thorpido: You can read the letter,having d spirit of the Word is a different thing entirely.There is a Scripture that says ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of the Truth.Anyone can choose to give the Bible his/her own interpretation.

How cute? It's all about the spirit now. Ok O.

maclatunji:

Thank you for buttressing my point. Your own Bible says Jacob fought an angel. I have seen one that says he fought God.

Which one make we believe?

Please dont just say someething, say something with proofs. which bible did you read? what version?

stuhporh:

Please dont just say someething, say something with proofs. which bible did you read? what version?

JACOB WRESTLES WITH GOD

Text: Genesis 32:21-32. "So went the
present over before him: and himself
lodged that night in the company.

22 And he rose up that night, and took his two
wives, and his two womenservants, and
his eleven sons, and passed over the ford
Jabbok.

23 And he took them, and sent
them over the brook, and sent over that he
had.

24 And Jacob was left alone; and there
wrestled a man with him until the
breaking of the day.

25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.

26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.

27 And he said unto him, What is thy
name? And he said, Jacob.

28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast
prevailed.

29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.

30 And Jacob called the name of the place
Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and
my life is preserved.

31 And as he passed over Penuel t
he sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh. 32 Therefore the children of Israel eat not of the sinew which shrank, which is upon the hollow of the thigh, unto this day: because he
touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh in the
sinew that shrank."

Please read a pastor's commentary on these verses at source here:
http://www.gospelweb.net/ronsermons/jacobwrestleswithgod.htm

maclatunji:


JACOB WRESTLES WITH GOD

Text: Genesis 32:21-32. "So went the
present over before him: and himself
lodged that night in the company.

22 And he rose up that night, and took his two
wives, and his two womenservants, and
his eleven sons, and passed over the ford
Jabbok.

23 And he took them, and sent
them over the brook, and sent over that he
had.

24 And Jacob was left alone; and there
wrestled a man with him until the
breaking of the day.

25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.

26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.

27 And he said unto him, What is thy
name? And he said, Jacob.

28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast
prevailed.

29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.

30 And Jacob called the name of the place
Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and
my life is preserved.

31 And as he passed over Penuel t
he sun rose upon him, and he halted upon his thigh. 32 Therefore the children of Israel eat not of the sinew which shrank, which is upon the hollow of the thigh, unto this day: because he
touched the hollow of Jacob's thigh in the
sinew that shrank."

Please read a pastor's commentary on these verses at source here:
http://www.gospelweb.net/ronsermons/jacobwrestleswithgod.htm

Jacob engaged and refused to let go of an angel until he received a blessing. Jacob knew the angel is God's messenger or representative - he was obviously not speaking literally as seing God's face.

As usual, other parts of the Bible provide clarity on what happened and how it was understood by the people at the time - :

Hosea 12:2-4
American Standard Version (ASV)

2 Jehovah hath also a controversy with Judah, and will punish Jacob according to his ways; according to his doings will he recompense him.

3 In the womb he took his brother by the heel; and in his manhood he had power with God:

4 yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed; he wept, and made supplication unto him : he found him at Beth-el, and there he spake with us



That pastor needs help.

^He is not the only one that believes it. I read the story in a Bible book of stories for children. Several Bibles hold it to be true.

maclatunji: ^He is not the only one that believes it. I read the story in a Bible book of stories for children. Several Bibles hold it to be true.

What do you mean by "Several Bibles hold it to be true"? Hold what to be true?

True, many who profess Christianity believe and teach untruths due to a lack of real knowledge of the Bible. Such ones will attempt to explain Bible texts like the pastor above and possibly the author of kid's book you read.

TroGunn:

What do you mean by "Several Bibles hold it to be true"? Hold what to be true?

True, many who profess Christianity believe and teach untruths due to a lack of real knowledge of the Bible. Such ones will attempt to explain Bible texts like the pastor above and possibly the author of kid's book you read.

Who determines the "proper" Christian between you and them? The pastor has a greater leverage and clout than you.

maclatunji:

Who determines the "proper" Christian between you and them? The pastor has a greater leverage and clout than you.

Good for you for allowing those with "clout and leverage" to think for you. What the Bereans did makes much more sense to me than just accept all someone spouts because they supposedly have "clout", whatever their clout is:

International Standard Version (©2008)
These people were more receptive than those in Thessalonica. They were very willing to receive the message, and every day they carefully examined the Scriptures to see if those things were so. Acts 17:11

^Well that didn't work obviously. Let's face it, your Bible has different versions and you have chosen the one that suits you others have chosen those which suit them.

The conclusion is none is reliable!

maclatunji: ^Well that didn't work obviously. Let's face it, your Bible has different versions and you have chosen the one that suits you others have chosen those which suit them.

The conclusion is none is reliable!

A person who wants to know the real picture will consider other Bible texts that deals on an issue and get overall idea from there, not pick verses that suits already held ideas. It has nothing to do with the reliability of the Bible.

Facts remains people will always believe what they want to believe. What factors determine what they choose to believe - a real desire to know and adhere to the facts, ignorance, personal interest/gain, etc. For example, there are some who focus on "posperity" verses and preach it week in week out because it's what people want to hear. They'll happily ignore the other verses that deal on things that are even more important. For them it's all about what they can gain.

And it's not peculiar to Christianity. It's no different from some who bomb churches and kill people as a means of furthering their religion, and base their actions on some Koranic verses. Some of you would disagree with such people, but it is what it is.

TroGunn:

Jacob engaged and refused to let go of an angel until he received a blessing. Jacob knew the angel is God's messenger or representative - he was obviously not speaking literally as seing God's face.

As usual, other parts of the Bible provide clarity on what happened and how it was understood by the people at the time - :

Hosea 12:2-4
American Standard Version (ASV)

2 Jehovah hath also a controversy with Judah, and will punish Jacob according to his ways; according to his doings will he recompense him.

3 In the womb he took his brother by the heel; and in his manhood he had power with God:

4 yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed; he wept, and made supplication unto him : he found him at Beth-el, and there he spake with us



That pastor needs help.

bros that argument is flawed and makes little sense, not when the jacob guy claims that he had seen God face to face. That the 'man' he, Jacob fought with was a god is amply demonstrated - Jacob asked for his blessing, and he had the prerogative of changing Jacob's name. The new name he gave Jacob was Israel (generally assumed to mean "wrestled with God') and Jacob called the place Peniel ('the faceof God') because he had seen God face to face.
I wonder why christian like twisting the bible when it does not says what they would have wished it said. Again, the claims this bible page is contradictory and makes nonsense of the bible's claims that no man can see God because one has to be perfect to see him. Unless being a lier, a cheat and deciever like Jacob is all the virtues that one needs to see God or better still the story like many other incoherent stories of the bible is a pile of crappy, zizzag story that makes no logical sense.

rhymz: bros that argument is flawed and makes little sense, not when the jacob guy claims that he had seen God face to face. That the 'man' he, Jacob fought with was a god is amply demonstrated - Jacob asked for his blessing, and he had the prerogative of changing Jacob's name. The new name he gave Jacob was Israel (generally assumed to mean "wrestled with God') and Jacob called the place Peniel ('the faceof God') because he had seen God face to face.
I wonder why christian like twisting the bible when it does not says what they would have wished it said. Again, the claims this bible page is contradictory and makes nonsense of the bible's claims that no man can see God because one has to be perfect to see him. Unless being a lier, a cheat and deciever like Jacob is all the virtues that one needs to see God or better still the story like many other incoherent stories of the bible is a pile of crappy, zizzag story that makes no logical sense.

As I wrote earlier people will believe what they are determined to. Even though another verse shows it was an angel, you'd rather stick to the view that tallies with the position you already made your mind on. No point my dwelling on it.

nyameke: lol and what do you think that mean

what meaning did your thoughts give u.
Read JOHN 14 VS 6

nyameke: lol and what do you think that mean

what meaning did your thoughts give u.

Really learnt a lot sha. God will help us all to make it at last. so many questions to ask......

acidtalk: Let me throw a question back to you;

Someone who comes out to lie to millions of people that God called him and so therefore he is a man of God, He plays on the naïve nature of people by using their 10% tithe and offerings to buy fleets of private jet and build expensive school thereby denying the poor.

And a Muslim who genuinely shares what he has made legally to the needy, WHO DO YOU THINK WILL MAKE HEAVEN??


Not every so called christian will smell the gate of Heaven, most especially those that have used the name of God to deceive people.

r

neither of them will make heaven if they don't repent and accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and savoir.

Yes. Righteous Muslims will see GOD.

Cyracks: neither of them will make heaven if they don't repent and accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and savoir.

Says your contradictory bible. I still wonder why people will hold a book, believe a part of it and ignre another part of it and still claim it is holy! what other way can we define doggedness?

Logic thing if you can think: the Quran claims the way of your Lord will never change. A reasonable reason some part of the OT is confirmed in the Quran "LT"- i just used LT, the Quran is more than a testament. It is a Manual as well.

The straight answer to that question is a resounding YES!

There are so many sayings of the prophet that promises the sahabah and this ummah (muslim community) that they will see Allah (subhanahu Wata'ala). In one of his ahadiths (sayings), he (SAW) said that on the day of judgement, muslims we see Allah just as you can see a FULL MOON on a dark night. Come to think of it, if you are opportune to see the MOON when it is full, you know how clear, bright and illuminating it is. Nothing will block the view and it will be as clear as day light. That is exactly the way muslims will see Allah on that day. I PRAY THAT ME AND YOU BE AMONG THOSE!!!

In another hadith (saying) of the prophet, he narrated the ordeal of the muslims in jannah. He said that Allah (SWA) will appear before the muslims (in jannah) in his glorious and majesty. Allah would now ask them (the muslims in paradice) that what else do they want so as to complete their happiness (which they had been promised in this world). They (the muslims) will now say that, hmm! What else do they want, there is nothing else they want than jannah which they have been granted. Allah will now tell them that he has granted them Ridwan'Allah (that is:- he is completely happy and pleased with them).

The last hadith is where the prophet said that there is a veil that will shield Allah from his creations. But on the day of resurrection, after judgement has been done and the people of paradise have been sorted, the veil will be eventually be unveiled and the people of paradise will MARVEL at the appearance of Allah.