islam as cost the world our peace , bombing everywhere thats a religion thats as destroyed peoples view of God , how can we solve this problem,whats ur view abt this religion

Jihãd in the Koran

The Koran does not discuss a single Islamic tenet systematically and in conformity with the arrangement of its chapters. The combined body of Revelations from Allah which constitute the Holy Book of Islam appeared to the Prophet without any logical sequence during the 23 years of his prophetic career (609 to 632 AD), and this fact accounts for its haphazard arrangement. The Koran has 114 chapters and some six thousand verses. The verses of jihãd, like those explaining any other doctrine, remain spread over a great many chapters. This is the reason why, to an ordinary reader, the knowledge of any and every Islamic doctrine appears difficult, the doctrine of jihãd being no exception.

A second and more important reason for the difficulty is that the Koranic verses do not deliver their full meaning without a knowledge of their relevance in the Prophet�s career. The Koran is not the only source book of Islam, the so-called Hadis1 collections share that role equally. In Arabic the plural of hadîs is ahãdîs; these describe what the Prophet did or what he said. As a Muslim would put it, these narrate the Prophet�s Sunnah (practice of the Prophet). In one sense, the importance of the Hadis literature in the life of a Muslim is even greater than that of the Koran. A Koranic text might admit of different meanings. Certainly different commentators could suggest different meanings of the same Koranic verse. But the relevant hadîs, in explaining its meaning as exemplified in the Prophet�s practice, renders the meaning unique for all time to come.2

Besides the Hadis, another source book for the Sunnah are the so-called siyar (plural of sîrah) or the biographies of the Prophet. These do not belong to the body of Islam�s canonical literature but in so far as the events described in them are considered genuine by the ulema or the collectors of the Hadis, these bring out the meaning of Koranic verses even more clearly than the Hadis. Thus the genuine biographies of the Prophet are important source books for Sunnah.

After these preliminary remarks the reader must understand that the literal meaning of jihãd is �effort� or �striving� - a meaning, to all intents and purposes, unrelated to the sanguinary activities with which the word has become inextricably woven. The technical expression used in the Koran is jihãd fi Sabilillah, �effort in the way of Allah�. But even this expression does not explicitly mention any sanguinary conflict, and if we concentrate on meanings of words alone, we are likely to be led astray. When closely examined, the eighth sûrah (chapter) of the Koran, the Sûrah Anfãl, and the ninth sûrah entitled Taubah are the truly jihadic sûrahs. But jihãd is enjoined in many other chapters. Perhaps the most significant verse in this connection is Koran 8/39 which, in meaning, is almost identical with Koran 2/193.

These declare: �Fight them until persecution is no more and religion is all for Allah.�

In other words, Allah in 8/39 and 2/193 enjoins perpetual war for the destruction of the persecuting Koreish of Mecca, and, by the same token, for the abolition of all non-Islamic religions the world over.3 This according to the Koran is the best �striving in the way of Allah�. This is Jihãd fi Sabilillah in its most comprehensive meaning.

(2) Is this war allegorical? Since Mahatma Gandhi�s allegorical explanation of the Kurukshetra war, it has been the fashion in India to consider all types of religious wars as wars against the baser passions of the human mind. The contagion has not spared even Muslim scholars who are sometimes heard giving a nonviolent interpretation of jihãd. But such explanation is clearly contrary to Koranic verses. In the 74th verse of Sûrah Nisã, Allah says very clearly:

�Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Who so fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or victorious, on him we shall bestow a vast reward.�

This verse clearly shows that there is nothing allegorical or metaphysical in the nature of war that is jihãd; it is armed war and nothing else. The idea has been further explained in another verse which says:

�Hast thou not seen those unto whom it was said: Withhold your hands and establish worship and pay the poor-due? But when fighting was prescribed for them, behold! a party of them fear mankind even as they fear Allah or with greater fear, and say: Our Lord! why hast Thou ordained fighting for us? If only Thou wouldst give us respite for a while. I Say: The comfort of this world is scant; the Hereafter will be better for him that
wardeth off evil� (K 4/77).

This verse describes the benefits of jihãd to be enjoyed in the hereafter. Also it clearly shows that, instead of �withholding one�s hand�, jihãd requires the waging of unremitting armed conflict. Obviously, this verse descended for the instruction of those Muslims who had been pleading against bloodshed and wanting �respite� from the duty of engaging in murderous confrontations. Historically too this verse is rather important. Before the Migration (to Medina) the number of Muslims (in Mecca) was not large, but even among that small number there were war-mongers whom Allah had to restrain as the issue of war in Mecca was dim. This comes out clearly in the first half of the verse. On the other hand, if the traditional date of the sûrah to which the whole verse belongs be accepted, the second half of the verse shows that after the reverse at the Battle of Uhud (625 AD), the Muslims of Medina wanted to settle down to a peaceful existence. This second half was intended to rouse them to renewed warlike effort, and to revive their drooping spirits. Not only that. The verse seems to imply that over and above the war-mongers there existed a body of Muslims who were essentially peace-living, and it required all the eloquence of Allah and his Prophet to rouse them and goad them into unflinching bloodshed. The lure of a felicitous hereafter was held up before them, and it was made clear that the abrogation of Meccan pacifism was final and irrevocable.

(3) The extent of violence and bloodshed permitted in jihãd is also clearly stated in the Koran. The 5th verse of Sûrah Taubah makes no bones about the matter. Allah says in so many words:

�When the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them, besiege them and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free.�

The meaning of this verse is clear enough. �Profess Islam or else die� - such is the upshot of this verse expressed in the most transparent language possible.4 But clearer even than this is the declaration embodied in the 67th verse of Sûrah Anfãl, which says: �It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world but Allah desireth (for you) the hereafter.�

The historical background of this particular verse is important. Every student of Islamic history knows that the first landmark in the world-conquering mission of Islam was the Battle of Badr (624 AD). For the Koreishite idolaters of Mecca who fell into Muslim hands in that war, a proposal was mooted that all those captives be let off in lieu of adequate ransom. The idea was to earn some money by sparing the lives of the captured Koreish. Historians attribute this proposal to have originated from Abu Bakr. Another suggestion came from Umar who would have all the idolaters slaughtered. The Prophet accepted Abu Bakr�s suggestion and, after killing a handful, let off the rest of the prisoners in lieu of some ransom money. Evidently this was not to the liking of Allah who would have a �slaughter in the land� rather than that his devotees should opt for �the lure of this world� - an expression which evidently stands for the ransom money accepted by the Prophet. As Mohammed Pickthall puts it, �The Prophet took the verses as a reproof, and they are generally understood to mean that no quarter ought to have been given in that first battle.� The sanguinary nature of jihãd comes out in this episode with the uttermost clarity.

(4) A variant of this ransom money was the famous jizyah or poll-tax or capitation-tax as it has been variously rendered.5 The Revelation enjoining the institution of this tax also occurs in the Koran. Sûrah Taubah declares with thunderous clarity:

�Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the last day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His Messenger and follow not the religion of truth, until they pay the tribute (jizya) readily,6 being brought low� (K 9/29).

This verse is of the greatest historical significance, and to explain it we must first of all know the meaning of the expression �those who have been given the Scripture�. The Arabic original of the expression, Ahl-ul-Kitãb, and the Indian variant Kitãbî as also the English phrase �People of the Book�, are also important.

In orthodox Islam the term Kitãbî stands for Jews and Christians. This is because the Koran recognises the Jewish Scripture Taurãt (=Old Testament) and the Christian Gospels Injîl (=Evangel=New Testament) as Revelations equally authentic with the Koran but superseded, as this very verse indicates, only by the latter. The non-Kitãbîs or non-Scriptuaries of the world are, in the Koran, designated as mushrik (=idolaters). With this explanation, the verse in question simply states that the lives of Scriptuaries may be spared in jihãd, provided they pay the poll-tax �in humility and with their own hands�. The verse is silent regarding idolaters; it does not specify if their lives too can be spared in lieu of jizyah. But as mentioned earlier, Islamic tenets do not derive from the Koran alone. There occur ahãdîs - not recognised by all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence - which are supposed to mention the letting off by the Prophet of certain idolatrous (non-Arab) tribes in lieu of the poll-tax. The ulema, even to this day, are not unanimous whether Hindus deserve such immunity, even though the Sultans and Padishahs of Delhi had granted it by recognising their Hindu subjects as kharãjguzãr (=payer of the poll-tax) and zimmî (=held in tutelage). Even the fanatical Aurangzeb did not controvert this usage.

(5) Not only the poll-tax or ransom money. Another fruit of jihãd is �plunder� or �spoils of ghanîmah� as the Koran puts it. The 69th verse of Sûrah Anfãl declares:

�Eat ye the spoils of war. They are lawful and pure.�7

This injunction regarding �spoils of war� will be taken up in detail in a subsequent chapter. For the present it will suffice to mention that this injunction is part of the group of injunctions laid down in the Koran on the subject of jihãd.

To sum up, the following are the rules and instructions regarding jihãd as laid down in the Koran:

(a) The ultimate object of jihãd is to Islamize the whole of humanity. Since the Prophet�s sojourn in Medina, this duty has been permanently enjoined on Muslims over the length and breadth of the world.

(b) The immediate objects of jihãd are four in number: (1) spread of Islam by war; (2) the destruction of infidels; (3) jizyah; and (4) plunder.8

(c) For Scriptuaries the imposition of jizyah is the rule, just as for idolaters the rule is mass-slaughter. But there are many exceptions to this general rule. Mass-slaughter of Jews in jihãd is eminently permissible, as the subsequent chapters will show. On the other hand, even idolaters can be let off on payment of the poll-tax. The Koran has not published any rigorous rule regarding these matters.

(d) Jihãd is by no means a war for self-defence. Historically the verse �kill the idolaters wherever you find them� (K 9/5) forms an item in the �immunity� granted to the Prophet in 631 AD regarding his obligations to the idolaters of Arabia. But as in every verse of the Koran, the implication of such immunity in respect of a particular set of infidels embraced in due course idolaters of any and every country of the world. Such an injunction is necessarily informed with the spirit of extreme aggressiveness. For those who plead that the call of jihãd is an injunction for self-defence, the so-called immunity verses of the 9th sûrah are the best refutation; but there are many other verses which confute the plea.

In conclusion it is only necessary to add that according to the Koran, the duty of jihãd for any and every Muslim of the world preponderates over all other Islamic duties. This is brought out most clearly in verses 9/19-22, but these are by no means the only verses with a similar import.

In these verses Allah makes an estimate of the relative excellence of a Muslim who engages in jihãd as contrasted with another who is engaged in pacific Islamic duties:

�Count ye the slaking of a pilgrim�s thirst and tendence of the Inviolable Place of Worship (i.e. the Ka�ba) as (equal to the worth of him) who believeth in Allah and the Last Day, and striveth in the way of Allah (i.e. engages in jihãd)? They are not equal in the sight of Allah� Those who believe and have left their homes and striven with their wealth and their lives in the way of Allah are of much greater worth in Allah�s sight� (K 9/19-22).

The meaning of these verses is clear enough. The �greater worth� of the mujãhid �in the sight of Allah� necessarily renders him fit to obtain a greater reward here as well as hereafter. The reward here is an exclusive share in the spoils of war which is denied to the sedentary Muslim.9 The reward hereafter is everlasting residence in the highest heaven which the Hadis literature designates as Jannãt-ul firdaus. It is to that literature that we must turn now to see how Allah�s injunctions are confirmed and, in fact, added to in the Prophet�s Sunnah.

Indeed the Lord of Honour has obligated preparation (for Jihâd) in the Wise Remembrance (i.e. the Qur'ân). He says,

"And make ready against them all you can of Quwwah, including steeds of war to threaten the enemy of Allâh and your enemy." [Qur'ân 8:60]

(Enemies of Allah are the Jews, Christians and the Hindus classified as Kafirs)

Ibn 'Abbas said, " 'al-Quwwah' (lit. Power) here is the weapon and the shield, and he sallallâhu 'alayhi wa sallam said, 'Verily, indeed al-Quwwah is firing.' " [Related by Muslim]

As-Sa'dî said, " 'al-Quwwah' is the weapon you terrorize the enemy of Allâh and your enemy with; Ibn Abbas said, 'You pierce the enemy of Allâh and your enemy with it.' "

So the Lord of Honour has obligated preparation with a weapon and a horse to affront the enemies of Allâh and humiliate them. A man met Imâm Mujâhid (the scholar of tafsîr) in Makkah (and Mujâhid was) with saddle-bags; Mujâhid said, "This is from al-Quwwah", and Mujâhid was making ready for battle.

The Companions use to praise al-Quwwah and compete in the field of honour and jihâd; 'Urwah al-Bâriqî use to have seventy horses ready for jihâd.

The hadîth, "Verily, indeed al-Quwwah is firing" reflects the evidence and miraculous nature of Prophethood, as the large part of recent wars are established by firing, from bullets to cannons to rockets. All of them are (forms of) firing, whereas the wars of old and his time sallallâhu 'alayhi wa sallam, their load relied upon swords, spears and horses, and as for the use of arrows, it was much less than them (i.e. the sword, spears and horses).

The fact is that when we used to use this language, it was understood by all races; awe used to be in the hearts of our enemies from us; victory used to come to use by a month's journey through fear. The enemies' shoulders trembled, their limbs shivered and their joints quaked in the face of the mention of the Muslims, whose enemies used to described them as, "Monks by night, Warriors by day."

The above verses are only the tip of the iceberg. Any deluded Non-Muslim who thinks that Islam is the religion of peace and that it is only misguided Muslims who commit terrorism and atrocities, can pick up an English translation of the Koran from any bookstore and refer to these Verses (Surahs). If, even after reading these Surahs, you are foolhardy enough not to realise the facts that I have explained, then here is a list of Allah's plans for you. All of these punishments befit you by default if you happen to be a Non-Muslim. Even a mass murderer will eventually attain Pardise if he is Muslim, wheras any Non-Muslim, even if he happens to be a Saint is eternally damned to Hellfire by Allah's decree. In Allah's own immortal words:

Koran 2:39
Those who reject faith (Islam) and belie our signs, They shall be Companions of the Fire and abide in it.

Koran 2:89-90
The Curse of Allah is on those without faith (in Islam) Thus have they drawn wrath upon wrath on themselves and humiliating is the punishment of those who reject faith (Islam)

Koran 5:33
The Punishment for those who oppose Allah and his messenger is : Execution or Crucifixion or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land

Koran 9:35
On the day when Heat will be produced out of the wealth in the Fire of Hell, and with it will be branded their foreheads, their sides and their backs- "This is the treasure that ye buried for yourselves, taste ye then the treasures that ye buried."

This verse is referring to those people who don't spend their money in the way prescribed by Allah. Obviously if you happen to be a Non-Muslim, you don't spend money in the ways that the Muslim Allah prescribes, so this is the fate you are heading for. Beware All Ye Filthy Capitalists of America! This Surah's for you.


Koran 8:50
If you could see when the angels take the souls of the Unbelievers at death. How they smite their faces and backs saying "Taste the penalty of the blazing Fire"

Even the angels will be doing Allah's dirty work for him. The Merciful Allah does not discriminate among his Muslim followers. Everyone starting from the Muslim Bum to the Angel gets a chance to maim, mutilate and kill Non-Believers. Allah is truly just and Merciful!

If you do happen to pick up that copy of the Koran as I mentioned, don't expect your fate to improve, unless you become a Muslim. Allah doesn't want Non-believers to understand the Koran. This is quite understandable on Allah's part, because any self-respecting human being who reads the Koran will be revolted at the violence and sadism espoused in it. Is it any wonder that Muslims don't want Non-Muslims to read or discuss any part of the Koran? They are afraid, that anyone who reads it will soon realise the true nature of Islam, which is genocide sanctioned by religion.
Here Allah explains that Non-Muslims will never be allowed to understand the Koran:

Koran 17:46-47
And we put coverings over their hearts and minds, lest they should understand the Koran, and we put deafness in their ears; when you commemorate your Lord (Allah) and Him alone in the Koran

If a Non-Muslim cannot understand the Koran, how is he/she expected to convert to Islam on their own accord? This is obviously an admission on Allah's part that people can be converted to Islam only by violent force, because he has ensured that they cannot understand it via reading the Koran. For any Non-Muslim to understand the Koran would be absolutely counterproductive to Islam. Muslims have hidden the truth from Non-Muslims for ages. It is a fact that the available English translations of the Koran do not contain many of the original Arabic Verses. Many particular verses were edited and changed by Muslims, because they were just too violent and explicitly revealed the brutal and barbaric nature of Islam.

The Koran is a psychological manual that incites hatred and violence in the reader. It was specifically designed for this very purpose, so that the Prophet Mohammed could carry on his tradition of Genocide and Terrorism, long after his death. The entire recorded history of Muslims is a testament to this fact.

Note: The Meaning of the Holy Quran by Abdullah Yusuf Ali has been used to compose this article

Talking about inciting hatred,the OT part of the "holy" bible is not very far behind the koran.
They are both equally filled with hateful messages and teachings.

Here are a small example of verses in the "holy" bible that clearly shows the level of intolerance that the christian messages contain,just like islam;


Kill those who are not Christian or Jewish:

You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11

Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5


Judge other religions for not following Christ:

Whoever denies “that Jesus is the Christ” is a liar and an anti-Christ. 1 John 2:22

Christians are “of God;” everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19

The non-Christian is “a deceiver and an anti-Christ” 2 John 1:7

Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s beliefs has “an evil heart.” Hebrews 3:12

False Jews are members of “the synagogue of Satan.” Revelations 2:9, 3:9


Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Jagunlabi were you ever a Christian?

I used to be,but i deconverted when i got tired of the bullshit i was being served.
ISLAM and CHRISTIANITY are both RELIGIONS FOR DUMMIES,and not necessarily religions of doom.
You'll have to be braindead to stay in both religions.And since my brain is very much alive and loves to be flexed and challenged,i walked.

Moreover,i know how christians love to throw stones at other peoples glasshouses,when they live in glasshouses themselves.
I recall that wonderful Peter Tosh song that goes thus;

"If you live in a glasshouse,
don't throw stones
And if you can't take no stones,
then don't throw stones"

You think christianity does not have a rotten stinking underbelly too?Well it does.So if you want to keep attacking other religions by exposing what is about them that stinks,then the same will be done to your religion,and believe me it is so easy to bring out the rotten underbelly of christianity because it is as gigantic as it is stinking.
I think both muslims and christians would do well to shut their traps on attacking each other and exposing what is bad about their respective religions(because no religion is perfectly pure)and make themselves more useful by concentrating on issues that have some spiritual depth.
But then,i remember that both religions have no such spiritual depths(both are literalist religions) so what their followers are left with is nothing other than throwing muds at each other.
How banal.

stillwater:

Jagunlabi were you ever a Christian?

Jagunlabi, the reason I asked you that question is this---did your pastor or maybe reverend father (when you were a christian) ever tell/ordered you to kill anyone?

@stillwater



Let me wait here because it seems my attention will be needed based on your last.

@babs787

Wait well well

My pastor/reverend was always telling me to send my fellow human beings to hell for eternal damnation (just because they are not part of the christian clique) with my mind and word of mouth.That is the same or worse than physical killing.
I couldn't send an upright,kind,compassionate human being to hell simply because he/she is not a christian and is not being fed with the same christian doctrinal junk i was swallowing.
My spirit/soul rejected it,so i walked.

stillwater:

Jagunlabi, the reason I asked you that question is this---did your pastor or maybe reverend father (when you were a christian) ever tell/ordered you to kill anyone?

It's obvious I'm a christian . My pastor did not tell me to send an upright,kind,compassionate human being to hell simply because he/she is not a christian. Who am I to send someone to hell when I am not perfect.

Now tell me why didn't my pastor tell me to send someone else to hell?

And where was Jesus (who helped Mary Magdalene and told us to judge not) telling us to send someone to hell, since you've read the bible front and back and very enlightened about the scriptures.

You'll have to be braindead to stay in both religions.And since my brain is very much alive and loves to be flexed and challenged,i walked.

Good you walked however do you really know the meaning of brain dead?

stillwater:

My pastor did not tell me to send an upright,kind,compassionate human being to hell simply because he/she is not a christian.

Are you so naive,or are you just pretending to be?Christian doctrine clearly says that if you're not a christian,you are headed for hell.Or have you never heard of such teachings in many of your church sermons?

stillwater:

Who am I to send someone to hell when I am not perfect.

It is a mental state.When you have been brainwashed through repeated sermons that only christians will see "salvation",translated = avoid hell,you cannot help but see your fellow human being in hell simply because he/she does not belong to your religion

stillwater:

Now tell me why didn't my pastor tell me to send someone else to hell?

Your pastor did.And every blessed sunday,too.
Do you think a non-christian will see salvation?Answer that.

stillwater:

And where was Jesus (who helped Mary Magdalene and told us to judge not) telling us to send someone to hell, since you've read the bible front and back and very enlightened about the scriptures.

Well,i couldn't find where Jesus said it,and neither could i find where Jesus said he should be worshipped,neither could i find where he said that he is the son of God or part of the fabled trinity.
Now tell me how all that crap found their way into the christian doctrine?

stillwater:

Good you walked however do you really know the meaning of brain dead?

You want to tell me?

Are you so naive,or are you just pretending to be?Christian doctrine clearly says that if you're not a christian,you are headed for hell.Or have you never heard of such teachings in many of your church sermons?

Now I am so naive,eh . It clearly appears you do not the theme of the bible as you always presumed to know. It's not every one that goes to school that comes out fully educated with the proof of a certificate, _{why should I have expected more from you.}

Jagunlabi, you as a non believer are you so good and righteous that you've never,never insulted anyone before, as you pointed out that christians are ever ready to condemn people?

Your pastor did.And every blessed sunday,too.

Wow I did not know Jagunlabi was sitting close to me every blessed Sunday
Jagunlabi you said salvation means "avoid hell". An F on your part if this was an exam I'm sorry . Salvation means saved from sins (stealing, killing, ati gbo gbo e).

Do you think a non-christian will see salvation?Answer that.

As it is written I(Jesus) am the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes to the father except by Me(Jesus) John 14: 6. So you see it wasn't christians who originated this claim it was Jesus .

Well,i couldn't find where Jesus said it,and neither could i find where Jesus said he should be worshipped,neither could i find where he said that he is the son of God or part of the fabled trinity.
Now tell me how all that crap found their way into the christian doctrine?

I will provide the scriptures for you since you could not find it. Matt 7:1,2-- Judge not that you be not judged. For with what judgement you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.

Those "who send other people to hell" (if I should borrow your words) kindly tell me what would happen to them in relation to the scipture I gave you.

You'll have to be braindead to stay in both religions.And since my brain is very much alive and loves to be flexed and challenged,i walked.

I asked you the definition of brain dead because anyone who is brain dead is dead already, as in not alive and since christians are still breathing, eating, reproducing, responding to stimuli , the term brain dead proves you are wrong. Another F on you part.

Well,i couldn't find where Jesus said it,and neither could i find where Jesus said he should be worshipped,neither could i find where he said that he is the son of God or part of the fabled trinity.
Now tell me how all that crap found their way into the christian doctrine?

I pray that you will be free from your bondage of knowledge!

You want to be a free thinker? Those who do not know their God will live a mistrable life.

I pray for you that Holy Spirit will viswit you. You are not as bad as Apostle Paul

You will be free soon. In Jesus name I pray.

dafidixone:

I pray that you will be free from your bondage of knowledge!

Why does a line like this not surprise me,coming from a christian apologetic?Knowledge results in no bondage,faith does.Faith is bondage,while knowledge is freedom.God(not the rampager in the bible) is a being of knowledge,and that's how it got to be so smart(Omniscient)
I pray that you free yourself from the bondage of your faith.

dafidixone:

You want to be a free thinker?

Yes i want to be a freethinker because that is what God wants.Or else why do i have the intellectual capacity to freethink?Why was i endowed with such ability?To be enslaved by faith?To become as stupid as all the religious sheeple on this forum?
No,sir!It is knowledge that sets one free,and it is only via the freedom to think that leads to true knowledge,and that includes the knowledge of the universal source(GOD),whence we all came.

dafidixone:

Those who do not know their God will live a mistrable life.

Quite true.And that is why nigerians are living miserable lives in their own country,because they all don't have a clue what their god is,or what their god(s) want.
God is knowledge,and only through knowledge will we end misery in our lives.

dafidixone:

I pray for you that Holy Spirit will viswit you. You are not as bad as Apostle Paul

Holy spirit?What is that?Who is apostle Paul?A fictional entity from a fictional book,i guess.

dafidixone:

You will be free soon. In Jesus name I pray.

I am free already,fool.Free from the clutches of stupidity in the name of religion.

jagunlabi:

God(not the rampager in the bible) is a being of knowledge,and that's how it got to be so smart(Omniscient)

I pray that you free yourself from the bondage of your faith.Yes i want to be a freethinker because that is what God wants

Same old story. They want to retain the "idea" of God because deep in their hearts they know that one exists but they dont want to be "shackled" by the responsibility that comes with belief in God.

When they talk about the "freedom" of free thinking they actually mean the license to continue in sin without the moral burden of guilt.

jagunlabi:

Or else why do i have the intellectual capacity to freethink?Why was i endowed with such ability?To be enslaved by faith?To become as stupid as all the religious sheeple on this forum?

You were endowed with the ability to "freethink" by God who believes in the power of choice. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

You are free to reject this choice.

jagunlabi:

No,sir![b]It is knowledge that sets one free,[/b]and it is only via the freedom to think that leads to true knowledge,and that includes the knowledge of the universal source(GOD)

_{side note: quite nice to see how people of the world love to borrow biblical quotes and twist it to suit their own desires.}

Knowledge sets one free? Knowledge in what exactly? Knowledge in science? Are the artists then in bondage?
What of those that didnt go to school? are they in bondage? Do they also not have the freedom to think?
Can someone be specific about this "knowledge"?

jagunlabi:

God is knowledge,and only through knowledge will we end misery in our lives.

God is knowledge? What "God" and what "knowledge"?

It clearly appears you do not the theme of the bible as you always presumed to know.

Believe me,i do.I am just not in the least interested in regurgitating verses from a fictional book to support my stand.I have read the book front to back and it is nothing but pile of crap.

It's not every one that goes to school that comes out fully educated with the proof of a certificate, why should I have expected more from you.

Aah!The reason i got educated was to make it tough for anybody to pull a wool over my eyes.And it works for me.
How about you?Your education seems to have failed you,since you have volunteered to go through life on earth with your brain completely switched off,and letting some pastor remote you for the rest of your life.How tragic!

Jagunlabi, you as a non believer are you so good and righteous that you've never,never insulted anyone before, as you pointed out that christians are ever ready to condemn people?

I never said that i am righteous or good.That is the fringe benefits of being free of religion,the ability to come to terms with my imperfections and trying to better myself through knowledge gained from my experiences and mistakes.Something christians/muslims will never come to grips with.

Wow I did not know Jagunlabi was sitting close to me every blessed Sunday

I don't have to.I am quite familiars with the load of bullshit served from every pulpit in every church.I was once part of it,you know.

Jagunlabi you said salvation means "avoid hell". An F on your part if this was an exam I'm sorry

Oh,really?Salvation does not have any reference to afterlife?There is an OLODO here,and i think it is not me.

Salvation means saved from sins (stealing, killing, ati gbo gbo e).

Really?What about those who commit none of those "sins" you listed up there,live a very pure life,and yet are not christians?Are they "saved",too?

As it is written I(Jesus) am the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes to the father except by Me(Jesus) John 14: 6. So you see it wasn't christians who originated this claim it was Jesus

I don't beleive Jeshua would say a thing like that.In my opinion,that verse is totally fake.And if i put into consideration the pious fraudsters(early church fathers) who put the bible together,then i am so so damn sure that that verse was fraudulently created and slipped into the bible as the words from Yeshua.
Or else,how can a man that taught compassion,love,forgivenes,and selflessness,suddenly went twelve guage and started to selfproclaim like a goddamn rapper?I am this,i am that, etc,etc
Two things,either that verse is fraudulent,or Yeshua was a fraudster.Take your pick.
Do you know anything about the early christian history?Probably not.
Anyway i would have preferred a straight answer to my question and not the usual dancing around questions that you christians love to do.

I will provide the scriptures for you since you could not find it. Matt 7:1,2-- Judge not that you be not judged. For with what judgement you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.

I am sorry but this quote says nothing about jesus wanting to be worshipped.Are you confused,already?

Those "who send other people to hell" (if I should borrow your words) kindly tell me what would happen to them in relation to the scipture I gave you.

How should i know,since you quoted from a book that contradicts itself in almost everything.
You tell me.

I asked you the definition of brain dead because anyone who is brain dead is dead already, as in not alive and since christians are still breathing, eating, reproducing, responding to stimuli , the term brain dead proves you are wrong. Another F on you part.

That is your own definition,but let me give you mine.
Braindead sheeples are those who have switched off their grey matter and put it into a state of disuse becaue of their indoctrination via their religion.
If you cannot use your brainpower to think freely and be productive,if you allow yourself to be so totally brainwashed that you are stripped of any ability to ponder things outside the dogmatic box,then you're a "DEAD BRAIN WALKING".

Yeah!I don't want to be shackled with emulating a god that is so repugnantly evil.I have my own concept of what the true GOD is,and i am quite happy with it.I am deist,you see.The picture of what God is,that christianity was painting for me was quite unacceptable(too full of contradiction crap),so i dumped it.I have never felt better since then.
GOD is a universal concept subsribed to by most peoples of this planet.A concept of a UNIVERSAL creator being.
The rest are just mere versions of that concept,influenced by the cultures that manifest them.For example,the european/western culture manifested the judeo-christian version of WHO God is,and WHAT God wants.
The arabic version results in allah and islam,etc,etc.
What is the pure african version of the concept?Do you know?I don't think so.

davidylan:

Same old story. They want to retain the "idea" of God because deep in their hearts they know that one exists but they don't want to be "shackled" by the responsibility that comes with belief in God.

Goodness!How thee bombed!Freethinking has little to do with sinning.Freethinkers make the world go around,dude.You and i are communicating at this very moment because of what FREETHINKERS made possible.That,my friend,is what using the DIVINE SPARK within you is all about.Why i'm i telling you all this,anyway.I don't expect your brainwashed self to understand.
BTW,what constitute a "sin" in y<our book?Not doing the will of your evil bible god?
If that is what constitutes a "sin",then i am sinful.
I don't want to do the will of a butcher deity who is more evil than 1000 satans all rolled into one!According to the OT chronicles,ofcourse.

davidylan:

When they talk about the "freedom" of free thinking they actually mean the license to continue in sin without the moral burden of guilt.

Yeah,right.God believes in the power of choice,but then turns around and tries to ensnare me within a dogmatic cage.Excellent!
And what is the reason behind giving me the power to freethink then,if i had to live my life by the words written in a mere book,and the words of few dubious clergies?You want to tell?
It is contradictions like this that make people to deconvert from christianity.Contradictions galore.

davidylan:


You were endowed with the ability to "freethink" by God who believes in the power of choice. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

You are free to reject this choice.

Sorry to dissapoint you,but that is a universal quote,and i did not take it -,nor have to,from the bible.It is just something most free people know in this day and age.

davidylan:

side note: quite nice to see how people of the world love to borrow biblical quotes and twist it to suit their own desires.

Oh boy!You have a lot to learn,really!
You don't need to go a formal school before you acquire knowledge.Just mere life experience is enough to imbibe one with knowledge.Have you ever heard of the quote,"Experience is the best teacher"?
The more you know about the world you live in,the more you become resistant to being brainwashed by a dubious few,and the freer you become.It is a simple and straight forward logic.
The right of every human individual to keep such a right,dude,is divine.Straight from the creator itself.
And anybody who tries to take that away from me or any other human being,is not only an enemy of mine,but God's.
Ain't that sweet?

God is knowledge?YES!
What "God" and what knowledge?=What is the point?

davidylan:

God is knowledge? What "God" and what "knowledge"?

Yeah!I don't want to be shackled with emulating a god that is so repugnantly evil.I have my own concept of what the true GOD is,and i am quite happy with it.I am deist,you see.The picture of what God is,that christianity was painting for me was quite unacceptable(too full of contradiction crap),so i dumped it.I have never felt better since then.
GOD is a universal concept subsribed to by most peoples of this planet.A concept of a UNIVERSAL creator being.
The rest are just mere versions of that concept,influenced by the cultures that manifest them.For example,the the eropean/western culture manifested the judeo-christian version of WHO God is,and WHAT God wants.
The arabic version results in allah,etc,etc.
What is the pure african version of the concept?Do you know?I don't think so.

davidylan:

Same old story. They want to retain the "idea" of God because deep in their hearts they know that one exists but they don't want to be "shackled" by the responsibility that comes with belief in God.

Goodness!How thee bombed!Freethinking has little to do with sinning.Freethinkers make the world go around,dude.You and i are communicating at this very moment because of what FREETHINKERS made possible.That,my friend,is what using the DIVINE SPARK within you is all about.Why i'm i telling you all this,anyway.I don't expect your brainwashed self to understand.

davidylan:

When they talk about the "freedom" of free thinking they actually mean the license to continue in sin without the moral burden of guilt.

Yeah,right.God believes in the power of choice,but then turns around and tries to ensnare me within a dogmatic cage.Excellent!
And what is the reason behind giving me the power to freethink then,if i had to live my life by the words written in a mere book,and the words of few dubious clergies?You want to tell?
It is contradictions like this that make people to deconvert from christianity.Contradictions galore.

davidylan:


You were endowed with the ability to "freethink" by God who believes in the power of choice. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

You are free to reject this choice.

Sorry to dissapoint you,but that is a universal quote,and i did not take it -,nor have to,from the bible.It is just something most free people know in this day and age.
Oh boy!You have a lot to learn,really!
You don't need to go a formal school before you acquire knowledge.Just mere life experience is enough to imbibe one with knowledge.Have you ever heard of the quote,"Experience is the best teacher"?
The more you know about the world you live in,the more you become resistant to being brainwashed by a dubious few,and the freer you become.It is a simpla and straight forward logic.
The right of every human individual to keep such a right,dude,is divine.Straight from the creator itself.And anybody who tries to take that away from me or any other human being,is not only an enemy of mine,but God's.
Ain't that sweet?
God is knowledge?YES!
What "God" and what knowledge?=What is the point?

davidylan:

God is knowledge? What "God" and what "knowledge"?

jagunlabi:

GOD is a universal concept subsribed to by most peoples of this planet.A concept of a UNIVERSAL creator being.

Here is the problem with this abstract concept of God . . . who is this God? Can you explain him? Why did he create you and what is his plan for you here and in the hereafter?
This nebulous concept is subscribed to by people who want a license to continue in debauchery without the moral burdens of guilt.

jagunlabi:

Goodness!How thee bombed!Freethinking has little to do with sinning. Freethinkers make the world go around,dude.You and i are communicating at this very moment because of what FREETHINKERS made possible.

Most of the early scientists whose research are the foundations of science today were christians. So much for "free thinkers making the world go round".

jagunlabi:

That,my friend,is what using the DIVINE SPARK within you is all about.Why i'm i telling you all this,anyway.I don't expect your brainwashed self to understand.Yeah,right.God believes in the power of choice,but then turns around and tries to ensnare me within a dogmatic cage.Excellent!

We believe in the God of the bible and they say we are "brainwashed" . . . is it also possible that "free thinkers" who pretend to believe in an abstract creator whom they have absolutely NO relationship with are also brainwashed and deluded?

jagunlabi:

Sorry to dissapoint you,but that is a universal quote,and i did not take it -,nor have to,from the bible.It is just something most free people know in this day and age.

Maybe if you did a little bit of digging u'd realise that the quote actually emanated from the bible. "Universal quotes" dont just appear from thin air.

jagunlabi:

Oh boy!You have a lot to learn,really!

not really. i could care less if u read the bible or not. . . that is the power of choice for you.

jagunlabi:

You don't need to go a formal school before you acquire knowledge.Just mere life experience is enough to imbibe one with knowledge.Have you ever heard of the quote,"Experience is the best teacher"?
The more you know about the world you live in,the more you become resistant to being brainwashed by a dubious few,and the freer you become.It is a simpla and straight forward logic.

Free from what exactly? Is a 70yr old farmer from Nepal "free" simply because he has acquired so much of life's experiences?

jagunlabi:

The right of every human individual to keep such a right,dude,is divine.Straight from the creator itself.And anybody who tries to take that away from me or any other human being,is not only an enemy of mine,but God's.

an enemy of a "god" whom you know not of, a "god" whose laws you have no idea about? How do you know whom this "god" of yours takes as an enemy or not?
Has this "universal creator" got a book or a mantra or anything that we may relate to him?

at the end of the day you come out more confused than you even started.

what more do I expect from a jaguda

Isnt it wonderful how "free thinkers" so much love the christian version of God and yet pretend to deny Him simply because they want to live according to the flesh?

The take the biblical God and label him a universal creator . . .
They take his idea of heaven and turn it into a universal heaven that they expect to be allowed in.
They twist his words and tell us they are merely universal quotes.

jagunlabi:

[b]My pastor/reverend was always telling me to send my fellow human beings to hell for eternal damnation (just because they are not part of the christian clique) with my mind and word of mouth.[/b]That is the same or worse than physical killing.
I couldn't send an upright,kind,compassionate human being to hell simply because he/she is not a christian and is not being fed with the same christian doctrinal junk i was swallowing.
My spirit/soul rejected it,so i walked.

Spare us such guff.Not only was your supposed Christian obligations-send fellow human beings to hell with your mouth and mind-complete baloney,even if you happened to belong to some mickey mouse denomination that ascribed to this mysterious theology,saying that murder is worse than "sending people to hell with. . . ." is utter nonsense.

An atheist doesn't give a damn what an Evangelical thinks of him. . . . . he would however be bothered by "physical killing"(your grammar is revolutionary)

Drawing moral equivalence where there is none is ridiculous. If you claim to fear "damnation by word of mouth" more than murder,you probably need to see a shrink.

I-man:

Spare us such guff.Not only was your supposed Christian obligations-send fellow human beings to hell with your mouth and mind-complete baloney,even if you happened to belong to some mickey mouse denomination that ascribed to this mysterious theology,saying that murder is worse than "sending people to hell with. . . ." is utter nonsense.

An atheist doesn't give a damn what an Evangelical thinks of him. . . . . he would however be bothered by "physical killing"(your grammar is revolutionary)

Drawing moral equivalence where there is none is ridiculous. If you claim to fear "damnation by word of mouth" more than murder,you probably need to see a shrink.

Or get them to up his meds

davidylan:

Isnt it wonderful how "free thinkers" so much love the christian version of God and yet pretend to deny Him simply because they want to live according to the flesh?

The take the biblical God and label him a universal creator . . .
They take his idea of heaven and turn it into a universal heaven that they expect to be allowed in.
They twist his words and tell us they are merely universal quotes.

It's like Carlton Pearson,a preacher and founder of the famed asuza conventions in Southern California I loved him  so much when I first moved here,watched him a lot on TBN and stopped seeing him for many years and always wondered where he was until late last year when CNN had a program where he was profiled.
The man still claims to be a Christian but is clearly now a heretic and preaches that  all people will go to heaven,that God is too holy and kind to send anyone to hell.
Of course 99% of his members deserted him.

He's now somewhere in the west coast,with an ear ring in his left ear,pastoring a "church" for all people,preaching heresies and conducting foot washings with lesbians and homosexual men.

The devil would go to any lengths to deceive folks and still give them the assuirance that they are ok.
Christ is not mocked.

Jagunlabi, you called yourself a deist, to an atheist you are also brainwashed and deluded.

I don't think so.I don't live by any doctrine to be brainwashed with.

stillwater:

Jagunlabi, you called yourself a deist, to an atheist you are also brainwashed and deluded.

You are even more delluded than i thought if you believe that.What is there to love about the christian version of what God is?
A juvenile,brutish,brutal,unloving,sadistic,genocidal mass murderer of a deity offers anything to love.
You can have him
If to be able to freethink is "living according to the flesh",then i want to live it to the fullest.I'd rather live that way than live bounded with chains of christian dogma.
You can have the chains and the shackles.

davidylan:

Isnt it wonderful how "free thinkers" so much love the christian version of God and yet pretend to deny Him simply because they want to live according to the flesh?

Quite on the contrary.The bible writers took the concept of Universal Spiritual Source and turned it into a bloodthirsty biblical god.

davidylan:

The take the biblical God and label him a universal creator . . .

The other way around,dude.A christian heaven was created with the keys in the hand of the church leaders.With that kind of power,they can skin fools like you dry while giving you hope of entering where you are going,anyway.
That is why everything about the bible is fake.Nothing original in it.

davidylan:

They take his idea of heaven and turn it into a universal heaven that they expect to be allowed in.

Is there anyone on this planet who knows how to twist words more than the christians?Fortunately for people like me,christians were and still are such lousy wordtwisters.
That is why their teachings are packed to the rafters with contradictions,gaps,discrepancies,etc.
Discrepancies that they will forever struggle to explain away.
There are fools who are ready to gloss over such lies,but not people like me.
I see them all and they stink.

davidylan:

They twist his words and tell us they are merely universal quotes.

Mickey mouse denomination?Wow!Is the catholic denomination "mickey mouse"?Interesting that the pope just condemn all his christian brethrens to eternal damnation just because they are not catholic.Lol!Talk of religious love!
I think you all should see good shrinks,not me.Do that before you all turn on yourselves.

I-man:

Spare us such guff.Not only was your supposed Christian obligations-send fellow human beings to hell with your mouth and mind-complete baloney,even if you happened to belong to some mickey mouse denomination that ascribed to this mysterious theology,saying that murder is worse than "sending people to hell with. . . ." is utter nonsense.