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Is Feminism Really Un-african? - Culture - Nairaland

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Is Feminism 'Un-African'? / I Hate What Feminism Has Become / How Successful Has Feminism In Africa And In Nigeria Been? (2) (3) (4)

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Is Feminism Really Un-african? by Nobody: 2:12pm On Oct 31, 2012
As my feminist consciousness has developed the more I’ve become aware, both explicitly and implicitly, that there is a popular notion that feminism is un-African. Every time I write a post about feminism in an African context, I get at least one response about how feminism is this flawed, white supremacist ideology.
The internet is rife with articles about this so I’m not going to pull up too many examples. Most argue along the lines that feminism is “diabolically anti-African anti-human neologism emerging out of the Eurocentric reactionary women’s movement in the 50’s”

What’s problematic about these arguments is not that people have a different opinion, as is their right, but that these critics don’t even bother to understand what African feminism is about before attacking it.

Yes, there is global feminist consensus, but it is also important for African feminists to shape our own ideological home for African feminism through which we can view African women’s issues. In fact, this is very much an ongoing process and like all political work, it is nuanced. To very briefly summarize, some African feminists thinkers and activists are liberal, post-modern, eco, socialist feminists etc and some adopt a more radical approach to challenge the legitimacy of patriarchy. African feminists are concerned with the domestic imbalance and gender roles, but also about so called ‘bread and butter’ issues like poverty reduction, violence prevention and health and reproductive rights which affects African women worse than men. African feminism is just as much about the inter-connectedness of slavery, colonialism, racism and so on and how these historic realities have caused women’s oppression.

Yes, the term ‘feminism’ does not have African roots, rather, it came to the continent largely due to the African-American feminist movement. However, the concept itself is not one that western feminists exported to African women. Africa has some of the oldest civilizations and so it also has some of the oldest patriarchies. And African women have always found ways of resisting patriarchy through manipulating popular ideas of motherhood, or religion, or labour.
The argument that feminism is un-African is also flawed in its romantic view of pre-colonial Africa. Even if African societies were egalitarian, which wasn’t always the case at all, most African societies, have now imported a largely western gender order, one that is patriarchal.

It’s weird that an African woman can debate Greek democracy or Freudian psychoanalysis or US-style capitalism and be qualified as politically aware, conscious, intelligent, not western. But as soon as women’s issues are mentioned someone will be quick to accuse you of neglecting African traditions and being brainwashed by western values. The reality is African politics is not gender neutral and pretending that it is despite all the suffering that gender inequality causes is much more ‘un-African’ than what any one person chooses to affiliate with

http://www.msafropolitan.com/2011/07/is-feminism-really-un-african.html
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by Nobody: 2:17pm On Oct 31, 2012
Interesting write-up - however, will the REAL African feminists stand up, and become revolutionaries? If you pride yourself in being a feminist, it shouldn't just be about "equality" with men - women also need to be at the forefront of the struggle to liberate Africa/Africans/African-minds from the perpetual servitude of neo-colonialists and their corrupt stooges holding the African continent down...

Women need to put their money where their mouth is and join the revolution!
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by Egbagirl(f): 2:29pm On Oct 31, 2012
I need my computer for but um yea african feminism does exist but you rarely hear about it. Its "anti-african" cause it was "born" out of eestern feminism but has been adapted in a diff form. Anyway I'm a feminist. (Mind you there are diff types of feminism)
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by Nobody: 2:43pm On Oct 31, 2012
This topic isn't romantic now, shymmex. Why is it in romance section?

Anyway, your topic;

Feminism is basically a belief in the need to secure rights and opportunities for women equal to those of men, or a commitment to securing these rights. It can also mean a movement for women's rights and seeing that women's rights are equal to those of men.

Yes it is un-African.

Historcally, women have been considered to be inferior to men in Africa, seen as creatures that exist majorly to take care of the home front and to submit to whatever man she marries in order to be a good wife. There is no equality for women and men in majority of the African cultures.

Women are regarded as the weaker vessels that should be subjected/subjugated to whatever a man thinks is best for her. The man could be her father or husband, this man makes the final decision on how she lives her life.

There are many ways women suffer inequality in Africa, I don't understand why you'd still ask if feminism is un-African.

And, you mentioned that feminists are also involved in issues like poverty reduction, violence prevention and health and reproductive rights which affects African women worse than men, but then you added that these are bread and butter issues, meaning that you probably acknowledge that these issues are only secondary to the primary/major aim of feminism which is the establishment of a system where men and women have equal rights.

The fact that feminism also deals with these subsidiary matters that have nothing to do with ensuring equality does not change the fact that it is un-African.
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by Nobody: 2:46pm On Oct 31, 2012
fellis:
This topic isn't romantic now, shymmex. Why is it in romance section?

My bad, I'll tell the OP to move it to the culture section.

I thought it would be better to put it in the romance section, just to get more female eggheads involved in the conversation.
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by LaParisienne(f): 2:47pm On Oct 31, 2012
What Revolution are you refering to if I may ask? And where exactly is ''the struggle to liberate Africa/Africans/African-minds from the perpetual servitude of neo-colonialists and their corrupt stooges holding the African continent down'' going on? I don't get it.

I'm for equal rights and all, but I'm not a feminazist. I know that each gender has its own role to play. Men and women are built differently. We aren't the same and we'll never be, no matter what the feminazists preach.

1 Like

Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by Nobody: 2:51pm On Oct 31, 2012
Egba girl: I need my computer for but um yea african feminism does exist but you rarely hear about it. Its "anti-african" cause it was "born" out of eestern feminism but has been adapted in a diff form. Anyway I'm a feminist. (Mind you there are diff types of feminism)

Can you explain the different types of feminism and the roles they play in the society?

Personally, I'll like feminist ideas/types which have African roots like: the Aba women, Efunroye Tinubu, Mrs. Ransome Kuti, Margaret Ekpo, Queen Nzingha, Nefertiti, Dahomey female warriors etc.. Women who fought against injustice in the society(revolutionary women), not just Eurocentric feminist ideas about just the male status quo - that ideology is counterproductive and selfish IMO.
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by Egbagirl(f): 2:53pm On Oct 31, 2012
La Parisienne: What Revolution are you refering to if I may ask? And where exactly is ''the struggle to liberate Africa/Africans/African-minds from the perpetual servitude of neo-colonialists and their corrupt stooges holding the African continent down'' going on? I don't get it.

I'm for equal rights and all, but I'm not a feminazist. I know that each gender has its own role to play. Men and women are built differently. We aren't the same and we'll never be, no matter what the feminazists preach.

you can be a standpoint feminist (which is what I think you are anyway) because they do not disagree that men and women are fundamentally different. They only want women to be included and considered when decisions are made etc.
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by Nobody: 2:53pm On Oct 31, 2012
La Parisienne: What Revolution are you refering to if I may ask? And where exactly is ''the struggle to liberate Africa/Africans/African-minds from the perpetual servitude of neo-colonialists and their corrupt stooges holding the African continent down'' going on? I don't get it.

I'm for equal rights and all, but I'm not a feminazist. I know that each gender has its own role to play. Men and women are built differently. We aren't the same and we'll never be, no matter what the feminazists preach.

Don't you think Nigeria needs a revolution? Nigeria needs a top-down change - to change the status quo, and save the future of our children...
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by LaParisienne(f): 2:56pm On Oct 31, 2012
fellis: This topic isn't romantic now, shymmex. Why is it in romance section?

Anyway, your topic;

Feminism is basically a belief in the need to secure rights and opportunities for women equal to those of men, or a commitment to securing these rights. It can also mean a movement for women's rights and seeing that women's rights are equal to those of men.

Yes it is un-African.

Historcally, women have been considered to be inferior to men in Africa, seen as creatures that exist majorly to take care of the home front and to submit to whatever man she marries in order to be a good wife. There is no equality for women and men in majority of the African cultures.

Women are regarded as the weaker vessels that should be subjected/subjugated to whatever a man thinks is best for her. The man could be her father or husband, this man makes the final decision on how she lives her life.

There are many ways women suffer inequality in Africa, I don't understand why you'd still ask if feminism is un-African.

And, you mentioned that feminists are also involved in issues like poverty reduction, violence prevention and health and reproductive rights which affects African women worse than men, but then you added that these are bread and butter issues, meaning that you probably acknowledge that these issues are only secondary to the primary/major aim of feminism which is the establishment of a system where men and women have equal rights.

The fact that feminism also deals with these subsidiary matters that have nothing to do with ensuring equality does not change the fact that it is un-African.

So really are you for it or against it?

Yeah feminisim is un-African. But we all know that Africa is lacking behind the rest of the world in a lot ways. So ideally, we've seen how well the African mentality works in this 21st century. Excuse my sarcasm please!
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by Nobody: 2:59pm On Oct 31, 2012
La Parisienne:
I'm for equal rights and all, but I'm not a feminazist. I know that each gender has its own role to play. Men and women are built differently. We aren't the same and we'll never be, no matter what the feminazists preach.

Lo @ feminazists

Please I would like to know what you think the roles of men and women in the society are and why you think they should play those roles. Thanks!!!
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by Egbagirl(f): 3:02pm On Oct 31, 2012
I got class in a min but we need to move away from the stereotypical idea of feminism that it's all about equality with men. Truth is feminism has a negative connotation mainly because most people dont understand what it's about. I was like that initially but then I came to the realization that all I want is to be treated like a human and not looked down upon by men because I was a woman or not ignored in the decision-making process because I was a woman. All I ask is that when I apply for a job, don't pay me less than my male colleague who is doing the same thing as I am simply because I am a woman. Now, the closest I would be is a standpoint feminist.



There's also Feminist Empiricsm who believe that men and women are the same and women should be allowed to do what men do. No difference, no discrimination, none of that.

Then there's the post-modern feminist who are all about the ideas and they are concerned with power relations and power systems between men and women. They are all about the societal structures rather than the different gender. If that makes sense.

Now there are still other types of feminist. Black feminism, African feminism, White feminism. Infact they are plentiful. lol. But um what I have here is a brief summary of the ones that I can recollect at this point. But um try googling types of feminism.

P.S: If I messed up my summaries, kindly let me know. Oh and keep in mind that it depends on what lens you look at these various types of feminism: anthropological, sociological, political, etc.
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by LaParisienne(f): 3:07pm On Oct 31, 2012
shymexx:
Don't you think Nigeria needs a revolution? Nigeria needs a top-down change - to change the status quo, and save the future of our children...

I think Nigeria needs a Revolution like the French had in the 18th century. I also think that it aint gonna happen anytime soon.

So back to your logic. You think Nigeria needs a Revolution. But you think that women should be at the fore front of the said Revolution simply because feminists have been advocating for equal rights and justice. Let me play the Devil's advocate here a bit. If women are asking(key word being asking, not that its considered or granted) for the opportunity to enjoy the same rights that men have been enjoying since the begining of the world, why then should women and not men be at the fore front of this so called Revolution? Simply because they are asking for equal rights? Oh dear!!1
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by LaParisienne(f): 3:09pm On Oct 31, 2012
Egba girl:
you can be a standpoint feminist (which is what I think you are anyway) because they do not disagree that men and women are fundamentally different. They only want women to be included and considered when decisions are made etc.

You pretty much descrbied my stand on this issue.
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by Nobody: 3:09pm On Oct 31, 2012
La Parisienne:

So really are you for it or against it?

Yeah feminisim is un-African. But we all know that Africa is lacking behind the rest of the world in a lot ways. So ideally, we've seen how well the African mentality works in this 21st century. Excuse my sarcasm please!

bolded,
There are different ways in which the 'African mentality' actually helps and doesn't draw us back. The fact that we are behind developed countries does not mean all our values and customs are useless and retrogressive.
What we need to do is to enforce the tenets which have helped us, (such as teaching children the importance of respecting adults) and to discard the ones that are holding us back, (like paying bride price).

As to whetheror not I agree with it; I don't believe that all women and all men deserve equal rights. Some men should have more rights than women and some women should have more rights than men.
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by Egbagirl(f): 3:09pm On Oct 31, 2012
shymexx:

Can you explain the different types of feminism and the roles they play in the society?

Personally, I'll like feminist ideas/types which have African roots like: the Aba women, Efunroye Tinubu, Mrs. Ransome Kuti, Margaret Ekpo, Queen Nzingha, Nefertiti, Dahomey female warriors etc.. Women who fought against injustice in the society(revolutionary women), not just Eurocentric feminist ideas about just the male status quo - that ideology is counterproductive and selfish IMO.

See that's the kind of feminist I am. I dont believe in inequality because I am a woman. Why should you treat me unfairly based on my sex? Women's voices need to be heard. Their work needs to be acknowledged and they should be left in the dark because they dont count or put on a different level because they are women. They are human beings too. Respect me and treat me like you would any other person and I will do the same. Shikena. Especially in this 21st century with education and all. You cant say that men and women should attend school, learn the same thing and then one sex will be paid higher than the other. Are women paying less tuition than the men? Such injustices need to be addressed.

Now in some African countries, politics is the main thing here. Especially in war torn places, women are completely ignored except for places like Liberia, and maybe Rwanda (They about half the parliament or whatever it is called made of women. Impressive!). But my argument is that law makers need to take into consideration how the political, economic and social structures negatively affect women. Maybe we need more women in politics which is what most people (women) are advocating for. Women in politics is another issue entirely.

Im off to class mehn! lol. will be back.
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by Egbagirl(f): 3:11pm On Oct 31, 2012
La Parisienne:

You pretty much descrbied my stand on this issue.

Right which is what stndpoint feminists want. I think you should embrace feminism (the type that you are) and educate others on what feminism is and the different types. Let's try and do away with the negative connotation attached to it. Women have been trampled upon too much and seen as 2nd class citizens.
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by Nobody: 3:19pm On Oct 31, 2012
Egba girl: I got class in a min but we need to move away from the stereotypical idea of feminism that it's all about equality with men. Truth is feminism has a negative connotation mainly because most people dont understand what it's about. I was like that initially but then I came to the realization that all I want is to be treated like a human and not looked down upon by men because I was a woman or not ignored in the decision-making process because I was a woman. All I ask is that when I apply for a job, don't pay me less than my male colleague who is doing the same thing as I am simply because I am a woman. Now, the closest I would be is a standpoint feminist.



There's also Feminist Empiricsm [/b]who believe that men and women are the same and women should be allowed to do what men do. No difference, no discrimination, none of that.

Then there's the[b] post-modern feminist
who are all about the ideas and they are concerned with power relations and power systems between men and women. They are all about the societal structures rather than the different gender. If that makes sense.

Now there are still other types of feminist. Black feminism, African feminism, White feminism. Infact they are plentiful. lol. But um what I have here is a brief summary of the ones that I can recollect at this point. But um try googling types of feminism.

P.S: If I messed up my summaries, kindly let me know. Oh and keep in mind that it depends on what lens you look at these various types of feminism: anthropological, sociological, political, etc.

All these different types of feminism do not all mean the same thing according to you, so how are they all feminists movements and how do they all fight for the same thing (feminism) when they have different definitions?

Please I would like to know your definition of feminism, what feminism on its own means, not empirical or African or standpoint feminism.
Just feminism alone.
What does it mean to you?
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by LaParisienne(f): 3:26pm On Oct 31, 2012
fellis:

Lo @ feminazists
Please I would like to know what you think the roles of men and women in the society are and why you think they should play those roles. Thanks!!!

Men are physically stronger than women, so its common sense that they'll do the most physically demanding jobs on earth. Men are also emotionally stronger, they handle heartbreaks, truama and tough situations better that women do. By defualt, this puts them as the head of the family. Men are most likely to earn more(there are some exceptions), and this makes them the bread winner of the family, with the wife helping out too.

Women are designed to be mothers and homemakers. That doesn't mean they should sit their lazy azzes at home without working. They have to work to support themselves mostly, and their husbands efforts. Women sholud do most of the house chores and cooking, with men helping out significantly etc.

Look, I know my husband is the head of the family and I'll never contest that. By being submissive and firm, I stand to gain a lot more. He's just the ceremonial head of the family. Subliminally, I'm the one runnig the show because he trusts me completely, he knows I respect him and that I have his best interest in mind. It's not rocket science really.

1 Like

Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by LaParisienne(f): 3:31pm On Oct 31, 2012
Egba girl:

Right which is what stndpoint feminists want. I think you should embrace feminism (the type that you are) and educate others on what feminism is and the different types. Let's try and do away with the negative connotation attached to it. Women have been trampled upon too much and seen as 2nd class citizens.

I know my rights and I don't take bullcrap from anybody. I also try to educate other women to stand up for themselves and reject abuse(physical or emotional).

What I don't do is walk around with a chip on my shoulder, feeling that being a woman is the next big thing.

Men and women are different, there's nothing we can do about that.

1 Like

Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by Nobody: 4:10pm On Oct 31, 2012
La Parisienne:

Men are physically stronger than women, so its common sense that they'll do the most physically demanding jobs on earth.

True. But machines have taken over a lot of these 'physically demanding' jobs.

Men are also emotionally stronger, they handle heartbreaks, truama and tough situations better that women do.

Lol,not all men are emotionally stronger and not all men handle heartbreaks and tough situations better than women.
Infact you need to understand what the word 'emotion' connotes before you decide whether or not men handle them better than women.
The word 'Emotion' means a strong feeling about something/some matter.
If we look at it in this sense, men react more emotionally than women in certain situations. A woman can react more emotionally than a man when it comes to handling the death of a loved one, but a man would react more emotionally than a woman when it comes to issues such as dealing with threats to his manhood.
Another example; there have been news about how men stabbed other men (with knives), because they supported opposing football teams and those opposing teams won. There has never been any news of a woman reacting in such an emotional manner because of something as simple as a football match.
Men also tend to turn to alcohol when it comes to handling trauma (something which women are not known to do) and this, in a way, proves that they cannot handle the reality of their situations and thus they turn to alcohol to forget. How can you then conclude that all men handle trauma better than women when you know that men do this?
Anyway my point is, men react more emotionally than women when it comes to certain issues and women react more emotionally than men in other issues.
You have to provide evidence to support your claim that men are more, overall, emotionally stronger than women before you make such a declaration.
It has also been proven by different scientific experiments that women perform exactly or even better than men when given the same opportunities and when gender bias has been taken away from their environment.

By defualt, this puts them as the head of the family.

Lol, grin I know you just said this because of your religious beliefs.
Most men don't deserve to be head of even a flock of sheep, talkless of a whole family of wife and kids. grin
And in some instances, women have better decision making abilities than the men they marry, most women end up marrying men who they are more intelligent/smarter than so why should she defer decision making to a man she is more intelligent than?

Men are most likely to earn more(there are some exceptions), and this makes them the bread winner of the family
,

Yeah, men are more likely to earn more because of the societal bias against working women, not because they are naturally prone to earn more.


Look, I know my husband is the head of the family and I'll never contest that. By being submissive and firm, I stand to gain a lot more. He's just the ceremonial head of the family. Subliminally, I'm the one runnig the show because he trusts me completely, he knows I respect him and that I have his best interest in mind. It's not rocket science really.

More religious talk.
And please, you are not running the show when you submit to your husband.
You are subject to his decisions.
You are under him.
You do not run the show subliminally or otherwise, please don't kid yourself.
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by ifyalways(f): 4:30pm On Oct 31, 2012
Felis,I don't agree that submitting to your husband makes you subject to his decisions or places you under him.well,unless you as a woman made a wrong decision and married an a*hole.

Submitting to your husband makes you a consultant and stakeholder for every decision to be made and places you just beside your husband.A good husband is just like a captain while wife is ship.both needs each other 50/50 to function.

Gotta do school runs,would be back to comment on the topic.

1 Like

Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by Nobody: 4:31pm On Oct 31, 2012
Egba girl:
See that's the kind of feminist I am. I dont believe in inequality because I am a woman. Why should you treat me unfairly based on my sex? Women's voices need to be heard. Their work needs to be acknowledged and they should be left in the dark because they dont count or put on a different level because they are women. They are human beings too. Respect me and treat me like you would any other person and I will do the same. Shikena. Especially in this 21st century with education and all. You cant say that men and women should attend school, learn the same thing and then one sex will be paid higher than the other. Are women paying less tuition than the men? Such injustices need to be addressed.

I kind of agree with this... So, what do you think about women who want to play the role of "husbands" in the family on the premise of feminism?

Now in some African countries, politics is the main thing here. Especially in war torn places, women are completely ignored except for places like Liberia, and maybe Rwanda (They about half the parliament or whatever it is called made of women. Impressive!). But my argument is that law makers need to take into consideration how the political, economic and social structures negatively affect women. Maybe we need more women in politics which is what most people (women) are advocating for. Women in politics is another issue entirely.

However, women in politics and decision making roles haven't really shown that they are up-to-the-task... For example: Hilary Clinton has shown that women don't really have the decency, or diplomatic skills needed in decision making, when it comes to international politics...
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by Egbagirl(f): 4:40pm On Oct 31, 2012
La Parisienne:

I know my rights and I don't take bullcrap from anybody. I also try to educate other women to stand up for themselves and reject abuse(physical or emotional).

What I don't do is walk around with a chip on my shoulder, feeling that being a woman is the next big thing.

Men and women are different, there's nothing we can do about that.

Right I see what you mean and yes I dont fancy acting like a womnan is the next big thing either. Good to know you do all the above though. Thats wassup. And I definitely agree that men and women are different and they play complementary roles but hey if a woman chooses to be in the military for example, she should be allowed to as long as she can. To each his own but there should be no discrimination based on sex.
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by Nobody: 4:41pm On Oct 31, 2012
ifyalways:
Felis,I don't agree that submitting to your husband makes you subject to his decisions or places you under him.well,unless you as a woman made a wrong decision and married an a*hole.

What is the definition of submission, first of all? Please define submission.
Thank you.

ifyalways:
Submitting to your husband makes you a consultant and stakeholder for every decision to be made and places you just beside your husband.

Intriguing. . . . I cannot understand how though.
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by Egbagirl(f): 4:50pm On Oct 31, 2012
shymexx:

I kind of agree with this... So, what do you think about women who want to play the role of "husbands" in the family on the premise of feminism?



However, women in politics and decision making roles haven't really shown that they are up-to-the-task... For example: Hilary Clinton has shown that women don't really have the decency, or diplomatic skills needed in decision making, when it comes to international politics...


playing the role of "husbands". Hmmmm omo, dat one na wahala o. I mean the truth is, it all depends on the couple. They should establish what roles they want to play. Each couple should define their own relationship. If the guy wants to be a stay home dad and the woman wants to work, so be it. Na dem get their marriage. If they both share the responsibilities equally so be it. My own is respect. Respect for each other and that way no one feels like they are being walked upon or disrespected.

I get what you are saying about women being the breadwinners and calling the shots. In some cases, that is how the guy wants it. I'm treading carefully here so as not to sound like women are on a lower level than men but respect is the key. A woman needs to respect her husband and vice versa. I believe in equality but at the same time, I believe in respecting my man's authority. There needs to be a balance if you dig what I mean? Each party should know the role they play and execute it accordingly. How they choose to define those roles is up to them.


On the issue of politics, I have to say that I agree with you and as for me, I am more concerned about the political structure and not the presence of women. (There are many women in power that have done nothing or who are simply puppets for the men. There are however, women who have been put in power through quota systems and what not and who have performed well. It all depends on the country and the current situation - war torn or just recovering from war etc). I would advocate a less rigid and more accepting structure of women. My take on it is that, as long as you are qualified, you should be in power whether male or female. This is probably where I would be a postmodern feminists. The political structure needs to be reshaped to allow women who are qualified come into power without hassles and their opinions should count because they have meaningful contributions.
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by LaParisienne(f): 4:55pm On Oct 31, 2012
fellis:
True. But machines have taken over a lot of these 'physically demanding' jobs.

Yeah it's true that machines haven taken over some of these jobs. But a lot of men are still employed in the mining industries, oil fields, as plumbers, builders etc. Now there might be a few women working those kind of jobs, but it's mostly male dominated.


fellis:
Lol,not all men are emotionally stronger and not all men handle heartbreaks and tough situations better than women.
Infact you need to understand what the word 'emotion' connotes before you decide whether or not men handle them better than women.
The word 'Emotion' means a strong feeling about something/some matter.
If we look at it in this sense, men react more emotionally than women in certain situations. A woman can react more emotionally than a man when it comes to handling the death of a loved one, but a man would react more emotionally than a woman when it comes to issues such as dealing with threats to his manhood.
Another example; there have been news about how men stabbed other men (with knives), because they supported opposing football teams and those opposing teams won. There has never been any news of a woman reacting in such an emotional manner because of something as simple as a football match.
Men also tend to turn to alcohol when it comes to handling trauma (something which women are not known to do) and this, in a way, proves that they cannot handle the reality of their situations and thus they turn to alcohol to forget. How can you then conclude that all men handle trauma better than women when you know that men do this?
Anyway my point is, men react more emotionally than women when it comes to certain issues and women react more emotionally than men in other issues.
You have to provide evidence to support your claim that men are more, overall, emotionally stronger than women before you make such a declaration.
It has also been proven by different scientific experiments that women perform exactly or even better than men when given the same opportunities and when gender bias has been taken away from their environment.

Although I get your point, you really don't have an argument here. Men are emotionally stronger than women, generally. Everyone know's this. There might be a few exceptions, like the ones you listed above.


fellis:
Lol, grin I know you just said this because of your religious beliefs.
Most men don't deserve to be head of even a flock of sheep, talkless of a whole family of wife and kids. grin
And in some instances, women have better decision making abilities than the men they marry, most women end up marrying men who they are more intelligent/smarter than so why should she defer decision making to a man she is more intelligent than?

You are going too far by saying ''most men don't deserve to be head of even a flock of sheep, talkless of a whole family of wife and kids''. This true for some men, but not ''most'' men. I don't know the kind of men you roll with, but most men I know are responsible poeple with good family and societal values.


fellis:
Yeah, men are more likely to earn more because of the societal bias against working women, not because they are naturally prone to earn more.

Men are naturally prone to work harder, so it isn't surprising that they tend to earn higher than their female counterparts. I'm not underplaying the role of societal bias here, just giving another perspective.


fellis:
More religious talk.
And please, you are not running the show when you submit to your husband.
You are subject to his decisions.
You are under him.
You do not run the show subliminally or otherwise, please don't kid yourself.

Call it what you like, but it works for me.
I RUN the show in my house. My husband can never make any major purchase or decision without consulting me first. When he's making plans, he considers me first. He has utmost respect for me as I for him, and he genuinely cares for my wellbeing. I plan ALL our vacations, I choose the color of the house etc.
So please how does this make me a subject to his decisions, when I'm making most of the decisions? How exactly am I under him?

Maybe you don't understand my own definition of submission. It's a far cry from being an unheard slave who tolerates all kinds of cheating and abuse. It's about being firm and respectful to my husband.
Men are egoistic. You tell them what they want to hear, and they do whatever you want them to do. It's hardly rocket science cool

1 Like

Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by LaParisienne(f): 5:02pm On Oct 31, 2012
ifyalways:
Felis,I don't agree that submitting to your husband makes you subject to his decisions or places you under him. well,unless you as a woman made a wrong decision and married an a*hole.

Submitting to your husband makes you a consultant and stakeholder for every decision to be made and places you just beside your husband.A good husband is just like a captain while wife is ship.both needs each other 50/50 to function.

Gotta do school runs,would be back to comment on the topic.

Very well said.
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by Nobody: 5:32pm On Oct 31, 2012
I'm loving Egba_girl's input and her version of feminism...

I'll reply your post in a bit. I need to fix something, quickly.
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by Nobody: 5:57pm On Oct 31, 2012
La Parisienne:

Yeah it's true that machines taken over some of these jobs. But a lot of men are still employed in the mining industries, oil fields, as plumbers, builders etc. Now there might be a few women working those kind of jobs, but it's mostly male dominated.


I said machines have taken over a lot of these jobs, I didn't say men don't work in mining industries or oil fields any longer. What is your point?


Although I get your point, you really don't have an argument here. Men are emotionally stronger than women, generally. Everyone know's this. There might be a few exceptions, like the ones you listed above.
You are the one with no point.
People's emotional reactions to different matters differ, depending on how important those matters are to them.
Another reason men appear to be stronger emotionally is because the collective/accepted norm (by the majority) is for men to not display their emotions otherwise they would be seen as weaklings or no-good men. This gives men more reason to hide their emotional reactions than women who are pardoned for displaying emotions (by crying and the likes). That is why they appear to handle emotions better.
If a man is raised in an environment where men are allowed to be as emotional as women without being tagged weak, the situation is likely to change.



You are going too far by saying ''most men don't deserve to be head of even a flock of sheep, talkless of a whole family of wife and kids''. This true for some men, but not ''most'' men. I don't know the kind of men you roll with, but most men I know are responsible poeple with good family and societal values.

First of all, how am I going too far by mentioning that?
Do you want to pretend that you don't know that some men are utterly irresponsible and unworthy of being put in charge of important affairs?
And don't go personal by alluding that I roll with such men that is why I made that statement. Don't do it, let's keep this discussion peaceful.




Men are naturally prone to work harder, so it isn't surprising that they tend to earn higher than their female counterparts. I'm not underplaying the role of societal bias here, just giving another perspective.

Yes, in the absence of those machines that can do the hard work that women are not capable of carrying out, men have the potential to work longer at physically demanding jobs.


Call it what you like, but it works for me.
I RUN the show in my house. My husband can never make any major purchase or decision without consulting me first. When he's making plans, he considers me first. He has utmost respect for me as I for him, and he genuinely cares for my wellbeing. I plan ALL our vacations, I choose the color of the house etc.
So please how does this make me a subject to his decisions, when I'm making most of the decisions? How exactly am I under him?

Maybe you don't understand my own definition of submission. It's a far cry from being an unheard slave who tolerates all kinds of cheating and abuse. It's about being firm and respectful to my husband.
Men are egoistic. You tell them what they want to hear, and they do whatever you want them to do. It's hardly rocket science cool

@bold, You have your own definition of submission abi? Good.
That explains why you think submission does not mean you have to defer authority to someone else.
Case closed on this submission matter. Our definitions are different.
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by Nobody: 6:10pm On Oct 31, 2012
Hmmmm... I enjoyed reading the retorts by both fellis and La Parisienne lol...

La Parisienne is the bossy type...
Re: Is Feminism Really Un-african? by Nobody: 6:23pm On Oct 31, 2012
Egba girl:
I get what you are saying about women being the breadwinners and calling the shots. In some cases, that is how the guy wants it. I'm treading carefully here so as not to sound like women are on a lower level than men but respect is the key. A woman needs to respect her husband and vice versa. I believe in equality but at the same time, I believe in respecting my man's authority. There needs to be a balance if you dig what I mean? Each party should know the role they play and execute it accordingly. How they choose to define those roles is up to them.

I concur 100%! However, you don't need to thread carefully when you're expressing your opinions... I like your point-of-view and it shows you understand the concept of creating a balance when imbibing a new ideology, so as not to let it change who you're and your cultural outlook on life... You need to educate some of your sisters on nl who think copying all the feminism ideology/propaganda is a good idea, without doing check and balances... Personally, I'm not a big fan of anything with "ism" at the back because it leads to extremism - and when we borrow ideas/ideologies, we need to stay in the middle and learn how to create a balance....

Thumps up!

On the issue of politics, I have to say that I agree with you and as for me, I am more concerned about the political structure and not the presence of women. (There are many women in power that have done nothing or who are simply puppets for the men. There are however, women who have been put in power through quota systems and what not and who have performed well. It all depends on the country and the current situation - war torn or just recovering from war etc). I would advocate a less rigid and more accepting structure of women. My take on it is that, as long as you are qualified, you should be in power whether male or female. This is probably where I would be a postmodern feminists. The political structure needs to be reshaped to allow women who are qualified come into power without hassles and their opinions should count because they have meaningful contributions.

I also agree with you on this one... I know a lot of women would disagree with you because they just want to see women occupying the position-of-power, or decision-making - without actually checking if they have got what it takes to be there...

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