ijawkid: @all trinitarians....

All my efforts put in on this forum is to agree with Jesus's stern and clear words when he said ::: The Father (Yahweh) is greater than I am(Jesus)...

And that Jesus has A GOD over Him....

That's my job here.....

That's all I wanna prove on this forum till thy kingdom come.....

If many persons will blind fold there eyes to accept this truth,then I think the trinity has really done so much harm to many....

........

Goshen360: When Adam was confronted with his sin, he immediately passed the blame onto the woman, who immediately passed the blame onto the serpent. Yet, when the Serpent (Satan) was confronted with his sin, he offered no excuse. The closer you are to truth (i.e., God) the less you can make excuses. Satan, though not right with God, does walk in the very presence of God (Job 1:6-7). Because he walks in the very presence of such great light, there is nowhere to hide the truth and thus pass the buck.

If, as creatures of choice, we allow Satan to beguile us (as he did Eve - II Cor 11:3) into trying to invent some kind of happiness for ourselves apart from God, we will find ourselves (as did Adam and Eve - Gen 3) unhappy and without God. We know snakes don’t eat dust; they eat rodents, other reptiles, and insects. Skeptics and infidels, however, love to use this verse to point out the “discrepancies” of the Scriptures. “Dust thou shall eat” is simply a pun. It’s another way of saying that snakes are built low to the ground. It’s like saying, “She’s cute as a button.” We know people aren’t buttons. It’s just a play on words.

What’s amazing is how much time and effort skeptics and infidels actually waste trying to prove the Scriptures inaccurately. If something is or isn’t true and it doesn’t affect eternity, why waste precious time fighting it?

Goshen360:

I dey my dearest brother. Unfortunately, I am not part of this anymore. I do not have problem when the bible calls Jesus Christ, God likewise the Father and the Holy Spirit. Hence I decided not to get involve in all this debate going in circle. I have told you in the past, Trinity or no Trinity, we remain one in Christ. If the bible calls the Father, God; Jesus Christ, God and the Holy Spirit, God; why should it bother us? I take the bible as God's word and stand by that. If it is because of the word "Trinity" that is not found in the bible that you guys try to fight it, then that is your choice. I can't hold it against you. I will send you an email tonight my brother. You take care and God bless you.

Goshen360:

My dearest brother. I will NEVER continue this debate with you. Like I said in my comment above, If the bible calls the Father God, Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit God.....I don't think I have problem with that sir. If it is the word "Trinity" that doesn't appear in the bible, that's fine but for me to fight against bible truth, I will NEVER do it.

truthislight:

seeing the word "grander" seems to be optional to you.

truthislight:
hanging on to "straws".

the point is that their are many "saviour" at different levels, on this note, Jesus christ is a greater saviour, if their are many "saviour", why cant Yahweh the Initiator of salvation not qualify for the title saviour?

truthislight:

is first and the last a "name" as in exclusive or it is contextual?

debosky:

Grander scale implies only the size is different - however the difference is far more fundamental.



There is only one Saviour - Jehovah. He is THE Saviour - if Jesus is also THE Saviour then he is God!

ijawkid:

If moses is saviour ,then moses is God too....

Jesus is called an"" apostle""......

All the 12 are also called apostles....


Are the apostles Jesus??

Or is Jesus the same with peter,john etc??

debosky:

frosbel: Debosky , while you at it with your comrade, can you kindly help me understand how God will call God my God

8 But about the Son he {i.e. God The Father} says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.

9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.”

Enigma:

Look in here ----- carefully. You might just see the answer or at least beginnings of it.

Hebrews 1 (NIV)




Please note these two things [oi]carefully[/i].

1. God the Father called The Son Jesus "O God".

2. The passage also says to Jesus ---- "God, your God".

frosbel:

Debosky , while you at it with your comrade, can you kindly help me understand how God will call God my God

debosky:

Do you understand how Mighty 'god' will call God my God?

frosbel:

Mighty god is not Almighty god.

I thought this was explained to you a few pages away

Enigma: frosbel, frosbel, frosbel

For your own sake ------- are you really interested in what the Bible says at all?

Are you interested in what God The Father Himself says?

Are you interested in what Jesus Christ says?


If God The Father says something are you so conceited to treat what God the Father says with levity?

debosky:

I didn't say they were the same thing did I? I simply asked, do you understand the above?

Please humour me - once you answer I will answer your question.

But God said about his Son, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. The scepter in your kingdom is a scepter for justice.

frosbel:

Humour you ?

Your comments alone are enough to write the script for a comedy .

debosky:

Stop being foolish - I am talking about THE SAVIOUR, not one of many.



You need to coach yourself first.

An apostle is different from The apostle, just as The Saviour is different from A Saviour. There can be numerous 'a saviours' but only one 'The saviour'.

You do not comprehend what 'exactly the same' but on a 'grander scale' means, you do not comprehend the difference between 'a saviour' and 'The saviour'.

You are completely unable to understand these are basic grammatical differences so I will refrain from proceeding with you to prevent further circular arguments.

Enigma: @ frosbel

Hebrews 1:8 (GWT)



Words of God the Father ------ not Enigma's words . . . . . . .

Enigma: @ frosbel

Hebrews 1:8 (GWT)



Words of God the Father ------ not Enigma's words . . . . . . .

frosbel:


Hebrews 1:8

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

There is some uncertainty as to the precise translation of this verse. Two possibilities exist:
"Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever" (A.V.)
"God is thy throne for ever and ever" (R.S.V. mg.)

Since only the first of these translations is useful for the trinitarian, it will be assumed that this is the correct translation.

"Therefore God, even thy God" (vs. 9) is evidence that Christ is not the "Eternal Son". Since the Father is the God of Jesus, then clearly Jesus is not himself "Very God". (See also John 20:17).

Hebrews 1:8 is a quotation from Psalm 45:6. In this Psalm the Hebrew word "elohim" is translated "God". The word "elohim" is used of Moses relationship with Pharaoh: "And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god {elohim} to Pharaoh". (Exod. 7:1). It also is used of the judges of Israel. (Psa. 82:6 cf. John 10:34; Exod. 22:9, 28).Persons who are divinely appointed and made strong by Yahweh are referred to as "God", but this does not imply they are persons within the Godhead.

In "the world to come" (Hebrews 2:5), the Son will be called "The mighty God" (Isaiah 9:6), although "now we see not yet all things put under him." (Hebrews 2:8 ). In the Kingdom Age, the Son will reign with the power and authority of his Father. (1 Cor. 15:24-28 ). The writer to the Hebrews points out, however, that the "more excellent name" obtained by the Son is by virtue of his personal worthiness and elevation by his Father, and not by the Son re-claiming divested powers of the Godhead, as trinitarians assert: "Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." (Hebrews 1:9).

ijawkid:

It might surprise you to know that there are about 3 ways in which that verse was translated from the original texts...

But trinitarians chose one because they want to hold on to that pagan formular...

But the next verse (9) says that God that was annointed has a God....

And many scriptures have proven that Jesus has a Father and God....and that we share the same God with Jesus....

You guys need to throw away the trinity dogma...

Its spurious and useless....


Please pick up a GOODnews bible and look up the foot note for hebrews 1:8...

When you do that come back and let's discuss......

Ihedinobi:




True to type, guys. ....lol......

frosbel:

The one who lacks original thought is back again

Don't leave in a hurry , your thinking caps might just arrive in time to assist you .

debosky:

You tell me. Point out where this "name" has been used anywhere in the bible except for in reference to God Almighty - excluding the one in question of course.

I posit that if there is no other reference in the bible to first and the last except to God ALmighty, then there is no basis for making a 'contextual' interpretation in this sole case.

debosky:

Stop being foolish - I am talking about THE SAVIOUR, not one of many.



You need to coach yourself first.

An apostle is different from The apostle, just as The Saviour is different from A Saviour. There can be numerous 'a saviours' but only one 'The saviour'.

You do not comprehend what 'exactly the same' but on a 'grander scale' means, you do not comprehend the difference between 'a saviour' and 'The saviour'.

You are completely unable to understand these are basic grammatical differences so I will refrain from proceeding with you to prevent further circular arguments.

truthislight:

is this how you proof the TRINTY the central doctrine of christiandom?

*sigh*


should not a central doctrine be written all over the scriptures?

Do we need to used touch light to look for it in the broad day light?

truthislight:

is this how you proof the TRINTY the central doctrine of christiandom?

*sigh*

should not a central doctrine be written all over the scriptures?

Do we need to used touch light to look for it in the broad day light?

frosbel:

God as in GOD and Jesus Christ as a god.

brainpulse:

Blasphemer please show me in the bible where Jesus was refered to as god (small g)

8 But about the Son he {i.e. God The Father} says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.

9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.”