abdulkadir:

oh! So i thot. Sorry for misunderstandin you. Ikenna sometyms ago changed his but dont know whch brand a frend of his in d US recomended nd got it for him. He could help.
even tho d guy na LION!

Its ok Abdulkadir! Sometimes non facial respond can create mix feelings and misunderstanding , like as in the case of Smartchoice and Trac. If they saw their faces while responding, they would have been no need for all that names calling and so on.. i believe they must have been over it by now.

However, time was crucial for me, and that was my day out to go and get that problem solved. I just needed to trash it to its logical conclusion without overspending too on import or whatever. But needed to cruise that long awaited ride full time too to quench the hunger for it so that i could face other things

abdulkadir:

oh! So i thot. Sorry for misunderstandin you. Ikenna sometyms ago changed his but dont know whch brand a frend of his in d US recomended nd got it for him. He could help.
even tho d guy na LION!

I ordered for my ZN3J Thermostat from RockAuto via a friend in US, in December last year. The brand is Beck/Arnley. The part no. is 1430602. A quality thermostat, with heavy duty stainless steel spring. Also, it has Brass and copper power element, for quick response and long life. The price was $20.89

My friend shipped it via NIPOST. Unfortunately, NIPOST staffs entered strike before the item could get to Lagos. I had no option than to look for one here. I figured that since the failed factory one was Bosch, i could find it Benz shop, since Benz and Peugeot use Bosch products/components for their cars. The first Benz shop i entered at Gudu market, i saw it there. The brand i saw was Wahler. Unfortunately, the opening temp was too low to the factory. Stock one had 79 degree, while the Wahler had 71 degree. Well, i needed thermostat badly, so i bought it, since i was still waiting for one i ordered from US. The price of the Wahler was 1k. Very cheap!

The one i ordered from US arrived later in early February when they have called of the strike. It got 82 degree on it as the opening temp, which is even better than the factory. I quickly swapped it in and since then have noticed great improvement from the Wahler one. The temp guage now rises faster to 90 C, the middle of the guage, unlike the Wahler with 71 degree that was taken it eternity.

I plan to look for another Wahler themostart with 80+ degree, to keep as a spare.

I also want to use this opporunity to tell all Benz owners, check Peugeot shops as well when searching for Benz parts in Benz shops and you are not seeing them their. Because Peugeot and Benz use Bosch parts in all their cars. It may even be cheaper in Peugeot shops.

Ikenna.

@Ikenna, Oga Lion thanks for the enlightenment.

au.hanson:


Ok! thanks Trace, you didn't give me this part, the Japanese brand? Can you be a bit specific, atleast that will leave me with some options? I got that one to keep me going while still on the look for i supposed reliable but affordable one within my shore..Though, the dealer who gave me the 'whaler' really assured me of it, and its been very wonderful since then, though still on the look for Behr or the alternative Japanese model for a keep as spare should the whaler fail.

I don't know a Japanese brand of thermostats but it is better than the Wahler you have. If you cannot find Behr, any other one is better than Wahler. This is what I was trying to convey. It is good as you have what is installed for the current time but to have faith in this shouldn't be. Everywhere sells Behr; for that's all they stock. I wonder why Nigerians are having a hard time finding one. The failure rate is just too high for those thermostat and MB stopped fitting their cars with those brands. Ask Kuntash where he got his. I believe he had remarks to the Wahler brands as well. Nevertheless, another thermostat of the same specification will do fine. It doesn't have to be Japanese but any European.

If finding a suitable thermostat is becoming difficult, getting in touch with car dealers in the Auto Section will not be a bad idea. It won't be a bad idea to get more than one.

au.hanson:

Kuntash has given me the c280 which i very much appreciated. However, i was banging hope on you(as you stated, cos i believe you) for the c180 that is specific to my model. There are some detail issues(what others would consider insignificant) i need to resolve using it, things that are normally overlooked, but i want everything almost perfect if possible.. when i finish solving these items i'll let you know. I don't know if i can still bang on you for the w202 c180 manual?

The C280 is the same manual as the C180 except for engine specification details, trims and various options. The differences are not much. The manuals were not in soft-copy but hard-copy. The technical details are very trivial and some found in the 280 manual will pass for the 180. The ones that do not apply will be obvious to you. The portion where it states "Technical" is where the differences are. I haven't seen a C180 before except on Nairaland. The C180 was for a limited market because I remembered in 1997, the Mercedes brochure that detailed the engineering of the C Class had the C200 as the lowest engine. This was the European marketing brochure with European specifications.

Ikenna351:

I plan to look for another Wahler themostart with 80+ degree, to keep as a spare.

I also want to use this opporunity to tell all Benz owners, check Peugeot shops as well when searching for Benz parts in Benz shops and you are not seeing them their. Because Peugeot and Benz use Bosch parts in all their cars. It may even be cheaper in Peugeot shops.

Ikenna.

Ikenna , mine reads 87 degrees for open temp, a wahler product too, it response and rises fast too but never exceeded nor even get to 100 degrees yet despite the hold up and heat conditions . Thanks for this info. From my observation, though i beg to differ, my car seems to perform best at that 87 degrees celcious

Trac:

I don't know a Japanese brand of thermostats but it is better than the Wahler you have. If you cannot find Behr, any other one is better than Wahler. This is what I was trying to convey. It is good as you have what is installed for the current time but to have faith in this shouldn't be. Everywhere sells Behr; for that's all they stock. I wonder why Nigerians are having a hard time finding one. The failure rate is just too high for those thermostat and MB stopped fitting their cars with those brands. Ask Kuntash where he got his. I believe he had remarks to the Wahler brands as well. Nevertheless, another thermostat of the same specification will do fine. It doesn't have to be Japanese but any European.

If finding a suitable thermostat is becoming difficult, getting in touch with car dealers in the Auto Section will not be a bad idea. It won't be a bad idea to get more than one.

Hello Trac, 'my people say a bird at hand is worth two in the bush'. My eyes fix on that temp gauge all the time i drive, one day i noticed my temp almost climb to a 100 degrees celcious through a slow and steady traffic, when i got home i try to observe what the problem could be only to discover that i have been driving with ac on without the two external fans spinning. i tried to check what the problem was but couldn't see anything wrong, so i decided to disconnect the fans, use my oem relay(i had a spare one in my boot that i bought to wire my Benz 190 compressor), traced the wire source to the fan and to the power supply; that same source carries my ac compressor to the switch. i had to rewire the fan with an oem relay in between it via the ac power source and connected the earth as well, so that once my ac switch is toggle on/off the 2 external fans comes up/stop immediately and vice versa...since then, i have not noticed such sudden rise in temperature anymore.

I ma still looking out for the Behr thermostat in particular since i wouldn't know of any of the Japanese ones, besides i dont want to take the risk of buying any inferior China fake product.I might as well still pick another wahler product too for a spare as it is very cheap over here while still hoping to see the Behr one day. I'll also check the auto car dealers section too for more understanding of other brand too. thanks

Trac:

The C280 is the same manual as the C180 except for engine specification details, trims and various options. The differences are not much. The manuals were not in soft-copy but hard-copy. The technical details are very trivial and some found in the 280 manual will pass for the 180. The ones that do not apply will be obvious to you. The portion where it states "Technical" is where the differences are. I haven't seen a C180 before except on Nairaland. The C180 was for a limited market because I remembered in 1997, the Mercedes brochure that detailed the engineering of the C Class had the C200 as the lowest engine. This was the European marketing brochure with European specifications.

Yes they are the same but differs with the technical specs, and i want to trash some technical insignificant issues that is very obvious, i dont want to assume and take chances..i should be more careful. Something tells me that you can still get it for me.Or, can you point me to where in Nairaland you heard of it? or better still, the link?

Ikenna351:
I also want to use this opporunity to tell all Benz owners, check Peugeot shops as well when searching for Benz parts in Benz shops and you are not seeing them their. Because Peugeot and Benz use Bosch parts in all their cars. It may even be cheaper in Peugeot shops.

Ikenna.

This is also an alternative. The thermostat can also be used. The Wahler for Mercedes Benz or the spec rating is not good. Other thermostats will work well. Ensure the correct reading. It it's present for sale, go for it. No 83degC or 85degC specification. It should be 87degC.

au.hanson:



Hello Trac, 'my people say a bird at hand is worth two in the bush'. My eyes fix on that temp gauge all the time i drive, one day i noticed my temp almost climb to a 100 degrees celcious through a slow and steady traffic, when i got home i try to observe what the problem could be only to discover that i have been driving with ac on without the two external fans spinning. i tried to check what the problem was but couldn't see anything wrong, so i decided to disconnect the fans, use my oem relay(i had a spare one in my boot that i bought to wire my Benz 190 compressor), traced the wire source to the fan and to the power supply; that same source carries my ac compressor to the switch. i had to rewire the fan with an oem relay in between it via the ac power source and connected the earth as well, so that once my ac switch is toggle on/off the 2 external fans comes up/stop immediately and vice versa...since then, i have not noticed such sudden rise in temperature anymore.

I ma still looking out for the Behr thermostat in particular since i wouldn't know of any of the Japanese ones, besides i dont want to take the risk of buying any inferior China fake product.I might as well still pick another wahler product too for a spare as it is very cheap over here while still hoping to see the Behr one day. I'll also check the auto car dealers section too for more understanding of other brand too. thanks

I hope you will also get my point-of-view of getting a dedicated mechanic for your vehicle. It's their full-time job. A good one will ensure your vehicle does not check-in in-between schedules.

What you have stated above is the proper operation for the vehicle. The operating temperature starts from 89degC (not an 87degC typo) to 101degC (for the four cylinders). The engine is just at its "warm" phase. Electrical fan kicks into stage-1 at 102degC and stage-2 takes over at 115degC and at 126degC, the air conditioner cuts off. At 130degC, the coolant will overheat (NOT the engine). At this point is where the trouble begins; heat related problems then overheating occurs. The car overheats according to design after 135degC; not from the cause of the engine but the coolant overheating. You can figure how the heat will quickly accumulate within a short period once the coolant has overheated. It is not uncommon to drive at 110degC. These are normal operating temperatures. There is no other road-going car that I know that operates as hot as a Benz. This is the four cylinder configuration.

From what you have stated, I assume you have three fans; two electrical and a mechanical viscous. The mechanical viscous kicks in at 102degC or when the two electrical fans have failed. Part of the purpose of the mechanical fan is to ensure duty when both fans have failed or other related emergencies. Both electrical fans should cut off right after the temperature falls right under 90degC.

It should be clear to you that MB engines are very hot engines and other vehicles don't run as hot. You don't play with the coolant, thermostat, water pump and its tensioner and the electrical settings and the grade of oil you put in there. The coolant it uses is the hybrid organic kind.

By now, you have an idea why I cautioned against Wahler. It isn't just the thermostat but the radiators too. The radiators don't hold well against the test of time compared to Behr. When the thermostat fails, you will not know. The gauge will read right; if care is not taken, engine disassembling repairs will be required for an overhaul.

What you have done is re-engineered your vehicle in a way unfit to the overall design. Your engine should not run cold under any circumstance. Kuntash did state at one point that some mechanic reconfigured his vehicle out of specifications. He straightened things and he hasn't complained of heat related issues under factory specs. Look for the post in reference or ask him. Use the proper oil (to which you have done), the right coolant application, stick to factory cooling specification and be relaxed in mind. The thermostat you have will still function for many months; for it is new. So, now worries in that "department." The vehicle should go a minimum of 15 months without a single repair while still maintaining dependability.

You won't find a Chinese Behr. It is made in Germany. As Ikenna referenced: source around the European part stores. You will find an 87degC thermostat; no doubt!. On another thought, a sales-person might be stocking thermostats in the Auto Section. You don't know who till you come across them. Kuntash bought his Behr in Nigeria. So, it isn't an impossibility. It shouldn't be pressing at the moment but you can look out for it. The thermostat currently installed will not fail anytime soon. Search at a convenient pace.

au.hanson:

Yes they are the same but differs with the technical specs, and i want to trash some technical insignificant issues that is very obvious, i dont want to assume and take chances..i should be more careful. Something tells me that you can still get it for me.Or, can you point me to where in Nairaland you heard of it? or better still, the link?

The technical information is not really much of a loss to you because you have acquainted yourself quite well and the information disclosed isn't that much; trivial. Some of the repetitions are on the gasoline door flap, door seal, engine oil cap and a few other places. You aren't missing much.

Trac:

What you have stated above is the proper operation for the vehicle. The operating temperature starts from 89degC (not an 87degC typo) to 101degC (for the four cylinders). The engine is just at its "warm" phase. Electrical fan kicks into stage-1 at 102degC and stage-2 takes over at 115degC and at 126degC, the air conditioner cuts off. At 130degC, the coolant will overheat (NOT the engine). At this point is where the trouble begins; heat related problems then overheating occurs. The car overheats according to design after 135degC; not from the cause of the engine but the coolant overheating. You can figure how the heat will quickly accumulate within a short period once the coolant has overheated. It is not uncommon to drive at 110degC. These are normal operating temperatures. There is no other road-going car that I know that operates as hot as a Benz. This is the four cylinder configuration.

From what you have stated, I assume you have three fans; two electrical and a mechanical viscous. The mechanical viscous kicks in at 102degC or when the two electrical fans have failed. Part of the purpose of the mechanical fan is to ensure duty when both fans have failed or other related emergencies. Both electrical fans should cut off right after the temperature falls right under 90degC.

It should be clear to you that MB engines are very hot engines and other vehicles don't run as hot. You don't play with the coolant, thermostat, water pump and its tensioner and the electrical settings and the grade of oil you put in there. The coolant it uses is the hybrid organic kind.

By now, you have an idea why I cautioned against Wahler. It isn't just the thermostat but the radiators too. The radiators don't hold well against the test of time compared to Behr. When the thermostat fails, you will not know. The gauge will read right; if care is not taken, engine disassembling repairs will be required for an overhaul.

What you have done is re-engineered your vehicle in a way unfit to the overall design. Your engine should not run cold under any circumstance. Kuntash did state at one point that some mechanic reconfigured his vehicle out of specifications. He straightened things and he hasn't complained of heat related issues under factory specs. Look for the post in reference or ask him. Use the proper oil (to which you have done), the right coolant application, stick to factory cooling specification and be relaxed in mind. The thermostat you have will still function for many months; for it is new. So, now worries in that "department." The vehicle should go a minimum of 15 months without a single repair while still maintaining dependability.

You won't find a Chinese Behr. It is made in Germany. As Ikenna referenced: source around the European part stores. You will find an 87degC thermostat; no doubt!. On another thought, a sales-person might be stocking thermostats in the Auto Section. You don't know who till you come across them. Kuntash bought his Behr in Nigeria. So, it isn't an impossibility. It shouldn't be pressing at the moment but you can look out for it. The thermostat currently installed will not fail anytime soon. Search at a convenient pace.



The technical information is not really much of a loss to you because you have acquainted yourself quite well and the information disclosed isn't that much; trivial. Some of the repetitions are on the gasoline door flap, door seal, engine oil cap and a few other places. You aren't missing much.

I actually bought this vehicle with this re engineering of the electrical fans/ac system, though, they never worked at the time of purchase; everything there was a mess; the fans were actually connected directly to the alternator to spin full time at cranking,i believe this was done by the first owners dedicated mechanic, because its their popular opinion here to cool the engine, an aspect i never liked at all.In fact, these are the reasons why i have been looking for a comprehensive manual to fully understand the architectural circuit of the wiring sequence of routing of this model so that i can fully organized things back properly.

Mechanics here will be laughing at me over such insignificant determination to reorganized things back to factory fittings, to them, 'it doesn't follow, here is not abroad. Mercedes Benz has a bad ac system and compressor, that could make you spend through your nose if you are to keep with them (http://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz/c-class/1994/reliability.html), that's why they do what they do'. I actually decline to all these hypothesis of theirs, though they're some element of truth as to the Benz compressor and maintenance cost of their ac system. I went ahead and overhaul this already faulty system of theirs and put mine in place with the way i understand electricals, because i don't know what to believe anymore than to play save. I remove their direct toggle on/off ac switching connection that was already faulty and then traced the power to the Mercedes Benz switching unit at the panel and connected it from there with my installed brand new Peugeot 504 compressor(504 compressor is known for their durability and ruggedness, that's why most vulcanisers here uses it for their business. Ikenna, your comment is welcome here) after having flushed out the old system thoroughly with Pag oil.It was from here that i had to replace one of the fans having assured my self from diagnose that it was bad(the mistake i did here was that i still use their old wires and relay, which i finally replaced as i described earlier. it 's from here that i connected the two fans along with the compressor via system of oem relays(from Nissan brand however) with the compressor to the factory fitted Mercedes Benz power source via the panel on the interim, pending when i shall have the full circuit diagram of this electrical fan system to aid me do the right factory fitting without messing up nor endanger something here

My engine doesn't run cold, if i decide not to use the ac, the two electrical fans wouldn't come up. In fact, the two electrical fans were not functioning until i reinstalled the ac system, and this ac system chilling is deadly, better off than that of my already envied Benz 190. You have explained the Mercedes Benz electrical fan system, but can you get me the circuit diagram or a vivid explanation of the wiring routing with this model? I will very much appreciate this gesture. thanks

Trac:

You won't find a Chinese Behr. It is made in Germany.

You never can tell what Nigerians courtesy of Chinese can fake

@Au Hanson, enjoying your exploits...but why did you have to flush your system did it come with an R 12? also on which side did you place your new compressor?

au.hanson:

I actually bought this vehicle with this re engineering of the electrical fans/ac system, though, they never worked at the time of purchase; everything there was a mess; the fans were actually connected directly to the alternator to spin full time at cranking,i believe this was done by the first owners dedicated mechanic, because its their popular opinion here to cool the engine, an aspect i never liked at all.In fact, these are the reasons why i have been looking for a comprehensive manual to fully understand the architectural circuit of the wiring sequence of routing of this model so that i can fully organized things back properly. Mechanics here will be laughing at me over such insignificant determination to reorganized things back to factory fittings, to them, 'it doesn't follow, here is not abroad, Mercedes Benz has a bad ac system and compressor, that could make you spend through your nose if you are to keep with them, that's why they do what they do'. I actually decline to all these hypothesis of theirs, though they're some element of truth as to the Benz compressor and maintenance cost of their ac system. I went ahead and overhaul this already faulty system of theirs and put mine in place with the way i understand electricals, because i don't know what to believe anymore than to play save. I remove their direct toggle on/off ac switching connection that was already faulty and then traced the power to the Mercedes Benz switching unit at the panel and connected it from there with my installed brand new Peugeot 504 compressor(504 compressor is known for their durability and ruggedness, that's why most vulcanisers here uses it for their business. Ikenna, your comment is welcome here) after having flushed out the old system thoroughly with gap oil.It was from here that i had to replace one of the fans having assured my self from diagnose that it was bad(the mistake i did here is that i still use their old wires and relay, which i finally replaced as i described earlier. it 's from here that i connected the two fans along with the compressor via system of oem relays(from nissan however) with the compressor to the factory fitted Mercedes Benz power source via the panel on the interim, pending when i shall have the full circuit diagram of this electrical fan system to aid me do the right factory fitting without messing up nor endanger something here

My engine doesn't run cold, if i decide not to use the ac, the two electrical fans wouldn't come up. In fact, the two electrical fans were not functioning until i reinstalled the ac system, and this ac system chilling is deadly, better off than that of my already envied Benz 190. You have explained the Mercedes Benz electrical fan system, but can you get me the circuit diagram or a vivid explanation of the wiring routing with this model? I will very much appreciate this gesture. thanks

I hope you know what you are doing for you aren't smarter than the engineers that took more than a decade to design the engine. The two electrical fans are not designed to come on at the conditions you are stating. You should be aware of the relationship between iron and aluminium when mated. The laws of physics will not omit your case.

What I explained to you is the factory cooling specification not the electrical fan system. I don't have the circuit diagram/routing plus I don't like electrical issues.

au.hanson:


connected it from there with my installed brand new Peugeot 504 compressor(504 compressor is known for their durability and ruggedness, that's why most vulcanisers here uses it for their business. Ikenna, your comment is welcome here)

Peugeot 504 & 505 use the same AC compressor. The brand name of the compressor is Sanden, originally made in Japan.

My 505 AC compressor failed late last year, shortly after the car AC system was flushed with an acid or whatever the clown called it. I went to Gudu market to purchase a used one and was told new one was available in abundance as well. I was shocked to hear that 504/505 Ac compressor was still available in new in Nigeria. They told me because they are been used to replace the "unreliable" Benz AC compressors. That all needed to be done is to swap in Benz compressor pulley on the Peugeot compressor and it's good to go. Even when I entered the first shop to price the new Peugeot compressor, the seller asked me which class & model year of Benz do I want to use the compressor for, until I told him I needed it for my 505. The seller said he couldn't believe there could still be 505 using AC, and that only Benz owners purchase the Peugeot compressors from them. He claimed that the demand has been on the high side, which is why the compressor is still available in new ones. Anyway, I bought the brand new one 25k from Apo. I posted the picture of the compressor in Peugeot thread. Find it below:

https://www.nairaland.com/1003701/peugeot-thread-peugeot-community/8


The failed one the car came with is Sanden, model SD-708. But new one I found in the market was the same Sanden, but model SD-508. Well, they stamped it made in Japan, just like the factory failed one. But you and I know that the new one didn't smell Japan shores, but China.

On the new compressor, it reads "Refrigerant: Use R12". And I recharged the system with R12 gas, which cost N500 a can (my 505 takes 4 cans = 2k). Some would wonder or argue why recharge with R12, when there is 134 which cost the same amount with R12 (N500 a can). But I wasn't ready to risk damaging the newly purchased compressor, when the instruction reads "use R12", because I didn't get that 25k from Mango tree. I know R12 system can be converted to 134a system. But am not interested. When I get a car with 134a system, I will treat it with 134a gas.

Ikenna.

smartchoice: @Au Hanson, enjoying your exploits...but why did you have to flush your system did it come with an R 12? also on which side did you place your new compressor?

I had to flush it before mounting the new compressor so that it will clean out all the dirts/dust that may have build up there over years of non usage and that such impurities wouldn't knocked the new installed compressor. Besides, i wouldn't have known the kind of refrigerant they have been using,rather would love to stick to Mercedes Benz recommended R-134 refrigerant to enhance a fresh new effective system.

I placed the compressor on the drivers side, the left side of the engine i mean to say, at the lower side of the pully under the steering oil pump, of course you have to uninstall the steering oil pump before before you can do it effectively and install it back after installing the compressor

please a pix would help looking forward to working on mine too. It presently has a leak.

au.hanson:


I had to flush it before mounting the new compressor so that it will clean out all the dirts/dust that may have build up there over years of non usage and that such impurities wouldn't knocked the new installed compressor. Besides, i wouldn't have known the kind of refrigerant they have been using,rather would love to stick to Mercedes Benz recommended R-134 refrigerant to enhance a fresh new effective system.

I placed the compressor on the right side of the engine, at lower side of the pully under the steering oil pump, of course you have to unistall the steering pump before before you can do it effectively and install it back after installing the compressor

Ik: am interested in changing my MB compressor to Peugeot but my system uses R134 freon gas, what would you suggest I do knowing that R134 can destroys seals on an R12 systems which the Sanden compressor carries? NOTE THIS ALSO AU HANSON

Ikenna351:

On the new compressor, it reads "Refrigerant: Use R12". And I recharged the system with R12 gas, which cost N500 a can (my 505 takes 4 cans = 2k). Some would wonder or argue why recharge with R12, when there is 134 which cost the same amount with R12 (N500 a can). But I wasn't ready to risk damaging the newly purchased compressor, when the instruction reads "use R12", because I didn't get that 25k from Mango tree. I know R12 system can be converted to 134a system. But am not interested. When I get a car with 134a system, I will treat it with 134a gas.

Ikenna.

smartchoice: Ik: am interested in changing my MB compressor to Peugeot but my system uses R134 freon gas, what would you suggest I do knowing that R134 can destroys seals on an R12 systems which the Sanden compressor carries? NOTE THIS ALSO AU HANSON

Note that original 134 gas cost more N500 a can. A can of original 134 cost 2k. And some newer cars AC systems cant stand the cheap/fake 134 gas. A neighbor of mine that drives Nissan Xterra lost his AC compressor last week after his AC guy recharged the SUV with the 134 of N500 a can. He drove in this evening and said he had to change both the compressor, condenser and drier today. He said he bought 2 cans of original 134 at 4k. So if your c-class is newer or if your AC system is not as rugged as mine, you better go buy the original one o!

As for if 134 gas will work in 504 compressor, I think it should/can. Cant guarantee you, though. I had recharged with 134a gas twice with the old compressor. But it leaked out within days. R12 gas is thicker/heavier, while 134 is lighter/thinner. So to use 134 in my AC system, I would need to convert it to 134, by changing all the pressure hoses and seals from R12 to 134 components. So I don't think the 504/505 compressor will reject the 134 gas, since the AC system of your c-class is 134. In my case, I knew the 134 gas would dry off or leak out since the entire system is R12. Aside that, I didn't want to risk it or carryout such experiment on the brand new compressor. 25k is not N25.

Ikenna

smartchoice: Ik: am interested in changing my MB compressor to Peugeot but my system uses R134 freon gas, what would you suggest I do knowing that R134 can destroys seals on an R12 systems which the Sanden compressor carries? NOTE THIS ALSO AU HANSON

Smart guy,The R-134 refrigerant is the Mercedes Benz recommended refrigerant, nothing wrong about that. Mercedes Benz AC components were tailored to work well with it , but beware of fake ones in our market,trust our guys in collab. with Chinese fakers.Peugeot compressor shouldn't be an issue here.

All the compressor does is to put the refrigerant under pressure(you know the laws of gas when under pressure molecules start bombarding and becomes very hot) and send it to the condensing coils(condenser) at the front of your radiator or there about. The condenser then expells the heat that the refrigerant picks in the evaporator to the air flowing across it(that's why those two external fans are ideal for the ac unit of your Benz). When this heat are completely expelled by the condensing coils(the condenser) this will change the gas back to liquid, and gives up a bundle of heat called,the latent heat of vapourisation, this liquid then passes through the expansion valve to the evapourator, this is the coil inside your car. You know when gas loses pressure it becomes liquid(our secondary school physics).The liquid portion of the refrigerant absorbs the heat from the air across the coil and evaporates, it is from here that the car fan(blower, the one inside or under your dashboard, all of them resides here) circulates air across the evaporator into your ac vents and into your car, where you felt the comfort chilling of the ac

Where am i going? the dealers will tell you the 504 compressor that fit into your Benz bearing in mind, your Benz system of pulleys and and other component customised for R-134a refrigerant

If i were you , i wouldn't touch the compressor if it is still ok. In the ethics of my profession, courtesy demands that you do not disturb a working system unless it is malfunctioning, then can you explore it to the fullest. I will rather deal with the issue of the leakage of the coolant/refrigerant, because if the refrigerant leaks that means there's nothing to carry away the heat from the explanation above. If it is very serious, your system may have no pressure at all in it. Your hoses could expired and so on, they may have not use a tapelike( may not know the right name here, one white tapelike material that is sold N100.00 only to run on the threads before they fit the pipes to the compressor and the drier to prevent leaks etc,

It is easy to look for leaks, just look at the hoes and pipes and the connected points to and from the drier, the compressor etc for oily substance, and that's it. you may now need to loosen the systems, losing your refrigerant and drier to replace the leaking part- this is the difficult part

Deal with this first of all your compressor may still be ok.

Caution, If you haven't use the system for a very long time , after fixing this leaks make sure you flush the system with Pag oil and replace the drier to save your compressor from knocking . The Drier(receiver) is the components that acts as a filter for the refrigerant , its removes moisture and other contaminated components from the refrigerant before it get back to the compressor- you can now see the obvious why it should be changed and also why the system should be flushed in the first place with the right oil

Trac:

I hope you know what you are doing for you aren't smarter than the engineers that took more than a decade to design the engine. The two electrical fans are not designed to come on at the conditions you are stating. You should be aware of the relationship between iron and aluminium when mated. The laws of physics will not omit your case.
electrical issues.

In absence of the engineers guide on their system design , life must still continue with the laws of the science of Physics and electricity.

My Benz 190 came with no ac system and external fans, bought it almost like a scrab, i built a functional ac system for it and uses it full time for 6 years now because i don't like dust, only had to refill my gas 3years ago

Trac:

What I explained to you is the factory cooling specification not the electrical fan system. I don't have the circuit diagram/routing plus I don't like electrical issues.

We are deliberating the same thing here. I never touched the factory cooling system that i met on ground, but rather the messed up ac system with its cooling units. I am still looking forward to where i'll get the factory cooling design specification for this model, so to set things perfect

My ac compressor should be fine got a cut hose (due to some unintended contacts) which the techie replaced but the gas leaked out after 2weeks. am going to first of all check for leaks as soon as I have time then.....

au.hanson:


Smart guy,The R-134 refrigerant is the Mercedes Benz recommended refrigerant, nothing wrong about that. Mercedes Benz AC components were customized to work well with it , but beware of fake ones in our market,trust our guys in collab. with Chinese fakers.Peugeot compressor shouldn't be an issue here.



Where am i going? the dealers will tell you the 504 compressor that fit into your Benz bearing in mind, your Benz system of pulleys and and other component customised for R-134a refrigerant

Deal with this first of all your compressor may still be ok.

Caution, If you haven't use the system for a very long time , after fixing this leaks make sure you flush the system with Pag oil and replace the drier to save your compressor from knocking . The Drier(receiver) is the components that acts as a filter for the refrigerant , its removes moisture and other contaminated components from the refrigerant before it get back to the compressor- you can now see the obvious why it should be changed and also why the system should be flushed in the first place with the right oil

smartchoice: please a pix would help looking forward to working on mine too. It presently has a leak.

I only took few pix then, but they refuse loading.Let me try it again
There it goes:
1. In the first pix is the previous compressor under the steering pump
2. The second pix is the newly installed compressor under the steering pump. It looks dirty because i had to deal with an issue of expired steering oil hose spotted at the process of this installation, so the oils spills over there
3. Pictures 3 & 4, installing back the steering oil pump after i would have finished with the compressor installation .I also had an expired hose that would have caused serious leakage if i didn't replace it at this point. This also called for the services of a brass welder , that is why i said that this is the difficult part, fixing leaks. After all said and done , the system works perfectly well better off than my 190 , i guess Cclass has a better evaporator and blowers. My 190 didn't come with any so i bought one from the aftermarket for that ac unit

good one just wanted to be sure did put a peugeot cp on my w124 230e but the techie chose to put it onthe right hand side....thanks but like oliver twist I'll like to know the type of Peugeot compressor you used am sure your cp should work mine

au.hanson:


In absence of the engineers guide on their system design , life must still continue with the laws of the science of Physics and electricity.

My Benz 190 came with no ac system and external fans, bought it almost like a scrab, i built a functional ac system for it and uses it full time for 6 years now because i don't like dust, only had to refill my gas 3years ago

MB will not release their proprietary information to the public. The basic circuitry will be disclosed but not the design principles. This is their intellectual property. The same goes for all manufacturers.

When I stated the laws of physics, I truly meant what I said. That's why I made reference to iron and aluminium.

au.hanson:

We are deliberating the same thing here. I never touched the factory cooling system that i met on ground, but rather the messed up ac system with its cooling units. I am still looking forward to where i'll get the factory cooling design specification for this model, so to set things perfect

You have altered the cooling. Iron and aluminium have different co-efficient of expansion. The cooling was designed that way so that you don't destroy your engine. You only have very little of a clearance and if you warp so bad, you'll need to get another head. As I stated, you are not smarter than the engineers that took more than a decade to design that engine. If your approach was best, they would have done so; but it isn't. Altering the system to cause the fan to come on sooner than designed is change in factory specification to the cooling. A lot in the engine depends on this configuration to work as intended.

This is why I said the laws of physics will not exclude you (iron and aluminium). I believe you are running an MB square engine.

Anyway, if you know what you are doing; then you know what's best for you.

smartchoice: good one just wanted to be sure did put a peugeot cp on my w124 230e but the techie chose to put it onthe right hand side....thanks but like oliver twist I'll like to know the type of Peugeot compressor you used am sure your cp should work mine

Yeah! i use Sanden model, made in Japan written on the body(It may have even come from China, but the good news is that it is good),cant really remember the model, need to search for the receipt. I doubt if i can find it.. but the pulley bracket fit into that of benz very well.I'll try checking the body if i can find the name. the most important thing is the pulley thread at the head. although you can always buy another head that fit your pulley system to it , but that would mean constructing the head to the body. I have done that before on an older model for a friend who bought the one meant for 504/505 pulley-it was a heck of task, dnt think i should like to do it again.

DETAILED, THANKS AU.HANSON. IF YOU CAN STILL GET THE NAME/SPECIFIC PEUGEOT COMPRESSOR USED I'D APPREC8 IT.

smartchoice: DETAILED, THANKS AU.HANSON. IF YOU CAN STILL GET THE NAME/SPECIFIC PEUGEOT COMPRESSOR USED I'D APPREC8 IT.

Oh sorry! just saw this now, i was engaged in some systems development projects. Ok, ill try and get it for you then.

Trac:

MB will not release their proprietary information to the public. The basic circuitry will be disclosed but not the design principles. This is their intellectual property. The same goes for all manufacturers.

If i can get this basic circuitry, i can make do with it..I think i know what to do, If i can get a direct Benz c180 tokumbo that comes with manual tranny, and has not been tampered with, i'll get all the information i need from there. Cheers

Trac:

You have altered the cooling. Iron and aluminium have different co-efficient of expansion. The cooling was designed that way so that you don't destroy your engine. You only have very little of a clearance and if you warp so bad, you'll need to get another head. As I stated, you are not smarter than the engineers that took more than a decade to design that engine. If your approach was best, they would have done so; but it isn't. Altering the system to cause the fan to come on sooner than designed is change in factory specification to the cooling. A lot in the engine depends on this configuration to work as intended.

This is why I said the laws of physics will not exclude you (iron and aluminium). I believe you are running an MB square engine.

Anyway, if you know what you are doing; then you know what's best for you.

On the contrary, the cooling still remains where it is with the viscous fan left at the factory settings(untampered). You and I knows that this car(Benz C180) does well with the viscous fan alone when your thermostat is still in order. I have test driven this car under the most stringent condition with the viscous fan alone and the system still worked perfectly ok.(Benz 190 wouldn't stand it).Some of these cars never came with the 2 external fans(electrical fans). What happened then when my fan stopped working,was that there was a partial contact between the connecting wires that connected the electrical fans to the relays(since i was using old wires),it wasn't the factory behavior as you stated( I went back to it, flips the wires at the front with my hands, they stop working, flip again they started working; that confirms that); Perhaps, when you hit gallops, with the nature of our road, it will lose contact and so on.

The rationale behind this is that, the ac unit adds extra load on the system, and the condensing coil needs a kind of air especially in tropical zone like ours to help cool the compressed air that the ac compressor sends to these condensing coils.The logic here is that, these external fans help the condensing coils to effectively cool these bundle of hot air/gas back to liquid( latent heat of vaporisation) before the air get back to the evaporator through the expansion valve and so on and so forth, this i have explained earlier.

So in my case, this fan is only provision for the ac units/load, has nothing to do with factory alteration of the cooling system( "Iron and aluminium differences in co-efficient of expansion" doesn't warrant here). The laws of Physics and electricity are well obeyed in this context.

When the ac is done at the desired temperature, the ac thermostat cut off the power from the ac/the external fans since they come from the same power source from the panel, so 'warping so hard such that you might get another head' can't happen here.

I don't know if you get the logic?

Now lets face fact, Mercedes Benz engineers didn't come to Africa when they were designing their cars for decades, the obvious happens here on a daily basis: I have seen a lot of toks(not even the modified ones) opened bonnet on our roads because of overheat..that is why despite their cooling systems design, single cells radiator has to change to double cells/or external fans provisioned in front to cope with this. No one would tell you not to change your radiator from single to double cells or otherwise, if you wouldn't want to lose your top Cylinder Gasket.

I like being practical,everything in life isn't just black and white, there are always some gray areas:

1. Mercedes Benz ac Compressors are a heck of trouble over here, that's why many including myself changed to Peugeot Compressors,because i don't have that kind of money to be spending on it.

2. Their cars that came with single cell radiator suffered so much overheat over here, that's why you see people change to double cell radiator/provisioning external fans to it. I change my Benz 190 from single cell radiator to double after having lose my top.

3. I added external fan to her(Benz 190) ac unit because of same overheat over here after having lose my top for the second time. I don't have to wait for Mercedes Benz engineers to come to Africa to see the reality on ground before doing this, not after all these experiences.

And many more...

au.hanson:


If i can get this basic circuitry, i can make do with it..I think i know what to do, If i can get a direct Benz c180 tokumbo that comes with manual tranny, and has not been tampered with, i'll get all the information i need from there. Cheers

On the contrary, the cooling still remains where it is with the viscous fan left at the factory settings(untampered). You and I knows that this car(Benz C180) does well with the viscous fan alone when your thermostat is still in order. I have test driven this car under the most stringent condition with the viscous fan alone and the system still worked perfectly ok.(Benz 190 wouldn't stand it).Some of these cars never came with the 2 external fans(electrical fans). What happened then when my fan stopped working,was that there was a partial contact between the connecting wires that connected the electrical fans to the relays(since i was using old wires),it wasn't the factory behavior as you stated( I went back to it, flips the wires at the front with my hands, they stop working, flip again they started working; that confirms that); Perhaps, when you hit gallops, with the nature of our road, it will lose contact and so on.

The rationale behind this is that, the ac unit adds extra load on the system, and the condensing coil needs a kind of air especially in tropical zone like ours to help cool the compressed air that the ac compressor sends to these condensing coils.The logic here is that, these external fans help the condensing coils to effectively cool these bundle of hot air/gas back to liquid( latent heat of vaporisation) before the air get back to the evaporator through the expansion valve and so on and so forth, this i have explained earlier.

So in my case, this fan is only provision for the ac units/load, has nothing to do with factory alteration of the cooling system( "Iron and aluminium differences in co-efficient of expansion" doesn't warrant here). The laws of Physics and electricity are well obeyed in this context.

When the ac is done at the desired temperature, the ac thermostat cut off the power from the ac/the external fans since they come from the same power source from the panel, so 'warping so hard such that you might get another head' can't happen here.

I don't know if you get the logic?

Now lets face fact, Mercedes Benz engineers didn't come to Africa when they were designing their cars for decades, the obvious happens here on a daily basis: I have seen a lot of toks(not even the modified ones) opened bonnet on our roads because of overheat..that is why despite their cooling systems design, single cells radiator has to change to double cells/or external fans provisioned in front to cope with this. No one would tell you not to change your radiator from single to double cells or otherwise, if you wouldn't want to lose your top Cylinder Gasket.

I like being practical,everything in life isn't just black and white, there are always some gray areas:

1. Mercedes Benz ac Compressors are a heck of trouble over here, that's why many including myself changed to Peugeot Compressors,because i don't have that kind of money to be spending on it.

2. Their cars that came with single cell radiator suffered so much overheat over here, that's why you see people change to double cell radiator/provisioning external fans to it. I change my Benz 190 from single cell radiator to double after having lose my top.

3. I added external fan to her(Benz 190) ac unit because of same overheat over here after having lose my top for the second time. I don't have to wait for Mercedes Benz engineers to come to Africa to see the reality on ground before doing this, not after all these experiences.

And many more...

Hanson,

I shouldn't be explaining principles to you but to relate to you in like-understanding. From what Nigerians have explained to me, I believe and assume that you have background in processes. In other words, manufacturing processes.

In all that I have scripted, if you were sensitive, you would have picked the clue (if you thought deeper). Iron and aluminium do not expand equally. They don't dissipate the heat equally. The fan setup is to control preheating for even heat transfer and expansion. The upper and lower engine is held together by aerospace-grade elastic bolts. The viscous fan comes on at extreme temperature and in my personal experience, I won't depend on it. I have had a spark plug break at high speed because of the high heat when the safety fuse of the electrical fans went out. With your setup, you will damage the head because of uncontrolled heat transfer. Scientific laws will not change. There are also many issues you will face but that is completely irrelevant. If it was not fitted with an air-conditioner, there are variables to consider but you cannot usurp the heating/cooling specification for the engine.

There are many parts of the United States hotter than Nigeria. Yet these cars operate at factory and Nigerians buy them used.

The statement you made about the Germans not visiting Nigeria is an apology, frankly. Before a car is released to production, it is taken to one of the hottest places on earth and tested for month and data is collected. The same applies to the coldest regions (where it is nothing but ice) and it spends months there in testing. You are not smarter than the engineers; lest you should be working there. The car you bought has a Benz logo on it. In other words, it passed the minimum standard Mercedes guaranteed for that model. You were sold a Mercedes Benz.

comments later

kk

scarce except for c280 n other c variants. then which c class w202/203?

chibabe3: i just bought a C180 and the fuel consumption is superb compared with my 190E. please can somone send the English manual to okolongozi158@yahoo.com, thanks.
It works very fine but sometimes the air will stop coming out through the grill directly facing the driver on the dashboard. Rather it will come out through windscreen grill. I have also noticed that the button that changes where the air comes out from does not work properly.

kk

That is a w202

chibabe3: It is a 1999 elegance model.