Nevertheless, the divisions among Christians prevent the Church from attaining the fullness of catholicity proper to her, in those of her sons who, though attached to her by Baptism, are yet separated from full communion with her. Furthermore, the Church herself finds it more difficult to express in actual life her full catholicity in all her bearings.

830 The word “catholic” means “universal,” in the sense of “according to the totality” or “in keeping with the whole.” The Church is catholic in a double sense: (795, 815-816)

First, the Church is catholic because Christ is present in her. “Where there is Christ Jesus, there is the Catholic Church.”307 In her subsists the fullness of Christ’s body united with its head; this implies that she receives from him “the fullness of the means of salvation”308 which he has willed: correct and complete confession of faith, full sacramental life, and ordained ministry in apostolic succession. The Church was, in this fundamental sense, catholic on the day of Pentecost309 and will always be so until the day of the Parousia.

Enigma: ^^^ You want to perform the tasks I set him? Or you too are not brave enough?

Reyginus: This one really bothers me. Can the pope be infallible?

Ubenedictus: hehehe, u are afraid of his question and you resorted to cheap insult.

That is gross

Ihedinobi:

Where is the fear and what insult?

Enigma: ^^^ Crybaby.

Keep up the lying and slandering. It's all cool.

Ubenedictus: Ihend, this is what i call cheap insult.

Enigma: And here the Roman Catholic Church implicitly notes the oxymoronic effect of calling itself "Catholic".

Para 4 of http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19641121_unitatis-redintegratio_en.html



Just a round about way of saying that the Roman Catholic Church is not truly catholic.

Enigma: Now, I've been accused on this thread and a number of others of only quoting part of Ignatius' statement on "catholic Church"; I was even called a "fraud" for it.

Now look who has done exactly the same thing? It is only the Roman Catholic Church"! Oh, and it only did it in its Catechism!



So who is the fraud now?

And, truly, there is indeed an element of fraud in the use of Ignatius' statement in this quote above.

Enigma: Now, I've been accused on this thread and a number of others of only quoting part of Ignatius' statement on "catholic Church"; I was even called a "fraud" for it.

Now look who has done exactly the same thing? It is only the Roman Catholic Church"! Oh, and it only did it in its Catechism!



So who is the fraud now?

And, truly, there is indeed an element of fraud in the use of Ignatius' statement in this quote above.

Enigma:

I wonder oh, bros, I wonderment!

Meanwhile the concerned fellow don mellow small after reading the thread on the Orthodox Catholic Church (aka Eastern Orthodox Church).

Ubenedictus: i don't know d reason kay isn't here but clearly you didnt answer his question! And i still ask ya to answer it.

Kay 17:

Ok, I will concede to your definition and leave that issue for another time.

Given your definition, can you point out any used by the Christians before the 4th century. Note that a individual texts themselves don't count as a collection, rather a number of individual texts adopted together

I wouldn't mind historical references too.

Enigma:

And I ask again, are you afraid to perform the tasks I set him?

Perform the tasks, I answer the question. That's deal. Otherwise, you can keep asking till kingdom come.

Ubenedictus: you said infalliability is imposible without impecability. And at the same time u believe in 1st and 2nd pt, peter taught infallably while he wasn't impacable.
Isn't this hypocrisy?

Ihedinobi: @ubenedictus
'Crybaby' is an insult? Or the part about lying etc?
And what about the fear?

Ubenedictus: now my dear, if crybaby isn't a cheap insult then whatelse is?

Ubenedictus: Its been 2 pages now since the question was asked and he is giving "tasks" that are unrelated to the question. That is what i call fear.

Reyginus: This one really bothers me. Can the pope be infallible?

Enigma:
Who was the word directed to and what did he do or say?
And your inability to perform the tasks is what I call fear and/or duplicity; because performance of the tasks will expose the falsehood of the position of the Roman Catholic aologists --- without me even having to bother to say much more than I've done already.

Enigma:

Who was the word directed to and what did he do or say?



And your inability to perform the tasks is what I call fear and/or duplicity; because performance of the tasks will expose the falsehood of the position of the Roman Catholic aologists --- without me even having to bother to say much more than I've done already.

Ubenedictus: this is again a long attempt to derial the discussion. A list before d 4th century and you are giving task of people that existed in d 4th century. I expected you to simply give d list. Your inability to do so is pitiful.

Enigma: For those interested in genuinely understanding this issue of "canons of the Bible", and able to put 2 and 2 together, but perhaps not for those keen on propagating and spreading falsehoods, here is something to ponder:


http://www.orthodoxanswers.org/answer/39/

Question Number 39:

What is the Old Testament canon of the Orthodox Church? Is the Apocrypha recognized as canonical?


ANSWER:
The Orthodox Old Testament includes both canonical (or protocanonical) books and supplemental books which are not considered canonical (i.e. protocanonical) but deuterocanonical or in Greek Anaginoskomena ("to be read" ).

Deuterocanonical is used here in a sense that is different than the Roman Catholic sense. In Roman Catholic terminology, "deuterocanonical" means approved later but with the same canonical authority. In the Orthodox use, "deuterocanonical" means having secondary authority, but useful and part of the Biblical library (no Orthodox Bible would not contain them). The Scriptures testify to Jesus Christ and since neither Protestants nor Jews recognize these Scriptures, their power to serve as witness is inferior. However, they are read in the Orthodox churches and have great value.

This view is faithful to the position of the earliest Christians (i.e. Justin, Origen) as well as the distinction connected with Athanasius and other important Fathers.

Ubenedictus: this is again a long attempt to derial the discussion. A list before d 4th century and you are giving task of people that existed in d 4th century. I expected you to simply give d list. Your inability to do so is pitiful.

3. In proceeding to make mention of these things, I shall adopt, to commend my undertaking, the pattern of Luke the evangelist, saying on my own account, Forasmuch as some have taken in hand to reduce into order for themselves the books termed Apocryphal, and to mix them up with the divinely inspired Scripture, concerning which we have been fully persuaded, as they who from the beginning were eye-witnesses and ministers of the Word, delivered to the Fathers; it seemed good to me also, having been urged thereto by true brethren, and having learned from the beginning, to set before you the books included in the Canon, and handed down, and accredited as divine; to the end that anyone who has fallen into error may condemn those who have led them astray; and that he who has continued steadfast in purity may again rejoice, having these things brought to his remembrance.

Enigma: Meanwhile read this earlier post of mine and see that I have even started to answer the question despite the cowardice of you and others to perform the basic tasks set!

https://www.nairaland.com/1104124/problem-catholism-an-introspection/21#15206811

Enigma: Meanwhile read this earlier post of mine and see that I have even started to answer the question despite the cowardice of you and others to perform the basic tasks set!

https://www.nairaland.com/1104124/problem-catholism-an-introspection/21#15206811

Enigma:

Who was the word* directed to and what did he do or say? ....

Ihedinobi:

And I consider you guys' insistence on avoiding the tasks he gave and replying with unwarranted insults and rather bogus accusations proof that you realize that performing those tasks will answer Kay 17's question in a manner that will demolish your arguments.

If you are not afraid that the tasks will effectively put paid to your arguments, why have you guys not even attempted to answer his question and make clear as day that Enigma is only avoiding the issue when he fails to respond in kind with his own answer?