So i think a clearer picture is starting to emerge to me. we grow everyday and have new things revealed to us everyday. scripture says the lord reveals his secrets to his prophets ( amos 3 vs 7 ) and if you seek you will find. it has occured to me that the lord made us with the ability to sin knowing that most of us will be weak and fall into temptation, for a purpose. and what is that purpose ? to select the most upright of all these men and then to reverse their spirit to the point where they cant sin anymore ( in the kingdom ) and use these as his permanent rulers on earth. apparently from the start the lord had the ability to make men with spirits that are not capable of sinning but chose not to do that but instead made men with freewill so as to cull the best of the best and then give them the spirit that has no freewill and is only geared towards righteousness. these selected ones will rule the rest of us ( who will still have freewill ) with a rod of iron and will break us down as the potters clay when we get to the kingdom. so basically this whole 'hell on earth' has been a selection process for leadership in heaven. after leadership is established then earth is reconverted to heaven. I GUESS THE QUESTION ARISES, IF THERE WAS A POSSIBILITY TO MAKE US WITHOUT FREEWILL FROM THE START WHY GO THROUGH THIS WHOLE PROCESS ? maybe he wants a merit based govt based on works.

jeremiah 31 vs 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

zephaniah 2 vs 13 The remnant of Israel will do no wrong And tell no lies, Nor will a deceitful tongue Be found in their mouths; For they will feed and lie down With no one to make them tremble."

micah 7 vs 19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

revelation 2 vs 26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations 'He will rule them with an iron scepter; shattering them like clay pots

obadiah777: So i think a clearer picture is starting to emerge to me. we grow everyday and have new things revealed to us everyday. scripture says the lord reveals his secrets to his prophets ( amos 3 vs 7 ) and if you seek you will find. it has occured to me that the lord made us with the ability to sin knowing that most of us will be weak and fall into temptation, for a purpose. and what is that purpose ? to select the most upright of all these men and then to reverse their spirit to the point where they cant sin anymore ( in the kingdom ) and use these as his permanent rulers on earth. apparently from the start the lord had the ability to make men with spirits that are not capable of sinning but chose not to do that but instead made men with freewill so as to cull the best of the best and then give them the spirit that has no freewill and is only geared towards righteousness. these selected ones will rule the rest of us ( who will still have freewill ) with a rod of iron and will break us down as the potters clay when we get to the kingdom. so basically this whole 'hell on earth' has been a selection process for leadership in heaven. after leadership is established then earth is reconverted to heaven. I GUESS THE QUESTION ARISES, IF THERE WAS A POSSIBILITY TO MAKE US WITHOUT FREEWILL FROM THE START WHY GO THROUGH THIS WHOLE PROCESS ? maybe he wants a merit based govt based on works.

jeremiah 31 vs 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

zephaniah 2 vs 13 The remnant of Israel will do no wrong And tell no lies, Nor will a deceitful tongue Be found in their mouths; For they will feed and lie down With no one to make them tremble."

micah 7 vs 19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

revelation 2 vs 26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations 'He will rule them with an iron scepter; shattering them like clay pots

obadiah! Take it easy, you have pushed this concept to an edge, it is a stone throw from telling us that God is responsible for mans sins. Take is easy! When u reach that point then u have crossed the boundary btw truth and falsehood. Apart from this alert i think your idea is almost totally correct.

Ubenedictus: obadiah! Take it easy, you have pushed this concept to an edge, it is a stone throw from telling us that God is responsible for mans sins. Take is easy! When u reach that point then u have crossed the boundary btw truth and falsehood. Apart from this alert i think your idea is almost totally correct.

just a thought running through my mind Sir. just thought i would air it out its called thinking outside the box

obadiah777: just a thought running through my mind Sir. just thought i would air it out its called thinking outside the box

Thank you Obadiah.
www.nairaland.com/1054997/all-atheists/8#12326229

musKeeto:

Thank you Obadiah.
www.nairaland.com/1054997/all-atheists/8#12326229

NO PROBS MY CHIEF. ALWAYS GLAD TO HELP OUT A FELLOW ISRAELITE

Go didint make man sin. He gave man free will . To obey and disobey. Man made his choice. Even though God gave him liberty to choose. He still recommend the choice of right decision for man and not wrong decision.

Deuteronomy 30:19
. . . I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Joagbaje: Go didint make man sin. He gave man free will . To obey and disobey. Man made his choice. Even though God gave him liberty to choose. He still recommend the choice of right decision for man and not wrong decision.

Deuteronomy 30:19
. . . I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

But this verse comes after the damage had been done re: Adam and Eve..

@Buzugee, I agree with you on this one. I think God created man with the ability to sin.

Since God gave man free will from the onset, man would have the ability to serve sin or righteousness! The free will from the begining suggests the ability to sin too; if He created us to worship Him alone, His laws would have been written in our hearts and there wouldn't be errors or sins.

Our God is not selfish, His purpose for creating man was to let him choose a side; after making our choices, He would write His laws in the minds of those who chose Him & they shall sin no more (Hebrews 8:10)

seriallink: @Buzugee, I agree with you on this one. I think God created man with the ability to sin.

Since God gave man free will from the onset, man would have the ability to serve sin or righteousness! The free will from the begining suggests the ability to sin too; if He created us to worship Him alone, His laws would have been written in our hearts and there wouldn't be errors or sins.

Our God is not selfish, His purpose for creating man was to let him choose a side; after making our choices, He would write His laws in the minds of those who chose Him & they shall sin no more (Hebrews 8:10)

YOU SIR ARE A GENIUS I COULDNT HAVE SAID IT BETTER

obadiah777: YOU SIR ARE A GENIUS I COULDNT HAVE SAID IT BETTER

I have been thinking about the same b4 you created the thread, infact, I'm with you all the way; you are indeed a spiritual man Thanks man

seriallink:

I have been thinking about the same b4 you created the thread, infact, I'm with you all the way; you are indeed a spiritual man Thanks man

HEY BROTHER, IRON SHARPENS IRON. WE KEEP EACH OTHER STRONG AND SHARP. SCRIPTURE SAYS ' DEBATE THY CAUSE WITH THY NEIGHBOR ( PROVERBS 25 VS 9 ). I HAVE TO SAY THOUGH YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON ON THIS FORUM SO FAR WHO SEES THE COMPLETE PICTURE. EVERYONE ELSE IS BUSY GAINSAYING AND BEING PHARISEES WITHOUT ACTUALLY SITTING DOWN TO MEDITATE ON PRECEPTS AND LINKING PRECEPTS UPON PRECEPTS TO GET TO THE FULL PICTURE. I TROWAY SALUTE SIR I TRULY DO.

Wrong !!


God cannot make a person Sin.

This is heresy.

frosbel: Wrong !!


God cannot make a person Sin.

This is heresy.

bro frosble, i think you need to drop one more church heresy.... i meam after trinity, what else can not be tested...

frosbel: Wrong !!


God cannot make a person Sin.

This is heresy.

OF COURSE GOD CANNOT MAKE A PERSON SIN. JAMES 1 VS 13-14 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed I AM SURE YOU NEVER HEARD SERIALLINK OR MYSELF SAY GOD CAN MAKE YOU SIN

obadiah777: OF COURSE GOD CANNOT MAKE A PERSON SIN. JAMES 1 VS 13-14 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed I AM SURE YOU NEVER HEARD SERIALLINK OR MYSELF SAY GOD CAN MAKE YOU SIN

The title of your article says ' God made Man sin '.

The truth is Man sinned because he wanted to.

The First Adam chose Sin, the Last Adam rejected it.

To suggest that God made man Sin is wrong, imho , God had a plan B just in case Adam was going to fail which he did.

Many of us have plan Bs today, no ?

Peace !!

obadiah777: OF COURSE GOD CANNOT MAKE A PERSON SIN. JAMES 1 VS 13-14 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed I AM SURE YOU NEVER HEARD SERIALLINK OR MYSELF SAY GOD CAN MAKE YOU SIN

Ex. 7:2 Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.
Ex. 7:3 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt


Romans 9:

10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[d] 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[e]

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f]

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

frosbel:

The title of your article says ' God made Man sin '.

YOU HAVE TO LEARN TO READ BETWEEN THE LINES BROTHER. WHAT THE TITLE MEANS IS THAT GOD PURPOSELY MADE MAN WITH FREEWILL KNOWING MAN WILL SIN AND FALL ( REMEMBER HE DECLARES THE END FROM THE BEGINNING )

ISAIAH 46 VS 10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come.

HOWEVER HE HAD A REASON WHY HE DID THAT.

frosbel:

The title of your article says ' God made Man sin '.

The truth is Man sinned because he wanted to.

The First Adam chose Sin, the Last Adam rejected it.

To suggest that God made man Sin is wrong, imho , God had a plan B just in case Adam was going to fail which he did.

Many of us have plan Bs today, no ?

Peace !!

But He created man with the ability to sin too; if God words were written on Adams mind as stated in Hebrews 8:10, he would have easily overcame the temptation. My point is, free will is also an ability to serve sin! Since it's a choice between serving sin or righteousness and Adam was created with it before he chose to serve sin!

I'm not saying God can make man sin, but he created man with the ability to choose between good & evil

frosbel:

The title of your article says ' God made Man sin '.

The truth is Man sinned because he wanted to.

The First Adam chose Sin, the Last Adam rejected it.

To suggest that God made man Sin is wrong, imho , God had a plan B just in case Adam was going to fail which he did.

Many of us have plan Bs today, no ?

Peace !!

NOW YOU ARE JUST UNDER-ESTIMATING GOD NOW. THIS IS HERETICAL STATEMENT

ISAIAH 46 VS 10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, HOW CAN HE HAVE PLAN B WHEN HE KNOWS THE END FROM THE BGINNING ?

musKeeto:

Ex. 7:2 Thou shalt speak all that I command thee: and Aaron thy brother shall speak unto Pharaoh, that he send the children of Israel out of his land.
Ex. 7:3 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt


Romans 9:

10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[d] 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[e]

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f]

16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

WHATS THE POINT TO ALL THESE SCRIPTURES ?

Excellent thread!

*dhtml:
Excellent thread!

ALL PRAISES AND THANKS TO YAHAWAH OF COURSE FOR BESTOWING HIS KNOWLEDGE AND REVEALING HIS SECRETS TO HIS LOWLY SERVANTS.

AMOS 3 VS 7 Indeed, the Sovereign LORD never does anything until he reveals his plans to his servants the prophets

obadiah777: YOU HAVE TO LEARN TO READ BETWEEN THE LINES BROTHER. WHAT THE TITLE MEANS IS THAT GOD PURPOSELY MADE MAN WITH FREEWILL KNOWING MAN WILL SIN AND FALL ( REMEMBER HE DECLARES THE END FROM THE BEGINNING )

ISAIAH 46 VS 10 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come.

HOWEVER HE HAD A REASON WHY HE DID THAT.

Yeah bro, that's my point! God wanted people to choose him before writing his words on their minds & they'll sin no more! So He probably knew Adam would sin & the plan of sending the messiah was there too from the start!

seriallink:

Yeah bro, that's my point! God wanted people to choose him before writing his words on their minds & they'll sin no more! So He probably knew Adam would sin & the plan of sending the messiah was there too from the start!

COULDNT HAVE SAID IT ANY BETTER IF I TRIED

HEY SERIALLINK WE ON THE SAME TEAM NOW. WE SHALL FORM A TAG TEAM TO G-ANGBANG ON THESE SCOFFERS AND GAINSAYERS AND ATHEISTS AND DEMONS ON NL. OUR WEAPON IS THAT DOUBLE EDGED SWORD ( HEBREWS 4 VS 12 )

obadiah777: HEY SERIALLINK WE ON THE SAME TEAM NOW. WE SHALL FORM A TAG TEAM TO G-ANGBANG ON THESE SCOFFERS AND GAINSAYERS AND ATHEISTS AND DEMONS ON NL. OUR WEAPON IS THAT DOUBLE EDGED SWORD ( HEBREWS 4 VS 12 )

Got your back bro

obadiah777: HEY SERIALLINK WE ON THE SAME TEAM NOW. WE SHALL FORM A TAG TEAM TO G-ANGBANG ON THESE SCOFFERS AND GAINSAYERS AND ATHEISTS AND DEMONS ON NL. OUR WEAPON IS THAT DOUBLE EDGED SWORD ( HEBREWS 4 VS 12 )

Two of ona na wa.....lol....

Well all I can say is with free will we could choose to obey Yahweh or not.......

Adam lost it,we can find our way back..........

The last adam has indeed opened that way for us.........

As seriallink said soon all those who have been refined will have the law of God written on there hearts....and that definitly will lead to perfection....we'll get back what adam lost.....

Buzu boy how's d weekend going??

ijawkid:

Two of ona na wa.....lol....

Well all I can say is with free will we could choose to obey Yahweh or not.......

Adam lost it,we can find our way back..........

The last adam has indeed opened that way for us.........

As seriallink said soon all those who have been refined will have the law of God written on there hearts....and that definitly will lead to perfection....we'll get back what adam lost.....

Buzu boy how's d weekend going??

HEY MY BRETHREN IJAWKID HOW DEY GO DEY GO MY BROTHER ? TRUST ALL IS WELL. SUNDAY IS SLOW SO FAR. BUT HOPEFULLY THINGS WILL SPICE UP. I SLAYED FOUR BOTTLES OF DRAGON STOUT YESTERDAY WITH THE TWO EDGED SWORD

obadiah777: HEY MY BRETHREN IJAWKID HOW DEY GO DEY GO MY BROTHER ? TRUST ALL IS WELL. SUNDAY IS SLOW SO FAR. BUT HOPEFULLY THINGS WILL SPICE UP. I SLAYED FOUR BOTTLES OF DRAGON STOUT YESTERDAY WITH THE TWO EDGED SWORD

Hahahahahahahaha........

And how is that possible??

ijawkid:

Hahahahahahahaha........

And how is that possible??

THE TWO EDGED SWORD IN THIS INSTANCE IS MY MOUTH