@Kobojunkie,
Thanks for the link. Rushing out to work, but promise to get to it as soon as I can and be back. Addios mi amigo, hasta la vista,

@Islander

You have been sounding so sentimental about the whole issue.

I still don't understand how Cuba's abject poverty is the fault of the U.S Rather blame a failed theory.

Why does Cuba not trade with her communist sisters? Why should U.S be blamed and not Russia or China for not saving an ailing sister country.

Most Cuban would rather trek to the U.S than die of Castro's imposed poverty on the Island.

@Nuzo
Yes I am. This issues touches close to home. As a West Indian growing up in the islands I can vividly recalled hating Fidel and everything he stood for all because of the propaganda we were fed by the USA.

Thank God in 1997, when we changed government and the new Prime Minister rallied the OECS( Organisation Of Eastern Caribbean States) to defy the threats made by the US( they had planned to stop exporting our agricultural produces if we made friends with Cuba) and unite with our fellow Cubans.

Seems that my point of the US trading with Cuba is very must mis-understood. The USA had intentions of claiming Cuba for itself just like it did Puerto Rico, thus it had large investments there. They (USA) gave Fidel all he and his men needed to take out Batista and then turned around and abandoned the Cubans when Fidel preventing them from pulling his strings.

Just like a father is responsible for a child when he impregnates its mother, so too is the USA responsible for Cuba. I stand firm in this belief and no one can deter me.

Fidel is no saint. He has done some questionable deeds ( and so too has the leaders of the USA, past, present and those to come) However, the bigger picture here is that the embargo is NOT, let me reiterate NOT hurting Castro, but the poor Cubans.

dayokanu:

I still don't understand how Cuba's abject poverty is the fault of the US Rather blame a failed theory.

Why does Cuba not trade with her communist sisters? Why should US be blamed and not Russia or China for not saving an ailing sister country.

Most Cuban would rather trek to the US than die of Castro's imposed poverty on the Island.

You hit the nail on the head. A lot of people "debate" without bothering to pass their oppinions through the crucible of common sense.
Last we all checked, the US as a sovereign nation, has a right to trade with whichever country it likes.
Germany is the largest economy in Europe, China is an emerging super-power and Japan is the world's second largest economy, Russia is busy building a trans-European gas pipeline and providing Iran with nuclear expertise . . . plenty of trading partners there . . .

Islander:

@Nuzo
Yes I am. This issues touches close to home. As a West Indian growing up in the islands I can vividly recalled hating Fidel and everything he stood for all because of the propaganda we were fed by the USA.

Thank God in 1997, when we changed government and the new Prime Minister rallied the OECS( Organisation Of Eastern Caribbean States) to defy the threats made by the US( they had planned to stop exporting our agricultural produces if we made friends with Cuba) and unite with our fellow Cubans.

Seems that my point of the US trading with Cuba is very must mis-understood. The USA had intentions of claiming Cuba for itself just like it did Puerto Rico, thus it had large investments there. They (USA) gave Fidel all he and his men needed to take out Batista and then turned around and abandoned the Cubans when Fidel preventing them from pulling his strings.

Just like a father is responsible for a child when he impregnates its mother, so too is the USA responsible for Cuba. I stand firm in this belief and no one can deter me.

Fidel is no saint. He has done some questionable deeds ( and so too has the leaders of the USA, past, present and those to come) However, the bigger picture here is that the embargo is NOT, let me reiterate NOT hurting Castro, but the poor Cubans.

How do you know that you are not being fed other side's propaganda now?? You have yourself showed that the embargo has nothing to do with the state cuba and it's people are in by accepting the very fact that cuba can and have been able to trade with the very countries America has been trading with for over 50 years now and you still think Usa is to blame I don't think you are being objective at all in your argument. I believe you have convinced yourself it is easier to blame USA as you are being told to now rather than open your eyes to see things as they really are. Cuba currently owes billions of dollars  in debt to the countries it has been trading with for all these decades, are you sure it is the usa that racked up all that debt in cuba's name?? Please stop already and consult reason in this.

No one can argue that the USA is perfect, infact cuba is just as guilty in much the same way as you can say the USA is guilty but for one to continually blame one side for the problems of another without applying reason is ridiculous. I gave you some analogies to help you understand what you have been doing. Cuba is a nation and hence responsible for the state and welfare of it's people. Why is fidel still in charge if he is not even able to provide those under him with essentials that they need?? The very fact that most cubans risk their lives on a daily basis to get away from the country speaks volumes about how they really feel about his ideas personally, not the ideas of the USA. Can't you at least see that yourself??

Islander:

Fidel is no saint. He has done some questionable deeds ( and so too has the leaders of the USA, past, present and those to come) However, the bigger picture here is that the embargo is NOT, let me reiterate NOT hurting Castro, but the poor Cubans.

That "picture" is of no relevance. Its the same tired old propaganda trotted out by the left . . . Isreali policies are hurting the palestinians in Gaza bla bla bla. If Castro cared so much about these oh so "poor Cubans" why is he not stepping down to allow them conduct normal democratic elections?

@Kobo,
YES! The USA, just like any other nation, has the right to trade with whom ever it so deems fit. However, when the issue at hand involves a nation that was basically built and later patterned by the US I feel it is only right that they take full responsibility.

As I have been preaching from the beginning of my posts, if it were NOT the USA I would have felt the very same way.

Ok Kobo so maybe I was fed Propaganda. Well it was done from both sides I guess. Then again as my mother always said there are 3 sides to a story, My side, your side and the TRUTH!!

If you were to do an extentive research I am postiviely certain more than 70% of the defectors from Cuba would tell you did so NOT out of hatred for my "pally" Fidel but rather due to the economy. Afterall, survival should be of utmost importance.

And I do agree that it is time for Fidel to step down. His health is fading among other things. I however, admire him for standing up to the US and allowing them to have their way as they always do,

PS, Let me divert a bit. I just had to get this in. Here is another of the US's trick they tried to inflict on us. In 1995 they had a few of the Islands PM's signed this document called "The Ship-riders effect" what that did was give them the right to come to islands at a specific time each year with helicopters and burn our marijuana. According to the USA, they were helping to save our youths from drugs. Laughing my effing ass off. The reason why I love my present PM is because he of what he stands for. When he took over power he kicked their asses off the island and got rid of that document, and the others follow suit. You see, what the US was reallying doing was destroying our potent ganja so that their weakass, home-grown pot would have a market. The US coming to help eradicate drugs in the islands when this country has more addicts than Pastors. LOL.

Anyway I am at work, I will check back periodically.

Kobo, I am waiting for more, keep them coming, yo hear?

Islander let people believe what ever they want to believe please. We all know propaganda and lies when we see it. USA has done more damage in some countries that is beyond comprehension.

Why is USA so against Castro and Chavez or even Saddam? Not to save the poor people its all about the oil.

Why cant USA go and stop the violence in Dafur or Kenya if they so much care about the poor?

Islander:

@Kobo,
YES! The USA, just like any other nation, has the right to trade with whom ever it so deems fit. However, when the issue at hand involves a nation that was basically built and later patterned by the US I feel it is only right that they take full responsibility.

Following this logic, should we also blame the UK for most of the countries in Africa that are hell holes now cause of the actions of the many corrupt leaders in charge??

As I have been preaching from the beginning of my posts, if it were NOT the USA I would have felt the very same way.

I seriously doubt this statement you made here cause your argument so far shows a great deal of bias against the USA, it seems.

Ok Kobo so maybe I was fed Propaganda. Well it was done from both sides I guess. Then again as my mother always said there are 3 sides to a story, My side, your side and the TRUTH!!

If you were to do an extentive research I am postiviely certain more than 70% of the defectors from Cuba would tell you did so NOT out of hatred for my "pally" Fidel but rather due to the economy. Afterall, survival should be of utmost importance.

And I do agree that it is time for Fidel to step down. His health is fading among other things. I however, admire him for standing up to the US and allowing them to have their way as they always do,

We are fed propaganda on a daily basis. Be it in your home or at work, we choose to bite or remain unchanged. Just cause you are fed propaganda from one side or another does not make the side whose idea you choose to subscribe to responsible for what you do. It is simply that, you make the choice and are still responsible for your actions.
 
You mention that Fidel should step down and you do not even mention the fact that he ruled over a nation and saw the economy drop to hell with thousands of people fleeing to their death as reason why he should even step down but you mention his health as reason and then you follow it up with statement on how you admire him for standing against the USA during this time, the people have had to suffer every second of the way and you feel this was right punishment for his stand against the USA? I seriously think you should search yourself please. Thousands have had to die for nothing when cuba could have and has actually continued to trade with with the soviet and other communist countries, countries which the USA itself also trades with. I don't think you understand much of the Cuban Economy at all. I would suggest you read up on the economy and maybe you will see what cuba did to itself as against the fanthom effects you blame on the embargo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Cuba
 
This last statement you make here fuels my doubt of your claim that you are not biased in this.

The economy of Cuba is a largely state-controlled, planned economy overseen by the Cuban government, though there remains significant foreign investment and enterprise in Cuba. Most of the means of production are owned and run by the government and most of the labor force is employed by the state. In the year 2000, the public sector employment was 76% and the private sector at 23% compared to the 1981 ratio of 91% to 8%.[1] Capital investment is restricted and requires approval by the government. The Cuban government sets most prices and rations goods to citizens. The present Cuban Minister of Economy and Planning is José Luis Rodríguez García.

Special Period
Main article: Special Period
The Cuban economy is still recovering from a decline in gross domestic product of at least 35 percent between 1989 and 1993 due to the loss of 80 percent of its trading partners and Soviet subsidies. This era was referred to as the "Special Period in Peacetime" later shortened to "Special Period". The government has undertaken several reforms in recent years to stem excess liquidity, increase labour incentives, and alleviate serious shortages of food, consumer goods, and services. To alleviate the economic crisis, the government introduced a few market-oriented reforms including opening to tourism, allowing foreign investment, legalizing the U.S. dollar (although later partially reverted so that the US dollar is no longer accepted in businesses, it remains legal for Cubans to hold the currency), and authorizing self-employment for some 150 occupations. These measures resulted in modest economic growth. The liberalized agricultural markets introduced in October 1994, at which state and private farmers sell above-quota production at free market prices, have broadened legal consumption alternatives and reduced black market prices.

Government efforts to lower subsidies to unprofitable enterprises and to shrink the money supply caused the semi-official exchange rate for the Cuban peso to move from a peak of 120 to the dollar in the summer of 1994 to 21 to the dollar by yearend 1999. Living conditions in 1999 remained well below the 1989 level. New taxes introduced in 1996 have helped drive down the number of self-employed workers from 208,000 in January 1996.

Havana announced in 1995 that GDP declined by 35% during 1989-93, the result of lost Soviet aid and domestic inefficiencies. The drop in GDP apparently halted in 1994, when Cuba reported 0.7% growth, followed by increases of 2.5% in 1995 and 7.8% in 1996. Growth slowed again in 1997 and 1998 to 2.5% and 1.2% respectively. One of the key reasons given was the failure to notice that sugar production had become dramatically uneconomic. Reflecting on the Special period Cuban president Fidel Castro later admitted that many mistakes had been made, “The country had many economists and it is not my intention to criticise them, but I would like to ask why we hadn’t discovered earlier that maintaining our levels of sugar production would be impossible. The Soviet Union had collapsed, oil was costing $40 a barrel, sugar prices were at basement levels, so why did we not rationalize the industry.’’ [2]’’


Recovery

Historical evolution of GDP per capita of Cuba and some other Caribbean countries, from World Population, GDP and Per Capita GDP, 1-2003 AD.Due to the continued growth of tourism, growth began in 1999 with a 6.2% increase in GDP[citation needed]. Growth in recent years has picked up significantly, with a growth in GDP of 11.8% in 2005 according to official Cuban information[citation needed].

Energy production
Due to the reliance on declining Soviet era electricity generators, many areas of Cuba suffered frequent blackouts and brownouts for extended periods, creating additional pressure on society. To counter these problems, the government has put Cuba through "Energy Revolution", which has placed increased emphasis on the efficient use of electrical energy and more efficient,[citation needed] small-power generators linked in a synchronized network. The country has increased the number of solar- and wind-powered generators.[citation needed] Though development was hampered by large-scale damage created by Hurricane Dennis and Hurricane Wilma, which cut Cuba's electricity generation capacity by half in the areas most affected, Cuba now exceeds the government set demand in electricity production. [3] Raul Castro reminded Cubans, in his July 26 speech in 2007, that the Special Period is not yet over. [4] um


Government fiscal policies
After the 1959 Cuban Revolution, citizens were not required to pay a personal income tax (their salaries being regarded as net of any taxes). However, from 1996, the State started to impose income taxes on Cubans earning hard currency, primarily the self-employed.[2]


Tourism


Agriculture
Main article: Agriculture of Cuba
Sugar remains an important part of the Cuban economy with large amounts of land, labour, and other resources dedicated to the industry. At one time, Cuba was the world’s most important sugar producer and exporter. Sugar production in 1989 was over 8 million tons, but fell to about 3.5 million tons in the 1994-95 harvest, one of the lowest on record. As a result of chronic underinvestment and natural disasters, however, Cuba's sugar production has seen a drastic decline. In 2002, more than half of Cuba's sugar mills were shut down. Cuba's most recent sugar harvest of 1.1 million metric tons was its worst in nearly one hundred years, comparable only to those of 1903 and 1904. Prospects for regaining that level of output are poor unless the Cuban Government undertakes substantial reform of the sugar industry, something it has been reluctant to do, since it has become government policy to substantially and deliberately phase out the sugar industry,


Industry

Oil pumps in CubaMore recently Cuba's world-class biotechnology and pharmaceutical industry is gaining in its importance to the economy. It has been claimed that soon it will become Cuba's main source of foreign exchange. Among the products sold internationally are vaccines against various viral and bacterial pathogens, and promising anti-cancer vaccines are undergoing exhaustive clinical trials. Some Cuban scientists, like V. Verez-Bencomo, have been awarded international prizes for their contributions in biotechnology and Sugar Cane. Cuban vaccines are sold, among other countries,in Russia, China, India, Pakistan, and several Latin American countries.


International trade

The Netherlands receive the largest share of Cuban exports (22.8%), 70 to 80% of which through Fondel Finance, a company owned by the Van 't Wout family who have close personal ties with Fidel Castro. Business, however, goes through the ministers.


Foreign investment
Since the Special Period, Cuba has actively courted foreign investment. All would be foreign investors are required to form joint ventures with the Cuban government. The sole exception to this rule are Venezuelans, who are allowed to hold 100% ownership in businesses due to an economic agreement between Cuba and Venezuela. Cuban officials said in early 1998 that there were a total of 332 joint ventures. Many of these are loans or contracts for management, supplies, or services normally not considered equity investment in Western economies. Investors are constrained by the U.S.-Cuban Liberty and Democratic Solidarity Act which provides sanctions for those who "traffic" in property expropriated from U.S. citizens. As of March 1998, 15 executives of three foreign companies have been excluded from entry into the United States.Over a dozen companies have pulled out of Cuba or altered their plans to invest there due to the threat of action under the Libertad Act.


Tobacco plantation, Pinar del RioUS Dollar

In 1993 the Cuban Government made it legal for its people to possess and use the U.S. dollar, nicknamed fulas. From then until 2004, the dollar became a major currency. To capture the hard currency flowing into the island through tourism and remittances - estimated at $500-800 million annually - the government set up state-run "dollar stores" throughout Cuba that sold 'luxury' food, household, and clothing items, compared with basic necessities, which were bought using the Cuban peso. As such, a gap in the standard of living developed between those with access to dollars and those without. Jobs that could earn dollar salaries or tips from foreign businesses and tourists became highly desirable. It was common to meet doctors, engineers, scientists, and other professionals working in restaurants or as taxi drivers.

However, in response to stricter economic sanctions by the US, and because the authorities were pleased with Cuba's economic recovery, the Cuban government decided in October 2004 to remove the American dollar from circulation. In its place, the Cuban convertible peso is now used, which although not internationally traded, has a value pegged to that of the dollar. As a source of additional revenue, a 10% surcharge is levied for conversions from US dollars to the convertible peso; this surcharge does not apply to other currencies, so it acts as an encouragement to tourists to bring currencies like Euros, pounds sterling or Canadian dollars into Cuba. Indeed, an increasing number of areas rich in tourism now also accept Euros directly for many transactions.

I know wiki is not 100% but this should give you an idea of who has been in controlf of cuba and it's economy for all this while , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Cuba

Mamajama:

Islander let people believe what ever they want to believe please. We all know propaganda and lies when we see it. USA has done more damage in some countries that is beyond comprehension.

Why is USA so against Castro and Chavez or even Saddam? Not to save the poor people its all about the oil.

Why can't USA go and stop the violence in Dafur or Kenya if they so much care about the poor?

It is one thing to be biased but at some point you have to at least stop to compare what you carry around with you with facts that exist. When will you do that??

Mamajama:

Islander let people believe what ever they want to believe please. We all know propaganda and lies when we see it. USA has done more damage in some countries that is beyond comprehension.

Why is USA so against Castro and Chavez or even Saddam? Not to save the poor people its all about the oil.

Why can't USA go and stop the violence in Dafur or Kenya if they so much care about the poor?

How much oil does Cuba and Afghanistan have?

US is the only country in the world who is supposed to care for the poor and they are doing that already Most of world aid come from US donor agencies any

natural disaster the US would come forward let Russia too do something for their allies.

If a country is poor its because the US does not want to trade with it it if otherwise US anointed son.

Aid to Rwanda and Uganda for HIV is because of oil too Tsunami is South Asia the US was the major donor why don't those countries refuse the aid

Cuba that can not feed its citizens Have you forgotten Arian Gonzalez sage the boy whose mum would rather die on the Atlantic than go back to in[b]CUBA[/b]tor.

If you fail exam is the U.S If your wife divorces you its the U.S again. This U.S self.

MY dad's (RIP) had a famous quote which goes like this "Education Is NOT common sense" and I have been witnessing this daily on this forum. For the LAST time( and I refuse to repeat myself again) If the USA had not meddled into Cuba's political dilemma, and muddied their hands there would have absolutely be NO need whatsoever to expect a penny from them. Case closed!!!

@Kobojunkie, thanks for the link. I had the opportunity to glance at it( hands are relly full at work right now) A quick note though. On the topic of agriculture, yes Cuba( the larges Island in the entire Caribbean) is very fertile and has vast sugarcane, and tobacco plantations. However, due to the inneficiency of many of its machineries, production has been scaled back. Now remember the vechicles brought to Cuba before the revolution were ALL US made. After the revolution no spare parts etc have since been allowed into the country, thus many are either not working or not working well. Yes they were able to import parts from Germany and RUSSIA. But can you feed "fish" oil to "birds" and expect them to function the same way, or even survive

I made a point a few days ago, which was miscontruded and taken totally out of context( not surprized at all) regarding the infrastruture in Nueve La Habana( New Havana). The reason I did that was drive home the point that The USA was slowly but surely transforming Cuba, from its Spanish outlook to an American one. Now remember as I earlier stated, Fidel, Che et al were to do their dirty work then later cast aside. The USA ONLY retaliated against Castro because of losing everything they had invested in the island, And I do understand their grieviences, although I rfuse to empathise with them. I must however, give them some props, "The dry-foot, Wet-foot" policy. This is just a last minute ditch to offer some solace to the poor Cubans for destroying their lives.

Kobo, you also mentioned whether or not the UK should do likewise. And to that I say a big YES. We are all responsible for our actions. I still hold "grudges" against Europeans for ravaging our islands, exiling the Caribs and Arawaks and indoctrinating us with their beliefs. The truth is the USA and others(unless stopped) will forever continue to blatantly play "God", if we continue to allow them.

PS. Cubans are very appreciative of the large number of European( most Italian) tourists who visit their shores each year. Canadians as well come in large numbers. Their tourist dollar has aided the economy.
Fidel will soon past away, but one thing I know, the USA will forever has blood on its hands.Not only for Cuba, but for all the other countries they have wronged.

Islander:

MY dad's (RIP) had a famous quote which goes like this "Education Is NOT common sense" and I have been witnessing this daily on this forum. For the LAST time( and I refuse to repeat myself again) If the USA had not meddled into Cuba's political dilemma, and muddied their hands there would have absolutely be NO need whatsoever to expect a penny from them. Case closed!!!

Excellent quote, the only problem is you have not applied it to the right person . . . you.
Shouting loudly does not make an incoherent point right.

The US bombed Japan 2ce with nuclear weapons . . . was the US held responsible for the rebuilding of Japan today? How did they end up as the 2nd largest economy in the world and one of the world's largest car and electronics exporters?

Islander:

Now remember the vechicles brought to Cuba before the revolution were ALL US made. After the revolution no spare parts etc have since been allowed into the country, thus many are either not working or not working well. Yes they were able to import parts from Germany and RUSSIA. But can you feed "fish" oil to "birds" and expect them to function the same way, or even survive

Another incoherent piece of babble. Many of the heavy duty machines used by US construction companies are from Asia - Komatsu, Mitsubishi, Toshiba e.t.c.
Yes the cars brought to Cuba during the revolution were US made . . . what has prevented Asian and European cars from being imported into Cuba to replace this cars? Are the Americans themselves still using the cars they produced in the 1950s?
German cars are far stronger than US cars, Asian cars are more fuel efficient . . . to label them as "fish oil" exposes the level of ur ignorance for all the noise you make about education and common sense.
Asian car makers sell more in the US than Ford and co.

The Malaysians who were no better than Nigeria in 1960 are already producing their own cars, the Japanese who went through a US invasion in 1944 are producing theirs . . . what are the Cubans waiting for? Its all the fault of the US.

Islander:

I made a point a few days ago, which was miscontruded and taken totally out of context( not surprized at all) regarding the infrastruture in Nueve La Habana( New Havana). The reason I did that was drive home the point that The USA was slowly but surely transforming Cuba, from its Spanish outlook to an American one.

Does this make sense? Since when did it become the duty of the US to "transform" Cuba?

Islander:

Kobo, you also mentioned whether or not the UK should do likewise. And to that I say a big YES. We are all responsible for our actions. I still hold "grudges" against Europeans for ravaging our islands, exiling the Caribs and Arawaks and indoctrinating us with their beliefs. The truth is the USA and others(unless stopped) will forever continue to blatantly play "God", if we continue to allow them.

More piffle. Were the US, UK and Russia held responsible for the rebuilding of Germany after WWII?
Arabs ravaged, pillaged and destroyed North Africa . . . i hear no one bleating about "responsibility".
It is only blacks who are forever blaming others for their own problems.

The dog just dosnt know when to lay off shit. Davidylan it seems like you are either blind or you just simply cannot recognised when you are being ignored.

Look around the post, from its beginning to now and show me where anyone has paid any attention to any rat tail you have mentioned. Ok, let me spell it out for you goat, YOUR OPINIONS ARE NOT NEEDED, Now go to Religion and curse Allah.

You reminds me of my History Teacher back in Secondary school, Mass amount of Knowledge, just doesn't know how to apply it, when, where nor How, Having said all that, please refrain from quoting or responding to anything I have to say. Kobojunkie, and others are doing an excellent job. Now git,

@Mamajama,
Sorry I just saw your post. I think I may have to take your advice. Seems as though Kobo and crew have been totally brainwashed.( LOl, ) Kobo no offense. I am enjoying the argument,

@Kobo, BTW did you know that when The Mass Exodus of Cuba left after the revolution, most of them were prisoners? Yes! Castro opened his jails and set them free so that they can migrate mostly to Florida. One thing America has NOT taken away from Cubans is their intelligence. They are the best doctors you can find anywhere in the world. And although they are limited in resources they continue to survive on what little they have. You must visit one day and make sure you take a spin on one of their locally made bikes. Your Okadas in Lagos have nothing on them,

VIVE LA REVOLUCCION!!!!!

lol talk of a crass lack of culture.

This is not about Davidylan, an ignorant carribean oaf, my oppinions or being ignored. This is about issues, facts and figures.
This is not about personalities (which unfortunately is the only route left for many with less than half a brain) but about political discourse.

Only empty heads are more concerned about who is being ignored or not.

Did you notice that the vast majority of people have ignored this thread since you bumped into it and it seems you're just struggling to maintain a form of relevance?

Read through my post . . . forget about the poster (i know its hard for illiterates), read through the facts and pick out what you think is wrong there.

And while you are at it pls GROW UP! Adults deal with issues, children are pre-occupied with ad hominems.

RoFLMFSAO, Poor David, ruff. Ruff. Bat( and this is my LAST response to you) The only person to so-called bumped the thread was your partner, LOL, Anyway goat, Take a hint and scram, look around you, as "illiterate" as you claim I am, I am the one being debated NOT your "smart ass" . Oh! One last thing monkey, this "illiterate" island g.al still makes more money and has more than your "eistein" wannabe, Now free up the space so that Kobojunkie and the others can post meaningfully. I am done with you "black-out"

PS, I am too OLD to grow up, LOLOLOLOL,

Islander:

RoFLMFSAO, Poor David, ruff. Ruff. Bat( and this is my LAST response to you) The only person to so-called bumped the thread was your partner, LOL, Anyway goat, Take a hint and scram, look around you, as "illiterate" as you claim I am, I am the one being debated NOT your "smart ass" . Oh! One last thing monkey, this "illiterate" island g.al still makes more money and has more than your "eistein" wannabe, Now free up the space so that Kobojunkie and the others can post meaningfully. I am done with you "black-out"

PS, I am too OLD to grow up, LOLOLOLOL,

even 18yr olds have more class.  shove over for more intelligent people o jare.
Kobojunkie and co cannot be "debating" me . . . we all hold the same view point or didnt they teach the rudiments of "debate" in your high school?
They are "debating" you? More like they are exposing your bias, myopic view point and ignorance . . . i'd say they are schooling you in how not to think.
You have more money than me . . . of course . . . that's the last resort for 10yr olds . . . see my teddy bear is finer than urs!

Walahi i never thot i'd see people this thick in my life.

@Bunmitola, I am so damn fine, still spending my Christmas bonus

@Goat, opps, David Moyinoluwa, I am Lactose intolerant, therefore I stay away from anything diary. Now you are Islander Intolerant, monkey stay away from me.

I am tired explaining to Nlders that I don't know, or Never knew you. But your obvious obsession with me is making me look shady. Now Buju Bantan, get over me na, abeg, Move on, go to Roamnce lots of desperate babes there looking. Go post your pix maybe you will get lucky.

PS, Make sure you walk on the right side of the road in Rochester. Racial profiling is popular in those areas, espcially when your information is logged into the Criminal system, LOl, Anyway Baboon, am out,

Baby T, of course I know it's you. . Please child don't you dare stoop so low. Who is your babe? Don't let me have to place you on my "hate list" you can do a lot better.

Then again you are new here. So you are vunerable. He is a sissy, No one here wants him so he now preys on 18 yr old new comers, LOL,

Bias, Goat called me bias. When all he does is kiss the USA stinkass and anything it does whether right or wrong.

T, by the way did David send you "Another used to be"? It's this song by Joe. LOL, That's one os his lameass pick up lines, Anyway I am not at a computer, but when I get home I will post the link so all can listen. Damn goat. And you missy better lift your standard, LOL

, @Bumintola,
I will bite your ears? . Chemistry from where? Anyway I won't further humiliate Davina, let "shim" be. I did promise earlier to ignore his PMS,

BTW, why were you banned? , And welcome to My world, I am sure I hold the record for the most bans, Like I give a damn,

hehehe  body dey pepper some people.

Islander:

( and this is my LAST response to you)

3 posts later . . . the madness continues. Apparently they think they will be taken seriously by their loud noise making!

Islander:


@Kobo, BTW did you know that when The Mass Exodus of Cuba left after the revolution, most of them were prisoners? Yes! Castro opened his jails and set them free so that they can migrate mostly to Florida. One thing America has NOT taken away from Cubans is their intelligence. They are the best doctors you can find anywhere in the world. And although they are limited in resources they continue to survive on what little they have. You must visit one day and make sure you take a spin on one of their locally made bikes. Your Okadas in Lagos have nothing on them,

VIVE LA REVOLUCCION!!!!!

uumm,  that statement about the doctors is as false as anyone can come up with @Islander. Cubans are just as intelligent as the indians and chinese and people from all over the world. Cuban doctors are not the best in the world, I don't know how to came about that one but that is not a true statement. You are still going on about the revolution when I even showed you an article you can read to understand cubas own economy. Arguing that cuba has some of the best doctors in the world is not of relevance to this argument. I hope you know that ?? And that move you made there is akin to claiming cause Nigerians do well in many parts of the world supports an argument that the Nigerian government is doing well. That is just ridiculous. The intelligence of the average cuban is not in question here. The system and how it has worked for the people is. You blame the USA and I am worried that if I ask you who is to blame for Nigeria, you might say the colonial masters, if you really want to apply the same rules you do in this case across the board.

I am sorry but I think I will have to stop here cause it seems you are now offering me things that are not relevant at all to the topic but simply pecking around to find something desperately. Point remains, Cuba has been and is responsible for it's own economy, has been doing business with countries around the world for decades and still is. It's debt it acquired of it's own. I really think it is a waste of my time and yours for us to continue this if you are not even willing to research information to know fact from fiction. So I choose to stop here on this. You speak of brainwashing but I think you find it hard to see and know that things maybe different from what you believe. Anyways, nice chatting with you. Maybe we can debate some other topic that you are open to researching then.

Kobojunkie:

[size=14pt]I am sorry but I think I will have to stop here cause it seems you are now offering me things that are not relevant at all to the topic but simply pecking around to find something desperately.[/size] Point remains, Cuba has been and is responsible for it's own economy, has been doing business with countries around the world for decades and still is. It's debt it acquired of it's own. [size=14pt]I really think it is a waste of my time and yours for us to continue this if you are not even willing to research information to know fact from fiction.[/size] So I choose to stop here on this. You speak of brainwashing but I think you find it hard to see and know that things maybe different from what you believe. Anyways, nice chatting with you. Maybe we can debate some other topic that you are open to researching then.

hahahahahaha

troublemaker

CHe Guevara sought to change governments with violence, topple old ones and replace them with new, even through a river of Blood.

Nairaland's posse of US-haters labels him a hero.

George Bush sought to change the dictatorial Government in place in Iraq and replace it with democracy (a government of the people)

The same posse labels him a warmonger.

Surely there's a whiff of hypocrisy here. . .