Nairaland Notorious \gay Davidylan aka Moyinoluwa,

Your stinkass just likes my bashing. goat when will you get it through your bald head to STOP replying my posts,. Your ass isnt wanted.NOW get over Islander and move on.

You stink bat, Fuckard like you. All you do is follow a certain male Nlder around ( do you need help coming out of your closet?) I can help you.

Yes I am at liberty to bash the USA, you see I can return home anytime and continue living in luxury. Unlike your poor ass. Mosquitoes will eat your " black" ass alive.

Yes let me bash USA, the same way you bash Muslims, The same Muslims whose house you and your "doctor" mother and siblings lived in for years,

You scum, slimey pig,

Now get back in your kernel, I am having a discussion with civilsed humans, Not you Sugar daddy,

I-man:

ICase closed t[b] guess 3 years of studying in a Cuban University,as part of some Cuban Govt programme, makes one the definitive expert on the views of 12 million Cubans.[/b]hen.

This is absolutely stunning. Isn't the US perfectly entitled to determine who it can have have economic relations with? If the US decides not to trade with Cuba,why should any one blame the US for Cuba's current problems? If I decide not to trade with a person,the person has no business attacking me for his poverty.

This misses a larger issue.How many nations run on a communist economic model were successful? None,even Cuba's benefactor,Soviet Union,collapsed.Cuba's problem lies with its adoption of a model proven to be a failure throughout the world.I know economic illiterates will point to China but if you think China's economic model is still communist,you need enlightenment!

Alternatively,we can lick the asses of Commies Its better to lick the ass of a successful system than to lick one of a known failure.

The irony is that most of the reports you get in the West about Cuba are actually sympathetic to Castro.

The simple issue is-between a communist dictator who has held on to power since 1959 and can't provide his people a world class standard of living,on one hand,and a free market democracy which we all flock to,lining up like desperate people applying for a visa,I know which one is much preferable.

We can do all the paeans to Castro we like but nobody,including many Cubans,wants to live in a dictatorship that offers little economic opportunity and even lesser civil liberties protection.

subject to correction, Show me where did i even imply that?

My point is that the state of the cuban economy is directly related to the embargo that the US placed on the country. Transportation is one of the major issues affecting Cubans. Getting from point A to B is a hassle. Why? the cars there were manufactured before 1959( american cars) and since there is no way of getting equipment in, then it created a problem.

Cubans are very intelligent and skillful people. So dispite of the embargo they have been able to fend for themselves. Its high time the US realises that the embargo is only hurting the citizens, not Fidel and lift it, for peace sake

No one is saying Fidel is a God. However, I repect and admire his stance against the USA. They need to know that they cannor run every body's show. I believe when the time for him to leave he will. Until such time, let him show Bush and his crew that size has nothing to do with it,

Islander:

1.  My mention of asslickers was aimed at immigrants who have migrated to the west and now refuse to admit anything the west even if it is blatantly wrong.

2. I am not Nigerian.

3. Unlike many band wagon riders on this forum, I do my own research.  pul, ease, 90% of imports to Cuba are from Russia, China and Canada.  Yes recently the USA has allowed a products in, but it is nothing to go kolomental about. 

PS> Reading something in the newspaper, viewing it on TV and freaking living it are so different, As we say in the islands "tek yo 2 eyes an sleep"

I am glad we have established two things here. You know that the USA is not the only country actually involved in trading goods and services with Cuba as we speak and the USA is doing it's share. So why then do you have this idea that the USA should be Cuba's saviour in this?? @Islander. If there are over 100 other countries that Cuba could do business with and many of them are doing their share, why do you place the burden of the situation in cuba on USA and not one the cuban system itself??

Again, I will use Nigeria as an example to help you see what I see you doing. Nigeria supplies about 25% of the oil used in the USA, majority of the people in Nigeria are living in miserable situations down there. Why would anyone have cause to blame the USA for the situation in Nigeria when 1) Nigeria is not America neither is it an extension of the USA. 2) Nigerians have their own leaders, laws and system to work for them ??

Islander:

subject to correction, Show me where did i even imply that?

My point is that the state of the cuban economy is directly related to the embargo that the US placed on the country. Transportation is one of the major issues affecting Cubans. Getting from point A to B is a hassle. Why? the cars there were manufactured before 1959( american cars) and since there is no way of getting equipment in, then it created a problem.

Cubans are very intelligent and skillful people. So dispite of the embargo they have been able to fend for themselves. Its high time the US realises that the embargo is only hurting the citizens, not Fidel and lift it, for peace sake
No one is saying Fidel is a God. However, I repect and admire his stance against the USA. They need to know that they cannor run every body's show. I believe when the time for him to leave he will. Until such time, let him show Bush and his crew that size has nothing to do with it,

Are you saying that Cuba can not get Cars and machinary from other countries except the USA @Islander. I understand it is your right to bash and I will not deny you that but is it possible to bash reasonably?? Why is the state of transportation in Cuba the USA's problem when even in the USA over 50% of the machines used here are made in other countries that Cuba itself does business with??

Respecting and admiring the man is one thing but at what cost is this?? He has continually blamed the USA for this and that and has neglected to look everywhere else for solutions to the problems his own people are facing and providing their needs. I mean please think about this in the most humane way possible. I like to use analogies, here is one, I liken the case in cuba to that of the man who has a grudge against his neighbour. The neighbour does not allow his kids go over to this man's house to play and does not allow his neighbour borrow any of his tools. Instead of moving on to focus on other neighbours in his area who are willing to work with him, this man spends his time focusing on the one that does not like him and does not want to have anything to do with him. The man obsesses with this neighbour and neglects his own family in the process. Instead of providing for his wife and children by purchasing goods and services from the other neighbours who are willing, he continually rants and raves about how everything is the one neighbours fault and on and on he continues, two of his kids die, yet he continues to blame this one neighbour, his wife leaves him and he continues to blame the one neighbour, yet never looking at self to see what he may not be doing right.

Again, I ask you @Islander. If Cuba is a Nation with it's own laws and people, and so many other countries willing to trade with it and what not, why is the state of things in the country a USA issue??

subject to correction, Show me where did i even imply that?

Here:

Three years among the Cuba people and hearing their side of the story has really given me a new leash on what I was originally fed

3 years University study in Cuba,the Cuban Govt never allows foreigners to access the full depth of Cuban public opinion,wouldn't undermine the validity of the criticisms of Castro's regime.

I appreciate that there are 2 sides to every story and some of the demonisation of Castro is unfounded.Nevertheless,the regime remains a despotic regime that continually fails to respect many basic freedoms of its inhabitants who,unlike you,cannot just pick their bags and leave the country.

Why do many Cubans have to risk their lives to come to the US?-because the Cuban Govt tries to stop many from leaving.Can you imagine if the Vincentian or Nigerian Govt stopped people from leaving with the result that many have to risk their lives just to exercise a basic freedom,freedom of movement.Remember,its not the American embassy visa restrictions that forces Cubans to undertake life-risking journeys,it is the Cuban Govt that stops its own people from leaving.We won't accept that in our countries,why accept it for others?

My point is that the state of the cuban economy is directly related to the embargo that the US placed on the country. Transportation is one of the major issues affecting Cubans. Getting from point A to B is a hassle. Why? the cars there were manufactured before 1959( american cars) and since there is no way of getting equipment in, then it created a problem.

You misunderstand the essence of the embargo-in simple terms-the US has refused to trade with Cuba.If I refuse to trade with you,I'm not responsible for your poverty.Cuba is free to trade and does trade with other nations on the planet.There is no Naval blockade that stops them importing or exporting their goods.They can buy or sell easily to any other nation,the US simply says,you are not going to do that with us.

Once again I ask,isn't the US fully entitled to determine who and how it conduct its trade relations.Remember,the embargo was passed as a result of Cuba's policy restrictions on US businesses.So Cuba can conduct whatever economic/trade policies it deems fit but the US can't?

Given that Cuba operates a communist economic model and given that all other nations operating same model have been proven failures,what are the chances that Cuba would have been an exception to the rule sans the US embargo excuse? Are Cubans any more intelligent or skillful than Russians,East Germans,North Koreans,Hungarians,Poles,Bulgarians,Yugoslavs,Czechs,e.t.c-all who operated a similar model and all who ended as failures.The difference with Cuba is that they didn't have the US embargo excuse to deploy every time their economic misery is mentioned.

No one is saying Fidel is a God. However, I repect and admire his stance against the USA. They need to know that they cannor run every body's show. I believe when the time for him to leave he will. Until such time, let him show Bush and his crew that size has nothing to do with it,

You can admire a particular stance without extending praise to the person adopting the said stance.When the time comes for him to leave?He is almost dead,hasn't such time arrived since 1959? You mean that in 49 years in power,the time for him to leave hasn't yet arrived?

For one person to hold on to power for 49 years is an insult to the intelligence of the Cuban people.Are they saying no one amongst the 12 million Cubans is capable of doing what he is doing?No one of will accept,in our own nation,having a leader who stays in power for 5 decades,not even 2 decades,yet we find no problem in accepting same for others.

I guess that is the difference between staying briefly at the pleasure of the Cuban Govt and having to live in that country as an ordinary citizen with little say on how the Govt determines your destiny.

Kobojunkie:

I am glad we have established two things here. You know that the USA is not the only country actually involved in trading goods and services with Cuba as we speak and the USA is doing it's share. So why then do you have this idea that the USA should be Cuba's saviour in this?? @Islander. If there are over 100 other countries that Cuba could do business with and many of them are doing their share, why do you place the burden of the situation in cuba on USA and not one the cuban system itself??

Again, I will use Nigeria as an example to help you see what I see you doing. Nigeria supplies about 25% of the oil used in the USA, majority of the people in Nigeria are living in miserable situations down there. Why would anyone have cause to blame the USA for the situation in Nigeria when 1) Nigeria is not America neither is it an extension of the USA. 2) Nigerians have their own leaders, laws and system to work for them ??

Ok, now I am sure you are aware of what Cuba used to be like before 1959.  It was next in  line to be the next Puerto Rico.  In short it was the USA stomping ground.  The USA was responsible for aiding Fidel in ousting Batista and his regime with the sole intention of snatching  power from Fidel after him and Che and crew would have already done their dirty job. ( sounds familiar?)


Yes there are other countries capable of offering help to Castro, but why should they when the USA was the one who had been "running" the show there.  

When you visit Havana( nueve Habana) if you aren't careful you may think you on the upper East or West sides of Manhattan.  The USA was gradually remaking Cuba into little USA.  

My point, they started it all, so why not finish it.  Has Fidel done things that he shouldnt have? hell yes. However, I will not stand by and see people (most of whom are just vomitting the poison the USA has fed them) bash a man who deserves some respect

The USA tried to turn the other Caribbean Islands away from Cuba. yet when we needed scholarships to study they denied us yet offered them to Middle easterners, who interm has become nothing but thorns in their flesh.  Castro on the other hand opened up his universities to Islanders to study FREE of cost.  

I ( and many West Indians) are NOT prepare to throw out the baby with the bath water, lo siento senor,

@I man
couldnt quote(lappy acitng up)
Anyway, to answer your questions. Again it is as a direct result of the embargo why Cuba is in such a state. Now you are forgetting here that before 1945 the USA was more less Cuba's "papa". So when they integrated that embargo it drastically hampered the economy. What made it even more devastating was that the USA tried to pressure countries like Canada and England from offering aid to the Cuba.

Look growing up as I child in the islands, there was so much propoganda about Fidel that I hated with man with a passion. Look at the invasion of Grenada. The USA lied about their students at St. Georges' Medical school being threatened. When CNN interviewed them they declined. within 12 mins that portion was edited.

The truth is the USA has its evil side and the sooner people start accepting this the better. If we continue to sing their praises even when they are off key the unequalities of this world would continue,

Try as I might to rationalise the necessity of restricting the movement of his people. . .i realise it is a hopeless excercise

Same old senilility being expressed. Perhaps if you faced the issues raised and stopped pandering to your inability to engage your thinking faculties you'd realise that the essence of an argument is not to lower yourself to the deepest crevices of bestiality.
Having a "civilised" debate is not something that is synonymous with you.

Lets have a look at what she calls "civilised" debate:

Islander:

My point is that the state of the cuban economy is directly related to the embargo that the US placed on the country. Transportation is one of the major issues affecting Cubans. Getting from point A to B is a hassle. Why? the cars there were manufactured before 1959( american cars) and since there is no way of getting equipment in, then it created a problem.

Absolute hogwash. There are more Asian cars sold in the US than than US cars . . . have the Japanese and Koreans also placed an embargo on Cuba? Why cant they go import Toyota's if Ford is not allowed to export her cars to Cuba? What of German cars, French, Italia cars? All those countries have embargoes on the Cubans?

I-man said put it best, to blame the state of Cuba's economy on US embargoes is to expose the fact that you know nothing about what you are actively debating. You can spend 30 yrs "studying" in Cuba and remain as ignorant as you went in.

Islander:

Cubans are very intelligent and skillful people. So dispite of the embargo they have been able to fend for themselves. Its high time the US realises that the embargo is only hurting the citizens, not Fidel and lift it, for peace sake

Again more hogwash. The US has every right to determine which nation it has trade relations with. Should the US also start trading with Hamas because Palestinians in Gaza are dying?

Islander:

No one is saying Fidel is a God. However, I repect and admire his stance against the USA. They need to know that they cannor run every body's show. I believe when the time for him to leave he will. Until such time, let him show Bush and his crew that size has nothing to do with it,

What is this "stance" against the US? Just like the ambigous "foreign policies" that the arabs give as an excuse for carrying out suicide bombings, it is clear you have no idea what you are talking about.

Continue having a "civilised" debate.

Islander:

Ok, now I am sure you are aware of what Cuba used to be like before 1959.  It was next in  line to be the next Puerto Rico.  In short it was the USA stomping ground.  The USA was responsible for aiding Fidel in ousting Batista and his regime with the sole intention of snatching  power from Fidel after him and Che and crew would have already done their dirty job. ( sounds familiar?)


Yes there are other countries capable of offering help to Castro, but why should they when the USA was the one who had been "running" the show there.  

When you visit Havana( nueve Habana) if you aren't careful you may think you on the upper East or West sides of Manhattan.  The USA was gradually remaking Cuba into little USA.  

My point, they started it all, so why not finish it.  Has Fidel done things that he shouldnt have? hell yes. However, I will not stand by and see people (most of whom are just vomitting the poison the USA has fed them) bash a man who deserves some respect

The USA tried to turn the other Caribbean Islands away from Cuba. yet when we needed scholarships to study they denied us yet offered them to Middle easterners, who interm has become nothing but thorns in their flesh.  Castro on the other hand opened up his universities to Islanders to study FREE of cost.  

I ( and many West Indians) are NOT prepare to throw out the baby with the bath water, lo siento senor,

We are not in 1957. We are in the year 2008, over 50 years now since 1957. The world has moved on to a point where the USA does not control it all, has not for almost 50 years now. The Embargo was not and never was on the rest of the world not doing business with CUBA but on USA not doing business with Cuba. Cuba can always get cars and what nots from other countries that america itself gets the same from.


The USA is NOT, get it, NOT obligated to finish anything in CUBA. The Usa has a right to give scholarships to whomever it chooses to. Heck even those of us living in the USA do not get Scholarships why then do you think you MUST get it. Remember, that money happens to come from the pockets of people like me, yet I do not get any scholarship money myself.
 
Please, please please, BASH REASONABLY,  Have solid reasons please. Cause I almost get this picture that you do not realize the money comes from the pockets of individual americans in this. I tried to attend an island medical school myself and I NEVER GOT SCHOLARSHIP MONEY OF ANY KIND MYSELF. Are you seriously trying to tell me that you are miffed at the USA for not giving you scholarship money, so when CUBA gives it means USA is evil?? Please find reason.

Islander:

Yes there are other countries capable of offering help to Castro, but why should they when the USA was the one who had been "running" the show there.

Yet more garbage. The US has trade bans on Iran YET Russia is helping her develop nuclear facilities. The French helped Saddam with a nuclear weapons programme at about the same time the US had embargoes on Iraq.
So what really is the point here?

Islander:

When you visit Havana( nueve Habana) if you aren't careful you may think you on the upper East or West sides of Manhattan. The USA was gradually remaking Cuba into little USA.

If you went to Capetown you'd think you were in the US too, is America trying to remake them into little USA?

Islander:

My point, they started it all, so why not finish it. Has Fidel done things that he shouldnt have? hell yes. However, I will not stand by and see people (most of whom are just vomitting the poison the USA has fed them) bash a man who deserves some respect

No point at all. The US is not under any obligations to help a nation that was actively willing to serve as a missile base for the Soviet Union during the cold war. I guess your history teacher forgot to mention that to you.

Islander:

The USA tried to turn the other Caribbean Islands away from Cuba. yet when we needed scholarships to study they denied us yet offered them to Middle easterners, who interm has become nothing but thorns in their flesh. Castro on the other hand opened up his universities to Islanders to study FREE of cost.

and yet carribean islanders prefer to emigrate to the US than Canada? Stop speaking from both sides of the mouth.

Kobojunkie:


We are not in 1957. We are in the year 2008, over 50 years now since 1957. The world has moved on to a point where the USA does not control it all, has not for almost 50 years now. The Embargo was not and never was on the rest of the world not doing business with CUBA but on USA not doing business with Cuba. Cuba can always get cars and what nots from other countries that america itself gets the same from.


The USA is NOT, get it, NOT obligated to finish anything in CUBA. The Usa has a right to give scholarships to whomever it chooses to. Heck even those of us living in the USA do not get Scholarships why then do you think you MUST get it. Remember, that money happens to come from the pockets of people like me, yet I do not get any scholarship money myself.
 
Please, please please, BASH REASONABLY,  Have solid reasons please. Cause I almost get this picture that you do not realize the money comes from the pockets of individual americans in this. I tried to attend an island medical school myself and I NEVER GOT SCHOLARSHIP MONEY OF ANY KIND MYSELF. Are you seriously trying to tell me that you are miffed at the USA for not giving you scholarship money, so when CUBA gives it means USA is evil?? Please find reason.

1. we are at this very said discussion due to what the USA started before 1957, so that answers my next point.  yes they are obligated to CUBA. so tell me, when a man pregnants a lady he is not entitled to his responsiblilites?  

2. Don't you dare insult me.  I work my ass off to pay my tuition and so too did my sister and my brother. My mentioning of the scholarship scenario was jus to highlight another of the USA's many flaws,

Listen you can preach John Paul and speak in tongues, It is what it is, The USA needs to repent and get baptized, And no 'bashing". we are having a civil discussion.

@ Islander,
lol

girl please take it easy now.
its 2008 oh
if not for anything, for ma sake abeg.
Let the feud btw u and david die now

I will send u all the perfume u want. . .just email me ur info

@david,
easy now
Happy new year sweetie. . .
abeg let peace reign

hahahaha  . . . see the above as an example of a CIVILISED discussion. Thanks for showing us.
As for anyone inviting me here . . . i dont remember you owning this site neither is this topic reserved for you or anyone else. infact you are not the thread author.
As for not replying your posts . . . basically i am not, merely pointing out the fact that you cant, on the basis of 3 yrs "study" in Cuba, come over here and pretend that you are intelligent. Stick to the forum games section where minimal cerebral effort is required.
As for exchanging "ideas, facts" . . . it is clear you dont have any.

OMG!!!! YOU TWO AGAIN?

my hypothesis proven : this is attraction at work

Busta. don't mind them jo

@ Busta, happy new yr sweetie. Dont bother your pretty head, 2008 is not a yr i intend to bow to the brainless intimidation of people without moral scrupples and devoid of character.

This is not feud as it takes 2 to feud. This is merely the rantings of one with deep emotional problems. I will at once return to the topic at hand. Rabid dogs are free to continue weeping profusely.

@ Toyin

Help me beg them now

davidylan:

hahahaha  . . . see the above as an example of a CIVILISED discussion. Thanks for showing us.
As for anyone inviting me here . . . i don't remember you owning this site neither is this topic reserved for you or anyone else. infact you are not the thread author.
As for not replying your posts . . . basically i am not, merely pointing out the fact that you can't, on the basis of 3 years "study" in Cuba, come over here and pretend that you are intelligent. Stick to the forum games section where minimal cerebral effort is required.
As for exchanging "ideas, facts" . . . it is clear you don't have any.

David you are known for being NL ranter. All you do is rant like a goat on heat making no sense.  Now bat how the f.cuk did South Africa come into play?

Asshole, Koko. Iman and myself are discussing Cuba. Did the USA invade South Africa?  you asshole you kept going around NL asking  for my trouble. go weep and mend your broken heart. You aren't the first but I am beginnig  to think you were the last, Now you ugly bat, stick to Romance, and keep posting those hedious pics of yours in an attempt to "snatch" a babe, BTW, The chic you were flashing your pix for in Dating said she almost puked when she saw you. So now you believe me? your ass is too ugly for any sensible human to even touch,



@Busta,
, Don;t worry I am good, Just dealing with my stalker, He just cant seem to get over me, too bad I dont carry ugliness around.

@ davidylan,

Please ease up on this war. I remember you initiated a peace process between me and Islander. Stop this unwanted bickerings. It is un-called for seriously.

PLZ. . . na, you two stop this fighting. i mean, it's not going to get anywhere

Islander:


1. we are at this very said discussion due to what the USA started before 1957, so that answers my next point.  yes they are obligated to CUBA. so tell me, when a man pregnants a lady he is not entitled to his responsiblilites?  

2. Don't you dare insult me.  I work my ass off to pay my tuition and so too did my sister and my brother. My mentioning of the scholarship scenario was jus to highlight another of the USA's many flaws,

Listen you can preach John Paul and speak in tongues, It is what it is, The USA needs to repent and get baptized, And no 'bashing". we are having a civil discussion.

1)  What agreement ties the USA to this so called responsibility you claim it has to Cuba. I would very much like to see where you came up with that one. It would actually bolster your argument if you came up with any binding agreements made by the USA to cuba on this issue, if it be factual.

2) Notice how you putting the USA on a pedestal in your arguments? USA should do this and that, it is the USA's responsibility to Cuba in this and that , Yet you have yet to view things as they really are?? CUba is a nation with it's own laws and trade policies. why is the USA to bail it out of it's problems?? Are you implying you want the USA to police CUBA now??

3) No where in my post did I insult you, I gave you analogies of every simple kind to get you to see why your argument seems flawed and I still suggest you see reason in this. Cuba is a nation which has so far made it's own decisions and had to deal with the consequences of these decisions. Same as the USA has made decisions and had to deal with the consequences of it's decisions. Why do you place the USA over Cuba and then expect the USA to be the one to repent just cause you can not see that Cuba is responsible for it's own state??

If indeed Guevara was killed by the CIA, it only shows the US is prone to errors and mistakes, and should be made accontable for their own mistakes.

Personally, it is an insult to the Cubans to have Fidel in power for decades now.

Iman, couldnt the same be said about Ghandi?

re: your first comment.

My point is that the state of the cuban economy is directly related to the embargo that the US placed on the country. Transportation is one of the major issues affecting Cubans. Getting from point A to B is a hassle. Why? the cars there were manufactured before 1959( american cars) and since there is no way of getting equipment in, then it created a problem. '

wrong, the US embargo is only partly to blame for the fall of the cuban economy. before and after the embargo, cuba was subsidized generously by the soviet union and presently venezuala. agrarian reforms,nationalization of industries and castro chasing away the casionos and tourism affected cuba more than the embargo.

The USA was responsible for aiding Fidel in ousting Batista and his regime with the sole intention of snatching power from Fidel after him and Che and crew would have already done their dirty job. ( sounds familiar?)

actually the US aided fidel castro, socialists and liberals. fidel castro was meant to start a moderate regime and actually once visited the US. he turned on the US and jails most of his liberal allies that put him in power.

USA is a good country but some of the policies and interference in other country is horrendous. The list goes on and on

MOBUTE sese seko and Charles Taylor are some prime example. The USA aided and funded this lunatics, and once they do not need them any more, they leave them to self destruct. this is why most people are so outrage with the USA policies

Mamajama:

USA is a good country[b] but some of the policies and interference in other country is horrendous[/b]. The list goes on and on

MOBUTE sese seko and Charles Taylor are some prime example. The USA aided and funded this lunatics, and once they do not need them any more, they leave them to self destruct. this is why most people are so outrage with the USA policies

I have something to ask of you @Mamajama. You mentioned Mobute and Charles Taylor. Can you please give us information on the Agreement the USA had with these people that you have there. What exactly was the agreement?? To Support them even when they run off with their own agenda?? @Mamajamma. Last I checked, agreements usually come with conditions and if you do not mind, I would like for you to show us information on these agreements and the conditions of the agreements you laid down there as proof against the USA.

Dude here is a script from

The U.S. government, saw the Soviet activity as a maneuver to spread Communist influence in central Africa. Kasavubu, riled by the Soviet arrival, dismissed Lumumba in an act of dubious legality. An outraged Lumumba attempted to depose Kasavubu, to no effect. Both Lumumba and Kasavubu then ordered Mobutu to arrest the other. As army chief of staff, Mobutu came under great pressure from multiple sources. The embassies of Western nations, who were helping to pay the salaries of his rebellious soldiers, as well as Kasavubu, the student and his own subordinates favored getting rid of the Soviet presence. On September 14, 1960, Mobutu took control,[8] putting Lumumba under house arrest for the second time and keeping Kasavubu as President.[9]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobutu_Sese_Seko

read about Mobutu and tell me what you think. where did he get his weapon and money from?

Che was killed in Boliviar by the Army and not by CIA. Even he was formenting trouble in Congo-Kinshasa and Boliviar. he was captured by the Bolivian army supported by the CIA.

Mamajama:

Dude here is a script from

The US. government, saw the Soviet activity as a maneuver to spread Communist influence in central Africa. Kasavubu, riled by the Soviet arrival, dismissed Lumumba in an act of dubious legality. An outraged Lumumba attempted to depose Kasavubu, to no effect. Both Lumumba and Kasavubu then ordered Mobutu to arrest the other. As army chief of staff, Mobutu came under great pressure from multiple sources. The embassies of Western nations, who were helping to pay the salaries of his rebellious soldiers, as well as Kasavubu, the student and his own subordinates favored getting rid of the Soviet presence. On September 14, 1960, Mobutu took control,[8] putting Lumumba under house arrest for the second time and keeping Kasavubu as President.[9]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobutu_Sese_Seko

read about Mobutu and tell me what you think. where did he get his weapon and money from?

It does say there in the article that the US was third largest donor of AID to Zaire, next to Belgium and France. I can not say for sure that the man did not use most of that AID money to fund his ideas. Could you please explain yourself in more detail cause I have no clue where you are going with the Mobutu story here.

Mamajama:

USA is a good country but some of the policies and interference in other country is horrendous. The list goes on and on

MOBUTE sese seko and Charles Taylor are some prime example. The USA aided and funded this lunatics, and once they do not need them any more, they leave them to self destruct. this is why most people are so outrage with the USA policies

Thank you very much. Unlike the majority here whom for whatever reasons refused to admit that the US has serious issues regarding the handling other countries welfare.

@Kobojunkie, sorry I couldn't return yesterday. I was in the slammer. This resulted from having to deal with my Internet stalker,whom by the way I have been reported to the US Attorney General's office.
Now back to business. I forgot to mention yesterday that Cuba's situation is NOT the only such. Take Norriego's( not sure of the spelling). How about Saddam? These are just of few of the USA's made dictators. The USA set them up for power with the intention of 'running' their shows. Only to have their plans backfired in their faces.

I am not at all saying that the USA is all bad. The truth is they need to change many of their policies. And I strongly think they should begin with Cuba, moreso the embargo.

Islander:

Thank you very much. Unlike the majority here whom for whatever reasons refused to admit that the US has serious issues regarding the handling other countries welfare.

@Kobojunkie, sorry I couldn't return yesterday. I was in the slammer. This resulted from having to deal with my Internet stalker,whom by the way I have been reported to the US Attorney General's office.
Now back to business. I forgot to mention yesterday that Cuba's situation is NOT the only such. Take Norriego's( not sure of the spelling). How about Saddam? These are just of few of the USA's made dictators. The USA set them up for power with the intention of 'running' their shows. Only to have their plans backfired in their faces.

I am not at all saying that the USA is all bad. The truth is they need to change many of their policies. And I strongly think they should begin with Cuba, moreso the embargo.

To be honest, if you read the link Mamajamma posted you will notice that the USA was not the only country or power backing Mobuto.  I am tired of giving analogies to provide simpler ways of viewing these things. I instead ask again that at least one or two agreements between these two people's/nations to show that the country supports their dictatorship. I am all out of air at this point. From where I stand, I do not place the USA on any pedestal and I see exactly the same issues you claim you see only with the USA, with practically every country on this planet. From Nigeria, to Russia, to India, to Korea, to Pakistan, to Australia, to UK, to Sudan,  etc . What I do not understand is how you can claim not to hold USA on a pedestal high above every other country out there, but still do not see how this pattern exists with every single country on this planet. Sure when it has to do with America, it is blown up and made a bigger deal than when it involves France or belgium.  

About Noriega, read up on the man yourself. Spend some time researching him and notice how the same country turns on them when they go rogue. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Noriega . What do you expect the USA to do in all cases?? Have crystal balls all over to know the future of those they do business with in the present??