Are these really Jesus' words?

1.

Matthew 10:23 - When giving instructions to his apostles as to just how they are to go about spreading his message Jesus says,." . . . for truly I say unto you, you shall not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes."


They have since perished but son of man hasnt come


2.
Matthew 16:28 - Jesus says to his disciples, "There are some of those standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

They have all tasted death without the sign of son of man.


3.
Matthew 24:33-34 - " . . . when you shall see all these things, know that it (the 2nd coming) is near, even at the door. This generation shall not pass till these things be fulfilled." He was obviously referring to the contemporary generation.

The generation has passed without the fulfilment of his sayings.


4.
Matthew 26:64 - When brought before Caiaphas, the Chief Priest, Jesus said to him, "I tell you, hereafter you shall see the Son of Man . . . coming on the clouds of heaven."


According to this the second coming was to happen during Caiaphas' lifetime but nothing of such happened.


5.
Mark 9:1 - Jesus said to the people and to his disciples, ”Verily I say unto you, that there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.


They have all perished with no sign of son of man.



6.

Luke 21:27-28 -Jesus said to the congregation, “And then shall they see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.”


Still they have all perished with no sign of him .


7.
Luke 21:32 - Jesus said, again to the congregation, “This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.”


But the generation has passed without any fulfilment.


8.
John 18:20 - When being questioned by the high priest, Jesus answered, "I spake openly to the world; I have ever taught in the synagogues and in the temple, and in secret have I said nothing." Here he told two lies. For example, the Sermon on the Mount, perhaps his most famous sermon was delivered neither in a synagogue nor in the temple but on a mountain top (Matthew 5:1.)
In Matthew 16:20 he warns his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah. In other words, Keep it a secret.


9.
Revelation 22:7, 12, 20 - Jesus says, "Behold, I come quickly."

Almost two thousand years have passed, all those who knew him are long dead, yet Jesus’ promise of a quick return remains unfulfilled.


Deuteronomy 13:1-5 if an aspiring prophet's words do not come to pass, and if he seeks to turn people from the true God and to another, namely himself, and claims to be equal with God, then he is a false prophet and should be put to death. Therefore, in light of the above didnt Jesus deserve the death sentence with regards to unfulfilled prophecies?

Lets see if the sayings are really that of Jesus.

Thanks

@pilgrim

Over to you

@ Poster:

Time is wisdom.
The word of God lives for ever
I hope you will get this gist if you are truely wise

@dafidizone

Insert Quote
@ Poster:

Time is wisdom.
The word of God lives for ever
I hope you will get this gist if you are truely wise

I doubt if you will ever answer to those false unfulfilled prophecies attributed to Jesus. That goes a long way to show that your BIBLE is corrupt. Most of the sayings attributed to Jesus are not his.

@pilgrim.1

Your attention is needed here

babs787:
Here he told two lies.

You do not have to call Jesus the Christ a liar. . .

babs787:

@pilgrim.1

Your attention is needed here

. . .Just because you need someones attention on a topic. . .

@ajadrage



I raised the thread and posed those questions in order to let people, particularly bible thumpers know that 82% of sayings attributed to Jesus are not his.

Too bad if you had misunderstood me

babs787:

@ajadrage



I raised the thread and posed those questions in order to let people, particularly bible thumpers know that 82% of sayings attributed to Jesus are not his.

A whole 82%, could you please tell where you have your facts from, and what various translations of the bible you have this grouse with

ajadrage:

You do not have to call Jesus the Christ a liar. . .
. . .Just because you need someones attention on a topic. . .

That was simply why I left him for the meantime to reflect on his statements. When he has sorted himself out from the Qur'an as to where 'Allah' refers to Jesus the Christ as the same thing he has alleged, I am waiting to see the reactions other Muslims (who hypocritically have had nothing to say so far on that).

@ajadrage

A whole 82%, could you please tell where you have your facts from, and what various translations of the bible you have this grouse with

We will know if really 82% are really his when you provide solution to those quesyions raised.

babs787:

@ajadrage

We will know if really 82% are really his when you provide solution to those quesyions raised.

What "questions" raised? I am waiting for your claim of 82%. This is how you make assertions and then fail to provide simple answers for your theories. LYING for 'Allah' has never blessed anybody. . . not even when those lies puch you to refer to Jesus the Christ as telling "two lies". Where did 'Allah' ever refer to Jesus as LYING?

are those words not a part of the injeel allah claimed to have revealed?

blabs787, i will give u a few more hrs before i respond to ur drivel dressed up as "questions".

@davidylan,

davidylan:

are those words not a part of the injeel allah claimed to have revealed?

The easiest thing for a Muslim propagandist to do is DENY them - that is so easy to do. But to show us where Allah's Injil is, that one is the onerous task that never materializes with any answers.

davidylan:

blabs787, i will give u a few more hrs before i respond to your drivel dressed up as "questions".

They are not "questions", however he dressed them. He was deliberately being mischievous in his adventures to castigate Jesus Christ where he said Jesus "told two lies". I saw it the very day he opened the thread and the one reason why NO OTHER Muslim has made any comment here is that they know it is expressly forbidden in Islam for any Muslim to deride their prophets. I waited this long to see how many other Muslims will comment here - but they have all been ducking behind their fingers.

However, the vexations of babs787 are simply that he is worried over one thing: that the prophecies declaring the SOON coming of Jesus Christ had not been fulfilled because the word "soon" has taken far too long. For example:

babs787:


9.
Revelation 22:7, 12, 20 - Jesus says, "Behold, I come quickly."

Almost two thousand years have passed, all those who knew him are long dead, yet Jesus’ promise of a quick return remains unfulfilled.

My one answer to such illiterate rants is this:

Muhammad also "prophesied" that Jesus would SOON descend among Muslims. And I ask if that prophesy was fulfilled by the word "SOON" in Muhammad's "prophecy". WHY has it taken 15 centuries for it to materialize while babs787 buries his head in the sand and pretends to have forgotten that one as well?

As usual posters have deviated from the main point of this thread and have condescended to religious attacks. Obliviously neither party can explain what the above biblical sayings mean. I am not here to attack or defend any religion, I'm only here to offer explanation on the biblical sayings in question.

In other for one understand the sayings in question one must have knowledge of these two spiritual facts -- reincarnation and spiritual death.
1.) Reincarnation.
One life on earth is not enough for the human spirit to attain the maturity and purity that is prerequisite of it for it to return to Paradise. The human spirit must return to earth many times in other to achieve this, however it can only return in a human body. It can only incarnate as a human being, in a human body and never as an animal or inanimate object.
Some people reincarnate to complete tasks that they left uncompleted in their past lives.
2.) Spiritual death.
The death of the physical body is not the real death but only a transition since the Spirit, which is the real man, continues to live after physical death. The physical body, like everything material goes through these four stages i.e. birth, ripeness, over ripeness, and decay. At the death of the physical body, which commences its stage of decay, the spirit detaches from the body and continues its life in the beyond. This is not real death because the spirit, which is the real man, continues to live. But real death is spiritual death, in which case the spirit loses its consciousness and its personality. This is the real death. This is the type of death that is caused by sin, hence: “the wages of sin is death.”

Now let us consider the biblical sayings in question in the light of the knowledge above.

babs787:


Are these really Jesus' words?

1.
Matthew 10:23 - When giving instructions to his apostles as to just how they are to go about spreading his message Jesus says," . . . for truly I say unto you, you shall not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes."

They have since perished but son of man hasnt come

You are wrong to say that they have perished because only their physical bodies perished. Jesus spoke to their spirits, which are still alive and are still spreading His massage. Some of them are on earth today (reincarnated) and are still carrying on the task that Jesus gave them; and up till today the true message of Christ have not finished going through the cities of Israel. They will continue this task till the Son of man comes.

babs787:

2.
Matthew 16:28 - Jesus says to his disciples, "There are some of those standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

They have all tasted death without the sign of son of man.

Once again here, Jesus was referring to Spiritual death and not physical death. So you are wrong to say that they have all tested death. Some of them are on earth today(reincarnated) and some will be reincarnated on earth at the time when the Son of man will come in His kingdom on earth.

babs787:

3.
Matthew 24:33-34 - " . . . when you shall see all these things, know that it (the 2nd coming) is near, even at the door. This generation shall not pass till these things be fulfilled." He was obviously referring to the contemporary generation.

The generation has passed without the fulfilment of his sayings.

Here Jesus' saying has a deep spiritual meaning. “This generation will not pass away” is meant in the spiritual sense. For a generation to pass away means that they have completed their maturity and have returned to Paradise. A spirit in Paradise does not have return to earth anymore, it has risen above the material realms i.e. the physical worlds, to which the earth belong, and the beyond, where spirits sojourn after physical death. Only by living in accordance to God's will can a spirit be able to disentangle all that ties it to material things and be allowed to enter Paradise. This is the completion of spiritual ascent, which is tantamount to passing away from the material worlds.
Christ, seeing that the generation of men on earth at that time will not be able to complete their ascent and return to Paradise before the coming of the Son of man was right to say, "This generation shall not pass till these things be fulfilled." They will still be incarnating on earth and living in the beyond when they die till the Son of man comes.
I can go further here but I have said enough to clarify this particular saying.

babs787:

4.
Matthew 26:64 - When brought before Caiaphas, the Chief Priest, Jesus said to him, "I tell you, hereafter you shall see the Son of Man . . . coming on the clouds of heaven."

According to this the second coming was to happen during Caiaphas' lifetime but nothing of such happened.

Here you must understand that Jesus was speaking from the Spiritual perspective and the Spiritual time and space is different from physical/earthly time and space. For example a thousand years on earth is like a minute in Paradise. Therefore the "hereafter" which was said, to us means very soon but to somebody seeing from the spiritual perspective may mean a thousand years later if compared to earthly time.
Therefore this saying is true because Caiaphas' lifetime is actually his spiritual lifetime which could have been thousand of years or everlasting if he lives by the words of Jesus.

babs787:

5.
Mark 9:1 - Jesus said to the people and to his disciples, ”Verily I say unto you, that there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.


They have all perished with no sign of son of man.

Once again this is easy to understand if one considers the spiritual meaning. The death Jesus spoke about here is spiritual death, so you are wrong to say that they have all perished.

babs787:

6.

Luke 21:27-28 -Jesus said to the congregation, “And then shall they see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.”


Still they have all perished with no sign of him .

Once again you are wrong to say that they have all perished. Some of them may be on earth today (reincarnated) but rest assure they will all reincarnate when the Son of man comes.

babs787:


7.
Luke 21:32 - Jesus said, again to the congregation, “This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.”


But the generation has passed without any fulfillment.

Once again you are wrong, in the spiritual since that generation has not passed away. I have explained this above.

babs787:


8.
John 18:20 - When being questioned by the high priest, Jesus answered, "I spake openly to the world; I have ever taught in the synagogues and in the temple, and in secret have I said nothing." Here he told two lies. For example, the Sermon on the Mount, perhaps his most famous sermon was delivered neither in a synagogue nor in the temple but on a mountain top (Matthew 5:1.)
In Matthew 16:20 he warns his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah. In other words, Keep it a secret.

Here you contradicted yourself. According to your post Jesus said, "I spake openly to the world, " You came up with the sermon on the mount which He spoke openly and which confirmed His truthfulness when he said, "I spake openly to the world, " May I remind you that a mountaintop is also an open place and that a synagogue used as a figure of speech doesn't necessarily have to be a place but a congregation.
If he had warned his disciples not tell anybody that he was the Messiah, this doesn't mean that he was teaching in secret. What makes one a true Christian is the recognition that Jesus is the Son of God, thus the Messiah. However for this recognition to be genuine it must be a personal thing. Only God himself reveals this people. That's why Jesus told Peter that neither heaven nor earth had revealed this to Peter but His father who is in heaven. Jesus went about teaching the will of God openly; those that are of God heard Him and followed Jesus and God revealed to them that Jesus is the Messiah.  If Jesus had started by telling everybody that He was the Messiah, then most of the people will come to test him or get his miracle, and this will remove their attention from the most important thing which is hearing and living the words of Jesus. Poeple must be allowed to come to the recognition of Who Jesus is(The son of God) by themselves through the words of Jesus, thats why you dont go about telling poeple that Jesus is the son of God.

The recognition of God lies in His words.

babs787:


9.
Revelation 22:7, 12, 20 - Jesus says, "Behold, I come quickly."

Almost two thousand years have passed, all those who knew him are long dead, yet Jesus’ promise of a quick return remains unfulfilled.

Even one million earth years is still very quickly compared to spiritual time.  Jesus spoke from spiritual perspective. Once again you are wrong to say that they have all passed away.


Please lets not drag the Holy words of Jesus down. Lets not use Holy words as weapons for fighting and defending religions. The words were given to our spirits and if we open our spirits to the words in the correct manner, our spirits will find its way back to Paradise and live forever.

I have drawn my knowledge from "In the Light of Truth: The Grail Message" by ABD-RU-SHIN. Being an imperfect human spirit my explanation cannot be perfect. If you want hear from the horses mouth, from the Truth Itself, read the Grail Message

@justcool,

justcool:

As usual posters have deviated from the main point of this thread and have condescended to religious attacks.

There was nothing tangible to be addressed in the original post that pened this thread; and if you could not see that the originator was set in his ways to castigate and deride Christ Himself from the onset, you will never be able to make sense even in your submissions.

justcool:

Obliviously neither party can explain what the above biblical sayings mean.

Don't be too sure about that - I'll wait to see how far you have performed before taking your early pride on board.

justcool:

I am not here to attack or defend any religion, I only here to offer explanation on the biblical sayings in question.

Okay. . . we'll see just how you seek to explain them.

justcool:

In other for one understand the sayings in question one must have knowledge of these two spiritual facts -- reincarnation and spiritual death.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble too soon. The Bible does not teach "reincarnation" - and that already is a dead tool in trying to exegete the Bible by any stretch. You would rather need revelation and insight by the Spirit of God before you can understand the meaning of those verses.

justcool:

You are wrong to say that they have perished because only their physical bodies perished. Jesus spoke to their spirits, which are still alive and are still spreading His massage. Some of them are on earth today (reincarnated) and are still carrying on the task that Jesus gave them; and up till today the true message of Christ have finished going through the cities of Israel. They will continue this task till the Son of man comes.

Lol. . . the highlighted parts in yours leaks through. None of the apostles are on earth today; nor are they still carrying out the task that Jesus gane them. This fact is borne out by the very scriptures they were inspired to pen down:

2 Cor. 5:6-8
Therefore we are always confident, knowing that,
whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
(For we walk by faith, not by sight
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body,
and to be present with the Lord.

Php. 1:23-24
For I am in a strait betwixt two,
having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ;
which is far better: Nevertheless to abide in the flesh
is more needful for you.

2 Pet. 1:14
Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle,
even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

Eccl. 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

When one leaves this earth, his spirit does not remain on the earth roaming about and doing some kind of work - it goes back to God who gave it! Those who have died do not engage in any kind of work or commission:

Eccl. 9:6
Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished;
neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that
is done under the sun.

Eccl. 9:10
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might;
for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom,
in the grave, whither thou goest.

There! The Bible does not teach what you are espousing. And the reason why you have assumed to "explain" those verses the way you did and still missed the point, is this:

justcool:

I have drawn my knowledge from "In the Light of Truth: The Grail Message" by ABD-RU-SHIN. Being an imperfect human spirit my explanation cannot be perfect. If you want hear from the horses mouth, from the Truth Itself, read the Grail Message

Unfortunately, Abd-Ru-Shin does not exegete the Bible - he takes from its pages to produce what even his followers today have no coherence to bear out.

Cheers.

@ pilgrim.1
Thanks but I have to say this. You defend and attack religions but like I said, I don't deal with religions. I don't even have a religion. Neither do I defend the Bible for I have made it known many times that although the Bible still contains some truths, it has been interfered with thus it also contains some things that are not in accord with the Truth. The Koran itself is also very much interfered it. Both books have been reduced to religious weapons and neither contains the Truth in it pure form.

It ridiculous of you to discredit my explanation based on the fact that certain verses of the Bible do not agree with it when I never claimed to have drawn my knowledge from the Bible.  I made it clear that I draw from the Grail Message. 

However I owe it to God for the recognition that He has granted me out of the Grail message, to defend His words which mankind has reduced to religion. Neither Christ nor Mohamed brought any religion. They brought the living word of God for man irrespective of his race, nationality, and creed. Jesus who was, is and will forever remain the love of God brought His word for every human spirit. Whenever I find his word being massacered like you have always done, I will always offer the truth. Not for you but for those who your words might mislead. It is left for everybody to examine both and decide which makes more sense.

You have judged ABD-RU-SHIN by saying that he takes from the pages of the Bible.  Rest assured we will all recieve the judgment we give to others. This attack on the personality of ABD-RU-SHIN is uncalled for! Why can't we let facts speak against facts? Why must we condescend to attacking people who have done nothing wrong to us.

I stand proudly by my words and don't ever think that you can intimidate me.

@justcool,

justcool:

@ pilgrim.1
Thanks but I have to say this. You defend and attack religions but like I said, I don't deal with religions.

I cannot be defending and attacking religions all at the same time; so your statement truly leaks through. If you don't deal with religions, one wonders what you were doing in discussing religious matters in the first place.

justcool:

I don't even have a religion. Neither do I defend the Bible for I have made it known many times that although the Bible still contains some truths, it has been interfered with thus it also contains some things that are not in accord with the Truth. The Koran itself is also very much interfered it. Both books have been reduced to religious weapons and neither contains the Truth in it pure form.

Attacking the Bible and the Qur'an at the same time while claiming that you are not doing so, does not really score the mark. The one thing that you have done was to try and advertize the same trend as Abd-ru-shin did - pretend to expound Biblical truth while callously proclaiming that the Bible contains "some truths". This is typically the lyrics of people who are intellectually challenged - and we should make no pretences about the fact that they have deliberately sought to ridicle the convictions of other people while pretending a scholarship they obviously do not possess!

If you can learn to drop such callous attitude when you discuss issues, perhaps you will not have to come back whinging the way you do. WHY should anyone want to let you into the theater with a free pass to ridicule and degrade their convictions while you cry hooha at being set straight on such matters?

justcool:

It ridiculous of you to discredit my explanation based on the fact that certain verses of the Bible does not agree with it when I never claimed to have drawn my knowledge from the Bible. I made it clear that I draw from the Grail Message.

You could draw your knowledge from the stone under Arabia for all I care - Mr Shin's book is a softsell that has not stood up to scrutiny the way you guys demand of the Bible. Period.

Your so-called "explanation" clearly contradicted Biblical teaching - and that was why I offered the verses in my rejoinder to show you HOW, WHY and WHERE! You cannot come on board and make bland statements and expect us to just swallow them like some gullible turkeys! Sorry, Mr Shin may lead you by the nose - but for me, no such shakara will survive if you bring it near me!

justcool:

However I owe it to God for the recognition that He has granted me out of the Grail message, to defend His words which mankind has reduced to religion.

Don't be fooled. The saddest thing for anyone to accalim is pretend to have been freed from "religion" when he is deep into it - only it comes under a different name!

justcool:

Neither Christ nor Mohamed brought any religion.

I see. Please open the Qur'an and read what Muhammad said:


Qur'an 2 v 193:
And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.
But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers

Qur'an 3 v 019:
The Religion before God is Islam (submission to His Will):
Nor did the People of the Book dissent therefrom except through
envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them.
But if any deny the Signs of God, God is swift in calling to account.

You may sit smug behind the 'puter and think to impress Muslims - obviously they will be impressed indeed if you ignorantly deny what is in their holy writ.

justcool:

They brought the living word of God for man irrespective of his race, nationality, and creed.

Another LIE. Go find out if Muhammad gave two shillings' concern about your Abd-ru-Shin creed! Pleaase impress me, and I'll only be too glad to wise you up this New Year!

justcool:

Jesus who was, is and will forever remain the love of God brought His word for every human spirit. Whenever I find his word being massacered like you have always done, I will always offer the truth.

Where did I massacre His WORD? Or, HOW did I do so? Are you making these cheap claims because you felt cheapened on your adventures of trying to be so slick in offering "reincarnation" into the Bible where there was none?

I'm sorry, don't take a bad hit. Truth be told - your ideas are NOT espoused by the Bible. . . and you cannot cross the bridge from Abd-ru-Shin's creed into the Bible and then scoot off the way you did!

justcool:

Not for you but for those who your words might mislead. It is left for everybody to examine both and decide which makes more sense.

Thank you for making it clear that your efforts to bring the WORD were not for me. Again, not all who read and compare will be as blind as you had hoped they would be!

justcool:

You have judged ABD-RU-SHIN by saying that he takes from the pages of the Bible. Rest assured we will all recieve the judgment we give to others.

Was he quoting from the pages of a magazine? Puh-leeeaase! You guys should grow up and cease from these cheap scare-antics! Abd-ru-Shin copped out verses from the Bible and sculpted anti-Biblical ideas. Period.

Would I be judged for stating the truth? Woo. . . I'm shaking terribly from fright - NOT!

justcool:

This attack on the personality of ABD-RU-SHIN is uncalled for! Why can't we let facts speak against facts? Why must we condescend to attacking people who have done nothing wrong to us.

If you actually wanted FACTS to speak for FACTS, hold your peace, employ some sanity in reading through my persuasions and then show me WHERE, HOW or WHY you felt I might've missed your gist. I ahve held discussions with many people in very amicable manner - but those who read me well know enough to understand that pilgrim.1 is zero-tolerant to deception of ANY kind!

justcool:

I stand proudly by my words and don't ever think that you can intimidate me.

You don't feel the need to mention that if you were not already intimidated by your drivel.

Pass along and let's see some more serious gist in this thread.

@ pilgrim.1
Mind you you have nt given any explanations as per the meaning of the words of Jesus posted. All you have done is attack moslems and justcoll and the Mr shin.
You are a tipical Nigerian girl,always ready toattack but never objective.

pilgrim.1:

@justcool,
I cannot be defending and attacking religions all at the same time; so your statement truly leaks through. If you don't deal with religions, one wonders what you were doing in discussing religious matters in the first place.

Of course you are attacking islam(religion) and defending Christianity(religion) so you can be attacking and defending religion at the same time.

pilgrim.1:

@justcool,

Don't be fooled. The saddest thing for anyone to accalim is pretend to have been freed from "religion" when he is deep into it - only it comes under a different name!

I see. Please open the Qur'an and read what Muhammad said:


Qur'an 2 v 193:
And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah.
But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers

Qur'an 3 v 019:
The Religion before God is Islam (submission to His Will):
Nor did the People of the Book dissent therefrom except through
envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them.
But if any deny the Signs of God, God is swift in calling to account.

What tha ??
somebody cannot be freed by "religion"
You mean somebody cannot be free of religions!!
Besides,the guy just told you that the quoran has being interfered with and still you are quoeting the quoran on him?
What if he tells you that the verses you quoted are those interfered with.

I'm still waiting to hear you explanation on the Jesus's sayings

@seeklove,

seeklove:

@ pilgrim.1
Mind you you have nt given any explanations as per the meaning of the words of Jesus posted. All you have done is attack moslems and justcoll and the Mr shin.
You are a tipical Nigerian girl,always ready toattack but never objective.

Hehehe. . . True talk - even though I dey UK, I am a typical Nigerian lady, and I'm proud to make that point very clear to all yanga people that Nigerain women are not dunces. Match intelligence for intelligence, one of the many reasons why I started investigating my fate as a (former-) Muslim was because Islam sees women as below average on the IQ scale.

That said, thank you for your inputs. And no, I won't 'attack' you. If "explanations" are sought from me, then I would oblige - I have never been shy of dealing with issues; and so many times have I made it clear that where the motive in any debate is a DELIBERATE Islamic castigating of my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, I will spare NOTHING to sanitize the stupidity of the rascals involved in such games. This na 2008 - and anyone who wants to bring the old game over should tread softly.

That was why I earlier hinted that:

pilgrim.1:

@justcool,

There was nothing tangible to be addressed in the original post that opened this thread; and if you could not see that the originator was set in his ways to castigate and deride Christ Himself from the onset, you will never be able to make sense even in your submissions.

The original poster was not interested in reason and amicable discussions. For all he cared, Jesus Christ in his quote "told two lies" - did you miss that? I simply left him to ride on castigating the same One the Muslims regard as their "beloved" prophet, so that readers at least could see clearly that Muslim love for Jesus Christ is HYPOCRISY undiluted! The many Muslims who troll this motherboard are pretending they NEVER saw it - that is why they have deliberately stayed away from this thread and allowed such brigand adventures of a Muslim referring to Christ as having "told two lies". Well done.

If una want answers, relax. Answers plenty in the Bible - and in due course, I shall come back to discuss it in DETAIL. If I summarize my inputs, babs787 go complain (as he did in recent times) that I don't say much these days. But just to let him know how wrong he was, readers will read from me in due course.

For now, I am simply observing the rough play from those who have taken it upon themselves to LIE for 'Allah'. That adventure is one of the things I have determined to bleach in this New Year.

seeklove:

Of course you are attacking islam(religion) and defending Christianity(religion) so you can be attacking and defending religion at the same time.

Point made. I was being facetous to dear justcool, and actually wanted him to understand that his entries were deliberately and unjustifiably maligning Christianity. Not to mention that he really doesn't have a clue about what he was espousing before making comments.

seeklove:

What tha ??
somebody cannot be freed by "religion"
You mean somebody cannot be free of religions!!
Besides,the guy just told you that the quoran has being interfered with and still you are quoeting the quoran on him?
What if he tells you that the verses you quoted are those interfered with.

Rest your heart. It is of no consequence to me at all if the gentleman has his own personal persuasion against the Bible or Qur'an - but he obviously was bloviating by trying to cheat us about whether or not Muhammad brought RELIGION!

I just knew his was spewing what he had been spoonfed without CAREFULLY checking the FACTS either in the Qur'an or the Bible!! For which reason I simply offered him a few out of the MANY verses in the Qur'an to show that Muhammad INDEED brought religion. I was hoping that he would kindly come back and let me know if Qur'an 3 v 19 is no longer in the Qur'an - "The Religion before God is Islam".

To make a conclusive statement and try to pass that off as authentic is simply asking for some bleaching till he has no colours left! But with guys like you weighing in on the issue, I acquiesce and will gently set him down next time! (Let's just hope he won't come again in any rascally moves).

seeklove:

I'm still waiting to hear you explanation on the Jesus's sayings

Dear bros, I will definitely offer some pointers to help readers. You're not the only person requesting this - there are loads of emailers who have challenged me to respond with clear enunciations as well. The one thing I am waiting for here is a response from the originator as to whether Muhammad's "prophecy" of Jesus SOON coming has been fulfilled after 15 centuries?

As I often say - na my own I sidon jeje until. . .

I hope that this year will bring us many happy occasions to discuss. It all depends on whether or not Muslims will have it the usual way of being taken to the cleaners.

@ Seeklove
I'm happy that you an unbiased person is examining the issue.

seeklove:

Besides,the guy just told you that the quoran has being interfered with and still you are quoting the quoran on him?
What if he tells you that the verses you quoted are those interfered with.

Thank you! you completely made my point here. I never told her that I my source was the Koran.
I proudly stand by my word that neither Jesus nor Mohamed nor any true prophet from God ever brought a religion. Religions of today have become a canopy that shields people from personally experiencing the Truth and exercising their free will. It has degenerated to a political weapon sometimes used for oppressing the poor. Remember Hitler was on the Good side of the largest Christian organisation -- the catholics. Islam today condons terrorism and senseless killing of Christians. Anybody with the slightest intuition will be repulsed by this satanic sects called religions.
Therefore I don't need the Koran nor the Bible to know that if Mohamed was a true prophet he could not have brought a religion. But some of us have lost our ability weigh and examine with our Gods given intuition that we have to consult the Bible or the Koran for the most simple things.

@justcool,

Let's help you grasp simply English, if you're struggling with it.

(a) Your assertion that Muhammad did not bring a religion is hugely flawed by what is in the Qur'an - and that was the reason why I quoted the verses to establish the FACT!

(b) It is inconsequential what you think of the Bible or the Qur'an, as long as you don't assume to make false statements about them and pretend them as truth. In which case, your pretentions that Muhammad never brought any religion is false - for the Qur'an demonstrates otherwise.

(c) If you care for simplicity and truth, you will not leave yourself open to the sort of embarrassments that you struggle to come back to save face - and that was why I hinted that it were better you carefully checked with the FACTS before assuming to make any comments.

justcool:

Therefore I don't need the Koran nor the Bible to know that if Mohamed was a true prophet he could not have brought a religion. But some of us have lost our ability weigh and examine with our Gods given intuition that we have to consult the Bible or the Koran for the most simple things.

Such assumptions are the hallmark of self-deception; because what you allege against others are more heavily manifested in yours. You have closed your eyes against the FACTS and refused to go directly to the sources, and that is why you keep making otiose remarks that bear no weight at all. God did not give you intelligence to make false statements against issues you have no clues - so please refrain from these cheap applauses and do the simple thing that common sense requires.

@ pilgrim.1
I must be honest with you, Justcool dosent deserve your unnecesary aggresion towards him. 

pilgrim.1:

@justcool,

Let's help you grasp simply English, if you're struggling with it.

(a) Your assertion that Muhammad did not bring a religion is hugely flawed by what is in the Qur'an - and that was the reason why I quoted the verses to establish the FACT!

(b) It is inconsequential what you think of the Bible or the Qur'an, as long as you don't assume to make false statements about them and pretend them as truth. In which case, your pretentions that Muhammad never brought any religion is false - for the Qur'an demonstrates otherwise.

(c) If you care for simplicity and truth, you will not leave yourself open to the sort of embarrassments that you struggle to come back to save face - and that was why I hinted that it were better you carefully checked with the FACTS before assuming to make any comments.

a) I compeletly diasgree with you here. By the guys source Muhamed did not bring any religion. But by your source(the quran) he did bring anew religion. But the guy is not qureeling with you over the quran. why do you keep beinging up the quran to him.
You qouted the quran to establish a fact . This is serious ohhh !!!!!! So the moselems have finally won you over. Since when did the quran become factual

b) You keep using the quran which you know is not the guys source.

c) I don't see any saving face on the guys side. You didnt understand my first post I never agreed with your oversealous manner.

pilgrim.1:

Such assumptions are the hallmark of self-deception; because what you allege against others are more heavily manifested in yours. You have closed your eyes against the FACTS and refused to go directly to the sources, and that is why you keep making otiose remarks that bear no weight at all. God did not give you intelligence to make false statements against issues you have no clues - so please refrain from these cheap applauses and do the simple thing that common sense requires.

I can't bekieve this!!!! What sources?? the quran.  Please sombody help me tell philgrim 1 that the quran and the bible is not justcoll's sources.


Sorry but I have to say the truth.

pilgrim.1:

@justcool,

Let's help you grasp simply English, if you're struggling with it.

@ seeklove and Nairalanders
Please help me here but the English above is very wrong.
It should be: Let's help you grasp simple English!!! not simply English.



The one who wants to help me grasp "simply" English could not even write it.
My dear please don't take this personal.

@justcool,

Lol. . . I knew you would fall easily for that - and it would really have been surprising if you did not! Indeed I make some typo-errors when I'm quite busy; but not in the one you pointed out. I could easily leave it your way to appease you. . . but let me share precisely what happened.

I had initially typed "simpl[b]e[/b]" but edited it and re-typed "simpl[b]y[/b]". WHY? Because the point I was trying to pass across is not an English course, but the basic outline in my rejoinder. There is a huge difference - and this should not have presented you with any problems at all if you ever heard of positional adjectives.

Positional adjectives simply means that one could place a qualifier in a number of ways depending on the context and the substance of what the writer/speaker was passing across. In which case I could have said it in any of these ways:

       ~ Let's help you grasp simply English

       ~ Let's help you simply grasp English

                     or

       ~ Let's help you grasp English simply

If I was taking you on an English course, you might have had a point. But please look again at my rejoinder - that was hardly a course in English but a delineation of my persuasions in a neat outline!

When I need to take someone on a course in English, then I would be speaking of "simple English" rather than "simply English". The former indicates that I'm hoping they would understand something in English; while the latter is to help them see issues more easily!

Proof? I have actually applied both forms in other threads, and let me remind you of a few. In another thread where i wanted someone to understand the meaning of the English word "confirm", I walked him through an English course on that word:

          ~ "Do you struggle with simpl[b]e[/b] statements in English?" (click here)

          ~ "I knew you would come back with long stories - that was why I took time out
          to carefully walk you through elementary English understanding of the word CONFIRM."
          (click here)

          ~ "Let me take babs787 on an English course and then come back and show him
          what the Qur'an exactly claimed to do!" (click here)


The above are the few that I remember momentarily - but the point was that I was more concerned that he got a (or 'an') English understanding of the word "confirm" - and that was why I could share such as though I led him through "an English course".

However, if my intention was not to take my discussant through an English course, it would be absurd for me to have misled him into thinking I was about delineating my points if I used the word "simpl[b]y[/b]" instead of "simple".

You may not agree with all this, and no worries. There are so many more examples that you might want to check up on that may excite you as well. Sample:

       ~ He must need[b]s[/b] attempt the exercise!

Now, this whole rejoinder is an English course rather than focusing on the topic of the thread. What would I say? Here:

       ~ 'I have only tried to simpl[b]y[/b] help you grasp the meaning'

                           or

       ~ 'I tried to help you grasp simpl[b]y[/b] the meaning of the statement'.


Lol. . . I guess a lot of people struggle indeed with English (or should I say again: 'English[b]es[/b]').

@seeklove,

seeklove:

@ pilgrim.1
I must be honest with you, Justcool dosent deserve your unnecesary aggresion towards him.

 

I could easily have said "sorry" and let it end there. But if honesty should speak for itself, I don't see how I have been aggresive towards him if he did not invite a no-nonsense response from me. People should not try to present decorative farce and wave it in our faces and pretend they have a clue what they're talking about ESPECIALLY where they have closed their eyes to FACTS and refused to go directly to the sources that inform the subject of this discussion.

seeklove:

a) I compeletly diasgree with you here. By the guys source Muhamed did not bring any religion. But by your source(the quran) he did bring anew religion.

No worries. . . I have never had any problems with anyone disagreeing with me, and people are free to do so - especially when he intoned that readers could examine the issues for themselves.

To assert that Muhammad did not bring any religion when infact Muhammad himself clearly said that HE DID is to play a deceptive game that only weakens the course of intellectual honesty. Who was he trying to fool by blinding himself to the facts - or what does he hope to achieve by trying to force words into Muhammad's mouth? He claims Muhammad never did so - whereas Muhammad clearly ASSERTED that he did! If justcool cannot simply acknowledge what Muhammad said, why was his blood boiling over when I made statements about Abd-ru-Shin?

I consider it a display of classic hypocrisy to see the FACTS and then pretend they are otherwise as appear!

seeklove:

But the guy is not qureeling with you over the quran. why do you keep beinging up the quran to him.

I wasn't quarrelling with him over any religious writ - I only quoted those verses to demonstrate to him that he was playing a convenience game of deception to claim the direct opposite of what Muhammad asserted and then make Muhammad look like he was saying something different from what he did in the Qur'an!

seeklove:

You qouted the quran to establish a fact . This is serious ohhh !!!!!! So the moselems have finally won you over. Since when did the quran become factual

I quoted the Qur'an to establish the FACT that justcool was being deceptive in his assertions - as I have explained in detail above. It does not mean that the Qur'an is FACT in all matters of religion. I hope you can see the divide?

It is just as well to say that Abd-ru-Shin never taught or said certain things. I know how many Grail messengers would swarm down on me and QUOTE verses or lines from "In The Light of Truth" to prove the FACT the Shin actually said those things! It does not mean that Mr Shin's book is "THE Fact" if I quoted from his book - it would only mean that the person quoting his book would be trying to establish the FACT that I had no clue what I was arguing!

seeklove:

b) You keep using the quran which you know is not the guys source.

Yep - I kept using the Qur'an to show that he was contradicting Muhammad DIRECTLY! If he was willing to accept what Muhammad stated and not claim the opposite, then neither of you would have a problem with my quoting from the Qur'an.

When atheists quote from the Bible, they do so - not to "prove" that they believe the Bible to be factual - but rather to establish their point that people argue AGAINST simple FACTS in their own persuasion! No one should have a problem with anyone quoting from the Qur'an to establish their convictions - Apostates from Islam also quote the Qur'an to establish one FACT: that they believe the Qur'an is a huge fraud, even though that is not what Muslims believe!

seeklove:

c) I don't see any saving face on the guys side. You didnt understand my first post I never agreed with your oversealous manner.

No worries.

seeklove:

I can't bekieve this!!!! What sources?? the quran.  Please sombody help me tell philgrim 1 that the quran and the bible is not justcoll's sources.

What are you screaming your head for? I already acknowledged his assertion that he got his ideas from mr Shin's book - please go through again and refrain from this hyperventilating exercise.

seeklove:

Sorry but I have to say the truth.

Gratefully acknowledged.

Cheers.

@pilgrim


Let me have where Muhammad started Islam and I will give you verses from the Quran telling you that those before him were Muslims and practised same but it wasd during his time that it was made complete (i.e five compulsory daily prayers etc).

So if you are ready for a debate on that, I am equally ready to lecture you




@Justcool

Since Pilgrim.1 is not ready to reply the false prophecies attributed to Jesus but quick at addressing the 82% sayings that are not of Jesus, I will attend to your post that seemed to be your response towards the falseuun0fulfilled prophecies. Dont worry, we just started, by the time I am through with your bible, we will know if surely all the sayings attributed to him are his. Thanks for trying to reply but your response didnt go well with those prophecies.

Now let us consider the biblical sayings in question in the light of the knowledge above.

Good



1.
Matthew 10:23 - When giving instructions to his apostles as to just how they are to go about spreading his message Jesus says," . . . for truly I say unto you, you shall not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes."

They have since perished but son of man hasnt come

You are wrong to say that they have perished because only their physical bodies perished. Jesus spoke to their spirits, which are still alive and are still spreading His massage. Some of them are on earth today (reincarnated) and are still carrying on the task that Jesus gave them; and up till today the true message of Christ have finished going through the cities of Israel. They will continue this task till the Son of man comes.

Brother, why bringing the issue of perished and physical body here when the verse is self explanatory? In case you missed the verse, here is what it says " you shall not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes."

Now Jesus made it known to us that he was talking to those that were with him then, hence the word 'you'. The verse says that they wouldnt have gone through the cities when he would come meaning that he was referring to physical bodies and not your believe that he was referring to their spirits.



Quote from: babs787 on December 20, 2007, 06:10 PM
2.
Matthew 16:28 - Jesus says to his disciples, "There are some of those standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

They have all tasted death without the sign of son of man.

Once again here, Jesus was referring to Spiritual death and not physical death. So you are wrong to say that they have all tested death. Some of them are on earth today and some will be reincarnated on earth at the time when the Son of man will come in His kingdom on earth.

Brother, too hard for you to explain . You got it wrong. He wasnt referring to spiritual death. Common, Jesus made a very straight forward statement by saying that 'those standing with him would not taste death till he comes. who are you referring to when you said that 'some of them are on earth now'?. Are you saying that those with Jesus when he made that statement are still around now/ Common, dont give me that, you cant pull wool over me when it comes to reading the bible.



Quote from: babs787 on December 20, 2007, 06:10 PM
3.
Matthew 24:33-34 - " . . . when you shall see all these things, know that it (the 2nd coming) is near, even at the door. This generation shall not pass till these things be fulfilled." He was obviously referring to the contemporary generation.

The generation has passed without the fulfilment of his sayings.

Here Jesus' saying has a deep spiritual meaning. “This generation will not pass away” is meant in the spiritual sense. For a generation to pass away means that they have completed their maturity and have returned to Paradise. A spirit in Paradise does not have return to earth anymore, it has risen above the material realms i.e. the physical worlds, to which the earth belong, and the beyond, where spirits sojourn after physical death. Only by living in accordance to God's will can a spirit be able to disentangle all that ties it to material things and be allowed to enter Paradise. This is the completion of spiritual ascent, which is tantamount to passing away from the material worlds.
Christ, seeing that the generation of men on earth at that time will not be able to complete their ascent and return to Paradise before the coming of the Son of man was right to say, "This generation shall not pass till these things be fulfilled." They will still be incarnating on earth and living in the beyond when they die till the Son of man comes.
I can go further here but I have said enough to clarify this particular saying.

Buroda , dont blindfold me with your spiritual death. The verses are above your understanbding hence your beating about the bush. I dont know why christians like addressing issue wrongly despite even if the truth is very glaring. Jesus here made a statement that even a toddler can interprete without beating about the bush, he said that 'this generation shall not pass till these things be fulfilled' and you keep mentioning spiritual death. He was referring to those with him and their generation and can you please tell me if the generation we are now is the same as that of Jesus?



Quote from: babs787 on December 20, 2007, 06:10 PM
4.
Matthew 26:64 - When brought before Caiaphas, the Chief Priest, Jesus said to him, "I tell you, hereafter you shall see the Son of Man . . . coming on the clouds of heaven."

According to this the second coming was to happen during Caiaphas' lifetime but nothing of such happened.

Here you must understand that Jesus was speaking from the Spiritual perspective and the Spiritual time and space is different from physical/earthly time and space. For example a thousand years on earth is like a minute in Paradise. Therefore the "hereafter" which was said, to us means very soon but to somebody seeing from the spiritual perspective may mean a thousand years later if compared to earthly time.
Therefore this saying is true because Caiaphas' lifetime is actually his spiritual lifetime which could have been thousand of years or everlasting if he lives by the words of Jesus.

Why not stop this your spiritual death for a second and read to understand rather than giving me what you had no knowledge of. Jesus says that "I tell you, hereafter you shall see the Son of Man . . . coming on the clouds of heaven." . He was referring to those that arrested and tried him and when you said that he was referring to caiphas spiritual lifetime, is caiphas going to see the son of man coming on the clouds of heaven when he (caiphas) is already in heaven!!! Common, read to understand, Jesus was referring to those with him that they would see him on the clouds of heaven probably when he will be coming to make judgement.



Quote from: babs787 on December 20, 2007, 06:10 PM
5.
Mark 9:1 - Jesus said to the people and to his disciples, ”Verily I say unto you, that there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.


They have all perished with no sign of son of man.

Once again this is easy to understand if one considers the spiritual meaning. The death Jesus spoke about here is spiritual death, so you are wrong to say that they have all perished.

Of course it is very easy to understand but you interpreted it wrongly.Continue hiding behind spiritual death . Jesus made us known that 'Verily I say unto you, that there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power'. What could be as clear as this?


He said that those standing would not taste death till son of man comes and you said he was referring to spiritual death. Haba, are you saying that he meant 'those standing here will not taste spiritual death till he comes?!!! Now from his statement, he made us known that some of them (not all of them) will not taste death, are you saying that he meant spiritual and we decide to go by your statement, if some will not taste spiritual death, what happened to others when he said that 'some of them that stand here'?




Quote from: babs787 on December 20, 2007, 06:10 PM
6.

Luke 21:27-28 -Jesus said to the congregation, “And then shall they see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.”

Still they have all perished with no sign of him .

Once again you are wrong to say that they have all perished. Some of them may be on earth today (reincarnated) but rest assure they will all reincarnate when the Son of man comes.

Did you say some may be on earth!! . If I am wrong in saying that they have all perished, please where are they now and what does perish mean to you? Jesus made a statement to those with him (congregation) “And then shall they see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.”

His statement made us known that he was referring to physical death and not spiritual death. He completed the verse by saying that 'then look up and lift your heads' meaning that he was referring to physical being and not spiritual death you have been posting all these wile .



Quote from: babs787 on December 20, 2007, 06:10 PM
7.
Luke 21:32 - Jesus said, again to the congregation, “This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.”

But the generation has passed without any fulfillment.

Once again you are wrong, in the spiritual since that generation has not passed away. I have explained this above.

Buroda, you flawed in your post again . Jesus made a self explanatory statement therein when he said that' this generation shall not pass away and please what generation do you think he was referring and do we still have the generation he referred to




Quote from: babs787 on December 20, 2007, 06:10 PM

9.
Revelation 22:7, 12, 20 - Jesus says, "Behold, I come quickly."

Almost two thousand years have passed, all those who knew him are long dead, yet Jesus’ promise of a quick return remains unfulfilled.



Even one million earth years is still very quickly compared to spiritual time. Jesus spoke from spiritual perspective. Once again you are wrong to say that they have all passed away.


Please lets not drag the Holy words of Jesus down. Lets not use Holy words as weapons for fighting and defending religions. The words were given to our spirits and if we open our spirits to the words in the correct manner, our spirits will find its way back to Paradise and live forever.

I have drawn my knowledge from "In the Light of Truth: The Grail Message" by ABD-RU-SHIN. Being an imperfect human spirit my explanation cannot be perfect. If you want hear from the horses mouth, from the Truth Itself, read the Grail Message

Brother, dont spoon feed me with your spiritual death which you dont even understand. I understand the bible perfectly more than you can ever imagine cos it happened to be the first book I read before Quran.

Now let us look at his saying again in that verse ' Jesus says, "Behold, I come quickly'. Do I need to explain to you before you will understand the simple saying attributed to Jesus.

Brother, you tried but didnt get it. Thsoe sayings couldnt have been for Jesus.

@babs787
Thank you so much for examining my words. At least you are addressing the issue and not attacking personalities. 
However you chose not to accept my explanations. You chose to believe that the son of God was talking to their physical bodies rather than their spirits. I cannot force you to accept the Truth, you either take it or live it. Rest assured, I stand proudly by my words which none have been able to ridicule.
I wish you well on your path.
Remain blessed

@justcool

Thank you so much for examining my words. At least you are addressing the issue and not attacking personalities.

I dont do that but reply if someone start it. My posts speaks for me.

However you chose not to accept my explanations. You chose to believe that the son of God was talking to their physical bodies rather than their spirits. I cannot force you to accept the Truth, you either take it or live it. Rest assured, I stand proudly by my words which none have been able to ridicule.
I wish you well on your path.
Remain blessed

No brother, I have been involved in what you called truth for years before reverting to Islam, so I know a lot about your bible. Go through the prophecies again and my posts and you would see that he wasnt referring to spiritual death as you imagined but all the same I wish you best of luck in your endeavours


Stay blessed brother.

http://www.inu.net/skeptic/lie.html

babs787, as long as you're baiting Christians with arguments from atheists (see link), how about checking out what these atheists have to say about Islam?

I was shocked when I heard the wretch babblings of one of the sons of Deedat, asserting with such an impious hubris, that Jesus was a liar. He quoted John 18:19-20
             "The high priest then asked Jesus of his disciples, and of his doctrine. Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing".Jesus indeed taught the jews and His disciples in the open ( Matt 5:1). He taught in the synagogue and in the temple ( Matt 9:35, John 7:14). In Matt 16:20, Jesus charged His disciples to tell no man that He was the CHRIST-The Son of God. You alleged that Jesus lied to the high priest by saying that He said nothing in the secret.That very foundless and groundless accusation obviously exposes your amateurish naivety of the Scriptures .The fact that Christ is the Son of God was an open secret to the Jews of His time. He made it known to the jews that He had the same nature with the Father. "I and my Father are one ( John 10:30)",said Jesus. The jews became mad on hearing this( as many people do today) and Christ quickly rekindled the glowing splinter by quoting Psalm 82:6 to confirm His deity. After this, He unequivocably declared "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world,Thou blasphemest; because I said ,I am the Son of God?",John10:36. So the jews knew that He was the Son of God ,thus it is no more a secret.

Matthew 10:23 - declares
" . . . for verily I say unto you,Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of Man be come." Toward the close of the earthly ministry of Christ, He actually withdrew from public service to concentrate on the Disciples in order to teach them the deep mysteries of the kingdom including the signs of the end of time, among others. During this time, He exposed the disciples to the various dimensions of escatology- the study of the last days events. One fact we need to bear in mind is that this escatological message of Christ is not meant for the consumption of the immediate disciples alone but for believers of all ages before Christ returns. "And what I say unto you I say unto all (including those that shall hereafter believe), watch (Mark 13:37)",exclaimed Jesus. This fact is further supported and corroborated by the intercessory prayer offered by Jesus,to the Father, on behalf of His disciples shortly before His departure. Neither pray I for these (the immediate disciples) alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word"( John 17:20), Jesus affirmed.  Now back to Matt 10:23; Christ was only saying that the gospel would continue to be proclaimed to the jews till His return. you can read Matt 24:14.

Mark 9:1 says "And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, that there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power".Six days after Jesus made this statement, He took Peter, James and John( the inner circle) to a night vigil in a mountain to show them a glimpse of His glory ( to show them a shining scintilla of the glory of God's kingdom). Apart from this, we need  to know that the Holy Ghost is the power of God's kingdom.Jesus said to His disciples, "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you", John 14:18.The Holy Spirit is actually the Spirit of Christ, which came upon the disciples at pentecost with great glory and power. Read Act1:8,2:2. 

Luke 21:32 reads “This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.” The immediate disciples did not leave to witness the huge quantity of the signs of the end predicted by Jesus."This generation" is actually referring to the generation that begins to see the intensification of the general signs of the end time.

Matthew 26:64 - When brought before Caiaphas, the Chief Priest, Jesus said to him, "I tell you, hereafter you shall see the Son of Man . . . coming on the clouds of heaven." My brother stop casting aspersions on the authority of the Scriptures.  A parallel passage of the Scriptures will help you to understand what Christ was saying. They (Caiaphas and the Scribes) asked him "Art thou the Christ? tell us.And ge said unto them, If I tell you, you will not believe, Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God", Luke 22:66-69.


Revelation 22:7, 12, 20 - Jesus says, "Behold, I come quickly."

2 peter 3:8-9 actually puts your ignorance and scepticism to rest/

@trumpeter,

trumpeter:

I was shocked when I heard the wretch babblings of one of the sons of Deedat, asserting with such an impious hubris, that Jesus was a liar.

You need not be shocked, really. This is the one thing I have been trying to make the public reader understand - that Muslims in reality have no reverence for Jesus Christ, even though they would hypocritically claim that they 'respect' and 'love' Him. Now the façade is gradually coming to light, and you will not find any Muslim denouncing such 'impious hubris'.

One of my colleagues in the office asked: "If Muslims shamelessly refer to Jesus as a liar, why then do they believe in Him?" It is interesting to note that the enquirer was a recent Christian convert who left Islam after having pondered over such dubious and hypocritic assertions.

All the same, many thanks for yours - very interesting and informative.

@longman83,

longman83:

http://www.inu.net/skeptic/lie.html

babs787, as long as you're baiting Christians with arguments from atheists (see link), how about checking out what these atheists have to say about Islam?

Another confirmation of plagiarism at work! Thanks.