@ Obowunmi: I can't help but laugh at how you choose to understand my viewpoint. I believe Violent has shed more light on my opinion, you should be able to relate with that I hope.

violent:


You can't train everyone on everything.

Part of the basic skills anyone, regardless of status, is expected to bring to a job, is discretion!

It's why company's don't hire 5 year olds in the first place.

Why would i want to hire or even keep someone who needed to be trained on how to respond when a customer asks for directions to the toilet?

Management is a science. You can't become a scientist without appropriate training. Not everyone has access to the same level of exposure, education, elements. So you cannot make any assumptions.

Yes, I know companies, that have trained staff how to tell a client where the bathroom is. Communication is key and if your gateman cannot communicate that he has problems on the job because you are expecting and assuming that he should take initiative. Then that's your way of doing business. I don't recommend.

Not everyone sees "taking initiative" the way you do.

spicy: expecting to receive adequate training from an organization alone is a sign θf laziness! You must take responsibility to give yourself some training, that is why the internet, books and mentors exist!

Common sense isn't common afterall but in realism, even some that went through school don't even practise this point, talk less of a GM.
--

spicy v:
I also want to point to you sir that low level positions are not reserved for people with a lack θf good sense or judgment! Skills that the GM clearly lacked! He also lacked experience, if he at least had adequate experience he sure would not have made such silly and costly mistake!

True. Like you raised earlier, with 'little power, comes 'small small responsibilities'. But, funny enough,. without mistakes, he'd have no experience so perhaps, this incident could be one 'costly mistake' that could contribue to his experience(s).

Question please, do you really consider that GM's decision as a "high level" decision?

No, 'twas just based on instinct. His thought process found it best to consider the request of Mr. Lagbaja as harmless to the rules whilst the other GM thought otherwise; luckily it paid off for Mr. B - but like I pointed out earlier, this is between rules/principles. The rules tell you what you should always comply with while the principles suggest what ought to be done in certain circumstances.

obowunmi:

I won't get into a back and forth banter.

This is an incomplete case study and very bad example. Why doesn't a bank send or hire a gateman to close accounts and find clients? Why isn't a gateman president of LEAP Africa? Why do they need to hire bankers, or sales persons and experts to get the job done.
,
Why don't you hire a gateman as a teacher to teach your kids.


Everyone has a specific level or skillsets, and the gateman's strengths are not in closing accounts and deals. They are part of the customer service process but that is up to the company to train staff appropriately, create protocol and assign tasks. The company has a level of responsibility.


Once again, I won't get into a back and forth. Its getting boring and repetitive.

Nope! It is not getting boring and repetitive! It is simply a debate, a difference in opinions. Like I earlier sited, you have really missed the whole picture. I do not see how the examples you sited on skill sets relates to the requirement θf initiative! True everyone in the workplace has their role clearly defined but the use θf initiative is everyone's role and expecting the low level staff to use some initiative is not giving them some herculean task θf making critical decisions for your business!

Violent, we can agree to disagree that its the company's fault because the company hired the wrong man to do the job.

Let them re-think their interview process and test employees common sense skills.

obowunmi:

Management is a science. You can't become a scientist without appropriate training. Not everyone has access to the same level of exposure, education, elements. So you cannot make any assumptions.

Yes, I know companies, that have trained staff how to tell a client where the bathroom is. Communication is key and if your gateman cannot communicate that he has problems on the job because you are expecting and assuming that he should take initiative. Then that's your way of doing business. I don't recommend.

Not everyone sees "taking initiative" the way you do.

Yes communication is key. But expending valuable resources that are better channeled elsewhere, just so your gateman could learn the things he should have learnt as a child isn't a way to do business either.

Communication is key. The bottom line is important as well, and resources must be managed appropriately.

spicy v:

Nope! It is not getting boring and repetitive! It is simply a debate, a difference in opinions. Like I earlier sited, you have really missed the whole picture. I do not see how the examples you sited on skill sets relates to the requirement θf initiative! True everyone in the workplace has their role clearly defined but the use θf initiative is everyone's role and expecting the low level staff to use some initiative is not giving them some herculean task θf making critical decisions for your business!

Fire everyone that doesn't take initiative. Btw, how do you measure initiative? Give the gateman rigorous tests and exams to pass?

The notion of common sense and initiative in the work place is extremely relative. What you can't measure.....

Fire onm..until all employees share your common sense and initiative skills.

I didn't quote you because I'm on my phone.

Basic discretion, such as...when to say hello...when to say thank you...and yes, even how to treat customers politely, are things an employee shouldn't have to be trained on!


You have to read the book that the CEO of Zappos, Tony Hseih writes on customer service. You will be surprised on what many people don't know about etiquettes and simple professional behavior.

Like I said before, Do NOT assume anything.

obowunmi:

Fire everyone that doesn't take initiative. Btw, how do you measure initiative? Give the gateman rigorous tests and exams to pass?

The notion of common sense and initiative in the work place is extremely relative. What you can't measure.....

Fire onm..until all employees share your common sense and initiative skills.

So much aggression! Relax man, it is merely a debate! On a lighter note, I would start by firing you! Yep! You are sooo FIRED!!!

obowunmi: Violent, we can agree to disagree that its the company's fault because the company hired the wrong man to do the job.

Let them re-think their interview process and test employees common sense skills.

I will disagree with this.


A company hires based on perception that a potential employee may have the skills desired. This is infact only a perception and at this point, they can't vouch for the employability of a potential recruit.

This is why many companies have a grace period of 3-6 months. This period is meant for them to decide whether or not the employee does have the skills as claimed.


I would argue that the fault lies mostly with the employee. Misrepresentation could be counted as fraud in certain jurisdictions. If you are sure that you are unable to do the job, then don't apply for the job or go through the interview process. Unless the company has a CIA operative or uses a lie testing machine, it may be impossible to sift out con masters.

obowunmi: I didn't quote you because I'm on my phone.

Basic discretion, such as...when to say hello...when to say thank you...and yes, even how to treat customers politely, are things an employee shouldn't have to be trained on!


You have to read the book that the CEO of Zappos, Tony Hseih writes on customer service. You will be surprised on what many people don't know about etiquettes and simple professional behavior.

Like I said before, Do NOT assume anything.

I don't argue that everyone is versed on etiquette and simple professional behavior. My argument is that there are occasions when individual's are expected to use their discretion without being told to do so...those who can't are simply a right candidate for lay-offs.

It will probably cost a lot to train individuals on the things they should know already. I wouldn't want to be spending that much if i can find someone to replace them.

I will say this, I own my own company and I have staff members. I am responsible for my company and the culture that I have the power to create.

The brand of the company begins with the gateman or front person, if that person is not well trained, the business owner is in trouble.

I recommend that companies have at least two gateman at the door, well dressed, and polite. They are part of the customer service process...the customer's experience begins with the front staff and if you treat your staff right and have a genuine interest in their personal development, they won't function like a robot whereby they can't make simple decisions.

When a staff member doesn't take initiative, it comes from a culture of fear. Oga said, so I won't ask questions... A culture of fear doesn't make staff take initiative. They become robots.

violent:


I don't argue that everyone is versed on etiquette and simple professional behavior. My argument is that there are occasions when individual's are expected to use their discretion without being told to do so...those who can't are simply a right candidate for lay-offs.

It will probably cost a lot to train individuals on the things they should know already. I wouldn't want to be spending that much if i can find someone to replace them.

Very mean. Very mean. You are not giving anyone room to grow. People need an opportunity and a chance. You can't just fire. Fire. Fire.

My neighbour walks her dog without a leash, she lacks common sense. She should be fired.

obowunmi:

Very mean. Very mean. You are not giving anyone room to grow. People need an opportunity and a chance. You can't just fire. Fire. Fire.

My neighbour walks her dog without a leash, she lacks common sense. She should be fired.

You and i may have different meaning and interpretations of what may be considered mean.

I do believe that employers have a moral obligation to treat their employees well. This includes ensuring they are well compensated and providing them with an environment that allows them to thrive.

To create such an environment, everyone must bring something to the table. An employee is expected to see himself as a vital piece that allows for the smooth running and efficiency of the company. He must be able to make use of his reasonable discretion at all times in situation that calls for him to do so.
As a matter of fact and for the purpose of this argument, making use of reasonable discretion could mean the gateman telling the client "Oh sorry sir, i don't know, but let me ask someone who does".....You shouldn't have to tell an employee to say that!!!!

An employee who does not care to employ his reasonable discretion may mean he doesn't really have the best interest of the employer at heart or he's just really stupi[i]d[/i]....either case, it will be costly to keep such persons on payroll and will ultimately be unfair to deny others who are more capable of doing his job the opportunity.

@ Violent I implore you to save the insightful lectures! Your points will never be understood by Obowunmi!!!

Spicy and violent,
I think you guys are not getting the angle obowunmi is coming from (by the way, he needs to change that his handle )

I think you both have never had the experience of managing staff across different cadres. Low-level people, especially in Nigeria, need to be managed very differently from people who went to school. For so many reasons: security, efficiency, and for them not to screw up your business.

There is also a trust issue with those people. For example drivers: If you fire a driver, chances are the next one will be far worse, and then you have to start from square one. Think of it like this; if your two-year old accidentally smashed the windshield of your very expensive SUV while playing, would you throw the child out of your house? That is something I have personally experienced. I was far more relieved that the child didn't hurt himself!

In this particular case study, the management or owner needs to take personal responsibility. He should never leave it to his low-cadre staff to take initiative. One day, they might take an initiative that will be of great financial consequence to him, something that will be far worse than mere loss of business. Take it from me, I have been there.

The boss man has said it all. Conversation don finish.

And btw, I like my name joor.

@ OB: Conversation actually just began!
@ Ajaleko: Your assumption is wrong! I thought about sending you a copy θf my resume so you know how long I have managed teams, but it ain't necessary as I don't have to proove anything.

I still hold on to the viewpoint that initiative and good sense are essential qualities that staff must have irrespective θf the position they hold reason being that possessing these qualities is not based on how schooled you are but on how much experience and exposure you have! I have come to this conclusion from my experience is deciding who should be hired and from managing people. The most schooled people aren't often those with deep insight, talent they say is never enough!

One θf the basic quality I look out for in a potential employee is the ability to apply good sense/ initiative! It is wrong to assume that low level staff need not have initiative because they are unschooled! Good sense is not learnt in school but through life/work experiences. This is why before hiring staff even the driver, I must have ascertained that your initiative is functional, whilst not expecting that the driver displays the same level θf reasoning with the business manager, but at entry level all staff is aware that we are all responsible for the success θf the business and that is why the driver is also given an orientation training.

If you expect me to always tell you what to do then I should have 50percent θf your salary! From experience I have discovered that people who are too lazy to engage their initiative never make an extra effort to make any impact in their immediate environment because they are set in their mediocrity! No amount θf training will make any difference, it is a self imposed limitation!

You may perceive my leadership style as extreme but then excellence is costly and the majority are unwilling to pay its price!

spicy v: @ OB: Conversation actually just began!
@ Ajaleko: Your assumption is wrong! I thought about sending you a copy θf my resume so you know how long I have managed teams, but it ain't necessary.

I dare you to send your resume

Excellence is costly koo, excellence is costly ni.

If your resume came accross my desk, I definitely will not and never hire you.

Most innovative entrepreneurs today at some point in their lifetime were fired at some point in their career. Spicy, perfection doesn't exist. Its not real.

I'm sure you are one of those peeps at work people don't like to work with.

AjanleKoko:

I dare you to send your resume

Post your email address lol. Pls hide the first recent posts from me, I have been trying to modify and delete them cos θf the repetitions but it ain't werking. Thank you.

Been wondering too. The assumptions made about the officer at that cadre (although not wrong) were too sweeping a generalisation to make especially when you consider a Nigerian context.

We're not all the same; our thought processes differ and no matter how much an ideal society should exist, it'd just remain utopian.

obowunmi:

I'm sure you are one of those peeps at work people don't like to work with.

You should look at her profile pic first, before you conclude

spicy v:

Post your email address lol. Pls hide the first recent posts from me, I have been trying to modify and delete them cos θf the repetitions but it ain't werking. Thank you.

Just send a PM.

obowunmi: Excellence is costly koo, excellence is costly ni.

If your resume came accross my desk, I definitely will not and never hire you.

Most innovative entrepreneurs today at some point in their lifetime were fired at some point in their career. Spicy, perfection doesn't exist. Its not real.

I'm sure you are one of those peeps at work people don't like to work with.

Well before I send my resume to you, I would have conducted my own research on you and concluded that I shouldn't be working for you because your standards are way below! You are definitely right about one thing, shallow and mediocre people cannot cope with my work patterns. The reason is obvious!

AjanleKoko:


You should look at her profile pic first, before you conclude

Sweeet mama jama....

Spicy, you can work for me anytime. Are you single? I like my women sharp.

AjanleKoko:


You should look at her profile pic first, before you conclude

That profile pix was uploaded in 2005. Not that it matters if it was recently posted though. I wouldn't want to respond to you in a manner that you actually deserve because that would mean that I have condescended to your level.

You need to learn how to seperate emotions from arguments! I hope you have the initiative to get that!

spicy v:

Well before I send my resume to you, I would have conducted my own research on you and concluded that I shouldn't be working for you because your standards are way below! You are definitely right about one thing, shallow and mediocre people cannot cope with my work patterns. The reason is obvious!

Madam don't kill urself with work. Let a sweet man take care of u.

spicy v:

That profile pix was uploaded in 2005. Not that it matters if it was recently posted though. I wouldn't want to respond to you in a manner that you actually deserve because that would mean that I have condescended to your level.

You need to learn how to seperate emotions from arguments! I hope you have the initiative to get that!

You know, I had to do a double take on this your post sha.
You sure you don't want to read it again, edit it or something?

@ Ajanlekoko: please read Obowunmi's post as well, thanks.
@ Obowunmi: I won't respond to your posts anymore. I now see how you run daddy's business. You need a lot θf growing up to do son.