ekt_bear: I dunno. The human sacrifice stuff in my ancestral religion is a big part of the reason my ancestor (great-grandfather? or maybe great-great) abandoned it for Christianity.

MacDaddy01:


Liar. There is no record of slavery in West Africa before foriegners. Prisoners of war were beheaded or killed. In my village, it is called efa. In the past, enemy tribes were sacrificed or killed. Slaves were never sold as a commodity.



Farm labour came from the wives and the many children of men in those days. Why would we need slaves? Even the king had servants and the servants had their own living quarters and did not serve in chains where I come from in Niger delta.




Keep lying against you ancestors to protect your foriegn religion

Revolva:
Truth talk jare don't mind all of them even the written text book they have read about history is partially correct .the westerners jave elements they put together in education to confuse us also - to also make us believe that there were slave trades existing before they came - haba lies --africa is lost in his own history

wirinet:

My friend you lie or you are simply ignorant. Let me repeat load and clear "THERE WERE NO WARS IN BLACK AFRICA BEFORE THE COMING OF THE WHITE MAN - ARABS AND EUROPEANS". Even the wikipedia link you provided shows islamic influences in the first empires in black africa - songhai, mali and kanem bornu empires.

The Benin and Oyo empires were the influenced by the Europeans, who armed the kings to the detriment of their neighbours, first for slave trade and later for agricultural trade.

Before the white man came an african had no need to conquer and dominate his neighbour. That was why we had so many small tribes cohabiting within a small geographical space.

So please give me just one example of pre-arab/european war in black africa.

Tisa: I can't help but wonder how nigeria n nigerians will be if we had held on to the religions of our ancestors rather than the two imported religions that has given way to the prevalence or everything bad in our societies.

I know we will want to say things like "God forbid" but truly most of the evils happening today would not be happening if people know they will receive instant judgment from the likes of Sango, Ayelala, Ogun, Amadioha etc. Imagine a pastor violating an 11yrs old girl in the name of deliverance or the common wasting of lives in the name of money rituals. I know in Yoruba land that if someone was killed unlawfully by another person, the family of the dead can summon the spirit of the dead relative to go torment n kill those that committed such evil against it hence hearing of people being killed in those days was rare but these days the family of the dead will "leave it to God to Judge".


I think all this looting by our politicians, robbing of innocent motorists by latsma or is it lastma, ritual killings, religious robbery etc are all common cos the perpetrators know they can ask GOD for forgiveness b4 they die and will be forgiven hence d dead person died in vain.

What do u guys think? I think we shd retrace our steps cos it seems these two imported religions doesn't suit us.

Please I want us to debate this as matured people. Make ur case with good points and don't let's resort to abusing ourselves. We need to move forward as a people. Since I was a todler people ve been hoping nigeria will get better, praying and fasting and now as old as I am we are still praying and fasting, that's 2 generations o. It shd n MUST stop!

Thanks.

Tisa: I can't help but wonder how nigeria n nigerians will be if we had held on to the religions of our ancestors rather than the two imported religions that has given way to the prevalence or everything bad in our societies.

I know we will want to say things like "God forbid" but truly most of the evils happening today would not be happening if people know they will receive instant judgment from the likes of Sango, Ayelala, Ogun, Amadioha etc. Imagine a pastor violating an 11yrs old girl in the name of deliverance or the common wasting of lives in the name of money rituals. I know in Yoruba land that if someone was killed unlawfully by another person, the family of the dead can summon the spirit of the dead relative to go torment n kill those that committed such evil against it hence hearing of people being killed in those days was rare but these days the family of the dead will "leave it to God to Judge".

I think all this looting by our politicians, robbing of innocent motorists by latsma or is it lastma, ritual killings, religious robbery etc are all common cos the perpetrators know they can ask GOD for forgiveness b4 they die and will be forgiven hence d dead person died in vain.

What do u guys think? I think we shd retrace our steps cos it seems these two imported religions doesn't suit us.

Please I want us to debate this as matured people. Make ur case with good points and don't let's resort to abusing ourselves. We need to move forward as a people. Since I was a todler people ve been hoping nigeria will get better, praying and fasting and now as old as I am we are still praying and fasting, that's 2 generations o. It shd n MUST stop!

Thanks.

capricon:

I will assume you are one of these things
1. you are young and ignorant

2. All u do with yourself is drink, party and chase after women just to satisfy ur urge

3. illiterate

well let me give a little home work. Go and read about the OYO empire and their wars with the NUPE and DAHOMEY kingdom and even the rebellion of EGBAS from the oppressive OYO kingdom.

pls do not reply till you have read it.

Martian:

If you want to be a realistic, you will admit that both the preacher and the traditional man are snake oil salesmen using their position and their victims' ignorance and gullibily to carry out their atrocities. Your argument boils down to, "at least the christian preacher only rapes and doesn't kill".

The fact is there is no difference between the ancestral religions and the pathetic ones you people follow now. People like you are always quick to bring up the ignorant acts of the old beliefs, while ignoring the ridiculous antics of your cherished jews and their god in your bible; and the actions of christians in recorded history.
Christianity used to be more barbaric than it is today, just like the ancestral religions of different cultures, so pointing out human sacrificies and the likes as arguments against the old religions is asinine. Just like christianity evolved, the ancestral religions can also evolve. At the end of the day, christianity is bullsh#t, just like the ancestral beliefs are bullsh#t. So get off your high horse, and realise that yahweh is as "unique" as zeus and Amadioha.

wirinet:

I am perplex by your post above, it does not qualify as a debate or argument. It is just an incoherent blabber. You left the topic at hand and started blabbing nonsense.

Let me respond to your personal attacks.
1. I am not young and anything but ignorant. I am sure i am older and more educated than you. I hold a masters degree in architecture, i studied extensively histories of african societies through their architecture. So i appreciate arab and european influences on our culture much more than you could ever do.

2. I honestly do not know how you came to these assumptions or how it has any bearing to the topic at hand. Are you sure you did not type the above after an abuse of a banded substance?

3. Repetition of no. 1, so refer to my answer for no. 1.

If you want to educate me that the Oyo empire was created before the coming of the Europeans that is before the 14th century, why not show me the link or refer me to the book. That is what a supposedly educated person would do.

m.k.o2005:

A fool has said in his heart that there is no God !
No matter how any true Christian try to convince any one who does not believe to believe in God and follow HIS word(JESUS),may just be a wasted effort.Let the non believer hear you and above all,see you live what you preach and you have done ur own part.Christians shouldn't engage in a heated debate with an on believer.The reason is that you can only win them over by the word of God and the word they don't even want to hear,so how possible?With God all things are possible.No wonder christ asked his disciples to leave any home where they are not welcomed as they go about preaching the good news.You can have a debate with a christian who believes in the bible but still see somethings differently as a result of inadequate study of the word or doctrinal issues and it will be fruitful.
There were people and we still have them today who engage in acts that are far from Christianity or contradicts the word and just becos they attend church or profess Christianity.These guys aren't christians.
I rest my case.God bless you all

Rossikk:

This sounds like a lie you invented to defend your imported christian faith. What proof do you have of this claim? You don't even know if it was your great grandfather or great great grandfather, yet you 'know' that this same person rejected his ancestral religion for christianity ''because of this human sacrifice stuff''. The real truth of course is that most of our ancestors adopted christianity because all public resources were diverted by the new colonial rulers to those who embraced christianity, those who partook of the new dispensation by attending missionary schools and becoming 'western educated'. The first thing you did upon entering missionary schools was abandon your traditional religion, which was dismissed as savage and heathen by the christian priests who ran them. So if you wished yourself and children to 'do well' under the new colonial system, you HAD to abandon your religion. So it was an economic decision, one based on the sheer necessity for survival, that made Africans gradually abandon their ancient faiths for christianity. I am VERY CERTAIN that those were the considerations playing your ancestor's mind in his decision, and most certainly not ''this human sacrifice stuff''.

One more thing, the incidence of ''human sacrifice'' in African religion was NOT AT ALL common to all African religions at all times. Many, many communities throughout Africa knew no such practice. Where it was known, it was a rarity, occurring perhaps once a year in a given community. It was merely a feature which the colonialists noted in one or two communities and then expanded in their reports to include ALL African religion. Reason? To justify their looting of the continent predicated on their purported ''civilizational'' mission.

MacDaddy01:


Yep. It is a sad case where an African will insult his history just to defend a foreign religion

ba7man: This is a topic i love. Christianity is a religion in which its foundation is "LOVE". Trust me, if u see ppl doin evil things and they claim to be Christians,they are not following the bible and also Christians base their beliefs on the teachings of Christ. Our traditional religions were relions of "FEAR". Our ancestors worshiped things they didnt understand. THey see a large tree and instead of dominating it(to make tables and chairs) as the God of christianity commands,they worship it. They even worshippd chickenpox "sapona"(like how daft can you get?). Fear restricts discovery and thats why our societies were backwards doin all sorts of funny things when the white christians "dominated" the seas to get to our lands to "dominate" us with our backwards religions.

vislabraye: It stll baffles me that people fail to see the benefits of the "foreign" religion over traditional religion.
Female circumcision is it good or bad?
Human sacrifice?
Telling a woman to drink the water used to wash her husband corpse?
A man offers his wife to his friend when he visits?
Killing twins?
Worshipping cows, taking good care of them at the expense of your child?
Worshipping snakes?
Sacrificing chicken or goat at a round about?
Eyo masquerade flogging you because you cross their path? There are many many more. Even the core traditionists like Wole Soyinka can never support any of the barbaric acts.

Some people are talking about the inquisition and the killing of witches by Christians.
My question is this: Did christianity encourage the killing of witches when it came to Africa?

Theshrewdboy:
,but consider this:how will feel to have continued in abject ignorance of the existence of GOD

vislabraye: It stll baffles me that people fail to see the benefits of the "foreign" religion over traditional religion.

Female circumcision is it good or bad?

Human sacrifice?

Telling a woman to drink the water used to wash her husband corpse?

A man offers his wife to his friend when he visits?

Killing twins?

Worshipping cows, taking good care of them at the expense of your child?

Worshipping snakes?

Sacrificing chicken or goat at a round about?

Some people are talking about the inquisition and the killing of witches by Christians.
My question is this: Did christianity encourage the killing of witches when it came to Africa?

CrazyMan:
No I won't agree with you...cos traditional gods are far worse than christianity and islam put together.

Maybe on good day, sit your folks down, and ask them to give you a flash back of how they worshiped their traditional gods...I'm sure that by the time they finish explaining to you the killings, the human and animal sacrifices, the unnecessary restrictions to certain places, the embargo placed on women restricting them from gaining access into certain shrines..etc. You'll have a change of heart.

And what makes you think that sango, amadioha, ogun etc worship is preferable to worshiping.

You fail to realise that God is forgiving...all others you mentioned aren't you get instant punishment for your trespasses.

God isn't bothered about your sacrifice...he wants your heart, the gods mentioned above all require human sacrifices from their subjects. Failure to keep up would lead to death.

God is very patient, he gives you time to think and make up your mind...the gods mentioned above torment you and force you to serve them.

So my dear there's no need to long for the worship of evil spirits cos believe me, they would do you more harm than good.

Haven't you heard of traditional deities whom their worshipers offer the blood of young innocent virgins constantly...for reasons best know to them.

If I may ask which evil would you tolerate of the two...a preacher violating an underage child or some traditional uneducated men using the blood of your daughters to serve their deity?

So in conclusion, all evil doers would be punished...it doesn't matter if you repent or not...the point to note is that you're definately going to be punished for your evil deeds.

If you're advocating for traditional worship, state your reason and why you feel it should preferred to christian and islamic worship.

CrazyMan:
I must commend your observations...

But on the area of slavery...slavery was highly political therefore it had nothing to do with religion.

I'm sure that in your research, you didn't omit the area where thousands of missionaries died while spreading the gospel of christ in Africa.

On the area of murders committed in the name of christ, could you please enlighten me more on that area, [size=16pt]cos I don't seem to comprehend that statement[/size].

Billyonaire:

Young man, when you talk, always remember that your mind is on parade. You have successfully derailed a very handsome thread to buffer your condom thought system. If Ancestral Religion was so excellent, why did our Ancestors wish that we their offsprings dont live and think the way they did ? They welcomed the missionaries, donated plots of land for free so that churches be built and embraced reading and writing. The fact, that you are sitting there and typing on your computer is a result of that wise decision that your ancestors made, I believe if they didnt make that decision, by now you would have been worshiping the god of thunder in some distant forests, did I just say god of thunder ? Alas, there is no god of thunder. Foreign religion brought about education which thought me about magnetic clouds and thats what you would have been worshiping. Ignorance kills more than foreign religion.

Tomeseen: If christianity is from men, it shall die but if it's from God. It shall stand n d gates of hell shall not prevail. I av dis to say to Crazyman, u are an intelligent man. May God increase ur knowledge. Let every man search within his/her heart n choose him today whom he/she shall serve. It isn't enof being a xtian/muslim dis days. All we are holding up to is faith n hope. The world is in shambles n am astounded some peeps are still much buried in d past. D milk is split, yet my fellow africans are bemoaning d fate of their ancestors who are eida restin or wailing. I don't like blind arguments, it shows 1)how intelligent u really are. 2)how stupid u'd like to be. If i find anytin wrong wit my religion or d God i serve, there are no slave masters around to force me to continue. I take d next exit shaperly. We are in our comfy beds n surroundings, whereas someone somewhere is going tru unimaginable pain n he/she is asking if there is a God somewhere or mayhaps our planet earth is a big joke to him. Walahi d evil dt men do dis days, right dis minute d devil is plenty scared of mortals nowadays. There is dis yoruba proverb dt says 'if ur household/family death dosent kill you, d strange one wud definitely neva kill you'. Mayb we all shud look at slavery very well again n cast our stones at d proper 'first culprit' in dis case to me are our very own broda who capture us for sale to d white men, who is to blame d white men for being greedy to want more slave dn our brodas can safely steal. I find it ironic indeed dt a strange man who can't speak my language, who don't know d wild animals i abide with, who can't stay in my sun long without gettin burnt, who can't enjoy my moonlit nights witout fear of my mosquitoes, who don't know my land n terrain would capture me in a forest i grew up in n cart me away, without him aving some help, in dis case from my african brodas. Finally pls, d past is gone only to be remembered, we d future generation shud know better n make amends. I discriminate not, come in peace is all i ask. Thanks

mimifonwon: This is what i believe, ... i believe that if our traditional believes are practiced as much as christianity or islam that nigeria would be better, infact most african countries will be better off. If you think of it...subsets of christianity like catholic is mainly accepted by africans because it is basically kinda like what most people term our "pagan" traditional religion.. The pope=babalawo..saints=dieties...and so on.most people dont want to admit it but thats why many africans are more catholic than any other subset, if you want prove read african in latin america, then you will understand that the only difference between our traditional religion and certain branches of christianity is that the people who commit the crimes dont face judgements and feel they can do anything, but in our traditional religion there is no forgiveness, rather the Gods get their revenge.

capricon:


Nice, its good too see a pagan hausa person which is very rare. i thought they were all die hard islamic followers. But tell me do u practice your faith openly without persecution or stigma?

PAGAN 9JA:


you will see many soon. we are not boko haram and are not meant to be. some things have just gone wrong in recent times.

many of us practice openly. some of us do it in private due to problems. our Hausa muslim neigbours are aware but they generally overlook it. sometimes the fanatic ones try to make attempts to convert us especially mosque leaders, local imam, etc.

recently we have seen a large influx of european christian missionaries into our areas who are trying hard to convert us. but the muslims drive them away because being Hausa, they prefer us to christans. it is a very strange balance right now but our condition can worsen anytime soon. more prone to christian conversions are those in the extreme East areas near Niger, Kotangara, etc. there are other Hausa sub-tribe too , with their own version of Hasua religion. the demand for us generally rises during important festivalsm durbars of emirs, Saarkis, etc. this is because we represent the real Hausa and know the right way to display culture. Our priests even bless the annual Argungu Fishing Festival.