From our long term contentions on this forum i besiege you to come and hence show us that which is absolutely true and since you claim privy to such knowledge...I indulge you to come and in plain words show us the truth in relation to the christian God and his word

Assumptions for the basis of argument:

- There is a God/Source/Maker etc etc

- This said God is the God of the whole bible

Hence i begin with three questions that are beginning for definitions:

- Who is a true christian?

- What is Scripture,How do we verify scripture?, What is the difference between Scripture and the Bible?

- How did we get the Bible?

Well even the said christain religion and manything they told us in the bible were gotten from pagan origin to tell you that what you see today is just formulated for colonization sake ok

This ought to be good..

I'll sit by and wait for a response

mkmyers45: From our long term contentions on this forum i besiege you to come and hence show us that which is absolutely true and since you claim privy to such knowledge...I indulge you to come and in plain words show us the truth in relation to the christian God and his word

Assumptions for the basis of argument:

- There is a God/Source/Maker etc etc

- This said God is the God of the whole bible

Hence i begin with three questions that are beginning for definitions:

- Who is a true christian?

- What is Scripture,How do we verify scripture?, What is the difference between Scripture and the Bible?

- How did we get the Bible?

Before truthislight, myself or any other christian brother begins attempting your questions...you must agree to our terms and conditions.

1. NO VERBAL DIARRHEA. AS MOST OF YOU ARE FOND OF THIS...IF YOU USE PROFANITY OR BELITTLE OTHERS, YOU ARE AUTOMATICALLY DEEMED A slowpoke UNQUALIFIED TO ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS HONESTLY. EVERY PARTICIPANT VISITING THIS PAGE IS WORTHY OF YOUR RESPECT. DO YOUR INTELLIGENCE A FAVOR AND ABSTAIN FROM TREATING THOSE WITH OPPOSING VIEWS LIKE TRASH.

2. NO CHEATING OR CHANGING THE SUBJECT. ANSWERING QUESTIONS WITH QUESTIONS, CHANGING THE SUBJECT, STRAW MAN ARGUMENTS, ETC., ARE JUST ANOTHER WAY TO AVOID THE QUESTION AND FLAUNT YOUR SARCASM. BE DIRECT, STAY ON TOPIC, AND ANSWER THE QUESTION... IF YOU CAN.

3. BE INTELLECTUALLY HONEST. FACTS ARE FACTS, TRUTH IS TRUTH, THEORY IS THEORY, OPINIONS ARE OPINIONS AND THOUGHTS ARE THOUGHTS. IF YOU DON'T KNOW, YOU DON'T KNOW. TELL IT LIKE IT IS. IF THERE IS NO PROOF THAT MAN HAS EVOLVED FROM A MONKEY, THAT MAN IS STILL EVOLVING, THAT THE BIG BANG THEORY IS TRUE, OR THAT THERE ARE ALIENS WITH GREATER INTELLIGENCE LIVING OUTSIDE OUR SOLAR SYSTEM, DON'T STATE IT AS FACT. INSTEAD, CALL IT YOUR BELIEF, THEORY, ASSUMPTION, OR THOUGHT. (IE: "I THINK..." OR "MY THEORY IS..."

4. IT SHOULD BE UNDERSTOOD THAT BIBLICAL REFERENCES ARE NOT UNQUALIFIED AS RELEVANT ARGUMENTS SIMPLY BECAUSE ATHEISTS DON'T BELIEVE IT IS A RELIABLE SOURCE OF INFORMATION. BOTH CHRISTIANS AND ATHEISTS ALIKE BASE AT LEAST SOME OF THEIR BELIEFS ON PAST EVENTS OR THE WORDS OF SOMEONE ELSE, WHETHER SUPPORTED BY OBSERVABLE EFFECTS OR NOT. PLEASE PROVIDE REFERENCES AND SOURCES THAT SUPPORT YOUR STATEMENTS. WHEN QUOTING SOMEONE ELSE,

5. IF GOD IS LOGICALY PROVEN TO YOU IN THE COURSE OF THIS DEBATE, WOULD YOU DEEM HIM WORTHY OF YOUR PRAISE?

FINALLY...

6. YOU MUST COME OUT PLAILY AND TELL US WHAT YOU WANT...THE QUESTION YOU ASKED ON THE HOME PAGE IS QUITE DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU'RE ASKING NOW. I WOULD LIKEN THAT TO CONFUSION ON YOUR PART...THIS IS NOT A JAMB EXAMINATION, NEITHER CAN IT BE LIKENED TO A JOB INTERVIEW SENERIO...THEREFORE YOU MUST BE CLEAR ON YOUR QUESTION BEFORE ANY ANSWER WOULD BE PROVIDED.

Answer this and we're good to go.

1. Have i ever insulted you? 2. ok 3. Ok 4. Understanding all the loopholes and escape vents in it: i agree but remember that its all myth not fact ok? . 5. Lets cross the bridge first 6. We are starting with elementary debate nothing ..P.S I need an argument junkie o ehn Where is TIS?

Ummmmm...he would not come.

Your replies most especially number 5 and 6 to our terms and conditions are unsatisfactory. Therefore as the public relations officer of the Nairaland christian fellowship, I shall be plain to you what we've concluded on.

We've come to a conclusion that since its very impossible for you to state your demands, we have decided to boycott the debate, pending when you would play the honesty role and be more straight with us.

Signed CrazyMan PRO

CrazyMan: Ummmmm...he would not come.

Your replies most especially number 5 and 6 to our terms and conditions are unsatisfactory. Therefore as the public relations officer of the Nairaland christian fellowship, I shall be plain to you what we've concluded on.

We've come to a conclusion that since its very impossible for you to state your demands, we have decided to boycott the debate, pending when you would play the honesty role and be more straight with us.

Signed CrazyMan PRO

Ok, im waiting for TIS he said he'll be here since you are not interested..Cheers

Truthislight is a hypocrite and a heretic and will likely shy away from this especially as it concerns the last three questions.

I would attempt answering your questions.

1.For one to be a true or orthodox xtian he must believe in the apostle's and nicene's creeds and strive to live by the dictates of God.

2.A scripture is a holy writing concerning the early prophets,Jesus or the early church.it can either be historical,instructive or prophetic.

3.You can verify scripture by checking if its accounts and propecies are consistent with the rest of the teaching of Jesus,apostles and the prophets.

3.The bible refers to canonised scripture.This implies that there are some scriptural books which was not canonised and hence not in the bible.

5.The bible was compiled by a group of catholic bishops led by st Augustine of hippo in 393CE @ the synod of hippo.it was also ratified by the local councils of carthage held in 397CE and 417 CE

chukwudi44: Truthislight is a hypocrite and a heretic and will likely shy away from this especially as it concerns the last three questions.

I would attempt answering your questions.

1.For one to be a true or orthodox xtian he must believe in the apostle's and nicene's creeds and strive to live by the dictates of God.

2.A scripture is a holy writing concerning the early prophets,Jesus or the early church.it can either be historical,instructive or prophetic.

3.You can verify scripture by checking if its accounts and propecies are consistent with the rest of the teaching of Jesus,apostles and the prophets.

3.The bible refers to canonised scripture.This implies that there are some scriptural books which was not canonised and hence not in the bible.

5.The bible was compiled by a group of catholic bishops led by st Augustine of hippo in 393CE @ the synod of hippo.it was also ratified by the local councils of carthage held in 397CE and 417 CE

Y wuld u call him a heretic and hypocrite??wetin him do??....

The poster is asking how we got d bible and what is scripture....

U barely mentioned d apostles who penned down Gods inspired word u went straigth ahead to the council of nicea...

Na wa for u.....

mkmyers45: Ok, im waiting for TIS he said he'll be here since you are not interested..Cheers

You don't get it do you?

We're very much interested but I smell a rat here...this questions you asked would lead to further questions when answered and more questions...from your post so far (the one on the home page and this one) you're not here to get answers, you have a secrete mission.

Therefore consider number 2 and 6 on the terms and agreement, and we would have a change of heart.

Signed PRO

CrazyMan:
You don't get it do you?

We're very much interested but I smell a rat here...this questions you asked would lead to further questions when answered and more questions...from your post so far (the one on the home page and this one) you're not here to get answers, you have a secrete mission.

Therefore consider number 2 and 6 on the terms and agreement, and we would have a change of heart.

Signed PRO

2. I agree

6 The answer is on the header of the thread

If not interested dont reply

mkmyers45: From our long term contentions on this forum i besiege you to come and hence show us that which is absolutely true and since you claim privy to such knowledge...I indulge you to come and in plain words show us the truth in relation to the christian God and his word

Assumptions for the basis of argument:

- There is a God/Source/Maker etc etc

- This said God is the God of the whole bible

Hence i begin with three questions that are beginning for definitions:

- Who is a true christian?

- What is Scripture,How do we verify scripture?, What is the difference between Scripture and the Bible?

- How did we get the Bible?

firstly, i have to object to your singling me out for THIS discussion.

No man is a custodian of knowlege and i am NOT.

You should have left it open to all or invite many christians.

Like it is obvious Already, the so call christians will/may end up attacking each other due to the points you have chosen to be discussed.

To this end and avoidance of confussions i will like to point out that my view points are exclusively base on what is contain in the bible, and when i say the bible, i mean GENESIS to Revelation (66 books)

mkmyers45:

-Who is a true christian?

as much as i find most of what you wished we discuss very pertinent, however they are highly contentious.

Even the one highlighter above will bring alot of argument that will polarise things the more in this forum.

In the light of the above, i feel it is not my place to pass Judgement on people, but to point out what the bible says whenever possible.

There are very Good bible student in this forum that i cannot go listing there names here, but i surely belief that the simple fact that they show so much interest on what the bible says and not for "SELFISH REASONS" qualifies them to be called bible student and as such qualifies to continue expressing their view points here.
Afterall the bible says "iron sharpens iron"

this should and can only be an open discussion open to all that feel their views are biblical/truth.

For me, i take "ONLY THE 66 BOOKS OF THE BIBLE AS THE WORD OF GOD" but you are very well aware that this statement alone will not go down well with the catholics(RCC)

please. If you wish add other people names or better still remove my name and let all come and have a swell time.
Peace

CrazyMan: Ummmmm...he would not come.

Your replies most especially number 5 and 6 to our terms and conditions are unsatisfactory. Therefore as the public relations officer of the Nairaland christian fellowship, I shall be plain to you what we've concluded on.

We've come to a conclusion that since its very impossible for you to state your demands, we have decided to boycott the debate, pending when you would play the honesty role and be more straight with us.

Signed CrazyMan PRO

seconded.

truthislight:

firstly, i have to object to your singling me out for THIS discussion.

No man is a custodian of knowlege and i am NOT.

You should have left it open to all or invite many christians.

Like it is obvious Already, the so call christians will/may end up attacking each other due to the points you have chosen to be discussed.

To this end and avoidance of confussions i will like to point out that my view points are exclusively base on what is contain in the bible, and when i say the bible, i mean GENESIS to Revelation (66 books)


as much as i find most of what you wished we discuss very pertinent, however they are highly contentious.

Even the one highlighter above will bring alot of argument that will polarise things the more in this forum.

In the light of the above, i feel it is not my place to pass Judgement on people, but to point out what the bible says whenever possible.

There are very Good bible student in this forum that i cannot go listing there names here, but i surely belief that the simple fact that they show so much interest on what the bible says and not for "SELFISH REASONS" qualifies them to be called bible student and as such qualifies to continue expressing their view points here.
Afterall the bible says "iron sharpens iron"

this should and can only be an open discussion open to all that feel their views are biblical/true.

For me, i take "ONLY THE 66 BOOKS OF THE BIBLE AS THE WORD OF GOD" but you are very well aware that this statement alone will not go down well with the catholics(RCC)

please. If you wish add other people names or better still remove my name and let all come and have a swell time.
Peace

Don't worry others are free to contribute....

Please go ahead and start with the first question

chukwudi44: Truthislight is a hypocrite and a heretic and will likely shy away from this especially as it concerns the last three questions.

I would attempt answering your questions.

1.For one to be a true or orthodox xtian he must believe in the apostle's and nicene's creeds and strive to live by the dictates of God.

2.A scripture is a holy writing concerning the early prophets,Jesus or the early church.it can either be historical,instructive or prophetic.

3.You can verify scripture by checking if its accounts and propecies are consistent with the rest of the teaching of Jesus,apostles and the prophets.

3.The bible refers to canonised scripture.This implies that there are some scriptural books which was not canonised and hence not in the bible.

5.The bible was compiled by a group of catholic bishops led by st Augustine of hippo in 393CE @ the synod of hippo.it was also ratified by the local councils of carthage held in 397CE and 417 CE

@First: How did you arrive at this?

@Second Bolded: Aren't those scripture important? On what grounds were they excluded?

mkmyers45: Assumptions for the basis of argument:

Hence i begin with three questions that are beginning for definitions:

- Who is a true christian?

Allow me to add my own voice.

Now to the first questiom, I would refer you to scriptures.

[b] Matthew 7:21-27.  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. [/b]

Now according to the teachings of Jesus, that's the definition of a true christian.

mkmyers45: What is Scripture,

Scripture can be defined as the sacred writings of Christianity contained in the Bible.

mkmyers45: How do we verify scripture?

there's nothing to verify...if you believe it, you believe it...if you don't, then fine. The idea of verifying makes no sense to me.

mkmyers45: What is the difference between Scripture and the Bible?

They have the same meaning if you ask me.

mkmyers45: How did we get the Bible?

The bible is the collection of sacred writings of the Christian religion, comprising the Old and New Testaments...it has been passed down through thousands of generations before finally getting to us. So I believe that's how we got it.

CrazyMan:
Allow me to add my own voice.

Now to the first questiom, I would refer you to scriptures.

[b] Matthew 7:21-27.  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. [/b]

Now according to the teachings of Jesus, that's the definition of a true christian.


Scripture can be defined as the sacred writings of Christianity contained in the Bible.


there's nothing to verify...if you believe it, you believe it...if you don't, then fine. The idea of verifying makes no sense to me.


They have the same meaning if you ask me.


The bible is the collection of sacred writings of the Christian religion, comprising the Old and New Testaments...it has been passed down through thousands of generations before finally getting to us. So I believe that's how we got it.

So what can be said to be the will of the father from that verse? Its coded...

How did the bible end up with 66 books and why should we not verify when the bible asks us to?

Can you expanciate on the passage of the bible through generations?

mkmyers45:
So what can be said to be the will of the father from that verse? Its coded...

From the passage, verse 24-25 clearly explains the will of the father.

mkmyers45: How did the bible end up with 66 books

The Bible has nothing to hide...

The bible itself mentions various books, that did not end up in the collection of books which were viewed as inspired of God.

John 21:25  And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

The bible wants us to focus on the book we have and avoid asking questions about the ones that aren't there or should have been there.

mkmyers45: and why should we not verify when the bible asks us to?

Remember our terms and condition...number 4 states that YOU PROVIDE REFERENCES AND SOURCES THAT SUPPORT YOUR STATEMENTS. WHEN QUOTING SOMEONE ELSE, so I'll reserve further comment until you provide me the bible verse that says we should verify the authentication of the bible.

mkmyers45:
Can you expanciate on the passage of the bible through generations?

From the biblical beginning of creation, God created the world...so the record of events that happened from Adam to Noah (when the earth was eventually destroyed) can be seen in Genesis 5.

Records from Noah to Abraham Genesis 11:10-31

Records from Abraham to Jesus can be seen in Matthew 1:1-16

Records of Esau (Edomites) Genesis 36...note I added it here because the bible didn't focus too much on Esau...but if go down to kings you would find out that the Edomites were mentioned...I believe that's why the bible kept his record.

Records of the adventures of the children of israel are detailed in the book of Numbers.

So that's how the bible was being passed on and on and on, until it finally got to us.

CrazyMan:
From the passage, verse 24-25 clearly explains the will of the father.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

What saying? all his sayings?

CrazyMan:
The Bible has nothing to hide...

The bible itself mentions various books, that did not end up in the collection of books which were viewed as inspired of God.

John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

The bible wants us to focus on the book we have and avoid asking questions about the ones that aren't there or should have been there.

Is inspired by God not scripture? How was the collection made? who made it?

CrazyMan:
From the biblical beginning of creation, God created the world...so the record of events that happened from Adam to Noah (when the earth was eventually destroyed) can be seen in Genesis 5.

Records from Noah to Abraham Genesis 11:10-31

Records from Abraham to Jesus can be seen in Matthew 1:1-16

Records of Esau (Edomites) Genesis 36...note I added it here because the bible didn't focus too much on Esau...but if go down to kings you would find out that the Edomites were mentioned...I believe that's why the bible kept his record.

Records of the adventures of the children of israel are detailed in the book of Numbers.

So that's how the bible was being passed on and on and on, until it finally got to us

Ok...How were news books accepted into the bible since it was over time? How were they verified to be truly God inspired?

Remember our terms and condition...number 4 states that YOU PROVIDE REFERENCES AND SOURCES THAT SUPPORT YOUR STATEMENTS. WHEN QUOTING SOMEONE ELSE, so I'll reserve further comment until you provide me the bible verse that says we should verify the authentication of the bible.

I Thes 5:21

Test everything. Hold on to the good.

mkmyers45: 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

What saying? all his sayings?

All his sayings refers to his teachings... Matthew 5:1, was when he began the teachings of a true christian. So take your time to read chapters 5,6 and 7 of matthew and I'm sure it would be much clearer to you.

mkmyers45: Is inspired by God not scripture? How was the collection made? who made it?

mkmyers45:
Ok...How were news books accepted into the bible since it was over time? How were they verified to be truly God inspired?

The bible says clearly that its books are all inspired by God...

2 Timothy 3:16.  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

mkmyers45: I Thes 5:21

Test everything. Hold on to the good.

That passage never said we should verify the authentication of the bible...it said prove all things, quench not the spirit, abstain from all appearance of evil, it has nothing to do with verifying the bible.

This theory is therefore unacceptable.

^^^^ I wonder what everything means in your dictionary

Is inspired by God not scripture? How was the
collection made? who made it? How were news books
accepted into the bible since it
was over time? How were they
verified to be truly God inspired?

The bible does not have just 66 books.It is ridiculous to say the bible has 66 books.The first bible that was compiled was the latin vulgate and it definitely does not just 66 books but rather 73 books

mkmyers45:
@chukwudi44

@Second Bolded: Aren't those scripture important? On what grounds were they excluded?

Guy, this is the best question i have ever heard asked by you.

Great question.

Did you notice that Chukwudi44 has pretended not to have seen it? Though it has been there for the past hrs, he has refused so far to give the reasons why they were excluded from the canon.

Pls, we will need to know the reasons WHY?

Please lets wait for him maybe he will later attend to this very essential question.
Peace

^^^Oga Sir, even you they dodge

Who told you I am dodging.I am a very busy man and only use my spare time on nl.

I was not present at the synod of hippo nor the council of carthage but I think the septuagint was the basis for the canonisation of the books of the OT.That is probably why books like enoch and jubilee were excluded because they were not in the septuagint.others like books of jasher,nathan,shemiah were no lost and no longer extant.

For the new testament I think books like the epistle of barnabas(not the gospel) ,gospel of hebrew,shepherd of hermas e.t.c were excluded because they were not sure about their authors.

These does not apply to the gnostic gospels which were never scriptures

Another major criteria the council were lookinh at were the books quoted by the apostolic and post apostolic fathers.

That is the books quoted in the writings of SS ignatius,clement,polycarp,ireneaus,Justin matyr e.t.c

chukwudi44:
I was not present at the synod of hippo nor the council of carthage but I think the

^^^^
hmmm!

@ truthislight, i have seen so many of your posts and i find it difficult to understand why jws continue to believe that only the 66 books in your bible are true when your bible clearly states other books not in the bible are also true. The bible said that all what happened in the reign of king A is recorded in book B. The book B is not even in the bible. So if we claim the bible is absolutely true, then we should believe that only the bible is true.

@truth, the reason you have 66 books in yours instead of more is that; you took your bible from the protestants. The protestants adopted the jewish cannon. In the council of jamnia, the jews rejected the books in the detrocannonicals, which was widely used among the jews before t he council of jamnia. The reason been that, the books were not written in the 'holy' language of the 'chosen people'. You know the jews with their ethnocentric attitude. These are people who believe taking a greek to the temple is desicrating the temple as they accused paul of doing when they arrested him in jerusalem. But tell me, which language is chosen and which one is not

truthislight:


^^^^
hmmm!

Wonder why you are running away...