Ijebulogic:

I see your point. I'm interested in knowing specifically what the law says. I know of a recent case where a British man was sentenced to jail for shooting and injuring (not killing) some rascal teenagers attempting to break into his house. There was outrage in the UK but that was the law. Our law is based on UK common law, so please lawyers in the house should guide us on what our rights are in Nigeria.

I think where you may have gotten it wrong was in the case of the British man, the kids did not present any threat (as in just burglars and not armed). And there may have been use of excessive force meaning after threatening with a gun, he may not have needed to fire the gun. Lastly, he may have illegal possession of the gun. Sorry, I didn't really bother to refresh on the circumstances around the shooting.

They also threatened to kill you if you did not open the door

According to the bolded statement above, its a clear evidence that either they are armed robbers or hired killers. to be honest with you, I will waste them all, at least that is one of the reason that I have a licenced gun, its for my personal safety and defence.

but in the case of ALUU, the boys were caught without any weapon or stolen items, which makes it barbaric to lynched them in broad day light. even the law allows you to kill in defence of your live, family and property but not in a situation were you had already disarmed and arrested the intruder.

yuzedo:

Myth? Really?

Smh! I was so irritated by your comment i almost abused you. So Seun pays me to come on NL and share myths abi? I stand to gain what exactly by propagating "myths"??

I don't want to reveal too much because the internet is a small place and he is a public figure. He or his kids (or any of my relatives/his relatives privy to the encounter) may be reading. You are entitled to your opinion. Me,i'm just proud of the nigger. He has proved over the years that he has balls of steel.

So, you couldn't see a lot of loopholes in what you just narrated?Jeez!

Pimples: I seriously Hope you are Joking

Joking ke? m not joking oooo the high BP that hidiot gave me many times is annoying . i don't get to open my window when there's no light, have to sleep in a stuffy room because of that fool; n u say m joking? joke kor joke ni!!!! He should come to my window again!!! na God know wetin go happen!!!!

ile naira: .

The internet is such a small place, he/his kids may be reading and you're so proud of him you honour him with the title nig*er? wow, cool

Oh boy.. Here we go again; the nigger debate!
Nigger can be a term of endearment or an insult... Completely contextual.

all4naija: So, you couldn't see a lot of loopholes in what you just narrated?Jeez!

**Shrug** You actually got me considering/contemplating the merits and demerits of trying to substantiate my recount. However, i think i'll just sit back and enjoy the thread.. No need for long talk bros, if u no believe, shun am.

Ijebulogic: Ever so often, we humans get tested by incidents around us. Despite the anger and disgust most feel for the gruesome murder of the Uniport 4, it raises other moral questions.

Here is the scenario: Its 2am and you are asleep with you wife, new born child and aged mother-in-law. 4 Armed robbers are hacking away at your door screaming that you will be dead tonight if you dont open the door.

Assume you have a licenced shotgun in the house, Would you stand as a man and defend your family by killing all four? If no, what are your options? If Yes, how are you better than the ALUU killers? Its a moral dilemma. Comments please.

Dude u don't have a point,there is no comparison between the the scenes,even if those boys where guilty they were caught,handing them over to the police was the logical thing to do,a civilised person can kill a robber in self defence,but he will never kill a man in the manner of Aluu,why are u trying to justify allu,s actions,are u from there?

Ijebulogic: Ever so often, we humans get tested by incidents around us. Despite the anger and disgust most feel for the gruesome murder of the Uniport 4, it raises other moral questions.

Here is the scenario: Its 2am and you are asleep with you wife, new born child and aged mother-in-law. 4 Armed robbers are hacking away at your door screaming that you will be dead tonight if you dont open the door.

Assume you have a licenced shotgun in the house, Would you stand as a man and defend your family by killing all four? If no, what are your options? If Yes, how are you better than the ALUU killers? Its a moral dilemma. Comments please.

[size=18pt]Does it mean that you don't know the difference between murder and self defence [/size]

yuzedo: I was dishing out the story on another thread of how my uncle was under siege in his house with about 12 robbers (including women) who were hell-bent on robbing (and perhaps killing) his rich as(s)!

They had killed one of his security dogs while the other bailed the f(u)ck out.

Did my uncle falter? Did his heart fail? Was he lacking in tactical discipline and wavering courage? F(u)ck No! He looked at his fine-a(s)s wife and his young kids and made the decision that only MEN make... He'd defend them or die trying!

The robbers thought they had covered all loopholes, cutting his telephone wires (in the 09's) and bribing the police to stay away. They just didnt consider his "lack of bitchmadeness".

Operation lasted from 1am till 5am. They tried to burn down the house and smoke them out, he had fire extinguishers on the ready. They tried to negotiate and ask him to surrender. He told them to f(uck) themselves, he had bullets to last 3days. They threatened, they cajoled, they begged him to throw down some money (and jewelry insisted the female robbers), his reply was two bursts of gunfire in the air to signal end of negotiations!

At the end of the operation, the score was:

Robbers: Three dead (including their leader whose head got sniped the 4k off, apparently he wore an iron bucket/flower pot to protect his head while climbing a verandah, my uncle ignored him till he was in clear sight and dispatched him to hades).. Several injured and demoralized.

My Uncle: One guard dog dead. One security guard dead. Family traumatised.

6am that very morning, he moved his family out to a new home in Victoria Island to forestall a reprisal attack. Nobody has bleeped with him since then...
#TRUESTORY

[b][/b]

The last bit has to be my best read on Nairaland for awhile. "Dispatched him to hades" Wooooord!!!

Hmm I'd aim to disarm\injure, don't think I can kill.

Pacify: I can understand your point of view coming from that angle but I want to be believe that there's a distinct difference between a set of robbers threatening to kill you and the speculation without any proof that some set of boys were robbers. Besides, since the boys were caught, it would have been fair justice to hand them over to the police rather than lynch them in broad day light

^^^^

Ijebulogic: Quite some time ago but still holds in UK Law...


Audrey Gillan

The Guardian, Thursday 20 April 2000 10.52 BST


Tony Martin, the Norfolk farmer who shot a teenage boy in the back as he tried to burgle his isolated farmhouse, was yesterday found guilty of murder and sent to prison for life at the end of a case that touched a raw nerve across rural Britain.
In spite of cries of "yes, yes" and "I hope you die in jail" from the family of 16-year-old Fred Barras, the farmer - flanked by two police officers after receiving threats on his life - remained unmoved.

Martin was found guilty of murder by a jury of six men and six women who had earlier given not guilty verdicts on charges of attempting to murder another man, the burglar Brendon Fearon, and of possession of a firearm and ammunition with intent to injure life. He was found guilty of wounding Fearon with intent to kill.

Passing three sentences of life, 10 years and 12 months to run concurrently, Mr Justice Owen said: "It seems to me that this case serves as a dire warning to all burglars who break into the houses of other people.

"The law is that every citizen is entitled to use reasonable force to prevent crime. Burglary is a crime and a householder in his own home may think he is being reasonable but he may not be reasonable and that can have tragic consequences."

Martin killed Barras, a market trader from a Gypsy travelling family based in Newark, Nottinghamshire, last August during a late-night incident at his farm. The teenager, who had a number of convictions, was on his "first big job" to burgle Martin's home, Bleak House. He and Fearon were attacked by one of the farmer's rottweilers as they tried to get away.

The court heard that Martin, who had a vitriolic hatred for burglars and Gypsies, had come downstairs with a pump-action Winchester shotgun and fired at the two men.

Barras had pleaded for his life, shouting: "I'm sorry. Please don't. Mum." In panic, Fearon, who was seriously injured, pulled out a rotten window and he and Barras jumped through. It was not until the next afternoon that the teenage boy's body was found.

Norwich crown court heard that Martin - who took a 4ft teddy bear with him to court every day - had been repeatedly burgled and that he had laid booby traps and lookout posts for anyone who came onto his property.

Peter Tidey, the chief crown prosecutor for Norfolk, said: "Actions such as that taken by Tony Martin cannot be tolerated in a civilised society. When people break the law it is for the law to punish them, not for individuals to take the law into their own hands, whether acting out of revenge or their own individual system of justice."

The Barras family, who attended the court in large numbers every day, last night issued a statement saying: "As Fred's family we cannot and do not condone his actions. We are aware that he had failings and would have expected him to be dealt with and punished in the criminal justice system. He was not given that chance."

The verdict will be greeted with horror by the farmer's many supporters across the country who believed he did the right thing. Yesterday morning as he arrived in court an official passed on a handful of letters of support to add to the hundreds he received throughout the case.

A close friend of Martin, Malcolm Starr, said: "I'm absolutely devastated by the outcome and to be quite honest I think the whole country will be genuinely gobsmacked.

"If people were put away for longer for burglaries then they would not have been there and they would not have been shot."

The media agent Max Clifford, who gave Martin free advice, said last night he believed the conviction was a miscarriage of justice.

Martin's mother Hilary, 86, said it should have been the burglars in the dock and not her son. She added: "I am shocked. I am disappointed. I can't believe it. Because of this verdict decent people will not be able to sleep at night. He was merely defending himself against people who were thieves and vagabonds."

Martin's solicitor, Nick Makin, said he would appeal.

The 16 year old was a BURGLAR not an ARMED robber..

Ijebulogic: Quite some time ago but still holds in UK Law...


Audrey Gillan

The Guardian, Thursday 20 April 2000 10.52 BST


Tony Martin, the Norfolk farmer who shot a teenage boy in the back as he tried to burgle his isolated farmhouse, was yesterday found guilty of murder and sent to prison for life at the end of a case that touched a raw nerve across rural Britain.
In spite of cries of "yes, yes" and "I hope you die in jail" from the family of 16-year-old Fred Barras, the farmer - flanked by two police officers after receiving threats on his life - remained unmoved.

Martin was found guilty of murder by a jury of six men and six women who had earlier given not guilty verdicts on charges of attempting to murder another man, the burglar Brendon Fearon, and of possession of a firearm and ammunition with intent to injure life. He was found guilty of wounding Fearon with intent to kill.

Passing three sentences of life, 10 years and 12 months to run concurrently, Mr Justice Owen said: "It seems to me that this case serves as a dire warning to all burglars who break into the houses of other people.

"The law is that every citizen is entitled to use reasonable force to prevent crime. Burglary is a crime and a householder in his own home may think he is being reasonable but he may not be reasonable and that can have tragic consequences."

Martin killed Barras, a market trader from a Gypsy travelling family based in Newark, Nottinghamshire, last August during a late-night incident at his farm. The teenager, who had a number of convictions, was on his "first big job" to burgle Martin's home, Bleak House. He and Fearon were attacked by one of the farmer's rottweilers as they tried to get away.

The court heard that Martin, who had a vitriolic hatred for burglars and Gypsies, had come downstairs with a pump-action Winchester shotgun and fired at the two men.

Barras had pleaded for his life, shouting: "I'm sorry. Please don't. Mum." In panic, Fearon, who was seriously injured, pulled out a rotten window and he and Barras jumped through. It was not until the next afternoon that the teenage boy's body was found.

Norwich crown court heard that Martin - who took a 4ft teddy bear with him to court every day - had been repeatedly burgled and that he had laid booby traps and lookout posts for anyone who came onto his property.

Peter Tidey, the chief crown prosecutor for Norfolk, said: "Actions such as that taken by Tony Martin cannot be tolerated in a civilised society. When people break the law it is for the law to punish them, not for individuals to take the law into their own hands, whether acting out of revenge or their own individual system of justice."

The Barras family, who attended the court in large numbers every day, last night issued a statement saying: "As Fred's family we cannot and do not condone his actions. We are aware that he had failings and would have expected him to be dealt with and punished in the criminal justice system. He was not given that chance."

The verdict will be greeted with horror by the farmer's many supporters across the country who believed he did the right thing. Yesterday morning as he arrived in court an official passed on a handful of letters of support to add to the hundreds he received throughout the case.

A close friend of Martin, Malcolm Starr, said: "I'm absolutely devastated by the outcome and to be quite honest I think the whole country will be genuinely gobsmacked.

"If people were put away for longer for burglaries then they would not have been there and they would not have been shot."

The media agent Max Clifford, who gave Martin free advice, said last night he believed the conviction was a miscarriage of justice.

Martin's mother Hilary, 86, said it should have been the burglars in the dock and not her son. She added: "I am shocked. I am disappointed. I can't believe it. Because of this verdict decent people will not be able to sleep at night. He was merely defending himself against people who were thieves and vagabonds."

Martin's solicitor, Nick Makin, said he would appeal.

The 16 year old was a BURGLAR not an ARMED robber..

just shoot d motherfucker and ask questions later..

the logic in original op statment is really "ijebulogic"

how are both analogous?

yuzedo: I was dishing out the story on another thread of how my uncle was under siege in his house with about 12 robbers (including women) who were hell-bent on robbing (and perhaps killing) his rich as(s)!

They had killed one of his security dogs while the other bailed the f(u)ck out.

Did my uncle falter? Did his heart fail? Was he lacking in tactical discipline and wavering courage? F(u)ck No! He looked at his fine-a(s)s wife and his young kids and made the decision that only MEN make... He'd defend them or die trying!

The robbers thought they had covered all loopholes, cutting his telephone wires (in the 09's) and bribing the police to stay away. They just didnt consider his "lack of bitchmadeness".

Operation lasted from 1am till 5am. They tried to burn down the house and smoke them out, he had fire extinguishers on the ready. They tried to negotiate and ask him to surrender. He told them to f(uck) themselves, he had bullets to last 3days. They threatened, they cajoled, they begged him to throw down some money (and jewelry insisted the female robbers), his reply was two bursts of gunfire in the air to signal end of negotiations!

At the end of the operation, the score was:

Robbers: Three dead (including their leader whose head got sniped the 4k off, apparently he wore an iron bucket/flower pot to protect his head while climbing a verandah, my uncle ignored him till he was in clear sight and dispatched him to hades).. Several injured and demoralized.

My Uncle: One guard dog dead. One security guard dead. Family traumatised.

6am that very morning, he moved his family out to a new home in Victoria Island to forestall a reprisal attack. Nobody has bleeped with him since then...
#TRUESTORY

Guy, almost the same thing happen to a Group Captain and his son in the North...

The son, also an Air force Officer, was coming back from the bank and noticed the fools trailing him...
The dude managed to out speed them and get into the house, where his waiting father with a loaded 9mm stood....

Score line: About 2 robbers were shot, and father took a hit to his arm....

The fools came back for reprisal attack and you could guess the scoreline

this is not rocket science.neither is it a question of morality.the most primitive reflex of any living thing is the instinct for survival. i'll shoot them and make damn sure they are dead.if there is twitcher amongst them,i'll shoot him again.then i'll shoot them once again to make damn sure they stay dead....

Gaiden k:
Dude u don't have a point,there is no comparison between the the scenes,even if those boys where guilty they were caught,handing them over to the police was the logical thing to do,a civilised person can kill a robber in self defence,but he will never kill a man in the manner of Aluu,why are u trying to justify allu,s actions,are u from there?

Sigh...firstly, i wasnt making a point, i was asking a question. Please read post again and read the earlier clarifications. The Uniport 4 were referenced and not the TOPIC of the post. The question was what would you do? Some have said they'll outright Kill, some have said No killing despite the circumstances, some have said shoot to injure not to kill. What would you do?

Killing is an understatement compared to wat i'm gonna do if i'm in such situation...

ocelot2006:


If you're referring to th rifle in your pic, that's an AKS-74U with a modified stock and Eotech optics. No under-barrel grenade launcher.

Sorry dude, this is what an AKS-74U looks like....

Besides i checked your profile, the C-130 Hercules that greeted me there, just placed a smile on my face....


Hope to share more tech experiences with you...

yuzedo:
............ Oh boy.. Here we go again; the nigger debate!
Nigger can be a term of endearment or an insult... Completely contextual.

Term of endearment ehn?

boy to mum and dad: Yo! ma nig*ers! good morning
Dad whozez boy with hot slap: You dey craze!?
Mum: I don't tell am make e no dey watch silly American film and think na so life be! E no dey hear word! pangolo gangster!

It's instinct to kill em all before you risk loosing at least a member of your precious familly....chikina

@ OP
You're terribly wrong to compare a likely scenario of armed robbers going to kill you in your house with the #ALUU4 that were murdered by some blood-thirsty community people

Whose so ever asked or compared the aluu4 killings to arm robbers needs a psychological check. Seun what would you expect me to do? Open my door or allow them force it open, rape my loving wife, send my mother inlaw to her early grave and give me high blood pressure. Seun it won't work for you in jesus name. Amennnnn.

Myself2: @ OP
You're terribly wrong to compare a likely scenario of armed robbers going to kill you in your house with the #ALUU4 that were murdered by some blood-thirsty community people

Sir...Is there ever a "right" time to Kill? thats the dilemma. So sir, would you shoot and kill them...yes/no?

Before nko? I should leave them so they will come and rap.e me and my wife?

This is what happend to the Robber that attempted to break into my house. Please, will i go to jail ? The guy is still hanging on my fence and i've not notified the police. Am still thinking if i should leave him there for a whole year as a sign of warning to every other aspiring robbers waiting to break in.

Ijebulogic: Ever so often, we humans get tested by incidents around us. Despite the anger and disgust most feel for the gruesome murder of the Uniport 4, it raises other moral questions.

Here is the scenario: Its 2am and you are asleep with you wife, new born child and aged mother-in-law. 4 Armed robbers are hacking away at your door screaming that you will be dead tonight if you dont open the door.

Assume you have a licenced shotgun in the house, Would you stand as a man and defend your family by killing all four? If no, what are your options? If Yes, how are you better than the ALUU killers? Its a moral dilemma. Comments please.

. Op if i have de chance i go finish de four wait for de fift 1 may be de driver or de informer.

Pacify: I can understand your point of view coming from that angle but I want to be believe that there's a distinct difference between a set of robbers threatening to kill you and the speculation without any proof that some set of boys were robbers. Besides, since the boys were caught, it would have been fair justice to hand them over to the police rather than lynch them in broad day light

well said! In 1996, abt 8 robbers came 2 our house at mid nite. It ws d 4th time dey were visiting witout success. It ws d gun shot dat woke me up, as i try 2 hide under d bed, i saw my mother praying. My younger & i joined her bt d sound d main heavily fortified doors & gun shots throu d windows stopped us. We started shouting 4 help which none came. We were all shivering as if we had serious fever due 2 d tension. Our tenants all hid themselves. In d Past, witout gun shots, we shout & shout, dey will go. As we were waiting 4 d worst, my mother brought out raw acid which she bought due 2 d last attack. It ws in a 'big tura cream lotion'. It ws nw a do or die mata. I off d power in d whole house, hid mysef at d door 2 our apartment. D back door fell, they enter in2 a tenant room, spend lik 2mins, aft serious beating, head 2 ours. As dey break d door open, i sprayed dem wit d acid. Dey ran 4 their life. Abt 5 of dem were well sprayed all over& bathed cos i chased dem 2 exit door. Day break, we recovered masks, cutlasses, good touches & empty bullets. God saved us dat nite. So, am i in d same class wit aluu pple?

Pacify: I can understand your point of view coming from that angle but I want to be believe that there's a distinct difference between a set of robbers threatening to kill you and the speculation without any proof that some set of boys were robbers. Besides, since the boys were caught, it would have been fair justice to hand them over to the police rather than lynch them in broad day light

well said! In 1996, abt 8 robbers came 2 our house at mid nite. It ws d 4th time dey were visiting witout success. It ws d gun shot dat woke me up, as i try 2 hide under d bed, i saw my mother praying. My younger & i joined her bt d sound d main heavily fortified doors & gun shots throu d windows stopped us. We started shouting 4 help which none came. We were all shivering as if we had serious fever due 2 d tension. Our tenants all hid themselves. In d Past, witout gun shots, we shout & shout, dey will go. As we were waiting 4 d worst, my mother brought out raw acid which she bought due 2 d last attack. It ws in a 'big tura cream lotion'. It ws nw a do or die mata. I off d power in d whole house, hid mysef at d door 2 our apartment. D back door fell, they enter in2 a tenant room, spend lik 2mins, aft serious beating, head 2 ours. As dey break d door open, i sprayed dem wit d acid. Dey ran 4 their life. Abt 5 of dem were well sprayed all over& bathed cos i chased dem 2 exit door. Day break, we recovered masks, cutlasses, good touches & empty bullets. God saved us dat nite. So, am i in d same class wit aluu pple?

There is no law which authorizes the killing of a person merely because he is a notorious thief or because he is caught stealing.
A private person is authorized to arrest a thief. if he does so and after arrest the thief seeks to escape, then he may kill provided he believes on reasonable grounds that his conduct is necessary in other to prevent the escape and offence is such that the offender may be arrested without warrant.
If a private person seeks to arrest a thief who is not violent and did not resist arrest, it is unlawful to kill the thief.
At common law, homicide committed while acting in reasonable self-defence of oneself is excusable. If a man is violently attacked by another and reasonably believing himself to be in immediate danger of death he kills his assailants, this is not an unlawful killing, but the common law required that the person attacked should retreat as far as possible before retaliating.
Generally speaking, if a person having no right to do so kills a thief, the offence is MURDER. It is only an executioner that has the right to kill and he must have been given the right to do so by a court of competent jurisdiction.

Ijebulogic: Ever so often, we humans get tested by incidents around us. Despite the anger and disgust most feel for the gruesome murder of the Uniport 4, it raises other moral questions.

Here is the scenario: Its 2am and you are asleep with you wife, new born child and aged mother-in-law. 4 Armed robbers are hacking away at your door screaming that you will be dead tonight if you dont open the door.

Assume you have a licenced shotgun in the house, Would you stand as a man and defend your family by killing all four? If no, what are your options? If Yes, how are you better than the ALUU killers? Its a moral dilemma. Comments please.

i have a right to defend my family and my home! if robbers hacked into my house at night, i would pump bullets into them! the comparison to aluu-4 is also a bit idiotic. aluu community should have just put those boys against the wall and fire shots at them, it would have been better that way than the barbaric torture and murder! if i catch robbers hacking into my house, i can only shoot at them, there's no way i would smash their heads with a plank and set them on fire! one can defend one's home in self defence without being barbaric!

In this type of situation there are two things involve : It's either you kill or be killed.