Mr man, Igbo is as old as ndigbo, we may exist independently but the fact still remains that ndigbo know their selves as igbo long befor the white man set foot in their land

agbotaen: 1. many nigerians like to think that their ethnic groups came from heaven or the names were pronounced by god and this is a lie ,
2. 200 years ago ,almost all the major nigerian ethnic groups were not in existence and that include yoruba, ika, igbo, bini, ishan, ijaw and the rest , it was british influence that helped concretise many of these groups, what we had were kingdoms and empires like benin empire which included most southern nigeria ,ika, bini, ishan, uhrobho, isoko, itsekiri, and many anioma and some yoruba areas like ondo,akure, owo and others, and we had kanem bornu empire, sokoto caliphate and others , then later even agbor kingdom included many communities in edo and delta ,and then we had abor kingdom too ,and we also had oyo empire which included many yoruba towns and even dahomey in benin republic , so as at this time where was yoruba? where was igbo ? where was ijaw or others , the answer is they did not exist as an ethnic group like they are today, but these people existed as city states like opobo, okrika, owa kingdom, abavo kingdom, owo kingdom, onitcha kingdom and others .so let all this people take note , it was even the british that started classifying people as igbo and they classified them according to some culture traits, linguistic evidence and some times because of politics, so as time went on they aslo helped to create the standard igbo many speak via christianity and education ,by combinning many dialects together .and this they also did to the isoko by calling them uhrobo and this lasted for a while untill the isoko people asserted their ethnic nationality.
so there is no ethnicity that was brought from heaven it is man made and so a people who think they are distinct can establish their own ethnic identity.just like ishan and bini speak similar languages but they are different ethnic group.

The white man may give other ethnic group identity but that is not the case for ndigbo. British classifyin people as igbo and creatin a standard igbo is laughable. How did they come about that?..

nedu210: Mr man, Igbo is as old as ndigbo, we may exist independently but the fact still remains that ndigbo know their selves as igbo long befor the white man set foot in their land

The white man may give other ethnic group identity but that is not the case for ndigbo. British classifyin people as igbo and creatin a standard igbo is laughable. How did they come about that?..

Agbotaen is right and its not applicable to Igbo alone. That Igbo identity was more of an identification gotten outside by slaves as a result of language similarities and later brought home. There is no doubt that the word Igbo existed but the concept is yet to be absolutely ascertained. If you visit the Carribean thread you'll see where slaves listed their ethnic groups and notice that Etche, Isuikwuato, Isuama, Abala, Oratta, Ugiri, Omuma and a lot of what we consider today as merely Igbo towns or clans considered themselves distinct.

Agbotaens intention is however different from mine. He believes we should go back to the past and have 1,000 ethnic groups in Igboland not knowing that "Igwe bu ike".

Abagworo:

Agbotaen is right and its not applicable to Igbo alone. That Igbo identity was more of an identification gotten outside by slaves as a result of language similarities and later brought home. There is no doubt that the word Igbo existed but the concept is yet to be absolutely ascertained. If you visit the Carribean thread you'll see where slaves listed their ethnic groups and notice that Etche, Isuikwuato, Isuama, Abala, Oratta, Ugiri, Omuma and a lot of what we consider today as merely Igbo towns or clans considered themselves distinct.

Agbotaens intention is however different from mine. He believes we should go back to the past and have 1,000 ethnic groups in Igboland not knowing that "Igwe bu ike".

I totally agree with you and believe its plain naivety that would make anyone think otherwise.

Abagworo:

Agbotaen is right and its not applicable to Igbo alone. That Igbo identity was more of an identification gotten outside by slaves as a result of language similarities and later brought home. There is no doubt that the word Igbo existed but the concept is yet to be absolutely ascertained. If you visit the Carribean thread you'll see where slaves listed their ethnic groups and notice that Etche, Isuikwuato, Isuama, Abala, Oratta, Ugiri, Omuma and a lot of what we consider today as merely Igbo towns or clans considered themselves distinct.

Agbotaens intention is however different from mine. He believes we should go back to the past and have 1,000 ethnic groups in Igboland not knowing that "Igwe bu ike".

They listed their villages and clans but not ethnicities.

Andre Uweh: They listed their villages and clans but not ethnicities.

What kind of comment is this? Are you serious? I don't get why you try so hard to create a false impression of "Igbo ethnic history". Igbo ethnic history begins with slaves captured, sold and transported in the 16th and 17th centuries, escalates during post-colonialism and then is finally grounded in Biafra. End of story.

^^

Thank you.

ChinenyeN:
What kind of comment is this? Are you serious? I don't get why you try so hard to create a false impression of "Igbo ethnic history". Igbo ethnic history begins with slaves captured, sold and transported in the 16th and 17th centuries, escalates during post-colonialism and then is finally grounded in Biafra. End of story.

Do not pretend as if you didn't understand what I wrote. Do you think that the slave masters were interested in recording over 65 clans in Igboland as ethnic groups.
Did the slave masters say that they bought slaves from over 65 ethnic groups in eastern hinterland?.
I pepeat once again, that what was recored was their clans and villages and not ethnic groups, never. Or you want to tell me that a slave from Ugiri doesn't know that another slave from Amaraku belong to the same ethnic group as him/her?. Amaraku is just 3 miles from Ugiri and within Mbano.
So you mean to tell me that Amaraku and Ugiri are different ethnic groups.
Boy,Use your God given brain. Whatever time the Igbo ethnic group was formed is not my worry here but to claim that the slaves claimed that their ethnic groups were Ugiri, Amaraku, etc as ethnic groups instead or clans is incredible.

"Clans", "ethnic group". The problem with your understanding, Andre, is that you talk as if Europeans didn't deliver these concepts to us. You are telling me to use my brain, but I will implore you to be objective in using yours. You cannot rightly apply 21st century worldview in an attempt to understand something that occurred in the 16th and 17th centuries. That is foolishness, to be honest.

Just stop telling yourself lies, and be honest about the Igbo situation. In the 16th and 17th century, there was no ethnic oneness. Communities considered themselves distinct, both politically, socially and even in their identities. The fact that Ugiri and Amaraku were recorded only goes to show how the people identified, and there is nothing you can do to prove otherwise. The only way you would have an actual case is if these people self-identified as "Igbo" to the Eurpeans, but clearly we do not see that. No home-grown "Igbo" ethnic consciousness existed. So, excuse the good people of the 16th and 17th centuries for ethnically identifying as Etche, Ugiri, Amaraku, Ngwa, etc. instead of as "Igbo". Or if you would prefer, go back in time and tell them that they are wrong in not identifying their "ethnic group" and instead identifying their "clans" and "villages". Then see if they will see sense in what comes out of your mouth.

Honestly, I will never understand why some of you will try so hard to draw up an unsubstantiated image of Igbo ethnic history. It is as if you can't be satisfied with creating a better Igbo today, unless you first create your ideal Igbo of yester-century.

ChinenyeN: "Clans", "ethnic group". The problem with your understanding, Andre, is that you talk as if Europeans didn't deliver these concepts to us. You are telling me to use my brain, but I will implore you to be objective in using yours. You cannot rightly apply 21st century worldview in an attempt to understand something that occurred in the 16th and 17th centuries. That is foolishness, to be honest.

Just stop telling yourself lies, and be honest about the Igbo situation. In the 16th and 17th century, there was no ethnic oneness. Communities considered themselves distinct, both politically, socially and even in their identities. The fact that Ugiri and Amaraku were recorded only goes to show how the people identified, and there is nothing you can do to prove otherwise. The only way you would have an actual case is if these people self-identified as "Igbo" to the Eurpeans, but clearly we do not see that. No home-grown "Igbo" ethnic consciousness existed. So, excuse the good people of the 16th and 17th centuries for ethnically identifying as Etche, Ugiri, Amaraku, Ngwa, etc. instead of as "Igbo". Or if you would prefer, go back in time and tell them that they are wrong in not identifying their "ethnic group" and instead identifying their "clans" and "villages". Then see if they will see sense in what comes out of your mouth.

Honestly, I will never understand why some of you will try so hard to draw up an unsubstantiated image of Igbo ethnic history. It is as if you can't be satisfied with creating a better Igbo today, unless you first create your ideal Igbo of yester-century.

Your argument here is not neccessary. It is only an imbe-cile will believe that what the slave masters recorded for the slaves were their ethniciies instead of villages or clans.
The slaves whether they saw each other as Igbo or not is not my business but only a toddler will believe that the record held was that of ethnic groups. For example that Amaraku and Ugiri villages who are descended from one father are different ethnic groups.
Someone wants me to believe that within Igboland, there were nearly 70 ethnic groups before colonialism. Utter nonsense and stupidity at its highest.

I don't understand what it is that you don't get. You keep going on about a phantom ethnic group, and getting angry over the concept of "clan" and "village", as if that is how those people saw their world. You want to argue 16th century with 21st century understanding. That's not how it works, and if you can't get that, then we can't seriously have a reasonable discussion.

ChinenyeN: I don't understand what it is that you don't get. You keep going on about a phantom ethnic group, and getting angry over the concept of "clan" and "village", as if that is how those people saw their world. You want to argue 16th century with 21st century understanding. That's not how it works, and if you can't get that, then we can't seriously have a reasonable discussion.

Its the same problem the white men encountered. As they approached each town with similar language, they felt they should all have one King, one culture and one government. All the same that was 400 years ago but today things have shaped up. Even then Europeans onlyjust organized themselves into nations. Few centuries before that, England was also different people that were still mixing up.

One_Naira:

Afam4eva you guys do not realize how much impact that word has. Many of the deniers go along the route of "I'm not Igbo" because of that two words. Remember that one statement from obi of owa, he said something like we are stretching our hands to reconnect, it is SE Igbo that are holding back and. refusing to reconnect. I can't remember he's exact words but it is something similar to that. The term "fake igbo" kinda gives the impression that una do not see us as one of you but rather a set of ppl that have no identity and trying to force ourselves onto una. Which sadly, I've witness many SE igbo even the usa born say. Few months ago, i went to a Nigerian gathering. It was mostly delta ppl, one yoruba, the girl from imo state, an onitsha chick and my sister and I. The conservation got into about delta igbo. Exactly the same thing you started a topic on, why are delta igbo not just called igbo. I don't remember what motivated her to say this but all i remember is the edo chick said something and the imo state girl said "well they are not igbo. They call themselves igbo" addressing that word to delta igbo. Sad thing is this girl was born and raised in usa so her mindset shouldn't be like that. Luckily, the onitsha jumped in and corrected her before we did. Yes that word, those two words have a lot of impact. It is idiotic to think like that but what do you except a person to think when you are constantly called fake, wannabe, etc.

The other day I was discussing with a young man from Ogwashi-Ukwu who was on an industry attache in my coy.He told me he is not Igbo and I asked him where he came from, he said Delta. I asked where in Delta before he confessed Ogwashi-Uku. I quickly added if you are from Ogwashi-Ukwu it means you are an Igbo man. That was when he opened up to me why he choose to be a Delta man instead of an Igbo.

He said he had issues with his Yoruba mates both at home and school. He said he fell in love with a Yoruba girl who is his classmate. He was disgraced the day she took him home. The parents started shouting at her How could you bring Omo-Igbo home as a your husband to be. But the girl tried to explain to them that he is not Omo-Igbo (SE) but a Delta man so that he can be accepted. But the parents insisted that they are all same.

This young man has taken another identity so that he can be accepted by other tribes especially Yorubas by claiming he is a Delta man. I had to correct him to defend his ethnicity even if people don`t accept him. By changing his ethnicity wouldnt make people love him the more. I quickly added that a time will come in Nigeria that people will be judged by who they are and not by where they come from. The civil war did lots of damage to the Igbo people.

For me Igbo ethnic group comprises of different nations/tribes just like other ethnic group.

1. my motive is simply to teach many people that no ethnic group existed in nigeria 200 years ago and to let people know that ika is an ethnic group created just like others.and this major creation took a solid stance in 1930 ,by the letters our fathers wrote to the british when benin claimed that ika was part of benin.our fathers said ika is not part of any known ethnic group in nigeria,and that ika is a seperate ethnicity.
i wonder in 2012 , how ika has become any other group in nigeria?

agbotaen: 1. my motive is simply to teach many people that no ethnic group existed in nigeria 200 years ago and to let people know that ika is an ethnic group created just like others.and this major creation took a solid stance in 1930 ,by the letters our fathers wrote to the british when benin claimed that ika was part of benin.our fathers said ika is not part of any known ethnic group in nigeria,and that ika is a seperate ethnicity.
i wonder in 2012 , how ika has become any other group in nigeria?

To the best of my knowledge, the thread is about Anioma and not Ika. There is an Ika thread already, you might take your case to that thread.
Secondly, all the sermon you preach here are so full of falsehood and you hardly have any proof to back up your claims. Binis hardly regard Ishan as Bini and how much more an Igbo speaking people. Dude, you are not doing the Ika people any good but disgrace to them.

my motives are simply ,it is to project ika as an ethnic group, just like you are trying to project ika people as igbos which we are not.

afam4eva: I know we've discussed on numerous cases the ethnic identity crises in some parts of Anioma. We know that Ika areas have an identity crises. I was shocked when i was told by Emeka Esogbue that Anioma is an ethnic group and not part of the Igbo ethnic group. This guy has single handedly created an ethnic group by himself and it seems some Anioma people are buying into it. I know that majority of Asaba, Ibusa and it's enviorons are proud Igbos but it shook me when Emeka, an Ibusa Indegene told me that Anioma is an ethnic group. I want to employ Anioma people especially those from the Asaba and Ibusa axis to let their voices heard in order to checkmate Emeka Esogbue because it seems his followers are increasing by the day. We don't want Anioma to go the way of Ikwerre.

why do u always emphasize on issues relating 2 d anioma people? And who told u ppl 4rm asaba & ibusa are proud 2 be associated wit d igbos?

pat077: why do u always emphasize on issues relating 2 d anioma people? And who told u ppl 4rm asaba & ibusa are proud 2 be associated wit d igbos?

Ewu,what do you know about igbo'uzo and ahaba.

pat077: why do u always emphasize on issues relating 2 d anioma people? And who told u ppl 4rm asaba & ibusa are proud 2 be associated wit d igbos?

Monkey, shut up your smelly mouth, idiott.

pazienza:

Ewu,what do you know about igbo'uzo and ahaba.

ina gi bu Ewu. So u want to prove that u know Anioma than the Anioma ppl? Why not concentrate on ur Biafra project.

Ngodigha1:
Monkey, shut up your smelly mouth, idiott.

why do u derive pleasure callin ppl monkey? I'm sure ur fada is d Eze idi monkey. Hope u did't forget 2 get him some banana today.

agbotaen: my motives are simply ,it is to project ika as an ethnic group, just like you are trying to project ika people as igbos which we are not.

i just don't know d problem wit d igbos, always trying to claim whats nt theirs, thats why they r d major victim of crisis in d north.

pat077: ina gi bu Ewu. So u want to prove that u know Anioma than the Anioma ppl? Why not concentrate on ur Biafra project.

Ewu can beer,i guess you know more about ahaba than the asagba of asaba who is the current leader of all ezes in igboland,and a grand patron of ohanaeze ndiigbo. And you know more about ibusa people than their ancestors, who named their town as igbo bi na uzo. Mpama.

pat077: why do u always emphasize on issues relating 2 d anioma people? And who told u ppl 4rm asaba & ibusa are proud 2 be associated wit d igbos?

I don't know who or what you are but don't ever mention Asaba again.

One_Naira:

I don't know who or what you are but don't ever mention Asaba again.

And what if i do?

pat077: i just don't know d problem wit d igbos, always trying to claim whats nt theirs, thats why they r d major victim of crisis in d north.

Brain dead monkey, Igbo is not claiming any place that is not Igbo. Your people are also targeted in the north, so shut up your stinking mouth, fool.

Ournaija:

The other day I was discussing with a young man from Ogwashi-Ukwu who was on an industry attache in my coy.He told me he is not Igbo and I asked him where he came from, he said Delta. I asked where in Delta before he confessed Ogwashi-Uku. I quickly added if you are from Ogwashi-Ukwu it means you are an Igbo man. That was when he opened up to me why he choose to be a Delta man instead of an Igbo.

He said he had issues with his Yoruba mates both at home and school. He said he fell in love with a Yoruba girl who is his classmate. He was disgraced the day she took him home. The parents started shouting at her How could you bring Omo-Igbo home as a your husband to be. But the girl tried to explain to them that he is not Omo-Igbo (SE) but a Delta man so that he can be accepted. But the parents insisted that they are all same.

This young man has taken another identity so that he can be accepted by other tribes especially Yorubas by claiming he is a Delta man. I had to correct him to defend his ethnicity even if people don`t accept him. By changing his ethnicity wouldnt make people love him the more. I quickly added that a time will come in Nigeria that people will be judged by who they are and not by where they come from. The civil war did lots of damage to the Igbo people.

For me Igbo ethnic group comprises of different nations/tribes just like other ethnic group.

Sorry i didn't address this earlier, i didn't see it. The guy is an 1diot nothing more. My grandmother is from ogwashi-ukwu. They are similar to us, very proudful ppl. They do not change themselves for noone. He's disgrace to ppl of ogwashi-ukwu. A huge disgrace to change himself just because a trabilistic family did not want him. Smh. I don't even take anything the Yoruba say to heart. Most anioma don't, even the deniers. He's a big disgrace. On top of that claiming something that's none existence. there is no such thing as delta ethnicity just to let you know. Idk what the guy told u but every ethnicity in delta claim their ethnicity, not the state. They only mention delta went its of benefit. Anyway, as for the nigg@, he's on his own. I know ogwashi-ukwu, the same way i know Asaba, like the back of my hand. I'm shocked to even hear their is someone like that from that area. Smh. They are very proudful ppl.

pat077: And what if i do?

I'll say it once more. Keep asaba out of your bs. You're not one of us. Don't speak for us. Mind your area, your tribe. Butt out of sh1t wey no concern you. If you have to speak, don't mention us. Shikena

pat077: why do u always emphasize on issues relating 2 d anioma people? And who told u ppl 4rm asaba & ibusa are proud 2 be associated wit d igbos?

Who let this psycho out ?? Shut ur smelly breath mumu ati ode...you don't know anything about what you are saying...just keep moving?odebruku.

Odenigbo Aroli:

Who let this psycho out ?? Shut ur smelly breath mumu ati ode...you don't know anything about what you are saying...just keep moving?odebruku.

what r u doin here? Kindly do urself a favour by vistin a mental hospital & beg dem 2 admit u coz mentally derange ppl lyke u r nt suppose 2 b here.

One_Naira:

I'll say it once more. Keep asaba out of your bs. You're not one of us. Don't speak for us. Mind your area, your tribe. Butt out of sh1t wey no concern you. If you have to speak, don't mention us. Shikena

who is speakin 4 u. Are u d only one 4rm asaba? I speak 4 myself. If u're proud relating wit d igbos dats ur businees.

Ngodigha1:
Brain dead monkey, Igbo is not claiming any place that is not Igbo. Your people are also targeted in the north, so shut up your stinking mouth, fool.

d son of Eze idi monkey. Hw r u doin & did u visit d zoo 2 see ur fada 2day? Big fool.

Has anyone ever asked why it is only among Igbos that someone that speaks Igbo language as his 1st and only language denies affinity to the greater Igbo? Was it always like this? Granted the Europeans aided in creation of the Igbo identity( but it is also same across Nigeria and Africa) why then is the case of Igbo different? Why is Agbotaen et al trying their best to dis-link the kinship they share with other Igbos. Why are they trying so much to lean on the Benin side of their history rather than accepting the truth even as told by the Obi?

The answer is simple. The failed coup of 1966 which was tagged Igbo coup had a multiplier effect on the feeling of other Nigerians towards Igbos and the resultant war and the war propaganda worsened it. The Igbos lost the trust other Nigerians had for them and anybody that had the option of dual ethnicity would hurriedly drop the Igbo part and some went as far as modifying their languages.

The other question is "would denying your Igbo kinship help you gain acceptance?". IMHO, it can only give a temporary relief from the immediate situation but will hunt you in the long run. For example here on Nairaland, a lot of non-Igbos believe Agbotaen has a genuine case without knowing what is involved. Agbotaen would feel that his campaign of distinct ethnicity had met success among non-Igbos but realized it hit the rock when some (Igbo)Ikas were caught as the kidnappers of Osun speaker's wife. Most non-Igbos immediately accused Igbos of bringing kidnapping to SW without knowing fully well that it is the same (Igbo) Ikas that they had all these while lent Agbotaen support of distinctness.

My advice to the Igbos in Delta State is to think twice and never believe that sudden change in ethnicity will make all those other Nigerians view them differently. It is still on record that most of the Igbo officers that were involved in the 1966 coup were from present Delta State. It is also as a result of the coup that the polgrom against all Igbos happened and the resultant Biafran war as well.