christian cannot be possessed of demons. Then you say he can be demonized. Thats an outright contradiction to me. Kindly clarify.

Secondly, you say a Christian can "open the door to the enemy". If you ask me, I'd say there isn't a single biblical example of this. I acknowledge however, that you could know of one or two I don't. Please state them here.

Joagbaje: A christian cannot be possessed of demons, but he can be demonized , he opens the door to the enemy.

Okay. Agreed that a Christian cannot be possessed of demons but demonized. How do you mean by being demonized? And what is the difference btw being demonized and being possessed by demon(s)? You can clarify for purpose of others who are following this thread.

@OP, like you quoted: "Where the spirit of the Lord is, there is Liberty".
If everyone is to be honest with themselves, no matter how spirit-filled they "appear" to be, they could probably tell you they have an idea how something may have scurried its way in that shouldn't have by certain doors they opened or certain careless acts which might make the Spirit of the lord remove his hands from that section of their life. But we thank God for the redemptive power of Christ by which we can then take hold to re-purify our lives.

As to the matter of ancestral what-nots (which is a common thing in Nigeria given the demonic deceit from past generations), that requires an understanding in the individual of their new right in Christ, and not just a "I go church today" mindset.
The continued occurence of such harrassment from the enemy should rouse, not just a person's frustration....but more usefully, a person's Holy Anger.
Holy anger is the catalyst. This is what ebbs and flows and becomes the neccessary violence in your prayers when decreeing against the particular issue that, by all divine law, has no right to be there given your new stand in Christ. These prayers need be directed and not abstract.

The problem is, the enemy has muddled with Christians today that his effects tend to rouse only their frustration, and not their holy anger.
The Deliverance ministry is a very valid and useful ministry, as much as a hospital is a very useful institution to those who are not spiritually abreast enough to demand their liberty from terminal illnesses through their stand in Christ.

And sometimes, in certain battles, support from an experienced squad of snipers is very well appreciated .

^^^

Very true. Off course we aren't talking about deliverance ministry that does deliverance before a person experience new birth in Christ. We are talking about already saved believer still being possessed by demons.

Goshen360:

To believe and to have the Holy Spirit are two different things.

Sir,

I don't believe this one bit. And just as expected, you cited the pillar for this teaching - Verse 2 of Acts 19

Goshen360:
"Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" he asked them. "No," they replied, "we haven't even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." Acts 19:2 (NLT)

Here's the account with verse 2 in its proper context:

1 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples.

2 And he said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said, "No, we have never even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."

3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" They said, "Into John's baptism."

4 And Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus."

5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.

- Acts 19:1 - 6 (RSV)

The passage tells us why these "disciples" needed a "second" work of grace - all they had was John's message of repentance. Therefore verse 2 (or verse 6 for that matter) cannot be used as evidence that a person first comes to the Lord, and then has to wait for the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

* I really don't want us to derail this thread and would be open to discussing this particular interesting topic sometime later, God willing.

Joagbaje: A christian cannot be possessed of demons, but he can be demonized[color=#990000][/color] , he opens the door to the enemy.

Still waiting for JoeAgbaje to clear this up.

Joagbaje done skedaddled

buzugee: Joagbaje done skedaddled

What does that mean?

Goshen360:

The case is not as you understand it my friend. You see, we have the "immatures" in Christ who are constantly being spoon fed and these are referred to those who are tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine. The bible also say, an heir when he a child is not different or better than a slave. What are we saying? Many Christian do not know and understand their right/priviledges in Christ hence, they succumb to anything. In such case, the bible says, bear the burden of one another. The issue is not the true believers verses Satan. The issue is the true church still fighting the false church. Hence, the efforts of the faithful "fews" that the bible talked about is being sabotaged.

What do you have to say about this topic though?

I totally agree.
It is difficult to follow a doctrine, a gospel, with so many false churches, with many tendentious interpretations ...
Perhaps the road is, unmasking the phonies ... do not know ...
A hard struggle ahead ...

#Can A Spirit Filled Christians....
"Spirit Filled".this is the most important point of the issue raised by OP.through out the bible "Spirit Filled" is for empowerment.adam and eve were spirit-filled,for exploits,though they weren't possessed by the serpent,the serpent made sure it short-circuited the plans with its allure.on a final note,one thing that is certain,is that God delivers His own from evil.by the way mull over this."And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Sau[/b]l, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand"- 1 Samuel 18:10

ps.
[b]@buzu

buzu were you slammed in the cooler over patience?

@petres_007
skedaddled to flight and not fight

All Joe was saying is exactly what I said.
Christians who by one way or another engage in sin give (in some form) legal foothold to demonic influences in their lives.
It is by repenting (truly, not just by mouth) of these sins and thus coming under the blood yet again that totally anulls whatever legalistic foothold the enemy had taken on that person's life and you then have every right to command them packing.

But depending on several factors, some fasting (putting off of flesh to take on a more frightful spiritual stature) might be necessary like Jesus said.
The problem again, is that most Christians are lazy or perish for lack of knowledge.

petres_007:

What does that mean?

ran away lol

danwo: #Can A Spirit Filled Christians....
"Spirit Filled".this is the most important point of the issue raised by OP.through out the bible "Spirit Filled" is for empowerment.adam and eve were spirit-filled,for exploits,though they weren't possessed by the serpent,the serpent made sure it short-circuited the plans with its allure.on a final note,one thing that is certain,is that God delivers His own from evil.by the way mull over this."And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Sau[/b]l, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand"- 1 Samuel 18:10

ps.
[b]@buzu

buzu were you slammed in the cooler over patience?

@petres_007
skedaddled to flight and not fight

slammed in the cooler ? not quite. what an imagination you have there

buzugee: slammed in the cooler ? not quite. what an imagination you have there

your post hastily and mysteriously disappeared,and you too,until today,so thought you got banned to instil more patience in you.

buzugee: ran away lol

Oh, I get it now

But I don't think that was enough to make the mighty JoeAgbaje "skedaddle" o. I'm sure when he's got time he'll come and explain it better to us.

2buff: All Joe was saying is exactly what I said.
Christians who by one way or another engage in sin give (in some form) legal foothold to demonic influences in their lives.
It is by repenting (truly, not just by mouth) of these sins and thus coming under the blood yet again that totally anulls whatever legalistic foothold the enemy had taken on that person's life and you then have every right to command them packing.

But depending on several factors, some fasting (putting off of flesh to take on a more frightful spiritual stature) might be necessary like Jesus said.
The problem again, is that most Christians are lazy or perish for lack of knowledge.

You see, this is the kind of unbiblical teaching always offered as explanation. I dare say there is absolutely no scriptural basis for this notion that sin opens up the Christian to demon possession.

The Corinthian church was an excellent example. They had it wrong on so many fronts, including sinning and openly condoning outrageous sins etc. The Apostle Paul rebukes and corrects them but never even hints at possible demon possession because of their actions.

If you have any biblical examples of Christians sinning and becoming infested with demons or even being so much as warned of demon possession, please post them here and lets look at them together.

petres_007:

Sir,
I don't believe this one bit. And just as expected, you cited the pillar for this teaching - Verse 2 of Acts 19
Here's the account with verse 2 in its proper context:

The passage tells us why these "disciples" needed a "second" work of grace - all they had was John's message of repentance. Therefore verse 2 (or verse 6 for that matter) cannot be used as evidence that a person first comes to the Lord, and then has to wait for the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

* I really don't want us to derail this thread and would be open to discussing this particular interesting topic sometime later, God willing.

It's not really an issue of derailing the thread. I am very open to your teachings and we can look at it together from the word of God. These "disciples" we are talking about, first believed in Jesus by the repentance which John preached. What I said earlier is, both spiritual new birth and baptism in the Holy Spirit dont take place SAME TIME. It can take place one minute after or some minutes after one gives his/her life to Christ and believe in Christ, repenting from one's sin and then follow the baptism. It can take place same day but not same time.

Another clear example are the disciples of Jesus, they were told to wait at the upper room in Jerusalem until they be filled with power by the Holy Ghost even though they had believed in Jesus Christ but they aren't filled with the Holy Ghost. These are many examples like that in the scriptures. However, I am open to your discussion should I err in this matter.

petres_007:

Oh, I get it now

But I don't think that was enough to make the mighty JoeAgbaje "skedaddle" o. I'm sure when he's got time he'll come and explain it better to us.



You see, this is the kind of unbiblical teaching always offered as explanation. I dare say there is absolutely no scriptural basis for this notion that sin opens up the Christian to demon possession.

The Corinthian church was an excellent example. They had it wrong on so many fronts, including sinning and openly condoning outrageous sins etc. The Apostle Paul rebukes and corrects them but never even hints at possible demon possession because of their actions.

If you have any biblical examples of Christians sinning and becoming infested with demons or even being so much as warned of demon possession, please post them here and lets look at them together.

This is not about demonic possession. It is about demonic influence in a persons life.

No-one said it is an instant thing.
But grace, like anything when abused, could become limited, allowing certain things into a persons life.
The result of which serve as a wake-up call to the person in question to snap up and be serious. This is simply God correcting his children. Read your bible.
Better to go through a situation that would make you get serious than to let you "cruise" your way down to hell un-pertubed.
Unless of course you're one of those who think professed christians, no matter how much unrepented evil they commit, never go to hell.

petres_007:

Oh, I get it now

But I don't think that was enough to make the mighty JoeAgbaje "skedaddle" o. I'm sure when he's got time he'll come and explain it better to us.

You see, this is the kind of unbiblical teaching always offered as explanation. I dare say there is absolutely no scriptural basis for this notion that sin opens up the Christian to demon possession.

The Corinthian church was an excellent example. They had it wrong on so many fronts, including sinning and openly condoning outrageous sins etc. The Apostle Paul rebukes and corrects them but never even hints at possible demon possession because of their actions.

If you have any biblical examples of Christians sinning and becoming infested with demons or even being so much as warned of demon possession, please post them here and lets look at them together.

I think I will hold my peace until Joagbaje and 2buff use scriptures to ground their teachings beyond ALL contradictions. We have gone too far in the word of God for us not to prove our points with scriptures. Until I hear better from Joagbaje and 2buff, I think I still stand with petres_007 for now.

2buff:

This is not about demonic possession. It is about demonic influence in a persons life.

No-one said it is an instant thing.
But grace, like anything when abused, could become limited, allowing certain things into a persons life.
The result of which serve as a wake-up call to the person in question to snap up and be serious. This is simply God correcting his children. Read your bible.
Better to go through a situation that would make you get serious than to let you "cruise" your way down to hell un-pertubed.
Unless of course you're one of those who think professed christians, no matter how much unrepented evil they commit, never go to hell.

I think many things being referred to as "demonic influence" is works of the flesh. Everything is not demons. I still want you to prove with scriptures that a spirit filled can be influenced by demons due to sin. Give us examples in the NT.

Goshen360:

I think many things being referred to as "demonic influence" is works of the flesh. Everything is not demons. I still want you to prove with scriptures that a spirit filled can be influenced by demons due to sin. Give us examples in the NT.

Do you agree that a disease is a demonic affliction?

Goshen360:

I think many things being referred to as "demonic influence" is works of the flesh. Everything is not demons. I still want you to prove with scriptures that a spirit filled can be influenced by demons due to sin. Give us examples in the NT.

1st question,within this playing field are we inferring that spirit filled can be influenced by demons means exactly or nearly the same as spirit filled can be influenced by satan/serpent.2nd question are we also inferring that adam and eve were influenced [b]due to sin[/b.3rd question what and who were Ananias and Sapphira?

2buff:

Do you agree that a disease is a demonic affliction?

My brother, don't let us prolong matters such as this. First we asked you to show us from scriptures at least, in the NT where a spirit filled believer can be demon influenced. You turned aside to ask me another question if I believe disease is a demonic affliction? Now, it is not whether I believe or not, the Bible is sufficient for itself. What if I say I believe such and it negates the scriptures? And what if I say I don't believe such and it still negates the scriptures.

Now, will you mind to show us where a spirit filled believer is under a disease in the NT? I believe we should be talking scriptures here and not our own idea. If you know of spirit filled believer in the NT that is held down by disease, kindly share with us.

2buff:

Do you agree that a disease is a demonic affliction?

Oh, come on

Are you saying that every disease is a demonic affliction? You didn't qualify your statement o! e.g. Eczema is a skin disease. Is it demonically afflicted too?

This is of course, not saying that demons, with God's permission, aren't capable of such. Just saying you should not make such sweeping statements.

Now my question to all those of you advocating the possibility of Christians being possessed by demons is: do you have any idea who the Holy Spirit is?

I doubt.

danwo:
1st question,within this playing field are we inferring that spirit filled can be influenced by demons means exactly or nearly the same as spirit filled can be influenced by satan/serpent

I don't really get your presentation here. Being influenced and being possessed.....please clarify.

danwo:
2nd question are we also inferring that adam and eve were influenced due to sin

Adam and Eve were not possessed or influenced but tempted.....I believe. (I might be wrong though)

danwo:
3rd question what and who were Ananias and Sapphira?

Ananias and Sapphira ARE NOT BELIEVERS BUT EXAMPLE OF CHURCH GOERS and I can prove it. In Acts of Apostles, when the Bible refers to a believer, such phrase such as "certain disciple called....." is being used to refer to them (Acts 16:1; 9:10; 9:36; 21:16). In the case of Ananias and Sapphira, they were called, "certain man called ....." Acts 5:1

I did ask a simple question and the only person who came close to answering it is petres.

Now If yes, then would you agree that if someone who professes themselves a christian goes around fornicating and catches AIDS has allowed the enemy to influence his/her life or not? Fine he may repent and seek the healing hand of God and be cleansed of it, like many have, but he would have been better off not opening that door to begin with.

If no, you can at least still agree with me that actions have consequences given the previous example. Even an atheist understands this.

If the Holy Spirit really was eminent in a persons life, they would avoid certain careless actions that open all sorts of doors to the wicked one to touch their life. If you break the hedge, the serpent bites. Everything I have said here, if you read well, I also add a bible scripture to it in as plain a manner as possible without the "thines" and "thous" and your spirit would have picked it up if it were interested. If you want to see X chapter Y verse Z, then I don't have the time to go into that with you as we would all then fall to pointless arguments.

I thank God for his grace over my life as I'm not perfect, but I will not follow you to look for ways to (essentially) legalize the abuse of this same grace by looking for scripture verses to play with and twist till it suits the evil intent of implying that the choices a person makes in the day to day do not matter. This is sadly one of the great deceptions running about these days and also a reason why a self-proclaimed christian would allow himself to scam another human being because "well God will forgive me" seems to be the anthem these days. There is no fear of God anymore.