@joftech, it seems you did not bother to read the inputs of others in this thread. Before you anchor your faith in the Gospel of Judas, understand that the scholars you're quoting did not draw any conclusions but rather speculated about its true significance. There are questions you should answer before accepting the Judas text as part of your "new truths as they emerge".

(1)  Was Judas the author of the 'Gospel of Judas'?
Gnostic documents have this unmistakable characteristic - ficticious authorship. Even the researchers have not been able to tell us who is the author of the Judas text, other than that its author is anonymous. Other Gnostic documents which I have read that bear no authentic authorship include the Gospel of Thomas, and its supposed author is given in the first lines of the text as "didymos Judas Thomas." Read carefully and you'll find that it was neither written by the disciple Thomas (Mark 3:18) nor Judas Iscariot; more so because even the Gnostics themselves know that Thomas was not the same person as Judas. Galileo Galilei may have been thought in his time to be crazy, but his works were not produced by an anonymous Gnostic writer who knew nothing of him.

(2)  Did the author of the Judas text know Jesus first hand?
It's amazing that the original Judas text dates back to over a century after the other Biblical Gospels were written. From all indications, the anonymous author of the Judas text neither knew Judas, Jesus, nor any of the disciples personally. If I didn't know your great-great grandfather personally, would you trust a document written by my own great-great grandson claiming to have an insider knowledge of him, even though we're both Nigerians living over a century apart?

(3)  How did Judas "exceed" the other Dicsiples?
You'd have to convince yourself that suicide was the best demonstration of Judas' greatness above the other disciples. Jesus was crucified; some of the apostles were martyred; Judas committed suicide - and for this singular act of Judas, he demonstrated his greatness? This question is pertinent; otherwise how else did he fulfill the greatness promised him by Jesus? Being treated as an outcast says nothing about Judas eventually becoming greater than the other disciples.

(4)  Is the Judas text a 'Gospel'?
Does the abrupt ending of the Gospel of Judas not raise your incredulity? The researchers all agree that the Judas text says nothing about the crucifixion nor the resurrection of Christ. What should we make of the purported quote: "For you will sacrifice the man that clothes me" and yet the Judas of the text would say nothing about the sacrifice?

This is why I earlier said that, although I do not question the fact that the document was a genuine find/discovery, it has no substance to the original event of the betrayal of Jesus by Judas. So many questions left unanswered by Gnosticism - and you'd have to choose between Gnosticism and Christianity.

Kimba,i will overlook your vituperations because i can see that you're one of the numerous folks who walk in darkness of ignorance and you need some enlightenment.
Your reaction is expected,as it is symptomatic of the average religious person.You're on the defensive,and you will remain there,as more buried truths about the mainstream christianity continue seeping out.

The Bible even said in the Last days, Anti-Christs will arise.

The socalled last days have been around for over two millenia now,kimba.Jesus christ was born into the palestine that was screaming of end time and the coming of the messiah,and the impending war of the armaggedon(ofcourse it was called differently in those days).So the proclamations of "the last days" predated the new testament scriptures.
[quote=kimba]It would have been better if you took time to read previous posts on Nairaland about religious related topics, what people said, their opinions etc.[/quote]Do i need to do that?It is not a fault of mine if you can't accept new findings about christianity.

You didnt actually need the msnbc comment to start trash-talking

No,i don't,and i am not talking trash.Just because my views do not rhyme with yours does not mean that they are trash.Learn to be tolerant and - more importantly - openminded.

Mr. Jagunlabi
(1) Not everything that you see on the internet is 100% truth, allright?

Oh,really?So how do you know what is 100% truth?Are you a theology scholar?Do you decipher what is true from what is false through the learned eye of a scholar,or just from the prejudiced misconception of an ordinary christian?

]Learn to see beyond the news, see those writing it, see the financiers. I believe you wont be interested to see beyond the news, doing your own research as you are a ready proponent of such a wrong religious view

Do you really see evidences of foul play,or you're just running scared that the comfortable religious boat that you have been riding is about to get rocked with the real truths that have been bubbling under the surface for a long time now?You sound really scared,but you need not be.The real Jesus must be made known to mankind,and the lies must be brought to a halt.

Fine, Jagunlabi, we Africans are not in a position to verify debate anything, neither do we have the brainpower or resource to verify anything. Ok, so what? have you, on your own personal effort or anyone in nairaland ever spent 12 consecutive months verifying the identity of your own parents. who told you that what they looked at when you finally learnt to add 1+1 was what they looked at when you were born? what scientific steps have you taken to verify your own personal birth-certificate? is it really genuine? you should have had someone extra-ordinary to stand beside your mother to verify that you were the one that really popped out from her belly and you were not mis-placed or mis-appropriated in the Hospital to the wrong parent. All the scientific or art knowledge you know today, how many have you personally verified. How many of us here have actually disagreed with out math teacher when we found out that 1+1 wasnt equal to 2. And did you disagree with anyone when you left primary school that you wanted to change your name because you just found out that was not your original name? and then you went to high-school and university and believed all the science and art bull-rubbish that all the professors told you? and for those of us who graduated at the top of our class, did we get an award for believing a whole lot of errors/unverified theories we were told about, and which we had to "understand", memorize and recollect during exams for 4 or 5 long years, or was the award because we found out a whole lots of truths/course we took in college that our professors did not find out in their time as students, and for which they recognized that Yes, we were smart? please tell me,

and for those who don't believe in Jesus, when did that start? when you were one year old? of when you were 6 or 7 and reasoning began descending on you?

whatever you believe in today: is it a personal revelation/effort on your part. Let the Catholics tell me they had a personal revelation and their belief is different from others, let the Muslims tell me that there was a supernatural revelation before you decided for Allah,  If i say im an aethist, i and a whole lot of other people are aethists, and what is the basis of our belief for us calling ourselves african aethists since we as Africans never heard any way of verifying anything(religion, science, art, facts, figures, technology, nothing), nothing about what we were told(that there is a God, or there is no God), or that there is one who doesnt give a damn about whats happening? Let someone tell us about his own personal research you have done, and what results you have gotten that are different from what others have or had gotten.

So Mr. jagunlabi, if your conclusion that African Christians are wrong in their belief in Jesus, since as you said they had no way of verifying the history of their faith, then the same is true for you that you(and all those who despise Christianity) are wrong in your disbelief in Jesus because you have not, as a person verified the root cause and history of what faith or faithlessness holds sway in your heart and mind. Its just two sides of the same coin, brother, an application of some logic.

Let me give you another problem to solve: do you know Mr Jagunlabi, that your two ears are not on the same level on your head? One is higher than the other. Take a mirror    , and a tape-rule and a measure and measure the distance from center of your head downwards to your left and right ear. You might not notice the difference, but the difference is there. Now, what have you done as regards this discrepancy. But its truth. Perhaps, you might just be knowing for the first time.


Man ceases to exist when he ceases to belief in a supernatural being. There is an element of God in every human heart and soul, whether that person likes it or not. Its either we resist it, or accept Him. The greater truth is that the host of Heaven always back up the Bible. The Bible was one of the first references on science and medicine.

I'm not here preaching Christianity, neither am I despising it, im just trying to make you see the import of having a balanced view on things. And Mr Jagunlabi, what personal effort have you made to verify the genuineness of this Nairaland forum, and all the technology the internet offers us, I can conclude that yes, these things were imposed on you.

Naturally, common sense should make us to see the light, but its a pity tha what each of us is born with that is so common, is no more common.

From this long epistle i am now really sure that you really need to be enlightened,but i am not going to be the one doing it.Events that will do that will continue to unfold,so tighten your seat belt.
BTW,nairaland is a terrific place for guys like me,whether you like it or not.Haha!

I'm sorry to notice that your ignorance is telling on you. What you call "buried truths" is laughable because you'd only make sense if you're reading your own biases with an open mind. If what you're calling "truth" is a document with anonymous authorship, I need not say anymore - it's obvious you're neither seeking truth nor being rational. If the devil produced a document without an identifiable authorship, you'd most certainly be obliged to call it 'truth' as long as it helps your lollygag campaign against authentic Christianity. Even honest skeptics don't refer to anonymous and fictitious tales as 'truth', and this is why you really need to re-examine your heart in light of your own conclusions.

"Buried truth" - and how much of it do you believe or practise? Christianity is all about faith in God through Jesus Christ; Gnosticism is the very opposite - faith in secret knowledge as opposed to divine truth. Now if the Gnostic Gospel of Judas (which was written neither by Judas nor a disciple) is part of your 'buried truth', how much of it do you believe or practise for yourself? This is why the one thing that amazes me is that those who push the agenda of a "contrarian view" of Jesus neither believe in nor practise their own agenda. Imagine calling something you cannot trust by yourself "truth".

@jagunlabi, do you have a more practical joke than the one you borrowed from msnbc.com?

No point in dragging this,because it will lead nowhere.Time will tell who is more ignorant.Just stay tuned,and be well.

welborn:

I'm sorry to notice that your ignorance is telling on you. What you call "buried truths" is laughable because you'd only make sense if you're reading your own biases with an open mind. If what you're calling "truth" is a document with anonymous authorship, I need not say anymore - it's obvious you're neither seeking truth nor being rational. If the devil produced a document without an identifiable authorship, you'd most certainly be obliged to call it 'truth' as long as it helps your lollygag campaign against authentic Christianity. Even honest skeptics don't refer to anonymous and fictitious tales as 'truth', and this is why you really need to re-examine your heart in light of your own conclusions.

"Buried truth" - and how much of it do [b]you believe or practise? Christianity is all about faith in God through Jesus Christ; Gnosticism is the very opposite - faith in secret knowledge as opposed to divine truth. Now if the Gnostic Gospel of Judas (which was written neither by Judas nor a disciple) is part of your 'buried truth', how much of it do you believe or practise for yourself? This is why the one thing that amazes me is that those who push the agenda of a "contrarian view" of Jesus neither believe in nor practise their own agenda. Imagine calling something you cannot trust by yourself "truth". [/b]

@jagunlabi, do you have a more practical joke than the one you borrowed from msnbc.com?

Be my guest. I'm always tuned to Jesus - and time will tell when He comes back!

welborn:

Be my guest. I'm always tuned to Jesus - and time will tell when He comes back!

Are you,really?Do you know who he really was?I wonder.

jagunlabi, grow up and be mature about this. You really are sporting for a petty fight aint you? But no thanks. Is there any point in trying to be so childish about this matter? If you believe on a Jesus of a 'contrarian view', good for you; then go ahead and post your trash on the thread from wherever you can borrow them on the web - there's nothing new, and I most certainly have read them all and can help you get some more if you happen to run out of your bag of tricks. I'm really surprised you're referring to Jesus as a "he"; didn't one of your Gnostic 'buried truth' refer to Jesus as a "she" and called his name "Judith"? http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44563 .

You obviously know nothing about the Biblical Christ, so tell me about your 'contrarian Jesus' and your relationship to him/she/it - it doesn't matter if he/she/it is the direct twin brother (or sister/something) to Lucifer who masquerades as an angel of light.

I am not spoiling for any fight,but just discussing.Maybe the discuss is getting a little overboard but that is the nature of any debate on religion or theology.That we are even discussing religious themes from fairly different viewpoints is a wonder.I'm out.Be well.

welborn:

jagunlabi, grow up and be mature about this. You really are sporting for a petty fight aint you? But no thanks. Is there any point in trying to be so childish about this matter? If you believe on a Jesus of a 'contrarian view', good for you; then go ahead and post your trash on the thread from wherever you can borrow them on the web - there's nothing new, and I most certainly have read them all and can help you get some more if you happen to run out of your bag of tricks. I'm really surprised you're referring to Jesus as a "he"; didn't one of your Gnostic 'buried truth' refer to Jesus as a "she" and called his name "Judith"? http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44563 .

You obviously know nothing about the Biblical Christ, so tell me about your 'contrarian Jesus' and your relationship to him/she/it - it doesn't matter if he/she/it is the direct twin brother (or sister/something) to Lucifer who masquerades as an angel of light.

Great. No sleepless nights.

Tell me which one of the authors Mark, Matthew Luke and John knew Jesus firsthand? When were their gospels written? If you really read those gospels, they are not consistent with one another. How can this be when they are all supposed to be referring to one man? You will find many of Christians tend to follow the teachings of Paul rather than the man known as 'Jesus' a common Greek name may i hasten to add.

So now this gospel according to Judas has come out, what is all the fuss about the inconsistencies?

Hot_CoCo:

Tell me which one of the authors Mark, Matthew Luke and John knew Jesus firsthand?

Hot_Coco, seems you haven't read the NT yourself. Until then, you'd little realise that the answer is staring you in the face.

@welborn, tell me, do you belief in traditional African religion?

I doubt that you will say yes. We are conditioned to belief what we are taught when we are born, and we most likely held to it as the truth and doubt anything that's at variance with it.

It's very very possible for someone to repress anybody's view once you are an authority figure.

Read about Galileo Galilei here and see what the Pope did during his time.

i know iv read my BIBLE many times and it says Judas betrayed so i beleive Judas betrayed him

@ Welborn: There is speculation on the identity of John. That is why i asked the question who knew 'Jesus' firsthand.

I am uncomfortable with the fact that the bible was put together by a Roman leader who worshiped Mithra, a pagan deity from the old religion which existed before Christianity.

It is interesting how far Christianity has taken Africans. Note from the time Africans picked up the bible given to them by the Europeans who then turned round and enslaved them to now, African people have been in a state of suffering and still call out to a name that they don't even know the origin of. Yet the Europeans have deserted Christianity in droves and they are enjoying life more than us. Could it be that we have been conditioned to empower their deity, which has been created in their image, by doing the worshiping on their behalf.

joftech:

@welborn, tell me, do you belief in traditional African religion?

I doubt that you will say yes. We are conditioned to belief what we are taught when we are born, and we most likely held to it as the truth and doubt anything that's at variance with it.

It's very very possible for someone to repress anybody's view once you are an authority figure.

Read about Galileo Galilei here and see what the Pope did during his time.

@joftech, sorry to say, but you probably didn't read me well.

To answer your question, I'll offer you another - does traditional African religion (TAR) save my soul from sin or make me a child of God? I'll guarantee you one thing that TAR can't give anyone: it lacks the power of the Holy Spirit.

Indeed, the Gospel of Judas is at variance with the Bible - and that gives you sleepless nights? If it is the 'truth' for you and is not at variance with TAR, by all means don't just talk it - believe it and live it! Don't ask me to put my faith in something you yourself neither know, believe in nor practice. . . that's what the Bible calls hypocrisy. You still have yet to show me why you'd like me to believe in an anonymous document before you lump me off as "an authority figure" who tries to "repress anybody's view" - need I say that's an awkward inference on your part.

The thing that amazes me is, guys like you don't have a rational basis for pushing the Judas text in preference to the NT. I've outlined at least four reasons why the Gospel of Judas is weak in substance by any consideration, which are here reposted in question type in case you missed them:

    (a) Was Judas the author of the 'Gospel of Judas'?

    (b) Did the author of the Judas text know Jesus firsthand?

    (c) How did Judas "exceed" the other Dicsiples?

    (d) Is the Judas text a 'Gospel'?

You certainly would not expect me to play the fool by anchoring my faith in something you have no answers to. In fair exchange, tell me, do you believe in Jesus Christ? If you want to be a TAR pastor/bishop on this Forum, where in my posts did I sound like an 'authority figure' repressing your views on that?

Hot_Coco,

I chose to be reserved with some part of my first rejoinder to yours, guessing if this was what you'd come back with - and indeed, it's no different from what many people who have partial views have tried to noise abroad.

Hot_CoCo:

@ Welborn: There is speculation on the identity of John. That is why i asked the question who knew 'Jesus' firsthand.

The speculations about identities are not only about John - the same sources you're (or might be) referring to also speculate about the identity of John's writings (the Revelations a prime example), as well as the identity of every other disciple/apostle. Have you asked yourself why they do this? In the first place, they have no concrete answers at the end of the day about who is who; and they want to prepare grounds for giving credence to the Gnostic Gospels by discrediting the authenticity of the NT and parts of the OT. An example of such discrediting of the NT Gospels is the campaign for the Gnostic counterparts such as the Gospel of Thomas, which has as its author "didymos Judas Thomas." Those who strenuously accept the Thomas' text have not applied the same vigour in speculating about its author. Does that surprise you? If you want to peruse a list of the apostles, check out Matt. 10:1-5 and Mark 3:14-19. The Gospel of Thomas was written by yet another anonymous Gnostic who was neither Thomas nor Judas.

Matthew was a personal follower of Jesus. Luke was a physician who was not among the twelve that personally followed Jesus, but whose Gospel was sourced from eyewitness accounts (Luke 1:2-3). Mark was supposedly a scribe for the apostle Peter in producing the Gospel of Mark. He is usually called 'John Mark' (Acts 12:25), but should not be confused with the apostle John (John 21:24).

Hot_CoCo:

I am uncomfortable with the fact that the bible was put together by a Roman leader who worshiped Mithra, a pagan deity from the old religion which existed before Christianity.

Rest your heart my dear. I've never been troubled by that, though I understand your concern. I'll not offer an excuse through the back door, but I can confidently say two things here in that regard:

(a) it's not who was responsible for putting the Bible together, but rather what the Bible says, that is of utmost importance to me. If that kind of prejudice continually feeds our minds, how many things would we lose? It even gets worse: who was Rahab (Matt.1:5)? You and I know that she was a 'scarlet woman'* (Josh. 2:1) and yet she happens to be one of the ancestors of the sinless Saviour. Who among the ancestors of Jesus was sinless? No one. Yet, would we reject Him just because __? No. So, just because imperfect men put together the perfect Word does not give me a migraine - my faith is rather in what the Bible teaches, not in who preserved or arranged it.

(b) God works in mysterious ways, using those who are despised to work about things honourable (I Cor. 1:27-29). The Son of God was born to a poor family, lived and ministered among poor and sick folks, and in all that God was glorified. I'm reminded of how God could even put prophecy in the mouth of those who persecuted Jesus (see John 11:49-50). Caiaphas gave the 'prophecy' that one man was to die for the nation, and it was recorded that he didn't speak ordinarily by himself in that declaration - yet the prophecy was put in his mouth simply for his occupying the high priestly office at that time.

Again, I don't question an event or document simply because of the bias that a pagan did this or that. In the same way, I'm not perturbed about the Gospel of Judas, or Gospel of Thomas, or any other discoveries: my one quest is 'what does it represent - truth or misrepresentation?'

Hot_CoCo:

It is interesting how far Christianity has taken Africans. Note from the time Africans picked up the bible given to them by the Europeans who then turned round and enslaved them to now, African people have been in a state of suffering and still call out to a name that they don't even know the origin of. Yet the Europeans have deserted Christianity in droves and they are enjoying life more than us. Could it be that we have been conditioned to empower their deity, which has been created in their image, by doing the worshiping on their behalf.

I beg to disagree with you on this one, especially as you mixing up issues here. Apart from news and articles on European life, I have travelled extensively and witnessed things for myself that don't square with your summation. "Enjoying life" is a relative phrase and depends on what you mean by that. However, life in America, Canada, Sweden, Finland, the UK, Denmark, Germany, Ireland (all places I've visited) may be "enjoyable" economically in contrast to the African experience; but the moral decline is colossal. How many Nigerians have I met in the USA (Georgia and New York) who have told me that after ten years or more, they are heading home to Nigeria for the simple reason that they can't stand the moral declension in the West. The authenticity of the Christian faith does not stand or fall on the notion that 'Europeans gave it to Africans' or that any group is abandoning the Christian faith in droves. If the truth of God's Word has been proven time and again in my life, it would be foolhardy for me to abandon it with the rest of the 'drove'.





* 'scarlet woman' is the euphemism for 'prostitute/harlot' in the part of the world where I live.

The bible even said it that when the end time is near false prophet will rise and they would be deceiving people in God's name. If i were you and i know what i am doing , i think no body can ever deceived me cos i read the bible. You can even read Jere. 23:23 my bro.[color=#006600][/color]

I am not interested in this and other lies that will come up because I've been forewarned by my BIBLE about them all. What gladdens my heart is that Jesus died, rose again and is seated at the right hand of the father just like he said. Nothing anyone says or does will change my mind. I know JESUS IS LORD AND THERE'S NO CONTROVERSY ABOUT THAT!

@ Kimba & Welborn
I'm proud of you brothers.    

The endtimes have been around for more than 2000 years,karyurdey.Jesus christ was born into them,and false prophets and messiahs have been around even before Jesus was born.And here is the shocker,Jesus himself,during his lifetime,was accused of being a false prophet.So who knows who is genuine?Abeg,leave the endtimes out of this discuss.
Now,here is another shocker,the lies that you think you are running away from,might just be the very christian doctrine that you have been raised with,and you believe firmly in.The very foundation of your christian faith.It is widely agreed upon today that what Jesus preached during his ministry and what the christian doctrine has become are worlds apart.So those lies might just be the very ones that you are emersed in all the way to the top of your head,today and right now!It is a very intriguing situation,anyway.We are all staying tuned.

karyurdey:

The bible even said it that when the end time is near false prophet will rise and they would be deceiving people in God's name. If i were you and i know what i am doing , i think no body can ever deceived me because i read the bible. You can even read Jere. 23:23 my bro.[color=#006600][/color]

jagunlabi when you're tired you will stop.

I doubt it.I enjoy a good discuss.Enjoying a good discuss is not your forte,i presume.It takes special qualities to discuss religious issues at length without getting overly sensitive.

nightrider:

jagunlabi when you're tired you will stop.

like i said,jagunlabi when you're tired you will stop. you're not the first to attack christianity, neither wil you be the last don't kill yourself. the gates of hell can never prevail against the church. lenin, hitler, many have tried and have found out that the are nothing but ignorant mortals who think to highly of their measly intellectual capabilities.

there was a man in france(name skipped my mind) he fought the church, abused it as blasphemy and a fake religion. He said he'll spend his last dime to see the end of christianity. He died miserably and his mansion became the world's first printing press for bibles.

benny hinn stood on lenin's grave in russia to preach the gospel.

you and your miserly arguments my dear friend are nothing compared to the vast strength of My CHRIST.

You will believe in Jesus. either in this lifetime or the day your spirit leaves your body and you see him face to face. the former rather than the latter is what i prefer.

@Jagunlabi
who ever betrayed Jesus (or not) may seem to be a big issue until you consider the other side of the same coin, which is that, Jesus actually died on the behalf of all men (including you).

What have you done with that death?
Have you benefited from the great sacrifice that he made?
Is your heart cleansed and purified by him?
Are you God's son?

Think about these things, your life here and in eternity is at stake.

Why are you preaching to me,now?This is a forum and not a church.now.State you own opinion on the issue.I doneed the preaching.I get enough of that during services.

owo:

@Jagunlabi
who ever betrayed Jesus (or not) may seem to be a big issue until you consider the other side of the same coin, which is that, Jesus actually died on the behalf of all men (including you).

What have you done with that death?
Have you benefited from the great sacrifice that he made?
Is your heart cleansed and purified by him?
Are you God's son?

Think about these things, your life here and in eternity is at stake.

My brother, a lot of opinions have been stated already. He who has an ear let him hear.

However, the ear may need some touch by the MASTER who once touched a blind man and he saw at that very instant. At another time, a woman with an issue of blood touched him and her bleeding cease, instantly.

Without the touch of the master, it is difficult to comprehend the reality of His love, even for Judas.
Have you had this touch? Has he circumcised your heart?

Think about this most important and necessary touch.

@jagunlabi,

o boy, on whose side are you. are you on the side of Jesus or Judas?

Why are you preaching to me,now?This is a forum and not a church.now.State you own opinion on the issue.I doneed the preaching.I get enough of that during services.

Quote from: owo on Today at 02:56:08 PM
@Jagunlabi
who ever betrayed Jesus (or not) may seem to be a big issue until you consider the other side of the same coin, which is that, Jesus actually died on the behalf of all men (including you).

What have you done with that death?
Have you benefited from the great sacrifice that he made?
Is your heart cleansed and purified by him?
Are you God's son?

Think about these things, your life here and in eternity is at stake.

Please, jagunlabi, which services are you talking about? is it a Bible-believing Christian Church setting?
You sort of confuse me, my brother.

You dont want "owo" to preach to you all-those-things-you-usually-hear-during-services and yet you come to Nairaland introducing the gospel of Judas, or maybe you meant that you were attending some judas-gospel-related services and yet, they talk about Christ?

Pls explain yourself.

Whoa!! u guys sure know ur stuff!!! see as they already stated stuff and claim like this will always be found. it's up to you to stay firm in wat you believe in.
the other day on tv they did a show on how this guy came accross stuff to make him believe jesus got a human/earthly father. i mean common who believes these stuff? and for someone to have noting better to do than to go snooping and digging for stuff to discredit the bible is really sad.

on a more serious note:

@joftech,

At times what you know may not be the truth, just accept new truths as they emerge.

Sorry brother, if you are the kind of person that accepts truth as they emerge, you are on a wrong track.

My reason why i stand where Jesus stands is because ive proved Him to be true. I'm talking "experiential", not just because someone told me.
God is my father,
Jesus is my brother
and the blessed Holy-Spirit is my guide,
the devil aint no relation,
because im a new creation
and a member of the family of the Lord!!
thats my song bro, 24/7

Ok? so maybe you could go ahead and experience Judas first, then come tell us the testimony of how Judas saved your soul, after he betrayed Jesus Christ, right.

See me here, its plain logic, If Judas played the valuable role that was described in the article for which you are a proponent, then you are telling me that Judas played a valuable role in the salvation of man. Isnt that awfully wrong?. The Bible prophesied that a man will betray Jesus. Judas's name wasnt specifically mentioned in any of the Prophesies, meaning, it could have been any man. It wasnt also mentioned in any of the prophecies that Jesus was going to pick-out the man to betray him.
Remember, it could have been any man. It could have been Peter, James, John or someone else, extra-close to Jesus if they had surrendered their heart to evil, if they had lusted after money or allowed greed to overcome their lives. The fact is, it could have been any man, and it just happened to be Judas,

If you believe in your msnbc article, saying that Jesus called Judas aside, got him interested in a death mission, gave him a Jesus only assignment(because God the Father and the Holy spirit were not in agreement, as per your article), then you are saying that all the prophets that prophesied that Jesus would be betrayed 'by someone' didnt actually get the picture right. Maybe they were liers? maybe the prophecies were not true? that Judas 'helped Jesus to die?'If those prophets did not get the prophecy regarding Jesus to be true, then we can't believe all their other prophecies then. It just means that you don't even believe in the creation - in summary that the Bible is not true. This is all you are saying?

Okay Jagunlabi heres the deal: tell me the truth- Leave the msnbc and their manuscript aside, leave the faceless author aside, leave the scholars aside, leave Judas aside, he is dead anyway(but Jesus is alive) , but please, tell me the truth, the truth that you can say you have personally proved.

If you have nothing you have proved to be true and you believe in, nothing to be your driving passion, O Boy, you aint living yet!!Whether Jesus, Satan, whoever: star, moon, stone, please tell me.

@jagunlabi, and the Judas crew (sorry, i couldnt find a better adjective)
Can you please show me a person who was righttfully named Judas?
Can you change your name to Judas, i can help you with a birth-certificate.
Why do people despise his name if Judas did something right. ?
How many times were you, or anyone encouraged to be like Judas, ? At least Bill gates has people named after him. People even bear the name Jesus, how many Judas purposeful people are there?

@jagunlabi, some peeps say http://www.thegodmovie.com/
dont you have a problem with them, at least you believe that Jesus existed but that Judas didnt actually betray Him.

Peace Bro, nothing personal, just wanting to tell you the truth!!!!

@jagunlabi

because i can see that you're one of the numerous folks who walk in darkness of ignorance and you need some enlightenment. Your reaction is expected,as it is symptomatic of the average religious person.You're on the defensive,and you will remain there,as more buried truths about the mainstream christianity continue seeping out.

Thank you sir. I prefer to be ignorant and be where Jesus is than to have all the knowledge i need, believing truths that emerge from the blues and miss-out at the end.

Do i need to do that?It is not a fault of mine if you can't accept new findings about christianity.

which new findings? that Judas did not Betray Jesus
where did the new findings emerge? @jagunlabi@nairaland <- msnbc <- some scholars  
how sure are you its the truth? since some scholars said on msnbc that they found a manuscript written by a questionable scholar, and passed down to a questionable scholar, etc
Yes, one mans meat is another mans poison, but my brother, this meat you are holding on to and about to eat is a sure poison for your soul. Reason- no man has benefitted by eating such meat.
There are a whole lot of people, (and I have too many testimonies and examples that Nairaland cannot handle) that have benefitted from the meat ive eaten and which has been keeping me fat and strong - Jesus!!!

Are you a theology scholar?Do you decipher what is true from what is false through the learned eye of a scholar,or just from the prejudiced misconception of an ordinary christian?

Nope, im not a theological scholar. I just read my Bible and Jesus promise came true, that the Holy Spirit will guide me into all truth. A theology scholar without Jesus is nothing but a scholar, not a Child of God.

Do you really see evidences of foul play,or you're just running scared that the comfortable religious boat that you have been riding is about to get rocked with the real truths that have been bubbling under the surface for a long time now?You sound really scared,but you need not be.The real Jesus must be made known to mankind,and the lies must be brought to a halt.

- Jagunlabi, who told you there is a truth in the news you read online? I wonder how people accept things at face-value. Under which surface have they been bubbling.

Yes, all the lies must be brought to a halt. The real Jesus REVEALED Himself thousands of years ago, HAS BEEN REVEALING HIMSELF since then to those who have cared to listen, and WILL STILL REVEAL HIMSELF to any God-searching soul. Yes, im riding with Jesus in His boat. I Pray He reveals Himself to you!!

Events that will do that will continue to unfold,so tighten your seat belt

Yes, even the Bible tells us that many events will still unfold, so my seatbelt is tightened and im not ready to be rocked, because i stand firm on Jesus the rock.

@damygirl

on tv they did a show on how this guy came accross stuff to make him believe jesus got a human/earthly father

not only you, I once read a book about a group of people who believe they are the descendants of Jesus, and they have a complete history, who his wife was, etc, his son, his grandson etc.,

I heard about this on friday. Yes, in the latter days, many shall come to decieve. But as it has been noted in the posts, what if we are all living one big deceit?

Isn't it true that before the Bible was standardized, that it was basically subject to whomever's interpretation? Haven't other aspects of the bible (like Jesus being a white man, Jesus being born on 25th december, da vinci code, etc) been proven wrong in recent times? As much as I am not saying that you should question your faith, you do have to wonder whether what oyibo has been telling us for years is true. Na so dem take control the world abi?

As a christian, as someone said here, I will stand on the rock. I however, will read other stuff and make the decision for myself. If I choose to consider the bible alone, how then can I arm myself against the "decievers"?

Finally, on my way to work this morning, these thoughts crossed my mind - Why did this news crop up during easter? Why don't we hear of other documents cropping up in other religions? It always seems like pple are trying their hardest to rubbish christianity.

I do know the answer to the first question though - In america, it's all about ratings, about the evil dollar. Whatever glues our eyes to the tube so as to milk more money out of advertising companies is the name of the game =)

, and thatz my 2 cents

i a family friend, she was born SS(sickle cell anemia) her crisis was always so serious. she went to the redeemed christian church of God camp for their Holy Ghost night. went she went to see her doctor later a blood test revealed her as AA, she hasn't been in the hospital since then.

try telling her that God doesn't exist

nightrider:

try telling her that God doesn't exist

Thank God for that testimony. But this isn't really about atheism - questions of whether or not God exists. Some gentlemen may not be denying the existence of God, but they are trying to push the idea that the NT is a fraud, Christianity as we know it today is a big hoax, the Gospel of Judas is the 'emerging truth' (though they neither believe in it themselves or know what it contains), etc., etc.

This one was a real crack - I haven't stopped laughing for hours -

jagunlabi:

Why are you preaching to me, now? This is a forum and not a church.now.State you own opinion on the issue.I doneed the preaching.I get enough of that during services.

As kimba noted, which "service" be that? Na babalawo be d minister or who? Wetin una dey read for worship. . . or service - Judas, abi? Ok, I take it back - I don't mean to be out of sync with anyone, but I'm still rolling on my sides.

Perhaps later, I'll post one of those "challenges" a liberal Christian who believes the Judas text sent me. Relax, it won't make you lose sleep tonight