Zikkyy:

Physics ke how?

I hope you know that your talking about an 'omniscient knowledge'?

Image123:
maybe, but note that Jesus knew, not that He made or destined him to it.

but remember that the fate of the betrayer was already sealed no? whoever it was he/she was stepping into an already written script..

Ihedinobi:

And you say so because............?

Like i said it was just a thought but i wasnt sure.

korrej:
Like i said it was just a thought but i wasnt sure.

But you are now, aren't you? Now what are you sure of and why are you sure of it? I just wanna know what you're going away with.

Delafruita:
in all fairness,you always try to reason out this issues as best as you can.it was quite a task reading the entire post(parts 1 and 2).however,all your conjectures are just that,conjectures.going by your analogy,when yahweh granted nebuchadnezzer victory over isreal,its not that yahweh granted him victory,its actually that yahweh removed himself from the equation and nebuchadnezzer won.

however,in the case of pharaoh,yahweh made it clear in his own book that he hardened the heart of pharoah because he wanted glory which he wont have gotten if pharaoh had just let them go when moses asked.as for judas,even his death was prophesied.peter said in acts that judas died and his bowels littered the field "so that the prophecy may be fulfilled".yahweh makes things happen so that his words dont go void.for example,matthew says joseph settle in nazareth so that the prophecy may be fulfilled that "he shall be a nazarene".
even the thirty pieces of silver was already recorded in psalms.his entire history had been written before he was even born.he had no say in the matter.he was just a pawn on yahweh's chessboard as are we all(according to christians).

Ok, so I don't launch into another thesis on these matters, I better ask you a question: why do you call my explanations conjectures?

@bolded: that's an erroneous view. God is actually one of the players at the game. We are each of us in a very complex chess game with Him, each other and our environment. We are not pawns on His board. We are His opponents or His helpers as the case may be.

Ihedinobi:

But you are now, aren't you? Now what are you sure of and why are you sure of it? I just wanna know what you're going away with.

I asked myself these questions and tried to answer them in evaluating myself to know what im going away with:
Was Judas mentioned specifically in the bible to be the betrayal-No
Why did he betray Jesus-Lust for money
Did Jesus saw this coming-Yes
Did Jesus do anything to avert Judas being the betrayal-Probably yes
Why did Judas betray Jesus nonetheless-He had that thing(unrepenting lust for money)and the devil used it as a point to reach him
Should he be called a bad seed-Yes
Why-He had an unrepenting heart
In conclusion, i think God allows us to choose and what we take becomes our destiny just like being good or bad. Although there are rare cases in which a person does what God wants unknowingly and this is mystery(like the life of Saul in the new testament).

mkmyers45: It could have been anybody no? But at the end of the day it will just be ONE person doing that one thing that could have been done by anybody yes?

You are avoiding my question what's your idea of truth?

mkmyers45: It could have been anybody no? But at the end of the day it will just be ONE person doing that one thing that could have been done by anybody yes?

Yes, it 'just one person doing that one thing'. The issue here is whether there was an audition or screening exercise (conducted before man was created)and judas was selected as the man to do the job. To ensure the job was carried out, he was programmed to make only the pre-determined choices that would lead to him betraying Jesus. My question is this; you believe this is the truth abi? so what is the basis for arriving at such conclusion? is it what is written in the bible? or is it your interpretation of what is written? or is it based on your knowledge of physics?

Zikkyy:

You are avoiding my question what's your idea of truth?



Yes, it 'just one person doing that one thing'. The issue here is whether there was an audition or screening exercise (conducted before man was created)and judas was selected as the man to do the job. To ensure the job was carried out, he was programmed to make only the pre-determined choices that would lead to him betraying Jesus. My question is this; you believe this is the truth abi? so what is the basis for arriving at such conclusion? is it what is written in the bible? or is it your interpretation of what is written? or is it based on your knowledge of physics?

Well truth is not universal so i can partly say it was written and partly my view too which is directly related to physics

why are you equating a machine to god?

i recognise your insincerity and dishonesty even before this thread, but just to oblige you and perhaps help others.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.
When Jesus wanted to explain the Kingdom of God to people, He often used things that they were used to, and that they could relate with. Hence, phrases like "the kingdom of God is like unto"

but remember that the fate of the betrayer was already sealed no? whoever it was he/she was stepping into an already written script..

i already explained it, but you decided to fail to grasp it. Many others would pass, don't worry. The fate of the betrayer was already known, not sealed.

Image123:
i recognise your insincerity and dishonesty even before this thread, but just to oblige you and perhaps help others.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.
When Jesus wanted to explain the Kingdom of God to people, He often used things that they were used to, and that they could relate with. Hence, phrases like "the kingdom of God is like unto"


i already explained it, but you decided to fail to grasp it. Many others would pass, don't worry. The fate of the betrayer was already known, not sealed.

so it was possible that the prophecy could have failed no?

@Other Bolded: And i do yours too but no yawa

mkmyers45:

so it was possible that the prophecy could have failed no?

@Other Bolded: And i do yours too but no yawa

you do not understand a prophecy. It is seeing the future, not just writing or making the future. The future comes.

mkmyers45:

so it was possible that the prophecy could have failed no?

The prophecy could not have failed. not possible.

Zikkyy:

The prophecy could not have failed. not possible.

then indeed someone had to do it and of course the identity of this said person would not matter? Jesus had pity on this said person and even wished he was not born why?

Image123:
you do not understand a prophecy. It is seeing the future, not just writing or making the future. The future comes.

Don't mind the young man jare i don't understand his obsession with 'prophecy', as if it's prophecy that determines the course of events.

Zikkyy:

Don't mind the young man jare i don't understand his obsession with 'prophecy', as if it's prophecy that determines the course of events.

Can you educate me on the significance of prophecy in relation to the future?

mkmyers45:

then indeed someone had to do it and of course the identity of this said person would not matter?

whether the identity was known or not is not an issue. It does not change the fact that it could have been anybody.

mkmyers45:

Jesus had pity on this said person and even wished he was not born why?

I believe i already answered this question.

mkmyers45:

Can you educate me on the significance of prophecy in relation to the future?

You know you are behind on your school fees i don't see how you'll get a proper education if you don't pay up

Prophecy talks about future events, it does not decide the event. you need to be able to separate these two. Prophet Joagbaje under divine inspiration can come here and prophesy that mkyers45 will read this post. Your logging on to NL was not determined by the prophecy.

Zikkyy:

You know you are behind on your school fees i don't see how you'll get a proper education if you don't pay up

Prophecy talks about future events, it does not decide the event. you need to be able to separate these two. Prophet Joagbaje under divine inspiration can come here and prophesy that mkyers45 will read this post. Your logging on to NL was not determined by the prophecy.

Kindly Ignoring your insults

How then will the prophecy be fulfilled if it dosent account for actions that lead to it?

mkmyers45:

Kindly Ignoring your insults

My apologies if that's the way you see it. It was never my intention.

mkmyers45:

Can you educate me on the significance of prophecy in relation to the future?

The way i see it; prophecy only tells you what will happen in future. It's a notification, nothing more.

mkmyers45:

How then will the prophecy be fulfilled if it dosent account for actions that lead to it?

It has nothing to do with accounting for actions that leads to the future event coming to pass. A prophet coming here to inform the house that mkmyers45 will be reading this post at a future date has nothing to do actions leading to you opening this page. He's just passing information.

Image123: bad seed fulfilling negative prophecy. he allowed satan to enter into him as the serpent see the greed door wide open.

then if that it's true then why will you called it a negative prophecy i think paul says jesus die for sin right ..... but i never read in the teaching of christ where jesus said he will die for the sins of the world...... if that it's true jesus did not need to ask God for forgiveness upon those who killed him because God will know his death means a lot o the world .

Image123:
you do not understand a prophecy. It is seeing the future, not just writing or making the future. The future comes.

O man, what the hell are u saying. How can the future be known but not sealed. If the future isn't sealed why then is it seen?

All that happend wit Jesus was sealed. If anybody apart from judas has betrayed Jesus, the story today would have beend different.

Judas life style, his personalty, his desires, his greed all was a chain reaction that would offset the death of Jesus. Imagin if it had been peter? He would probablu had repented the moment he was supposed to kiss and betrayed Jesus and would Jesus have still been killed at the time he was killed? If he wasn't killed at that time will u be tell the story of Jesu.

judas only was meant to betray Jesus and it happened that because God the almaigthy wanted it so.

Stop thinking for God. He doesn't need such favour from u.

mkmyers45:

then /indeed someone had to do it and of course the identity of this said person would not matter? Jesus had pity on this said /person and even wished he was not born why?

do you really know the meaning of the death of christ on the cross? remember they are things that it's not in the bible that will be taught by comforter right ...... they are many thing we don't understand about God and jesus

Very sad story of Judas iscariot.
Acts 1:17" For he was numbered with us and had obtained part of this ministry" and
Acts 1:25 "That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which by Judas by trangression fell, that might go to his own place"
What a disaster! An exalted position of an apostle. Even Paul could not count himself to be called an apostle.
Judas chose by sinning. He heard the word "betrayal" from the mouth of his master, yet he went ahead to betray his master. I believed Judas had done something like this before and there was no problem, Jesus escaped.
Judas was tempted by the love of money.
James 1: 13-15 "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Then when lust hath conceived, it bring forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death"
he could not resist the money and at the same time believing that Jesus would escape. He was blinded by the spirit of greed and covetousness, he fell into the trap prepared for him before he was born.
Judas was a son of perdition. Hear Jesus: John 17:12 " While i was with them in the world, i kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me i have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfiled."


The sad thing about this event is that what happened to Judas is now happening to some careless christians, People never learn. All the various events in the Bible are written for us, so that we can be careful and do not fall into the same error. Alas! History is repeating itself, and history will keep repeating itself because people never listen. They seem to be saying; "Oh! The money is big, i can't resist it, i pray God will forgive me, the money is tempting, i just have to do it. God is love, he will always forgive. He always does."
They have forgotten that God cannot be mocked, whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he reap.

Brethren, there is no amount of preaching, prayer, fasting or pleading we can do to stop the "son of perdition" from going to hell. They will never listen. There are plenty of them in our various churches today, even on nairaland, they are on this forum, they will never change. It becomes a mystery on what we can do for them.

@op, God bless you for this thread.
God2man.

@God2man. God bless you too
@All. Now I feel like reading the bible unceasingly...

korrej:
I asked myself these questions and tried to answer them in evaluating myself to know what im going away with:
Was Judas mentioned specifically in the bible to be the betrayal-No
Why did he betray Jesus-Lust for money
Did Jesus saw this coming-Yes
Did Jesus do anything to avert Judas being the betrayal-Probably yes
Why did Judas betray Jesus nonetheless-He had that thing(unrepenting lust for money)and the devil used it as a point to reach him
Should he be called a bad seed-Yes
Why-He had an unrepenting heart
In conclusion, i think God allows us to choose and what we take becomes our destiny just like being good or bad. Although there are rare cases in which a person does what God wants unknowingly and this is mystery(like the life of Saul in the new testament).

I guess that's acceptable.

About the bolded, I think that it's necessary to say that there's nothing even nearly as consistent as God is. With Him, says the Bible, there is no shadow of turning. He is more constant than night and day. His Will is that each man be totally responsible for his choice and his destiny. He will not choose for anyone. He will encourage one choice (and always the good, beneficial one) and not another, but ultimately, the man himself will choose, not God.

For every man, without exception, Judas included, God's desire is good, not evil to give us a good, a beautiful end. But God is God and knows that not everyone will choose His good end. That is the meaning of His foreknowledge of people.

Nobody is ever compelled or manipulated into doing God's Will. Such service is unacceptable to God. But God's Wisdom is utterly without equal so even wicked choices meant to confound His good desires for us are used by Him to accomplish His Will. He uses them if and when they are made. He does not need them to accomplish His Purposes. He can use good choices also and, in fact, prefers them.