based on the idea of trinity, why was jesus praying to God and asking for God's direction. isn't jesus God 2. what about the holy spirit, does he lay around in the universe doing nothing. why is God so evil/dictatorial in the old testament but became humane in the new testament?? why didn't God eradicate any chances of sin after sending his son(God the father and God the son are allegedly the same by the way) to give us salvation. wouldn't it make sense to destroy the devil once and for all after sending the messiah.

1. God of Peace
1. (Isaiah 2:4) - "And He will judge between the nations, and will render decisions for many peoples; and they will hammer their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they learn war."
2. (Romans 15:33) - "Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen."


2. God of War
1. (Exodus 15:3) - "The Lord is a warrior; the Lord is His name."
2. (Joel 3:9-10) - "Proclaim this among the nations: Prepare a war; rouse the mighty men! Let all the soldiers draw near, let them come up! Beat your plowshares into swords, 10And your pruning hooks into spears; Let the weak say, “I am a mighty man.”


EDIT- this is a serious question and not meant to be blashphemy. in the Bible, we are all supposed to worship only One God but in a weird way there are God the father, God the son, and God the holy spirit. If God is a spirit according to some people, why do we need a separate "holy" spirit. either God is doing a helluva multi-tasking job or he has multiple personality disorder. as children of God, it's our job to help our father find it's identity.

If this were directed at allah MC Usman would have been issuiing threats.

@ bawomol i shall be back soon as i get the opportunity to give u a succint reply. Enjoy the freedom of being able to insult the personality of the christian God without any fatwas.

These proofs of the existence of God take the form of philosophical arguments:

1. The argument of the unmoved mover (ex motu).
* Some things are moved.
* Everything that is moved is moved by a mover.
* An infinite regress of movers is impossible.
* Therefore, there is an unmoved mover from whom all motion proceeds.
* This mover is what we call God.

2. The argument of the first cause (ex causa).
* Some things are caused.
* Everything that is caused is caused by something else.
* An infinite regress of causation is impossible.
* Therefore, there must be an uncaused cause of all caused things.
* This causer is what we call God.

3. The argument of contingency (ex contingentia).
* Many things in the universe may either exist or not exist. Such things are called contingent beings.
* It is impossible for everything in the universe to be contingent, as something can't come of nothing, and if traced back eventually there must have been one thing from which all others have occurred.
* Therefore, there must be a necessary being whose existence is not contingent on any other being(s).
* This being is what we call God.

4. The argument of degree (ex gradu).
* Various perfections may be found in varying degrees throughout the universe.
* These degrees of perfections assume the existence of the perfections themselves.
* The pinnacle of perfection, from which lesser degrees of perfection derive, is what we call God.

5. The argument of "design" (ex fine).
* All natural bodies in the world act for ends.
* These objects are in themselves unintelligent.
* To act for ends is characteristic of intelligence.
* Therefore, there exists an intelligent being which guides all natural bodies to their ends.
* This being we call God.

Already so desperate from this thread now, are you? I knew it would inevitably lead to that, and you're only proving what I said earlier.

Bawomol, I understand what you are getting at about trinity and all but the title of your thread is rather blasphemous. No, God does not have Multiple Personality Disorder because He is One and He is Perfect. And, yeah, I believe God is One and that there is no trinity. But please, consider rewording the title.

stranger26:

Bawomol, I understand what you are getting at about trinity and all but the title of your thread is rather blasphemous.

This is the catch that always shows up - and I keep saying it: I've seen it in other Fora!

The thing is to be first desperately and deliberately uncouth and blasphemous so that the one who proposes such language hopes to stump the discussion thereby. Anyone can see that.

God can be accused of MPD only if He exists. So we see the foolishness of atheism

i want answers people. why does God seem to have mood swings and a change of heart. accusing me of blasphemy is away of avoiding basic questions. why is God contradicting himself in the book he inspired.

God can be accused of MPD only if He exists. So we see the foolishness of atheism

it's an hypothetical question, i'm just testing your faith. u asked me to examine your mystical God through the scientific approach. checking for personality disorders is part of the process


I need answers, bamowol. Why do you suffer from the same psychosis

i have never been deemed mentally unstable in mylife, nor doi claim to be three people. do not divert the thread please.

bawomol:

i want answers people. why does God seem to have mood swings and a change of heart.

I need answers, bamowol. Why do you suffer from the same psychosis?

stimulus:

This is the catch that always shows up - and I keep saying it: I've seen it in other Fora!

The thing is to be first desperately and deliberately uncouth and blasphemous so that the one who proposes such language hopes to stump the discussion thereby. Anyone can see that.

I don't get that. Could you expand on it?

bawomol:

i want answers people. why does God seem to have mood swings and a change of heart. accusing me of blasphemy is away of avoiding basic questions. why is God contradicting himself in the book he inspired.

you dont want answers, you're simply confused. Like Imhotep says . . . it is either God does not exist or He does exist AND has MPD. Which one are u choosing?

you don't want answers, you're simply confused. Like Imhotep says . . . it is either God does not exist or He does exist AND has MPD. Which one are u choosing?

i'm actually not confused, my stance is that God doesn't exist and it's basically abstract thinking by man. i'm just performing an analysis of the bible and the nature of God as explained by Christians. this is a thread to discuss the trinity and the nature of the Abrahamaic "God". the square root of -1 doesn't exist but it definitely can be discussed.

bawomol:

i'm actually not confused, my stance is that God doesn't exist and it's basically abstract thinking by man. i'm just performing an analysis of the bible and the nature of God as explained by Christians. this is a thread to discuss the trinity and the nature of the Abrahamaic "God". the square root of -1 doesn't exist but it definitely can be discussed.

The "trinity" does not exist in the bible so what are you intending to discuss?
You cant be intending to discuss from an untenable position in the first place.

bawomol:

i'm actually not confused, my stance is that God doesn't exist and it's basically abstract thinking by man. i'm just performing an analysis of the bible and the nature of God as explained by Christians. this is a thread to discuss the trinity and the nature of the Abrahamaic "God". the square root of -1 doesn't exist but it definitely can be discussed.

Since you have shown us contradictions in the bible, why are you still referring to the same 'unreliable' bible?

Use your logical mind to prove that God does not exist, and give us concrete evidence. The bible cannot be trusted.

@stranger,

Sorry - was caught up with a few busy stuff and didn't mean to log out on you abruptly. So here:

stranger26:

I don't get that. Could you expand on it?

Actually, I'm quite open and interested in discussing religious issues with anyone - and even though we may not agree on so many things, does it make any sense for me to switch over and then begin to be deliberately uncouth in my expressions? What would that twist be suggesting other than that I'm seeking to stump the discussion (because I know that by being offensive, you would not like to carry on the discourse)?

For instance, my belief in the doctrine of the Trinity does not mean that I have to impose anything on you who does not believe likewise. We can discuss issues, agree on a few basic premises, disagree in a civil manner on some other issues - but for all that, I can be sane enough to be civil to your convictions. There would be no need for me to resort to such kinds of language to "prove" my point; and more than likely, it belittles my integrity to resort to such.

Now, if I don't want to be open or reasonable with you, I then pretend to sound intellectual and seek to stump the discussion by employing brash literary expressions - because I know you will then not want to engage me the moment my verbiage derides your convictions.

This is exactly the same pattern again and again that has been employed in some other fora - and it yields exactly the same effect. When all appeals to invite reason in such discussions seem to be fruitless, I don't pursue the discussion any further, because the discussant using such literary gimmick already knows he or she is seeking to lead the discussion to a dead end and arrive at nothing!

This is why I made several observations thereto in other threads to the OP - and this thread is a reaction to those observations, rather than his seeking to discuss issues.

The "trinity" does not exist in the bible so what are you intending to discuss?
You can't be intending to discuss from an untenable position in the first place.

the trinity is accepted as true by many Christian denominations. this is a viable discussion. what about God's mood. why switch from God of war to god of peace. seems drastic doesn't it.

Since you have shown us contradictions in the bible, why are you still referring to the same 'unreliable' bible?

so u agree the bible is inconsistent?? to be honest, u guys avoid every question by asking for proof while providing none of ur know. forget about proof, let's discuss the trinity and the mystical God's mental state

bawomol:

to be honest, u guys avoid every question by asking for proof while providing none of your know.

We are still waiting for your own proof and answers to the questions that have been offered you guys.

bawomol:

so u agree the bible is inconsistent?? to be honest, u guys avoid every question by asking for proof while providing none of your know. forget about proof, let's discuss the trinity and the mystical God's mental state

No. YOU arrived at the conclusion that the bible is inconsistent. Let us assume that you are right.

Now, WITHOUT biblical references, show me that God does not exist. Or, that He exists and has MPD.

stimulus, you are completely right. Noticed that pattern of behaviour too; seems they play on the protagonist's mind rather than argue logically.
And the discussion ends in a brawl,,,,original topic forgotten.

stranger26:

stimulus, you are completely right. Noticed that pattern of behaviour too; seems they play on the protagonist's mind rather than argue logically.
And the discussion ends in a brawl,,,,original topic forgotten.

My dear, you never see anything yet. It is always the same thing again and again!

bawomol:

the trinity is accepted as true by many Christian denominations. this is a viable discussion. what about God's mood. why switch from God of war to god of peace. seems drastic doesn't it.

The trinity is a concept of who God is. It is not possible for you to bandy around the incredulity of this concept while at the same timey baying that God does not exist. Choose one side and stick to it.
Can i ask about your own mood too . . . why do you cry sometimes or laugh some other times? Isnt that a sign of your own MPD?

bawomol:

so u agree the bible is inconsistent?? to be honest, u guys avoid every question by asking for proof while providing none of your know. forget about proof, let's discuss the trinity and the mystical God's mental state

You, on the other hand, are yet to prove outside of the bible that God does not exist and that the theories (speculations) of science are true.

imhotep:

Now, WITHOUT biblical references, show me that God does not exist. Or, that He exists and has MPD.

This is the same thing that has been stated in a similar thread - and boy-o-boy,  I just simply love the way 4get_me thrashed this issue in another thread (here)!

@bawomol
I can feel your dilemma:

1) Your rational mind has not been able to disprove the existence of God.

2) If you accuse God of having MPD, then He must exist.


How can we help bawomol out of the trap he set for himself

imhotep:

How can we help bawomol out of the trap he set for himself

Perhaps when he coherently discusses this:

imhotep:

2) If you accuse God of having MPD, then He must exist.

stimulus, you are completely right. Noticed that pattern of behaviour too; seems they play on the protagonist's mind rather than argue logically.
And the discussion ends in a brawl,,,,original topic forgotten.


logic is backing ur assumptions with proof. logic isn't "the bible says so, then i must believe". the original topic is the nature of this alleged God. how does it God in three persons and why the change in personalities. God of peace to God of war??

We are still waiting for your own proof and answers to the questions that have been offered you guys.

my proof is that u guys have no proof.

Choose one side and stick to it.

no i'm actually criticizing ur side of the argument and displaying it's floors. have u heard of an hypothetical question b4??


why do you cry sometimes or laugh some other times? Isnt that a sign of your own MPD?

no according to psychiatrists, that is called a display of emotion and not a mental disordr. crying or laughing don't lead to a drastic change in personality. why the change from God of peace to God of war. the thread isn't about me but about ur "mystical" god.


ou, on the other hand, are yet to prove outside of the bible that God does not exist and that the theories (speculations) of science are true.

it's the job of u guys to prove to the existence of an abstract concept not me. it was Isaac newton's job to proof the viability of calculus and not vice versa.

Now, WITHOUT biblical references, show me that God does not exist. Or, that He exists and has MPD.

besides holy books, there is no justification or a need for God.

Your rational mind has not been able to disprove the existence of God.

i won't repeat this again. for the last time, an abstract entity imagined my man can not be proved or disproved. may i recommend an intro to philosophy class by the way.

1) besides holy books, there is no justification or a need for God.

2) an abstract entity imagined my man can not be proved or disproved. may i recommend an intro to philosophy class by the way.

Yes, YOU need philosophy 101 classes ASAP.

How can an abstract entity ( imagined by man, which can not be proved or disproved) be accused of having MPD

bawomol:

my proof is that u guys have no proof.

this is tantamount to hiding behind your finger. You claim God does not exist - prove it!

bawomol:

it's the job of u guys to prove to the existence of an abstract concept not me. it was Isaac newton's job to proof the viability of calculus and not vice versa.

Obviously you have never had much experience with science. When you bring up a hypothesis (in this case that God does not exist or has MPD), it behoves you to show us WHY you think so with adequate proof. The onus then lies on us to show you why your proof is right or wrong.

bawomol:

besides holy books, there is no justification or a need for God.

Jesus Christ existed in history outside of the Holy Books. What you call the bible is simply parts of His every words while on earth just the same way we read the works of Shakespeare, Plato e.t.c.
That i dont believe Plato does not mean he never existed.

bawomol:

i won't repeat this again. for the last time, an abstract entity imagined my man can not be proved or disproved. may i recommend an intro to philosophy class by the way.

Therefore you cannot prove that God does not exist.

@bawomol,

bawomol:

logic is backing your assumptions with proof.

True. But not all types of logic adhere to your own idea of "proof" - it all depends on the type of "proof" you're asking for.

bawomol:

logic isn't "the bible says so, then i must believe".

I think we have gone beyond that excuse which has become the classic one for many who reason the way you lead us to believe is your basic premise.

bawomol:

the original topic is the nature of this alleged God. how does it God in three persons and why the change in personalities. God of peace to God of war??

Discussing the nature of any being does not disprove his existence. You (as a real person, not as the hidden "bawomol" also have two opposite reactions: you could be at peace with yourself, or otherwise vexed when you meet with something inimical to your welfare and concerns. But the fact that you may sometimes go through these opposite reactions do not disprove your very existence!

bawomol:

my proof is that u guys have no proof.

Gbosa! And all of a sudden, that is your logic and science! No let me laugh!

bawomol:

no i'm actually criticizing your side of the argument and displaying it's floors. have u heard of an hypothetical question before??

Please enlighten us.

bawomol:

no according to psychiatrists, that is called a display of emotion and not a mental disordr.

A clever way of dribbling behind your tacit "MPD" - but for all that, you're dealing with two opposites! These two opposites do not disprove your existence; rather, they prove your existence and help us relate with you in those clever displays of emotion!

bawomol:

crying or laughing don't lead to a drastic change in personality. why the change from God of peace to God of war. the thread isn't about me but about your "mystical" god.

Peace and/war do not lead to change in personality. To push this idea and make it a personality thing while excusing the very same premise under the psychiatric notion of "display of emotion" does make you sound more mysterious than mystical.

bawomol:

it's the job of u guys to prove to the existence of an abstract concept not me.

Back to "memes"! It's all up to you to crawl out of the facade of an "abstract concept" and demonstrate your own logical "proof" of His non-existence!

bawomol:

it was Isaac newton's job to proof the viability of calculus and not vice versa.

It was up to his students to disprove his premise where they disagreed with his developmental thought on calculus, and not vice versa or hiding under the excuse of trying to deny the premise of calculus.

bawomol:

besides holy books, there is no justification or a need for God.

Not everyone who has a concept of theism and belief in God adheres or resorts to some 'holy writ'; but they would not have to wait to just the narrow thought of some book before they express their theism. Have you ever thought about that?

bawomol:

i won't repeat this again. for the last time, an abstract entity imagined my man can not be proved or disproved.

Which is all the more reason why your psychosis has led to a dead end! If you cannot disprove anything heretofore, do you mind not having to repeat yourself endlessly on the assertion that God does not exist?

bawomol:

may i recommend an intro to philosophy class by the way.

Oh, please flatter me - I just can't wait to dribble you on your own tuff!

imhotep:

Yes, YOU need philosophy 101 classes ASAP.

Ha! Abeg make una leave this guy to interest us with philosophy! I am a starving to take this bob to task on it!

How can an abstract entity ( imagined by man, which can not be proved or disproved) be accused of having MPD

i'm asking a question from ur perspective and not mine. hypothetical questions are regularly used to question the validity of things. what i am asking is an hypothetical question. i find it strange u guys are arguing about sematics rather than explain why God went from God of war to God of peace. change of hearts??

this is tantamount to hiding behind your finger. You claim God does not exist - prove it!

i'm unable to prove something that can't be experienced by mankind.

Jesus Christ existed in history outside of the Holy Books

no it didn't. the holy books are the principle accounts of jesus christ. any idea of God originated from the holy book and not independent sources. plato himself claimed God couldn't be defined.


Therefore you cannot prove that God does not exist.

you are right, the problem is can u prove it exists??

True. But not all types of logic adhere to your own idea of "proof" - it all depends on the type of "proof" you're asking for.

the kind of proof am asking for is the existence of a "God" and how "God" transformed to the God of peace from the God of war.


I think we have gone beyond that excuse which has become the classic one for many who reason the way you lead us to believe is your basic premise.

in what ways have u experienced God.

Discussing the nature of any being does not disprove his existence

at it can, the bohr atomic model can be discussed but that doesn't mean the atomic model is true. anything, real and unreal is open for discussion and analysis.

Gbosa! And all of a sudden, that is your logic and science! No let me laugh!

just logic, my science deals with the big bang theory and evolution. lets stay on topic please.


Peace and/war do not lead to change in personality

it actually does, there is a big difference between a calm person and a violent person. why anyone would deny this is mystifying.


demonstrate your own logical "proof" of His non-existence!

i told u the reason i am unable to do this already. the ball is in ur court to show he/she/it exists.


It was up to his students to disprove his premise where they disagreed with his developmental thought on calculus, and not vice versa or hiding under the excuse of trying to deny the premise of calculus.

actually no, newton sent a detailed explanation to his peers and this was widely accepted. there are only vague descriptions of this "God"

hey would not have to wait to just the narrow thought of some book before they express their theism.

in sociological experiments, kids that weren't exposed to religion, saw no need or having belief in a supreme being. people base their religious beliefs on what they hear and not what they experienced.

do you mind not having to repeat yourself endlessly on the assertion that God does not exist?

my assertion that god does not exist is based on the FACT that no evidence has been found of it's existence. it's not that complex.

Oh, please flatter me - I just can't wait to dribble you on your own tuff!

u haven't done a great job so far

bawomol bawomol bawomol



my kudos to you

bawomol:

How can an abstract entity ( imagined by man, which can not be proved or disproved) be accused of having MPD

i'm asking a question from your perspective and not mine. hypothetical questions are regularly used to question the validity of things. what i am asking is an hypothetical question. i find it strange u guys are arguing about sematics rather than explain why God went from God of war to God of peace. change of hearts??

Trying to use the idea that going from a God of peace to a God of war proves that God does not exist is not only arguing about semantics but making a mockery of your ability to reason logically.
Germany went from a belligerent nation out to eliminate the Jews to a secular sovereign nation . . . does that mean Germany does not exist or has MPD?

bawomol:

this is tantamount to hiding behind your finger. You claim God does not exist - prove it!

i'm unable to prove something that can't be experienced by mankind.

again you make a mockery of logic. That you have not experienced God does not automatically mean others do not/cannot.

bawomol:

Jesus Christ existed in history outside of the Holy Books

no it didn't. the holy books are the principle accounts of jesus christ. any idea of God originated from the holy book and not independent sources. plato himself claimed God couldn't be defined.

That Plato could not define God is not the same thing as saying Plato meant God does not exist. Science cant explain the formation of the earth . . . does it mean it does not exist?
Jesus Christ existed as a historical figure . . . it is an archeological fact.

bawomol:

Therefore you cannot prove that God does not exist.

you are right, the problem is can u prove it exists??

I've never had a problem with God's existence or not. Atheists cannot continue claiming that God does not exist (without valid proof) then hiding behind their fiingers by asking us to prove he exists. The onus is on you.

bawomol:

True. But not all types of logic adhere to your own idea of "proof" - it all depends on the type of "proof" you're asking for.

the kind of proof am asking for is the existence of a "God" and how "God" transformed to the God of peace from the God of war.

Can i ask you for "proof" of how you transform from a happy man to an angry fellow?

bawomol:

Discussing the nature of any being does not disprove his existence

at it can, the bohr atomic model can be discussed but that doesn't mean the atomic model is true. anything, real and unreal is open for discussion and analysis.

does that also mean that since the nature of air can be discussed it does not exist?

bawomol:

i told u the reason i am unable to do this already. the ball is in your court to show he/she/it exists. [b]

Typical atheist twaddle. They come up with a premise and then expect you to do the proving for them. If God does not exist indeed then prove it to us.