Enigma:


Or, for that matter, as "a god"?

Ah, let me remind our friends of just one of the scriptures referring to Jesus as God; this one using the words of God the Father Himself.

Hebrews 1 (NIV)





(Edited)

It might surprise u to know that,that verse was applied to solomon 1st and then to the greater solomon(Jesus)......


Keep deluding yourself.......

That verse says Jesus has a God....don't u get it??

And that ,that God that is God over Jesus appointed him(Jesus)....

Yahweh is greater than Jesus...

Concur and stay blessed......

ijawkid:

It might surprise u to know that,that verse was applied to solomon 1st and then to the greater solomon(Jesus)......


Keep deluding yourself.......

That verse says Jesus has a God....don't u get it??

And that ,that God that is God over Jesus appointed him(Jesus)....

Yahweh is greater than Jesus...

Concur and stay blessed......

Leave Enigma alone,he has been dribbling himself and others for a long time now without scoring any goals

@ frosbel

One more 'dribbling' for you. Oh, I have also gone to the trouble of selecting two special Bible versions for you.

Romans 9:5

(Aramaic Bible in Plain English)

And the Patriarchs; and from them The Messiah appeared in the flesh, who is The God Who is over all, to Whom are praises and blessings to the eternity of eternities, amen.

NLT

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are their ancestors, and Christ himself was an Israelite as far as his human nature is concerned. And he is God, the one who rules over everything and is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.

I suppose I shouldn't forget your favourite?

NIV

Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.

truthislight:

is this how you proof the TRINTY the central doctrine of christiandom?

*sigh*

should not a central doctrine be written all over the scriptures?

Do we need to used touch light to look for it in the broad day light?

As an explanation for why it is impossible to define a definition, which is what the Trinity or the "Godness" of God is, I require you to contemplate and answer the question: what is human? And, please feel free to draw on all the sciences to answer that question. Also be prepared to explain any difficulties encountered in your answer.

Enigma: @ frosbel

One more 'dribbling' for you. Oh, I have also gone to the trouble of selecting two special Bible versions for you.

Romans 9:5

(Aramaic Bible in Plain English)

NLT

I suppose I shouldn't forget your favourite?

NIV

This passage is appropriately explained on the basis of God-manifestation. Christ is "over all, God blessed for ever" because this power and authority has been delegated to him. (John 5:19, 30; 1 Cor. 15:24-28).

Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does - John 5:19

By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me - John 5:30


New International Version (©1984)
Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.....For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.- 1 Corinthians 15:24-28



Those who act for God are referred to as "God" in the Old Testament. (See Exod. 23:20, 21).1 Paul elsewhere makes it clear, however, that "the head of Christ is God." (1 Cor. 11:3). The Son is not "co-equal" therefore, with the Father.

New International Version (©1984)
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God - 1 Corinthians 11:3

Enigma: @ frosbel

One more 'dribbling' for you. Oh, I have also gone to the trouble of selecting two special Bible versions for you.

Romans 9:5

(Aramaic Bible in Plain English)

NLT

I suppose I shouldn't forget your favourite?

NIV

Wow

Enigma: @ frosbel

One more 'dribbling' for you. Oh, I have also gone to the trouble of selecting two special Bible versions for you.

Romans 9:5

(Aramaic Bible in Plain English)

NLT

I suppose I shouldn't forget your favourite?

NIV

Let's check up these translations too mr enigma......

"Theirs the patriarchs, and from them,
according to the flesh, is the Messiah.
God who is over all be blessed forever.
Amen." (NAB)

.......
"to them belong the patriarchs, and of
their race, according to the flesh, is
the Christ. God who is over all be
blessed for ever. Amen." (RSV).

GOODnews bible::

They are descended from the famous Hebrew ancestors; and Christ,as a Human being,belongs to their race..May God,who rules over all,be praised for ever!!.Amen.

Punctuation problems::

, the Greek grammar of this verse
allows for three possible translations and
this is admitted by all reputable
Trinitarian scholars. The key issue at
Romans 9:5 essentially concerns
punctuation. Paul did not use the modern
punctuation conventions that we use today.
He did not provide commas and periods in
Romans 9:5 as translators conveniently
give us and translators have three options
open to them.
1. Christ according to the flesh who is
God over all be blessed to the ages.
Amen.
2. Christ according to the flesh who is
over all. God be blessed to the ages.
Amen.
3. Christ according to the flesh. God
who is over all be blessed to the ages.
Amen.
The actual Greek text reads, "kai ex wn o
cristoV to kata sarka o wn epi pantwn qeoV
euloghtoV eiV touV aiwnaV amhn," and
comes out word for word in English as, "and
out of whom the Christ according to flesh
the one being over all God be blessed to
the ages amen." No commas, no periods.
The verse can be, and should be, translated
as "from whom the Christ according to the
flesh. God who is over all be blessed to the
ages. Amen.", or possibly but not likely,
"from whom the Christ according to the
flesh who is over all. God be blessed to the
ages. Amen."....


Now enigma......

Your likes who are always bent on holding on to the spurious trinity dogma will twist that verse,misplace punctuations marks just to achieve your desires.....

Those 3 translations I quoted from were revised by your fellow trinitarians,who knew that,that verse doesn't say Jesus is God over all......

(NAB,RSV and the GOODnews bible)

Warning:::::

Don't cherry pick scriptures to support your pagan stance.......

The scriptures are clear as to who is God over all.....

Jesus many times said it....

YAHWEH.......

Another one for "translation" coming up.

1 Titus Timothy 3:16

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Edited

Enigma:

Another one for "translation" coming up.

1 Titus 3:16

Look up what I wrote....

Stop cherry picking verses ..........

And its 1 timothy 3:16....

That verse was also and has been probed over and over again.. ....

I expected u to have quoted this 1 tinothy 3:16 from NIV and the rest....

ijawkid:

Let's check up these translations too mr enigma......

"Theirs the patriarchs, and from them,
according to the flesh, is the Messiah.
God who is over all be blessed forever.
Amen." (NAB)

.......
"to them belong the patriarchs, and of
their race, according to the flesh, is
the Christ. God who is over all be
blessed for ever. Amen." (RSV).

GOODnews bible::

They are descended from the famous Hebrew ancestors; and Christ,as a Human being,belongs to their race..May God,who rules over all,be praised for ever!!.Amen.

Punctuation problems::

, the Greek grammar of this verse
allows for three possible translations and
this is admitted by all reputable
Trinitarian scholars. The key issue at
Romans 9:5 essentially concerns
punctuation. Paul did not use the modern
punctuation conventions that we use today.
He did not provide commas and periods in
Romans 9:5 as translators conveniently
give us and translators have three options
open to them.
1. Christ according to the flesh who is
God over all be blessed to the ages.
Amen.
2. Christ according to the flesh who is
over all. God be blessed to the ages.
Amen.
3. Christ according to the flesh. God
who is over all be blessed to the ages.
Amen.
The actual Greek text reads, "kai ex wn o
cristoV to kata sarka o wn epi pantwn qeoV
euloghtoV eiV touV aiwnaV amhn," and
comes out word for word in English as, "and
out of whom the Christ according to flesh
the one being over all God be blessed to
the ages amen." No commas, no periods.
The verse can be, and should be, translated
as "from whom the Christ according to the
flesh. God who is over all be blessed to the
ages. Amen.", or possibly but not likely,
"from whom the Christ according to the
flesh who is over all. God be blessed to the
ages. Amen."....


Now enigma......

Your likes who are always bent on holding on to the spurious trinity dogma will twist that verse,misplace punctuations marks just to achieve your desires.....

Those 3 translations I quoted from were revised by your fellow trinitarians,who knew that,that verse doesn't say Jesus is God over all......

(NAB,RSV and the GOODnews bible)

Warning:::::

Don't cherry pick scriptures to support your pagan stance.......

The scriptures are clear as to who is God over all.....

Jesus many times said it....

YAHWEH.......

Guess I have to deal with this before I go on to the thing I want to tell my brothers.

You do know what syntax is, right? It's the body of grammatical rules that guide sentence structure. Which of the translations maintain(s) it in that instance? Also, which of them maintain(s) consistency with the context as well as with the whole letter, in fact, with the whole Bible?

ijawkid:

Let's check up these translations too mr enigma......

"Theirs the patriarchs, and from them,
according to the flesh, is the Messiah.
God who is over all be blessed forever.
Amen." (NAB)

.......
"to them belong the patriarchs, and of
their race, according to the flesh, is
the Christ. God who is over all be
blessed for ever. Amen." (RSV).

GOODnews bible::

They are descended from the famous Hebrew ancestors; and Christ,as a Human being,belongs to their race..May God,who rules over all,be praised for ever!!.Amen.

Punctuation problems::

, the Greek grammar of this verse
allows for three possible translations and
this is admitted by all reputable
Trinitarian scholars. The key issue at
Romans 9:5 essentially concerns
punctuation. Paul did not use the modern
punctuation conventions that we use today.
He did not provide commas and periods in
Romans 9:5 as translators conveniently
give us and translators have three options
open to them.
1. Christ according to the flesh who is
God over all be blessed to the ages.
Amen.
2. Christ according to the flesh who is
over all. God be blessed to the ages.
Amen.
3. Christ according to the flesh. God
who is over all be blessed to the ages.
Amen.
The actual Greek text reads, "kai ex wn o
cristoV to kata sarka o wn epi pantwn qeoV
euloghtoV eiV touV aiwnaV amhn," and
comes out word for word in English as, "and
out of whom the Christ according to flesh
the one being over all God be blessed to
the ages amen." No commas, no periods.
The verse can be, and should be, translated
as "from whom the Christ according to the
flesh. God who is over all be blessed to the
ages. Amen.", or possibly but not likely,
"from whom the Christ according to the
flesh who is over all. God be blessed to the
ages. Amen."....


Now enigma......

Your likes who are always bent on holding on to the spurious trinity dogma will twist that verse,misplace punctuations marks just to achieve your desires.....

Those 3 translations I quoted from were revised by your fellow trinitarians,who knew that,that verse doesn't say Jesus is God over all......

(NAB,RSV and the GOODnews bible)

Warning:::::

Don't cherry pick scriptures to support your pagan stance.......

The scriptures are clear as to who is God over all.....

Jesus many times said it....

YAHWEH.......

Guess I have to deal with this before I go on to the thing I want to tell my brothers.

You do know what syntax is, right? It's the body of grammatical rules that guide sentence structure. Which of the translations maintain(s) it in that instance? Also, which of them maintain(s) consistency with the context as well as with the whole letter, in fact, with the whole Bible?

Enigma:

Another one for "translation" coming up.

1 Titus Timothy 3:16

lol......... Yeah, our friends are quite adept at [i]re[/i]translation exercises.

Note the strike-out ^^^ though.

Ihedinobi:

Guess I have to deal with this before I go on to the thing I want to tell my brothers.

You do know what syntax is, right? It's the body of grammatical rules that guide sentence structure. Which of the translations maintain(s) it in that instance? Also, which of them maintain(s) consistency with the context as well as with the whole letter, in fact, with the whole Bible?

Did u read up the NABS ,RSV and the GOOd news bible??

Punctuation is the glaring problem there...

Because paul over and over again through out his books has said Yahweh is the 1 GOD and Father over all....that Yahweh is the God of Jesus.....

You don't cherry pick scriptures to support your stance especially when it doesn't agree with the rest of the bible....

Your fellow trinitarians who are sincere dis-agree to the fact that romans 9:5 is reffereing to Jesus...

Your fellow trinitarians know that that verse should be rendered the right way....

That is why the NABS,RSV and the goodnews bible put it down the right way.....

Enigma:

Another one for "translation" coming up.

1 Titus 3:16

Shows you do not read your bible , which one is 1 Titus

I can't do justice to this right now, a little busy, but expect some simple explanations later on in the day.

frosbel:

Shows you do not read your bible , which one is 1 Titus

I can't do justice to this right now, a little busy, but expect some simple explanations later on in the day.

Lol...

Funny guys.....

They cherry pick verses that even there fellow trinitarians dis-agree with.....

I just showed this enigma of a man trinitarian translations that differ from the rest he put up there....he's acting like he didn't see it......

The truth stands......

Yahweh is God over Christ.....

The bible affirms that uncountable times....

Ihedinobi:

lol......... Yeah, our friends are quite adept at [i]re[/i]translation exercises.

Note the strike-out ^^^ though.

Ah, thanks for the strike out ----- I guess I was thinking too much of the language filter changing Ti.t to bosom and forgot I only needed to write Timothy anyway.

Well since we have mentioned our brother Titus why don't we take one from the epistle written to him then?

I guess it would also be another one for "translation", "punctuation", commas, apostrophes, alliteration, onomatopoeia etc etc etc

Ah which version should we use now? Well, let's stick to two of our friends' favourites.

Titus 2:13

NIV

while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ

NLT

while we look forward with hope to that wonderful day when the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be revealed.

ijawkid:

Lol...

Funny guys.....

They cherry pick verses that even there fellow trinitarians dis-agree with.....

I just showed this enigma of a man trinitarian translations that differ from the rest he put up there....he's acting like he didn't see it......

The truth stands......

Yahweh is God over Christ.....

The bible affirms that uncountable times....

My brother, I will always choose consistency and harmony over cherry picking.

The Trinity dogma can only be made to appear as some sort of fact by taking bible verses out of context.

@ frosbel

One more "cherry picking" for you.

Matthew 1:23 (NIV)

"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"--which means, "God with us."

Enigma:

Ah, thanks for the strike out ----- I guess I was thinking too much of the language filter changing Ti.t to bosom and forgot I only needed to write Timothy anyway.

Well since we have mentioned our brother Titus why don't we take one from the epistle written to him then?

I guess it would also be another one for "translation", "punctuation", commas, apostrophes, alliteration, onomatopoeia etc etc etc

Ah which version should we use now? Well, let's stick to two of our friends' favourites.

Titus 2:13

NIV

NLT

laff wan to ki pesin for here o......... They're really incredible with their accusations of the Trinitarian's (for lack of a better way to define "Christian" in this context) infidelity to the Bible while they do their utmost to retranslate it to account for commas, apostrophes, metaphors, synonyms, hyperboles and heaven-knows-what-else....... Na wa o.........

See Frosbel na, accusing everyone of twisting the Scriptures while promising to come back and explain bare, self-explanatory writing. Typical. Jọọ, I no envy una o. I wouldn't want to be burdened with as much knowledge of the mysteries of God as you guys are, Frosbel sir.

Enigma:

Ah, thanks for the strike out ----- I guess I was thinking too much of the language filter changing Ti.t to bosom and forgot I only needed to write Timothy anyway.

Well since we have mentioned our brother Titus why don't we take one from the epistle written to him then?

I guess it would also be another one for "translation", "punctuation", commas, apostrophes, alliteration, onomatopoeia etc etc etc

Ah which version should we use now? Well, let's stick to two of our friends' favourites.

Titus 2:13

NIV

NLT

Heheheh....

I had been waiting for u to quote titus 2:13....

Welcome....

But 1st let me show u what the same paul told the romans in that same book of romans...

Romans 15:5 $ 6...

Romans 15:5-6
New International Version (NIV)
5 May the God who gives endurance and
encouragement give you the same attitude of
mind toward each other that Christ Jesus had,
6 so that with one mind and one voice you may
glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus
Christ......


Did u take a look @ verse 6??

Paul again says Yahweh is the Father and GOD of our Lord Jesus.....

Does it ryhme with ur false understanding of romans 9:5??

I repeat ur fellow trinitarians dis-agree with you on romans 9:5.....and they translated it the right way...read up romans 9:5 from NABS,RSV and the Goodnews bible...your fellow trinitarians in those translations rendered romans 9:5 to fit with truth...

So that bible truths can be coherent and well founded.....

Enigma and CO...

Stop cherry picking...

It is deleterious....

It only exposes you and your likes....

Enigma: @ frosbel

One more "cherry picking" for you.

Matthew 1:23 (NIV)

Kindly put all your cherry picked verses in this post, I will respond later on.

Ah, let's throw a cheeky one in. This one should be easy for our friends and their "translation" commas etc. To even make it easier, I will use versions that are not mainstream; our friends would then point us to mainstream versions ----- and the translation gyrations will start.

1 John 5:20

(Aramaic Bible in Plain English)

And we know that The Son of God has come and he has given us a mind to know The True One and to be in The True One- in his Son, Yeshua The Messiah. This One is The True God and The Life Eternal.

(GOD'S WORD Translation)

We know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding so that we know the real God. We are in the one who is real, his Son Jesus Christ. This Jesus Christ is the real God and eternal life.

Enigma: @ frosbel

One more "cherry picking" for you.

Matthew 1:23 (NIV)

Hehehehehe....

I laugh again....

Listen everybody....

ENIGMA is telling all of us that all the people answering EMMANUEL or EMMANUELA including my cousin that bears the name EMMANUEL is GOD...

Did y'all hear that??

Jesus been named Emmanuel in no way proved he Is the almighty....got it??

It was never unusual for hebrew names to include withing them the word for God or even an abbreviated form of Gods personal name...

For example ELI'ATHAH which was d name of a servant of Jah in the past means ""GOD has come""........JEHU means ""Yahweh is HE""

I believe these persons were God too??

For u to quote matthew 1:23 to support your stance only shows you are finished.....

You'll soon run out of verses...

Enigma: Ah, let's throw a cheeky one in. This one should be easy for our friends and their "translation" commas etc. To even make it easier, I will use versions that are not mainstream; our friends would then point us to mainstream versions ----- and the translation gyrations will start.

1 John 5:20

(Aramaic Bible in Plain English)

(GOD'S WORD Translation)

So loving this

ijawkid:

Heheheh....

I had been waiting for u to quote titus 2:13....

Welcome....

But 1st let me show u what the same paul told the romans in that same book of romans...

Romans 15:5 $ 6...

Romans 15:5-6
New International Version (NIV)
5 May the God who gives endurance and
encouragement give you the same attitude of
mind toward each other that Christ Jesus had,
6 so that with one mind and one voice you may
glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus
Christ......


Did u take a look @ verse 6??

Paul again says Yahweh is the Father and GOD of our Lord Jesus.....

Does it ryhme with ur false understanding of romans 9:5??

I repeat ur fellow trinitarians dis-agree with you on romans 9:5.....and they translated it the right way...read up romans 9:5 from NABS,RSV and the Goodnews bible...your fellow trinitarians in those translations rendered romans 9:5 to fit with truth...

So that bible truths can be coherent and well founded.....

Enigma and CO...

Stop cherry picking...

It is deleterious....

It only exposes you and your likes....

lol @ bolded.... Did he present any understanding, senor? I think he only presented a Bible verse with a highlight. It does seem that it is you folk that find it necessary to present understandings aka interpretations. Lol

ijawkid:

Hehehehehe....

I laugh again....

Listen everybody....

ENIGMA is telling all of us that all the people answering EMMANUEL or EMMANUELA including my cousin that bears the name EMMANUEL is GOD...

Did y'all hear that??

Jesus been named Emmanuel in no way proved he Is the almighty....got it??

It was never unusual for hebrew names to include withing them the word for God or even an abbreviated form of Gods personal name...

For example ELI'ATHAH which was d name of a servant of Jah in the past means ""GOD has come""........JEHU means ""Yahweh is HE""

I believe these persons were God too??

For u to quote matthew 1:23 to support your stance only shows you are finished.....

You'll soon run out of verses...

By then, monsieur, there'd be no more verses in the Bible, would there? How about you come up with some that say that Jesus is NOT God, or that the Holy Spirit is NOT God. And try to offer them without explanation. We do that, don't we?

Enigma: @ frosbel

One more "cherry picking" for you.

Matthew 1:23 "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"--which means, "God with us."(NIV)

So for your mind "MARY" born/gave birth To YAHWEH......God was 9 month in the belly of "MARY" and during this 9 months He was also in Heaven euh:!!!!?

Pastor Kun:

The bolded sums it up beautifully.

honestly, am very very surprise.

A central doctrine of christiandom indeed!!!

Ihedinobi:

So loving this

Olodo, very soon you will start plagiarizing

plappville:

So for your mind "MARY" born/gave birth To YAHWEH......God was 9 month in the belly of "MARY" and during this 9 months He was also in Heaven euh:!!!!?

SMH too......

It then means my cousin that bears the name ""IMMANUEL"" is also GOD....

.......

And so also all the IMMANUELS on earth....

Enigma: Ah, let's throw a cheeky one in. This one should be easy for our friends and their "translation" commas etc. To even make it easier, I will use versions that are not mainstream; our friends would then point us to mainstream versions ----- and the translation gyrations will start.

1 John 5:20

(Aramaic Bible in Plain English)

(GOD'S WORD Translation)

English grammar seems to be the problem here.

v20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

It is deceptive and the height of scripture twisting to suggest that John ever intended for us to have the impression that Lord Jesus is Jehovah in this passage.

For starters he made it absolutely clear from v1 in the same chapter , that Jesus was born of God and thus was and is the Son of God , not God.

" Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him." - 1 John 5:1

Then in v5 , he further clarifies that Jesus Christ is the Son of GOD , otherwise he could have easily said God, he did not.

"Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" - 1 John 5:5

in vs 9 , he makes a vivid distinction between God and the Son , our Lord Jesus and states this nicely as follows :

" If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son." - 1 John 5:9

All the way up to v13 in the same chapter he calls Jesus the Son of God ( bible students, please refer to your bibles for confirmation ) and then in v20 he says :

" And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life." - 1 John 5;20

Let us decipher this in small bits for easy comprehension.


- We know that the Son of God is come
- And has given us understanding

Why has the Son of God given us this understanding ?

- That we may know him that is true

and who is this one that is true that we may know through the Son Jesus Christ.


- This is the true GOD.


A child will easily derive from this scripture that Jesus Christ came to reveal to us the Father , the one and true God. There is even a full-stop to make you understand that we begin the next sentence with the reason why the Son has given us this understanding.

Pal, you will end up more confused than a spider in a web if you refuse to accept simply truths that are so plain.

We can also derive from the pattern of John's writings as this same truth is represented in the book of Jon 17:3

I state from v1 to v3 for clarification.


John 17

King James Version (KJV)

17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


Lord Jesus never intended for any of us to ever think of him as God, he even states as above " and Jesus Christ " whom thou has sent.


Get a grip guys.

frosbel:

English grammar seems to be the problem here.

v20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

It is deceptive and the height of scripture twisting to suggest that John ever intended for us to have the impression that Lord Jesus is Jehovah in this passage.

For starters he made it absolutely clear from v1 in the same chapter , that Jesus was born of God and thus was and is the Son of God , not God.

" Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him." - 1 John 5:1

Then in v5 , he further clarifies that Jesus Christ is the Son of GOD , otherwise he could have easily said God, he did not.

"Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" - 1 John 5:5

in vs 9 , he makes a vivid distinction between God and the Son , our Lord Jesus and states this nicely as follows :

" If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son." - 1 John 5:9

All the way up to v13 in the same chapter he calls Jesus the Son of God ( bible students, please refer to your bibles for confirmation ) and then in v20 he says :

" And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life." - [b]1 John 5;20

Let us decipher this in small bits for easy comprehension.


- We know that the Son of God is come
- And has given us understanding

Why has the Son of God given us this understanding ?

- That we may know him that is true

and who is this one that is true that we may know through the Son Jesus Christ.


- This is the true GOD.


A child will easily derive from this scripture that Jesus Christ came to reveal to us the Father , the one and true God. There is even a full-stop to make you understand that we begin the next sentence with the reason why the Son has given us this understanding.

Pal, you will end up more confused than a spider in a web if you refuse to accept simply truths that are so plain.

We can also derive from the pattern of John's writings as this same truth is represented in the book of Jon 17:3

I state from v1 to v3 for clarification.


John 17

King James Version (KJV)

17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, [U]Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son,[/U] that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


Lord Jesus never intended for any of us to ever think of him as God, he even states as above " and Jesus Christ " whom thou has sent.[/b]


Get a grip guys.

Some people can argue just for arguement sake, not that they really seek the truth or even want to correct thier errors, you have done a good job as in the the above.

Those who have ears, let them hear, say no to Paganism doctrines. The scriptures says. 2 Timothy 3:16 Every Scripture passage is inspired by God. All of them are useful for teaching, pointing out errors, correcting people, and training them for a life that has God's approva;