nedostic: @Frosbel,

You got this message spot on. I have posted this same message on facebook and virtually all friends of mine who commented,kicked against it.

I am even flabbergasted that some Christian folks would point to the Parable between Lazarus and the rich man, to illustrate their points!

The truth remains that everlasting hell fire does not mean forever as it is depicted in english. Church traditions have not helped us either not to forget some (mis)translations in the Bible.One of my favorite sites is www.bible.cc,this site gives you varieties of translations with commentaries as well.

If anyone doubts the meaning of everlasting,please check out the meaing of 'AIONS' in greek.

I fully support this doctrine,though its hard to accept but I see this as the truth.

God bless us!

You are on point.

In addition, we understand that the bible talks about two kinds of death, Physical and spiritual.

We all know that physical death(when you go to sleep) means you will cease to exit in this world, however, your spirit/soul is still alive though asleep in anticipation of the final judgement.

In the same vein, spiritual death means annihilation. This is the second and final death. After being cast in the lake of fire, you will burn and be destroyed - everlasting death.

Looking at it again, what is the purpose of eternal torment? Why would God want to keep people burning forever?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72eJeryrQeI&feature=related


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7cplP-g2v8&feature=relmfu

Tgirl4real: Looking at it again, what is the purpose of eternal torment? Why would God want to keep people forever?

Ask them for me oooo.

In their opinion God is angry forever which is not at all biblical.

Frosbel, I wasn't quite laughing at you, my brother. I was laughing because you did exactly what I expected. I'm really sorry. It's just that I don't mask myself even on online forums where you can be anything you please.

If you please, let me say that this is just one more pillar down for you. Soon, you'll pull up all the roots and be left with nothing. But if you truly belong in the House, Father will not let you come to that.

I didn't come to make an argument. I came to answer your question: "If eternal torment is true, then where is this plain teaching in the Tenach?"

Anyway, I think that your definition of the word, everlasting, is untenable. For instance, The A.U.P.-HARRAP'S Standard Learner's English Dictionary defines the word as "going on for ever". That doesn't agree with the air of termination that you associate with the notion of finality. I agree that everlasting speaks of finality, but in the sense of irreversibility rather than termination. I agree with that because it allows agreement with the whole of the New Testament and with the spirit of the Tenach.

Ihedinobi: Frosbel, I wasn't quite laughing at you, my brother. I was laughing because you did exactly what I expected. I'm really sorry. It's just that I don't mask myself even on online forums where you can be anything you please.

If you please, let me say that this is just one more pillar down for you. Soon, you'll pull up all the roots and be left with nothing. But if you truly belong in the House, Father will not let you come to that.

I didn't come to make an argument. I came to answer your question: "If eternal torment is true, then where is this plain teaching in the Tenach?"

Anyway, I think that your definition of the word, everlasting, is untenable. For instance, The A.U.P.-HARRAP'S Standard Learner's English Dictionary defines the word as "going on for ever". That doesn't agree with the air of termination that you associate with the notion of finality. I agree that everlasting speaks of finality, but in the sense of irreversibility rather than termination. I agree with that because it allows agreement with the whole of the New Testament and with the spirit of the Tenach.

You have come to this conclusion without addressing scripture and arrogantly skipping over all the points I made.

Anyway your opinion.

Besides what is the point of eternal torture. Try and address some of the points raised.

John 3:16

New International Version (NIV)

16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Saved = Eternal Life
Unsaved = Perish

We all know what eternal life signifies; everlasting life, living forever in the presence of God.

The opposite on the other hand,

To perish: destroyed, cease to exist...

Dictionary Meaning:
per·ish/ˈperiSH/
Verb:

Suffer death, typically in a violent, sudden, or untimely way.
Suffer complete ruin or destruction.
Synonyms:
die - pass away

If in Christ you will live forever, outside of Christ means you will stop existing (no more life sustenance). That is the greatest ill fate that can befall any man. It's as simple as A.B.C

frosbel:


You have come to this conclusion without addressing scripture and arrogantly skipping over all the points I made.

Anyway your opinion.

Besides what is the point of eternal torture. Try and address some of the points raised.

Honestly, I'm unaware of any tangible points in need of address. I wanted only to answer the question that formed the title. But the bolded is a good question. I guess it's the stumbling block in the whole issue, after all, God is a God of Purpose.

I had just now started on a large discourse on Eternity, Immortality, Perpetual Existence and the Second Death when I realized that I'd sound like I was rambling in the face of a "simple" question. So, I stopped and deleted all of it.

Here's my "simple" answer: God's Purpose for hell is the same purpose we have for eliminating waste out of a system. You call it torture, He calls it destruction.

Sorry

Purgatory (Hades)- For the unbelievers, the sinners, the ignorants and others to have a last chance at heaven:
2 Maccabees 12:45

45 And also in that he perceived that there was great favor laid up for those who died godly, it was a holy and good thought. Thereupon he made a reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin

[on 1 Peter 3:19-20]: These spirits in prison, to whom Christ went to preach after his death, were not in heaven, nor yet in the hell of the damned; because heaven is no prison, and Christ did not go to preach to the damned . . . In this prison souls would not be detained unless they were indebted to divine justice, nor would salvation be preached to them unless they were in a state that was capable of receiving salvation.

Evidence of Instant Hell for the Wicked (Gehana):
Luke 16:19-31 "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' "But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.' "He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' "Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.' "'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'"

Evidence of Instant Heaven for the Saints (not regular people, we are talking about Disciples, Abraham and co):


Luke 13:28
In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out.

Revelation 6:9-11

New International Version (NIV)

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,[a] were killed just as they had been.


Evidence that souls will be destroyed after judgement:



Matthew 10:28 ESV

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Tgirl4real:

Saved = Eternal Life
Unsaved = Perish

We all know what eternal life signifies; everlasting life, living forever in the presence of God.

The opposite on the other hand,

To perish: destroyed, cease to exist...

Dictionary Meaning:
per·ish/ˈperiSH/
Verb:

Suffer death, typically in a violent, sudden, or untimely way.
Suffer complete ruin or destruction.
Synonyms:
die - pass away

If in Christ you will live forever, outside of Christ means you will stop existing (no more life sustenance). That is the greatest ill fate that can befall any man. It's as simple as A.B.C

You see, your position is not so simple considering that Daniel 12:2 is part of the Bible not to mention Revelation 7:10 and a bunch of other Scriptures.

Ihedinobi: ]Honestly, I'm unaware of any tangible points in need of address.

So the scriptures mentioned do not deserve your assessment ? Wow !

You need a lesson in humility.

Here's my "simple" answer: God's Purpose for hell is the same purpose we have for eliminating waste out of a system. You call it torture, He calls it destruction.

And destruction in your opinion is everlasting torture,

Ihedinobi:

You see, your position is not so simple considering that Daniel 12:2 is part of the Bible not to mention Revelation 7:10 and a bunch of other Scriptures.

"At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children." - Matthew 11:25

Ihedinobi:

@the bolded: uh huh. Right. That's why you appear to be spoiling for a fight with me on every thread you find me, mm? Yeah, I'm probably deluded.

see this my friend.

Am Only having issues with any that dont follow the bible exclusively.

You seem to 4get the prosperity/riches thread,

we ended that thread quite nicely cus the bible was allowed to be the guide.

Peace

2mch: Sorry

Purgatory (Hades)- For the unbelievers, the sinners, the ignorants and others to have a last chance at heaven:
2 Maccabees 12:45

45 And also in that he perceived that there was great favor laid up for those who died godly, it was a holy and good thought. Thereupon he made a reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin

[on 1 Peter 3:19-20]: These spirits in prison, to whom Christ went to preach after his death, were not in heaven, nor yet in the hell of the damned; because heaven is no prison, and Christ did not go to preach to the damned . . . In this prison souls would not be detained unless they were indebted to divine justice, nor would salvation be preached to them unless they were in a state that was capable of receiving salvation.

Maccabees is not recognised as divinely inspired scripture.

Heaven is God's throne and no one has ascended their except Christ.

"No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man." - John 3:13

There is no such place called the hell of the damned , there is a place called Hades or Sheol which is simply the grave.

Evidence of Instant Hell for the Wicked (Gehana):
Luke 16:19-31 "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' "But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.' "He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' "Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.' "'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'"

This is a Parable not a true story.

Jesus Christ rose from the dead and the Jews did not believe that they will be punished in the lake of fire for rejecting the saviour. This is the whole essence. "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'"

frosbel:

Maccabees is not recognised as divinely inspired scripture.

Heaven is God's throne and no one has ascended their except Christ.

"No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man." - John 3:13

There is no such place called the hell of the damned , there is a place called Hades or Sheol which is simply the grave.




This is a Parable not a true story.

esus Christ rose from the dead and the Jews did not believe that they will be punished in the lake of fire for rejecting the saviour. This is the whole essence. "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'"

You asked that i quote the bible to prove my belief. I did so very well. You are free to believe what you will. I know pentecostals pick and choose what to believe. But in the end, the bible has all the evidence. If you close your eyes and ears to things, does not mean they dont exist. Hades/sheol/purgatory is real. That is the gift the catholic church has given to you penterascals that you refuse to acknowledge. There is a hell for the damned, some souls are simply irreparable and God knows this. How can you say a parable is not a true story, so it means nothing? Most of christ teachings, were they not parables? For you to say this alone, shows that you are definitely very ignorant about being a christian and understanding the bible. Hades awaits you and i as we are sinners. Our God is a merciful and fair God. Though the God of the penterascals is a killer God.

frosbel:


So the scriptures mentioned do not deserve your assessment ? Wow !

You need a lesson in humility.

Abeg o, sorry I hadn't seen them as points to address. I thought you provided them as supports for your position. My approach to your position was to show that it lacked sufficiency. If it did, then the Scriptures used to support it were misused.

And destruction in your opinion is everlasting torture,

Well, if an Eternal Being says "destruction" to me, even though I know what the word means to me, I can't help wondering if my meaning and His are the same. Then when I see things like "the smoke of their torment rose up...forever and ever", I get pretty sure that His concept of destruction and mine differ, at least by eternity.

nedostic: @Frosbel,

You got this message spot on. I have posted this same message on facebook and virtually all friends of mine who commented,kicked against it.

I am even flabbergasted that some Christian folks would point to the Parable between Lazarus and the rich man, to illustrate their points!

The truth remains that everlasting hell fire does not mean forever as it is depicted in english. Church traditions have not helped us either not to forget some (mis)translations in the Bible.One of my favorite sites is www.bible.cc,this site gives you varieties of translations with commentaries as well.

If anyone doubts the meaning of everlasting,please check out the meaing of 'AIONS' in greek.

I fully support this doctrine,though its hard to accept but I see this as the truth.

God bless us!

if someone cites the pareble of lazarus as facts and not pareble, why not ask him to give his reasons for taking it as a fact, Afterall Jesus will not teach without a pareble.

If he says it is fact and literal and not a pareble we have to ACCEPT every thing recorded there as literal.

1. We will have to accept that a drop of water can quench some ones test.

2. We have to accept that a drop of water can travel from heaven down to the fire without evaporating.

3. We have to accept that the hot fire can not dry out a drop of water.

4. That names were mention? But the rich man's name was not mention.

5. We have to accept that Abraham was in heaven even though Jesus had said that no man has ascended into heaven except the son of man who descended.

6. We have to accept that Abraham is the one that decides who enters heaven and who does not.

7. We have to accept that those in fire can see those in heaven.

8. We have to accept that those in fire will live forever and that human dont/wont die as satan had said in the garden of eden. Meaning that God lied.

Etc etc etc.

frosbel:

"At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children." - Matthew 11:25

Yeah, this is very true. I find it very humbling everyday. Everytime that I have arrogated knowledge to myself, I have been shown up for ignorant by the Lord. It was a long period of handling from Him that brought me to being a little child at His feet, whether He is wearing the guise of an immature believer or of a well-grounded one. He has healed my ears and made them able to hear Him in smaller and smaller whispers. He is doing it everyday. And for it, I will sing before His Throne forever.

frosbel:

Thanks.

Also you have to ask eternal torture adherents what the purpose of an eternal hell is ? Is it for punishment or torture ?

When I was in deeperlife many years ago , there is this tract that talks about eternity . It goes like this :

If, again, a grain of sand represents one day, all the grains of sand on the seashore will represent only a small, negligible part of eternity! If a bird went to sharpen its beak once a year at a mountain, when the bird wears out the mountain in this way, only an insignificant part of eternity would have passed. In short, eternity is the lifetime of the never-dying God! And you will live for eternity. You will be alive eternally as God will be alive eternally.

Now this is mind boggling. While it is good news for the saint. God has promised them eternal life and they will live for ever.

However, notice the following contradiction in the same tract.

Every sinner will end up in the infernal hell and every saint will end up in supernal heaven. You will live forever in heaven or hell.

Contrary to the comment that you will live forever in hell, the bible does not support this because the soul that sinneth shall die [/b]not [b]live [/b]forever anywhere for that matter !

In fact this shows the mercy of God, because if Adam had taken of the tree of life he would have lived forever , eternally separated from God. God in his infinite mercy sent Adam away from the garden to prevent this from happening. Oh the rich mercy of God.

We are all mortal and if we sin we will die, we will not live forever.

The fallacy that after zillions of years when poor wretched sinners would have suffered torment , come to plead with God for mercy and he declines their plea is just not in the bible.

The bible says God's anger lasts but a moment while his mercy endures forever. This Catholic doctrine of eternal torture demeans the character of God.

"For his anger lasts only a moment, but his favor lasts a lifetime; weeping may remain for a night, but rejoicing comes in the morning." - [b]Psalm 30:5

Unlike the God of the Muslims and Catholics , our GOD is not a Hitler or some mean person who enjoys the misery of others.


I am not trying to negate the punishment of sinners, it will indeed be painful and final :

1. Punishment according to their deeds
2. Total destruction.
3. Will not be partakers of God's immortality
4. Will not inherit the new heaven and earth.

I mean common is this not punishment enough

The adherents of eternal torment must ignore hundreds of scripture that go against their false doctrine.

Sinners will not be granted the pleasure of eternal life and also will be refused entry into God's paradise. They will be consumed by the fire of God for God is a consuming fire.

But rebels and sinners shall be broken together, and those who forsake the LORD shall be consumed.! - Isaiah 1:28

God is not offering us the free gift of salvation with a gun pressed to our heads.

Sounds more like Islam or Catholicism both religions of coercion where you either have a sword/gun to your head to join the faith or you are threatened with a hell of horrific descriptions.

Thank God we serve Yahweh the God of LOVE.

maybe the muslim and hindu learnt/got there own version or eternal torment/fire from the bible also cus the bible is there holy book.

Lol

the truth is satan is the one that ask that human be put into fire as sacrifice when the Jews went for false worship.

Yahweh condemned such acts and said that such acts of burning people in fire NEVER entered his mind/heart
Jeremiah 7:30 to 31

as usual, Satan the liar is attributing such wicked acts that he is guilty of to Yahweh that says that such had never entered his heart.

All to paint Yahweh wicked and help blind people to Yahweh that says he is love
1john 4:8

such teaching brings dishonour to God almighty.

Such teaching bunch christianity to muslim, to hindu, and many others.

They also teach immortality of the soul and similar teaching.

Is that the new thing that christianity was to go and teach the whole world when that is what they already knew?

Ihedinobi: Please, commenters that agree with the op, could you explain to us how the following passage agrees with the conclusion that there is no everlasting torment? Many thanks. The passage is Daniel 12:2. I'm quoting it below from four translations, the Amplified Bible (AMP) in red, the New International Version (NIV) in blue, the New Living Translation (NLT) in purple and the King James Version (KJV) in green in that order.

And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake: some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt and abhorrence.

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Many of those whose bodies lie dead and buried will rise up, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting disgrace.

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

same with John 5:28:29

the word there should be judgement.

Revelation 20. Explains how it will happened.

truthislight:


same with John 5:28:29

the word there should be judgement.

Revelation 20. Explains how it will happened.

I'm sorry, what word do you mean? And why should it change, if you please?

Ubenedictus: pls take note Yahweh is a God of love and also a God of Justice.
You seem to misunderstand when d bible say "d soul that sinneth shall die", this runs parallel to gen2 "if u eat of the tree you shall die die" but adam didnt die, did he?? He fact he lived longer than today man, he didnt literally die, this shows us that a different thing is mean when the bible is talking about 'death, die' in relation to eternity, that death simply mean a separation from God, the exact thing that happened to adam. The idea that God literally 'kills' the soul is not found in scripture. After the final judgement d gud go to everlasting life, the bad to everlasting contempt that is how my bible explains it.

^^^^
error

God's day = 1000 years. 2peter 3:8 and Psalm 90:4

Adam lived 900 and years not up a 1000years = one day.

So, Adam died the same day.

What with you?

Dont you know that a day of 24 hours is a function of the earth turning around the sun?

While you think that it is night others are in the noon of the day? Is God not seeing all this people?

Who then is in the night and in the day befor God?

Is the sun the means of God calculating of time?

Do you think that God uses this our sun to see and count day and night as man.

Is there night with God?

Why do you tie his calculating of time to our sun?

A dam did not lived up to a day = 1000 years he died the same day.

Infact you are here proofing that it was satan that was saying the truth and that God is the one that lied

your teaching supports satan in all ways

Ihedinobi:

lol @Frosbel. Dude, you too much, I no lie you. Ever-lasting now speaks of finality not lasting for ever. Awesome!

Make I laugh finish. I de come back <laughing my fingers into conf9tk.elitlxqt...> hehehehehe

everlasting dead for sinners.

Everlasting life for rigtheous.

Not everlasting life for both.

@Ihedinobi,

Please meditate on this scripture and state what you simply understood from it. Thanks

“And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death” (Revelation 20:14 MKJV).

frosbel:

Maccabees is not recognised as divinely inspired scripture.

Heaven is God's throne and no one has ascended their except Christ.

"No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven--the Son of Man." - John 3:13

There is no such place called the hell of the damned , there is a place called Hades or Sheol which is simply the grave.




This is a Parable not a true story.

Jesus Christ rose from the dead and the Jews did not believe that they will be punished in the lake of fire for rejecting the saviour. This is the whole essence. "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'"

additionally, the pareble shows a change or conditin for those that follows christ and those that refused.

nedostic: @Ihedinobi,

Please meditate on this scripture and state what you simply understood from it. Thanks

“And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death” (Revelation 20:14 MKJV).

That there are two deaths, one greater than the other and the greater one is called the Lake of Fire? That's my simple understanding of that verse in isolation.

nedostic: @Ihedinobi,

Please meditate on this scripture and state what you simply understood from it. Thanks

“And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death” (Revelation 20:14 MKJV).

The actual translation is Hades which means the grave where the dead are. The KJV translated Hades or the grave most times into Hell.

ᾅδης, 'hades' meaning 'Hades' or 'the grave' (Strong's 86). It gives every verse where the word "hades" appears in the New Testament.

The NIV is a more accurate version.

"Then[u] death and Hades[/u] were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death"- Revelation 20:14

Ihedinobi:

Abeg o, sorry I hadn't seen them as points to address. I thought you provided them as supports for your position. My approach to your position was to show that it lacked sufficiency. If it did, then the Scriptures used to support it were misused.



Well, if an Eternal Being says "destruction" to me, even though I know what the word means to me, I can't help wondering if my meaning and His are the same. Then when I see things like "the smoke of their torment rose up...forever and ever", I get pretty sure that His concept of destruction and mine differ, at least by eternity.

since you did not understand what fire means how will you understand what the smoke means.

Sodom and Gomorah is still burning up to this day i suppose?

The smoke is use for emphasis that there dead is for ever and ever.

Meaning that there dead there will never be a resurectionn.

Ubenedictus: sorry friend, but the gravity of a sin is also measure by whom is offended. When i beat up a guy in my street called ijawkid, he could sue me for assault and battery, when i throw stones or beatup GBJ, im charge with teason. If someone takes from his neighbor he is charged for stealing when you steal the coat of arms in d national assembly (i have forgotten it name) you would also face charges of teasons, mind you the jail terms arent the same. When i offend the wicked old man in my village many may say to the old man "serves u right" if i play the same prank with my parents, everyone would say to me "you are a disrespectful spoilt child". But when i offend one who is infinite goodness, love, mercy etc my sin is no longer finite, by the fact that i offended infinite goodnes and infinite justice, my sins becomes infinite and so my punishment. So my friend it would be stupid to call a willful sin finite.

Now I ask u the ultimate question.....

How would a God of Justice sentence our 1st parents who put the whole of humankind into this dillema we are in to death (destruction),then we the offsprings to literal eternal or everlasting torment in fire?? Where is the justice mr ubenidictus........??

The thought of fire roasting persons for all eternity was never taught amongst 1st century christians who already knew how God dealt with wickedness in the past(noahs day and sodom $ gomorrah).........

This doctrine of the literal burning of sinners for all eternity for finite sins they commited had a pagan origin..............

What sin can be greater than the one adam and eve commited??what sin can be greater than the sin satan has commited??

Satans fate ends up in the ""lake of fire"".......which means second death.........""DEATH"" death without ressurection......total destruction and annihilation.........

Satan would die and never to be heard of....

If satan would be living forever along with his co-horts in a fiery furnace,then is the gift of everlasting life meant for the righteous alone??

Frosbel has asked that question ,but no answer.....

The gift God gives is everlasting life...........

If people are going to literally live forever in hell fire then infact its a blessing to them.....

Ihedinobi:

I'm sorry, what word do you mean? And why should it change, if you please?

John 5:28,29 is what revelation is explaining.

Read revelation 20:4

so, all the dead that will be resurrected some will be for judgement

also, why resurect them if they were alife some where?

Afteral according to you the soul is immortal.

So, if they were not alife some were and needed resurrection why will there dying a scorn time as in the second death now mean that they are some were if they were no where in the first death.

The truth is, unlike the first dead that all will come back to life this second dead there is no coming back and to show the difference the bible consistently use fire to show or depict a death that there will be no resurrection back.

So, death means a state of non existance
ecclesiates 9:5,6,10

The way u hell fire adherents view God is exactly the way the nigerian legal system can be viewed.....

In nigeria as we know when u steal public funds that run into billions u go scot free....infact u are celebrated and even given the space to steal more.....the penalty is never commensurate to the corrupt action carried out by the politician.....

But when some1 on the street steals bread or one's cell phone,that poor thief is burnt to death........

What do I mean??

If adam,eve and satan the originators of the human ""wahala"" would face the penalty of everlasting death,why shuld we the offsprings of our 1st parents burn continously,for all eternity in a furnace or where ever it is fire burns (I just don't actually know when hell fire was created and also the venue)...........??

Is that justice??

See let me tell y'all.....

It is either one gains everlasting life or dies without d hope of ressurection....

The opposite of everlasting life is total death....

No 2 ways about it

For those who believe the Bible as the innerant Word of God, here are:


SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT FOR TOTAL ANNIHILATION, NO ETERNAL TORTURE—

There are numerous scriptures that seem to clearly indicate that there is no eternal life for the wicked (not even in Hell). Here are quite a few that I found from the PC Study Bible after doing a search for the words "eternal life" in the concordance. These references are in Biblical order, and each is from the New American Standard Bible (Updated Edition) unless otherwise stated.

Matt 19:16—"And someone came to Him and said, 'Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?'"

This man spoke of obtaining eternal life. It wasn't as if he already possessed it. Preachers today would probably say to him "Son, you already have eternal life; it's just a matter of where you will spend it." But Jesus never said that.

Matt 19:29-30—"And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name's sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life."

They will inherit eternal life. This indicates that not everyone has it already.

Matt 25:46—"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

This verse admittedly uses the phrase "eternal punishment," but it is juxtaposed against the phrase "eternal life." Death by annihilation in the Lake of Fire could certainly be called "eternal punishment" because it is eternal in its consequences. Death on earth is only temporal because everyone will be raised again at the resurrection. Death in the Lake of Fire, however, is eternal: there is no reversing it and no coming back from it. If Jesus meant for the punishment to last eternally, he probably wouldn't have contrasted it with the phrase "eternal life" which is clearly meant only for believers. If Jesus had intended what most churches believe he did with this verse, he should have said, "Both the righteous and the unrighteous will go away to eternal life, but the unrighteous will spend it being tortured while the righteous spend theirs in paradise."

John 3:16—"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

This is the most quoted verse in the Bible and also one of the clearest accounts on the annihilation of the wicked. "...Whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." John didn't write that "...whoever believes in Him shall not have everlasting life in torment, but rather have everlasting life in Heaven." The way most churches interpret this, they mentally replace the very clear word "perish" with something that means nearly the opposite: "never perish."

John 3:36—"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 4:14—"...but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."

John 5:24—"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

Once again, the words "eternal life" and "life" are associated strictly with the righteous. The word "death" is reserved for the unrighteous, who will not go to Heaven. It takes a good bit of theological gymnastics to continually reinterpret these divinely inspired Words of God to mean the exact opposite of their natural meanings. Since when does "death" mean "eternal life away from God"? If John intended to say that, he should have used almost any other word instead of "death."

John 6:40—"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47—"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life."

John 6:54—"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:68—"and Simon Peter answered Him, 'Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.'"

John 10:28—"and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand."

Rom 5:21—"so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Rom 6:23—"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

This is another very popular verse which is quite clear in its teaching. "The wages of sin is death ([color=#990000]not eternal life in torture), but the gift of God is eternal life..."[/color]

Gal 6:8—"For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life."

Once again, "eternal life" is from the Spirit and "corruption" is reaped from the flesh.

Titus 3:7—"so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life."

1 John 3:15—"Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."

No murderer has eternal life abiding in him. Most Christians claim that all people, saved and unsaved, have eternal life abiding in them, but this is certainly not what the scriptures teach.

1 John 5:11—"And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son."

Eternal life is only in God's son. The unrighteous do not have the gift of eternal life.

All of the above scriptures were reached in a search for the words "eternal life" in the PC Study Bible. The search actually returned 42 occurrences of the phrase in the NASU version of the Bible. I did not incorporate every single verse because many were essentially repeats of verses I did include (for instance, some of the Gospels record virtually the same teachings of Jesus) and a few others were slightly less clear. However, in the entire Bible, there is not a single verse that records anything to the affect that "everyone has eternal life; it's only a matter of where each will spend it." Yet this is what most of the church today believes.

The same can be said of words like "immortality." This word appears five times in the Bible, and in each one, it is said only of God or of the righteous.

Rom 2:6-7—"[God] will render to each person according to his deeds: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life..."

1 Cor 15:53—"For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality."

1 Tim 6:15-16—"He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone possesses immortality..."

Contrary, to popular opinion, the Bible never says that all people are born with an immortal soul. It says instead that only God has immortality, and He blesses whom He chooses with the gift of eternal life. The concept of the immortal soul is nowhere found in the Bible. According to Edward Fudge, William Robert West, and others, the belief is of pagan origin (accredited to many ancient teachers, especially Plato), and it worked itself into Christian theology by way of many of our "church forefathers," who knew more of the teachings of Plato than they did of the teachings of Christ and were only partly converted.



I will strongly advise you to visit
http://jeremyandchristine.com/articles/eternal.php
for more on the scriptural teachings on this topic (that is, for bible believers) it even contains an audio mp3 teaching this biblical truth.

cheers, everyone. believers and unbelievers alike.