I have heard alot of trash from people who parade themselves as strong igbo historians on nairaland about igbo ethnic group being a british amalgamation of different groups of people who are linguistically similar. This assertion is a pure lie and has no concrete proof. Again, i want to tell those people that the word is as old as ndiigbo themselves. The truth still remains that the word "igbo" has existed within almost all the igbo towns across igboland but it's consciousness is only applicable within a community or among neighbouring communities before colonisation. You can now share ur views.

You need a little more research on this topic. There existed no Igbo consciousness within what we call Igbo today and that term "Igbo" was not universally in use. It is highly related to the slavery era and until recently was not the name of a language or ethnic group.

If you observe old write ups, you will notice the use of the term "Ibo country".

Abagworo: You need a little more research on this topic. There existed no Igbo consciousness within what we call Igbo today and that term "Igbo" was not universally in use. It is highly related to the slavery era and until recently was not the name of a language or ethnic group.

If you observe old write ups, you will notice the use of the term "Ibo country".

there was little consciousness then. And they know that their language is igbo,if not names like odenigbo wouldn't have existed then. Again the colonist never created the igbo consciousness/identity/ethnic group, rather they developed it. Alot of names like igboeze, igbodimma,igbodike etc have existed before the colonisation across igboland.

Abagworo: You need a little more research on this topic. There existed no Igbo consciousness within what we call Igbo today and that term "Igbo" was not universally in use. It is highly related to the slavery era and until recently was not the name of a language or ethnic group.

If you observe old write ups, you will notice the use of the term "Ibo country".

abagworo do you know that then in the olden days that igbo towns do see themselves as different towns but the same people. Do you know that different neighbouring and even far communities do trade with each other. They know that they share many things in common with little differences. The reason why the term "igbo" was not widely used then was because they out of ignorance don't see need for a collective name. They are contented with being agulu, alor, abatete, nnobi, nkwelle-inyi,oratta etc even though they know that within them they have many similarities and little differences. Finally, the reason why the igbo consciousness is high now is due to the amalgamation of different ethnicities into one body "nigeria". People became conscious of each other because there is much differences between those amalgamated groups. So every one tries to identify with a particular group unlike in the old when it was trade between only igbo communities.

Antivirus92: abagworo do you know that then in the olden days that igbo towns do see themselves as different towns but the same people. Do you know that different neighbouring and even far communities do trade with each other. They know that they share many things in common with little differences. The reason why the term "igbo" is not widely used then is because they out of ignorance don't see need for a collective name. They are contented with being agulu, alor, abatete, nnobi, nkwelle-inyi,oratta etc even though they know that within them they have many similarities and little differences. Finally, the reason why the igbo consciousness is high now is due to the amalgamation of different ethnicities into one body "nigeria". People became conscious of each other because there is much differences between those amalgamated groups. So every one tries to identify with a particular group unlike in the old when it was trade between only igbo communities.

You write from your understanding of events as a North-central Igboman. It is not in doubt that we are all related but the extent remains unknown. Igbo was not a conquering or war-like group and have high tendency of adopting or copying foreign culture and language which they find interesting. However the problem is that we cannot pinpoint the missing link.

Abagworo:

You write from your understanding of events as a North-central Igboman. It is not in doubt that we are all related but the extent remains unknown. Igbo was not a conquering or war-like group and have high tendency of adopting or copying foreign culture and language which they find interesting. However the problem is that we cannot pinpoint the missing link.

please i want u to explain more on the being a north central igboman. How do we over here understand things? Do other parts like u people in the south understand things different from how we do here? Is understanding also regional?

If someone travelled to Agukwu Nri in the year 1700 and asked an indigene what language he spoke, what would the reply be?

Igbo existed before colonial period, for millenia. The End.

PAGAN 9JA:
Igbo existed before colonial period, for millenia. The End.

Igbo speaking peoples have existed for several millenia but the issue here is if they knew their various languages as Igbo or called themselves Igbos. Today when someone speaks Oratta language, people will call it Owerri dialect. As at 1800 they knew their group as Oratta and language as Oratta. Today some indigenes of Oratta don't even know it was ever like that.

@antivirus. I know you are curious like myself about Igbo history. Read this book which gives a true and slightly detailed account of Igbos as written by a missionary in pre-colonial times. Very educative.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=tdxg8YflR6oC&pg=PA173&lpg=PA175&ots=QFVmGdY9lY&dq=sierra+leone+isuama&output=html_text

I will always refuse to look at this issue from the eyes of the white man.
Igbo as a group has always existed from time "immemorial". Whether any of these by-force pseudo-Intellectuals like it or not.
Fact is, it is impossible for the consciousness not to have been there.
For crying out loud, we are talking about human beings here not stones or logs of wood.
Then some less busy guy comes along to make such assertion. Ofcourse, the context or nature of the igbo consciousness then would be different given the type of government existent in igboland. There was independence and autonomy.
You don't expect that same nature of consciousness to exist upon the arrival of the white man and the lumping of different nations into one.

kwangi: I will always refuse to look at this issue from the eyes of the white man.
Igbo as a group has always existed from time "immemorial". Whether any of these by-force pseudo-Intellectuals like it or not.
Fact is, it is impossible for the consciousness not to have been there.
For crying out loud, we are talking about human beings here not stones or logs of wood.
Then some less busy guy comes along to make such assertion. Ofcourse, the context or nature of the igbo consciousness then would be different given the type of government existent in igboland. There was independence and autonomy.
You don't expect that same nature of consciousness to exist upon the arrival of the white man and the lumping of different nations into one.

brother, you really answered well. I have been saying it that igbo is a distinct group who spread from one point to all over south-east and part of south-south. Yes migrations occur but it is not enough to change igbo history and for the sake of survival,the migrants(foreigners) have to adopt the igbo culture,tradition,language etc. In summary, igbo tribe/ethnic group has existed before migrations occured.

odumchi: If someone travelled to Agukwu Nri in the year 1700 and asked an indigene what language he spoke, what would the reply be?

but i have read and heard about the first igbo group that the europeans met on their arrival in igboland. They told the whites that they speak igbo language. Btw odumchi, what do u think the answer to ur question should be? Are you insunuating that the europeans founded the word "igbo"?

odumchi: If someone travelled to Agukwu Nri in the year 1700 and asked an indigene what language he spoke, what would the reply be?

Dude, get real abeg!

Abagworo: @antivirus. I know you are curious like myself about Igbo history. Read this book which gives a true and slightly detailed account of Igbos as written by a missionary in pre-colonial times. Very educative.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=tdxg8YflR6oC&pg=PA173&lpg=PA175&ots=QFVmGdY9lY&dq=sierra+leone+isuama&output=html_text

guy it's now that i know why you get more confuse and confuse. Guy ,for goodness sake,discard all these fabricated,baseless histories that you always post here. Please you have brain,make use of ur senses in judging some things.

Me thinks this is a non issue.
Some of the assertions made here are not even worth replying.
The situation of different dialects can be found in every language, but you don't see for example the Yoruba peeps coming here to spew such shameful lies.
There was no Igbo consciousness prior to European arrival?
That's not even possible. It is an impossibility.
What do the people who propagate this idea seek to achieve or prove
I've read a lot of ridiculous theories on nairaland about this same topic.

Antivirus92: guy it's now that i know why you get more confuse and confuse. Guy ,for goodness sake,discard all these fabricated,baseless histories that you always post here. Please you have brain,make use of ur senses in judging some things.

Bro, the thing dey tire me. I swear.
I don't need to read any crappy article to know what my reasoning and common sense can tell me.
I go just carry myself go dash somebody make e brainwash me free of charge.

Apart from the igbo ethnic group, i want please abagworo,chinenye,odumchi to tell us here another ethnicity or tribe in this globe who doesn't have a progenator or who are just migrations of different people. Please be fast!

Antivirus92: but i have read and heard about the first igbo group that the europeans met on their arrival in igboland. They told the whites that they speak igbo language. Btw odumchi, what do u think the answer to ur question should be? Are you insunuating that the europeans founded the word "igbo"?

I'll answer your question with this:

"Igbo" was never the name of any group of people. "Igbo" was in actuality the categorical name given to the collection of very similar languages spoken by the different peoples who occupy the stretch of land west of the Edo, east of the Ibibio, south of the Igala and Idoma, and north of the Ijo peoples. What people sometimes fail to understand is that the original understanding of the word "Igbo" differs from that which we have today.

Like I've stated many times already, it was a language cluster. For this reason, if you were to journey to Onicha (or any other town, for that matter) in the year 1700 and ask a native what people he was from, he would tell you "Onicha" and not "Igbo" because the term "Igbo" only applied when discussing its members as a whole. If you were to ask him the origin of his town [Onicha], he would say "Ezechima" and point westward. If you were to ask him who his people's neighbors were, he would just describe them indescriminately by saying "Fa bu ndi Igbo" (meaning: they are Igbo-speaking peoples). But about his own people, he would say "Mana anyi aburo Igbo, anyi bu Onicha" (meaning: However, we are not a random bunch of Igbo-speaking peoples, we are Onicha). If you were to ask him what language he spoke, he would most-likely say "Anyi na-asu okwu Onicha" (meaning: we speak the language of the Onicha people). Like, Abagworo pointed out, this phenomenon is also found among other groups. If you had asked that question in Aro, the reply would've been "okwu Aro"; in Ngwa "Ngwa"; in Owere, Ngor Okpala, and their vicinities, "Urata".

That is why the true meaning of the phrase "Abu m onye Igbo" is "I am a member of one of the Igbo-speaking peoples who occupy th territory west of the Edo, east of the Ibibio, south of the Igala and Idoma, and north of the Ijo".

In today's world, the definition of "Igbo" has somewhat changed. Due to the forces of natural evolution and change (that is, if the forceful and abrupt
intervention of the Europeans can actually be considered 'natural'), the Igbo have gone from being a categorization of similar and related peoples who speak similar languages to being an ethnic group, equipped with a standard language, on its way to nationhood.

Antivirus92: Are you insunuating that the europeans founded the word "igbo"?

I did not in any way imply this. In fact, I believe the exact opposite: the term "Igbo" has always been in existence and in use. However, the understanding of it that we have today was prompted by the Europeans.

kwangi: Dude, get real abeg!

I saala nu m ajuju m juru?

Antivirus92: Apart from the igbo ethnic group, i want please abagworo,chinenye,odumchi to tell us here another ethnicity or tribe in this globe who doesn't have a progenator or who are just migrations of different people. Please be fast!

No ethnic group has been proven to have a progenitor. Most stories tell of people or someone coming to an area with other people. For example Bayajidda of Hausa met people in Daura.

As per the ethnic consciousness, it never existed in Igboland. Maybe when you talk about Isuama or Ngwa or Ndoki, they all had their consciousness as their relative tribes. For example the Ezilihite people until this day believe that all mankind originated from Ihu Chileke in Oboama l'Umunama, Nri people have their own. Oguta people believe they came from ancient Benin. Do you think the Whiteman created these differences?

All this beating about the bush doesn't say anything.
Every family in the world can go about saying the exact same thing y'all been saying.
Like I said this is a non issue.
Given enough time, I can break igbo people into one million tribes or whatever tag you guys may choose to come up with. Same applies to every tribe in Nigeria, that is if some of them get so bored as to engage endeavors like this.

odumchi:

I'll answer your question with this:

"Igbo" was never the name of any group of people. "Igbo" was in actuality the categorical name given to the collection of very similar languages spoken by the different peoples who occupy the stretch of land west of the Edo, east of the Ibibio, south of the Igala and Idoma, and north of the Ijo peoples. What people sometimes fail to understand is that the original understanding of the word "Igbo" differs from that which we have today.

Like I've stated many times already, it was a language cluster. For this reason, if you were to journey to Onicha (or any other town, for that matter) in the year 1700 and ask a native what people he was from, he would tell you "Onicha" and not "Igbo" because the term "Igbo" only applied when discussing its members as a whole. If you were to ask him the origin of his town [Onicha], he would say "Ezechima" and point westward. If you were to ask him who his people's neighbors were, he would just describe them indescriminately by saying "Fa bu ndi Igbo" (meaning: they are Igbo-speaking peoples). But about his own people, he would say "Mana anyi aburo Igbo, anyi bu Onicha" (meaning: However, we are not a random bunch of Igbo-speaking peoples, we are Onicha). If you were to ask him what language he spoke, he would most-likely say "Anyi na-asu okwu Onicha" (meaning: we speak the language of the Onicha people). Like, Abagworo pointed out, this phenomenon is also found among other groups. If you had asked that question in Aro, the reply would've been "okwu Aro"; in Ngwa "Ngwa"; in Owere, Ngor Okpala, and their vicinities, "Urata".

That is why the true meaning of the phrase "Abu m onye Igbo" is "I am a member of one of the Igbo-speaking peoples who occupy th territory west of the Edo, east of the Ibibio, south of the Igala and Idoma, and north of the Ijo".

In today's world, the definition of "Igbo" has somewhat changed. Due to the forces of natural evolution and change (that is, if the forceful and abrupt
intervention of the Europeans can actually be considered 'natural'), the Igbo have gone from being a categorization of similar and related peoples who speak similar languages to being an ethnic group, equipped with a standard language, on its way to nationhood.



I did not in any way imply this. In fact, I believe the exact opposite: the term "Igbo" has always been in existence and in use. However, the understanding of it that we have today was prompted by the Europeans.



I saala nu m ajuju m juru?

odumchi you answered well but let me ask you, is birmingham,scouse,yorkchire accents the same english language or is it collection of similar languages? Ok, tell me what made the so different people to have a similar language,is it trade,slavery,inter-marriage? Please answer me urgently

Antivirus92: odumchi you answered well but let me ask you, is birmingham,scouse,yorkchire accents the same english language or is it collection of similar languages? Ok, tell me what made the so different people to have a similar language,is it trade,slavery,inter-marriage? Please answer me urgently

Is your great-grandfather still alive? I happen to be from a family where people have very long lifespan. I'm almost 30 years old but my great-grandfather died in 1998 while both my grandparents are still alive now. My father is 60 years old. The easiest way to gain real traditional knowledge is from your aged great-grandparents that were born around 1930. Why I believe that book I showed you is because it correlates almost entirely with my grandfather's explanations.

@odumchi and abagworo, your contineous use of "different people with similar language" sometimes makes me look at u both somehow. Nature has made it clear that different people have different language and similar/the same people have the same language. In the middle east, arabs and jews share similar history(they are related) but have different languages,italy,spain,portugal traded heavily with each other and are neighbours for centuries but still have different languages, serbia and montenegro once one country still have different languages. In the case of igbo, no trade,no inter-marriage,little slave trade,yet the same language and culture. Guy forget what people may claim, in the face of no concrete history, it is natural for people to claim what they think suits them.

Abagworo:

Is your great-grandfather still alive? I happen to be from a family where people have very long lifespan. I'm almost 30 years old but my great-grandfather died in 1998 while both my grandparents are still alive now. My father is 60 years old. The easiest way to gain real traditional knowledge is from your aged great-grandparents that were born around 1930. Why I believe that book I showed you is because it correlates almost entirely with my grandfather's explanations.

my great grand father in the year 2003 at hundred and ....yes,grand parents do help but they knowledge is limited as they are only human and they brain can't contain every thing. They can give family history but igbo history, no, they can only give u a the little they know.

Antivirus92: my great grand father in the year 2003 at hundred and ....yes,grand parents do help but they knowledge is limited as they are only human and they brain can't contain every thing. They can give family history but igbo history, no, they can only give u a the little they know.

Walahi, you get energy! This guys are gonna turn a blind eye to any sense you are making...
Me I can't indulge any of these guys in argument over this topic because that will give room for more nonsense.

Antivirus92: @odumchi and abagworo, your contineous use of "different people with similar language" sometimes makes me look at u both somehow. Nature has made it clear that different people have different language and similar/the same people have the same language. In the middle east, arabs and jews share similar history(they are related) but have different languages,italy,spain,portugal traded heavily with each other and are neighbours for centuries but still have different languages, serbia and montenegro once one country still have different languages. In the case of igbo, no trade,no inter-marriage,little slave trade,yet the same language and culture. Guy forget what people may claim, in the face of no concrete history, it is natural for people to claim what they think suits them.

I think you seem to misunderstand me(us). I never said we are different people because there is lack of credible evidence to substantiate whether we are or not. I however believe we are same people that have emerged over time from cultural and lingual evolution. The issue here is that nobody called himself Igbo prior to coming of slavery and Europeans. Many Igbos never knew others existed that spoke same language as them even till this day. I was once in a bus from Onitsha to Port-Harcourt and we stopped at Elele to buy fuel. I was with one girl coming to Ph for the 1st time and when we went to buy coke at a kiosk, two people spoke Ikwerre to themselves and the girl was shocked and exclaimed Chinekeme! Ima na nde na-asu Igbo. Ma na ife fa na-asu yili Owerri. I told her that it is the Elele dialect of Ikwerre and not regarded as Igbo by the natives.

It gives an idea on how Igbo nationhood was likely conceived in diaspora when people discovered they spoke similar tongues on board a ship. There was little or no record of any slave writing his ethnicity as Igbo. The largest single ethnic block that was identified was "Isuama".

Antivirus92: abagworo do you know that then in the olden days that igbo towns do see themselves as different towns but the same people. Do you know that different neighbouring and even far communities do trade with each other. They know that they share many things in common with little differences. The reason why the term "igbo" was not widely used then was because they out of ignorance don't see need for a collective name. They are contented with being agulu, alor, abatete, nnobi, nkwelle-inyi,oratta etc even though they know that within them they have many similarities and little differences. Finally, the reason why the igbo consciousness is high now is due to the amalgamation of different ethnicities into one body "nigeria". People became conscious of each other because there is much differences between those amalgamated groups. So every one tries to identify with a particular group unlike in the old when it was trade between only igbo communities.

I think to some extent you've answered your own question.

Igbos have been trading with each other and they've always known they have something in common but never really saw themselves as one and the same people per say. It was when the colonialist came and kind of lumped everyone together that that nationhood now became prominent.

afam4eva:
I think to some extent you've answered your own question.

Igbos have been trading with each other and they've always known they have something in common but never really saw themselves as one and the same people per say. It was when the colonialist came and kind of lumped everyone together that that nationhood now became prominent.

yes, afam, don't you know that if women were not created,men will always see themselves as seperate/different gender. The existence of women makes men to see the similarity and oneness among them. When igbos were trading with igbos,they thought that they were different because they haven't seen urhobo,ijaw,tiv etc in those olden days.

kwangi: Walahi, you get energy! This guys are gonna turn a blind eye to any sense you are making...
Me I can't indulge any of these guys in argument over this topic because that will give room for more nonsense.

nwannem, aga eji mgbagbu ghalu ogu? Agana-ekwu,onye nwelu nti nuru,onye achoro inu hapu. A word is enough for the wise.

Antivirus92: yes, afam, don't you know that if women were not created,men will always see themselves as seperate/different gender. The existence of women makes men to see the similarity and oneness among them. When igbos were trading with igbos,they thought that they were different because they haven't seen urhobo,ijaw,tiv etc in those olden days.

You've also answered another question of yours. People in Oguta traded with Igalas, Edos and Ijaws as well as other Igbos. Till date there is a place known as Kalabari beach in Oguta. Same with people in Ngwa and Ndoki that traded with Ijaws,Annangs and Efiks. However the differences in nationhood still existed.

Abagworo:

You've also answered another question of yours. People in Oguta traded with Igalas, Edos and Ijaws as well as other Igbos. Till date there is a place known as Kalabari beach in Oguta. Same with people in Ngwa and Ndoki that traded with Ijaws,Annangs and Efiks. However the differences in nationhood still existed.

which differences in nationhood. Were you there when the trading is going on? One thing i am sure of is that ngwa & oguta people in those days will not taking the annangs,edo,igala,ijaw etc the same they may be taking aro, owerre etc, they must surely know that they share some common things with those people unlike efik,annang,edo and the rest.