@noetic,

If we however don’t stick to the basic relevant issues, we will never get it straight. We would only be gallivanting if we don’t stick to the basics. We all know certain tins in d bible, but shouldn’t relate it to all issues. It’s a gimmick by Muslims, who often run out of ideas.

While you are right, not everything is that simplistic. For instance, if I answered that dead saints are in heaven, someome who does not know that man is not his body will point to the grave and tell me that I am wrong because of the bones we still see there. A lack of understanding that man is not the body that we see will make anyone jump to that conclusion.

Ok. But this issue in my opinion is wrongly taught in most churches.

I'm glad you admit its your opinion. Just curious, how many churches have you attended and how many preachers have you listened to talk about this topic for you to make such a conclusion?

Are we talking about the same luke16?

Absoultely. here is my response to someone about this chapter a while back.

I have stated before that this is not a parable but a lesson of history. Here are some reasons why I hold to this belief:

1. Jesus never mentions a name in his parables. He almost always starts his parables with the statement: the KOG is like ,

2. Jesus used the word "certain" in describing the rich man and Lazarus. This is a definite article that indicates he had particular people in mind. See verses 19 There was a certain rich man; 20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus,. Jesus was essentially saying there was a particular rich man and there was a particular beggar.

3. In starting this parable, Jesus began by with the phrase: "There was", which shows He was talking about an event that took place.

No its not. Cos like Jesus said in john3vs13, no one is in heaven yet.
Abraham was used because of the isrealites respect for him as a friend of God. And he said rich and poor because of the living conditions and differences between d leaders of those days n d masses. Or are u also insinuating that wealth is a yardstick for Christ`s judgement?

I don't know how you came about your insinuation. In any case, Abraham's bossom is not heaven. It was located next to hell in the ground. this issue I have also dealt with before and will not go into it again unless you ask for more proofs.

Until u answer the questions I asked u about the spirit, I disagree with this statement.[/b]I believe I have provided you with answers earlier.

You haven’t proved this, biblibically.

1 Cor 15:35-50 35 But some man will say, [b]How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. I hope that answers your question. What happened to jesus body after the resurrection is what will happen to our bodies. it will no longer be a natural body but a spiritual one. But the fact remains that it is the same body that will be raised as we see in Jesus.

Please don’t get it wrong, the account of the gospel where moses and Elijah were seen with Jesus is according to the disciples. They could have been wrong. Y?
1).Wen Jesus was seen walking on water, they thought it was a ghost, If Jesus had not told them He was the one and asked peter to come along, the biblibical account would have been they a ghost on water.
2). Moses and Elijah lived thousands of years before the time of Jesus, how then did the disciples recognise them? The jewish tradition forbade worship with pictoral images, how then did they know what this prophets look like?
3) Jesus said in john3vs13 no one has gone to heaven.
Perhaps they had seen the elders of heaven, refered to in revelation.

You are so wrong I could scream. They actually saw Moses and Elias. Why are you just making up stories to prove yourself right? why would Jesus ask them to keep what they've seen to themselves until He rose from the dead? Why would He want them to propagate a falsehood? Why would He then tell them some more about Elijah when they kept asking Him questions that is borne out of the experience on the Mt of transfiguration?

As to how they were recognised, it is very possible that Jesus told them or they perceived it in the spirit. The biblical account account mentioned that what they first saw was Jesus and two men standing by His side. It was only when the men were gone that the disciples said anything. besides, Luke confirmed in his accout that the men were Abraham and elia before the disciples even woke up to witness the transfiguration.

He never implied they are distinct. He only told us there is a spirit, the issue is, is it distinct from the body?

The spirit is absoultely dinstict from the body. If I may ask, who is the "I" that Paul refered to in this scripture 1 Cor 9:27 -But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, [b][/b]I myself should be a castaway. Paul clearly differentiated between the spirit and the body there.

this he never said, unless u re quoting him out of context.

pilgrim1 has called your attention to Eccl. 12 v 7 - Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. this clearly indicates that death brings about a separation between the body and the spirit.

@ pilgrim

uhmn! u sounded like u were cross with me. please dont be.

I tot d tone of ur lat two posts were rather coversational, that neccesitated the same tone in response. and I guess that my attempt to reply ur 2 posts immediately and together, made u feel I was overstretching matters.
i hate typing too, I wish there was a machine I would talk into, n will just type wat I say.

none the less, forgive my excesses.

u carefully evaded some things I mentioned, and u also raised certain other issues, to which I will respond as soon as I can

be cool
cheers

Please don’t get it wrong, the account of the gospel where moses and Elijah were seen with Jesus is according to the disciples. They could have been wrong. Y?
1).Wen Jesus was seen walking on water, they thought it was a ghost, If Jesus had not told them He was the one and asked peter to come along, the biblibical account would have been they a ghost on water.
2). Moses and Elijah lived thousands of years before the time of Jesus, how then did the disciples recognise them? The jewish tradition forbade worship with pictoral images, how then did they know what this prophets look like?

Wha??

Noetic, surely you can do better than this. The quote above belongs to stubborn Bible skeptics and mockers like some of the muslim apologists on this site, not mature Christians. Perhaps this thread has outlived its usefulness. Thorough work has been put by Tayo-D, ricadelide and my student pilgrim.1 ( student ke??) to answer your question, and IMHO you haven't done enough to come to serious terms with their work. Rather, you seem determined to drag us in circles by having things repeated over and over again. Either you are confused about the whole subject of death and ressurection, or you are just spoiling for a fight. Up until now I believed that the former was the case.

God bless

@ Pilgrim

@Bobbyaf,

You are really buying time, aint you? Grin Well done. Let me show you how very smart you think you are:

Really now!

Quote from: Bobbyaf on Yesterday at 06:26:09 AM
I want to hear from you as to what happens to the wicked man when he dies? What happens to his spirit?

If you did not know what happens to the spirit of the wicked man when he dies, then what did you mean by the spirits of ALL PERSONS going back to God in this quote:

Quote from: Bobbyaf on Yesterday at 06:26:09 AM
We know that all persons who die that their spirits go back to God.

I know what I quoted. You need not remind me. The point I am making is very simple. I am not the one who started out with the idea that when the righteous dies his spirit is aware and conscious. The fact is you are in agreement.

Did you detract there to assume that the spirits of ALL persons would subtract those of the wicked? I simply want to know how you want to play this game before I walk you out tying your shoelace. If your "ALL" includes the wicked, what is the question again? Cheesy

Let me repeat it again since you either failed to comprehend the question, or are just skipping around it. What happens to the spirit of the wicked who dies? Is his or her spirit aware when compared to that of the righteous after death?

I would like you to quote me directly - and then perhaps you will see why this game of yours is not helping you gain anything. If you care for a genuine discussion, please offer the same.

Why should I see the need to quote you when we already know your stance on the subject matter.

Scuttling around these excuses when you are yet to address the several pointers that have been offered you is no way to demonstrate that you truly have a grip on your persuasions. I simply would like to see you discuss rather than offer excuses.

Cheers.

All the pointers are very much the same, but they are nowhere near what the bible teaches.

In either case I am afraid you simply don't want to answer fearing that in responding your ideas will come to naught. To avoid that simply speak the truth. Answer the question.

@ Rockiedink and Noetic

I asked Pilgrim to respond to my question as to what happens to the spirit of the wicked when he/she dies. She's clueless. Like Rockiedink says the bible is its own interpreter. Instead of extrapolating we need to simply accept what it says. If it says the dead are asleep then lets accept that.

@Bobbyaf,

I asked Pilgrim to respond to my question as to what happens to the spirit of the wicked when he/she dies. She's clueless. Like Rockiedink says the bible is its own interpreter. Instead of extrapolating we need to simply accept what it says. If it says the dead are asleep then lets accept that.

Perhaps you should read through Luke 16. the story of Lazarus should fill you in on what happens to the unrighteous dead. If you are really interested in letting the Bible interprete itself, then you will accept that in hell, they will open their eyes when they die.

If you'd like to argue with the passage, then we'll provide you with more evidence.

Hi @Tayo-D,

Tayo-D:

@Bobbyaf,
- - -
If you'd like to argue with the passage, then we'll provide you with more evidence.

It appears that "more evidence" is not what they are genuinely interested in. If he (Bobbyaf) was actually interested in the discussion and arriving at sane inferences, he would not be offering cheap cuts here and there and seeking sympathy from his club - all of whom (except perhaps noetic) have refused to attend the simple questions offered them by yourself, ricadelide, and longman83.

That kind of evasive drama is a well-known mechanical device to evade truth and project one's own ideas that cannot be substantiated. I guess if they actually could substantiate their ideas or persuasions, they no doubt would have sought to address those questions and not coming back with cheap jubilations.

I now understand why my other "seniors" (longman83 and ricadelide) apart from yourself, have demonstrated their maturity in not saying too much. . . unless where needs be. I am tempted to take their reservations as well - except that I'm just being lazy to do other stuff.

@noetic,

noetic:

@ pilgrim

uhmn! u sounded like u were cross with me. please don't be.

No, I wasn't cross with you. Certainly rather, I was quite surprised that you'd require me to repeat myself in a few places. I'm sorry it came across to you that way, though.

noetic:

I tot d tone of your lat two posts were rather coversational, that neccesitated the same tone in response. and I guess that my attempt to reply your 2 posts immediately and together, made u feel I was overstretching matters.

Er, no - it was not the fact of your combining the answers into a neat single package as you did; but as explained above.

noetic:

i hate typing too, I wish there was a machine I would talk into, n will just type what I say.

none the less, forgive my excesses.

Nevermind my surprised reactions.

noetic:

u carefully evaded some things I mentioned, and u also raised certain other issues, to which I will respond as soon as I can

be cool
cheers

Ok, I'll be looking forward to the issues I might've evaded.

Cheers.

@Bobbyaf,

Bobbyaf:

@ Pilgrim

Really now!

I know what I quoted. You need not remind me. The point I am making is very simple. I am not the one who started out with the idea that when the righteous dies his spirit is aware and conscious. The fact is you are in agreement.

Lol. . . dear Bobbyaf, I think that was a clever way of trying to scuttle behind the real gist of your argument. If I was in agreement all along with everything you stated, would you even have asked me any questions at all in the first place - even repeatedly? Is that how you repeatedly asked the same questions to noetic and Rockiedink?

No, you didn't read me as being in "agreement". Your query was about the whereabouts of the spirit of the wicked dead - and not about whether the spirits of the righteous are aware or conscious. See again:

#1.

Bobbyaf:

So let me ask a question. When the wicked dies where does his spirit go? 

#2.

Bobbyaf:

I want to hear from you as to what happens to the wicked man when he dies? What happens to his spirit?

However, when someone asked about some righteous saints in another thread, you did not sound like you were in "agreement" with the recent persuasions. You did not agree at that time that they were in HEAVEN - see again:

#3.

Bobbyaf:

So u think mary and the Apostles ARE IN THEIR GRAVES!

Very much so until Christ comes to resurrect them.

Well, all this is the reason why I've been carefully trying to follow your persuasions and hoped that you would have made things easy enough for others to engage you in this discussion.

Bobbyaf:

Let me repeat it again since you either failed to comprehend the question, or are just skipping around it. What happens to the spirit of the wicked who dies? Is his or her spirit aware when compared to that of the righteous after death?

I wasn't skipping round the question at all - and I had hoped you would realize that your repeated query was unnecessary - since it has been addressed earlier.

Nonetheless, if it was not now a matter of the spirits of the righteous, but that of the wicked dead, again I would say that they exist in another, entirely different, consciousness.

It only now would mean that you'd request me to go through in more detail and elaborate upon that persuasion - even though it has been addressed once and again.

Bobbyaf:

Why should I see the need to quote you when we already know your stance on the subject matter.

I would appreciate that you quote me directly where you tend to be reading issues into my rejoinders and attributing things I never said. I didn't once confuse the soul for the spirit either way; but you had misread me on the matter of the soul - and that was why I requested you to quote me directly. If you were not sure, it would have helped that you do not assume that you knew my stance (or anybody's) on a particular matter - until you have quoted them particular, which would then provide a basis for what you intend to query.

Bobbyaf:

All the pointers are very much the same, but they are nowhere near what the bible teaches.

If that is what you assume, why then have you refused and continually ducked responding to the simple questions that were offered you by longman83 and ricadelide? Isn't it ironic that every question you offered has been addressed (not minding that you were repeating yourself over them)?  For fairness sake, if we had no grasp on our convictions, we would not have addressed your query. But it is only clear that one who has systematically and consistently ducked questions offered him is in fact the very one who has no grasp on his own queries - which is what you have done!

If you actually have anything solid on your persuasions, may I request formerly that you please address the questions offered you by ricadelide and longman83 (Tayo-D's later where you may). (here and here), thank you.

It is because you did not directly answer their questions (IMHO), that was why I took the time to post matters about the spirit of man - viz:

   ~ (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-104156.32.html#msg1853560)
   ~ (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-104156.32.html#msg1853567)
   ~ (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-104156.32.html#msg1853595)

You did make any serious issues on those entries - disagreeing or agreeing anywhere; but the next we know was your terse remark that I tried to quote you directly or in full:

   ~ (https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-104156.32.html#msg1854096)

So, Bobbyaf, I have taken the time to make things easier for us all. Do please share with us and save the mechanical devices.

Bobbyaf:

In either case I am afraid you simply don't want to answer fearing that in responding your ideas will come to naught.

I have answered. If you don't get me, don't assume a cheap victory that is non-existent. I'd rather you asked me to clarify where you might not have understood me - which is why I appreciate noetic's rejoinders: he often asks, rather than assume anything.

Bobbyaf:

To avoid that simply speak the truth. Answer the question.

I have done so. Where do you not understand any matter in my persuasions?

Cheers.

@Bobbyaf,

Bobbyaf:

@ Rockiedink and Noetic

I asked Pilgrim to respond to my question as to what happens to the spirit of the wicked when he/she dies. She's clueless. Like Rockiedink says the bible is its own interpreter. Instead of extrapolating we need to simply accept what it says. If it says the dead are asleep then lets accept that.

If I was clueless, I would not have answered. If being "clueless" is synonymous with not answering a question, then the fact is that you have been clueless all along for refusing to answer simple questions that have been offered you.

@ ricadelide

I have replied your e-mail. and now that I do understand your definition of the "spirit", which has been the basis of disagreement, I concurr with pilgrim1 that except the spirit is clearly defined the issue of ressurection cannot be addressed. because our understanding and definition of the spirit still differs.

once again I apologise for any inconviniences caused.
but if u had initially posted what u mailed me, I would have understood your position, because I felt disscusing the spirit was irrelevant, because of my belief that it is not distinct from man, which is contrary to your belief.

I however think that we should shift our discussion over to the other thread, to compare our individual definition and understanding of the spirit, then and only then can the issue of ressurection be addressed. because like pilgrim rightly pointed out to me, in the other thread, we are basically applying the same scriptures but with different interpretations.

I am not discussing/debating because I think I know something that should be imposed on others,
because only intelligent people learn, fools don't.

please paste your explanation of the spirit at the relevant thread and lets make open comparisons.
kudos to your intellect and keep being a gentleman.
cheers

@tayo-d
I intend to reply your posts as soon as I can.

you have made certain sensitive responses, but have also evaded certain issues I raised earlier raised and my position still hasnt changed.

after reading ricadelide`s mail, I now believe, like pilgrim said that unless the spirit issue is tackled, ressurection cannot be fully discussed.
because after reading your last posts, I remain unconvinced by your positions and think we should simultaneously debate the spirit in the relevant thread.

please post your explanation of the spirit in the relevant thread and pick holes in mine where u think we differ.

y? because if u think the spirit is distinct from the body biblibically, u will continue to assert that since the body is in the grave, the spirit must have gone to God in heaven which I disagree with.

I look forward to reading ur explicit definition of the spirit.
cheers


@bobbyaf.
I feel u and continue to believe that we have a similar position.

but for the sake of learning and passing knowledge, let us examine the basis of their believe about ressurection, which is a distinct spirit.
because having read tayo-d recent posts, we will only continue to move in circles, if we don't discuss the spirit.

cheers

@noetic,

I will oblige you and meet up in the other thread. I am glad we are moving forward with this. And may I commend your gentlemaness in the face of contradictory views.

Tayo-D:

@noetic,

I will oblige you and meet up in the other thread. I am glad we are moving forward with this. And may I commend your gentlemaness in the face of contradictory views.

I concur. Well done gentlemen.

@noetic,
Good to hear from you. Pardon my absence from this thread and the other one these couple of days; I've hard quite a busy time at work. And the aussie open ( ) hasn't given me much time at nights either . I wont be far behind the next few days though. Like TayoD did I have to commend you as well - and pardon any perceived excesses from my part.
Cheers .

its given to man to die once, after death comes judgement./

I mentioned that to you earlier from Hebrews 10:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, Please explain away the phrase in bold.

and like I also replied u, that d answer is in the same verse, which I have now made bold. they are made perfect because heir names are written in heaven, they are not in heaven.

I don't believe I need to prove that their bodies are still in the grave.

u don't have to, because I have already done that. man is in the grave, dead and buried.

To make things clearer, you need to understand that dead saints were usually taken to Abraham's Bossom before Christ. After Christ's ascension we all go to heaven.

to help me understand what u are refering to please make biblibical refrences to where abrahams bossom is the destination of man after death, without using the lazarus parable. did the apostles preach this (abrahams bossom) after the demise of Christ?
please refer me to the bible verse that states we go staraight to heaven ever since Jesus died?

after reading your contribution to the thread did God create hell fire? (through the link u provided)
I was suprised your position on hades/hell was unchallenged. hades is d place of the dead, righteous or unrighteous awaiting judgement.
it is interpreted in english to mean hell. but hell on its own exists as we all know it.

but wait this your other claim was really funny.

As for Abraham's Bossom, it is no longer populated because Jesus took all the occupants with him to heaven during his ascension.  This is what the Bible refers to in the Book of Ephesians 4:8 as "He led captivity captive."  You will also remember that when Jesus was risen, people saw a number of this old testament saints in and around Jerusalem.  Jesus took them with Him on His triumphant entry into heaven.

please note that the bible verse u referred to was irrelevant to this claim.y? it says he led d captive free "by" giving gifts to men
and u are also claiming that Jesus ascended with other people. I don't c this in the bible.

Dead saints before the ascension of Christ were kept in Abraham's bossom because though they were righteous, their spirits were not yet perfected without the church Hebrews 11:40 - God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. When Christ arose and brought them justification, their spirits were perfected and they were raised with Him to heaven. It is the spirits of these men that the people of Jerusalem saw - Matthew 27;52-53. Hebrews 10:22 -23 that I quoted above tells us that the spirits of these just men that have been perfected are now in heaven.

i think u are intentionally muddling this scriptures to butress your opinion.
in hebrews11:40, the bible does not imply what u are saying. read verse 35, u will understand that death is believed to be the end and then ressurection is awaited.
verse39 says they are still awaiting the promise God made to them (eternal life), even though Christ has risen. verse40 now says that better things have been made for those awaiting this promises, that without them(those awaiting d promise) things should not be perfect. that leads to the venue or essence of eternal life.

to be cont`d

DEATH is a transition.
when a man dies(sleep) so to say, d spirit goes back 2 d owner-GOD. he gave it 2 you and receive it back. that ends it d issue of d spirit , it has 2 go back because d DEAD cannot praise or worship GOD.

what matter most is d state of d SOUL AND D BODY.

when a christian dies, d mortal body remains in d grave.
d soul, which is immortal is PRESERVE in a "temporal resting place called abraham bosom.it is a resting potential. better called PARADISE.
no body goes 2 heaven or hell fire UNTIL D GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT- final seperation.

a christian who die now will b securely kept in a peaceful , restful abode so as not 2 see CORRUPTION waiting for the RESSURRECTION OF D BODY.

when d trumpet sounds, the dead IN CHRIST will 1st RISE ( FIRST RESSURRECTION) and meet christ in d AIR , D rest saints will then be caught up 2 meet christ as well.( it is called RAPTURE)
series of events will take place in d air and on earth - ( d study is called " escatology')
so during d first ressurrection d soul takes on its REFINED, INCORRUPTIBLE BODY. d same body with which it lays inside d grave, but a renewed, refined , sinless, spotless body. dis is pattern according 2 christ's ressurrection.
2 shortened d whole thing, it is d saved SOUL in an INCORRUPTIBLE BODY that will give ACCOUNT OF WHAT HE HAD DONE IN D BODY ACCORDING 2 THAT HE HAD DONE. d soul will be CONSCIOUSLLY PRESENT. note that word CONSCIOUSLLY PRESENT!

after series of events, both d good and d bad, righteous n unrighteous, d just n d unjust finally meet at d GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT for the final separation. each will now go back 2 its own DESTINATION either heaven or hell fire, not hell.
even d so called believers will not forever stay in heaven, they are STILL COMING BACK 2 THE EARTH, BUT A NEW EARTH COMING DOWN FROM D THRONE OF GOD. this is a REPLCAL OF D FIRST SINLESS GARDEN OF EDEN!

d soul lives on in a renewed, refined, incorruptible body and in a new earth, having a new heaven.

this is a summary, it is a comprehensive issue. which is more explicit when u take a course in ESCATOLOGY. u can can reach me on 08072705904, sikaz4u@yahoo.com

My understanding, is that no man, prior to the death of Jesus Christ ever ascended into Heaven because the Blood of Jesus Christ had not yet been paid. After His death on the Cross a miracle occured. The Holy Bible in Matthew 27: 52-53 says

27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

(http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/27.html)

Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.


I don't like to give a literal interpretation of the Holy Bible, because I am a learner also.

Hi @Ndipe,

Ndipe:

I don't like to give a literal interpretation of the Holy Bible, because I am a learner also.

Literal interpretation or not, we are all learners.

It's interesting that this subject is helping us all examine the views we have all held hiterto about the subject. Confessedly, it is so broad that one necessarily has to examine the many connections thereto - the nature of the spirit, soul and body of man (in life and at death); the nature of the places described (heaven, hell, grave, etc); the meaning of such terms as "ascended", "resurrection", "sleep", etc.

Cheers all the same.

@ OGA TAYO-D

SCRIPTURE WITHOUT REFERENCE FOR ONE OF YOUR STUDENT, BESIDES THAT ONE NO DEY INSIGHTFUL ENOUGH ABI NO BE YOU TALK SAY MAKE PERSON COLLATE. ABEG FIRE ON BETA FOR US TO CLEARLY UNDERSTAND.

We need to look at NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES. It is a very interesting topic.

It documents the experience of those that were (almost) pronounced dead but bounced back to life.

Click here for more info:> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-death_experience

Na wa o! Simple question to big big grammar and explanations! I sha know that when we die, we will be with our Creator-GOD.

The Answer to this question lies in the book of revelations, where it explains about the second heaven and the day of judgement. It points out that there will be a new heaven and hell. This is where the contradiction comes from because we miss this when reading gods word. The bible also shows us that the first heaven is like being asleep, in the silence of the grave or resting at peace, so after the second coming of christ we are awoken and resurrected to be judged for our acts, which gives us our seat in the second heaven.

1THESS 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.…