ijawkid:

So which God has no one seen??

Oya talk....

God The Father no one has seen, so The God Almighty people saw in the Old Testament could not of being The Father but The Son - Jesus. How else it this truth be logically explained?

Ubenedictus: u said been a trinitarian didnt affect ur salvation so how can making people trinitarians prevent them frm entering d kingdom.

When you tell Muslims , Jews and others that you worship a 3-headed god , of course they think you are crazy and reject your offer of salvation, that's how !!!

ijawkid:

So Jesus human nature was what died,not his God nature...

Please can you kindly open just one verse to prove this heresy!!!!!...

Please we'll appreciate it....

Open the scripture where it says it is a part of Jesus that died not the whole of Jesus.....

Make u no dey talk lie because of trinity o....

Was there Jesus somewhere else,when he was in the grave for 3 good days??

Oboy this your LIE na wa o....

ofcuz, did u forget Jesus preaching to d spirit in prison? Were u blind wen dat part was been read

gbrookes02:

God The Father no one has seen, so The God Almighty people saw in the Old Testament could not of being The Father but The Son - Jesus. How else it this truth be logically explained?

So Jesus had already interacted with his people as a man in the past , but when he came through Mary he came as a real MAN , lol.

Did I not say you guys and your trinity idol are steeped into total confusion !!!

Ubenedictus: ofcuz, did u forget Jesus preaching to d spirit in prison? Were u blind wen dat part was been read

Wrong.

Go read that verse again !

frosbel:

You worship a 3-god god and you call me who worships ONE God a pagan ?

i ve corrected u enough, u can go on and play d jerk all u want.

gbrookes02:

""CO - EQUAL"" in nature and essence only not in authority and role in The Trinity.

You forgot one thing at your other thread, in Genesis 19:24 (English Standard Version) "Then the Lord (Yahweh on the earth) rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the Lord (Yahweh) out of heaven." So therefore its two persons been spoken of as Yahweh. That's the part you forgot (earth and heaven).

Wesley's Notes
19:24 Then the Lord rained - from the Lord - God the Son, from God the Father, for the Father has committed all judgment to the Son. He that is the Saviour will be the destroyer of those that reject the salvation.

http://bible.cc/genesis/19-24.htm

please tell him again.

frosbel:

So Jesus had already interacted with his people as a man in the past , but when he came through Mary he came as a real MAN , lol.

Did I not say you guys and your trinity idol are steeped into total confusion !!!

He only took on the appearance of a man in the Old Testament, He was not actually a man in the Old Testament.

gbrookes02:

He only took on the appearance of a man in the Old Testament, He was not actually a man in the Old Testament.

So 1/3 of God appeared as a Man while the other 3/4 remained as 2 distinct persons ?

Friend you are disgracing your Trinitarian theologians and making this become a joke.

frosbel:

So 1/3 of God appeared as a Man while the other 3/4 remained as 2 distinct persons ?

Friend you are disgracing your Trinitarian theologians and making this become a joke.

You err because you don't know the scriptures, Satan has fooled you. You are totally blind to the truth. You don't want to see the truth at all.

gbrookes02:

God The Father no one has seen, so The God Almighty people saw in the Old Testament could not of being The Father but The Son - Jesus. How else it this truth be logically explained?

So open the scriptures and show it was the son .....SMH!!!!!!!!!!

Please just open one scripture to show all of us....

So it is now Yahweh the Father,Yahweh the son and Yahweh the holy spirit....??

Do u see what the trinity is doing to you??
.

Ubenedictus: ofcuz, did u forget Jesus preaching to d spirit in prison? Were u blind wen dat part was been read

So how many parts of Jesus preached to the spirits in prison??

And please when did Jesus go preach to the spirits in heaven??before his death or after ressurection??

And please if it was Jesus' human nature that dies while his God nature ran somewhere else,which part of Jesus was ressurected??

His human nature or his God nature??

And please use the bible.....

ijawkid:

So how many parts of Jesus preached to the spirits in prison??

And please when did Jesus go preach to the spirits in heaven??before his death or after ressurection??

And please if it was Jesus' human nature that dies while his God nature ran somewhere else,which part of Jesus was ressurected??

His human nature or his God nature??

And please use the bible.....

It was His human nature that died, and it was His same human nature that was ressurected.

gbrookes02:

It was His human nature that died, and it was His same human nature that was ressurected.

sorry this is just plain nonsense.

You either die or you do not die.

So if his Human part died , why did his God part not raise him from the dead, why did God the father have to raise his SON through his Spirit from the dead.

Surely Jesus is GOD , so his God nature should have left after death and raised him up , no ?

Also if he did not DIE 100% , then Jesus was playing pretend and the resurrection was a joke.

You Catholics are so so deceived and lost , repent from your blasphemies to avoid sharing the lake of fire with all the popes starting from emperor Constantine.

gbrookes02:

It was His human nature that died, and it was His same human nature that was ressurected.

And where was his God nature that you claimed was with him right from the time he was in marys womb till his death??

You said he was 100 percent man and GOD on earth....

Did you forget??

Now you are clinging to his human nature alone to escape reality.....

frosbel:


sorry this is just plain nonsense.

You either die or you do not die.

So if his Human part died , why did his God part not raise him from the dead, why did God the father have to raise his SON through his Spirit from the dead.

Surely Jesus is GOD , so his God nature should have left after death and raised him up , no ?

Also if he did not DIE 100% , then Jesus was playing pretend and the resurrection was a joke.

You Catholics are so so deceived and lost , repent from your blasphemies to avoid sharing the lake of fire with all the popes starting from emperor Constantine.

I'm still perplexed by the explanation I'm hearing from these trinitarians.....

I never knew it was a part of Jesus that died......lmao......

Then it means Jesus' ressurection was a lie and a joke....

frosbel:


sorry this is just plain nonsense.

You either die or you do not die.

So if his Human part died , why did his God part not raise him from the dead, why did God the father have to raise his SON through his Spirit from the dead.

Surely Jesus is GOD , so his God nature should have left after death and raised him up , no ?

Also if he did not DIE 100% , then Jesus was playing pretend and the resurrection was a joke.

You Catholics are so so deceived and lost , repent from your blasphemies to avoid sharing the lake of fire with all the popes starting from emperor Constantine.

Jesus also said that He will raised Himself up from the dead, John 2:19,21 (New International Version) "Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body."

ijawkid:

And where was his God nature that you claimed was with him right from the time he was in marys womb till his death??

You said he was 100 percent man and GOD on earth....

Did you forget??

Now you are clinging to his human nature alone to escape reality.....

His God nature was everywhere as God. God is everywhere.

gbrookes02:

One of the men who spoke to Abraham on earth and who went into Sodom and Gomorrah was God according to the bible.

Yes, it referrs to two persons only that make sense.

All three men who met Abraham were angels, my friend. Of course, Yahweh had not appeared in the flesh to Abraham. (Exodus 33:20 - "But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!""

And it's not the first time an angel speaks as though God is speaking directly. Or humans speak to angels (Yahweh's representatives) as if speaking to Yahweh.

Examples:

Genesis 16:7-13 : Darby Translation (DARBY)

7 And the Angel of Jehovah found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, by the spring on the way to Shur.

8 And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maidservant, whence comest thou? and whither art thou going? And she said, I am fleeing from the face of my mistress Sarai.

9 And the Angel of Jehovah said to her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.

10 And the Angel of Jehovah said to her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.

11 And the Angel of Jehovah said to her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael, because Jehovah hath hearkened to thy affliction.

12 And he will be a wild-ass of a man, his hand against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell before the face of all his brethren.

13 And she called the name of Jehovah who spoke to her, Thou art the ùGod who reveals himself, for she said, Also here have I seen after he has revealed himself.

Another one:

Judges 6:12-16:12 And the Angel of Jehovah appeared to him, and said to him, Jehovah is with thee, thou mighty man of valour.

13 And Gideon said to him, Ah my Lord, if Jehovah be with us, why then is all this befallen us? and where are all his miracles that our fathers told us of, saying, Did not Jehovah bring us up from Egypt? And now Jehovah hath cast us off, and given us into the hand of Midian.

14 And Jehovah looked upon him, and said, Go in this thy might, and thou shalt save Israel from the hand of Midian. Have not I sent thee?

15 And he said to him, Ah Lord, wherewith shall I save Israel? behold, my thousand is the poorest in Manasseh, and I am the least in my father's house.

16 And Jehovah said to him, I will certainly be with thee; and thou shalt smite Midian as one man.


Now Gen 19:1 shows only two angels went into Sodom - "The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground."

Why did God send 3 angels to Abraham and only 2 to Sodom? Because a very important message was being delievered that will change history - they'll have a son, through whose lineage Jesus would be born. Using three persons firmly established the message. - "A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses". God opted to do three.(Deuteronomy 19:15; 1 Timothy 5:19)

gbrookes02:

Jesus also said that He will raised Himself up from the dead, John 2:19,21 (New International Version) "Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body."

Lol....

So Jesus said he was goin to raise up half of himself right??

And it wasn't Jesus who raised up himself....

Have you read further in the bible to really know who ressurected Jesus??

Keep reading and you'll find.....

gbrookes02:

Jesus also said that He will raised Himself up from the dead, John 2:19,21 (New International Version) "Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.” 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body."

"No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father." - John 10:18

Also the Apostles disagree with you .

"But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay. - Acts 13:37"
- PAUL


"You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this. - Acts 3:15 "
- PETER


By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also - 1 Corinthians 6:14 "
- PAUL

gbrookes02:

His God nature was everywhere as God. God is everywhere.

Lmao....

And I need just a scripture for this hoax u just wrote......

Open the scriptures and stop explaining what is not within the walls of the bible.....

Open the bible and prove what you just said......

Open open open!!!!!!!

ijawkid:

Lmao....

And I need just a scripture for this hoax u just wrote......

Open the scriptures and stop explaining what is not within the walls of the bible.....

Open the bible and prove what you just said......

Open open open!!!!!!!

But they don't read the bible ,

TroGunn:

All three men who met Abraham were angels, my friend. Of course, Yahweh had not appeared in the flesh to Abraham. (Exodus 33:20 - "But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!""

And it's not the first time an angel speaks as though God is speaking directly. Or humans speak to angels (Yahweh's representatives) as if speaking to Yahweh.

Examples:

Genesis 16:7-13 : Darby Translation (DARBY)

7 And the Angel of Jehovah found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, by the spring on the way to Shur.

8 And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maidservant, whence comest thou? and whither art thou going? And she said, I am fleeing from the face of my mistress Sarai.

9 And the Angel of Jehovah said to her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.

10 And the Angel of Jehovah said to her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.

11 And the Angel of Jehovah said to her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael, because Jehovah hath hearkened to thy affliction.

12 And he will be a wild-ass of a man, his hand against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell before the face of all his brethren.

13 And she called the name of Jehovah who spoke to her, Thou art the ùGod who reveals himself, for she said, Also here have I seen after he has revealed himself.

Another one:

Judges 6:12-16:12 And the Angel of Jehovah appeared to him, and said to him, Jehovah is with thee, thou mighty man of valour.

13 And Gideon said to him, Ah my Lord, if Jehovah be with us, why then is all this befallen us? and where are all his miracles that our fathers told us of, saying, Did not Jehovah bring us up from Egypt? And now Jehovah hath cast us off, and given us into the hand of Midian.

14 And Jehovah looked upon him, and said, Go in this thy might, and thou shalt save Israel from the hand of Midian. Have not I sent thee?

15 And he said to him, Ah Lord, wherewith shall I save Israel? behold, my thousand is the poorest in Manasseh, and I am the least in my father's house.

16 And Jehovah said to him, I will certainly be with thee; and thou shalt smite Midian as one man.


Now Gen 19:1 shows only two angels went into Sodom - "The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground."

Why did God send 3 angels to Abraham and only 2 to Sodom? Because a very important message was being delievered that will change history - they'll have a son, through whose lineage Jesus would be born. Using three persons firmly established the message. - "A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses". God opted to do three.(Deuteronomy 19:15; 1 Timothy 5:19)

Another brilliant exposition !!!

By the time we are finished, there will be no more trinitarians left on Nairaland

TroGunn:

All three men who met Abraham were angels, my friend. Of course, Yahweh had not appeared in the flesh to Abraham. (Exodus 33:20 - "But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!""

And it's not the first time an angel speaks as though God is speaking directly. Or humans speak to angels (Yahweh's representatives) as if speaking to Yahweh.

Examples:

Genesis 16:7-13 : Darby Translation (DARBY)

7 And the Angel of Jehovah found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, by the spring on the way to Shur.

8 And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maidservant, whence comest thou? and whither art thou going? And she said, I am fleeing from the face of my mistress Sarai.

9 And the Angel of Jehovah said to her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.

10 And the Angel of Jehovah said to her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.

11 And the Angel of Jehovah said to her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael, because Jehovah hath hearkened to thy affliction.

12 And he will be a wild-ass of a man, his hand against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell before the face of all his brethren.

13 And she called the name of Jehovah who spoke to her, Thou art the ùGod who reveals himself, for she said, Also here have I seen after he has revealed himself.

Another one:

Judges 6:12-16:12 And the Angel of Jehovah appeared to him, and said to him, Jehovah is with thee, thou mighty man of valour.

13 And Gideon said to him, Ah my Lord, if Jehovah be with us, why then is all this befallen us? and where are all his miracles that our fathers told us of, saying, Did not Jehovah bring us up from Egypt? And now Jehovah hath cast us off, and given us into the hand of Midian.

14 And Jehovah looked upon him, and said, Go in this thy might, and thou shalt save Israel from the hand of Midian. Have not I sent thee?

15 And he said to him, Ah Lord, wherewith shall I save Israel? behold, my thousand is the poorest in Manasseh, and I am the least in my father's house.

16 And Jehovah said to him, I will certainly be with thee; and thou shalt smite Midian as one man.


Now Gen 19:1 shows only two angels went into Sodom - "The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground."

Why did God send 3 angels to Abraham and only 2 to Sodom? Because a very important message was being delievered that will change history - they'll have a son, through whose lineage Jesus would be born. Using three persons firmly established the message. - "A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses". God opted to do three.(Deuteronomy 19:15; 1 Timothy 5:19)

Genesis (New International Version) 18:1-2, 13-14, 26-33;'The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground. 13 Then the Lord said to Abraham, “Why did Sarah laugh and say, ‘Will I really have a child, now that I am old?’ 14 Is anything too hard for the Lord? I will return to you at the appointed time next year, and Sarah will have a son.” 16 When the men got up to leave, they looked down toward Sodom, and Abraham walked along with them to see them on their way. 17 Then the Lord said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do? 18 Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.[c] 19 For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just, so that the Lord will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.”

20 Then the Lord said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”

22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord.[d] 23 Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare[e] the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”

26 The Lord said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”

27 Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, 28 what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five people?”

“If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.”

29 Once again he spoke to him, “What if only forty are found there?”

He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.”

30 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?”

He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”

31 Abraham said, “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?”

He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.”

32 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”

He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

33 When the Lord had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.

Genesis 19:24, 29 "Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens. 29 So when God destroyed the cities of the plain, he remembered Abraham, and he brought Lot out of the catastrophe that overthrew the cities where Lot had lived."

So one of the angels was God, The Angel that talked to Abraham on earth, that's why "the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens."

OLD TESTAMENT SAYINGS
Who Is the Angel of the Lord? (Judg 6:22-23)

IF GIDEON ONLY SAW AN ANGEL, WHY DID HE FEAR THAT HE MIGHT DIE? Many interpreters believe that an angel takes God's place and acts as his representative. However, others do not feel this explanation fits all the data. Who, then, is this "angel of the LORD"?

The angel of the Lord first appears in Genesis 16:7 and then intermittently throughout the early Old Testament books. In other passages an individual manifesting himself in human form is frequently called "the LORD" (Gen 12:7; 17:1; 18:1). If this angel actually were God, why is he called an angel? Since the root meaning of angel is "messenger" or "one who is sent," we must determine from context whether the word refers to the office of the sent one or to the nature of created angels as finite beings.

Initially, some contexts of the term "angel of the LORD" appear to refer to nothing more than any other angel (as in Judg 6:11). But as the narrative progresses, that angel soon transcends the angelic category and is described in terms suited only to a member of the Trinity. Thus in the Judges 6 episode, we are startled when verse 14 has the Lord speaking to Gideon, when previously only the angel of the Lord had been talking.

Many Old Testament passages state that this angel is God. Thus, after being told that Hagar had been speaking with the angel of the Lord (four times in Gen 16:7, 9-11), Genesis 16:13 informs us that Hagar "gave this name to the LORD who spoke to her: `You are the God who sees me.'" Jacob's testimony in Genesis 48:15-16 is even more striking. He identifies the God in whose presence his fathers Abraham and Isaac had lived as "the God who has been my shepherd all my life to this day, the Angel who has delivered me from all harm."

This angel spoke to Jacob earlier in a dream and identified himself by saying, "I am the God of Bethel, where you anointed a pillar and where you made a vow to me" (Gen 31:11, 13).

Likewise in Exodus 3:2-6 the phrase "the angel of the LORD" is used interchangeably with "the LORD." In fact the angel claims, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob" (Ex 3:6).

The passage, however, that really clinches this remarkable identification is Exodus 23:20-23. There God promises to send his angel ahead of the children of Israel as they go through the desert. The Israelites were warned that they must obey and not rebel against this angel. The reason was a stunning one: "Since my Name is in him." God would never share his memorial name with anyone else, for Isaiah 42:8 advised that he would never share his glory with another. Thus the name of God stands for himself. And when a person is said to have the name of God in him, that person is God!

This angel has divine qualities, prerogatives and authority. He has the power to give life (Gen 16:10) and to see and know all (Gen 16:13; Ex 3:7). Only God can forgive sin, yet this angel did the same in Exodus 23:21. The angel performed miracles such as keeping a burning bush from being consumed (Ex 3:2), smiting Egypt with plagues (Ex 3:20), calling forth fire on the rock to consume the meal set for him (Judg 6:21) and ascending the flame of the altar (Judg 13:20).

Finally, this angel commanded and received worship from Moses (Ex 3:5) and Joshua (Josh 5:14). Angels were not to receive worship. When John attempted to worship an angel in Revelation 19:10; 22:8-9, he was corrected quickly and told not to do it.

It is clear from this abundance of evidence that the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament was a preincarnate form of our Lord Jesus Christ, who would later permanently take on flesh when he came as a babe in Bethlehem. But mark it well: the one who came after John had already been before--he was that angel of the Lord. His full deity was always observed and yet he presented the same mystery of the Trinity that would later be observed in "I and the Father are one" (Jn 10:30) and "my other witness is the Father, who sent me" (Jn 8:18). It is that word sent that ties together the angel, messenger or sent one into an Old Testament theology of christophanies, appearances of God in human form.

See also comment on GENESIS 32:23-33; EXODUS 24:9-11; 33:18-23.

http://www.ivpress.com/title/exc/1423-8c.php

frosbel:

"No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father." - John 10:18

Also the Apostles disagree with you .

"But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay. - Acts 13:37"
- PAUL


"You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this. - Acts 3:15 "
- PETER


By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also - 1 Corinthians 6:14 "
- PAUL

How can Jesus have "authority to take it up again" if Jesus is not God but just a mere man? Please to answer that question.

gbrookes02:

How can Jesus have "authority to take it up again" if Jesus is not God but just a mere man? Please to answer that question.

Trust me , you will leave the catholic church like I did a few years ago, and you will find the REAL JESUS !!

ijawkid:

Lmao....

And I need just a scripture for this hoax u just wrote......

Open the scriptures and stop explaining what is not within the walls of the bible.....

Open the bible and prove what you just said......

Open open open!!!!!!!

I and others have done that in many past posts to you all, and you all just ignore them all.

gbrookes02:

Genesis (New International Version) 18:1-2, 13-14, 26-33;'The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground. 13 Then the Lord said to Abraham, “Why did Sarah laugh and say, ‘Will I really have a child, now that I am old?’ 14 Is anything too hard for the Lord? I will return to you at the appointed time next year, and Sarah will have a son.” 16 When the men got up to leave, they looked down toward Sodom, and Abraham walked along with them to see them on their way. 17 Then the Lord said, “Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do? 18 Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation, and all nations on earth will be blessed through him.[c] 19 For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just, so that the Lord will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.”

20 Then the Lord said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”

22 The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the Lord.[d] 23 Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24 What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not spare[e] the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? 25 Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?”

26 The Lord said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake.”

27 Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, 28 what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five people?”

“If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.”

29 Once again he spoke to him, “What if only forty are found there?”

He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.”

30 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?”

He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.”

31 Abraham said, “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?”

He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.”

32 Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?”

He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

33 When the Lord had finished speaking with Abraham, he left, and Abraham returned home.

Genesis 19:24, 29 "Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens. 29 So when God destroyed the cities of the plain, he remembered Abraham, and he brought Lot out of the catastrophe that overthrew the cities where Lot had lived."

So one of the angels was God that's why "the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens."

OLD TESTAMENT SAYINGS
Who Is the Angel of the Lord? (Judg 6:22-23)

IF GIDEON ONLY SAW AN ANGEL, WHY DID HE FEAR THAT HE MIGHT DIE? Many interpreters believe that an angel takes God's place and acts as his representative. However, others do not feel this explanation fits all the data. Who, then, is this "angel of the LORD"?

The angel of the Lord first appears in Genesis 16:7 and then intermittently throughout the early Old Testament books. In other passages an individual manifesting himself in human form is frequently called "the LORD" (Gen 12:7; 17:1; 18:1). If this angel actually were God, why is he called an angel? Since the root meaning of angel is "messenger" or "one who is sent," we must determine from context whether the word refers to the office of the sent one or to the nature of created angels as finite beings.

Initially, some contexts of the term "angel of the LORD" appear to refer to nothing more than any other angel (as in Judg 6:11). But as the narrative progresses, that angel soon transcends the angelic category and is described in terms suited only to a member of the Trinity. Thus in the Judges 6 episode, we are startled when verse 14 has the Lord speaking to Gideon, when previously only the angel of the Lord had been talking.

Many Old Testament passages state that this angel is God. Thus, after being told that Hagar had been speaking with the angel of the Lord (four times in Gen 16:7, 9-11), Genesis 16:13 informs us that Hagar "gave this name to the LORD who spoke to her: `You are the God who sees me.'" Jacob's testimony in Genesis 48:15-16 is even more striking. He identifies the God in whose presence his fathers Abraham and Isaac had lived as "the God who has been my shepherd all my life to this day, the Angel who has delivered me from all harm."

This angel spoke to Jacob earlier in a dream and identified himself by saying, "I am the God of Bethel, where you anointed a pillar and where you made a vow to me" (Gen 31:11, 13).

Likewise in Exodus 3:2-6 the phrase "the angel of the LORD" is used interchangeably with "the LORD." In fact the angel claims, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob" (Ex 3:6).

The passage, however, that really clinches this remarkable identification is Exodus 23:20-23. There God promises to send his angel ahead of the children of Israel as they go through the desert. The Israelites were warned that they must obey and not rebel against this angel. The reason was a stunning one: "Since my Name is in him." God would never share his memorial name with anyone else, for Isaiah 42:8 advised that he would never share his glory with another. Thus the name of God stands for himself. And when a person is said to have the name of God in him, that person is God!

This angel has divine qualities, prerogatives and authority. He has the power to give life (Gen 16:10) and to see and know all (Gen 16:13; Ex 3:7). Only God can forgive sin, yet this angel did the same in Exodus 23:21. The angel performed miracles such as keeping a burning bush from being consumed (Ex 3:2), smiting Egypt with plagues (Ex 3:20), calling forth fire on the rock to consume the meal set for him (Judg 6:21) and ascending the flame of the altar (Judg 13:20).

Finally, this angel commanded and received worship from Moses (Ex 3:5) and Joshua (Josh 5:14). Angels were not to receive worship. When John attempted to worship an angel in Revelation 19:10; 22:8-9, he was corrected quickly and told not to do it.

It is clear from this abundance of evidence that the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament was a preincarnate form of our Lord Jesus Christ, who would later permanently take on flesh when he came as a babe in Bethlehem. But mark it well: the one who came after John had already been before--he was that angel of the Lord. His full deity was always observed and yet he presented the same mystery of the Trinity that would later be observed in "I and the Father are one" (Jn 10:30) and "my other witness is the Father, who sent me" (Jn 8:18). It is that word sent that ties together the angel, messenger or sent one into an Old Testament theology of christophanies, appearances of God in human form.

See also comment on GENESIS 32:23-33; EXODUS 24:9-11; 33:18-23.

http://www.ivpress.com/title/exc/1423-8c.php

I have got 2 scriptures for u...

1 john 4:12..

New International Version (©1984)
No one"" has ever seen God""; but if we love one
another, God lives in us and his love is made
complete in us.
........
New Living Translation (©2007)
No one has"" ever seen God"". But if we love each
other, God lives in us, and his love is brought
to full expression in us.


......

John 6:46

New International Version (©1984)
No one has seen the Father except the one
who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
.......
New Living Translation (©2007)
(Not that anyone has ever seen the Father;
only I, who was sent from God, have seen him.)


All the persons abraham,sarah,lot etc saw were Yahwehs angels....

How can this simple truth be so hard for you guys to understand...

The bible does not contradict itself....

No one can see the Father and yet live...

frosbel:

Trust me , you will leave the catholic church like I did a few years ago, and you will find the REAL JESUS !!

Answer my question, How can Jesus have "authority to take it up again" if Jesus is not God but just a mere man? Please to answer that question.

I am not a Roman Catholic, they are false. Roman Catholic is an oxymoron you can't be Roman (local) and catholic (universal) at the sametime.

gbrookes02:

I and others have done that in many past posts to you all, and you all just ignore them all.

You opened nothing....

No scripture supports the false stand that 50 %(human nature alone) of Jesus died and was ressurected.......

Now this is one big heresy and lie.......

No scripture supports that crap

gbrookes02:

Answer my question, How can Jesus have "authority to take it up again" if Jesus is not God but just a mere man? Please to answer that question.

I am not a Roman Catholic, they are false.

I just responded, did you not read my comments ?

Paul and Peter's testimony is good enough for me.

You say you are not a catholic but you hold unto their belief system , how can this be ?