TroGunn:

At least you should try and get some knowledge on something you are so determined to criticize. I said Christ's death was written about by Isaiah even before Christ was born so the idea of a messiah is not a Gnostic idea. Book of Isaiah is not in the new testatment. The Dead Sea scrolls, which shows these Isaiah's texts, is dated at least a hundred years before Christ. You should look at things with an open mind - that's how you determine what's true.

rhymz: which logic is unparalleled?
That there exist one god with three ppl inside him? Can you honestly explain to me why God needed Jesus to be murdered by human beings just so he God can be glorified? Ego boost or just to remind himself of his god status? Couldn'r he have saved the world with neccessarily sending his alleged son on a suicide mission to apease his own ego? How is that logical.
How about the inconsistent tales of how Jesus died, from Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, their accounts of his death are all inconsistent hogwash. Don't get me started mr

rhymz: You mean this type of details and harmony..lol
JESUS' LAST WORDS ON THE CROSS
MAT 27:46,50
"And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again witha loud voice, yielded up the ghost."
LUK 23:46
"And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
JOHN 19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" andhe bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
4. HOW MANY TIMES DID THE rooster CROW? MARK14:72
And the second time the rooster crew. And Petercalled to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the rooster crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.
MAT 26:74
Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the rooster crew.
MAT 26:75
And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, whichsaid unto him, Before the rooster crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.
LUK 22:60
And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the rooster crew.
LUK 22:61
And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the rooster crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
JOH 13:38
Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The rooster shall not crow, still thou hast denied me thrice.
JOH 18:27
Peter then denied again: and immediately the rooster crew

rhymz: My friend you seem to think or assume that Christianity and Judaism are thesame thing, huh? Isaiah was a jewish prophet with an entirely different concept of the messiah christians turned Jesus to. Till date, you can go and do your research, Jewish people concept of messaiah is not the one that will come to die for anyone and then go back to heaven. The messaiah isaiah talked about was the one that will free the Jewish ppl who then were under serious Roman persecution and lead a kingdom on earth that will destroy the roman rule and establish a prosperous Jewish one. Before Jesus they had assumed different prophets as messiahs. Meanwhile, the Pauline writers came, crept into the jewish messianic beliefs and tirned Jesus into some divine messiah that came to die for some sin me I no sabi about.

TroGunn:

Christianity is different from Judaism, though it's built from it. I do agree with your point about most jews expecting a more political messiah to free them from opressive Caesar - whch largely explains their rejection of Christ. Whether their "quick fix" expectation was accurate and based on the Old Testament prophecies about the messaih is subject of another discussion/thread. Isaiah definitely mentioned the messiah being killed.

Maybe on another thread. We've monopolized this muslim thread enough and gotta call it a night.

Sweetnecta: the muslims, instead of heaven will make PARADISE, InshaAllah.

let the christians keep their "HEAVEN".

We are satisfied with "PARADISE".

Sweetnecta: the muslims, instead of heaven will make PARADISE, InshaAllah.

let the christians keep their "HEAVEN".

We are satisfied with "PARADISE".

Sweetnecta: ^^^You meant the christian will see Jehovah.

You have to be consistent in your choice of language region.

I am sure that you must have heard of Cat Steven of the 1970s rock era?


He is now a muslim and definitely if he were talking to his children in his native English, he will say God to mean Allah.


Muslims who enter Paradise will see The FACE OF ALLAH as The Greatest Reward.
Those muslims who were hypocrites will see THE FACE only ONCE before entering Hell Fire.
The seeing jut Once for the briefest of time is a punishment because they now have seen what is the Greatest Reward and will never see THIS REWARD again.

It will hurt [in the Greatest of Degree] in a similitude of seeing something you want of enjoyment in this life, but never you can get to it or made available to you [you love it but you never gonna get it].

Something like that. The enjoyments in Paradise is nothing to SEEING THE FACE OF ALLAH CONSTANTLY. I pray that all humans on earth now and those to come have this Greatest Reward. Amin.


This is available except those who do not want THE REWARD. I am sure all of us want good things.

caseless: dem, dont tell me the knowledge u have of ur religion is this half-baked. Religion cant b parallel when they answer to thesame name 'religion', the ettiquetes are what i consider as their difference. If ur way of life or belief is differnt from ours, it is becos ur religion was not left un-altered or un-adultrated by ur so called writers who never met, knew or ate with jesus christ. I'm waiting for the fourth God in the person of apostle paul. Who was he? U need to take ur time out and study muslims way of life before u jump into conclusion based on stereotypes...dont use actions of a few to judge the rest, cos if thats a proper thing to do the we'd hav judged christanity based on action of some churches where we have gays and lesbians as bishops and leaders repectively or based on actions of some now-a-days pastors. How do u justify the action of some of ur christain brothers in britain, us and isreal?

maclatunji: Ok Rhymz has seen many flaws in Christianity and is wary of Islam. It is a natural thing for an increasing number of people like him to claim to be Atheists when in actual fact, they're crying out for answers. 

A fascinating predicament they're in.

afam4eva: Believe what you see in the bible while they'll believe what they see in the koran. You can't use the Bible to qualify a Muslim neither can you use the Quoran to qualify a Christian.

rhymz: you make it sound like my wariness about ISLAM is unfounded. Sorry bro, just like Christianity, Islam is rife with inconsistencies and stoopid illogical beliefs that defiles common sense. Just like the books of the bible, the Koran and Hadith were chosen from the countless many in circulation and pronounced holy and divine by a group of mere mortals; these men choose which books were to be called holy and divine and which ones are to be called heresy. You and I know that the hadith for instance has other very unfavourable versions that have been declared heretic jobs because of their unpalatable accounts of Moh's life and sayings. To be honest, if I were forced to choose between islam and Christianity, trust me, the former wont stand a chance in my considerations.
Besides, I don't remember describing myself here as an Atheist, just because I am bold enough to puncture holes in the claims of mainstream religions does not mean you should draw conclusions that I am yet to reach for myself.

maclatunji:

You are wary of Islam because you have never had the chance to independently study and understand it. Most of you guys dash to AntiIslamic sources when you say "you want to study Islam." Well duh! What do you expect to get? A favourable picture?
It's like going to Roman Abrahamovich seeking to learn "how to be a good Manchester United fan." How wise is that?

caseless: if he indeed died for ur sin, why do u stil tag urself a sinner? Ok, commit more sins and lets see if u wil not account for all ur deeds before God on the day of judgement. Abi jesus go come die for dere too to shield u from facing judgement? Smh

thorpido: [b]The same way many muslims have also gotten their knowledge from antichristian sources and the islamic scholars.[/b]One that amazes me most is when they say Jesus spoke about Mohammed in the Bible.It's always easy to point a finger.

caseless: i asked the guy a question he hasn'nt answered. Who was paul, mathew and john? These people never met , ate or knew jesus christ. The least of some of those writers whose writeups are now somehow part of the bible wrote 40-80 after the death of jesus. If the old testament was not distorted, then he shld be able to tel u the church jesus built, worshiped and which of the days he went to church for service? Nothin is original about them.

maclatunji:

On the contrary, many Muslims get first hand information about Christianity from Christians. Go to most private schools, you will find Christian teachers singling out Muslim children out for special attention and indoctrination.

I remember one time I was asked to lead the morning assembly prayer. I deliberately mixed-up "The Lord's Prayer" and "The Grace". I just wasn't impressed that the same routine was followed everyday.

My 100% in Bible knowledge was like guaranteed. Some of your pastors now would not match me in class.

Christian teachers are always "evangelising". They can't stop, they are addicted. #Hehehe.

stuhporh:

I understand your questions, so am jumping in to answer. Mathew knew john and even paul. Sir, paul knew peter and the rest of the Disciples, am sure you can connect the dots there. Jesus Christ was an example of a powerfull man who refuses to opress with the powers. He had disciples that were ready to fight hi antagonist, but will ask them not to. he had power over everything, all these, GOD granted him the grace to do. I will not false QURAN so far GOD is connected to it but i will fault Prophet Mhammed because he was not a good example to follow compared to JESUS.


maclatunji:

Tell me the name of your Mother's father's grandfather. I am sure you can't but you're here. That person did exist at one point. I don't need one name for they were several amongst the Jews.

If you believe that Jacob fought God in a physical fight in order to become Israel than you need some help. There are so many evidences of corruption of different parts of the Bible, don't play dumb for argument sake. It will be thoroughly thrashed

Jacob Fought an Angel. point of correction. Look if you can control your state of mind and concentrate on GOD(ALLAH) for some day forget mhamed and JESUS, you will be redirected to JESUS CHRIST.